---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 09/23/04: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:48 AM - Re: Re: B&C alternators (echristley@nc.rr.com) 2. 06:03 AM - Re: FCC treatise on RF exposure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 06:11 AM - Re: Whelen Strobes (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: 11615 Frank (CFrank@edony.com) 5. 07:30 AM - Re: Re: B&C alternators (cgalley) 6. 07:31 AM - Re: Unstable 20A generator system (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 07:33 AM - Re: Re: B&C alternators (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 08:06 AM - Re: FCC treatise on RF exposure (Paul Messinger) 9. 10:37 AM - Re: Vans VOR antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 03:10 PM - Re: Vans VOR antenna (Mickey Billings) 11. 03:31 PM - Re: Vans VOR antenna (Mickey Billings) 12. 06:28 PM - Re: Vans VOR antenna (Kevin Horton) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:51 AM PST US From: echristley@nc.rr.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: B&C alternators --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: echristley@nc.rr.com > by calling 316-283-8000 and ask for Todd. He'll answer all your > questions. B&C used to have a belt driven PM alternator that > drove from a split pulley off the prop shaft. That's gone. > All of B&C's PM alternators are spline or gear driven meaning > that you do a lot of modification to the commercial product > before it can bolt to an engine. > *$#fricker..frackin% & I'm using a rotary engine (Mazda 13B). Gear driven really isn't a choice. > only a 12A machine instead of the 20A generator > but plenty for day-vfr or even night-vfr if you Hmm... I was thinking that power requirements would be much greater (still a ways from running the actual numbers). What I'd really like to see is a stationary winding system with PM magnets bolted on in place of the drive shaft pulley. The shaft spins at 5000 to 6000rpm on the rotary. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:33 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FCC treatise on RF exposure --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:38 PM 9/22/2004 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" > >Cheers, > Can someone please repeat to me what the URL was? I copied same for >a radio group and promptly lost it . >Thanks, Ferg http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/pdf/8505046.pdf Also check out the directory at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/RF_Hazards and get the documents you find there. Bob . . . --- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:11 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Whelen Strobes --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:53 PM 9/22/2004 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bobby Hester > > >I read somewhere that cycling the strobe box is no longer needed. It is >still in the installation directions that it is not good for the box to >sit over a year without being cycled. I know I read somewhere that this >is no longer needed. I need documantation not just hear say. Thanks! In days gone by, critical characteristics of electrolytic capacitors used for flash-tube energy storage would degrade with age and disuse. A power supply that was stored inert for long periods of time (years) was best brought back to serviceable condition using an adjustable power supply and ramping up the voltage from some lower than nominal value over a period of several hours. This process was called "reforming". See: http://www.vcomp.co.uk/tech_tips/reform_caps/reform_caps.htm http://www.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/~reese/electrolytics/ http://www.dscc.dla.mil/Downloads/MilSpec/Docs/MIL-HDBK-1131/hb1131.pdf Modern electrolytic caps are not so afflicted and the recommendation has been dropped. Bob . . . --- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:56 AM PST US From: CFrank@edony.com Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: 11615 Frank --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: CFrank@edony.com Bob, Thank you very much for your response. Can I substitute a 35 amp regulator for a 20 amp regulator? I do have a spare 14V regulator on hand, but it is rated for 35 amps, not matching my 20 amp generator output. I suppose that this regulator will do the job, and will just regulate for maximum generator output, but I have been reluctant to try this out of fear of damaging something. Either way, whether going with an alternator system or replacing the voltage regulator, I will still need field approval. We'll see if Santa Claus has some spare change left over after Xmas for the B&C alternator you recommend. I have joined the list, and already am finding it worthwhile. Thank you again, Christopher Frank -----Original Message----- From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls@cox.net] Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 11615 Frank --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >Dear Bob, > >I own a 1946 Ercoupe 415C (or does it own me?). It turns a 20-amp Delco >generator. > >My ammeter is doing strange things lately, flickering full-scale between >+/- 30, calming down for a second or two, then goes back to >flickering. Do you have any idea what the cause of this could be? > >Regards, > >Christopher Frank This can be a variety of problems. Do you have a spare regulator? If you can substitute the regulator and get any significant change in behavior, then the regulator is the biggest suspect. You could have worn and poor function in brushes. This can be checked by observation. You can pull the generator and have it inspected and tested as a separate component. If it were my airplane, I'd trash the generator and regulator in favor of a PM alternator from B&C pictured here: http://bandc.biz/200gdesc.html This alternator has been installed on a ton of C-120/140 and aircraft with the -12 case on a C-85 or O-200 engine. B&C can probably help you with a 337. I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to share the information with as many folks as possible. A further benefit can be realized with membership on the list. There are lots of technically capable folks on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can join at . . . http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/ Thanks! Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( Knowing about a thing is different than ) ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) ( and still understand nothing. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:44 AM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: B&C alternators --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" Alternator on a Lycoming may spin 9,000 or more as many use a very small pulley on the alternator due to clearance problems. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: B&C alternators > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: echristley@nc.rr.com > > > > by calling 316-283-8000 and ask for Todd. He'll > answer all your > > questions. B&C used to have a belt driven PM > alternator that > > drove from a split pulley off the prop shaft. > That's gone. > > All of B&C's PM alternators are spline or gear > driven meaning > > that you do a lot of modification to the > commercial product > > before it can bolt to an engine. > > > > *$#fricker..frackin% > & > > I'm using a rotary engine (Mazda 13B). Gear driven > really isn't a choice. > > > only a 12A machine instead of the 20A generator > > but plenty for day-vfr or even night-vfr if you > > Hmm... > I was thinking that power requirements would be much > greater (still a ways from running the actual numbers). > > What I'd really like to see is a stationary winding > system with PM magnets bolted on in place of the > drive shaft pulley. The shaft spins at 5000 to > 6000rpm on the rotary. > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:15 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Unstable 20A generator system --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 09:42 AM 9/23/2004 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: CFrank@edony.com > >Bob, > >Thank you very much for your response. > >Can I substitute a 35 amp regulator for a 20 amp regulator? I do have a >spare 14V regulator on hand, but it is rated for 35 amps, not matching my 20 >amp generator output. I suppose that this regulator will do the job, and >will just regulate for maximum generator output, but I have been reluctant >to try this out of fear of damaging something. > >Either way, whether going with an alternator system or replacing the voltage >regulator, I will still need field approval. We'll see if Santa Claus has >some spare change left over after Xmas for the B&C alternator you recommend. > >I have joined the list, and already am finding it worthwhile. Substitute the 35A regulator for a quick test to see if the system settles down. The 35A current limit is too large to run . . . if your 20A generator is good, the too-large current limit setting in the regulator will not protect the generator. However, the test would be useful to see if a different regulator makes the system behave better. Bob . . . --- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:53 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: B&C alternators --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:47 AM 9/23/2004 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: echristley@nc.rr.com > > > > by calling 316-283-8000 and ask for Todd. He'll >answer all your > > questions. B&C used to have a belt driven PM >alternator that > > drove from a split pulley off the prop shaft. >That's gone. > > All of B&C's PM alternators are spline or gear >driven meaning > > that you do a lot of modification to the >commercial product > > before it can bolt to an engine. > > > >*$#fricker..frackin% >& > >I'm using a rotary engine (Mazda 13B). Gear driven >really isn't a choice. Okay, there's dozens of PM alternators up to an including 30 or 35 amps that you can consider. Check out heavy duty lawn and garden tractor equipment. All of these will be belt driven. However, you may find it just as practical and lighter to go the automotive alternator route. A real wound-field alternator with 40 or so amps output is small, light, cheap, plentiful and probably easier to implement in your airplane than a fugitive from a garden tractor. Bob . . . --- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:57 AM PST US From: "Paul Messinger" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FCC treatise on RF exposure --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" Thanks Bob. For all you wanted to know (and more) on RF safety use the following link to many sources including the related FCC regulations http://www.arrl.org/news/rfsafety/ Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FCC treatise on RF exposure > > > http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/pdf/8505046.pdf > > Also check out the directory at: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/RF_Hazards > > and get the documents you find there. > > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:37:54 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Vans VOR antenna --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 02:56 PM 9/22/2004 -0700, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mickey Billings" > >Vans offers a VOR antenna for the wing tip. It consist of a strip of copper >foil, a bulkhead fitting and enough RG58 to wire the antenna. My question >is this, does anyone know if this antenna works as well as say the Bob >Archer antenna? And should I use RG400 in place of the RG58? 400/142 is always a better choice than 58 . . . there's 60 years difference in materials. It's doubtful that anyone can provide a useful comparison between the two antennas. It takes a concerted effort to make measurements required to make an engineering choice of one over the other. Buy the one most attractive to you and try it. The worst that can happen is that it doesn't meet your expectations and you'll have to go to "plan B" . . . Bob . . . --- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:15 PM PST US From: "Mickey Billings" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Vans VOR antenna --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mickey Billings" Great answer! And thank you for taking the time to answer. Mickey Billings N445BH ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Vans VOR antenna > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > At 02:56 PM 9/22/2004 -0700, you wrote: > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mickey Billings" > > > >Vans offers a VOR antenna for the wing tip. It consist of a strip of copper > >foil, a bulkhead fitting and enough RG58 to wire the antenna. My question > >is this, does anyone know if this antenna works as well as say the Bob > >Archer antenna? And should I use RG400 in place of the RG58? > > 400/142 is always a better choice than 58 . . . there's 60 years > difference in materials. > > It's doubtful that anyone can provide a useful comparison between > the two antennas. It takes a concerted effort to make measurements > required to make an engineering choice of one over the other. Buy > the one most attractive to you and try it. The worst that can > happen is that it doesn't meet your expectations and you'll have > to go to "plan B" . . . > > Bob . . . > > > --- > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:58 PM PST US From: "Mickey Billings" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Vans VOR antenna --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mickey Billings" Bob, I guess I do have another question. If I use the Archer antenna fiber glassed into the wing tip, where do I connect for a good ground plane? Mickey Billings N445BH ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Vans VOR antenna > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > At 02:56 PM 9/22/2004 -0700, you wrote: > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mickey Billings" > > > >Vans offers a VOR antenna for the wing tip. It consist of a strip of copper > >foil, a bulkhead fitting and enough RG58 to wire the antenna. My question > >is this, does anyone know if this antenna works as well as say the Bob > >Archer antenna? And should I use RG400 in place of the RG58? > > 400/142 is always a better choice than 58 . . . there's 60 years > difference in materials. > > It's doubtful that anyone can provide a useful comparison between > the two antennas. It takes a concerted effort to make measurements > required to make an engineering choice of one over the other. Buy > the one most attractive to you and try it. The worst that can > happen is that it doesn't meet your expectations and you'll have > to go to "plan B" . . . > > Bob . . . > > > --- > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:27 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Vans VOR antenna --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mickey Billings" > >Bob, I guess I do have another question. If I use the Archer antenna fiber >glassed into the wing tip, where do I connect for a good ground plane? > >Mickey Billings >N445BH > The Archer antenna is designed for aircraft with metal wings. The antenna is mounted where the wing tip is attached to the wing, so the wing skin acts as the ground plane. http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/sportcraft.htm -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/