Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:43 AM - Re: Hangar vs Hanger (Jeremy Davey)
2. 06:08 AM - Re: Breaker spacing & terminals (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:12 AM - Re: Re: Radio noise capacitor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:19 AM - Re: Intercom harness (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 06:30 AM - Re: Breaker spacing & terminals (Eric M. Jones)
6. 09:20 AM - Re: Intercom harness ()
7. 10:46 AM - Re: Intercom harness (Paul McAllister)
8. 01:43 PM - Re: Re: Radio noise capacitor (Wayne Williams)
9. 02:26 PM - Education ()
10. 07:51 PM - Re: Aircraft Wiring for Smart People (DonVS)
11. 08:30 PM - King KN53 Coax wiring - J531, J533 Question (DonEavesRV6)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Hangar vs Hanger |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
:-) But I'm building a Europa - 200,000 glass strings in formation instead
of 20,000 rivets in formation :-)
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Tail done
Standard XS wings with mods underway
CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
1200 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Ritter
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Hangar vs Hanger
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509@msn.com>
OUCH. Had a feeling it was a mistake hitting the send button on this one.
Try relaxing a bit and pound some rivets.
Do not archive.
From: "Jeremy Davey" EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Hangar vs Hanger
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com
Sorry to be pedantic, but at present it's the Queen's English. We revert to
the King's English when Charlie takes over from Liz.
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Tail done
Standard XS wings with mods underway
CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
1200 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Ritter
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Hangar vs Hanger
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Ritter" mritter509@msn.com
I just hate it when I mess up the King's english.
Do Not Archive
From: "Greg Young" gyoung@cs-sol.com
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Hangar vs Hanger
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Greg Young" gyoung@cs-sol.com
WHAT? No railing about to, too, two or their, there, they're or you, your,
you're or will, well or...(insert pet peeve here)... Your obviously not
totally over the edge. In you're lucid moments try to remember the "do not
archive" since that drives others insane two8-)
Greg
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hangar vs Hanger
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
Please guys.I'm going insane.
A hangar is a place you build and park an aircraft.
A hanger is something you store clothes on.
Sorry if I sound anal.Insanity does that to one.
Stan Sutterfield
Tampa
www.rv-8a.net
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Breaker spacing & terminals |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:11 AM 9/13/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <danobrien@cox.net>
>
>I managed to cut breaker holes that make my breakers quite close to each
>other vertically. Two questions:
>
>1. Is there an accepted minimum distance between the bus bar line of one
>breaker and the terminal line of the breaker below it? Mine's less than
>an eighth of an inch in some places.
This would make some bureaucrats nervous . . . especially those
who make a career of crafting "accepted practices". The real
question is, do you perceive any probability that two conductors
will come together that shouldn't. If the mechanical system is
rigid enough, then .001" guaranteed clearance is enough (this gap
will stand off about 1000 volts). If you cannot guarantee separation
either by design or analysis, then a suitable barrier is in order
which can take the form of more airgap (spacing) or a strip of sheet
insulating material like fiberglas or phenolic.
>2. The Klixon breakers are designed to accept ring terminals, although it
>looks like the tabs would accept fast ons. Fast ons would give me a bit
>more space (since they eliminate the screw heads. Could fast ons be used,
>or would that be a no no?
Please don't do this. Connector technologies like fast-ons have
performance characteristics that can be assured only when you
use them per manufacturer's recommendations. There is a lot
of risk charging off in some unadvertised direction without
checking it out carefully yourself or getting the advice of
the manufacturer. If you want to use fast-ons with breakers,
then there are breakers that are fitted with fast-on tabs.
Otherwise, my best recommendation is that you use the threaded
fastener technologies for which the breakers were designed.
Bob . . .
---
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Radio noise capacitor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:44 AM 9/13/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Williams"
><rwayne@gamewood.net>
>
> >I have some radio noise and think it is coming from my alternator (B&C
> >40amp)or electronic ignition (Laser). Someone suggested a noise capacitor
>on
> >the alternator. Any ideas where to get something like that and whether it
>is
> >likely to help? Thanks! Wayne
>
>Wayne,
>
>I would like to ask if the noise suddenly appeared or if this has been
>installation?
>
>Some noise filtering may be good, but make sure it doesn't cover up
>something that needs fixing---such as worn out plug wires, some high voltage
>leaking to ground, or another capacitor that has failed. This needs to be
>investigated before throwing parts at it.
EXACTLY! Suggest you acquire a copy of the 'Connection and
check out the chapter on noise. It appears that you have yet
to identify the antagonist for sure. You also need to know
who the victim is . . . just because you hear something in the
headphones doesn't tell you if it's coming in through one radio,
all radios, the intercom, or possibly a ground-loop induced noise
for which there is NO filter large enough to fix.
As the star in Short Circuit would say, "you need input".
Bob . . .
---
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Intercom harness |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:12 PM 9/13/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
>
>Hi Bob
>
>Several months ago you sent be a wiring diagram for 2 micorair 760's and
>an Xcom intercom. I was unable to get the combination to work so
>finally Xcom has agreed to refund my $$. I still need to connect the
>two coms to an intercom and it appears to me that the same circuitry
>will work with a PS engineering PM50l. Is that correct?
>
>I would prefer to use their PM1000 intercom though, and I haven't been
>able to figure out how to connect it to the two coms.
>
>Do you have any experience with them? The pinouts are on the PS
>engineering web page.
Hmmmm . . . I wish you had raised the problems with Xcom's
intercom on the list before returning it. There is no special
characteristic of an intercom that makes it uniquely qualified
(or un qualified) to work with one, two or ten radios.
Intercoms do not normally come equipped with audio isolation
amplifiers . . . mixing amplifiers that combine audio from
multiple sources such that the intercom is blissfully
unaware of the fact that there is more than one radio driving
the headset audio input. The diagrams I offered show a variety
of approaches to this task. Which page were you using of that
data package?
Did you get it wired up and found that it didn't work? What
were the symptoms? My guess is that until you craft a
successfully executable design, it's not going to matter
who's intercom you choose to try.
Bob . . .
---
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Breaker spacing & terminals |
0.00 ALL_CAPS_GUAR BODY: Contains word 'guarantee' in all-caps
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <danobrien@cox.net>
>1. Is there an accepted minimum distance between the bus bar line of one
breaker
and the terminal line of the breaker below it?
1/8 inch would be okay--assuming no flake of conductive material, moisture,
etc. ever got into the gap. It would make me nervous though if something
gets bent.
Suggestion: The bus bar does not have to be straight. Can it be "E" shaped
for example...can it be twisted? Can you insulate the busbar and/or the
terminal?
>2. Could Fastons be used?..........
Can you wrap the wire and solder it and insulate it?
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
Message 6
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| Subject: | Intercom harness |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
Thanks for the prompt reply Bob.
When I received the harness diagram (labled XCOM with two comm.) Xcom
had offered to make me a harness and I had ordered it. When it arrived,
it did not work. It took me quite a period of time and many requests to
finally receive a wiring diagram from them. Their diagram was
essentially the same as the one I got from you. I found several
errors including shorts, opens and incorrect connections. I attempted
to correct them and checking with an ohm meter showed it to be correct.
I sent the harness and intercom back to them and was derided for sloppy
work. They made a new one but I decided that 1 1/2 years was too much
delay and so I requested a refund as the intercom and harness have been
sent back.
Microair has offered to make a harness for the 2 coms and a PM1000. I
am still interested in making my own, however.
Thanks
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Intercom harness
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:12 PM 9/13/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
>
>Hi Bob
>
>Several months ago you sent be a wiring diagram for 2 micorair 760's
and
>an Xcom intercom. I was unable to get the combination to work so
>finally Xcom has agreed to refund my $$. I still need to connect the
>two coms to an intercom and it appears to me that the same circuitry
>will work with a PS engineering PM50l. Is that correct?
>
>I would prefer to use their PM1000 intercom though, and I haven't been
>able to figure out how to connect it to the two coms.
>
>Do you have any experience with them? The pinouts are on the PS
>engineering web page.
Hmmmm . . . I wish you had raised the problems with Xcom's
intercom on the list before returning it. There is no special
characteristic of an intercom that makes it uniquely qualified
(or un qualified) to work with one, two or ten radios.
Intercoms do not normally come equipped with audio isolation
amplifiers . . . mixing amplifiers that combine audio from
multiple sources such that the intercom is blissfully
unaware of the fact that there is more than one radio driving
the headset audio input. The diagrams I offered show a variety
of approaches to this task. Which page were you using of that
data package?
Did you get it wired up and found that it didn't work? What
were the symptoms? My guess is that until you craft a
successfully executable design, it's not going to matter
who's intercom you choose to try.
Bob . . .
---
==
==
==
==
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Intercom harness |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Tom,
I have an XCOM and it works a treat, luck of the draw I guess. I made my
own harness from their wring diagram because it needed to integrate into my
panel.
To be honest getting it to work took more effort than any of the other
avionics in my panel, I don't really know why, I think I was just making
more mistakes that day!
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: <beecho@beecho.org>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Intercom harness
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
>
> Thanks for the prompt reply Bob.
> When I received the harness diagram (labled XCOM with two comm.) Xcom
> had offered to make me a harness and I had ordered it. When it arrived,
> it did not work. It took me quite a period of time and many requests to
> finally receive a wiring diagram from them. Their diagram was
> essentially the same as the one I got from you. I found several
> errors including shorts, opens and incorrect connections. I attempted
> to correct them and checking with an ohm meter showed it to be correct.
> I sent the harness and intercom back to them and was derided for sloppy
> work. They made a new one but I decided that 1 1/2 years was too much
> delay and so I requested a refund as the intercom and harness have been
> sent back.
> Microair has offered to make a harness for the 2 coms and a PM1000. I
> am still interested in making my own, however.
> Thanks
> Tom
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Intercom harness
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 02:12 PM 9/13/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
> >
> >Hi Bob
> >
> >Several months ago you sent be a wiring diagram for 2 micorair 760's
> and
> >an Xcom intercom. I was unable to get the combination to work so
> >finally Xcom has agreed to refund my $$. I still need to connect the
> >two coms to an intercom and it appears to me that the same circuitry
> >will work with a PS engineering PM50l. Is that correct?
> >
> >I would prefer to use their PM1000 intercom though, and I haven't been
> >able to figure out how to connect it to the two coms.
> >
> >Do you have any experience with them? The pinouts are on the PS
> >engineering web page.
>
> Hmmmm . . . I wish you had raised the problems with Xcom's
> intercom on the list before returning it. There is no special
> characteristic of an intercom that makes it uniquely qualified
> (or un qualified) to work with one, two or ten radios.
>
> Intercoms do not normally come equipped with audio isolation
> amplifiers . . . mixing amplifiers that combine audio from
> multiple sources such that the intercom is blissfully
> unaware of the fact that there is more than one radio driving
> the headset audio input. The diagrams I offered show a variety
> of approaches to this task. Which page were you using of that
> data package?
>
> Did you get it wired up and found that it didn't work? What
> were the symptoms? My guess is that until you craft a
> successfully executable design, it's not going to matter
> who's intercom you choose to try.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ---
>
>
> ==
> ==
> ==
> ==
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Re: Radio noise capacitor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Williams" <rwayne@gamewood.net>
Eric:
Excellent point. It has been present since installation.
Wayne
Wayne,
I would like to ask if the noise suddenly appeared or if this has been
installation?
Some noise filtering may be good, but make sure it doesn't cover up
something that needs fixing---such as worn out plug wires, some high voltage
leaking to ground, or another capacitor that has failed. This needs to be
investigated before throwing parts at it.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
Message 9
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
9/14/2004
Hello Bob Nuckolls, Just sort of in passing twice recently you reminded me of an
issue of some interest to me. The issue is how and where can we learn what is
already so obvious (to others) that they assume it is common knowledge to all.
Purveyors of some materials and tools in our community ship these items out
without the slightest attempt to inform the buyer how to use them.
The first instance was when you posted this web site page in response to a voltage regulator question <http://bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?26X358218>.
When scrolling through that page I came to the Dynon EFIS D-10 Kit. The crimper
(for machined D sub pins) and the red and white plastic handled pin insert /
extract tool in that kit reminded me that I had recently purchased similar items
and then fumbled for a period of trial and error while figuring out how they
were supposed to work.
The second instance was when you posted this web site in response to a question on proper connector pins for MS3471W8-33S (Aero 9903) connectors. <<http://www.ittcannon.com/media/pdf/catalogs/PV_TBF.pdf>>
When I went to that site some of my questions were answered, but others were raised.
Can you please provide a brief simplistic nuts and bolts tutorial, or steer us
to one, on the subject of stripping, crimping, inserting and extracting the commonly
available machined pins for the commonly available D sub connectors?
Some questions still remaining that come to mind:
1) What about this depth of pin insertion into the crimping tool issue?
2) How does one assure himself that the pins and tool that he has on hand are compatible
with regard to pin insertion depth?
3) Is there, should there be, any user tool adjustment in regard to depth of pin
insertion?
4) Proper wire stripping length is determined by?
5) What about wire gage, pin, and tool compatibility? A friend has a tool that
wont properly crimp 24 AWG wire in the pins that he has. My tool properly crimps
26 AWG wire in the pins that I have.
6) What about the crimpers that make eight indentations into the pins rather than
just four? Superior? Essential? Where available?
7) What is the story on the color bands on the pins? Pure decoration or are they
trying to convey some important information to me?
8) Is there just one size of pins for all sizes of wire for these commonly used
D sub connectors?
9) What is the largest and smallest size of wire that one should expect to be able
to use in these pins and connectors?
10) About that red and white insert / tool Are the two ends different? If so how
are they different and how are they to be used?
11) If I buy, say 9 pin D sub connectors, from one seller to our community and
then later buy some from another seller should I expect the connectors to be compatible
with each other?
There are probably other use issues that you are aware of that could benefit many
of us. I apologize for asking such elementary questions sort of like asking
for directions on how to use an axe or a hammer, but even my grandson, who is
undoubtedly one of the brightest kids in the state, needs guidance on using
those two tools from time to time.
Many thanks for your continued help.
OC
Message 10
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| Subject: | Aircraft Wiring for Smart People |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DonVS" <dsvs@comcast.net>
Bob,
I would like your opinion of this material as well. Thanks. Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Terry
Watson
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Wiring for Smart People
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Bob, others:
Greg Richter at Blue Mountain Avionics has just posted a short (24 page?)
booklet he has written for his customers. I haven't read it yet, but I like
Greg's attitude and I expect it to be very worthwhile. You might like to
have a look.
http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/download.php
Terry
RV-8A, Blue Mountain EFIS/one wiring still
Seattle
Message 11
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| Subject: | King KN53 Coax wiring - J531, J533 Question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DonEavesRV6" <DonEavesRV6@midsouth.rr.com>
King KN53 Coax wiring - J531, J533 Question:
I'm installing a King KN53 Nav in my flying RV6 and I need to know which coax connectors
(J531 and J533) is Glide Slop and which Localizer?
Thanks in advance -
Don Eaves RV6 Flying
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