---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/25/04: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:24 AM - Re: Locking female fast on source needed (Trampas) 2. 06:24 AM - Re: Locking female fast on source needed (Charlie Kuss) 3. 06:24 AM - Re: Locking female fast on source (Charlie Kuss) 4. 06:46 AM - Re: 220 Ohm Resistors? (rd2@evenlink.com) 5. 07:04 AM - Re: Simplification (Gary Casey) 6. 12:43 PM - Garmin GPSMAP 295 for sale, $600 (royt.or@netzero.com) 7. 01:13 PM - Re: Brian LLoyd - airstarts (Brian Lloyd) 8. 03:49 PM - Re: 220 Ohm Resistors? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 04:58 PM - Re: Dual VOR/GS Comant Splitter... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 05:29 PM - Re: Dual VOR/GS Comant Splitter... (Malcolm Thomson) 11. 05:33 PM - Re: DC-DC converter (Brian Lloyd) 12. 05:46 PM - Re: Dual VOR/GS Comant Splitter... (Brian Lloyd) 13. 05:59 PM - Re: Simplification (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 06:29 PM - Simplification () 15. 06:35 PM - Re: Dual VOR/GS Comant Splitter... (Malcolm Thomson) 16. 07:02 PM - Male Fast-ons () 17. 07:27 PM - Which diode to use? (Dr. Andrew Elliott) 18. 07:27 PM - Crimper selection? (Dr. Andrew Elliott) 19. 07:50 PM - Locking female fast-ons () 20. 08:13 PM - Re: Locking female fast on source needed (William Slaughter) 21. 08:28 PM - Re: Locking female fast-ons (John D. Heath) 22. 08:46 PM - Re: Locking female fast on source needed (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 23. 08:52 PM - Re: Crimper selection? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 24. 09:03 PM - Re: Simplification (David Carter) 25. 09:48 PM - Switched Pot (Geoff Evans) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:52 AM PST US From: "Trampas" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Locking female fast on source needed --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" I do a lot of electrical work on cars and here is a relay pigtail which fits the "standard" automotive relay http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=525&item=SRLY-2& type=store Here is a "standard" automotive relay http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=500&item=RLY-643 &type=store Regards, Trampas Stern www.sterntech.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Locking female fast on source needed --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss David Read the description of those terminals carefully. The 1/4" females (#31073) are for 16/14 AWG wire. The ones for 22/18 AWG (# 30073) are only 3/16" wide. They won't fit on the 1/4" terminals of my relays. The 3/16" terminals are used on the newer "micro" relays. GM and other manufacturers are switching over to these smaller relays. My experience is that the failure rate due to overheating of the smaller contact surfaces is much higher, than for the older relays with 1/4" terminals. I want to stick with the "tried and true". These 1/4" female push on connectors are as common as dirt in the automotive world. I just need to find a part number or a source. Charlie >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" > > >Female Fastons would be simple. However, in viewing pg. 52 at the link you >gave below, there was a note in the the bottom right hand corner saying >"High capacity and standard relays use connectors 75280, 75281 and 75282 on >page 54." By simply going to the url address line at top of browser and >backing over the last digit (the 2 in page "52") and replacing 2 with 4, it >brought up page 54, which has connector shells - and (drum roll) . . . >female Fastons, if I understand the term correctly. Gives part numbers for >all the stuff. > - Says they are "bright tin plated" which is good - better corrosion >resistance. > >David > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Charlie Kuss" >To: >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Locking female fast on source needed > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss > > > > > John > > Availability was one of the reasons I chose these relays. They are the > > Bosch units used on all GM, BMW, Volvo, Mercedes Benz and VW autos. > > Murphy's law says that stuff breaks a thousand miles from home. I'd hate >to > > have to stay over night because I couldn't lay hands on a part on a >weekend > > afternoon. These connectors are used by GM. You can find the relays here > > for under $4 each. > > > > http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M37/catalog/216_52 > > > > The auto dealers here (in the USA), don't sell individual electrical > > terminals. They sell either complete wiring harness sections or "repair > > plugs". I've been in that business for over 20 years. Been there, done >that. > > > > Charlie Kuss > > > > > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" > > > > > > >Most European auto dealerships have these in a electrical repair kit, >which > > >was part of their dealership requirement. > > > If you're not locked in to those particular relays, you might want to >find > > >a dealer and see what they have to offer. > > > I plan to use GM or Chrysler standard. They are smaller, light, >available > > >at a fair price, and meet what ever electrical requirements you can dream > > >up. Available, as in stock at auto dealers across the country. That > > >includes Sockets and Fast-On connectors. > > > > > > John >D. > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Charlie Kuss" > > >To: "AeroElectric List" > > >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Locking female fast on source needed > > > > > > > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss > > > > chaztuna@adelphia.net > > > > > > > > >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:02 AM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Locking female fast on source needed --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss Trampas, Thanks for the lead on a new electronic source. That's a great price for the relay. Charlie Kuss >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" > > I do a lot of electrical work on cars and here is a relay pigtail which >fits the "standard" automotive relay > >http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=525&item=SRLY-2& >type=store > >Here is a "standard" automotive relay > >http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=500&item=RLY-643 >&type=store > > >Regards, >Trampas Stern >www.sterntech.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie >Kuss >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Locking female fast on source needed > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss > > >David > Read the description of those terminals carefully. The 1/4" females >(#31073) are for 16/14 AWG wire. The ones for 22/18 AWG (# 30073) are only >3/16" wide. They won't fit on the 1/4" terminals of my relays. The 3/16" >terminals are used on the newer "micro" relays. GM and other manufacturers >are switching over to these smaller relays. My experience is that the >failure rate due to overheating of the smaller contact surfaces is much >higher, than for the older relays with 1/4" terminals. I want to stick with >the "tried and true". > These 1/4" female push on connectors are as common as dirt in the >automotive world. I just need to find a part number or a source. >Charlie > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" > > > > > >Female Fastons would be simple. However, in viewing pg. 52 at the link you > >gave below, there was a note in the the bottom right hand corner saying > >"High capacity and standard relays use connectors 75280, 75281 and 75282 on > >page 54." By simply going to the url address line at top of browser and > >backing over the last digit (the 2 in page "52") and replacing 2 with 4, it > >brought up page 54, which has connector shells - and (drum roll) . . . > >female Fastons, if I understand the term correctly. Gives part numbers for > >all the stuff. > > - Says they are "bright tin plated" which is good - better corrosion > >resistance. > > > >David > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Charlie Kuss" > >To: > >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Locking female fast on source needed > > > > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss > > > > > > > > John > > > Availability was one of the reasons I chose these relays. They are the > > > Bosch units used on all GM, BMW, Volvo, Mercedes Benz and VW autos. > > > Murphy's law says that stuff breaks a thousand miles from home. I'd hate > >to > > > have to stay over night because I couldn't lay hands on a part on a > >weekend > > > afternoon. These connectors are used by GM. You can find the relays here > > > for under $4 each. > > > > > > http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M37/catalog/216_52 > > > > > > The auto dealers here (in the USA), don't sell individual electrical > > > terminals. They sell either complete wiring harness sections or "repair > > > plugs". I've been in that business for over 20 years. Been there, done > >that. > > > > > > Charlie Kuss > > > > > > > > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" > > > > > > > > > >Most European auto dealerships have these in a electrical repair kit, > >which > > > >was part of their dealership requirement. > > > > If you're not locked in to those particular relays, you might want >to > >find > > > >a dealer and see what they have to offer. > > > > I plan to use GM or Chrysler standard. They are smaller, light, > >available > > > >at a fair price, and meet what ever electrical requirements you can >dream > > > >up. Available, as in stock at auto dealers across the country. That > > > >includes Sockets and Fast-On connectors. > > > > > > > > John > >D. > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Charlie Kuss" > > > >To: "AeroElectric List" > > > >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Locking female fast on source needed > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss > > > > > chaztuna@adelphia.net > > > > > > > > > > > >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:02 AM PST US From: Charlie Kuss needed.....(Long) abbreviated resume Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Locking female fast on source needed.....(Long) abbreviated resume --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss needed.....(Long) abbreviated resume Hi John Thanks for the ideas. I live in SE Florida. Down here, the dealers don't want to actually FIX anything. They want to sell "big ticket" parts and services. I was hoping that maybe Bob N could tell me what the electronics industry calls these female fast ons, which have that locking tab on the side (to go into the socket) Searching on my own, I now believe they are called QC push-on female terminals. Searching the big electronics distributor catalogs without knowing the terminology, is hopeless. Sort of like looking for a head light trim ring without knowing that GM calls it a bezel. I'm going to try my local, aftermarket parts supplier. I suspect that he will either have them in stock, or can special order them for me. I'm currently trying to get a harness connector repair kit for a customer's 1996 Plymouth Grand Voyager. The signal from the transaxle output speed sensor is intermittent. I can't replicate the fault (happens once a month). It's been 3 days on special order from the local dealer. Yet his auto trans expert tells me that he has seen that plug go bad before. Like I said, if there isn't a big profit in it, they don't want to stock it or waste time getting one. I spent almost 1/2 an hour with the parts manager just to find a part number to order this item. They wouldn't have bothered, except I was "right there" standing over them, insisting. Anyway, thanks again for the suggestions. Charlie do not achieve >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" > abbreviated resume > >Some of the GM relays are also Made by OMRON in Canada. In my 20 years in >that same business I found that all the parts are not in the parts room. >Somewhere (where ever they keep the Special Tools) in each of the >dealerships you have named., is a suit case sized kit filled with, Fast-Ons >of various sizes, sockets, pin pushers, and various crimping pliers. Don't >Go to parts, find the Service Manager and get a Mechanic. Most >Mercedes Benz and BMW electrical are made by Siemens. I tried to point you >to another source but completely left out the word ... Chrysler. > >abbreviated resume >You know I STOPPED dead in my tracks in the middle of this reply. Thinking >how many have the hair on the back of their necks standing on end ready to >flame every word I say. I don't offer my view point to anyone unless I'm >standing on pretty firm facts. I've been around airplanes all my life, spent >26 years in the military flying and fixing them. After that I spent 20 years >making a living fixing cars. Porsche, VW, Audi, MB, BMW, Volvo, Saab, >Ferrari, Masseratti and my favorite Chevrolet are some of the makes I worked >on. > What information I offer is given so that someone might, with more ease or >economy, realize our mutual dream of flight. I have already researched this >air plane to some considerable extents. When I see on the list someone >covering the same ground that I already have, I want to lend a helping hand. >I just had to add that in. I feel better. > > >John >D. Heath > >CW4 >USA Retired > >Building the shop to build the airplane in > >DO NOT ARCHIVE > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Charlie Kuss" >To: >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Locking female fast on source needed > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss > > > > > > John > > Availability was one of the reasons I chose these relays. They are the > > Bosch units used on all GM, BMW, Volvo, Mercedes Benz and VW autos. > > Murphy's law says that stuff breaks a thousand miles from home. I'd hate > > to > > have to stay over night because I couldn't lay hands on a part on a > > weekend > > afternoon. These connectors are used by GM. You can find the relays here > > for under $4 each. > > > > http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M37/catalog/216_52 > > > > The auto dealers here (in the USA), don't sell individual electrical > > terminals. They sell either complete wiring harness sections or "repair > > plugs". I've been in that business for over 20 years. Been there, done > > that. > > > > Charlie Kuss > > > > > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" > >> > >> > >>Most European auto dealerships have these in a electrical repair kit, > >>which > >>was part of their dealership requirement. > >> If you're not locked in to those particular relays, you might want to > >> find > >>a dealer and see what they have to offer. > >> I plan to use GM or Chrysler standard. They are smaller, light, > >> available > >>at a fair price, and meet what ever electrical requirements you can dream > >>up. Available, as in stock at auto dealers across the country. That > >>includes Sockets and Fast-On connectors. > >> > >> John D. > >> > >> > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "Charlie Kuss" > >>To: "AeroElectric List" > >>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Locking female fast on source needed > >> > >> > >> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss > >> > chaztuna@adelphia.net > >> > >> > >>DO NOT ARCHIVE > >> > >> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:57 AM PST US From: rd2@evenlink.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 220 Ohm Resistors? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com Hi Malcolm, I haven't looked at the particular application you are referring to, but the generic method is: -LED is rated 3 V 20 ma (just an example, your LED's may be slightly different, use your numbers) -To connect the above LED to 13.8 V DC, you need a Voltage drop of 10.8 V - R = V/A (Ohm's Law), in other words: -Needed Voltage drop divided by current = resistance -10.8 V divided by 0.02 A (20 mA) = 540 ohm resistor. For the above example you need a 540 ohm resistor. -Wattage of resistor should be = V x A (Voltage times current) -V = 10.8 V (the Voltage drop the resistor carries) -A = 20 mA (the current flowing through the resistor) -Wattage = 10.8 x 0.02 = 0.216 Watt So, for the above example it would be a 540 ohm 0.25 Watt resistor (0.25 W is standard). To be conservative I'd use a 0.5 W resistor (for better heat dissipation). If you can't find the exact resistor and space allows, you can combine resistors in parallel or series. Papallel (of equal values) halves the resistance and doubles the wattage, in series resistances wattages are added. Rumen _____________________Original message __________________________ (received from Malcolm Thomson; Date: 08:17 PM 8/24/2004 -0600) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Malcolm Thomson" I believe I have seen that two 220 ohm resistors can be used in conjunction with an LED to act as a OV light on the B&C LR3s. Can someone help me with how 220 ohm was determined and why two of them? Normally, I use a 600 ohm resistor in series with an LED to operate at 13.8V. (drop 12V at 20ma). What am I missing here? ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:59 AM PST US From: "Gary Casey" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Simplification --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" There were a number of very good comments received - I appreciate them all: Manual master switch - <<(from Bob) How many parts are anticipated for the mechanical linkage to the battery switch. Are these more (less) likely to fail than a contactor?>> I would hope it would be less likely to fail as the contactor requires a continuous current to work - any open in coil will render it inoperative. The manual switch could fail, probably by the linkage falling off - but the failure mode is to stay where it was, not fail open. Then there is the continuous current draw of the contactor, but who's counting milliamps? <<(From Bob) Do you plan to have an alternate power path to and endurance bus? How would failure of a battery contactor affect the outcome of any particular mode of flight?>> Yes, there will be a direct path from the battery through a switch to the endurance bus as well as a diode feed from the main bus. I expect that an IFR flight will be inconvenienced from a master failure, but I don't expect a higher heart rate. Besides the primary Chelton PFD there will be a complete vacuum-powered "6-pack" on the right side of the panel in addition to the endurance bus. "contactor-less" starter. There was another comment on this subject by a builder and basically, his comments were correct. The main starter power will be connected at the bus-side of the master switch. The solenoid power will be fed through the main bus and a momentary-contact switch. Eliminate the alternator switch entirely. There was a suggestion to mount the breaker close to the master to make it intuitive. It brings up a good question: With the alternator field power directly connected to the main bus the alternator would be self-exited with the master off IF the stator were connected to the main bus side of the master. So the no-switch idea would only work if the alternator stator were wired to the BATTERY side of the master. that's not such a good idea because if the stator developed a short it could discharge the battery (BTDT). hmm. Considering Bob's reminder of resale value, it just might push me back to a conventional contactor and sequential master switch. Assuming the direct connection of the stator through a fuse to the main bus side of the master contactor what's to prevent that from pulling the system down (assuming the short isn't enough to blow the fuse)? There is no way to manually disconnect the stator from the main bus. Add a 60-amp pullable breaker? But that would add several feet of thick wire and several electrical connections. Thanks again, Bob, for all the excellent comments. Gary Casey ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:43:26 PM PST US From: "royt.or@netzero.com" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin GPSMAP 295 for sale, $600 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "royt.or@netzero.com" Im going to upgrade my GPSMAP 295 to a GPSMAP 296. I can get $600 trade in for the 295. Id be happy to sell the 295 for $600 plus shipping. This would include: GPSMAP 295 Receiver One Americas Highway basemap Built-in Jeppesen Database Yoke Mount Dashboard mount GA26 Low-Profile Antenna PC Interface Cable Cigarette Lighter Adapter Carrying Case User's Manual Quick-Reference Guide Garmin training video Please let me know by Sunday 8/29 if you are interested in buying this. Regards, Roy N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 283hrs, 349 landings ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:13:08 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Brian LLoyd - airstarts --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd On Aug 22, 2004, at 11:50 AM, Fergus Kyle wrote: > How that would echo in NA was a mystery to me. The > advantage was > airborne weight I am told, but what is the weight cost of the air > turbine > starter (?) and the compressed air tank and piping? .....and hoiw > would it > compare to present fuel system starters? I don't know what a fuel system starter is so I can't comment on that. But as for the air starting system, an air distributor admits compressed air directly to the cylinder that is just past TDC on its power stroke. The engine literally turns itself over. There is no "starter" as we know of it. Each cylinder has a port with a one-way valve that is held closed by combustion pressure should the cylinder already have fired. So the weight of the system consists of some aluminum tubing, an air tank made out of welded sheet metal (a couple of pounds), a compressor to make more compressed air, an air distributor, and a solenoid valve. Yes it is light and simple. The only real complexity is in the air distributor but even that is pretty simple. If anyone is contemplating building something, the Russian M14P engine is a cheap source of 360hp. I paid under $10,000 for a first-run, zero-time engine. (Less than 600 hrs TTE with an overhaul to new tolerances.) You can't even get a good overhauled Lyc O-320 for that. And a lot of the CJ6A guys are upgrading from the 285hp Chinese engine to the M14P so there are good 285hp radials out there for around $5000. The key point I am trying to make is that there are other ways to skin the cat. Imagine how much simpler and lighter your wiring can be if you never ask your electrical system to turn a starter. And the radial engines make such a lovely sound when they pass by. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:49:15 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 220 Ohm Resistors? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:17 PM 8/24/2004 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Malcolm Thomson" > > >I believe I have seen that two 220 ohm resistors can be used in >conjunction with an LED to act as a OV light on the B&C LR3s. Can >someone help me with how 220 ohm was determined and why two of them? >Normally, I use a 600 ohm resistor in series with an LED to operate at >13.8V. (drop 12V at 20ma). What am I missing here? To replace an incandescent lamp on the LR-3 Alternator Controller with and LED, one has to account for a built-in leakage current for the LR-3's lamp driver picked so that the lamp will illuminate even when ALL power is removed from the LR-3 as long as the warning lamp has + power. This allows the LR-3 to be used with incandescent annunciator panels that get power from a third source and still annunciate regulator failure if all power is removed from the regulator. This leakage is too small to cause an incandescent lamp to glow but it will cause an LED to glow even when it's supposed to be dark. Hence, the resistor around the lamp to drive up it's minimum illumination current to something on the order of 7-8 mA. So taking the 220 ohm resistors as recommended, let's figure 2v across the illuminated lamp which means we have about 9 mA used up in the parallel resistor. Figure 12.5v for the bus voltage while flashing which leaves 10.5 volts across the series resistor and 47 mA total through it. With 8 mA being sucked off by the parallel resistor, this leaves 39 mA or so for the LED. A bit more than its "rated" current but by no means overly stressful. The 10.5 volt drop on series resistor at 47 mA suggests that a 490 milliwatt resistor is called for . . . except that this is used in a flashing light system with about 50% duty cycle which cuts dissipation in half. So the 1/2 watt callouts on the drawing at http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/LV_Led.jpg are plenty conservative. Why 220 ohm resistors? That was a size stocked by Radio Shack (stock #271-1111) in packages of 5 for about a dollar. Other resistors could have worked just as well for the parallel value . . . but then one would have to buy two 5-paks and throw away 8 resistors. The design offered gets the job done with one 5-pak of resistors and only 3 surplus devices. Bob . . . --- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:32 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual VOR/GS Comant Splitter... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 06:57 PM 8/23/2004 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Malcolm Thomson" > > >I have a Garmin 430 and an SL30 Radio. The 430 has coax inputs for NAV >and G/S. The SL30 has one input for NAV and splits off the G/S signal >internally to the radio. My question is it OK to use a dual NAV, G/S >splitter (Comant CI 1125) that has two NAV and two G/S outputs? My >intent is to run one NAV and one G/S to the 430 and then run the second >NAV to the SL30. This will leave one G/S output of the splitter >attached to nothing, also will the NAV signal still have the G/S signal >in it after it has passed through the splitter/diplexer? What you propose will work fin . . . and there's no big need to do anything with the open GS port. Bob . . . --- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:33 PM PST US From: "Malcolm Thomson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dual VOR/GS Comant Splitter... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Malcolm Thomson" Thanks Bob for this and the other reply about 220 ohms resistors! Malcolm. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual VOR/GS Comant Splitter... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" --> At 06:57 PM 8/23/2004 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Malcolm Thomson" > > >I have a Garmin 430 and an SL30 Radio. The 430 has coax inputs for NAV >and G/S. The SL30 has one input for NAV and splits off the G/S signal >internally to the radio. My question is it OK to use a dual NAV, G/S >splitter (Comant CI 1125) that has two NAV and two G/S outputs? My >intent is to run one NAV and one G/S to the 430 and then run the second >NAV to the SL30. This will leave one G/S output of the splitter >attached to nothing, also will the NAV signal still have the G/S signal >in it after it has passed through the splitter/diplexer? What you propose will work fin . . . and there's no big need to do anything with the open GS port. Bob . . . --- == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:12 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: DC-DC converter --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd On Aug 23, 2004, at 1:04 PM, Ken Rice wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ken Rice" > > I have a magnetic clutch rated at 24 V and about 2-4 amps that I want > to operate in my 14 V system. Is there a simple way to step-up the > voltage? http://www.surepower.com/pdf/ebr_dcdc.pdf See the 41201 12V-to-24V upconverter rated at 5A. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:02 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual VOR/GS Comant Splitter... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd On Aug 23, 2004, at 8:57 PM, Malcolm Thomson wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Malcolm Thomson" > > > I have a Garmin 430 and an SL30 Radio. The 430 has coax inputs for NAV > and G/S. The SL30 has one input for NAV and splits off the G/S signal > internally to the radio. My question is it OK to use a dual NAV, G/S > splitter (Comant CI 1125) that has two NAV and two G/S outputs? My > intent is to run one NAV and one G/S to the 430 and then run the second > NAV to the SL30. This will leave one G/S output of the splitter > attached to nothing, also will the NAV signal still have the G/S signal > in it after it has passed through the splitter/diplexer? No, that will not work. If you do that you will have no GS signal to your SL-30 You need a broadband splitter such as a Mini-Circuits ZFSC-2-1 after the antenna to split the signal between the SL-30 and the nav splitter feeding the Garmin 430 like this: --- \|/ ,------------>[SL-30] | | `-------[ZFSC-2-1] | | `--------[nav/gs splitter] | | ,-----------. | `--------->| GS | | | Garmin 430| `-------------->| nav | `-----------' The ZFSC-2-1 splits the whole signal, both nav and GS, and routes it to the SL-30 and the nav/gs splitter. The nav/gs splitter then divides the nav and GS signals and routes them to the appropriate input to the Garmin 430. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:57 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Simplification --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 06:58 AM 8/25/2004 -0700, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" > >There were a number of very good comments received - I appreciate them all: > Manual master switch - > > <<(from Bob) How many parts are anticipated for the mechanical linkage to > the battery switch. Are these more (less) likely to fail than a >contactor?>> >I would hope it would be less likely to fail as the contactor requires a >continuous current to work - any open in coil will render it inoperative. >The manual switch could fail, probably by the linkage falling off - but the >failure mode is to stay where it was, not fail open. Then there is the >continuous current draw of the contactor, but who's counting milliamps? But with failure tolerant design, we are PLANNING on having it fail and making sure it's no big deal. In actuality these little critters are rather robust and don't need much attention over the lifetime of the airplane. They're a common fixture in any airplanes more complex than an ultra-light for convenience, commonality with other airplanes that virtually all pilots are familiar with and the weight/power penalties are tolerable. > <<(From Bob) Do you plan to have an alternate power path > to and endurance bus? How would failure of a battery contactor > affect the outcome of any particular mode of flight?>> >Yes, there will be a direct path from the battery through a switch to the >endurance bus as well as a diode feed from the main bus. I expect that an >IFR flight will be inconvenienced from a master failure, but I don't expect >a higher heart rate. Besides the primary Chelton PFD there will be a >complete vacuum-powered "6-pack" on the right side of the panel in addition >to the endurance bus. Okay . . . > "contactor-less" starter. There was another comment on this subject by a >builder and basically, his comments were correct. The main starter power >will be connected at the bus-side of the master switch. The solenoid power >will be fed through the main bus and a momentary-contact switch. There's no such thing as a contactor-less starter. What you describe is using the contactor BUILT IN to modern starters. A version of what you describe is illustrated in Figure Z-22 where I show a "boost relay" mounted next to the starter to take care of inrush currents, mitigate the need for fat wire and robust starter switch. However you choose to use this feature on the starter, as long as you've accounted for its unique characteristics, you're okay without adding the external contactor recommended by B&C and others. > Eliminate the alternator switch entirely. There was a suggestion to mount >the breaker close to the master to make it intuitive. It brings up a good >question: With the alternator field power directly connected to the main >bus the alternator would be self-exited with the master off IF the stator >were connected to the main bus side of the master. So the no-switch idea >would only work if the alternator stator were wired to the BATTERY side of >the master. that's not such a good idea because if the stator developed a >short it could discharge the battery (BTDT). hmm. Considering Bob's >reminder of resale value, it just might push me back to a conventional >contactor and sequential master switch. That's the thrust of my questions. Keep in mind that the Z-figures evolved over the past 15 years of discussions with the OBAM aircraft community. If we went back to Revision 4 or 5 to the 'Connection, you'd find some suggestions that are no longer published because we discovered their down-sides or lack of value. Unlike C-172s that are wired like they were in 1968, the Z-figures have and will continue to evolve through the filter of field experience and critical review by lots of folks. This is why I'm a little miffed when a newby writes to say, "I'm using Figure Z-xx but I've incorporated a few ideas of my own." He then lists all the things he plans to do and wants on-the-spot critical review. I have to explain that the best thing to do is pick a figure as published and then let's discuss any perceived shortcomings one at a time. If there is merit to alternative architectures, we'll publish it and get feedback from the rest of the community. That's how Appendix Z has grown and will continue to grow. > Assuming the direct connection of >the stator through a fuse to the main bus side of the master contactor >what's to prevent that from pulling the system down (assuming the short >isn't enough to blow the fuse)? How do you get a low current short "short" in the diode stack of an alternator? It's so rare that automobiles don't even bother to fuse the b-lead. > There is no way to manually disconnect the >stator from the main bus. Add a 60-amp pullable breaker? But that would >add several feet of thick wire and several electrical connections. Yup, and then you're beginning to look like at C-172 again. Bob . . . --- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:15 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Simplification --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Extract from a previous posting by David Carter <<2. Starter: I assume you are proposing not to have "main starter cranking current" go through a high current capacity "starter relay" - rather, have the starter motor hard wired to the battery and only have the pilot actuate a lower current switch to energize the relay coil of the relay on the starter that engages the Bendix and also closes the "high current" circuit to the motor from the "hard wired" wire. Do I have that wiring and terminology correct? Then, if the starter ever fails and continues to crank when the starter switch is released, then the Manual Battery Master can be used to kill power to the starter motor.>> 8/25/2004 Hello David, some terminology clarification if I may. A Bendix in starter terminology is a mechanical spiral geared device used to move and engage the starter motor pinion gear with the teeth on the fly wheel as a result of the initial rotation of the starter motor. Many modern starters use an on-starter solenoid to both complete electrical contact to the starter motor and move a pinion gear into and out of mesh with the teeth on the fly wheel or a gear in the engine accessory section. Therefore such starters do not incorporate a Bendix. OC ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:25 PM PST US From: "Malcolm Thomson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dual VOR/GS Comant Splitter... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Malcolm Thomson" I managed to get my hands on some test equipment this evening and found out your are exactly correct. The CI 1125 does in fact strip off the G/S from both the NAV outputs and hence I will have to use the approach you suggest. Thanks Malcolm. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual VOR/GS Comant Splitter... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd On Aug 23, 2004, at 8:57 PM, Malcolm Thomson wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Malcolm Thomson" > > > I have a Garmin 430 and an SL30 Radio. The 430 has coax inputs for > NAV and G/S. The SL30 has one input for NAV and splits off the G/S > signal internally to the radio. My question is it OK to use a dual > NAV, G/S splitter (Comant CI 1125) that has two NAV and two G/S > outputs? My intent is to run one NAV and one G/S to the 430 and then > run the second NAV to the SL30. This will leave one G/S output of the > splitter attached to nothing, also will the NAV signal still have the > G/S signal in it after it has passed through the splitter/diplexer? No, that will not work. If you do that you will have no GS signal to your SL-30 You need a broadband splitter such as a Mini-Circuits ZFSC-2-1 after the antenna to split the signal between the SL-30 and the nav splitter feeding the Garmin 430 like this: --- \|/ ,------------>[SL-30] | | `-------[ZFSC-2-1] | | `--------[nav/gs splitter] | | ,-----------. | `--------->| GS | | | Garmin 430| `-------------->| nav | `-----------' The ZFSC-2-1 splits the whole signal, both nav and GS, and routes it to the SL-30 and the nav/gs splitter. The nav/gs splitter then divides the nav and GS signals and routes them to the appropriate input to the Garmin 430. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:27 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Male Fast-ons --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Mark Banus" > 8/25/2004 Hello Mark, Just go to the google search window and type in avikrimp. Many sources will show up including Mouser, Digikey, Newark, etc. Avikrimp is a Molex trade name and these are the high quality PIDG type terminals with a metal area to crimp around the wire insulation for strain relief. The Avikrimp terminals come in a wide variety of sizes and types, including fully insulated, so you may want to pick around a bit to find the exact ones that you want. OC ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:51 PM PST US From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Which diode to use? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" Folks: I have discovered that the aux power outlet (i.e. cigarette lighter socket) in my non-ABAM plane is wired without any protection against back-feeding the bus. That is, if I plug in my 17-79 headset to recharge the internal battery, and forget that I did so, then when I shut down the plane the 9V headset battery provides at least enough power to light up the "alternator off" warning light. I would like to add a diode to the system to prevent this. In the forward direction, the socket is protected by a 5A fuse. What would be the appropriate size/rating of a diode to add to the line? And what would be the best way to wire it in? Andy Elliott N481HY/AA-1(TD,160)/KFFZ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:51 PM PST US From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimper selection? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" Will a ratcheting crimper designed for Sta-Kon terminals also properly crimp standard PIDG hardware? Is there any significant difference between Sta-Kon and other spec hardware? Andy Elliott N481HY/AA-1(TD,160)/KFFZ ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:50 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Locking female fast-ons --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: Charlie Kuss Listers, I recently purchased several Bosch (automotive style) relays and the related sockets for my RV-8A flap circuit. I purchased these items from Waytek Wire. Nice folks with brand name stuff at good prices. The sockets for these relays use a variant of the common 1/4" female fast ons. These are open barrel, rather than PIDG items. They also have a locking tang, to secure the connector into the socket body. Anyone familiar with automotive connectors has seen these.My question is, I need to find a part number and source for these connectors designed for 22/18 AWG wire. Waytek has these connectors for 16/14 AWG, but not for the 22/18 AWG. I know that these things are actually quite common. I've tried finding them in Allied Electronics paper catalog and their web site. However, I don't know the manufacturer or the proper terminology these items are known by. Because of this, I have not been able to locate what I need. Can anyone help? The relay sockets and connectors can be seen here: http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M37/catalog/216_54 I'm using the #75280 style sockets. These are modular. You can stack them together. The connectors are part # 31073, also seen on the above web page. Charlie Kuss RV-8A cockpit wiring & systems>> 8/25/2004 Hello Charlie, Why wouldnt an Avikrimp female .250 push on terminal work? You can get them in either insulated (AA-8140) or uninsulated (AA-1140F) configuration. (Also fully insulated, but you dont want that here).Just do a google search. Yes they are the high quality complete surround PIDG crimp on type terminals, not open barrel, and the lock on feature may not be a perfect match with the lock on built into the socket body, but Ill bet they wouldnt come loose from the male terminal inside the socket body. I use the Avikrimp fully insulated male and female terminals as in-line connectors in much of my wiring. One draw back is that when I want to separate them it takes holding the inner shell with a pliers and twisting a broad blade screwdriver between the side of the pliers and the end of the outer shell to separate them. The make positive connection. OC ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:33 PM PST US From: "William Slaughter" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Locking female fast on source needed --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Slaughter" This is not a knock on the relay pigtail or similar connectors, but they are not a required part. Let's not lose sight of the fact that you can simply attach regular female fast-ons to the male lugs on the relays. Just a thought.... William Slaughter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Locking female fast on source needed --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss --> Trampas, Thanks for the lead on a new electronic source. That's a great price for the relay. Charlie Kuss >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" > > I do a lot of electrical work on cars and here is a relay pigtail >which fits the "standard" automotive relay > >http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=525&item=SR >LY-2& >type=store > >Here is a "standard" automotive relay > >http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=500&item=RL >Y-643 >&type=store > > >Regards, >Trampas Stern >www.sterntech.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >Charlie Kuss >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Locking female fast on source needed > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss > > >David > Read the description of those terminals carefully. The 1/4" females >(#31073) are for 16/14 AWG wire. The ones for 22/18 AWG (# 30073) are >only 3/16" wide. They won't fit on the 1/4" terminals of my relays. The >3/16" terminals are used on the newer "micro" relays. GM and other >manufacturers are switching over to these smaller relays. My experience >is that the failure rate due to overheating of the smaller contact >surfaces is much higher, than for the older relays with 1/4" terminals. >I want to stick with the "tried and true". > These 1/4" female push on connectors are as common as dirt in the >automotive world. I just need to find a part number or a source. >Charlie > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" > > > > > >Female Fastons would be simple. However, in viewing pg. 52 at the > >link you gave below, there was a note in the the bottom right hand > >corner saying "High capacity and standard relays use connectors > >75280, 75281 and 75282 on page 54." By simply going to the url > >address line at top of browser and backing over the last digit (the 2 > >in page "52") and replacing 2 with 4, it brought up page 54, which > >has connector shells - and (drum roll) . . . female Fastons, if I > >understand the term correctly. Gives part numbers for all the stuff. > > - Says they are "bright tin plated" which is good - better > >corrosion resistance. > > > >David > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Charlie Kuss" > >To: > >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Locking female fast on source needed > > > > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss > > > > > > > > John > > > Availability was one of the reasons I chose these relays. They > > > are the Bosch units used on all GM, BMW, Volvo, Mercedes Benz and > > > VW autos. Murphy's law says that stuff breaks a thousand miles > > > from home. I'd hate > >to > > > have to stay over night because I couldn't lay hands on a part on > > > a > >weekend > > > afternoon. These connectors are used by GM. You can find the > > > relays here for under $4 each. > > > > > > http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M37/catalog/216_52 > > > > > > The auto dealers here (in the USA), don't sell individual > > > electrical terminals. They sell either complete wiring harness > > > sections or "repair plugs". I've been in that business for over 20 > > > years. Been there, done > >that. > > > > > > Charlie Kuss > > > > > > > > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" > > > > > > > > > >Most European auto dealerships have these in a electrical repair > > > >kit, > >which > > > >was part of their dealership requirement. > > > > If you're not locked in to those particular relays, you might > > > >want >to > >find > > > >a dealer and see what they have to offer. > > > > I plan to use GM or Chrysler standard. They are smaller, > > > >light, > >available > > > >at a fair price, and meet what ever electrical requirements you > > > >can >dream > > > >up. Available, as in stock at auto dealers across the country. > > > >That includes Sockets and Fast-On connectors. > > > > > > > > > > > > John > >D. > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Charlie Kuss" > > > >To: "AeroElectric List" > > > >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Locking female fast on source needed > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss > > > > > chaztuna@adelphia.net > > > > > > > > > > > >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:03 PM PST US From: "John D. Heath" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Locking female fast-ons --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" Try this link. www.waytekwire.com John D. DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Locking female fast-ons > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > > AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: Charlie Kuss > > > Listers, I recently purchased several Bosch (automotive style) relays and > the > related sockets for my RV-8A flap circuit. I purchased these items from > Waytek Wire. Nice folks with brand name stuff at good prices. The > sockets for these relays use a variant of the common 1/4" female fast ons. > These are open barrel, rather than PIDG items. They also have a locking > tang, > to secure the connector into the socket body. Anyone familiar with > automotive connectors has seen these.My question is, I need to find a part > number and source for these connectors designed for 22/18 AWG wire. Waytek > has these connectors > for 16/14 AWG, but not for the 22/18 AWG. I know that these things are > actually quite common. I've tried finding them in Allied Electronics > paper catalog and their web site. However, I don't know the manufacturer > or > the proper terminology these items are known by. Because of this, I have > not been able to locate what I need. Can anyone help? > The relay sockets and connectors can be seen here: > http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M37/catalog/216_54 > I'm using the #75280 style sockets. These are modular. You can stack > them together. The connectors are part # 31073, also seen on the above web > page. Charlie Kuss RV-8A cockpit wiring & systems>> > > 8/25/2004 > > Hello Charlie, Why wouldnt an Avikrimp female .250 push on terminal work? > You can get them in either insulated (AA-8140) or uninsulated (AA-1140F) > configuration. (Also fully insulated, but you dont want that here).Just do > a google search. > > Yes they are the high quality complete surround PIDG crimp on type > terminals, not open barrel, and the lock on feature may not be a perfect > match with the lock on built into the socket body, but Ill bet they > wouldnt come loose from the male terminal inside the socket body. > > I use the Avikrimp fully insulated male and female terminals as in-line > connectors in much of my wiring. One draw back is that when I want to > separate them it takes holding the inner shell with a pliers and twisting > a broad blade screwdriver between the side of the pliers and the end of > the outer shell to separate them. The make positive connection. > > OC > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:30 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Locking female fast on source needed --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 10:09 PM 8/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Slaughter" > > >This is not a knock on the relay pigtail or similar connectors, but they >are not a required part. Let's not lose sight of the fact that you can >simply attach regular female fast-ons to the male lugs on the relays. >Just a thought.... That's what I've always recommended. I KNOW the quality of a PIDG fast-on female connector. I don't know the quality of the connectors supplied with the pre-wired sockets or socket kits. One should not need to replace these relays very often . . . not having them on a socket is a minor risk/inconvenience. Bob . . . --- ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:11 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimper selection? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 07:20 PM 8/25/2004 -0700, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" > > >Will a ratcheting crimper designed for Sta-Kon terminals also properly >crimp standard PIDG hardware? Is there any significant difference >between Sta-Kon and other spec hardware? Don't know. You need to install some terminals and then cut them apart. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html It wouldn't hurt if you had access to a 40x microscope to check the wire grip for complete closure as described in the article. Someone else on the list might have some experience with this tool. If your tool looks like this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=303&item=4320192350&rd=1 . . . odds are that it's okay with PIDG harware. If it looks more like this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20767&item=4320748635&rd=1 I wouldn't use it on my lawnmower. Problem is that "Sta-Kon" covers a wide range of products that makes it difficult to judge suitability of your tool without having more data. Bob . . . --- ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:34 PM PST US From: "David Carter" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Simplification --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" OC, Thanks for the clarification. I'm assuming that aircraft starters don't use the Bendix engagement system - too old and clunky? The Z-diagrams show a starter "solenoid" - so that gadget is going to do the two things - provide current to motor and move the pinion gear to engage the flywheel. So, looks like us two proponents of "simplification" are suggesting use of a manual battery switch which then allows the elimination of the "starter contactor" in the Z- drawings, i.e., #2awg fat wire goes from downstream side of manual batt sw to fat wire terminal on starter solenoid (instead of to upstream side of a starter contactor) and the push-to-start wire goes to the starter solenoid coils instead of the "eliminated starter contactor coils". Sound reasonable and without some bad operational quirk I've not thought of? David ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Simplification > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > > Extract from a previous posting by David Carter > > <<2. Starter: I assume you are proposing not to have "main starter cranking current" go through a high current capacity "starter relay" - rather, have the starter motor hard wired to the battery and only have the pilot > actuate a lower current switch to energize the relay coil of the relay on the starter that engages the Bendix and also closes the "high current" circuit to the motor from the "hard wired" wire. Do I have that wiring and > terminology correct? Then, if the starter ever fails and continues to crank when the starter switch is released, then the Manual Battery Master can be used to kill power to the starter motor.>> > > 8/25/2004 > > Hello David, some terminology clarification if I may. A Bendix in starter terminology is a mechanical spiral geared device used to move and engage the starter motor pinion gear with the teeth on the fly wheel as a result of the initial rotation of the starter motor. > > Many modern starters use an on-starter solenoid to both complete electrical contact to the starter motor and move a pinion gear into and out of mesh with the teeth on the fly wheel or a gear in the engine accessory section. > > Therefore such starters do not incorporate a Bendix. > > OC ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:23 PM PST US From: Geoff Evans Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switched Pot --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Geoff Evans I recently bought a couple of the Vans dimmers for cockpit lighting. They come with a miniature (1/4" mount, 1/8" shaft) 1K pot. The suggested wiring diagram shows getting 12V from the nav light switch -- i.e. when the nav lights are on, the cockpit lights are on. However, it seems to me that the cockpit lights should have a separate fuse. Why lose the cockpit lighting if you happen to blow the fuse for the nav lights? So, since I don't want to install a separate toggle switch, I'm looking for a 1K miniature pot that has a switch at the fully counter-clockwise position. I'd like one with the same exterior parameters as the original pot -- namely, a 1/4" mounting hole, a 1/8" shaft, and solder terminals on the back (as opposed to on the side). The Digikey catalog has a bazillion different variants of these things, and I'm not sure which one to order. Can someone point me in the right direction, preferably with an exact part number or the like? Thanks. -Geoff RV-8 _______________________________