Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:40 AM - EAA press release (Mark C. Milgrom)
2. 05:17 AM - Re: Mic and Headphone Wiring (Bill Maxwell)
3. 06:07 AM - Re: Starter vs Master contactor (Chris Horsten)
4. 06:48 AM - Re: Starter vs Master contactor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 06:56 AM - Re: EAA press release (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 07:18 AM - F39 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 07:22 AM - Subject: Main Bus Voltage (Eric M. Jones)
8. 07:36 AM - Re: Hat switch (echristley@nc.rr.com)
9. 08:03 AM - Re: Fuse block connections (Paul Messinger)
10. 08:05 AM - Re: Hat switch (Bob Kuc)
11. 08:18 AM - Re: F39 (Matt Prather)
12. 08:43 AM - Re: Main Buss Voltage (DAVID REEL)
13. 08:44 AM - Re: Main Buss Voltage (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 09:37 AM - Re: F39 (Rob Housman)
15. 10:03 AM - Re: Main Buss Voltage (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 11:27 AM - very basic magneto info (thomas a. sargent)
17. 11:37 AM - Re: Hat switch (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
18. 01:34 PM - Re: very basic magneto info (cgalley)
19. 01:46 PM - Re: Starter vs Master contactor (Chris Horsten)
20. 02:08 PM - Lamar Overvoltage Relay (Chris Horsten)
21. 02:24 PM - Re: very basic magneto info (Matt Prather)
22. 02:26 PM - Re: Hat switch (echristley@nc.rr.com)
23. 03:42 PM - Re: Hat switch (Bob Kuc)
24. 11:34 PM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | EAA press release |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark C. Milgrom" <milgrom@earthlink.net>
Yesterday EAA issued an interesting press release:
"September 30, 2004 - On behalf of EAA's Government Programs office and
EAA's Vintage Aircraft Association, VAA Executive Director H.G.
Frautschy joined nearly two-dozen other members of ASTM Committee F39
for their first official meeting. The committee, composed of
representatives of manufacturers, end users, aviation technicians, and
other interested aviation organizations including the EAA, VAA, AOPA and
Aircraft Electronics Association, has been convened to help create,
under the auspices of ASTM International, a set of new standards for
general aviation electrical wiring system design, fabrication,
modification, inspection, and maintenance procedures and processes.
Continued airworthiness standards will also be addressed, as standard
F39 will become "acceptable data" to the FAA. It will be a manual
accepted by the FAA for use by aviation technicians to maintain general
aviation aircraft."
See: http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/040930_wiring.html
and: http://www.astm.org/COMMIT/F39
Mark Milgrom
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Mic and Headphone Wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigpond.com>
Always shield audio cables in any radio transmitter application Dave and
ideally, use separately shielded phone and mic cables.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clinchy, Dave" <clinchd@losrios.edu>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mic and Headphone Wiring
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Clinchy, Dave"
<clinchd@losrios.edu>
>
> Hi All,
>
>
> Should the mic and headphone wiring from the intercom to the jacks be in
> shielded cable? If so, can both the mic and headphone wires be in the
> same cable or should they each have their own shielded cable?
>
>
> The manual for my SL-30 nav/com shows separate shielded cable for the
> mic and headphone from the com to the intercom, but the instructions for
> my Flightcom 403 intercom do not show any shielded cable for the mic or
> headphone from intercom to jacks.
>
>
> Dave Clinchy
>
> RV 7
>
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Starter vs Master contactor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris Horsten" <airplanes@sympatico.ca>
Thanks Bob,
I'm bringing my meter out to the airport this morning to see if I can get a
reading. I take it that the measurement is to be made across the two big
terminals while the solenoid is engaged (but obviously with no power running
through it other than to energize)?
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Starter vs Master contactor
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
--> <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:59 PM 9/30/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris Horsten"
><airplanes@sympatico.ca>
>
>I'm just getting ready to put back the master and starter solenoids
>into my Zenith and find that I cannot tell which one is the continuous
>duty and which is the other. I have a new four terminal one I am going
>to use for the starter, and two 3 terminal ones. I can't figure out
>which is the continuous duty. Is there any way to tell?
>
>Thanks
>Chris H
>Zenair CH-300
Continuous duty contactors have a coil resistance on the order of
10-18 ohms, intermittant duty contactors have coil resistance
on the order of 3-5 ohms.
Bob . . .
---
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Starter vs Master contactor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:06 AM 10/1/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris Horsten"
><airplanes@sympatico.ca>
>
>Thanks Bob,
>
>I'm bringing my meter out to the airport this morning to see if I can get a
>reading. I take it that the measurement is to be made across the two big
>terminals while the solenoid is engaged (but obviously with no power running
>through it other than to energize)?
>
>Chris
No, you measure the COIL resistance, not CONTACT resistance.
Hook the ohmmeter to the same terminals that would energize the
contactor. Alternatively, if you have a metered power supply,
use it to energize the contactor and read the current. CD
contactors draw about an amp, ID contactors will be 3 to 5 amps.
Bob . . .
---
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: EAA press release |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:39 AM 10/1/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark C. Milgrom"
><milgrom@earthlink.net>
>
>Yesterday EAA issued an interesting press release:
>
>"September 30, 2004 - On behalf of EAA's Government Programs office and
>EAA's Vintage Aircraft Association, VAA Executive Director H.G.
>Frautschy joined nearly two-dozen other members of ASTM Committee F39
>for their first official meeting. The committee, composed of
>representatives of manufacturers, end users, aviation technicians, and
>other interested aviation organizations including the EAA, VAA, AOPA and
>Aircraft Electronics Association, has been convened to help create,
>under the auspices of ASTM International, a set of new standards for
>general aviation electrical wiring system design, fabrication,
>modification, inspection, and maintenance procedures and processes.
>Continued airworthiness standards will also be addressed, as standard
>F39 will become "acceptable data" to the FAA. It will be a manual
>accepted by the FAA for use by aviation technicians to maintain general
>aviation aircraft."
>
>See: http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/040930_wiring.html
>
>and: http://www.astm.org/COMMIT/F39
Interesting. You'd think that an upgrade of AC43-13 would do the
job . . . the last upgrade was pretty lame. But then, since
out-sourcing is the buzz-phrase of the decade, pushing this
'critical' task off onto a non-government agency may a good thing.
It will be interesting to see if our non-government rule makers
can do any better than the government types.
I looked into joining the effort and the first thing that
hits you is a fee for becoming a member. That's the first
indication that someone is more focused on policies and
procedures than on experience and common sense. I'll have
to see if Raytheon is participating in this activity. Maybe
they'll see value in buying me a membership.
Thanks for the head's up on this Mark. I'll keep the list
apprised of what I find out.
Bob . . .
---
Message 6
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
Dear Pat,
By way of introduction, I'm a Sr. Engineer/Subject Matter Expert for
Raytheon Aircraft. I've been professionally involved in aircraft systems
maintenance, design and fabrication for over 40 years. I publish
a book for the owner built and maintained aircraft community called
the "AeroElectric Connection". This book has been in print for about
15 years and has sold in excess of 10,000 copies. I also moderate
a discussion group on electrical avionics issues called the
AeroElectric-List on matronics.com I maintain a website at
http://www.aeroelectric.com
I present 6-10 weekend seminars every year for the OBAM aircraft
community . . . in fact, I have a seminar to deliver in St. Louis
tomorrow and I took time out from packing to drop you this note.
I would be interested in participating in discussions on F39 but
I note that a fee for membership is required. People usually
pay me for picking my brain. I'm not accustomed to paying for
the privilege of giving away access to my experience.
May I suggest that there are many resources that ASTM could
tap in the quest for doing a good job on F39 . . . but allow
me to caution, folks that PURCHASE access to participation
may have business interests to consider. The people you're really
looking for are teachers with hands-on experience in either
the maintenance or engineering professions. The best bets
will have experience in both.
These may or may not be found among the ranks of those
who are willing to pay for memberships on committees crafting
regulatory documents.
I wish you well in this endeavor. May I suggest that you'll
need a real paradigm shift in how your efforts move forward if
you are to avoid a risk of becoming no better than the
FAA. The electrical section of FAA AC43-13 has been held
up as the standard of performance in electrical system repair
for decades. It's a sorry teaching document.
Let me know if I can help.
Bob Nuckolls
---
Message 7
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| Subject: | Subject: Main Bus Voltage |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
(do not archive)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
>When I power up the essential buss alone, I measure 1/2 volt on the main
buss.
>Checking the wiring of the Radio Shack 276-1185 rectifier per Z11, it looks
OK.
>I was under the impression 0 volts would be obtained. Is this right or is
>the rectifier faulty? If right, won't there be some power drain if lights
or
>other main buss things are left on during essential buss operation?
>Dave Reel - RV8A
This comes up occasionally.
>I was under the impression 0 volts would be obtained.
That's not quite so. The easy answer is not to make the measurement.
Measuring stray voltages (they are everywhere) will drive you nuts. You can
easily convince yourself of this by measuring the voltage of things that
aren't connected with each other by big bars of copper.
Buy my Schottky.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: echristley@nc.rr.com
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D.
Heath"
> <alto_q@direcway.com>
> Another alternative you might want to look at is here
> http://www.chproducts.com/retail/CS.htm
>
> If it even comes close to the quality of their
joysticks used for
> gaming,
> You will be more than
> satisfied.
>
The problem is, all I really need is the hat switch.
I already have the grip. See:
http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Pictures/StickGrip1.jpg
http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Pictures/StickGrip2.jpg
I have varnished it yet, but it's basically done
except for the electric trim control button.
I think that I now have a plan though.
I stopped by Best Buy to try the switches on a
variety of joysticks. They were all basically the
same and somewhat iffy, in that they didn't have
much travel and the actuation forces were low. The
cheapest one with a hat switch was around $25. Kinda
pricey for something that is you've already decided
is borderline unsuitable.
I'm going to first try the switch from Mouser that
Richard provided a link for. It's only $2, so there
is no way I can loose much. The problem will be
knocking together some way to support the leads on
the suface mount device. This will take some
creativity, so if anyone has a good idea of how to
do this please make yourself heard.
Mouser offers the switch with gold or silver
contacts, with the silver offering both a wider
voltage and current operational range. What is the
drawback to silver contacts?
If that proves to be a bust, the next step will be
to fork out the $50 for the 'real thing'. I've
already determined that it will fit (Ray Allen's
website has an engineering drawing), but not having
any experience with the switches I don't know if
I'll like their tactile feedback any better than the
cheap ones.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuse block connections |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuse block connections
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
> >The Fast-on PIDG terminals are 10X-100X higher force. In fact they
> >require mechanical assisted grip to separate.
>
> Force is not the same as pressure. It's pressure that sets electrical
> integrity of the connection. There are millions of vehicles using
> similar if not identical connections.
I agree, but in this case extraction force directly relates to pressure as
the contact area and type are very similar.
And yes I did try pulling the fuse out of my wife's import auto. The force
and contact marks on the fuse was much higher. Also the contacts were solid
and not loose as in the Buss products (I have several models all with the
same very low forces and loose contacts.) Thus based on a tiny sample the
aftermarket BUSS fuse holders are NOT nearly as good as the production auto
fuse holders.
I needed the fuse extractor on the auto vs. simple fingers on the BUSS
product. The marks on the auto fuse indicate much higher contact force
similar to the highly recommended fast-on lugs.
If we were talking about fast-on terminals, I suspect you would judge the
(fuse holder) contact force unacceptable.
I will not consider nor recommend fuse holders of the types I have from
BUSS.
A system is only as good as its weakest link and I feel the BUSS fuse
holders commonly available, not ready for aircraft use. The fuse holder on
the import was fine in my judgment, just not as handy in size.
Making a fuse holder from female fast-on's and pcb material would provide
the required gas tight contact.
Paul
Message 10
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1@tampabay.rr.com>
If you look at the CH products site, you will see that they sell the 4 way
switch of $2.00 and it is not surface mount. They do not list the hat for
sale. Maybe the mouse hat will fit it.
http://www.chproducts.com/shop/parts.html
Better thatn trying to get the surface mount to work.
> > http://www.chproducts.com/retail/CS.htm
> >
> > If it even comes close to the quality of their
> joysticks used for
> > gaming,
> > You will be more than
> > satisfied.
> >
>
> The problem is, all I really need is the hat switch.
> I already have the grip. See:
>
>
> I think that I now have a plan though.
>
> I stopped by Best Buy to try the switches on a
> variety of joysticks. They were all basically the
> same and somewhat iffy, in that they didn't have
> much travel and the actuation forces were low. The
> cheapest one with a hat switch was around $25. Kinda
> pricey for something that is you've already decided
> is borderline unsuitable.
>
> I'm going to first try the switch from Mouser that
> Richard provided a link for. It's only $2, so there
> is no way I can loose much. The problem will be
> knocking together some way to support the leads on
> the suface mount device. This will take some
> creativity, so if anyone has a good idea of how to
> do this please make yourself heard.
>
> Mouser offers the switch with gold or silver
> contacts, with the silver offering both a wider
> voltage and current operational range. What is the
> drawback to silver contacts?
>
> If that proves to be a bust, the next step will be
> to fork out the $50 for the 'real thing'. I've
> already determined that it will fit (Ray Allen's
> website has an engineering drawing), but not having
> any experience with the switches I don't know if
> I'll like their tactile feedback any better than the
> cheap ones.
>
>
Message 11
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Hi Bob,
Please keep us posted on what happens with this.
Thanks and regards,
Matt-
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> Dear Pat,
>
> By way of introduction, I'm a Sr. Engineer/Subject Matter Expert for
> Raytheon Aircraft. I've been professionally involved in aircraft systems
> maintenance, design and fabrication for over 40 years. I publish
> a book for the owner built and maintained aircraft community called the
snip
>
> Let me know if I can help.
>
> Bob Nuckolls
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Main Buss Voltage |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
When I power up the essential buss alone, I measure 1/2 volt on the main buss.
Checking the wiring of the Radio Shack 276-1185 rectifier per Z11, it looks
OK.
I was under the impression 0 volts would be obtained. Is this right or is
the rectifier faulty? If right, won't there be some power drain if lights
or
other main buss things are left on during essential buss operation?
I'm in the power distribution wiring stage so no loads were connected to the main
or the essential buss when these measurements were made. Following Matt Prather's
suggestion, I connected a 10 ohm resistor between the main buss and ground.
Now I measure 0 volts and 0 mA on the main buss. So the rectifier seems
to be working & I can only conclude that the 1/2 volt that appeared on the main
buss was somehow just due to letting the buss float, without any load.
Dave Reel - RV8A
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Main Buss Voltage |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:59 PM 9/30/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
>
>When I power up the essential buss alone, I measure 1/2 volt on the main
>buss. Checking the wiring of the Radio Shack 276-1185 rectifier per Z11,
>it looks OK. I was under the impression 0 volts would be obtained. Is
>this right or is the rectifier faulty? If right, won't there be some
>power drain if lights or other main buss things are left on during
>essential buss operation?
What items on the main bus are turned ON while you're making this
measurement? Most digital voltmeters have an input impedance of 10,000,000
ohms. So to get the instrument to read 0.5 volts, you'll need a current
source of 50 nanoamperes . . . which is about 1,000th the EXPECTED
leakage in power rectifier diodes.
Turn on the landing light on the main bus and the reading you'll get
will probably go to zero . . . but if you had the right voltmeter,
you could probably read the other case, 50 nanoamperes of current
flowing into say, 1 ohms of accessory load would produce a new
main bus voltage of 50 nanovolts. The .5 volt reading is also
suggestive of the minimum voltage for ANY solid state device
to begin conduction. We see this reading a LOT when chasing
sneak paths. For example, the leakage through the e-bus isolation
diode might me much more than 50 nanoamperes but some solid state
circuit like the inverter to run a modern T/C gyro motor may be
providing the solid-state-conduction threshold I mentioned above
and is behaving like a 0.5 volt zener biased up with normal leakage
through the e-bus isolation diode.
I suspect the readings you're seeing are entirely normal and
understandable when all the details are known. Put your multimeter
in the current mode and use it to see how much current flows
when you short the main bus to ground during e-bus only ops. This
will be a direct measurement at the leakage current which MAY
be coming in through the diode. It might be coming from some other
source.
I suspect it's nothing to be concerned about . . . but it would
be interesting and informative to search out and know all the
details.
Bob . . .
---
Message 14
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
In re: pay to play
You, Bob, should participate in setting standards by joining F39 and other
appropriate ASTM sub-committee(s). You are exactly the kind of member that
is required to make the system work as intended, and you may even be
eligible to participate without paying to play. To quote the ASTM Technical
Committee Officer Handbook (http://www.astm.org/COMMIT/RedBook4.rtf):
If a committee needs the expertise of an individual who cannot join the
Society, he or she may be given an affiliate membership by the executive
subcommittee. Affiliate members appear on the roster and may vote on
committee and Society matters but do not pay Society fees nor receive a free
volume of the Annual Book of ASTM Standards. The membership secretary
should submit the names of those approved for affiliate memberships to the
Member and Committee Services Department at ASTM. The Regulations require
that affiliate memberships be reviewed annually. An annual report on
affiliate members must be sent to the ASTM Member and Committee Services
Department with a copy to the staff manager. An affiliate membership is not
transferable. Each one must be handled individually by the committee
recommending affiliate status.
The ASTM regulations (which I will simplistically paraphrase) assure that no
committee may be dominated by manufacturers by limiting the producer side of
the committee's voting to not more than 50%, with the balance being
customers of those manufacturers, or other users of the products involved,
and general interest representation from government and academia. ASTM
specifications, recommended practices, etc., are truly "voluntary consensus
standards" with real emphasis on "voluntary" and "consensus."
Having been a member for several years of an unrelated (to aviation)
technical standards writing sub-committee I can assure you that the
producers' representatives (I was one) can not dictate to the non-producers,
and in fact the committee must consider all viewpoints in order to arrive at
a consensus. Without the votes of the non-producers there is no consensus,
and therefore no standard. My admittedly limited experience was with a
sub-committee lacking any real academic or government representation
(because of the nature of our business) so everyone had a business interest
(but often not the same interest, and even the producers did not always
agree amongst themselves) in the process and its results.
The real cost of participation is not ASTM's $75 annual membership fee but
the cost of travel to the committee meetings where the "give and take"
occurs in arriving at a consensus. But, individual members can (and do)
participate by submitting written comments for consideration by those in
attendance at committee meetings, and most importantly, written objections
must be considered when a draft is circulated to the membership for
balloting. All "objections" must be overcome in order to approve any
standard, which means that individual members in effect have veto power.
Details of how balloting works are at the same URL as shown above, starting
at page 51.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: F39
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
Dear Pat,
By way of introduction, I'm a Sr. Engineer/Subject Matter Expert for
Raytheon Aircraft. I've been professionally involved in aircraft systems
maintenance, design and fabrication for over 40 years. I publish
a book for the owner built and maintained aircraft community called
the "AeroElectric Connection". This book has been in print for about
15 years and has sold in excess of 10,000 copies. I also moderate
a discussion group on electrical avionics issues called the
AeroElectric-List on matronics.com I maintain a website at
http://www.aeroelectric.com
I present 6-10 weekend seminars every year for the OBAM aircraft
community . . . in fact, I have a seminar to deliver in St. Louis
tomorrow and I took time out from packing to drop you this note.
I would be interested in participating in discussions on F39 but
I note that a fee for membership is required. People usually
pay me for picking my brain. I'm not accustomed to paying for
the privilege of giving away access to my experience.
May I suggest that there are many resources that ASTM could
tap in the quest for doing a good job on F39 . . . but allow
me to caution, folks that PURCHASE access to participation
may have business interests to consider. The people you're really
looking for are teachers with hands-on experience in either
the maintenance or engineering professions. The best bets
will have experience in both.
These may or may not be found among the ranks of those
who are willing to pay for memberships on committees crafting
regulatory documents.
I wish you well in this endeavor. May I suggest that you'll
need a real paradigm shift in how your efforts move forward if
you are to avoid a risk of becoming no better than the
FAA. The electrical section of FAA AC43-13 has been held
up as the standard of performance in electrical system repair
for decades. It's a sorry teaching document.
Let me know if I can help.
Bob Nuckolls
---
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Main Buss Voltage |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:43 AM 10/1/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
>
> When I power up the essential buss alone, I measure 1/2 volt on the main
> buss.
> Checking the wiring of the Radio Shack 276-1185 rectifier per Z11,
> it looks OK.
> I was under the impression 0 volts would be obtained. Is this
> right or is
> the rectifier faulty? If right, won't there be some power drain if
> lights or
> other main buss things are left on during essential buss operation?
>
>I'm in the power distribution wiring stage so no loads were connected to
>the main or the essential buss when these measurements were
>made. Following Matt Prather's suggestion, I connected a 10 ohm resistor
>between the main buss and ground. Now I measure 0 volts and 0 mA on the
>main buss. So the rectifier seems to be working & I can only conclude
>that the 1/2 volt that appeared on the main buss was somehow just due to
>letting the buss float, without any load.
Voltage doesn't appear out of nowhere . . . every
potential difference is the byproduct of some energy
source. In this case, it was MOST likely normal leakage through
a perfectly good rectifier used to isolate two busses.
"Float" in this business implies a conductor with a very
high impedance connections to other conductors. Yeah,
meters will read some potential difference with respect
to other conductors. I can grab the probe tips of my multimeters
with the fingers and the readings will move upscale on
the AC setting. There's a 5KW am broadcast station about
1 mile from my house. It's a challenge to make sure that
some measurements on my workbench are not affected by
this particular source of energy.
Good question Dave. It's an often overlooked and seldom
well understood phenomenon.
Bob . . .
---
Message 16
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| Subject: | very basic magneto info |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@earthlink.net>
I must be missing the obvious here, but I have been searching for a
Slick magneto manual or schematic or *labeled* exploded diagram or
something that would identify the components I see when I look at my
4300 series slick mag. The Unison website doesn't seem very helpful nor
do random articles I've found posted on the web. A phone call placed to
Slick has gone unreturned.
I have a few REAL basic questions:
1- The mag has a stud which is obviously an electrical connection. I
take this to be the fabled "P-lead". Is this correct?
2- There is an fitting about the size of a quarter which has 6 or 8
small holes in it. I this some sort of vent?
3- There is a screw holding on what looks like a metal "cap" about the
size of a quarter. What is this? Is it an electrical connection?
4- When one grounds the P-lead, is it enough to connect the P-lead to
any system ground, or are there 2 electrical connections on the magneto
that are connected together to best achieve grounding?
... Feeling like I missed the memo ...
--
Tom Sargent
Message 17
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
You could use the two grey momentary switches for that, up/down? Very
easy to fly while pressing a button with the thumb, I use this setup for
the flight sims, and will be using it on my rv-10 as soon as I am done
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
RV8ter@aol.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hat switch
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
what i saw in the CH stick I didn't like was no momentary toggle switch
for flaps. :-(
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: very basic magneto info |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Answers are after your questions. I attached a drawing from the Slick Master
repair manual.
----- Original Message -----
From: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@earthlink.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: very basic magneto info
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent"
<sarg314@earthlink.net>
>
> I must be missing the obvious here, but I have been searching for a
> Slick magneto manual or schematic or *labeled* exploded diagram or
> something that would identify the components I see when I look at my
> 4300 series slick mag. The Unison website doesn't seem very helpful nor
> do random articles I've found posted on the web. A phone call placed to
> Slick has gone unreturned.
>
> I have a few REAL basic questions:
>
> 1- The mag has a stud which is obviously an electrical connection. I
> take this to be the fabled "P-lead". Is this correct? YES
>
> 2- There is an fitting about the size of a quarter which has 6 or 8
> small holes in it. I this some sort of vent? YES and it is the bottome
vent
>
> 3- There is a screw holding on what looks like a metal "cap" about the
> size of a quarter. What is this? Is it an electrical connection? Top
shielded vent
>
> 4- When one grounds the P-lead, is it enough to connect the P-lead to
> any system ground, or are there 2 electrical connections on the magneto
> that are connected together to best achieve grounding? Mag is already
connected to ground via the clamping to the engine. You only have to connect
the P lead to the frame of the airplane or engine.
>
> ... Feeling like I missed the memo ...
> --
> Tom Sargent
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Starter vs Master contactor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris Horsten" <airplanes@sympatico.ca>
Bob, Ken,
Thanks for the clarification. Got to my hangar, schematic in hand and
noticed that that's what I had to do. I was able to get a reading across the
small connector and the mount (ground) but not across the connector and
either of the large connectors on the three terminal variety. Even stranger,
I couldn't get any reading across my four terminal one which is brand new.
On the last one, I was able to get about 14 ohms, so at least that one is
ID'd. Gonna play with it some more tomorrow. I can't believe that two out of
three are toast!
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Starter vs Master contactor
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
--> <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:06 AM 10/1/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris Horsten"
><airplanes@sympatico.ca>
>
>Thanks Bob,
>
>I'm bringing my meter out to the airport this morning to see if I can
>get a reading. I take it that the measurement is to be made across the
>two big terminals while the solenoid is engaged (but obviously with no
>power running through it other than to energize)?
>
>Chris
No, you measure the COIL resistance, not CONTACT resistance.
Hook the ohmmeter to the same terminals that would energize the
contactor. Alternatively, if you have a metered power supply,
use it to energize the contactor and read the current. CD
contactors draw about an amp, ID contactors will be 3 to 5 amps.
Bob . . .
---
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Lamar Overvoltage Relay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris Horsten" <airplanes@sympatico.ca>
Help!
I've got a Lamar B-00289-2 overvoltage relay I'd like to try and use in my
aircraft. It has two connections on it: Bat and Load. Looking at Bob's
schematics, the crowbar hooks up to one side of the 5 amp field breaker and
to ground. In other words, this Lamar doodad may be a different approach
altogether. Anybody know how and where it gets connected? The Lamar web site
is all but useless for information.
Thanks
Chris H
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: very basic magneto info |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Hello Cy,
A couple of comments.... Matronics filters out attachments to messages. If
you sent this to Mr. Sargent direct, he will see the attachments, but we
can't.
Matronics does have a file sharing section, however. I would be
interested in
seeing the images you posted.
For the least likelihood of magneto noise making it into the avionics
system, it
is best to ONLY ground the P-lead to the magneto case itself. In fact, if
the
mag has an external filter cap, the p-lead should be grounded wherever
the case of the cap is grounded (preferably mounted ot the case of the mag).
Other wiring installations may work okay, but doing as I have described is
usually very easy to accomplish, and provides the best chance of success.
Other ground locations will always involve a more resistive path than the
direct
connection.
Thanks and regards,
Matt-
VE N34RD, C150 N714BK
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> Answers are after your questions. I attached a drawing from the Slick
> Master repair manual.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@earthlink.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: very basic magneto info
>
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent"
> <sarg314@earthlink.net>
>>
>> I must be missing the obvious here, but I have been searching for a
>> Slick magneto manual or schematic or *labeled* exploded diagram or
>> something that would identify the components I see when I look at my
>> 4300 series slick mag. The Unison website doesn't seem very helpful
>> nor do random articles I've found posted on the web. A phone call
>> placed to Slick has gone unreturned.
>>
>> I have a few REAL basic questions:
>>
>> 1- The mag has a stud which is obviously an electrical connection. I
>> take this to be the fabled "P-lead". Is this correct? YES
>>
>> 2- There is an fitting about the size of a quarter which has 6 or 8
>> small holes in it. I this some sort of vent? YES and it is the
>> bottome
> vent
>>
>> 3- There is a screw holding on what looks like a metal "cap" about the
>> size of a quarter. What is this? Is it an electrical connection? Top
> shielded vent
>>
>> 4- When one grounds the P-lead, is it enough to connect the P-lead to
>> any system ground, or are there 2 electrical connections on the
>> magneto that are connected together to best achieve grounding? Mag is
>> already
> connected to ground via the clamping to the engine. You only have to
> connect the P lead to the frame of the airplane or engine.
>>
>> ... Feeling like I missed the memo ...
>> --
>> Tom Sargent
>>
>>
>
>
Message 22
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: echristley@nc.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Kuc <bkuc1@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hat switch
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Kuc"
> <bkuc1@tampabay.rr.com>
> If you look at the CH products site, you will see
that they sell
> the 4 way
> switch of $2.00 and it is not surface mount. They
do not list the
> hat for
> sale. Maybe the mouse hat will fit it.
>
Which one are you referring to, Bob.
There is the "Switch - Hat". From the very short
button, it looks like just a miniature switch.
There would be 4 of these in the joystick's head,
and a mechanical assembly would be responsible for
depressing one of them. To implement it, I'd have
to build the requisite mechanical assembly.
There is the "Switch - Gamestick". This looks like
it could possibly be a 4-way toggle. But it's
questionable.
There is the "Mini joystick" for $15, but it looks
like it uses miniature pots, not switches. I would
be possible to implement this with some sort of
servo system, but such a design is way beyond my
current abilities. I'm not sure that I want to
extend my abilities in that direction.
Has anyone here disassembled a CH grip? Can you
confirm if the hat switch is a self-contained part
or a set of discrete components?
Message 23
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1@tampabay.rr.com>
> Which one are you referring to, Bob.
>
There was one for $2.00 that was a 4 way switch on that web page. I was
trying to help out on the SMT the mouser one had. Out on digi-key they do
have daughter boards where you can mount an SMT device and would have pins
attached the daughter board.
I do not know what kind of 4-ways Vans sells. I do not believe I saw a
picture of one of them. Maybe some else can help there. I bought my 4-way
switch and hat from Infinity. I do not have their grip, This was a few
years ago and do not know if they will sell them separate again. Their web
site did have a part number and such that was a replacement for what is on
their grips. When I did call to order one, he wanted to know how the old
one broke. I explained my situation to him.
My 4 way drives my trims via replays that I purchased at Digi-key.
I hope this helps.
Bob Kuc
Message 24
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| Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
DNA: do not archive
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Lister,
Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
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posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
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- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
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about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
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- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
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