---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/02/04: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:14 AM - e-mag (Mike Brogley) 2. 03:01 AM - Grounding in the Fuel Level System (Olivier Le Carbonnier) 3. 04:04 AM - Re: e-mag (Harley) 4. 06:45 AM - Re: Hat switch (jerb) 5. 07:56 AM - Sigtronics RES Audio Switcher (Bill & Marsha) 6. 08:16 AM - Re: Hat switch (jerb) 7. 08:53 AM - Re: Sigtronics RES Audio Switcher (earl_schroeder@juno.com) 8. 09:01 AM - Re: Hat switch (earl_schroeder@juno.com) 9. 09:07 AM - Re: Hat switch (thomas a. sargent) 10. 11:23 AM - Re: Hat switch (echristley@nc.rr.com) 11. 01:23 PM - Annunciator LED's (Richard Riley) 12. 01:51 PM - very basic magneto info () 13. 02:27 PM - Re: Annunciator LED's (Jerzy Krasinski) 14. 05:13 PM - Re: Annunciator LED's (Richard Riley) 15. 06:35 PM - Re: Annunciator LED's (Jerzy Krasinski) 16. 07:33 PM - Re: Annunciator LED's (thomas a. sargent) 17. 08:11 PM - Re: Annunciator LED's (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 18. 08:27 PM - Re: Annunciator LED's (Richard Riley) 19. 10:12 PM - Re: Annunciator LED's (Richard Riley) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:57 AM PST US From: Mike Brogley Subject: AeroElectric-List: e-mag --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mike Brogley Just saw this referred on the RV-10 list: http://emagair.com/ Any thoughts? -- Mike Brogley mikebrogley(at)ieee.org ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:01:49 AM PST US From: "Olivier Le Carbonnier" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Grounding in the Fuel Level System --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Olivier Le Carbonnier" i have the left fuel sender in the second bay (because of the flop tube). for wiring this fuel sender i plane to go throuht the main spar (there is a little hole where i put a bushing). question is: could i put a connector wing-fuselage for this wire ? or the fuel level sender must go from sender to gauge without connector ? thank's Olivier LC France ICQ#: 82067330 sanglier@laposte.net http://sangliervolant.chez.tiscali.fr Van's RV-8 n81939 wings -----Message d'origine----- De : owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de Werner Schneider Envoy : vendredi 17 septembre 2004 17:04 : aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Objet : Re: AeroElectric-List: Grounding in the Fuel Level System --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mickey Coggins" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grounding in the Fuel Level System > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > Hi, > > I have the SW fuel senders as well, shown here in this photo: > > http://www.rv8.ch/images/articles/20040726220023545_5_original.JPG > > Can you tell me the best way to ground it? > > I'm guessing one way is to drill a small hole, thread it, and > screw on a faston or just screw on a ring terminal. Does > this sound right? Of course, I don't want to go through > the plate, since it's already prosealed on, and I'd like to > avoid removing it again. I feel kind of silly that I didn't > think of this before I sealed up my tanks. > > Thanks for any hints. > > Mickey > > > >> How does the sensor find a ground path through all the sealant and > >> gaskets used to prevent fuel leakage? > > > > The difficult thing is to maintain insulation in most > > cases. There are many a failure mode for electronic > > devices where some tiny conductor has compromised the > > insulation between two parts that are not supposed to > > be connected. If you have threaded fasteners or rivets > > holding two parts together, it's a rare instance that > > clamp up forces won't extrude any insulating materials > > out of the joint. > > > > In a nutshell, the best thought out fuel gaging systems > > will be completely isolated from and have no dependence on > > chassis or airframe ground for operation. > > > > Bob . . . > > > -- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:04:40 AM PST US From: Harley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: e-mag --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley Morning, Mike... >> http://emagair.com/ Any thoughts?<< Oh yes! I've ordered both types for my Lycoming O-235...next batch is due to be completed in October. Have heard nothing negative about them yet, and seem like the idea of the century! About the only problem I can foresee is that some of the pusher planes may not have enough room to mount the self powered "P" version (it's "longer" than the basic e-mag) between the engine accessory case and the firewall...but, in that case, Emagair will supply the parts to remote the top half of the P-Mag. The smaller, E-Mag unit will fit...I have a Long EZ, and preliminary measurements show that both types (I ordered one of each) will fit my installation without modification. One of the guys on the Canard Aviators list (Ken Miller) is waiting for a set of them...he is going to have Mattituck install them and Dyno test them in his plane ... and our own Bob Nuckolls has commented on the idea after seeing the web site. To quote a paragraph is Bob's email; "Emag is one of the most exciting new ideas to come along in OBAM aircraft ignition systems in 10 years. If I owned an OBAM aircraft, I'd put ONE of these critters on order right now. I've e-mailed a few folks directly asking them to consider this product for their currently-flying aircraft. Inquiring minds want to know . . ." In short...looks like a great idea, looks like it will work and they are getting a lot of orders for them! You can read all about them at the website you indicated, www.emagair.com Harley Dixon Long EZ N28EZ Canandaigua, NY Mike Brogley wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mike Brogley > > >Just saw this referred on the RV-10 list: > > http://emagair.com/ > >Any thoughts? > >-- >Mike Brogley >mikebrogley(at)ieee.org > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:47 AM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hat switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jerb Check out these folks, I've found them to be very friendly and helpful - They have a basic foam grip on up that will work for your application. In fact is your looking for foam grips they have them. jerb At 08:36 PM 9/29/04 -0700, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Jackson" > > >Might I suggest trying the replica B-8 stickgrip from Wicks? > It has multiple switches, plus the four-way, coolie-hat trim switch, and >feels much more substantial than the video-game Infinity, all for $50. >Scott in VAncouver >RV-6, 150 hours >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Richard Riley" >To: >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hat switch > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley > > > > > >>Just in passing, I must say that I was a little put > >>off by the Infinity Grip's website. To much of hype > >>along the lines of 'buy my super-great, > >>designed-for-airplane product, or you'll DIE!! > >>Someone told me at a big flyin that someone else did > >>something stupid instead of buying my product and > >>they DIED!!' It sort of obfuscates the simple ideas > >>and basic physics concept. It's interesting to note > >>that after reading through all the hype that they > >>employ the cheap solution. > > > > My first year at Oshkosh I was with the newly debuting Berkut. 1991. We > > weren't offering them for sale, we didn't have a booth, we were just > > handing out spec sheets and seeing if people were interested. JD stood > > about 20 feet away, handing out spec sheets for his Infinity and saying > > we'd stolen his design. > > > > 13 years later, his plane still hasn't flown. The website is a pretty > > good > > indication of who he is. > > > > On the other hand, his stick isn't bad. Way too expensive, but better > > than > > most of the the other sticks in Aircraft Spruce. > > > > I think your best bet is going to be buying a stick off Ebay, and > > salvaging > > it for the hat switch. Shipping will be way more than the stick > > itself. Like this one > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=74944&item=5126667828&rd=1 > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:16 AM PST US From: "Bill & Marsha" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Sigtronics RES Audio Switcher --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill & Marsha" Is their a way to use a Sigtronics RES stereo audio switcher along with a Spa 400 Intercom? (It is not a 401 switcher) Sigtronics Website does not show this combination. Thanks Bill S. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:03 AM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hat switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jerb Let's try this again.... Check out these folks, I've found them to be very friendly and helpful - They have a basic foam grip on up that will work for your application. In fact is your looking for foam grips they have them. http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/stickgrips.html jerb >At 08:36 PM 9/29/04 -0700, you wrote: > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Jackson" > > > > > >Might I suggest trying the replica B-8 stickgrip from Wicks? > > It has multiple switches, plus the four-way, coolie-hat trim switch, and > >feels much more substantial than the video-game Infinity, all for $50. > >Scott in VAncouver > >RV-6, 150 hours > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Richard Riley" > >To: > >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hat switch > > > > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley > > > > > > > > > >>Just in passing, I must say that I was a little put > > >>off by the Infinity Grip's website. To much of hype > > >>along the lines of 'buy my super-great, > > >>designed-for-airplane product, or you'll DIE!! > > >>Someone told me at a big flyin that someone else did > > >>something stupid instead of buying my product and > > >>they DIED!!' It sort of obfuscates the simple ideas > > >>and basic physics concept. It's interesting to note > > >>that after reading through all the hype that they > > >>employ the cheap solution. > > > > > > My first year at Oshkosh I was with the newly debuting Berkut. 1991. We > > > weren't offering them for sale, we didn't have a booth, we were just > > > handing out spec sheets and seeing if people were interested. JD stood > > > about 20 feet away, handing out spec sheets for his Infinity and saying > > > we'd stolen his design. > > > > > > 13 years later, his plane still hasn't flown. The website is a pretty > > > good > > > indication of who he is. > > > > > > On the other hand, his stick isn't bad. Way too expensive, but better > > > than > > > most of the the other sticks in Aircraft Spruce. > > > > > > I think your best bet is going to be buying a stick off Ebay, and > > > salvaging > > > it for the hat switch. Shipping will be way more than the stick > > > itself. Like this one > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=74944&item=5126667828&rd=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:53:25 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Sigtronics RES Audio Switcher From: earl_schroeder@juno.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: earl_schroeder@juno.com I notice that the Spa 400 (perhaps all Sigtronics intercoms) run in parallel with the mic/com jacks. Some allow aux inputs which I wonder if Bob or someone has explored? I'd be interested in a cell phone input. Thanks, Earl > Is their a way to use a Sigtronics RES stereo audio switcher along > with a Spa 400 Intercom? (It is not a 401 switcher) Sigtronics > Website does not show this combination. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:01:21 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hat switch From: earl_schroeder@juno.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: earl_schroeder@juno.com > Check out these folks, I've found them to be very friendly and > helpful - > http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/stickgrips.html As a user of one of the original trim motors made available by Mr M. in a Mustang II and an observer of this growing company, I too would like to recommend checking their products. A fine bunch of folks IMHO. Earl E Schroeder Lancair N233EE Cessna N3595J 5436 Saint Phillips Rd S Evansville, Indiana 47712 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:58 AM PST US From: "thomas a. sargent" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hat switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" Everybody else is responding to this thread, so I guess I will take my turn too. I just bought 2 of the CH Products stick grips for $98 each including mounting bushings. They are a maker of top of the line computer control sticks which are used for games mostly, but also for controlling instruments. Kevin Williamson at CH will send you one to examine at no charge. One thing to note about computer control sticks is that they get about 100 times more cycles on the switches than aircraft control sticks. Killing space aliens is a much more demanding task than talking to the tower. So, I'm expecting it to be very durable. -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A, Landing gear ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:13 AM PST US From: echristley@nc.rr.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hat switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: echristley@nc.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: jerb Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hat switch > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jerb > > Let's try this again.... > Check out these folks, I've found them to be very friendly and > helpful - > They have a basic foam grip on up that will work for your > application. In > fact is your looking for foam grips they have them. > http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/stickgrips.html > jerb > They will also sell just the $50 hat switch. In fact, that is where I found the dimensional diagram for it. Right now, I'm working up an order for Mouser. Their switch is only about $2, but they have a $25 minimum, so I'm trying to throw in a bunch of stuff that I think I'll eventually need. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:15 PM PST US From: Richard Riley Subject: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator LED's --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley I'm building annuniators into my panel. I plan on mounting colored LED's at the back of the cavity to light them - red, green, yellow or blue depending on the function. Does anyone have relevant experience on how bright they should be to be readable in daylight? I'm assuming I'll have to dim them for night. Suggestions of specific parts would be *gratefully* accepted. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:30 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: very basic magneto info --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: From: "thomas a. sargent" Subject: AeroElectric-List: very basic magneto info <> 10/2/2004 Hello Tom, I know how you feel it is like doing business with a technology and a company whose philosophies are firmly rooted in about the 1928 era when magneto fired farm tractors were in their heyday. Maybe I can help a little. <> Sounds correct. The P (P for primary coil) lead comes off a capacitor inside the magneto and when that P lead is connected to a source of ground the magneto will not send high voltage out the ignition harness wires to the spark plugs. <<2- There is a fitting about the size of a quarter which has 6 or 8 small holes in it. I this some sort of vent?>> Good guess - on the exploded parts diagram that is called Air Vent. <<3- There is a screw holding on what looks like a metal "cap" about the size of a quarter. What is this? Is it an electrical connection?>> Not an electrical connection, but Air Vent with Hood. <<4- When one grounds the P-lead, is it enough to connect the P-lead to any system ground, or are there 2 electrical connections on the magneto that are connected together to best achieve grounding?>> There is a Phillips head screw on the magneto marked GND. You can connect the shield on the P lead shielded wire to that screw with a crimped on ring terminal. At the other end of the P lead you can have a switch that will connect the P lead shield to the P lead core wire when you want to ground the magneto. This would be the OFF position of the magneto switch. <> The memo is a publication from Unison called the F-1100 Master Service Manual. You can get a form to subscribe to this manual on the Unison web site initial cost is $50. Yearly subscriptions are $30. Probably overkill for a non A&P. If you will email me direct your postal mailing address I will copy a few pages from my manual, including an exploded parts diagram, and mail them to you. Should help a bit. OC ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:45 PM PST US From: Jerzy Krasinski Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator LED's --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski Richard, I strongly recommend blinking LEDs. I got the LEDs on Ebay. They seem to be cheaper there than anywhere else. check http://stores.ebay.com/SHOP-LED-Product-List For important things get three color blinking LEDs. Threy are very bright, and they are real attention getters. Jerzy Richard Riley wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley > >I'm building annuniators into my panel. I plan on mounting colored LED's at >the back of the cavity to light them - red, green, yellow or blue depending >on the function. Does anyone have relevant experience on how bright they >should be to be readable in daylight? I'm assuming I'll have to dim them >for night. Suggestions of specific parts would be *gratefully* accepted. > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:49 PM PST US From: Richard Riley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator LED's --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley At 02:24 PM 10/2/04, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski > > >Richard, >I strongly recommend blinking LEDs. I got the LEDs on Ebay. They seem to >be cheaper there than anywhere else. > >check http://stores.ebay.com/SHOP-LED-Product-List > >For important things get three color blinking LEDs. Threy are very >bright, and they are real attention getters. Most of the things I want lights for aren't trouble indicators, just status indicators - like gear down, gear in transit, electric fuel pump on. For gear up warning I'll use a blinker. I notice that the blue and green LEDs seem to have a lot less lumins for the same power as the red. Will I need to adjust that with resistors? ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:24 PM PST US From: Jerzy Krasinski Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator LED's --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski You have a current limit, usually 20ma per diode. This defines minimum resistance and the highest brightness. The minimum resistance is 10V/ 20mA = 500ohms. I put 10V rather than 12V in the formula because there is avoltage drop ~2-3V accross the diode. Obviously you can always reduce the current using bigger resistors. Jerzy Richard Riley wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley > >At 02:24 PM 10/2/04, you wrote: > > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski >> >> >>Richard, >>I strongly recommend blinking LEDs. I got the LEDs on Ebay. They seem to >>be cheaper there than anywhere else. >> >>check http://stores.ebay.com/SHOP-LED-Product-List >> >>For important things get three color blinking LEDs. Threy are very >>bright, and they are real attention getters. >> >> > > >Most of the things I want lights for aren't trouble indicators, just status >indicators - like gear down, gear in transit, electric fuel pump on. For >gear up warning I'll use a blinker. > >I notice that the blue and green LEDs seem to have a lot less lumins for >the same power as the red. Will I need to adjust that with resistors? > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:35 PM PST US From: "thomas a. sargent" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator LED's --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" That will get you close. But different types of diodes have different forward voltage drops. The blue ones, for example, are quite large, whereas the old silicon red diodes were just one normal Silicon diode drop - about 0.7v. I put them in a circuit with a 12v battery and a 1K resistor and actually measure the voltage drop across the diode with a volt meter. Then the equation becomes (13.8 - Vf)/I = R where Vf is the forward drop that you measured across the diode. Plug in the current in amps to get resistance in ohms or vice versa. As Jerzey says, most are in the 2 - 3 volt range. The modern super bright LEDs make a LOT of light in the 10ma to 20ma range. The red ones seem to give the most light per milliamp, although ultimately, your subjective impression is all that counts. These things are pretty spectrally pure. If you're a little color blind (10% of men have some red-green color blindness) you'll see it differently. Jerzy Krasinski wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski > > You have a current limit, usually 20ma per diode. This defines minimum > resistance and the highest brightness. The minimum resistance is 10V/ > 20mA = 500ohms. I put 10V rather than 12V in the formula because there > is avoltage drop ~2-3V accross the diode. Obviously you can always > reduce the current using bigger resistors. > > Jerzy -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A, Landing gear ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:26 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator LED's --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 10/02/2004 2:24:22 PM Central Standard Time, richard@RILEY.NET writes: I'm building annuniators into my panel. I plan on mounting colored LED's at the back of the cavity to light them - red, green, yellow or blue depending on the function. Does anyone have relevant experience on how bright they should be to be readable in daylight? I'm assuming I'll have to dim them for night. Suggestions of specific parts would be *gratefully* accepted. >>> Use these: http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T043/1429.pdf Go to figure 3 at the bottom of the page- no blues, but put some SRV on and you won't need them! I used the red and yellow on my annunciator, they work great, plenty bright, cheap etc. From The PossumWorks in TN Mark Phillips -6A N51PW ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:32 PM PST US From: Richard Riley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator LED's --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley At 07:30 PM 10/2/04, you wrote: >The modern super bright LEDs make a LOT of light in the 10ma to 20ma >range. The red ones seem to give the most light per milliamp, although >ultimately, your subjective impression is all that counts. These things >are pretty spectrally pure. If you're a little color blind (10% of men >have some red-green color blindness) you'll see it differently. Fortunately I'm not, but my dad was. He couldn't see red led indicators *at all* - the early calculators were useless to him. He also couldn't tell the difference between the red light and the green light on a stoplight. Years ago some genius in the city planning commission decided it would be artsy to start turning stoplights sideways. Of course they couldn't be bothered to turn them all the same direction. Dad raised hell about it, they backed off. It was the reason he could never get a pilot's license. He was a heck of a stick, but never got the paper. I guess I'll just need to buy a bunch of sample LEDs of various colors and intensities, make up a test rig and start playing. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:50 PM PST US From: Richard Riley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator LED's --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley At 08:07 PM 10/2/04, you wrote: >Use these: http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T043/1429.pdf >Go to figure 3 at the bottom of the page- no blues, but put some SRV on and >you won't need them! I used the red and yellow on my annunciator, they work >great, plenty bright, cheap etc. SRV? Stevie Ray Vaughan?