Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:13 AM - Re: Re: incident with fuse holder (Werner Schneider)
2. 12:13 AM - Re: Garmin series 400 installation manual ? (Thesee Gilles)
3. 02:10 AM - Re: Re: Architecture for 2 batteries and 1 (Mickey Coggins)
4. 06:58 AM - copper clad aluminum wire (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 08:24 AM - Starting Problem ()
6. 09:05 AM - Re: Re: incident with fuse holder (Jaye and Scott Jackson)
7. 09:48 AM - Re: Re: Weight of RG-142 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 10:05 AM - DC-DC converter (Ken Rice)
9. 05:58 PM - Dual VOR/GS Comant Splitter... (Malcolm Thomson)
10. 07:23 PM - Re: DC-DC converter (Eric M. Jones)
11. 07:41 PM - Re: Re: Architecture for 2 batteries and 1 alternator (glaesers)
12. 07:57 PM - strobe control box mount (Margaret and Truman Sager)
13. 08:12 PM - Re: strobe control box mount (DonVS)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: incident with fuse holder |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
Hello Bob,
thanks a lot for the fast response
> >It looks like part of the fuseholder was also melted (black spots on teh
> >fuse, would you recommend to replace the whole holder?
>
> Yes. I've been aware of one other incident like this. In the other case,
> the grip tension of the fuse clip was getting damaged by occasional
> contact with passenger's foot while ingressing/egressing the airplane.
> Your situation may be different but I think the potential root cause
> is still the same.
>
Hm, I do undesrtand, as mechanical damage can get loose contacts, however,
my fuseholders are all built in behind the panel on top of the glove box and
can not be touched without lowering the panel first or open the glareshield
and this fuse was in the 67 hrs my plane has meanhwile just once removed. It
will be intersting to see if you can find out anything, I did remove the
fuse with a pair of plyers, but as soon as I can replace the block I will
send you the two parts!
Werner
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin series 400 installation manual ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Thesee Gilles <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
---- Messages dorigine ----
De: Harley <harley@AgelessWings.com>
Objet: Re: AeroElectric-List: Garmin series 400 installation manual ?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley
> <harley@agelesswings.com>
> If you can send me the file, John, I can put it on my website for
> Gilles
> and he can download it from there when he gets a chance.
>
> Harley Dixon
>
> www.agelesswings.com
Hi Harley and all,
Thanks a lot for your help !
Best regards,
Gilles
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Architecture for 2 batteries and 1 |
alternator
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
alternator
Hi Dennis,
I agree completely. I'm not planning on using the
4PDT switches. Here's where I am with the fuel pumps:
http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040725003830181
For the ECM, I've got this:
http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040406145425120
I'm not going to have any more single points of failure
in my system than possible, and I plan to evaluate and
understand the remaining SPOFs as carefully as I can.
Mickey
>The Eggenfeller Subaru Engine electrical architecture, described in their
>on-line installation manual, has a single 4PDT switch which is used for the
>engine Master Bus Switch - powers pumps and ignition from either the Main or
>Aux battery It also has a single 4PDT Fuel Pump Select switch. (see
>http://www.wideopenwest.com/~glaesers/RV7-Electrical-Architecture.html -
>bottom figure OR: http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/EAA_IG/Emotor1of7.jpg and
>http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/EAA_IG/Emotor2of7.jpg)
>
>These two switches are both potential single points of failure. If either
>fails, lots of silence. On the plus side (?), both Main and Aux positions
>of both switches should be tested before each flight, and once in their
>normal positions, neither would be moved inflight unless an abnormal
>situation occurs (some failure the switch is supposed to solve!)
>
>So, how risky do you consider this design? Can you suggest a more robust
>design? Any alternatives I've dreamed up so far just add complexity and
>potential for switch mis-management.
>
>Or am I just looking for problems that aren't there? I'm not looking to
>nit-pick their design, but if there is a more robust solution, I'm certainly
>interested (and I suspect others will be as well).
>
>Thanks,
>
> Dennis Glaeser
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 4
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| Subject: | copper clad aluminum wire |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:32 PM 8/21/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi again Bob,
>
>Now I am at the stage of installing connectors to the copper clad
>aluminum cable & would like some advice. Eric recommends 'dimpling' the
>connector in one place with a 3/8" rounded drift & then soldering with
>rosin core solder. I have found an electrical distributor house that will
>rent me their large crimping tool, so I would think that to be
>superior. Do you agree?
The "dimpling" procedure is recommended to "close up the joint"
such that a minimum of solder is required to complete the installation.
I prefer copper wedges as described in the article at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
The goal is to achieve a snug fit of terminal on strands of
wire before solder is applied.
Either crimping or soldering is acceptable.
>Any advice on how to guage the 'tightness' of the crimp so as to avoid
>cold flow?
Don't understand what you mean my "cold flow" . . . makeshift
crimping techniques always generate concerns about gas-tightness
of the finished joint . . . see:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf
>Would you recommend solder at all or just leave the joint crimped?
Solder flowed into a "snug" joint has a very high probability of
gas-tightness and mechanical integrity using ordinary hand tools
and readily available materials. Crimping with the PROPER dies
offers exactly the same integrity of joint. There's no reason
to do both. See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html
>If solder,what type: Rosin Core? Silver solder?
Ordinary 60/40 or 63/37 electronic solder is fine. Radio
Shack and virtually any electronic supply house will have
it.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Starting Problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
8/23/2004
Extract from a previous posting by Bob Nuckolls
<<Excellent example of this phenomenon. Another example is the pinion
gear retraction delay experienced by folks who try to wire PM motor
starters from Skytec exactly like the wound field motor starters from B&C.
Voltage generated by the motor during spin-down keeps the pinion gear
engaged for several seconds after the starter button is released.>>
Hello Bob, Thanks for your response on this subject. My question is Do only PM
motors have this back EMF characteristic during spin-down or is the characteristic
also found in wound field motors?
If this back EMF characteristic also exists in wound field motors (my starter is
from B&C) then I will rewire my starting vibrator to provide its source of electricity
from the 12 volt input to the starter contactor coil.
Many thanks for your help. OC
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: incident with fuse holder |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jaye and Scott Jackson" <jayeandscott@telus.net>
Gentlemen:
My RV-6 has two fuse blocks, the big one and the smaller one for the
e-bus, as per the Connection manual, and the big fuse block has developed
exactly the symptoms you mention.
Although the smaller fuse block works well, and one side of the larger one
still works fine, every fuse on the other side is loose, and the Fast-On
tabs are also loose. Pushing in on the fuse stops the tab from moving
around, but the fuse block seems to have lost its ability to grip any of the
fuses on the one side, in that wiggling the tab causes the appropriate fuse
to lift up slightly and lose contact.
Hadn't got around to seeing how it's made or what I could do to repair it
yet.
Scott in VAncouveRV-6,
150 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: incident with fuse holder
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider"
<wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
>
> Hello Bob,
>
> thanks a lot for the fast response
>
> > >It looks like part of the fuseholder was also melted (black spots on
teh
> > >fuse, would you recommend to replace the whole holder?
> >
> > Yes. I've been aware of one other incident like this. In the other
case,
> > the grip tension of the fuse clip was getting damaged by occasional
> > contact with passenger's foot while ingressing/egressing the airplane.
> > Your situation may be different but I think the potential root cause
> > is still the same.
> >
> Hm, I do undesrtand, as mechanical damage can get loose contacts, however,
> my fuseholders are all built in behind the panel on top of the glove box
and
> can not be touched without lowering the panel first or open the
glareshield
> and this fuse was in the 67 hrs my plane has meanhwile just once removed.
It
> will be intersting to see if you can find out anything, I did remove the
> fuse with a pair of plyers, but as soon as I can replace the block I will
> send you the two parts!
>
> Werner
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Weight of RG-142 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Chad, I just noticed that the link I gave you to the cited article
was incomplete. You can find the article at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/economics_of_weight_reduction.html
At 12:49 PM 5/17/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>...
>> Excellent points. I can reinforce those ideas with the following
>> anecdotes from my own experience. In 1964 when I was a tech writer
>> for Cessna, a number commonly circulated around the
>> engineering department suggested "For every pound of emptly weight
>> added to our airplanes, it will cost the owner(s) of that airplane
>> $100 to buy the pound of stuff, maintain it, and purchase fuel
>> to carry it around over the lifetime of the airplane.
>>...
>
>Bob, would you be willing to cut/paste your message/response here ("Weight
>of RG-142") into an article on your site? In my builder's log I'm trying
>to reference well-reasoned discussions for some decisions I'm making, like
>the efforts I'm going through myself to save weight. It would be great to
>be able to provide a link to this exact response because it mirrors
>exactly what I was looking for, and I think some other people might
>benefit from the same thought process.
>
>Many experimental builders often go for that "one more device" in the
>panel, or "maybe just one wire size larger" for every wire, for the same
>unfounded reasons as they install TVS devices and other "flooby dust". I
>figure if we're going to go through all this effort to build a plane on
>the basis of "doing it right," we may as well actually "do it right."
I've done as you suggested. The piece was cleaned up a bit and
posted at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/economics_of_weight_reduction.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 8
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Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:04:56 -0700
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ken Rice" <kennrice@msn.com>
I have a magnetic clutch rated at 24 V and about 2-4 amps that I want to operate
in my 14 V system. Is there a simple way to step-up the voltage?
Message 9
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| Subject: | Dual VOR/GS Comant Splitter... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Malcolm Thomson" <mdthomson@attglobal.net>
I have a Garmin 430 and an SL30 Radio. The 430 has coax inputs for NAV
and G/S. The SL30 has one input for NAV and splits off the G/S signal
internally to the radio. My question is it OK to use a dual NAV, G/S
splitter (Comant CI 1125) that has two NAV and two G/S outputs? My
intent is to run one NAV and one G/S to the 430 and then run the second
NAV to the SL30. This will leave one G/S output of the splitter
attached to nothing, also will the NAV signal still have the G/S signal
in it after it has passed through the splitter/diplexer?
Thanks.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: DC-DC converter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ken Rice" <kennrice@msn.com>
>I have a magnetic clutch rated at 24 V and about 2-4 amps that I want to
operate
>in my 14 V system. Is there a simple way to step-up the voltage?
Unencumbered as I am with any knowledge of this beast (by the way...what are
the specs?), here is the answer--or guess.......
1) Jeeeeze......can't you get one in 12V? Sell the other on eBay.
2) Sometimes relays and, I assume, clutches actually work well on a range of
voltages. Try it. Add a big cap and try it again. The locked current may be
very small.
3) You can buy a DC-DC converter that will do the job. Your current
requirement is high, but again....try 2). Maybe you can do with a small
DC-DC converter if the locked current is small.
4) It is trivial (I leave the exercise for the reader), to charge two
capacitors in parallel (12V) and discharge them in series (24V). They make
power supplies that do this continuously, but you may not need to.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
"Doctors are the same as lawyers; the only difference is that
lawyers merely rob you, whereas doctors rob you and kill
you too."
~ Anton Chekhov
Message 11
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<aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Re: Architecture for 2 batteries and 1 alternator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "glaesers" <glaesers@wideopenwest.com>
Hi Mickey,
I love it! Same number of switches, no single point of failure, and no $35
4PDT switches!
So I added a new diagram to my website
(http://www.wideopenwest.com/~glaesers/RV7-Electrical-Architecture.html) It
is also much cleaner and simpler to boot.
The only connection the other design allows that this one doesn't is running
the Main fuel pump from the Aux battery. That can be accomplished by making
the Main Fuel pump switch an ON-ON-ON switch hooked up so it is an OFF-Aux
Bat-Main Bat switch. I don't think it's worth the effort. If the main
battery and the aux pump both fail simultaneously, you've really ticked off
the Big Guy.
Have you been following the Subaru Engine Yahoo Group lately - regarding the
EXPBUS replacement being designed? I can't wait see what it is going to
co$t. I'm sure it will work great - some very smart folks are designing
it - but will it really do anything that this design doesn't?
This electrical design is looking pretty solid now. What other SPOFs are
left lurking in the wings?
Thanks for your help.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Mickey Coggins [mailto:mick-matronics@rv8.ch]
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Architecture for 2 batteries and 1
alternator
Hi Dennis,
I agree completely. I'm not planning on using the
4PDT switches. Here's where I am with the fuel pumps:
http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040725003830181
For the ECM, I've got this:
http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040406145425120
I'm not going to have any more single points of failure
in my system than possible, and I plan to evaluate and
understand the remaining SPOFs as carefully as I can.
Mickey
>The Eggenfeller Subaru Engine electrical architecture, described in their
>on-line installation manual, has a single 4PDT switch which is used for the
>engine Master Bus Switch - powers pumps and ignition from either the Main
or
>Aux battery It also has a single 4PDT Fuel Pump Select switch. (see
>http://www.wideopenwest.com/~glaesers/RV7-Electrical-Architecture.html -
>bottom figure OR: http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/EAA_IG/Emotor1of7.jpg and
>http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/EAA_IG/Emotor2of7.jpg)
>
>These two switches are both potential single points of failure. If either
>fails, lots of silence. On the plus side (?), both Main and Aux positions
>of both switches should be tested before each flight, and once in their
>normal positions, neither would be moved inflight unless an abnormal
>situation occurs (some failure the switch is supposed to solve!)
>
>So, how risky do you consider this design? Can you suggest a more robust
>design? Any alternatives I've dreamed up so far just add complexity and
>potential for switch mis-management.
>
>Or am I just looking for problems that aren't there? I'm not looking to
>nit-pick their design, but if there is a more robust solution, I'm
certainly
>interested (and I suspect others will be as well).
>
>Thanks,
>
> Dennis Glaeser
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 12
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| Subject: | strobe control box mount |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Margaret and Truman Sager <sag6267@otherside.com>
Any ideas out there on the mounting design for the strobe control box in
a RV-7? I cannot find any info in archive.
Truman Sager
wiring wings on QB
Message 13
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| Subject: | strobe control box mount |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DonVS" <dsvs@comcast.net>
Check out rvproject.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Margaret and Truman Sager
Subject: AeroElectric-List: strobe control box mount
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Margaret and Truman Sager
<sag6267@otherside.com>
Any ideas out there on the mounting design for the strobe control box in
a RV-7? I cannot find any info in archive.
Truman Sager
wiring wings on QB
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