Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:40 AM - Re: Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals (Kingsley Hurst)
2. 01:08 AM - voltage regulators b&c (james.k.glindemann@exxonmobil.com)
3. 03:47 AM - Re: voltage regulators b&c (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 04:15 AM - Re: Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals (Brian Lloyd)
5. 01:52 PM - Alternator Fuse Location (DAVID REEL)
6. 02:47 PM - Re: voltage regulators b&c (james.k.glindemann@exxonmobil.com)
7. 03:15 PM - Re: voltage regulators b&c (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 03:18 PM - Re: Alternator Fuse Location (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 04:39 PM - SL-40 and 403mc (Geoff Evans)
10. 07:04 PM - inverse dimmer (Dan Checkoway)
11. 08:15 PM - Power Consumption II (Tinne maha)
12. 08:30 PM - Re: SL-40 and 403mc (Brian Lloyd)
13. 08:34 PM - Re: inverse dimmer (Brian Lloyd)
14. 08:42 PM - Avg Power Consumption III (Tinne maha)
15. 09:46 PM - Connecting Facet Fuel Pump (Kingsley Hurst)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst@taroom.qld.gov.au>
To all six who "enlightened" me re the sizing convention of Ring Tongue
Terminals.
Thank you gents, much appreciated. I looked on the Net but couldn't
find what I wanted to know.
Do not want to start an argument about units of measurement but I can't
help feeling how much simpler life could be if we were not constrained
by the momentum of all these weird and wonderful conventions arrived at
years ago.
Cheers all
Kingsley Hurst in Oz
Message 2
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| Subject: | voltage regulators b&c |
01, 2004) at 10/12/2004 03:07:15 AM
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: james.k.glindemann@exxonmobil.com
Can anybody tell me the difference between the B & C regulators P/N 's
LS1 and LS1A? . B&C no longer list LS1, but I own one and am wondering if
I need to get it upgraded
James K Glindemann
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: voltage regulators b&c |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:06 PM 10/12/2004 +1100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: james.k.glindemann@exxonmobil.com
>
>Can anybody tell me the difference between the B & C regulators P/N 's
>LS1 and LS1A? . B&C no longer list LS1, but I own one and am wondering if
>I need to get it upgraded
>
>
>James K Glindemann
The LS1 was the very first design that was built in a very
small quantity before we decided that the design needed to
be changed. I recommend you acquire a new one.
Bob . . .
---
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Oct 12, 2004, at 3:40 AM, Kingsley Hurst wrote:
> Do not want to start an argument about units of measurement but I can't
> help feeling how much simpler life could be if we were not constrained
> by the momentum of all these weird and wonderful conventions arrived at
> years ago.
As I recall, bolt sizes and thread pitches were more consistent in the
"English Standard" world than they are in the metric world. One could
get by with a much smaller stock of fasteners. But even given that, I
agree that having things spec'd by their size rather than some
seemingly ambiguous convention is a win.
<sigh> If we only lived in a perfect world.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Alternator Fuse Location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
By wiring one end of my 40 amp fuse to the battery cable starter contactor connection
and the other end to both the alternator lead and the lead to the main
buss, I don't have exactly what is depicted in Z-11, however I like it because
it protects both the 8AWG wires from shorts whereas Z-11 doesn't protect the
lead from the battery contactor to the main buss. But maybe I don't understand
the purpose of this fuse and maybe the alternator output shouldn't be connected
to the main buss without a fuse in between so I thought I'd ask.
Dave Reel - RV8A
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: voltage regulators b&c |
01, 2004) at 10/12/2004 04:47:06 PM
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: james.k.glindemann@exxonmobil.com
Thank you for the reply Bob. Can you tell me if this was just minor
component changes that could be incorporated onto the existing board or a
complete redesign of the circuit.. I am in the avionics/ aircraft
electrical game ( mostly helicopter maintenance ) and am quite capable of
performing the modifications if it is possible.
I have been receiving this list on and off for many years now and find it
very interesting and informative. I mostly like the low cost methods you
and others have highlighted to achieve rather elegant results. Sometimes
things can be done better using methods found in the military or airline
type aircraft, but the cost is just out of this world.
James K Glindemann
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: voltage regulators b&c |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:46 AM 10/13/2004 +1100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: james.k.glindemann@exxonmobil.com
>
>Thank you for the reply Bob. Can you tell me if this was just minor
>component changes that could be incorporated onto the existing board or a
>complete redesign of the circuit.. I am in the avionics/ aircraft
>electrical game ( mostly helicopter maintenance ) and am quite capable of
>performing the modifications if it is possible.
It was a major re-design. LR1 was the first product that flew
on about two dozen OBAM aircraft and Voyager for the closed-circuit
shakedown flight. We discovered some things from field experience
that we didn't like and the LR-2 replaced the LR-1. LR-2 regulators
went around the world. Of course, that was all a long time ago
and the LR3 is up to revision C or so.
I don't even recall now what the differences were. B&C may have
drawings that go back that far. You can always ask.
>I have been receiving this list on and off for many years now and find it
>very interesting and informative. I mostly like the low cost methods you
>and others have highlighted to achieve rather elegant results. Sometimes
>things can be done better using methods found in the military or airline
>type aircraft, but the cost is just out of this world.
Most of what passes for certified doesn't add much value over
and above modern components that evolve while certified components
are frozen in time due to cost of making any changes . . . even
good ones. OBAM aircraft are the future of small GA aircraft.
Bob . . .
---
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator Fuse Location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:55 PM 10/12/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
>
>By wiring one end of my 40 amp fuse to the battery cable starter contactor
>connection and the other end to both the alternator lead and the lead to
>the main buss, I don't have exactly what is depicted in Z-11, however I
>like it because it protects both the 8AWG wires from shorts whereas Z-11
>doesn't protect the lead from the battery contactor to the main buss. But
>maybe I don't understand the purpose of this fuse and maybe the alternator
>output shouldn't be connected to the main buss without a fuse in between
>so I thought I'd ask.
You don't want to use one fuse to "protect" both leads. A fault
in the alternator takes down your main bus normal feed path too.
Recommend you wire as depicted.
Bob . . .
---
Message 9
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Geoff Evans <hellothaimassage@yahoo.com>
Bob.
I'm trying to connect a Flightcom 403mc intercom to a Garmin AT SL-40 radio.
I've read the archives, but the links to the 403mc drawings seem to be no
longer active. I've also spoken with both manufacturers, and they gave me
conflicting or incomplete information.
The 403mc schematic shows 4 wires going to a generic radio: transmit key
line, receive audio, transmit audio, and avionics ground. The line labeled
"avionics ground" comes off pin 1 of the 403mc, which is the same "ground"
used to power the 403mc.
The closest SL-40 schematic shows connecting the SL-40 to an audio panel.
There are 5 connections here: com aduio in, audio ground, com mic audio, mic
ground, and com mic key.
The three connections for transmit, receive, and key are easy to figure out.
The problem I'm having is with the grounds, and I don't want to screw it up
and have to re-do it.
What do I do with the audio ground (pin 13) and mic ground (pin 7)
connections on the SL-40? Do I leave them open, since I'm not connecting any
jacks directly to the SL-40?
Or do I tie them together and connect them to the "avionics ground"? In this
case, pins 13, 7, and 9 of the SL-40 and pin 1 of the 403mc would all be
connected together.
------
Also. The 403mc manual says that you can insulate the headphone jacks (which
I intend to do) and run the return wires back to the intercom. It then goes
on to say "do not use the same ground wire for the headphone and microphone
jacks." The microphone jacks return to pin 13 on the 403mc (mic return), but
where do the headphone jack returns go? Pin 1, the same ground that's used to
power the intercom?
The 403mc manual says to use shielded wire on all jacks. However, it doesn't
say where to connect the sheild. Do I use the shield as the return line and
connect both ends, or do I use a separate wire for the returns and connect
only one end of the shield to a chassis or something?
I'm hoping to avoid the ground loop problem and do this thing right the first
time.
Thanks.
-Geoff
RV-8
__________________________________
Message 10
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
I just installed a Digitrak autopilot in my RV-7, and I wired the dimmer
circuit to my solid state dimmer that feeds the rest of my Nulite rings and
avionics lighting. Problem is, I really want "inverse" dimming
functionality for the Digitrak...in that I want the display brightest in
sunlight, and at night as I turn up my panel lights I want the Digitrak's
display to dim.
I could always rig up a separate dimmer just for the Digitrak, which I would
keep high during the day, low at night...but I'd rather not do that if I can
"automate" the inversion somehow.
I'm sure the answer is simple (I hope), but can the electronics gurus on
this list enlighten me as to how I can rig up something like this?
In case it's a factor, I don't currently have a panel lights switch, they're
on the dimmer's lowest setting all the time (keep warm).
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Power Consumption II |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
How about sharing the load analysis data you have so far? I'm
skeptical of the 19A figure you have now but I'd be pleased to
be shown wrong.
Bob . . .
As I don't have all accurate figures yet, 19 amps was my semi-educated guess.(Accurate
figures is what I'm really in search of right now) Here's how I came up
with it (I assumed cruise flight is what condition I should design for....please
tell me if otherwise):
Accurate figures (from manufacturer /or tag/literaturew/equipment):
Whelen Position Lights 7.4 amps
Whelen Strobe Power Supply 4.0 amps
Garmin GPS/Comm (not x-mitting voice) 1.35 amps
King KT76A Transponder 1.5 amps *
Light Speed Elect. Ign 1.2 amps
Apple I-Pod music input 0.5 amps
Sub-total 15.95 amps
* = Max figure. Honeywell/King wont give avg value.
Semi-Accurate figures (from load analysis of a Europa HB-YK1....a sheet I got off
the list):
Intercom0.16 amps
Turn Coordinator 0.125 amps
Battery Contactor1.0 amps
Sub-total1.285 amps
Total w/o 'Fudge Factor' 17.235 amps
'Fudge-Factor' figures (Guessed what I hope is high 'cuz I don't have anything
to go on):
Engine Instruments, Instrument Lights, Low Voltage Warning, Low Fuel Warning.....1.75
amps
I realize the fudge factor is ridiculously high....was working off memory when
I wrote the original e-mail (besides a factor of safety is good when faced with
a lack of knowledge), but one should still get the points: #1 - I'm looking
for accurateavg power consumption figures formy panel - can anyone help? #2 -
Is the 20 amps - 17, 18 or 19 amps a sufficient margin of safety?
One last point: I don't PLAN on flying at night.....once in a whilethe first or
last30 minutes of a trip.....(anyone can see that leaving the position lights
off puts me well below 20 amps).....but I'd like to know if the electrical system
can handle night flight withouta heavy, front mounted, belt driven alternator.
Again, any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks,
Grant
Rock, jazz, country, soul & more. Find the music you love on MSN Music!
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: SL-40 and 403mc |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Oct 12, 2004, at 7:39 PM, Geoff Evans wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Geoff Evans
> <hellothaimassage@yahoo.com>
>
> Bob.
>
> I'm trying to connect a Flightcom 403mc intercom to a Garmin AT SL-40
> radio.
>
> I've read the archives, but the links to the 403mc drawings seem to be
> no
> longer active. I've also spoken with both manufacturers, and they gave
> me
> conflicting or incomplete information.
>
> The 403mc schematic shows 4 wires going to a generic radio: transmit
> key
> line, receive audio, transmit audio, and avionics ground. The line
> labeled
> "avionics ground" comes off pin 1 of the 403mc, which is the same
> "ground"
> used to power the 403mc.
>
> The closest SL-40 schematic shows connecting the SL-40 to an audio
> panel.
> There are 5 connections here: com aduio in, audio ground, com mic
> audio, mic
> ground, and com mic key.
>
> The three connections for transmit, receive, and key are easy to
> figure out.
> The problem I'm having is with the grounds, and I don't want to screw
> it up
> and have to re-do it.
>
> What do I do with the audio ground (pin 13) and mic ground (pin 7)
> connections on the SL-40? Do I leave them open, since I'm not
> connecting any
> jacks directly to the SL-40?
>
> Or do I tie them together and connect them to the "avionics ground"?
> In this
> case, pins 13, 7, and 9 of the SL-40 and pin 1 of the 403mc would all
> be
> connected together.
Tie the grounds together at the radio. The intercom ground will tie to
The SL-40's audio ground, mic ground, and power ground.
As for your headphone and microphone jacks on the intercom, use the
shields as ground and tie them together at a single point at the
intercom. Do insulate the jacks from the airframe (important for the
mic, less so for the headphones). If you do ground the headphone jacks
to the airframe break the shield at the jack so as to prevent a
possible ground loop.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: inverse dimmer |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Oct 12, 2004, at 10:03 PM, Dan Checkoway wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
> <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> I just installed a Digitrak autopilot in my RV-7, and I wired the
> dimmer
> circuit to my solid state dimmer that feeds the rest of my Nulite
> rings and
> avionics lighting. Problem is, I really want "inverse" dimming
> functionality for the Digitrak...in that I want the display brightest
> in
> sunlight, and at night as I turn up my panel lights I want the
> Digitrak's
> display to dim.
Actually, you want the Digitrak's light to be bright in sunlight and
then dim along with the other panel lights when they are on.
If you use a DPDT switch for your panel lighting you can use the other
pole to switch power to the display light in the Digitrak when the
other lights are switched off. Use a diode from the dimmer circuit to
the digitrak panel light so that when you turn the panel lights off the
current to the digitrak's display lighting doesn't flow back into your
panel lighting circuit.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
Message 14
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| Subject: | Avg Power Consumption III |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
Bob et al,
Please let me clarify that last post: I am very interested in putting a 20 amp
alternator in my plane 'cuz of the weight CG advantages offered. Iwas concerned
that 20 ampsmight not be sufficient outputbut now Ihavesome additional data,
(indirectly from this list - thanks!), that my steady state electrical load
(see below)will be about 16 amps with position lights strobes on.
Seeing as how I don't plan on using position lights strobes together very often
I am installing a 14 AH battery I feel comfortable with the installation.......unless
someone can point out a major flaw in my reasoning......or unless Bob
would strongly recommend against it.
How about sharing the load analysis data you have so far? I'm
skeptical of the 19A figure you have now but I'd be pleased to
be shown wrong.
Bob . . .
As I don't have all accurate figures yet, 19 amps was my semi-educated guess.(Accurate
figures is what I'm really in search of right now) Here's how I came up
with it (I assumed cruise flight is what condition I should design for....please
tell me if otherwise):
Accurate figures (from manufacturer /or tag/literaturew/equipment):
Whelen Position Lights5 amps
Whelen Strobe Power Supply 4.0 amps
Garmin GPS/Comm (not x-mitting voice) 1.35 amps
King KT76A Transponder 1.5 amps *
Light Speed Elect. Ign 1.2 amps
Apple I-Pod music input 0.5 amps
Sub-total 13.45 amps
* = Max figure. Honeywell/King wont give avg value.
Semi-Accurate figures (from load analysis of a Europa HB-YK1....a sheet I got off
the list):
Intercom0.16 amps
Turn Coordinator 0.125 amps
Battery Contactor1.0 amps
Sub-total1.285 amps
Total w/o 'Fudge Factor'~15 amps
'Fudge-Factor' figures (Guessed what I hope is high 'cuz I don't have anything
to go on):
Engine Instruments, Instrument Lights, Low Voltage Warning, Low Fuel Warning.....1
amp
Ithink this fudge factor is stillpretty high....but still thinka bigfactor of safety
is good when faced with a lack of knowledge.
Again, any input will be greatly appreciated. I wont bug the list aboutthis topic
again
Thanks,
Grant
Rock, jazz, country, soul & more. Find the music you love on MSN Music!
Message 15
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| Subject: | Connecting Facet Fuel Pump |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst@taroom.qld.gov.au>
Bob,
I have to connect up a Facet solid state fuel pump as the standard
back-up to the engine driven mechanical fuel pump in my Europa (FRP
construction)
Theoretically, I should probably never have to remove it again but . . .
.
Since the pump has two wires which have to be connected to power and
ground respectively, what method would you prefer I use to make these
two connections bearing in mind that it may have to be disconnected at
some time.
Sorry to bore the list with trivia like this but it seems to be these
little things that I get hung up on.
Thank you
Kingsley Hurst
Europa Mono Classic 281 in Oz
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