Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:44 AM - Re: Horizontal contactor (Mickey Coggins)
2. 07:22 AM - Re: Radio Range (SportAV8R@aol.com)
3. 09:19 AM - Re: Avg Power Consumption (Tinne maha)
4. 09:39 AM - How to connect solder tab switches into crimp design (James Foerster)
5. 09:58 AM - Re: Radio Range (BobsV35B@aol.com)
6. 10:15 AM - Alternator shield grounds (Scott Aldrich)
7. 10:44 AM - Anyone need a milliohmmeter? (James Foerster)
8. 10:58 AM - Re: Radio Range (SportAV8R@aol.com)
9. 11:24 AM - Re: Anyone need a milliohmmeter? (Paul Messinger)
10. 11:30 AM - Comments on Wiring Diagram (Tinne maha)
11. 11:32 AM - Alt field switch amp rating (Richard Riley)
12. 11:37 AM - Re: Radio Range (BobsV35B@aol.com)
13. 11:50 AM - Re: Alternator shield grounds (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 12:22 PM - Re: Anyone need a milliohmmeter? (John Schroeder)
15. 12:27 PM - Re: Anyone need a milliohmmeter? (Gilles Thesee)
16. 03:18 PM - Re: Alternator shield grounds (Scott Aldrich)
17. 03:38 PM - Re: How to connect solder tab switches into (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 04:25 PM - Re: Radio Range (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 06:04 PM - Re: Firewall goop (Charlie Kuss)
20. 06:52 PM - Re: Avg Power Consumption (Brian Lloyd)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Horizontal contactor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> See page 11-14 of the 'Connection. Also see:
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-1a.jpg
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-1b.jpg
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-1c.jpg
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-1d.jpg
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-1e.jpg
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-1f.jpg
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-1l.jpg
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-2.jpg
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S702-1a.jpg
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S702-1b.jpg
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S702-1l.jpg
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S702wire.jpg
Many thanks!
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
do not archive
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 2
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
Good Evening Larry,
If you are comparing a top mounted antenna on a Cessna 150 with a bottom
mounted antenna on a home built, the difference could be dramatic.<<
Yeah, after all, not only the experimental's antenna will be five feet lower at
a given altitude, its antenna polarization, although still vertical, will be
upside down! Transmissions might even come though backwards. Upper sideband
will appear as lower, and vice versa. This could smoke your expensive radio...
Oh, wait; what was I thinking? These problems would only exist in a parallel universe;
not to worry, I guess.
-Stormy
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Avg Power Consumption |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" b.nuckolls@cox.net
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avg Power Consumption
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" b.nuckolls@cox.net
Hello Listers,
In an attempt to size my alternator appropriately I am trying to find out
average current consumption for a few different components. I have called
the manufacturers directly, but for the most part they only give me
maximum current values for their devices. Can anyone help or direct me to
a reliable source?
Specifically I'm looking for average current values for a King KT-76A
transpondera Garmin GNC 250 XL GPS/Com.
I would like very much to put a BC 20 amp, vacuum pad driven alternator in
my O-235 powered Kitfox, but the current values I have are adding up to
about 19 amps or so. I feel like (20-19)=1 amp is too thin a margin of
error. Besides, my friend's mustang replica only runs about 15 amps
according to him, so my 19 amps seems real high. Anyadvice?
Why cripple yourself with so small an alternator? It's a nice
piece of equipment but it's EXACTLY the same alternator as the
L-40 . . . de-rated because the vacuum pump pad runs so slow. It's
also about 2x the price.
I've been told by many qualifed sources to build light. The BC 20 amp alternator
only weighs about 5.75 lbs.....that's 2 lbs lighter than the belt driven Honda
alternator I currently have on ( about 0.4 lbs lighter thanBC L-40) which is
big, but even bigger when you consider that I can get rid of the belt mounting
bracket bolttoo. Once the belt is gone, I don'tneed the groove on the flywheel
either so I'm looking at ahuge weight savings by using a vacuum pump pad
driven alternator.....assuming it's electrically sufficient.Equally important
to me,the airplane I'm buildingwill be nose heavy to begin with.....so by using
the SD-20, there is a lot of weight out of the very front the necessary remainder
has moved back a couple feet. As for cost, B Coffered tosell me the SD-20
without the STC for the same cost as the L-40. Still real steep at ~$700,
but I'll
splurge for that kind of weight CG improvement.
Call me a lightweight or a weight savings kook.....I bought 32 feet of Eric's copper
clad aluminum battery cable replaced the heavy polyvinylinsulation with
polyolefin that is 1/2 the weight more temperature resistant.
The only rule of thumb I've been told about sizing an alternatoris the sum
of continuous loads should not exceed 80% of rated alternator output.
Sounds good to me. Are there other guidelines commonly used?
The 80% rule is intended to cover battery recharge issues. A
better statement of the rule-of-thumb is to have sufficient
output to recharge the battery in whatever interval you're comfortable
with. If you like 30 minutes and you have a 17 a.h. battery,
you need 34 amps of headroom. If you're okay with a 90 minute recharge,
then 6 amps of headroom would do it.
How about sharing the load analysis data you have so far? I'm
skeptical of the 19A figure you have now but I'd be pleased to
be shown wrong.
Bob . . .
As I don't have all accurate figures yet, 19 amps was my semi-educated guess.(Accurate
figures is what I'm really in search of right now) Here's how I came up
with it (I assumed cruise flight is what condition I should design for....please
tell me if otherwise):
Accurate figures (from manufacturer /or tag/literaturew/equipment):
Whelen Position Lights 7.4 amps
Whelen Strobe Power Supply 4.0 amps
Garmin GPS/Comm (not x-mitting voice) 1.35 amps
King KT76A Transponder 1.5 amps *
Light Speed Elect. Ign 1.2 amps
Apple I-Pod music input 0.5 amps
Sub-total 15.95 amps
* = Max figure. Honeywell/King wont give avg value.
Semi-Accurate figures (from load analysis of a Europa HB-YK1....a sheet I got off
the list):
Intercom0.16 amps
Turn Coordinator 0.125 amps
Battery Contactor1.0 amps
Sub-total1.285 amps
Total w/o 'Fudge Factor' 17.235 amps
'Fudge-Factor' figures (Guessed what I hope is high 'cuz I don't have anything
to go on):
Engine Instruments, Instrument Lights, Low Voltage Warning, Low Fuel Warning.....1.75
amps
I realize the fudge factor is ridiculously high....was working off memory when
I wrote the original e-mail (besides a factor of safety is good when faced with
a lack of knowledge), but one should still get the points: #1 - I'm looking
for accurateavg power consumption figures formy panel - can anyone help? #2 -
Is the 20 amps - 17, 18 or 19 amps a sufficient margin of safety?
One last point: I don't PLAN on flying at night.....once in a whilethe first or
last30 minutes of a trip.....(anyone can see that leaving the position lights
off puts me well below 20 amps).....but I'd like to know if the electrical system
can handle night flight withouta heavy, front mounted, belt driven alternator.
Again, any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks,
Grant
Rock, jazz, country, soul & more. Find the music you love on MSN Music!
Message 4
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| Subject: | How to connect solder tab switches into crimp design |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comcast.net>
Bob, or others,
I have decided to use some miniature toggle switches with LED indicators at the tip. These are available with two colors, and I got the red-green pair and well as pure amber. This lets me use the switch itself as an annunciator, and for takeoff, all the switches should be "in the green". I could find these only in miniature size made by NKK. Here is the URL http://www.nkkswitches.com/pdf/M2100.pdf
There are full size switches made with faston tabs, with LED lighting on the toggle,
available from auto supply houses, but these have plastic toggles. I just
don't like the idea of a plastic toggle--too flimsy.
The NKK 2100 series is miniature, and I could only purchase the solder tab variety.
Do I solder a two inch pigtail with a male crimp PIDG connector on the other
end? I could also directly solder an uninsulated tab on to each switch post,
but might need to use something smaller than 1/4 inch. The pigtail would
let me use shrink tubing over the joint: I'm not sure if this is a feature or
just marginally more work. The switches will be mounted on a subpanel with a
service loop. The subpanel will have the backlighting built in as flat LED panels
for the legends, and I'm considering Lexan sheet with paint to mask all
but the legend spots.
Jim Foerster J400, wiring
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 10/9/2004 9:23:37 AM Central Standard Time,
SportAV8R@aol.com writes:
Oh, wait; what was I thinking? These problems would only exist in a
parallel universe; not to worry, I guess.
-Stormy
Good Afternoon Stormy,
I understand your skepticism, but that five feet a can make a major
difference. At my home drome, I can work a local FAA communication station just
fine
with the top antenna and can get no contact at all with the bottom antenna.
In addition to the signal being grabbed up by the ground clutter, there is
always the possibility of getting interference with reinforcing metal in the
ground cover.
Five feet may not seem like much to you, but it could be a lot to the
antenna.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Message 6
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| Subject: | Alternator shield grounds |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
I ran shielded wire for all my alternator and voltage regulator lines, I now
understand that wasn't necessary. But since I did, would I want to only
ground one end like on the magneto P leads or ground both ends of the
shielding? If both, would bringing the shields from the bus end back to
the firewall single point ground be okay?
Thanks,
Scott
Message 7
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| Subject: | Anyone need a milliohmmeter? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comcast.net>
Friends,
There is an article in the Jan. 2004 Circuit Cellar Ink magazine on building a
milliohmmeter. It uses a microcontroller with the code available from the magazine.
It uses a 1 KHz signal at 5 volts through a current limiting resistor
into the low value resistance. You oldtime amateur radio operators might know
this circuit as a synchronous detector. They call it a 'lock-in milliohmmeter'.
It reads zero to 190 milliohms, about right for checking switches, big connections,
and other things presently not measurable. The author used perf board
and point to point wiring, which looks messy but apparently worked well--this
type of circuit is very forgiving of noise. The output is a serial signal
read with a two line by 16 place LCD display. Anyone interested? It would make
a good shared unit for an EAA chapter, and the author says he uses it all
the time.
I'm considering doing a PC board layout for this, and would be happy to share the
layout with anyone who might want it. pcbexpress.com will send three boards
for $62, and I would expect to design to this size board. Of course, Eric Jones
might want to do this, and that would be the best arrangement, but I would
like to see if there is any interest in such a project.
I did look briefly for commercial milliohmmeters, and they a very expensive, e.g.
$2,500
Jim Foerster
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
Old Bob:
I hope you recognized tongue-in-cheek :-)
You are right that on the ground, 5 feet (belly vs turtledeck) can and often does
make all the diffrerence in the readability of an AM signal. I have experienced
the detuning effect and the nulls in the pattern on many occasions with
belly antennas, and with the other kind, though less often. His question specifically
referenced an altitude of some thousands of feet. Different rules apply
up there.
-Stormy
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone need a milliohmmeter? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
I must have missed that article and yes I would be interested in a PCB. (and
/ or just the layout).
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comcast.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Anyone need a milliohmmeter?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster"
<jmfpublic@comcast.net>
>
> Friends,
>
> There is an article in the Jan. 2004 Circuit Cellar Ink magazine on
building a milliohmmeter. It uses a microcontroller with the code available
from the magazine. It uses a 1 KHz signal at 5 volts through a current
limiting resistor into the low value resistance. You oldtime amateur radio
operators might know this circuit as a synchronous detector. They call it a
'lock-in milliohmmeter'. It reads zero to 190 milliohms, about right for
checking switches, big connections, and other things presently not
measurable. The author used perf board and point to point wiring, which
looks messy but apparently worked well--this type of circuit is very
forgiving of noise. The output is a serial signal read with a two line by
16 place LCD display. Anyone interested? It would make a good shared unit
for an EAA chapter, and the author says he uses it all the time.
>
> I'm considering doing a PC board layout for this, and would be happy to
share the layout with anyone who might want it. pcbexpress.com will send
three boards for $62, and I would expect to design to this size board. Of
course, Eric Jones might want to do this, and that would be the best
arrangement, but I would like to see if there is any interest in such a
project.
>
> I did look briefly for commercial milliohmmeters, and they a very
expensive, e.g. $2,500
>
> Jim Foerster
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Comments on Wiring Diagram |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
Bob,
I'd like to get your comments on my wiring diagram (modified fig Z-11) before I
go crazycutting crimping. I don't think I can send an attachment to the list.
Would you be willing to comment if I sent you the file off list?
Find the music you love on MSN Music. Start downloading now!
Message 11
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| Subject: | Alt field switch amp rating |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley <richard@riley.net>
I'm picking an alternator field switch. I want to use a locking miniature
toggle. I understand that I need a 5 amp breaker on the alt field. The
switch I'd like to use doesn't give me a rating at 12 volts. It lists 3
amps at 30 VDC. Is it enough?
Message 12
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 10/9/2004 12:59:02 PM Central Standard Time,
SportAV8R@aol.com writes:
His question specifically referenced an altitude of some thousands of feet.
Different rules apply up there.
-Stormy
Good Afternoon Stormy,
I guess I missed the reference to an altitude.
Sorry for the bad information.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator shield grounds |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:14 AM 10/9/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
>
>I ran shielded wire for all my alternator and voltage regulator lines, I now
>understand that wasn't necessary. But since I did, would I want to only
>ground one end like on the magneto P leads or ground both ends of the
>shielding? If both, would bringing the shields from the bus end back to
>the firewall single point ground be okay?
What ever methodology you like. There are no characteristics
of noise on the alternator wires that benefit from shielding
so the manner in which you connect shields doesn't matter from
a perspective of performance. I would recommend that you attach
one end only so as to avoid creation of multiple ground paths
between the crankcase and airframe.
Bob . . .
---
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone need a milliohmmeter? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Jim -
I am definitely interested in a pcb for this meter. I don't have a copy of
the magazine. Any suggestions as to how to get a copy of the article?
Thanks,
John
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone need a milliohmmeter? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Hi all,
Just re-read an article by Bob about a low ohm adaptator for low resistance
measurements. The 10 $ fixture works with a digital multimeter and is
powered by dry cell batteries. Working on DC current might be significant
for coil measurements, for instance ?
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Anyone need a milliohmmeter?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger"
<paulm@olypen.com>
>
> I must have missed that article and yes I would be interested in a PCB.
(and
> / or just the layout).
>
> Paul
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comcast.net>
> To: <AeroElectric-List@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Anyone need a milliohmmeter?
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster"
> <jmfpublic@comcast.net>
> >
> > Friends,
> >
> > There is an article in the Jan. 2004 Circuit Cellar Ink magazine on
> building a milliohmmeter. It uses a microcontroller with the code
available
> from the magazine. It uses a 1 KHz signal at 5 volts through a current
> limiting resistor into the low value resistance. You oldtime amateur
radio
> operators might know this circuit as a synchronous detector. They call it
a
> 'lock-in milliohmmeter'. It reads zero to 190 milliohms, about right for
> checking switches, big connections, and other things presently not
> measurable. The author used perf board and point to point wiring, which
> looks messy but apparently worked well--this type of circuit is very
> forgiving of noise. The output is a serial signal read with a two line by
> 16 place LCD display. Anyone interested? It would make a good shared
unit
> for an EAA chapter, and the author says he uses it all the time.
> >
> > I'm considering doing a PC board layout for this, and would be happy to
> share the layout with anyone who might want it. pcbexpress.com will send
> three boards for $62, and I would expect to design to this size board. Of
> course, Eric Jones might want to do this, and that would be the best
> arrangement, but I would like to see if there is any interest in such a
> project.
> >
> > I did look briefly for commercial milliohmmeters, and they a very
> expensive, e.g. $2,500
> >
> > Jim Foerster
Message 16
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| Subject: | Alternator shield grounds |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
Thanks Bob.
Scott
>I ran shielded wire for all my alternator and voltage regulator lines, I
now
>understand that wasn't necessary. But since I did, would I want to only
>ground one end like on the magneto P leads or ground both ends of the
>shielding? If both, would bringing the shields from the bus end back to
>the firewall single point ground be okay?
What ever methodology you like. There are no characteristics
of noise on the alternator wires that benefit from shielding
so the manner in which you connect shields doesn't matter from
a perspective of performance. I would recommend that you attach
one end only so as to avoid creation of multiple ground paths
between the crankcase and airframe.
Bob . . .
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: How to connect solder tab switches into |
crimp design
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
crimp design
At 09:38 AM 10/9/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster"
><jmfpublic@comcast.net>
>
>Bob, or others,
>
>I have decided to use some miniature toggle switches with LED indicators
>at the tip. These are available with two colors, and I got the red-green
>pair and well as pure amber. This lets me use the switch itself as an
>annunciator, and for takeoff, all the switches should be "in the
>green". I could find these only in miniature size made by NKK. Here is
>the URL http://www.nkkswitches.com/pdf/M2100.pdf
Cute! You realize of course that you'll need to buffer these switches
for high current loads (more than 5A or so). Relays or solid-state
contactors will be needed for landing lights, pitot heat, nav lights
etc.
>There are full size switches made with faston tabs, with LED lighting on
>the toggle, available from auto supply houses, but these have plastic
>toggles. I just don't like the idea of a plastic toggle--too flimsy.
Okay.
>The NKK 2100 series is miniature, and I could only purchase the solder tab
>variety. Do I solder a two inch pigtail with a male crimp PIDG connector
>on the other end? I could also directly solder an uninsulated tab on to
>each switch post, but might need to use something smaller than 1/4
>inch. The pigtail would let me use shrink tubing over the joint: I'm not
>sure if this is a feature or just marginally more work. The switches will
>be mounted on a subpanel with a service loop.
I'd make the sub-panel removable as an assembly with enough
service slack in the wires that you can easily get the assembly
clear of the panel for maintenance. Then solder wires directly to
the switches and heat-shrink the joints. Make service loops
long enough that you can clip off and replace the switch several
times. An extra inch of wire should suffice.
> The subpanel will have the backlighting built in as flat LED panels for
> the legends, and I'm considering Lexan sheet with paint to mask all but
> the legend spots.
Consider back-engraved lexan placards. You can put colored gels over the
lettering from behind and illuminate with white leds for both daylight
and nite visibility.
>Jim Foerster J400, wiring
>
>
>---
>Version: 6.0.775 / Virus Database: 522 - Release Date: 10/8/2004
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
---
Message 18
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:22 AM 10/9/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
>
>
>Good Evening Larry,
>
>If you are comparing a top mounted antenna on a Cessna 150 with a bottom
>mounted antenna on a home built, the difference could be dramatic.<<
>
>Yeah, after all, not only the experimental's antenna will be five feet
>lower at a given altitude, its antenna polarization, although still
>vertical, will be upside down! Transmissions might even come though
>backwards. Upper sideband will appear as lower, and vice versa. This
>could smoke your expensive radio...
>
>Oh, wait; what was I thinking? These problems would only exist in a
>parallel universe; not to worry, I guess.
Not at all. The radiation pattern for a quarter-wave vertical antenna
over a ground plane peaks at 15 to 20 degrees above the horizon.
The top mounted Cessna antennas talk and hear best for stations
above the horizon. Bottom mounted antennas will see more of the
earth's surface. All things being equal, the bottom mounted antenna
should perform best most of the time for communicating with ground
stations well below the horizon. For stations a long way off (essentially
ON the horizon), it's a toss-up. Depending on bearing of the station
and variables of location on the fuselage, top or bottom mounted
antennas may trade off the "Top Dog Antenna Awards".
Small airplanes are a large departure from idealized installations
for resonant antennas. We have some VERY expensive computer software
that predicts antenna performance on our "big" ol' bizjets. Even
airplanes of this size present some lumpy radiation patterns
that depart considerably from the antenna range ideals.
Bob . . .
---
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall goop |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Ferg,
Thanks for the tip. Looking in McMaster-Carr's online catalog, they don't
mention the model (FS-1900) on the catalog page. Do I assume correctly,
that you are referring to the product which is described as:
Water-Based, Expanding- Cures to a flexible seal that, when exposed to
heat, expands up to seven times its original volume to fill voids left by
melting PVC, plastic pipe, and insulation. Perfect for construction joints
where expansion and contraction exist. Can be sanded and painted. Contains
no solvents or silicones, and won't emit gases. Install at temperatures
from 40=B0 to 90=B0 F.
Charlie Kuss
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
>
>Cheers,
> I just gooped the rudder bars which infringe upon the firewall
>sides. I made overlapping plates either side and gooped the whole opening
>with a McMaster-Carr offering of "Grace Flamesafe FS-1900 Sealant" - an
>intumescent, elastomeric Firestop". I put the firepot to a copy of the
>materials to see, and it kept the flames at bay for at least 15 minutes -
>and it's good for one year.
>tech assistance at 866-333-3726 or see at www.graceconstruction.com
>
>Ferg
>A064
>www.mcmaster.com - start with page 1683, or search for fire stop compounds
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Avg Power Consumption |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Oct 8, 2004, at 2:43 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>> Except that batteries do not recharge linearly. Constant voltage
>> charging of lead-acid batteries puts most of the electrons back (up to
>> about 85%) in short order but after that it takes a long time and you
>> can't get the battery to suck more current without raising the voltage
>> which will damage the battery. And since you probably haven't drawn
>> more than a couple of AH out of the battery for starting, you already
>> have more than 85% when you start recharging. Having a lot more
>> alternator capacity will not speed charging.
>
> That's kind of picking at small straws . . . the nominal bus
> voltage setting for most off-the-shelf regulators is already
> "too-high".
Actually, in my experience, the setting on aircraft VRs is too low to
ensure a proper full charge in reasonable time (probably to prevent the
battery from self-destructing on a long flight) but too high for a
proper float (maintenance) charge. So you are never going to get the
battery to accept a full charge in short order. The current will fall
off too soon, before the battery is fully charged.
Did you see the voltage-vs-temperature charge and float tables I posted
for Deka's AGM and Gel-Cell batteries? It makes for interesting
reading. Given that the chemistry for AGMs is very much like that
flooded-cell batteries you can get an idea from that.
> If one has the patience, motivation, budget -AND-
> a friendly microprocessor, it's easy to pamper the
> airplane's battery. It gets down to return-on-investment
> decisions that ask the question, "How much $time$ does
> it take to increase a battery's service life by say
> 10 percent?" I'm trying to answer that question for
> RAC right now. As you might guess, there's no real
> field data from which one might draw a conclusion.
I think you need to look in the Marine and RV markets where they abuse
the hell out of their batteries.
> Lots of lab data but we never see laboratory conditions
> in the field. In the mean time, rules-of-thumb rule:
> Do you fly lots of LONG flights? 14.2 or even 13.8
> may be your magic, room-temp setting. Short flights
> once a week? 14.2 to 14.6 might be helpful. But it's
> almost a sure bet that few operators will be able to
> tell the difference.
Good point. It does need to be made automatic. On my boat I have
solved the problem with an energy monitor that keeps track of the AH I
have pulled out of the battery and also controls the alternator
controller to temperature compensate the charge process and to shift
from charge to float when the battery is full. OTOH, my battery bank
there costs $1500 so keeping it alive for 5+ years means real money in
my pocket.
> I've been proposing smart regulators to the GA
> OEMs for about 20 years. To date, B&C is the only supplier
> I'm aware of that offers a temperature compensated
> regulator. But for 95% of the missions where an RV6
> is useful, adding this feature ($75 plus cost of
> installation) the return on investment is very
> problematical.
OTOH, there is no reason that a properly cared-for battery shouldn't
provide 90% capacity at 5 years. If viewed that way the extra
complexity starts to look like break-even. Hey, guys are buying the
Unison/Slick electronic magneto system.
> I've been working on a White Paper for several weeks
> extolling the virtues of elegant charging system
> design. However, in the last few paragraphs, I may
> have to recommend that these features be considered ONLY
> for new airplanes were the whole airplane has to fly
> through the hoops of certification. The cost of upgrading
> an old airplane are so high that there may be a negative
> return on investment. I.e., certification stifles
> improvements and may indeed reduce safety.
It shouldn't be all that difficult. Three-stage charge regulators for
the marine and RV markets are less expensive then the B&C VR by a long
way. Some even include current and/or temperature sensing to limit the
output of the alternator to a safe level.
> Our bizjet products see some wide variation of operating
> temperatures and we would probably see improvement in battery
> life by temperature compensating the recharge voltage.
> The goal is to figure out a way to incorporate it with
> a minimum number of drawing changes and test plans.
> The engineering part is easy. Minimizing the paper-costs
> will be the driver for a go/no-go decision.
>
> Wouldn't be surprised that it never happens.
Just change the battery every year ...
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
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