Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:05 AM - Re: Alternator shaft thread? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 06:25 AM - Re: Solid state contactors, OVP (Eric M. Jones)
3. 06:38 AM - Re: Shielded magneto wires - Z Figures (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:40 AM - Re: Locking female fast-ons (Ken)
5. 07:10 AM - Re: Crimping 22AWG PIDG terminals (DAVID REEL)
6. 07:40 AM - Re: Shielded magneto wires - Z Figures (Werner Schneider)
7. 07:41 AM - Re: Shielded magneto wires - Z Figures (Werner Schneider)
8. 08:35 AM - Re: Simplification-reducing elec load so can use 35amp PM alternator [ was (James Foerster)
9. 08:44 AM - Re: Simplification-reducing elec load so can use 35amp PM alternator [ was (James Foerster)
10. 09:42 AM - Re: Solid state contactors, OVP (SportAV8R@aol.com)
11. 10:01 AM - Re: Re: Solid state contactors, OVP (SportAV8R@aol.com)
12. 11:29 AM - Re: Solid state contactors, OVP (Eric M. Jones)
13. 12:44 PM - Re: Re: Solid state contactors, OVP (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 12:52 PM - Re: Cleveland Crimp Tool Mystery Solved . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 01:07 PM - Re: Shielded magneto wires - Z Figures (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 01:29 PM - Z-13 - latest version of 'simplification' (David Carter)
17. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: Solid state contactors, OVP (SportAV8R@aol.com)
18. 01:56 PM - Re: Re: Solid state contactors, OVP (SportAV8R@aol.com)
19. 02:19 PM - Re: Shielded magneto wires - Z Figures (Werner Schneider)
20. 03:06 PM - Re: Shielded magneto wires - Z Figures (Walter Tondu)
21. 03:07 PM - Re: Locking female fast-ons (Charlie Kuss)
22. 03:07 PM - Re: Locking female fast-ons (Charlie Kuss)
23. 04:16 PM - Re: Re: Cleveland Crimp Tool Mystery Solved . . . (Paul Messinger)
24. 04:44 PM - Re: Re: Cleveland Crimp Tool Mystery Solved . . . (RV8ter@aol.com)
25. 09:10 PM - Re: Re: Simplification-reducing elec load so can use 35amp PM alternator [ was (David Carter)
26. 09:37 PM - Re: Re: Cleveland Crimp Tool Mystery Solved (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
27. 09:50 PM - Re: Shielded magneto wires - Z Figures (Werner Schneider)
28. 10:16 PM - Re: Transformer (N1deltawhiskey@aol.com)
29. 11:11 PM - Re: Transformer (Ron Koyich)
30. 11:31 PM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator shaft thread? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>Comments/Questions: What is the diameter of the shaft( where the pulley is
>mounted) and the thread pitch for a delco-remy generator on a Piper
>Apache? I agreed to loan my pulley to another pilot-friend and his
>mechanic ( more like grease-monkey) did not use a pulley-puller, instead
>he used a hammer and mushroomed the end of my generator shaft and I need
>to order a dye so I can reinstall the pulley and nut. These generators
>have a tag that says "Aero elct, Wichita, KS"
>Thanks
>Gerry
If the shaft has been hammered, then the bearings are suspect.
If that mechanic has an a/p ticket, it ought to be pulled.
You need to talk to what's left of the Aeroelectric Incorporated
which is now owned by Kelly Aerospace, 316-943-6100.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Solid state contactors, OVP |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter"
<dcarter@datarecall.net>
>Where's the info on PerihelionDesign's non-crowbar approach to regulation
>and OVP? Website? Word of mouth so far? If the "current technology"
relay
>shown with the Crowbar OVM in the Z-drawings could be replaced with "solid
>state", that would be another .8 or 1.0 amp reduction in load for my 35 amp
>alternator.
>David
David,
The "non-crowbar" OVP, which I prefer to call an "in-line" or "linear" OVP
is on my website. I have shipped a couple but now am waiting for two parts.
One due next week late and one on Digikey's backorder list with no delivery
date. I am no longer selling "crowbar" OVPs, since I have become a believer
in the linear approach. Call me a flip-flopper....
I have also redesigned the Powerlink Jr 35/50A to use IR's new IPS chips.
This lowers parts counts and is easier to build and provides additional
features.
The big PowerLink is a curious beast. I have several flying in airplanes and
have sent out several more. All with no reports of problems. On the other
hand, all with no data other than that.... So I am faced with (maybe) making
and selling a semi-critical device that has almost squat for test data.
Hmmmmm....
Will it start your airplane engine reliably? I don't know.
Will it work as a crossfeed/ground power contactor in your Lancair? I don't
know.
Will it work for 10,000 hours? I don't know.
Will it start your IO-550 at zero degC and 50 degC. I don't know.
What is the maximum time it can withstand 200A cranking at 50 degC? I don't
have a clue.
What happens if the ground guy uses two series batteries to start you cold
engine? I don't know.
Will it pass DO-160? Probably; but there are many unanswered questions.
Some things I know:
Weight: about one ounce. (The B&C S701-1 weighs 13 ounces).
Contact bounce none.
On current 30 milliamps or less.
Minimum operating (hold-on) voltage 6VDC appx.
Feedback is invited. I am easy to reach. And please check my website.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
Teamwork: "A lot of people doing exactly what I say."
(Marketing exec., Citrix Corp.)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Shielded magneto wires - Z Figures |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:57 AM 8/30/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PeterHunt1@aol.com
>
>Bob:
>
>I didn't get an answer on this so, if I may, I am asking again. I need a
>little help understanding if I should be using shielded magneto wires in some
>fashion. My LASAR control box which sits forward of the firewall has two low
>voltage unshielded wires marked "left magneto P lead" and "right magneto P
>lead."
>I have brought these non shielded wires into the cabin to my left magneto
>switch and my right magneto switch which ground these wires when the
>engine is
>shut down. No shielded wires in the circuit. Unison (the LASAR people)
>could
>not tell me if I needed shielded wires anywhere, but did say there is voltage
>in my two P lead wires even though there is no current flowing while my
>switches are open in the engine running position.
>
>I want the best possible installation.
>
>Questions: Should I run shielded wire from my switches through the firewall
>and splice them to the P leads on my LASAR control box? If this would be a
>better instillation, should I ground the shield at both ends or just one end?
What do the LASAR drawings show? Where there are installation instructions
for the system, those should be your first source of installation
data.
>Question: What is the electrostatic coupling of magneto noise you speak of
>in Note 3 of your book?
There are three coupling modes to get noise energy into our out of a wire.
Electrostatic - where the noise conductor and victim conductor are in close
proximity and insulation acts as the dielectric of a capacitor.
Electro-static
coupling is most conducive to the propagation of fast rising voltages like
those found on magneto p-leads. Shielding breaks this coupling mode.
Electro-magnetic coupling works on external magnetic fields that surround
a current carrying wire and therefor work on current magnitude, not
voltage. Electro-magnetic coupling is broken with techniques like twisted
pair outbound and return path sharing or concentric conductors (center
conductor
outbound, shield return) or by gross separation of potential
victim/antagonist
wires.
Radiated is another ball game entirely where wires serve as antennas
for both transmission and reception of noise energy. This propagation mode
rarely prevails in a small aircraft noise problem. Spark plug wires are the
most noteworthy radiators and are easily tamed by shielding or judicious
use of resistance/inductance/capacitors (filters) to damp the radiation
efficiency of the wire.
>I did get one response to my original post from a guy who did not use
>shielded wires with his LASAR, but he had the conventional start switch
>and claims to
>have "alternator" noise.
>
>A little help would be appreciated, thanks.
>
>Pete Hunt
>Clearwater, FL
>RV-6, finishing wiring
Good to hear from you my friend. I'd be skeptical of the other anecdotal
response. If there are errors of installation for the ignition system
that cause you problems, the problems will have nothing to do with the
alternator. I'd do exactly what the installation instructions tell you
to do with a 95% confidence that it's going to be okay as installed.
By the way, I'm thinking about offering a seminar in Clearwater again
perhaps next spring. I want to bring Dee with me this time. Are we going
to get a ride in your RV-6?
Bob . . .
---
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Locking female fast-ons |
on juliet
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Those do look like the part numbers that I mentioned; which were
available from the Digi-key web site in lots of 10 a few months ago,
despite what the catalog may say. I can't vouch either way for the
quality - think they were Potter & Brumfield parts.
Ken
>snip
> Hmmmm . . . I guess I was thinking of the wrong 'locking' feature.
> I understand now that the question was about a the retaining barb
> that holds an installed terminal captive to the molded housing.
> The Digikey parts look like
>
> http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Amp/Web%20Data/42281.pdf
>
>
> Looks like the minimum buy is 100 pieces.
> These terminals can be installed using tools like B&Cs
> BCT-1 which you can see at:
>
>http://bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?9X358218#BCT-
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
>>>
>>>Charlie
>>>I haven't followed this thread but I have in my hand what sounds like
>>>what you might be after.
>>>Digikey A27927CT for 14-18ga
>>>Digikey A27930CT for 12-16ga
>>>They are tin plated 1/4" female pushons that lock into digikey PB16
>>>sockets for 5 pin VF4 series relays among others.
>>>Ken
>>>
>>>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Crimping 22AWG PIDG terminals |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
I sent the WTC380 to you on Monday via priority mail Bob. I tried to tell you
by replying to the sender but the mail was returned undeliverable. I sent crimp
examples to Buzz at Cleveland who was also very interested in knowing if there
was a problem with their product.
Dave Reel - RV8A
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Shielded magneto wires - Z Figures |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
> >I did get one response to my original post from a guy who did not use
> >shielded wires with his LASAR, but he had the conventional start switch
> >and claims to
> >have "alternator" noise.
>
> Good to hear from you my friend. I'd be skeptical of the other
anecdotal
> response. If there are errors of installation for the ignition system
> that cause you problems, the problems will have nothing to do with the
> alternator. I'd do exactly what the installation instructions tell you
> to do with a 95% confidence that it's going to be okay as installed.
>
Hi Bob and Peter,
I have some Alternator whining but is nearly not remarkable at all and I do
not blame it on the wiring of the ignition. The original installation
instruction
of the Lasar does show it as a twisted wire which I did.
Werner
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Shielded magneto wires - Z Figures |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
> Hi Bob and Peter,
>
> I have some Alternator whining but is nearly not remarkable at all and I
do
> not blame it on the wiring of the ignition. The original installation
> instruction
> of the Lasar does show it as a twisted wire which I did.
>
> Werner
>
Forgot to mention, I believe it is the alternator as when I increase load
(switch things on) the sound changes.
Werner
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Simplification-reducing elec load so can use 35amp |
PM alternator [ was
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comcast.net>
David,
I've been following this thread, and it occurs to me that you could go to the standard
Z-14 architecture by using low-current versions of the standard contactor.
I have one of these, and I measured 125 ma current draw, with an in-rush
of about 2 amps. These are extensively specified because they are used for electric
vehicles, and if I recall, can pass 600 amps for 30 sec, and 200 amps
long term. This has been mentioned on the list before: Oct 2002.
"...the source of the low power contactor. It
is made by Kilovac, which was bought by Tyco-and thus the site is harder to navigate.
The model that you would want is the EV200AAANA. This is $67.61 from
onlinecomponents.com , which is one of the distributors."
By using the Z-14 diagram, you would have the benefit of using something examined
by many people and refined to its present state. Also, construction and maintainance
would be easier.
Jim Foerster, J400, Z14 user(modified for one field alternator and one PM type.)
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Simplification-reducing elec load so can use 35amp |
PM alternator [ was
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comcast.net>
David,
Here is the link to the spec sheet.
http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf
If this does not work, use 'kilovac' on the tyco website, or 'ev200' to get to
the data. The links in the 2002 post were out of date.
Jim Foerster
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Solid state contactors, OVP |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
Where's the info on PerihelionDesign's non-crowbar approach to regulation
and OVP? Website?
That's where I got it... www.periheliondesign.com
I'm planning to contact Eric directly and ask the state of his hi-current solid
state relay developments. Website says they're in testing at 6 sites.
-Bill
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Solid state contactors, OVP |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
Eric: is the powerlink technology bidirectional, as in non-polarized for cross-feed?
Cost for the big one?
Thanks,
-Bill B
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Solid state contactors, OVP |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
>Eric: is the powerlink technology bidirectional, as in non-polarized for
cross-feed?
>Cost for the big one?
>Thanks,-Bill B
The stock item is one-direction. Custom order can be bidirectional. Hell,
since they don't yet really exist, custom item can be thermo-nuclear
powered. Or is that thermu-nuculur?
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
"You can't have a new boomerang until you throw your old one away."
--Bernie
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Solid state contactors, OVP |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:01 PM 9/1/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
>
>Eric: is the powerlink technology bidirectional, as in non-polarized for
>cross-feed? Cost for the big one?
>
>Thanks,
>
>-Bill B
battery contactors need to be bi-directional too . . . ya gotta
charge and discharge the battery through the same device.
Bob . . .
---
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Cleveland Crimp Tool Mystery Solved . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:12 AM 9/1/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
>
>I sent the WTC380 to you on Monday via priority mail Bob. I tried to tell
>you by replying to the sender but the mail was returned undeliverable. I
>sent crimp examples to Buzz at Cleveland who was also very interested in
>knowing if there was a problem with their product.
>
>Dave Reel - RV8A
>do not archive
Got it today. Short story is that failure to grip a 22AWG wire
at all was because terminal was in tool backwards. Unlike the
tools B&C sells with symmetrical dies, this tool is placement
specific as to insertion of terminals. But even after you get the
terminal in the right way, there's a bit of a problem. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/CLEVELAND60A.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/CLEVELAND61A.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/CLEVELAND65A.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/CLEVELAND66A.jpg
Bottom line is that this tool was designed for use with
PVC wire having larger outside diameter than Tefzel and
in spite of its very nicely formed die set, just doesn't
close the insulation grip adequately on a PIDG terminal.
I'd appreciate it if you would forward a copy of this
message to Buzz. Your tool is on the way back . . .
Bob . . .
---
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Shielded magneto wires - Z Figures |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:41 PM 9/1/2004 +0200, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider"
><wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
>
> > Hi Bob and Peter,
> >
> > I have some Alternator whining but is nearly not remarkable at all and I
>do
> > not blame it on the wiring of the ignition. The original installation
> > instruction
> > of the Lasar does show it as a twisted wire which I did.
> >
> > Werner
> >
>Forgot to mention, I believe it is the alternator as when I increase load
>(switch things on) the sound changes.
aha! excellent data point. This almost always points to
a ground loop. You have more than one ground for avionics/audio
equipment that's reading high current ground returns for high
current equipment like landing lights, pitot heat, etc.
Bob . . .
---
Message 16
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| Subject: | Z-13 - latest version of 'simplification' |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
I've learned some more about Autocad (Intellicad actually) and figured out
how to use the symbol "blocks", etc.
- Wasn't able to eliminate the "alternator switch" and only use the CB.
Reason: The OVM's relay coils are hooked up to the batt bus so it would
suck the battery dry unless there's a switch to disconnect the coil after
engine shutdown/overnight, etc. I don't want to use the CB after every
shutdown - rather "use a switch for a switch - not a CB".
I printed my dwg file as pdf and re-posted to my website. Hope to get some
feedback form 'Lectric Bob and others.
- Especially what I did to the Endurance Bus circuit. I don't like
diodes - they fail, even though they are said to be "solid state, highly
reliable". My experience is otherwise. Rather use a simple switch to
select how the E-bus gets fed when the electrons hit the fan.
http://www.datarecall.net/~dcarter/Builder's%20Log.html
David
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Solid state contactors, OVP |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
They don't exist yet? Oh, man, I hate it when that happens! Can I beta test a
couple of prototypes for you, then? ;-)
Like you, it rubs me wrong when people can't pronounce "nuclear," especially if
they are carrying the nuclear football and launch codes.
>>The stock item is one-direction. Custom order can be bidirectional. Hell,
since they don't yet really exist, custom item can be thermo-nuclear
powered. Or is that thermu-nuculur?<<
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Solid state contactors, OVP |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
battery contactors need to be bi-directional too . . . ya gotta
charge and discharge the battery through the same device.
Bob . .
Point well-taken. I just might've overlooked that. This is why we pay you the
big bucks to remain on the list, Bob. You are getting those checks okay, right?
;-)
do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Shielded magneto wires - Z Figures |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
> > >
> >Forgot to mention, I believe it is the alternator as when I increase load
> >(switch things on) the sound changes.
>
> aha! excellent data point. This almost always points to
> a ground loop. You have more than one ground for avionics/audio
> equipment that's reading high current ground returns for high
> current equipment like landing lights, pitot heat, etc.
>
Hello Bob,
interesting, I followed the recommendation and grounded each and every
equipment to the single 48-tab ground block from B&C, but my panel is metal
and the avionics rack are directly screwed onto the aluminum as well as the
whole panel is hinged on the metal cage, I added a separate ground from the
tab block to the panel but no change. The Battery is connected with a 2AWG
cable to the ground tab, on the other side of the firewall a braided cable
is going to the engine crankcase.
As told the noise is very low and maybe only audible to me because of the
ANR headset.
What is the best way to tackle this? Should I build the milliohmmeter from
Figure 5-3 to investigate and where to lock first, what about if the noise
is not there with stopped engine (have to listen next time).
Thanks Werner
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Shielded magneto wires - Z Figures |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
On 09/01 11:19, Werner Schneider wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
>
> > > >
> > >Forgot to mention, I believe it is the alternator as when I increase load
> > >(switch things on) the sound changes.
> >
> > aha! excellent data point. This almost always points to
> > a ground loop. You have more than one ground for avionics/audio
> > equipment that's reading high current ground returns for high
> > current equipment like landing lights, pitot heat, etc.
> >
> Hello Bob,
>
> interesting, I followed the recommendation and grounded each and every
> equipment to the single 48-tab ground block from B&C, but my panel is metal
> and the avionics rack are directly screwed onto the aluminum as well as the
> whole panel is hinged on the metal cage, I added a separate ground from the
> tab block to the panel but no change. The Battery is connected with a 2AWG
> cable to the ground tab, on the other side of the firewall a braided cable
> is going to the engine crankcase.
>
> As told the noise is very low and maybe only audible to me because of the
> ANR headset.
>
> What is the best way to tackle this? Should I build the milliohmmeter from
> Figure 5-3 to investigate and where to lock first, what about if the noise
> is not there with stopped engine (have to listen next time).
Are both Mags grounded to the ground block as well?
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Locking female fast-ons |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Ken
Eureka! You've found it. Now that I know that the correct terminology is
"fast-in, fast-on", I'll have no trouble finding these. Thanks. I was
actually looking for the females for 22/18 AWG, which are on the same page
as the terminals you mention.
22/18 AWG Digikey # A27933CT AMP # 60295-2
It's nice to know that they even make these to handle up to 12 AWG. I had
already located the larger gauge terminals at www.waytekwire.com
Thanks again
Charlie Kuss
Now if Hurricane Francine leaves me and my RV-8A project intact, I might
just get this thing wired!
Boca Raton, Florida
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
>
>Charlie
>I haven't followed this thread but I have in my hand what sounds like
>what you might be after.
>Digikey A27927CT for 14-18ga
>Digikey A27930CT for 12-16ga
>They are tin plated 1/4" female pushons that lock into digikey PB16
>sockets for 5 pin VF4 series relays among others.
>Ken
>
>Charlie Kuss wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss
> <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
> >
> >David
> > Thanks for your efforts on my behalf. However, push ons are not what I'm
> >looking for. What I WANT, is called "push to lock". These are a variant of
> >the more common "push ons" you refer to below. The "push to lock" females
> >have a U shaped area cut from the back (flat) side of the terminal's
> >contact area. This area is bent out. When pushed into a matching socket,
> >the terminal is trapped in the socket by this tab. See
> >
> >
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Locking female fast-ons |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Bob,
The problem is not knowing the proper terminology for a product. Looking
in DigiKey, Mouser or Allied's catalogs when you don't know what the item
is called, is daunting. Thanks for everyone's patient help. Color me a
"happy camper" :-)
Charlie Kuss
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>At 06:36 PM 8/31/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> ><b.nuckolls@cox.net>
> >
> >At 02:08 PM 8/31/2004 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> > I've run numerous tests and demonstrations for resistance
> > to vibration and the "non locking" variety fast-on terminals
> > are entirely adequate for our applications. All of the PIDG
> > fast-on females feature a locking pip that will increase
> > retention force on male terminals that also feature the right
> > detent . . . yeah, it's pretty good idea but the difference
> > is not worth worrying about.
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
> Hmmmm . . . I guess I was thinking of the wrong 'locking' feature.
> I understand now that the question was about a the retaining barb
> that holds an installed terminal captive to the molded housing.
> The Digikey parts look like
>
> http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Amp/Web%20Data/42281.pdf
>
>
> Looks like the minimum buy is 100 pieces.
> These terminals can be installed using tools like B&Cs
> BCT-1 which you can see at:
>
>http://bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?9X358218#BCT-
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
> > >
> > >Charlie
> > >I haven't followed this thread but I have in my hand what sounds like
> > >what you might be after.
> > >Digikey A27927CT for 14-18ga
> > >Digikey A27930CT for 12-16ga
> > >They are tin plated 1/4" female pushons that lock into digikey PB16
> > >sockets for 5 pin VF4 series relays among others.
> > >Ken
> > >
> > >Charlie Kuss wrote:
> > >
> > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss
> > > <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
> > > >
> > > >David
> > > > Thanks for your efforts on my behalf. However, push ons are not
> what I'm
> > > >looking for. What I WANT, is called "push to lock". These are a
> variant of
> > > >the more common "push ons" you refer to below. The "push to lock"
> females
> > > >have a U shaped area cut from the back (flat) side of the terminal's
> > > >contact area. This area is bent out. When pushed into a matching socket,
> > > >the terminal is trapped in the socket by this tab. See
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >---
> > >Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004
> >
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > < Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
> > < of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
> > < exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
> > < work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
> > < despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
> > < by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
> > < minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
> > < happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
> > < then slip back into abject poverty. >
> > < >
> > < This is known as "bad luck". >
> > < -Lazarus Long- >
> > <------------------------------------------------------>
> > http://www.aeroelectric.com
> >
> >
> >---
> >
> >
> >---
> >Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> < Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
> < of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
> < exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
> < work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
> < despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
> < by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
> < minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
> < happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
> < then slip back into abject poverty. >
> < >
> < This is known as "bad luck". >
> < -Lazarus Long- >
> <------------------------------------------------------>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
>---
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Cleveland Crimp Tool Mystery Solved . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
Interesting.
ALL the tools I have seen designed for the Tefzel wire and the associated
PIDG terminals, have different dies for the wire crimp VS the insulation
crimp. Also PIDG terminals typically have different insulation allowances
(typically two or more commonally available allowances for the same terminal
style and wire size) in any wire AWG size. Thicker insulation needs a
different die set as well as different PIDG terminal. The higher quality
tools have an adjustment for wire insulation thickness in addition to the
different die. Also the tools are also clearly marked as to the sizes of
PIDG they are designed for.
The proper tool, wire and insulation dies, and PIDG terminal are a matched
set. I have seen many failures from wire pull out (inadequate crimp even
with the ratcheting tools), failure to support the insulation, or too much
support ending in crushed insulation, from the use of the lower cost
universal crimpers with symmetrical dies and or using the wrong PIDG
terminal for the wire insulation diameter. The shape of the insulation die
is different from the shape of the wire crimping die, at least on what I
use. The proper die set both crimps the wire and also forms the metal inner
sleeve completely around insulation with out crushing the insulation.
The same size (insulation/wire) die tools seem to be designed for the low
quality terminals found in auto stores and RS etc. The proper tools for PIDG
terminals will not even crimp the vinyl insulated terminals as the terminal
insulation is too thick (wide) to fit into the tool die set (at least those
PIDG tools I have will not work on vinyl insulation terminals). Tools that
properly crimp vinyl insulated terminals are unlikely to give proper
crimping on the Nylon PIDG terminals as these terminals are smaller for
their equivalent size.
In any event always test any different terminal to wire combo and do a pull
test (to wire failure).
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Cleveland Crimp Tool Mystery Solved . . .
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 10:12 AM 9/1/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
> >
> >I sent the WTC380 to you on Monday via priority mail Bob. I tried to
tell
> >you by replying to the sender but the mail was returned undeliverable. I
> >sent crimp examples to Buzz at Cleveland who was also very interested in
> >knowing if there was a problem with their product.
> >
> >Dave Reel - RV8A
> >do not archive
>
>
> Got it today. Short story is that failure to grip a 22AWG wire
> at all was because terminal was in tool backwards. Unlike the
> tools B&C sells with symmetrical dies, this tool is placement
> specific as to insertion of terminals. But even after you get the
> terminal in the right way, there's a bit of a problem. See:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/CLEVELAND60A.jpg
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/CLEVELAND61A.jpg
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/CLEVELAND65A.jpg
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/CLEVELAND66A.jpg
>
> Bottom line is that this tool was designed for use with
> PVC wire having larger outside diameter than Tefzel and
> in spite of its very nicely formed die set, just doesn't
> close the insulation grip adequately on a PIDG terminal.
>
> I'd appreciate it if you would forward a copy of this
> message to Buzz. Your tool is on the way back . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ---
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Cleveland Crimp Tool Mystery Solved . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
In a message dated 9/1/2004 3:52:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
b.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/CLEVELAND66A.jpg
good job bob, again.
do not archive
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Simplification-reducing elec load so can use |
35amp PM alternator [ was
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
James, that little beauty costs $167.61, not $67... used in hi pwr mil apps
(according to Tycoelectronics website). Like someone else said recently and
it applies to me: "You didn't specify cost as a factor"! But it really is.
Thanks for the other feedback. I'll check it out.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comcast.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Simplification-reducing elec load so can use
35amp PM alternator [ was
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster"
<jmfpublic@comcast.net>
>
> David,
>
> I've been following this thread, and it occurs to me that you could go to
the standard Z-14 architecture by using low-current versions of the standard
contactor. I have one of these, and I measured 125 ma current draw, with an
in-rush of about 2 amps. These are extensively specified because they are
used for electric vehicles, and if I recall, can pass 600 amps for 30 sec,
and 200 amps long term. This has been mentioned on the list before: Oct
2002.
>
> "...the source of the low power contactor. It
> is made by Kilovac, which was bought by Tyco-and thus the site is harder
to navigate.
> The model that you would want is the EV200AAANA. This is $67.61 from
> onlinecomponents.com , which is one of the distributors."
<snip>
> Jim Foerster, J400, Z14 user(modified for one field alternator and one PM
type.)
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Cleveland Crimp Tool Mystery Solved |
. . .
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
. . .
At 04:15 PM 9/1/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
>
>Interesting.
>
>ALL the tools I have seen designed for the Tefzel wire and the associated
>PIDG terminals, have different dies for the wire crimp VS the insulation
>crimp. Also PIDG terminals typically have different insulation allowances
>(typically two or more commonally available allowances for the same terminal
>style and wire size) in any wire AWG size.
<snip>
>In any event always test any different terminal to wire combo and do a pull
>test (to wire failure).
>
>Paul
Paul is correct in that you cannot rely on the statements
of tool and terminal manufacturers to insure compatibility
of products - ESPECIALLY when the tool manufacturer and
terminal manufacturer are different folks. These pictures
illustrate one example of what might be called a fairly
universal tool.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/67A.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/68A.jpg
These pictures are the business end of a t-head AMP tool
I bought almost exactly 40 years ago. It features an adjustable
wire-grip die set. Most of my AMP tools have adjustable
wire-grip dies although the t-head has the widest range.
Lot cost tools like the one that started this thread
never have adjustable insulation grip dies . . . so one
needs to be more selective.
When I offered the low cost tool for the first time about
6 years ago, I tested the tool with AMP PIDG terminals
on tefzel wire and found the combination adequate. About
a year ago, I got some samples of terminals from JST in
Japan. These are mil-qualified but when tested with the
tool I sold, produced results I didn't want to sell.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/JST_Samples.jpg
The upper terminal was a JST, the lower is AMP PIDG.
I was disappointed because the JST terminals were about
half the cost of PIDG . . .
The idea behind the shop notes at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html
was to reinforce the simple ideas about successful
terminal installation. Unless you're using tools mated
to terminal by the same manufacturer, it's a good idea to
be treat the combination with suspicion until you confirm
that the terminals, tool and wire are suited for the
task. It's not difficult if you take time to understand
what's needed.
Bob . . .
---
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Shielded magneto wires - Z Figures |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
> > > aha! excellent data point. This almost always points to
> > > a ground loop. You have more than one ground for avionics/audio
> > > equipment that's reading high current ground returns for high
> > > current equipment like landing lights, pitot heat, etc.
> > >
> > Hello Bob,
> >
> > interesting, I followed the recommendation and grounded each and every
> > equipment to the single 48-tab ground block from B&C, but my panel is
metal
> > and the avionics rack are directly screwed onto the aluminum as well as
the
> > whole panel is hinged on the metal cage, I added a separate ground from
the
> > tab block to the panel but no change. The Battery is connected with a
2AWG
> > cable to the ground tab, on the other side of the firewall a braided
cable
> > is going to the engine crankcase.
> >
> > As told the noise is very low and maybe only audible to me because of
the
> > ANR headset.
> >
>
> Are both Mags grounded to the ground block as well?
Hello Walter,
as I'm using a Lasar Ignition the game is a tad different, the Ignition Box
is grounded to the block as well as the magneto wires coming from the box
via the magneto/starter switch.
Werner
Message 28
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
> ... a simple pad ...
For the benefit of the clueless (me), what are we talking about here?
Thanks,
Doug Windhorn
Message 29
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron Koyich" <Ron@Koyich.com>
>>> ... a simple pad ...<<
A resistive attenuator which 'pads down' the signal.
See: http://www.mcsquared.com/dbframe.htm for instance.
REK
Message 30
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| Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
DNA: do not archive
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Lister,
Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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