Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:32 AM - stainless towel bar firewall penetrations (thomas a. sargent)
2. 12:53 AM - Re: stainless towel bar firewall penetrations (Werner Schneider)
3. 06:18 AM - Re: architecture drawings vs. wiring diagrams (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:31 AM - Re: Vans VOR antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 06:51 AM - Transponder antenna separation (Roger Evenson)
6. 07:57 AM - Re: Avionics-List: Transponder antenna separation (Doug McNutt)
7. 09:26 AM - Re: stainless towel bar firewall penetrations (thomas a. sargent)
8. 09:32 AM - Re: Strobe Head Failure (KeithHallsten)
9. 11:57 AM - Re: stainless towel bar firewall penetrations (Rob Housman)
10. 12:22 PM - How do you seal firesleeve? firewall penetrations (Ronald J. Parigoris)
11. 01:49 PM - Re: stainless towel bar firewall penetrations (John Schroeder)
12. 03:52 PM - Re: How do you seal firesleeve? firewall penetrations (Ken)
13. 05:51 PM - Re: How do you seal firesleeve? (Larry Bowen)
14. 05:52 PM - Re: stainless towel bar firewall penetrations (Kent Ashton)
15. 08:45 PM - Re: stainless towel bar firewall penetrations (David Carter)
Message 1
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| Subject: | stainless towel bar firewall penetrations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@earthlink.net>
Some time ago I read a great suggestion to use a stainless steel towel
bar or bathtub "grab bar" and cut off the ends a few inches away from
the flanges. These 90 deg. stainless tubes could then be screwed to the
fire wall on the engine side and be used to pass numerous wires thru the
firewall. Packed with fire resistant sealant, they sound like a safe way
to go.
But I can't find any reference in the archives to any one actually using
this method. Nor can I find Electric Bob weighing in on the
advisability of this technique.
How about it Bob? Do you think this is a good idea?
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, Landing gear fairings.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: stainless towel bar firewall penetrations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
Thomas, it's there on Bob's web page
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Firewall_Penetration/firewall.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@earthlink.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: stainless towel bar firewall penetrations
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent"
<sarg314@earthlink.net>
>
> Some time ago I read a great suggestion to use a stainless steel towel
> bar or bathtub "grab bar" and cut off the ends a few inches away from
> the flanges. These 90 deg. stainless tubes could then be screwed to the
> fire wall on the engine side and be used to pass numerous wires thru the
> firewall. Packed with fire resistant sealant, they sound like a safe way
> to go.
>
> But I can't find any reference in the archives to any one actually using
> this method. Nor can I find Electric Bob weighing in on the
> advisability of this technique.
>
> How about it Bob? Do you think this is a good idea?
>
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A, Landing gear fairings.
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: architecture drawings vs. wiring diagrams |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:57 AM 9/24/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>Now I'm mystified. When I called you, you told me to use Figure Z-16 for my
>Jabiru, which I did. I also understood you to say that I could use a 2-5
>toggle for a starter switch. I had no idea that the rectangle in Z-16
>repesented a keyswitch for starter, thus the confusion. Apparently I need 2
>2-5 toggles to replace the key switch.
Please keep in mind that the z-figures are illustrations of architecture
with features unique to certain engines and/or builder's missions for the
airplane. The first goal of a Z-figure is to illustrate how power is
managed and not necessarily detailed parts used to do it. They're sorta
like elevation views for constructing a building but without forcing
you into a fixed configuration of plumbing or light fixtures.
There are elements of the Z-figures that can be mixed and matched
between them. Ignition/starter switches are but one example. One may
choose to use the classic keyswitch with ANY of the z-figures. Or,
one might want to add a second battery to what's illustrated as a single-
battery system. One can use PM starters, wound field starters or
no starter.
Figure z-16's major feature centers on low power, permanent magnet
alternator driving a single battery for an engine that comes fitted
with that style of alternator.
You can use (1) single pole ignition switches and a push button,
(2) double pole, spring loaded switches and no push button -OR-
(3) the classic keyswitch . . . all of which are illustrated on
the various z-figures. I guess the thing I missed in recommending
Z-16 for your project was to include the idea that the other
z-figures illustrate features that you may find attractive and
can be incorporated as you see fit.
The chapter on switches goes to some lengths to describe the various
switch functions and how they're depicted schematically followed up
by examples scattered throughout the z-figures. This is why I was
surprised by your assertion that 2-5 switches were illustrated in
figure z-16 because as I've explained, there are no 2-5 switches
shown . . . However, figure Z-11 illustrates a technique for utilizing
a pair 2-5 switches as combination ignition/starter switches.
At one time, Chevrolet offered custom combinations of instruments
for the panel of popular cars. The variations on a theme generated
over 1500 configurations. The Chevy production lines were Fed-Xing
panel parts all over the country in an attempt to service all
the variables. If I tried to illustrate all the combinations of
features in the Z-figures, it would generate a document several
inches thick! This is why the 'Connection has 260 pages of
data preceding 15 pages power distribution diagrams. I have to
leave it up to the builder craft his/her own combination of
features . . . hopefully based upon the knowledge and understanding
of how they work.
Sorry if I contributed to your confusion.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Vans VOR antenna |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:37 AM 9/24/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mickey Billings" <mbilli@cox.net>
>
>Got it! So it appears the screws through the antenna into the sheet metal
>act as the contact to the ground plane, is that right? Also, it looks like
>the coax and the high voltage strobe wires run back through the wing
>together, does that cause noise in the headphones.
>
>Thanks for the reply!
>
>Mickey Billings
>N445BH RV7
Vor antennas on the wing tips are going to pick up noise
from the flash tubes . . . it's as sure a bet as standing
in the rain and expecting to get wet. This has nothing
to do with wire routing and proximity of coax to the strobe
bundle. The bright side is that you don't listen to VOR
except when talking to Center or Flight Watch utilizing
a VOR as a Remote Communications Outlet -OR- picking up
area weather broadcasts often offered over VOR stations.
If the "pops" are too annoying, one can always shut the
strobes off for the short duration of the task.
Bob . . .
---
Message 5
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| Subject: | Transponder antenna separation |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Roger Evenson" <revenson@comcast.net>
Garmin transponder install manual suggests 3' minimum between transponder antenna
and any other antenna, and also 3' minimum between transponder antenna and
transponder unit itself.
I don't have these ideals. I can locate the transponder antenna closer (than 3')
to the com antenna in order to be 3' from the transponder itself; or, I can
locate the transponder antenna closer to the transponder and maintain 3' between
the transponder antenna and the com antenna.
Having to compromise, is one criteria more important than the other?
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Avionics-List: Transponder antenna separation |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Doug McNutt <douglist@macnauchtan.com>
At 06:50 -0700 9/25/04, Roger Evenson wrote:
>--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Roger Evenson" <revenson@comcast.net>
>
>Garmin transponder install manual suggests 3' minimum between transponder antenna
and any other antenna, and also 3' minimum between transponder antenna and
transponder unit itself.
>
>I don't have these ideals. . . . .
Three feet of co-ax minimum between the panel unit and the antenna is probably
what they mean. A metal aircraft skin between antenna and panel unit is equivalent
to a whole lot of feet. Fiberglass, you say. Well you do need to provide
a metal ground plane for the antenna.
But two inch minimum radius of curvature for bent co-ax, please. No tight little
knots.
--
--> The best programming tool is a soldering iron <--
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: stainless towel bar firewall penetrations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@earthlink.net>
Wener:
Well... yes. The article on Bob's web page looks like a towel bar, but
he doesn't say exactly what it is. The word "towel" does not appear in
the article. I know that he has said on the list that the commerical
plane manufacturers use something to pass thru the firewall that is
stainless and has that same shape. I was looking for Bob's comment on
specifically the Home Depot, plumbing supply products.
I should say you are probably right and there is virtually no
difference and the towel bar probably works just fine. I have one
actually, and if anything it looks like it's over built for this
application. Still I'd like to get some reports that it has actually
worked for some one and that Bob thinks the Home Depot product is safe.
Werner Schneider wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
>
> Thomas, it's there on Bob's web page
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Firewall_Penetration/firewall.html
>
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, Landing gear
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Strobe Head Failure |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "KeithHallsten" <KeithHallsten@quiknet.com>
The NOVA REG4-80 is a regulated power supply, advertised to put out a
constant 20 watts per flash tube, regardless of how many flash tubes are
connected or functioning, and regardless of any differences in inductance
between flash tube circuits. Therefore, I can only assume that there was
some pre-existing fault with that particular flash tube. I have heard that
surface contamination (fingerprints) on a flash tube can dramatically
shorten its life, but I don't know how significant that factor would be.
Maybe it just got bumped at some point.
I'm also planning to use a NOVA power supply to drive Whelen tip strobes, so
I'll be interested if you discover what the cause was. I haven't started
with the wiring of my Velocity project yet, but I have purchased the strobe
system.
Keith Hallsten
Roseville, CA
Subject: Re: Strobe Head Failure
From: Jerzy Krasinski (krasinski@provalue.net)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski
<krasinski@provalue.net>
Robert Whitaker wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Whitaker
<rmwhitaker@lanl.gov>
>
>
>I have a regulated NOVA power supply (REG4-80) driving three Whelen strobe
>heads on my RV-9A. The right wing strobe failed after approximately 3 hours
>use. The other two are working fine so far.
>
>I plugged another strobe head into the right wing and it worked ok, so its
>not a wiring or power supply failure. The power supply puts out 20 Watts
>(16.5 Joules) per channel, so I don't think I'm over driving the strobes.
>(can you under drive these things?)
>
>I spoke with Whelen tech. support. They were not interested in talking to
>me after they discovered that I was not using one of their power supplies.
>This is quite understandable.
>
>Therefore, I'm counting on the list to offer up it's wisdom and experience.
>
>So...what causes a strobe head to suffer infant mortality?
>
>Rob
>
>
Could be a production fault
.
Another possible reason might be too small inductance in the loop. Was
that the strobe with the shortest cable?
Jerzy
Message 9
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| Subject: | stainless towel bar firewall penetrations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Go to http://www.mcmaster.com/ and enter the search string "grab bar" then
select the item "ADA-compliant Type 404 Stainless Steel Grab Bar" which will
take you to catalog page 1842, and at the bottom of the page are several of
these, one of which should be suitable. I used the 1-1/2 inch diameter by
12 inch version (cut shorter of course) but that was because the Rotax 914
has a pair of connectors that would not fit through (and removal of the
connectors was not an attractive option) - I still had to split the bar on a
diameter and splice the pieces together to permit the connectors to pass
through the firewall (please request details off-list to anyone who wants
more information). For fitting into a tight spot I used the right angle end
but otherwise my installation is identical to Bob's recommended practice.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of thomas a.
sargent
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: stainless towel bar firewall penetrations
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent"
<sarg314@earthlink.net>
Wener:
Well... yes. The article on Bob's web page looks like a towel bar,
but
he doesn't say exactly what it is. The word "towel" does not appear in
the article. I know that he has said on the list that the commerical
plane manufacturers use something to pass thru the firewall that is
stainless and has that same shape. I was looking for Bob's comment on
specifically the Home Depot, plumbing supply products.
I should say you are probably right and there is virtually no
difference and the towel bar probably works just fine. I have one
actually, and if anything it looks like it's over built for this
application. Still I'd like to get some reports that it has actually
worked for some one and that Bob thinks the Home Depot product is safe.
Werner Schneider wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider"
<wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
>
> Thomas, it's there on Bob's web page
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Firewall_Penetration/firewall.html
>
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, Landing gear
Message 10
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| Subject: | How do you seal firesleeve? firewall penetrations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Reading how to article it says to use recommended sealant to Dope the edges to
prevent fraying
and moisture from getting in.
What is the recommended sealer, where can you get some?
thx.
ron parigoris
Europa XS monowheel
A-265
>
>
> Thomas, it's there on Bob's web page
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Firewall_Penetration/firewall.html
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: stainless towel bar firewall penetrations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Bob invented this technique/method!!! Check the archives.
> But I can't find any reference in the archives to any one actually using
> this method. Nor can I find Electric Bob weighing in on the
> advisability of this technique.
>
> How about it Bob? Do you think this is a good idea?
>
--
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: How do you seal firesleeve? firewall penetrations |
on juliet
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Keeping it simple, I used red rtv silicone.
Ken
Ronald J. Parigoris wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
>Reading how to article it says to use recommended sealant to Dope the edges to
prevent fraying
>and moisture from getting in.
>
>What is the recommended sealer, where can you get some?
>
>thx.
>ron parigoris
>Europa XS monowheel
>A-265
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | How do you seal firesleeve? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I used red RTV thinned with MEK. Turned out really nice. Check this link:
http://bowenaero.com/copper/displayimage.php?album=13&pos=29
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How do you seal firesleeve?
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris"
> >
> >Reading how to article it says to use recommended sealant to
> Dope the
> >edges to prevent fraying and moisture from getting in.
> >
> >What is the recommended sealer, where can you get some?
> >
> >thx.
> >ron parigoris
> >Europa XS monowheel
> >A-265
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: stainless towel bar firewall penetrations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kent Ashton <kjashton@vnet.net>
Tom,
Stainless is heavy! Probably three-four times heavier than required.
Those ounces add up. It works fine to drill a about a 1 1/4 inch hole, pass
through all the wires and use a piece of automotive hose or grommet to stop
the wires from rubbing against the firewall metal. when all your wiring
seems good, caulk the hole with fire resistant caulk. Light, cheap,
effective.
Tony Bingelis' books have how-tos discussing how to make light firewall
pass-throughs a bit more elegant.
--Kent
> From: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@earthlink.net>
> Reply-To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 00:32:01 -0700
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: stainless towel bar firewall penetrations
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent"
> <sarg314@earthlink.net>
>
> Some time ago I read a great suggestion to use a stainless steel towel
> bar or bathtub "grab bar" and cut off the ends a few inches away from
> the flanges. These 90 deg. stainless tubes could then be screwed to the
> fire wall on the engine side and be used to pass numerous wires thru the
> firewall. Packed with fire resistant sealant, they sound like a safe way
> to go.
>
> But I can't find any reference in the archives to any one actually using
> this method. Nor can I find Electric Bob weighing in on the
> advisability of this technique.
>
> How about it Bob? Do you think this is a good idea?
>
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A, Landing gear fairings.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: stainless towel bar firewall penetrations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
I seriously disagree with Ken't post and will be happy to discuss it off the
list - personal, direct e-mails. I hope no one does what he suggests, which
is not safe and which has been superceded by better methods than Bingelis
had knowledge of. The small chunk of stainless tubing is not a
significantly heavy item.
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kent Ashton" <kjashton@vnet.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: stainless towel bar firewall penetrations
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kent Ashton <kjashton@vnet.net>
>
> Tom,
> Stainless is heavy! Probably three-four times heavier than required.
> Those ounces add up. It works fine to drill a about a 1 1/4 inch hole,
pass
> through all the wires and use a piece of automotive hose or grommet to
stop
> the wires from rubbing against the firewall metal. when all your wiring
> seems good, caulk the hole with fire resistant caulk. Light, cheap,
> effective.
> Tony Bingelis' books have how-tos discussing how to make light
firewall
> pass-throughs a bit more elegant.
> --Kent
>
> > From: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@earthlink.net>
> > Reply-To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 00:32:01 -0700
> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: stainless towel bar firewall penetrations
> >
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent"
> > <sarg314@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Some time ago I read a great suggestion to use a stainless steel towel
> > bar or bathtub "grab bar" and cut off the ends a few inches away from
> > the flanges. These 90 deg. stainless tubes could then be screwed to the
> > fire wall on the engine side and be used to pass numerous wires thru the
> > firewall. Packed with fire resistant sealant, they sound like a safe way
> > to go.
> >
> > But I can't find any reference in the archives to any one actually using
> > this method. Nor can I find Electric Bob weighing in on the
> > advisability of this technique.
> >
> > How about it Bob? Do you think this is a good idea?
> >
> > --
> > Tom Sargent, RV-6A, Landing gear fairings.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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