---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/18/04: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:39 AM - Garmin series 400 installation manual ? (Thesee Gilles) 2. 06:05 AM - Re: Garmin series 400 installation manual ? (Tailgummer@aol.com) 3. 12:44 PM - Microair760 Radio and PM501 Intercom (Steve Sampson) 4. 12:44 PM - PTT wiring (Steve Sampson) 5. 01:43 PM - Re: Starting Power (Mickey Coggins) 6. 05:29 PM - Knock Sensor Frequency-Mazda Rotary (Dale Alexander) 7. 06:04 PM - CH products stick grip (Wayne Williams) 8. 07:14 PM - Re: Knock Sensor Frequency-Mazda Rotary (John D. Heath) 9. 07:37 PM - Re: Starting Power (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 07:41 PM - Re: Microair760 Radio and PM501 Intercom (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 07:48 PM - Re: Where do I start? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 07:57 PM - Re: Starting Power (George Braly) 13. 09:42 PM - Re: KA-135 issue (James Redmon) 14. 11:39 PM - Starter for Sale (Jeff Point) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:08 AM PST US From: Thesee Gilles Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin series 400 installation manual ? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Thesee Gilles Hi all, Any kind soul around here got the Garmin series 400 installation manual and is willing to send it to me ? Two years ago I was able to find it hidden on the Garmin website and so I could install a GPS 400 in our four seater. But I mismanaged my hard disk and lost nearly all my data... Thanks in advance, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:44 AM PST US From: Tailgummer@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Garmin series 400 installation manual ? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tailgummer@aol.com Here are pdfs of the GNS 430 wirebook and install manual. Hope this helps. John D'Onofrio RV8 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:44:47 PM PST US From: "Steve Sampson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Microair760 Radio and PM501 Intercom --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" Can anyone point me to a wiring diagram showing how to wire up these two units as one system? Thanks, Steve. --- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:44:47 PM PST US From: "Steve Sampson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: PTT wiring --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" Bob in most microphone wiring documentation including: .....................\Aeroelectric\AeroElectric Connection - Aircraft Microphone Jack Wiring.htm the PTT is wired to the microphone jack plug. In my layout I would much prefer the PTT was wired directly to the radio. Is there any disadvantage in this approach? Thanks, Steve. --- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:43:55 PM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Starting Power --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > ... . . . maybe I should quit beating up on > Greg and a few others. Once any standards of excellence start > to slide and the consumer base accepts it, perhaps it doesn't > matter any more. Good troll. OK, I'll bite. DO-160 seems to be something that very few vendors actually use in their marketing, so the average avionics consumer does not know much about it. This is a shame, and forces us all to try to beat this information out of the vendor. Which reminds me, I wanted to ask Blue Mountain Avionics if they conform to the recommendation. Is there a list of companies that have committed to ensuring that their products meet this "standard"? Thanks, Mickey -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:36 PM PST US From: "Dale Alexander" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Knock Sensor Frequency-Mazda Rotary 0.7 RCVD_BY_IP Received by mail server with no name --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dale Alexander" I just checked the RX-8 repair manual. The only mention was for minimum voltage that the PCM needs to see, 1.2 volts and the resistance value, 120-280K ohms. Other than that, no additional info is given. I have never seen frequency info in a Mazda manual for any of their products. That being said, it really wouldn't be too much trouble to go out and measure the frequency with DSO (digital storing oscilliscope). Just try and find the knock sensor in an application that uses the engine that you have. Dale Alexander Velocity 173 Stealth Gullwing > > > Time: 09:03:24 AM PST US > From: Mark Steitle 08/15/04 > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 17 Msgs - > 08/15/04 > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Steitle > 08/15/04 > > Dale, > Would you happen to know the frequency for the Mazda rotary engine? > > Mark S. > > > What we (and several manufactures) look for is > >not only a voltage to reach a certain value, but a certain frequency as > >well. Toyota for example lists resonant frequencies of 7,000, 7,100 and > >7,600 Hz depending on which engine is being monitored. > >Dale Alexander > >Velocity 173 Stealth Gullwing > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:21 PM PST US From: "Wayne Williams" Subject: AeroElectric-List: CH products stick grip --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Williams" I just got a CH Products stick grip. Its got a good feel and is ambidextrous. It has 4 momentary switches and a coolie hat. I was surprised to see "Permissible Load: 1mA 5VDC min, (resistive load). Is this enough to allow a direct connection to my MAC servo relays and radio PTT? If not, what would I need to do to connect these relays? Thanks! Wayne ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:27 PM PST US From: "John D. Heath" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Knock Sensor Frequency-Mazda Rotary --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" I don't see how a Wankle could knock. If it can A Mazda dealer is sure to have a knock sensor for it. John D. > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dale Alexander" > Dalexan48@dslextreme.com >> >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Steitle >> ====================================================== DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:03 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Starting Power --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 10:43 PM 8/18/2004 +0200, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > > > > ... . . . maybe I should quit beating up on > > Greg and a few others. Once any standards of excellence start > > to slide and the consumer base accepts it, perhaps it doesn't > > matter any more. > >Good troll. OK, I'll bite. DO-160 seems to be something >that very few vendors actually use in their marketing, >so the average avionics consumer does not know much about it. >This is a shame, and forces us all to try to beat this >information out of the vendor. Which reminds me, I wanted >to ask Blue Mountain Avionics if they conform to the >recommendation. It's not something the consumer should have to be aware of . . . it's pretty rudimentary stuff. It's sorta like asking your surgeon if he/she knows how to tie sutures and knows the difference between a vein and a tendon. Folks who launch into mission critical systems design, fabrication and marketing really need to be aware of the environment in which their product is expected to perform. When folks put "stuff" in gasoline to make it perform better in one regard, they would do well to understand the potential for unintended consequences for other components of the system. This is called "systems integration". It's just as important to make the gee-whiz work seamlessly with all the surrounding systems as it is to make it wash and dry dishes. >Is there a list of companies that have committed to ensuring >that their products meet this "standard"? Companies that deliver to the certified world are FORCED to conform by the FAA . . . except for the occasional ringer like Lasar Ignitions and Aerosance FADECs. I'm still scratching my head over those two. It's not like it's a big secret either. Pick up the installation manual for any certified product and there will be a DO-160 compliance chart somewhere in the book that describes how the product was tested and qualified. I don't formally test OBAM aviation products to DO-160 but I've had enough experience designing products that ARE tested, I can offer new gizmos to customers with my own personal confidence that they would pass certain tests if I took the product to the test lab. I haven't failed a qual test in 25 years . . . it's pretty easy to design for compliance. I received an e-mail from the Emag folks offering to share some details of their product's design and capabilities. I'll take them up on the offer with a pot full of questions. If there are some answers that might be improved upon, I'll point them out and offer to help upgrade the product. This is the true beauty with the OBAM aviation community. Things get better and better because we're free to just do it. Contrast this with certified aviation where things get worse and worse because we're not allowed to fix things except at great time and expense. But in answer to your question, it never hurts to ask the supplier if they're aware of DO-160 and if they've taken advantage of any recommendations it contains. The fact that they know what's in it and are prepared to tell you what they comply with and what they let go . . . along with a considered rational for their decision says a lot about their understanding of the market. Not complying with DO-160 for a marketable reason is just fine with me. Not complying because they haven't a clue is the worrisome part. That's when the surgeon's knot comes loose after he tied a tendon to a vein . . . oh well, what the heck. Those two things didn't belong together anyhow. Bob . . . --- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:15 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Microair760 Radio and PM501 Intercom --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:46 PM 8/18/2004 +0100, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" > > >Can anyone point me to a wiring diagram showing how to wire up these two >units as one system? Thanks, Steve. The instruction manual for our audio isolation amplifier has some exemplar audio wiring diagrams. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9009/9009-700E.pdf Bob . . . --- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:14 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Where do I start? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 09:50 PM 8/16/2004 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "jrstone" > >Hey Bob Nuckolls, >I just downloaded you cd and the file with the cad programs in it didn't >include the one you like, auto cad lt. Can you tell me where you have that >program saved? It wasn't in the auto cad drawing file either. >Thanks, >Jim It's in the directory called CAD_Programs and sub-directory called AcadLT1_0 The file you're looking for in that directory is called "makeset.bat" as described below: Bob . . . >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >To: >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Where do I start? > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > > > > > > > Bob, > > > Reading your book and other scamatics I suppose should be easy, but > > > without an appendix, and index in picture form what all these symbles > > > represent, I am spending (wasting) a lot of time. Help me out here will > > > you, please? Where can I go for help here? A special book? Tell me, I'll > > > buy it! > > > > Other than Tony B's books, I'm unaware of any 'cook-book' approaches > > to system architecture and fabrication. The 'Connection is the >recommended > > starting point. The drawing "seminar.dwg" found on the CD cited below > > has a lot of your wiring diagram already drawn . . . ready for you to > > keep, modify, discard or add to as you see fit. > > > > > Can you recommend a cheap software for me to use to create my own > > > electrical system documentation? One which might have all these symbles >I > > > could just drop in? I don't want to spend a fortune on some 3D Cad > > > system, please. > > > > The CD we offer contains an image of my website before the parts > > business was transferred to B&C several years ago. Most of the parts > > in the drawings are illustrated in figures and descriptions of the >parts > > catalog. > > > > The CD also has three CAD programs that will open, edit and print > > drawings included on the CD. There's a wirebook in progress that > > probably has 90% of the work for your wirebook already done. Feel > > free to use these materials in any way useful to you. My personal > > preference of the three CAD programs > > is AutoCAD LT 1.0 for windows. You need 4 clean floppies. Execute > > "makeset.bat" > > from the CD and the program will generate 4 pristine install disks for > > the software. The price is hard to beat . . . if you have a high > > speed Internet connection, you can download the CD at no charge from: > > > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/CD/AEC8_0.zip > > > > I think you're suffering a malady common to first time builders. > > It's a sort of can't see the "trees for the forest" syndrome. > > Looking at the whole task makes it difficult to sort out the > > dozens of simple-ideas that get stacked up like Tinker-Toys > > and Legos to configure the system of your dreams. The starting > > point must be to acquire an understanding of the Tinker-Toys. > > > > I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List > > to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to > > share the information with as many folks as possible. > > A further benefit can be realized with membership on > > the list. There are lots of technically capable folks > > on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can > > join at . . . > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/ > > > > In the final analysis, if you don't find any of our offerings > > to be of value to you, just let me know. I'll refund your money > > and you can keep the book. > > > > Regards, > > > > Bob . . . > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > ( Knowing about a thing is different than ) > > ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) > > ( and still understand nothing. ) > > ( C.F. Kettering ) > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > > > >--- >Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004 Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------------- < Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition > < of man. Advances which permit this norm to be > < exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the > < work of an extremely small minority, frequently > < despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed > < by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny > < minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes > < happens) is driven out of a society, the people > < then slip back into abject poverty. > < > < This is known as "bad luck". > < -Lazarus Long- > <------------------------------------------------------> http://www.aeroelectric.com --- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:46 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Starting Power From: "George Braly" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "George Braly" Bob, I have the DO-160 compliance chart for the TCM FADEC. From memory, it appears to me to cover most of the bases. It is in the 2" thick installation manual. I have not looked at it for a while, but I don't recall seeing the call out for the minimal operating voltage... but I will look again, and report back. But... it is true. The installation in the Bonanza requires a second battery located under the rear seat to insure starting on cold days with difficult starting conditions. Total system weight is > 35 lbs. Regards, George -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Starting Power --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 10:43 PM 8/18/2004 +0200, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > > > > ... . . . maybe I should quit beating up on > > Greg and a few others. Once any standards of excellence start > > to slide and the consumer base accepts it, perhaps it doesn't > > matter any more. > >Good troll. OK, I'll bite. DO-160 seems to be something >that very few vendors actually use in their marketing, >so the average avionics consumer does not know much about it. >This is a shame, and forces us all to try to beat this >information out of the vendor. Which reminds me, I wanted >to ask Blue Mountain Avionics if they conform to the >recommendation. It's not something the consumer should have to be aware of . . . it's pretty rudimentary stuff. It's sorta like asking your surgeon if he/she knows how to tie sutures and knows the difference between a vein and a tendon. Folks who launch into mission critical systems design, fabrication and marketing really need to be aware of the environment in which their product is expected to perform. When folks put "stuff" in gasoline to make it perform better in one regard, they would do well to understand the potential for unintended consequences for other components of the system. This is called "systems integration". It's just as important to make the gee-whiz work seamlessly with all the surrounding systems as it is to make it wash and dry dishes. >Is there a list of companies that have committed to ensuring >that their products meet this "standard"? Companies that deliver to the certified world are FORCED to conform by the FAA . . . except for the occasional ringer like Lasar Ignitions and Aerosance FADECs. I'm still scratching my head over those two. It's not like it's a big secret either. Pick up the installation manual for any certified product and there will be a DO-160 compliance chart somewhere in the book that describes how the product was tested and qualified. I don't formally test OBAM aviation products to DO-160 but I've had enough experience designing products that ARE tested, I can offer new gizmos to customers with my own personal confidence that they would pass certain tests if I took the product to the test lab. I haven't failed a qual test in 25 years . . . it's pretty easy to design for compliance. I received an e-mail from the Emag folks offering to share some details of their product's design and capabilities. I'll take them up on the offer with a pot full of questions. If there are some answers that might be improved upon, I'll point them out and offer to help upgrade the product. This is the true beauty with the OBAM aviation community. Things get better and better because we're free to just do it. Contrast this with certified aviation where things get worse and worse because we're not allowed to fix things except at great time and expense. But in answer to your question, it never hurts to ask the supplier if they're aware of DO-160 and if they've taken advantage of any recommendations it contains. The fact that they know what's in it and are prepared to tell you what they comply with and what they let go . . . along with a considered rational for their decision says a lot about their understanding of the market. Not complying with DO-160 for a marketable reason is just fine with me. Not complying because they haven't a clue is the worrisome part. That's when the surgeon's knot comes loose after he tied a tendon to a vein . . . oh well, what the heck. Those two things didn't belong together anyhow. Bob . . . --- --- --- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:39 PM PST US From: "James Redmon" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KA-135 issue --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" I have a major correction to make on my post. It is NOT the King audio panel, it is the Microair 760 radio - at least caused by it. Several folks were on to something about the second com. I thought for sure I had tested the problem with the radio off...but I guess I had not. I disconnected com2 and the problem went away. I re-connected it (with the power off) and the problem was still gone. I turned on Com2....poof, I had com 2 audio, but reduced aux audio. Com1 was unaffected by all modes, with or without aux audio. The issues is isolated with com2's audio. Any ideas how I can test this out and equalize the audio? I seem to remember folks having problems with the Microair radio mixing with other audio sources. Thanks for the help! James Redmon Berkut #013 N97TX http://www.berkut13.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Redmon" Subject: AeroElectric-List: KA-135 issue > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" > > I know this forum is more about routing elections, but I thought I might > ping the collective with another avionics question. (please recommend other > sources if applicable) > > I've found another small anomaly in my system - specifically the KA-135 > audio panel...I think. I have two com radios, the KA-135 has the two > mic/radio select buttons and several inputs for aux audio (NAV1, NAV2, > Marker, DME, etc.) - standard stuff, right. > > I have the audio from the engine computer (audio alerts) piped into the > KA-135 on one of the 5 aux audio lines. With com1 mic switch pushed, all is > fine...everything loud and clear. Problem: when com2 switch is activated, I > can hear com2 audio just fine but ALL other audio inputs seem to have been > muted considerably. I can still hear them but they ALL are significantly > lower in volume. This also happens to all aux audio when the "both" button > is pressed as well. The result - when I'm monitoring com2, I can barely > hear the audio warnings....not good! > > I have checked side tone adjustments on the both coms..no effect. The only > volume adjustment that the KA unit has is for the external speaker...it is > unaffected by the mic select button positions. > > You can get a look at my panel here: http://www.berkut13.com/berkut22.htm > > Can any of you KA-135 users out there verify that this is normal? Is there > any way to adjust or change this operation mode? There is noting the manual > that describes this behavior. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:42 PM PST US From: Jeff Point Aeroelectric List Subject: AeroElectric-List: Starter for Sale --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jeff Point I'm selling an extra starter on Ebay if anyone is interested. This is the Sky-tec High Torque model, 12V, 149 tooth. It's not the el-cheapo "flyweight" model, but the better one using a wound field motor, which is the better choice if using the smaller (17AH RG) batteries which have become popular (I use one too.) Zero time since factory overhaul. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2487542503 Forgive the commercialism, and do not archive. Jeff Point RV-6 Milwaukee WI