Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:59 AM - Posting dwg drawings or pdf images to a websit (Glaeser, Dennis A)
2. 06:07 AM - Re: e-bus alternate feed sizing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:09 AM - Re: Crimping 22AWG PIDG terminals (DAVID REEL)
4. 06:39 AM - Re: SCR for a Hobbs meter (George Neal E Capt AU/PC)
5. 06:58 AM - Shielded magneto wires - Z Figures (PeterHunt1@aol.com)
6. 07:50 AM - Re: Simplification (Ken)
7. 09:17 AM - Re: SCR for a Hobbs meter (Matt Jurotich)
8. 10:26 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 08/28/04 (Glen Matejcek)
9. 11:45 AM - Solid state contactors, OVP (SportAV8R@aol.com)
10. 12:36 PM - Re: SCR for a Hobbs meter (rd2@evenlink.com)
11. 08:42 PM - Re: OVM disconnect relay 'tween alternator & VR (David Carter)
Message 1
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"'aeroelectric-list@matronics.com'" <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
e for other builders to view
| Subject: | Posting dwg drawings or pdf images to a websit |
e for other builders to view
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser@eds.com>
David
When I went to your website and viewed the source, everything looked OK, but
nothing came up when I viewed the page. This typically means it couldn't
find the file.
The path to your file (/%7Edcarter/z13%20David%27s%20RV-6%2029Aug04.pdf) has
special characters and spaces (the %7 and %20). I suggest removing those -
either run the name together without spaces or use an underscore to make it
more readable. The "/%7Edcarter" as a subdirectory name is very suspicious
(to me) - verify that as well.
Feel free to contact me off-list if you need more help.
Dennis Glaeser
dennis.glaeser@eds.com
Time: 05:23:12 PM PST US
From: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Posting dwg drawings or pdf images to a website
for other builders to view
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter"
--> <dcarter@datarecall.net>
I have an unsophisticated website and am trying to learn how to add stuff to
it. I can post .jpg stuff OK. Today, I tried posting a .dwg file (my mod
to Z-13) - it wouldn't open with Autocad (actually, Intellicad clone of
Autocad). Converted to .pdf and uploaded - still won't display. I think I
don't have the source coding for that image correct in my "Builder's Log".
My website url for that page is
http://www.datarecall.net/~dcarter/Builder's%20Log.html
<http://www.datarecall.net/~dcarter/Builder's%20Log.html>
- Anyone have either of these type images posted - I'd like to go to
your site and "copy source" and see how you do it.
David
------------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: e-bus alternate feed sizing |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>Comments/Questions: Hello Bob,
>
> I have read the AeroElectric Connection and started the electrical
> system on my RV-7A. I am a neophyte when it comes to this stuff but I
> think its starting to sink in. I am following your Z-11 diagram and was
> curious why the fuse that is protecting the E-buss alternate feed is only
> 7A while the wire is 16AWG.
Keep in mind that the Z-figures are ARCHITECTURAL examples, not wiring
diagrams.
You need to select from all of the simple ideas offered in the rest of
the book
to fine-tune and adjust to fit your mission and equipment compliment.
You have demonstrated a good beginning by raising a question to clarify
fuse and wire selection for a particular circuit . . . simple ideas
from the fuse and wire sections of the book don't seem to fit together
in the Z-figure. Let's consider the following:
The e-bus alternate feed path is a major power pathway that should be
sized for robust performance (tolerate of abuse from downstream
faults) and low voltage drop. The 16AWG feeder and 7A fuse might be
selected for an e-bus load of 2A average, 5A peak and 16AWG was
selected to minimize voltage drop on a 10' long feedline.
You need to do a load analysis for how things on your e-bus will
load the alternate feed path. Consider also how far it is from
battery to e-bus. Of course, you could take the broad brush
approach and make the feeder from say 12AWG wire and protect it
with a 20AWG fusible link. VERY low voltage drop, VERY robust
fault protection. It's perhaps a bit 'oversized' but the weight
and cost penalties are measured in ounces and pennies.
Your e-bus feeder might be best configured with 16AWG and
a 10A fuse . . . don't know and you won't know until you
run the numbers.
> I belive 16AWG can handle more than 7 amps and I would think that you
> would not want the fuse to blow unnecessary while using the E-buss in an
> emergency situation. Can you set me straight on this issue? Thanks for
> your time. John
You're installing an e-bus so that you DON'T HAVE an
emergency situation. Had our hero Gomez in chapter 17
of the 'Connection enjoyed the benefits of an e-bus
in his airplane, the story he shared with us would never
have been written.
We're not just building electrical systems here . . .
ANYBODY can build and electrical system. The certified
side of GA has been demonstrating how to do it for
decades. We're building failure tolerant, emergency
free electrical systems.
Suggest you join us on the AeroElectric List described
at http://www.aeroelectric.com/consulting.html
I am certain you'll find it very worthy of your time.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Crimping 22AWG PIDG terminals |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
Everybody should try the following experiment in crimping. It's a great confidence
builder, only takes 15 minutes, and removes any uncertainty over the compatibility
of crimp tool and terminal.
After my failure with Cleveland's WTC380 tool, I borrowed an Ideal crimper with
a 30-579 die for PIDG terminals from OC Baker and crimped a 22 awg wire onto
one of the red terminals. Then I clipped the wire off where it exited the terminal,
removed the red plastic from the barrel & started grinding away the barrel
using my belt sander. Examining the ground end periodically, I could see
how the die had reformed the barrel gripping the insulation tighter and tighter
until I reached the wire only part of the joint. The small gap previously occupied
by insulation gradually disappeared until the whole thing looked like
one solid piece of metal as I neared the point of maximum crimp. Bob's article
on crimping shows pictures of this but because of variations in crimpers and
terminals, one doesn't really know if a crimper will do the job on the terminals
in one's parts bin until they try it.
Dave Reel - RV8A
Message 4
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| Subject: | SCR for a Hobbs meter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
Tom -
Wag Aero has a self-contained Hobbs meter that is activated by the vibration
of the engine. Powered by a lithium battery, so no wires, no switches, no
oil... Wag Aero SKU/Item#: A-255-000, Price: $34.00.
Neal
Message 5
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| Subject: | Shielded magneto wires - Z Figures |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PeterHunt1@aol.com
Bob:
I didn't get an answer on this so, if I may, I am asking again. I need a
little help understanding if I should be using shielded magneto wires in some
fashion. My LASAR control box which sits forward of the firewall has two low
voltage unshielded wires marked "left magneto P lead" and "right magneto P lead."
I have brought these non shielded wires into the cabin to my left magneto
switch and my right magneto switch which ground these wires when the engine is
shut down. No shielded wires in the circuit. Unison (the LASAR people) could
not tell me if I needed shielded wires anywhere, but did say there is voltage
in my two P lead wires even though there is no current flowing while my
switches are open in the engine running position.
I want the best possible installation.
Questions: Should I run shielded wire from my switches through the firewall
and splice them to the P leads on my LASAR control box? If this would be a
better instillation, should I ground the shield at both ends or just one end?
Question: What is the electrostatic coupling of magneto noise you speak of
in Note 3 of your book?
I did get one response to my original post from a guy who did not use
shielded wires with his LASAR, but he had the conventional start switch and claims
to
have "alternator" noise.
A little help would be appreciated, thanks.
Pete Hunt
Clearwater, FL
RV-6, finishing wiring
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Simplification |
on juliet
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
I found a cheap marine key switch with a 30 amp solenoid start circuit
rating that I'm going to try for this. My own preference is for a key
switch for cranking only because then I know someone can't accidently
crank it if the key is in my pocket.
Princess Auto is also selling surplus 200 amp starter push buttons for
cdn$20. which would likely stand up fairly well ;)
Ken
>>2. "contactor-less" starter. By using one of the lightweight
>>solenoid-engaged starters I can energize the solenoid with a simple
>>momentary-contact switch rated at the appropriate current (I figure a
50-amp
>>rating is adequate). It reduces the number of wires and connections,
>>eliminates one of the contactors and should improve reliability while
>>reducing weight. The system is identical in concept to all automotive
>>starts, but a redundant way to shut off the starter is still there
with the
>>master switch.
>>
>>
>
> Lots of builders have gone this route. There are no down-sides
> that I can deduce.
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: SCR for a Hobbs meter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Jurotich <mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov>
Bob
I infer from Pretty easy that means pretty easy for you. How about a "how
to" for those of us more challanged?
Thanks
Matthew M. Jurotich
e-mail mail to: <mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov>
phone : 301-286-5919
Message 8
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| Subject: | RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 08/28/04 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Hmmm... I was taught that "B" stands for "baby" and that "T" stands for
"Tiny".
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
> Hello Bruce, That connector is called a BNC connector. BNC stands for
Bayonet Neil
> Councilman.
>
> B=Bayonet for the way it connects together sort of like sticking a
bayonet on
> the end of a rifle.
>
> N=Neil for the last name of one of the inventors.
>
> C=Councilman for the last name of the other inventor.
>
> There is also a connector called a TNC connector. It will be left as an
exercise
> for the student to determine what TNC stands for.
>
> OC
>
> PS: Both RG 142 and RG 400 are double shielded.
>
> PPS: Extra credit goes to the first student who posts what the letters RG
stand
> for on the coax cable used with these connectors.
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Solid state contactors, OVP |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
'Lectric Bob-
I'm wondering if a few details of your design philosophy will necessarily shift
when builders begin adopting Eric Jones's not-yet-available solid state large-current
(1280 amp)contactors (or similar) in their designs, as regards the need
to shed the one-amp battery contactor load during an alternator failure. Seems
like in addition to a weight savings versus electromagnetic contactors and
relays, there might be a reduction in parts count for the essentials bus supply
routing.
I'm also curious to hear your "take" on PerihelionDesign's non-crowbar approach
to alternator regulation and OVP.
Bill B
--studying and planning the electrical system changes to my RV that I would have
incorporated 8 years ago if I had read the 'Connection back then :-)
Message 10
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| Subject: | SCR for a Hobbs meter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
Actually the same item can be found even cheaper; if interested drop me an
email, I'll try to dig out the source in the pyle here. I got one to test
it: worked well in the aircraft. The display is LCD so it is expected to be
"lazy" when it's cold (testing was done in summer). Also LCD displays
aren't best if you use polarized sunglasses. Problem with this meter was it
reacted to other vibrations; we used it successfully as walking/jogging
timer; tested it also in 2 vehicles on 2 different roads - if ride is very
smooth, it could read just partial time. Probably not bad, but I decided to
stick with the good old hobbs w/pressure switch (or whatever means of
activation is used).
Rumen
_____________________Original message __________________________
(received from George Neal E Capt AU/PC; Date: 08:38 AM
8/30/2004 -0500)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC
<Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
Tom -
Wag Aero has a self-contained Hobbs meter that is activated by the vibration
of the engine. Powered by a lithium battery, so no wires, no switches, no
oil... Wag Aero SKU/Item#: A-255-000, Price: $34.00.
Neal
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: OVM disconnect relay 'tween alternator & VR |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Ken (and rest of list, especially "Lectric Bob" for any comments),
I'll be using the 35 (or 40) amp John Deere alternator. Wonder if your idea
of an auto relay rated at around 20 amps is enough of a rating.
20 amp rating will probably will be OK, since the (OV disconnect) relay
contacts will close during engine start as soon as there is enough voltage
for relay coils to close the relay - no heavy electrical load at that moment
(almost no load - battery is supplying all the juice for engine ignition &
fuel inj) so not going to be any "stressing" arcs when contacts close. On
shut down, with most/all items turned off (except engine stuff on battery
bus), and with the engine and alternator at idle rpm & dropping during
shutdown, not going to be much output and therefore, again, not much arcing
when relay drops off-line as voltage drops during engine wind-down and relay
coils let go the "Normally Open" contacts.
I just got my pdf version of my modified Z-13 to show up on my web site
"Builder's Log" at
http://www.datarecall.net/~dcarter/Builder's%20Log.html
Tomorrow I hope to mod Z-13 to show the 2 contact relay between the PM
alternator & the VR, etc. I haven't yet learned how to insert the
electrical symbols in the "blocks" section of Autocad "Explorer" - will
study "Help" and figure it out.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
Subject: Re: OVM disconnect relay 'tween alternator & VR
> Hi David
> I was just going to use a double pole (two sets of contacts) automotive
> relay with push on connectors. Should be good for 20 amps. Bob didn't
> object to wiring it this way but he didn't seem to get excited about it
> either so I guess it's not a big deal one way or the other. Sometimes
> ideas like this attract more comment when they come up the second time
> in a couple of months... I now think a single set of contacts is
> probably also acceptable since it would take a double failure to really
> need the double contacts.
> Ken
>
> David Carter wrote:
>
> >Ken, I just did a pencil drawing rearranging the "Dynamo", VR, & OVM &
it's
> >relay. Having to learn new things about Autocad and will have Z-13
modified
> >soon. When I add it to my website (both as .dwg and also as .pdf), I'll
put
> >a notice on the Aeroelectric List. I'm assuming there is a suitable
> >disconnect contactor that has two contacts, 1 for each of the alternating
> >current wires between the PM Alternator and it's VR. That will certainly
> >"kill that snake" (the alternator) if electrons start running amok
anywhere
> >downstream of there.
> >
> >David
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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