Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:38 AM - Flightcom Intercom (Neil Henderson)
2. 05:41 AM - Re: Flightcom Intercom (Brian Lloyd)
3. 07:08 AM - Re: Flightcom Intercom (Peter Laurence)
4. 08:26 AM - Re: Crimpers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 08:36 AM - Re: Avg Power Consumption (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 08:38 AM - Re: Instrument wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 09:39 AM - Re: D-sub connectors current rating (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 10:08 AM - VHF Antenna - Comant vs. RAMI (Mickey Coggins)
9. 11:26 AM - Horizontal contactor (Mickey Coggins)
10. 01:12 PM - Re: Horizontal contactor (BobsV35B@aol.com)
11. 03:51 PM - Re: Horizontal contactor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 10:22 PM - Re: Horizontal contactor (Mickey Coggins)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Flightcom Intercom |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neil Henderson" <neil.mo51@btopenworld.com>
Listers
I have just purchased a Flightcom 403mc intercom to replace an existing intercom
which I built from a RST Engineering kit and doesn't work very well. The aircraft,Vans
RV9, has a Microair 760 and is already hard wired. The PTT buttons
are wired directly into the radio but the 403mc calls for them to be wired through
the intercom. I have a "D" connector with easy access for Mic and Headphones
but the push to talk buttons go straight to the radio and are difficult to
access without a major rewired. Will the intercom work with just the Pilot
/ Co Pilot Mic and Headphones connected or must their be a PPT connection to the
403mc.
Wot you fink
Neil Henderson
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Flightcom Intercom |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Oct 7, 2004, at 3:37 AM, Neil Henderson wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neil Henderson"
> <neil.mo51@btopenworld.com>
>
>
> Listers
>
>
> I have just purchased a Flightcom 403mc intercom to replace an
> existing intercom which I built from a RST Engineering kit and doesn't
> work very well. The aircraft,Vans RV9, has a Microair 760 and is
> already hard wired. The PTT buttons are wired directly into the radio
> but the 403mc calls for them to be wired through the intercom. I have
> a "D" connector with easy access for Mic and Headphones but the push
> to talk buttons go straight to the radio and are difficult to access
> without a major rewired. Will the intercom work with just the Pilot /
> Co Pilot Mic and Headphones connected or must their be a PPT
> connection to the 403mc.
The PTT connection is needed to tell the intercom which mic to mute.
When the pilot's PTT is pressed the intercom mutes the copilot's mic
going into the radio and vice versa. So, yes, you need to wire the PTT
lines through the intercom.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Flightcom Intercom |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Peter Laurence <dr.laurence@mbdi.org>
> >Brian,
I was thinking of purchasing Jim Weir's intercom.
You stated that the RST intercom "doesn't
> > work very well." Would you elaborate on this?.
Is it a faulty circuit or in your opinion a not so great design?
Peter Laurence
> > Listers
> >
> >
> > I have just purchased a Flightcom 403mc intercom to replace an
> > existing intercom which I built from a RST Engineering kit and doesn't
> > work very well. The aircraft,Vans RV9, has a Microair 760 and is
> > already hard wired. The PTT buttons are wired directly into the radio
> > but the 403mc calls for them to be wired through the intercom. I have
> > a "D" connector with easy access for Mic and Headphones but the push
> > to talk buttons go straight to the radio and are difficult to access
> > without a major rewired. Will the intercom work with just the Pilot /
> > Co Pilot Mic and Headphones connected or must their be a PPT
> > connection to the 403mc.
>
> The PTT connection is needed to tell the intercom which mic to mute.
> When the pilot's PTT is pressed the intercom mutes the copilot's mic
> going into the radio and vice versa. So, yes, you need to wire the PTT
> lines through the intercom.
>
>>
Message 4
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:40 PM 10/6/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
>
>AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> <<SKIPI want to use some PIDG FASTONs and other PIDG connectors and need
> a crimp tool. I found Bob Nucholl's on B&C for $40. I checked on
>the AMP site and they said I had to use their ~$350 TETRA-CRIMP for PIDG
>FASTONs. I called them and asked why I couldn't use the ~$66 PRO-
>CRIMPER II and they said that the resulting crimps would not meet CSA (?)
>approval, even though the PRO-CRIMPER is approved for all other PIDG
>terminals
>and splices. I'd like to do it right, but am I getting entirely too anal?
>Maybe I should buy the expensive one and donate it to the local EAA
>chapter? Guy Buchanan>>
>
>10/6/2004
>
>Hello Guy, You raise two interesting questions:
>
>(1)Do the PIDG Faston connectors require different crimping than other
>forms of PIDG connectors?
If you're a professional designer of terminals and the tools that install
them, you would do well to at least KNOW what the optimum die shapes
and pressures are for installing ANY terminal on ANY wire.
You would be equally aware of a RANGE of acceptable installations
selected such that one tool does an adequate job installing several
terminals on several wires. This allows one tool to install a red
PIDG on 18, 20, and 22 AWG wire.
>(2)What particular CSA (Canadian Standards Association) standard says that
>the answer to the previous question is yes (at least in the Canadians
>minds) and why do they say so?
One can only guess. Without reading a report wherein terminals
were installed, data gathered and and a judgement applied as
to the adequacy of any particular wire/terminal/tool combination,
we're not going to know.
The poor man's rule of thumb is described in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf
as the "milk-jug" test. One could also repeat the
experiment described in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html
Check out the cross-section of a finished crimp
as illustrated in:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/GL.jpg
An inexpensive 30x illuminated microscope from Radio
Shack will let you do similar studies with ease.
It would be interesting to hear what a professional
from AMP/Waldom/TB has to say . . . Just be aware
that there are OPTIMUM combinations and ACCEPTABLE
combinations that cover a RANGE of situations. So
while getting their opinions, be sure to ask
their recommendations for home workshop testing
techniques that would help you explore compatibility
of your own combinations of terminals/tools/wire.
Bob . . .
---
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Avg Power Consumption |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> >Hello Listers,
> >
> >In an attempt to size my alternator appropriately I am trying to find out
> >average current consumption for a few different components. I have called
> >the manufacturers directly, but for the most part they only give me
> >maximum current values for their devices. Can anyone help or direct me to
> >a reliable source?
> >
> >Specifically I'm looking for average current values for a King KT-76A
> >transponder a Garmin GNC 250 XL GPS/Com.
> >
> >I would like very much to put a BC 20 amp, vacuum pad driven alternator in
> >my O-235 powered Kitfox, but the current values I have are adding up to
> >about 19 amps or so. I feel like (20-19)=1 amp is too thin a margin of
> >error. Besides, my friend's mustang replica only runs about 15 amps
> >according to him, so my 19 amps seems real high. Anyadvice?
Why cripple yourself with so small an alternator? It's a nice
piece of equipment but it's EXACTLY the same alternator as the
L-40 . . . de-rated because the vacuum pump pad runs so slow. It's
also about 2x the price.
> >
> >The only rule of thumb I've been told about sizing an alternatoris the sum
> >of continuous loads should not exceed 80% of rated alternator output.
> >Sounds good to me. Are there other guidelines commonly used?
The 80% rule is intended to cover battery recharge issues. A
better statement of the rule-of-thumb is to have sufficient
output to recharge the battery in whatever interval you're comfortable
with. If you like 30 minutes and you have a 17 a.h. battery,
you need 34 amps of headroom. If you're okay with a 90 minute recharge,
then 6 amps of headroom would do it.
How about sharing the load analysis data you have so far? I'm
skeptical of the 19A figure you have now but I'd be pleased to
be shown wrong.
Bob . . .
---
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:36 AM 10/6/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Brame
><Charleyb@earthlink.net>
>
>I recently installed a MD40-67 GPS CDI in my instrument panel. The
>pinout shows three separate 14 VDC power leads to the instrument;
>however, no amperage information is provided. Can I connect all three
>leads to the same fuzed power source or should each lead be separately
>powered and fuzed? I have queried MidContinent about the wiring, but
>have received no answers.
>
>Charlie Brame
>RV-6A N11CB
>San Antonio
Many manufacturer's provide multiple pins for power and ground
in their connectors. Put a 22AWG in each pin. Extend into the wire
bundle 6 to 12" and bring them together into a splice. Continue on
from the splice with 20AWG or whatever is appropriate.
Bob . . .
---
Message 7
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| Subject: | D-sub connectors current rating |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:06 AM 10/6/2004 +1000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst"
><khurst@taroom.qld.gov.au>
>
> >Requesting the max current rating for miniature d-sub connectors, both
> >soldered and machined pin types please. That would be max current per
> >pin I guess.
>
>Bob,
>
>In view of the fact that you really do owe us nothing, I sincerely
>appreciate the trouble you go to for the likes of people like me. Thank
>you mate.
>
>I do not have a particular application in mind right now, but can
>foresee maybe using a d-sub here or there. Not having any idea just how
>much current they can safely carry, thought I would seek the wisdom
>available on the list first.
>
>In relation to the drawing you did for me at
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/dsub-pin-paralleling.gif
>
>Is that connector a Blue 'PIDGE' Splice ? If so, could you tell me what
>the 'E' stands for please Bob.
Just a slip of the pen . . . my address is on Bainbridge . . . I
just didn't watch to see when it was a good time to stop writing.
I've redrawn that figure and posted it at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Paralleled_DSub_Pins.pdf
Bob . . .
---
Message 8
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| Subject: | VHF Antenna - Comant vs. RAMI |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi Bob,
You may want to update the B&C guys on this issue,
since I asked them this question a couple of hours
ago, and they said that I should mount the contactor
vertically.
I didn't like the answer, so I searched through the
archives, and found this Q&A. I'm happy to hear
they don't have to be vertical!
Mickey
>>
>>Re-post original may have gotten lost in the Christmas rush.
>>I hope to install the contactor tomorrow.
>>
>>Hi Bob and All,
>>
>>Quick question. Is there any concern about mounting a battery contactor with
>>the coil tube in the horizontal position? Given the pounding that our
>>seaplane will take on the water I wondered if there was any problem with the
>>coil holding the contact bar in a horizontal position verses pulling it down
>>while in a vertical position.
>
> There are many a hangar-legend and ol' mechanic's tales circulating
> about suggesting that there are critical orientation issues with
> respect to contactor installation. All are based upon some
> mis-interpretation of facts. The short answer is, No. Please
> feel free to mount your contactors to maximize convenience
> of installation.
>
> Bob . . .
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 9
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| Subject: | Horizontal contactor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi Bob,
You may want to update the B&C guys on this issue,
since I asked them this question a couple of hours
ago, and they said that I should mount the contactor
vertically.
I didn't like the answer, so I searched through the
archives, and found this Q&A. I'm happy to hear
they don't have to be vertical!
Mickey
>>
>>Re-post original may have gotten lost in the Christmas rush.
>>I hope to install the contactor tomorrow.
>>
>>Hi Bob and All,
>>
>>Quick question. Is there any concern about mounting a battery contactor with
>>the coil tube in the horizontal position? Given the pounding that our
>>seaplane will take on the water I wondered if there was any problem with the
>>coil holding the contact bar in a horizontal position verses pulling it down
>>while in a vertical position.
>
> There are many a hangar-legend and ol' mechanic's tales circulating
> about suggesting that there are critical orientation issues with
> respect to contactor installation. All are based upon some
> mis-interpretation of facts. The short answer is, No. Please
> feel free to mount your contactors to maximize convenience
> of installation.
>
> Bob . . .
do not archive
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Horizontal contactor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 10/7/2004 1:27:40 PM Central Standard Time,
mick-matronics@rv8.ch writes:
Hi Bob,
You may want to update the B&C guys on this issue,
since I asked them this question a couple of hours
ago, and they said that I should mount the contactor
vertically.
I didn't like the answer, so I searched through the
archives, and found this Q&A. I'm happy to hear
they don't have to be vertical!
Mickey
Good Afternoon Mickey,
For What It Is Worth. I had an Essex 8449 contactor in service for about
twelve years that I had mounted with the coil horizontal. It started to become
intermittent. I contacted the manufacturer and asked about the old mounting
rumor. I was told that it should have been mounted with the coil vertical
and the business end down. I switched to that when I replaced the contactor
about three years ago. So far so good, but who knows for real?
I had about two thousand hours of flight time with the coil horizontal.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Horizontal contactor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
The contactor orientation issues came to a boil more than 10 years
ago when some airshow performer landing and discovered a trashed
starter and chewed up ring gear. Theory was at the time that g-loads
during the show teased the contactor shut and welded it.
In all likelihood, the performer was concentrating on the task
ahead and did not notice that the starter contactor stuck when
the engine was started . . . he probably flew the whole event
with the starter motor engaged.
Let's noodle through how these things work:
The battery contactor has a fairly light spring and yeah,
one MIGHT be able to tease an OPEN contactor CLOSED with
g-loading . . . but we fly with this contactor already
engaged. You're NOT going to drive it OPEN with g-loading.
Starter contactors have much heavier springs (for the express
purpose of driving contacts open even when they may have stuck
a little bit). Starter contactors usually mount on the firwall
with their axis of operation parallel to waterlines. Not only
is the starter contactor relatively immune from effects of
g-loading due to much heavier spring, it's mounted in the
airplane such that it doesn't experience g-loads due to
aero-maneuvers.
Consider further that many folks don't have battery boxes.
The battery sets in a shallow tray on a horizontal shelf.
There are no vertical surfaces upon which one might mount
the battery contactor . . . I sure wouldn't build a bracket
for the sole purpose of standing the battery contactor up.
That puppy lays down on the shelf right beside the battery.
Is there an "ideal" mounting position? Perhaps for the
battery contactor . . . a vertical mounting with the business
end down will have a very small operating benefit. The greater
benefit is to gather condensate in the lid away from the
contacts. I might even drill a #40 drain hole in the lowest
part of the lid.
I'll suggest that 99% of the worrying about contactor
orientation adds no real value and will at best influence
service life by perhaps +/- ten percent. Since we're
designing failure tolerant systems from the get-go,
I wouldn't loose any sleep over contactor service life.
Bob . . .
At 04:11 PM 10/7/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>
>In a message dated 10/7/2004 1:27:40 PM Central Standard Time,
>mick-matronics@rv8.ch writes:
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>You may want to update the B&C guys on this issue,
>since I asked them this question a couple of hours
>ago, and they said that I should mount the contactor
>vertically.
>
>I didn't like the answer, so I searched through the
>archives, and found this Q&A. I'm happy to hear
>they don't have to be vertical!
>
>Mickey
>
>
>Good Afternoon Mickey,
>
>For What It Is Worth. I had an Essex 8449 contactor in service for about
>twelve years that I had mounted with the coil horizontal. It started
>to become
>intermittent. I contacted the manufacturer and asked about the old mounting
>rumor. I was told that it should have been mounted with the coil vertical
>and the business end down. I switched to that when I replaced the contactor
>about three years ago. So far so good, but who knows for real?
>
>I had about two thousand hours of flight time with the coil horizontal.
>
>Happy Skies,
>
>Old Bob
>AKA
>Bob Siegfried
>Ancient Aviator
>Stearman N3977A
>Brookeridge Airpark LL22
>Downers Grove, IL 60516
>630 985-8502
>
>
>---
>Version: 6.0.774 / Virus Database: 521 - Release Date: 10/7/2004
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
---
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Horizontal contactor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi Bob,
>Is there an "ideal" mounting position? Perhaps for the
>battery contactor . . . a vertical mounting with the business
>end down will have a very small operating benefit. The greater
>benefit is to gather condensate in the lid away from the
>contacts. I might even drill a #40 drain hole in the lowest
>part of the lid.
Thanks for your explanation. This is another example
of where knowledge of how things work can help a lot.
The battery contactor is a black box for me. I have
only a vague idea what is happening inside. Do you know if
anyone has cut one open and posted pictures somewhere?
I guess I could sacrifice one of my new ones, and order
another. I don't have easy access to used stuff.
Also, which end would you consider the "business end",
the end with the connections? I was about to mount
mine with this end up. I guess another thing to add
to your list of things to do is "Everything you wanted
to know about contactors, but were afraid to ask".
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
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