Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:31 AM - Aircraft visibility (was something about motorcycles?) (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
2. 05:59 AM - Re: Re: Bendix King Skyforce IIIC GPS (William Yamokoski)
3. 06:14 AM - Re: Disappearing Motorcycles and Airplanes (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:22 AM - Re: Metallic Paint and built in antennas (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 06:28 AM - Re: condenser for aeroflash strobe searched (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 06:29 AM - Carbon Fiber effect on Radio transmission/reception (JSMONDAY@aol.com)
7. 06:34 AM - Re: Re: Disappearing Motorcycles and Airplanes (George Neal E Capt AU/PC)
8. 06:39 AM - Re: Re: Re: Bendix King Skyforce IIIC GPS battery ()
9. 06:51 AM - Disappearing Motorcycles and Airplanes (Glen Matejcek)
10. 07:03 AM - Re: condenser for aeroflash strobe searched (Trampas)
11. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: Disappearing Motorcycles and Airplanes (Dj Merrill)
12. 07:24 AM - Re: Aero Electric-List: Magneto noise (Bill Schlatterer)
13. 08:23 AM - HF and trailing wire antennas (Brian Lloyd)
14. 09:00 AM - Re: Re: Disappearing Motorcycles and Airplanes 0.00 (echristley@nc.rr.com FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received)
15. 09:00 AM - Re: Carbon Fiber effect on Radio (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 09:01 AM - Re: Disappearing Motorcycles and Airplanes (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 09:01 AM - Re: Metallic Paint and built in antennas (Ron Raby)
18. 09:06 AM - Re: Re: Bendix King Skyforce IIIC GPS battery (HAL KEMPTHORNE)
19. 09:07 AM - Re: amateur air mobile (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 09:08 AM - Re: Quality Stick Grips (Richard Riley)
21. 09:59 AM - Harbor Freight has $20 Battery Maintainer (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
22. 10:13 AM - Re: Dynon update (Gerry Holland)
23. 10:43 AM - Re: Harbor Freight has $20 Battery Maintainer 0.00 FORGED_... (WRBYARS@aol.com)
24. 10:47 AM - Re: Harbor Freight has $20 Battery Maintainer 0.00 FORGED_... (BobsV35B@aol.com)
25. 10:54 AM - Re: Dynon update (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
26. 11:22 AM - Re: Re: amateur air mobile 0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO (Dj Merrill)
27. 11:36 AM - Re: Dynon update (Dan Checkoway)
28. 12:02 PM - Re: Re: Disappearing Motorcycles and Airplanes 0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO (Brian Lloyd)
29. 12:02 PM - Re: HF and trailing wire antennas (George Neal E Capt AU/PC)
30. 12:03 PM - Re: Dynon update (Gerry Holland)
31. 12:06 PM - Re: Harbor Freight has $20 Battery Maintainer 0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO (Brian Lloyd)
32. 12:52 PM - Re: Re: amateur air mobile (Joe Dubner)
33. 01:01 PM - Re: HF and trailing wire antennas (Brian Lloyd)
34. 01:22 PM - Re: Re: amateur air mobile (Brian Lloyd)
35. 01:54 PM - Re: Harbor Freight has $20 Battery Maintainer 0.00 FORGED_... (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
36. 03:13 PM - $20 Battery Maintainer (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
37. 03:16 PM - line of sight communication (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
38. 03:43 PM - Re: line of sight communication 0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO 1.40 DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX Date: is 96 hours or more after Received: date (Gary Craze)
39. 03:46 PM - Re: line of sight communication 0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO 1.40 DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX Date: is 96 hours or more after Received: date ()
40. 03:48 PM - Re: $20 Battery Maintainer 0.01 SUBJ_DOLLARS Subject starts with dollar amount 0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO 1.40 DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX Date: is 96 hours or more after Received: date (dsvs@comcast.net)
41. 07:29 PM - Re: line of sight communication 0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO (Dj Merrill)
42. 08:03 PM - Re: line of sight communication (Brian Lloyd)
43. 08:54 PM - Early Aviation Radios (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
44. 09:03 PM - Re: Re: amateur air mobile (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
45. 09:16 PM - Re: Line of sight communication (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
46. 09:38 PM - Re: $20 Battery Maintainer (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Aircraft visibility (was something about motorcycles?) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
I recall seeing an article in (I believe) Southern Aviator a few years back
about a Spitfire recon plane that was painted pink (and still is) owned by
someone in the Southeast U.S. The color reportedly blended in with the
morning/evening sky color making it more difficult to spot...
FWIW from The PossumWorks in TN - RV STILL unpainted, but it won't be PINK!
8-)
Mark Phillips - do not archive
Message 2
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battery
| Subject: | Re: RE: Bendix King Skyforce IIIC GPS |
battery
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk@lakemichigancollege.edu>
Hi Folks,
I thought technology was supposed to get cheaper as time marched on:) I bought
a Skyforce IIIC in 2000 for $1645. Guess they figure they've got a pretty
good product.
Bill Yamokoski, N4970Y
410 hrs on the Glastar/Eggensoob
Also, the price is only $875 Vs $2100 at Vans. I'm going with
the II for the above reasons and spend the $1200 bucks on something else.
Rick Fogerson
RV3 90%
Boise, ID
From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Bendix King Skyforce IIIC GPS battery
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Thanks Chuck,
>
> This is just what I need. I am in ABQ this week, so
> I'll order one when I get home and have this thing up
> and running over $100 cheaper.
>
> I appreciate all the responces,
>
> Kurt S. KitFox S-5/NSI turbo
>
> --- Chuck Jensen <cjensen@dts9000.com> wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Chuck
>> Jensen <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>>
>> For all the DIYs. The disassembly is not difficult
>> but as you work your way
>> down through the board levels, just remove the
>> screws and clips as you go.
>> The battery leads are soldered directly onto the
>> board. Use a solder-sucker
>> to desolder the pigtail joints. Put the new battery
>> pigtails in place,
>> soldered it (not too many close-by components to be
>> heat damaged) and
>> reassemble. Plug in, turn on and allow internal
>> battery to charge up.
>>
>> Cycle unit off/on. The database will likely be
>> corrupted (it's probably a
>> Political Database). If the memory is corrupted, go
>> into SETUP and clear
>> memory. The code to clear memory is either 3-3-3-3
>> or 1-2-3-4. When the
>> memory is cleared, your pin number is reset to
>> 1-2-3-4. You will lose all
>> your saved flight plans and/or waypoints, but that's
>> not the end of the
>> world!
>>
>> Kurt, an external battery may get disconnected, or
>> not charged; each time
>> resulting in loss of your memory and corrupted
>> database. Replacing the
>> internal battery is a once-every-5-year project and
>> takes less than an
>> hour...2 hours for the dexterity-challenged. Not a
>> big deal.
>>
>> As to the battery itself, the McMaster-Carr P/N is
>> 6951K999 and the
>> description is "disposable lithium battery Hawker
>> Entercell 3.7V TO6/8AA TCL
>> with one wire pigtail each end." Price was $13.46
>> with $3.45 shipping.
>>
>> Chuck
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Disappearing Motorcycles and Airplanes |
0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:49 PM 10/28/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
>
>The third paragraph at
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583/project389.html says 10
>sealed beams.
>Further down it talks about electochromatic panels but I think the age
>of radar etc has likely ended most research into this.
>Ken
Interesting! Thanks for the heads up on this. I don't know what
I spelled wrong in my original searches but didn't turn up nearly
as many hits on the concept as another search this morning.
This anecdote underscores the nature of simple-ideas combined with
the grey-matter of several individuals to sift through data (not
the least of which is historical) and achieve understanding.
I'm doing a white paper for RAC right now on an electrical system
upgrade to one of our airplanes. One of the most interesting (and
revealing) aspects of the work is the historical study. It serves
to illuminate how far back in time and technology the roots of our
products go (and how far behind they are today!). It's been an
interesting project.
Did you know that electrical systems were being placed on airplanes
as early as 1915? Less than 10 years after the Brothers sold the
Army its first airplane, they were running radio transmitters into
trailing wire antennas powered by wind driven generators?
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
---
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Metallic Paint and built in antennas |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:10 AM 10/28/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bristolsabre@aol.com
>
>I plan to use metallic paint on my composite Mustang replica.
>The radio and VOR antennas are inside the verical and horizontal surfaces.
>I have heard from other builders that this will work, but none have been able
>to tell me if the signal strenght/range is affected.
>Anybody have any experience with this?
>Tore
That's easy. it IS affected. Now's the hard part. Few folks
will be able to tell you how much and even if we could
tell you EXACTLY (Hey, Tore. Putting that antenna inside the
vertical fin as you've described is going to attenuate your
signal by 1.383 dB), how would that help you?
Is changing paint an option? If not, use what you've planned.
If radio performance proves to be less than satisfactory, then
you KNOW where your investigation for improved performance will
begin. You may find that the antennas work fine for the way
you use your airplane and no further action is called for.
Bob . . .
---
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: condenser for aeroflash strobe searched |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:27 PM 10/28/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker
><retasker@optonline.net>
>
>It would be 180 uF, but I can't help you with anything else unfortunately.
>
>Dick Tasker
>
>Werner Schneider wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider"
> <glastar@gmx.net>
> >
> >I need the investigation capabilities of the list once more!
> >
> >One of my Aeroflash strobe units Part NO. Power Supply: 152-0007 12V Single
> >Flash just gave up with a leaking Elco
> >
> >The problem is, the label is no longer readable, it could be a 0 or an U
> >
> >Elco: United Chemi-Con 180(0)F or (U)F 350VDC 85C
> >
> >the second problem is that this was a custom made elco for Aeroflash with a
> >low diameter to fit into the housing.
> >
> >Did anybody replace such a condenser in an Aeroflash unit and where did you
> >get the replacement part?
> >
> >Many thanks for your help
I saw a strobe supply somewhere (OSH Flymarket perhaps) where the
owner had drilled holes in the case and brought leads out to an
external capacitor mounted on the outside. Will never know exactly
why this happened but it seems likely that he could not find an
exact replacement and the capacitor he had was too big to fit
inside. You need a photo-flash capacitor of 180uF/350V ratings.
It if doesn't fit inside, the electrons will not be insulted if
you bolt it up to the outside. Resist any urges to make your strobe
put out more Joules per flash by increasing capacitor size above
180uF . . . this puts more strain on several critical parts of
the system and may shorten life dramatically.
Bob . . .
---
Message 6
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| Subject: | Carbon Fiber effect on Radio transmission/reception |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: JSMONDAY@aol.com
Since metallic paint was a topic.... how much does carbon fiber affect radio
transmission/reception??
Thanks,
John S. Monday
Message 7
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0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received": contains.a.forged.HELO@matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Disappearing Motorcycles and Airplanes |
0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
Trailing wire...hmmmm
CQDX CQDX CQDX...N8ZG airborne mobile
Nothing like combining hobbies!
Neal:)
Army its first airplane, they were running radio transmitters into
trailing wire antennas powered by wind driven generators?
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Bendix King Skyforce IIIC GPS battery |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Skyforce is owned by King now. They aren't cheap on anything.
Charlie Kuss
do not archieve
>
> From: "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk@lakemichigancollege.edu>
> Date: 2004/10/29 Fri AM 08:58:19 EDT
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> battery
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Bendix King Skyforce IIIC GPS
> battery
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Disappearing Motorcycles and Airplanes |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Bob et al-
I think I've got the disappearing airplane figured out.... First, there
was a camouflage scheme for warships in WWII. I believe it was called
'dazzle' and it basically mimicked the contours of the bow and stern along
the hull in various shades of grey. It wouldn't make the ship invisible,
it just screwed up it's apparent length. Without a good value for the
apparent length, range was impossible to calculate properly. With out
proper range information, you couldn't actually hit the ship, even if you
could see it.
Now, if these airframe mounted lights were located along the leading edges
and nose of the plane such that the silhouette was changed, the apparent
size and therefore the apparent range of the plane would be altered. It
might even cause mis-identification of the aircraft type, confusing the AA
gunners even more.
Further proof of the effectiveness of this technique can be found in an old
black and white documentary that has been playing on the cable channels
lately. I suspect that this detail slipped by the censors inadvertently,
but towards the end of the piece, there is exterior footage of a B-52
flying a low level mission over a lot of snow and ice. Occasionally you
can see it's shadow. The shadow is clearly that of a B-17. Now that would
have to confuse a gunner! BTW, I think the name of the documentary was
Doctor Strangelove....
Now, where did I leave my medication, and do not archive!
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 10
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| Subject: | condenser for aeroflash strobe searched |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
A good source for flash capacitors is the cheap disposable camera's with
flashes. Not sure what value etc they are but it might be an option.
Regards,
Trampas
www.sterntech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: condenser for aeroflash strobe searched
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:27 PM 10/28/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker
><retasker@optonline.net>
>
>It would be 180 uF, but I can't help you with anything else unfortunately.
>
>Dick Tasker
>
>Werner Schneider wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider"
> <glastar@gmx.net>
> >
> >I need the investigation capabilities of the list once more!
> >
> >One of my Aeroflash strobe units Part NO. Power Supply: 152-0007 12V
Single
> >Flash just gave up with a leaking Elco
> >
> >The problem is, the label is no longer readable, it could be a 0 or an U
> >
> >Elco: United Chemi-Con 180(0)F or (U)F 350VDC 85C
> >
> >the second problem is that this was a custom made elco for Aeroflash with
a
> >low diameter to fit into the housing.
> >
> >Did anybody replace such a condenser in an Aeroflash unit and where did
you
> >get the replacement part?
> >
> >Many thanks for your help
I saw a strobe supply somewhere (OSH Flymarket perhaps) where the
owner had drilled holes in the case and brought leads out to an
external capacitor mounted on the outside. Will never know exactly
why this happened but it seems likely that he could not find an
exact replacement and the capacitor he had was too big to fit
inside. You need a photo-flash capacitor of 180uF/350V ratings.
It if doesn't fit inside, the electrons will not be insulted if
you bolt it up to the outside. Resist any urges to make your strobe
put out more Joules per flash by increasing capacitor size above
180uF . . . this puts more strain on several critical parts of
the system and may shorten life dramatically.
Bob . . .
---
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Disappearing Motorcycles and Airplanes |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
George Neal E Capt AU/PC wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
>
> Trailing wire...hmmmm
> CQDX CQDX CQDX...N8ZG airborne mobile
> Nothing like combining hobbies!
>
> Neal:)
What, don't you carry your amateur handheld with
you in the plane now? A mile high is an awesome
antenna location for 2m and 73cm... *grin*
I haven't tried shortwave, though.
-Dj
Message 12
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| Subject: | RE: Aero Electric-List: Magneto noise |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
I think the issue is explained on page 16-13 of the Connection. Just
happened to be reading that section.
Bill S
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt
Prather
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Magneto noise
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Hi Mike,
This is a pretty common problem... You can look in the archives to
see other similar questions. More comments/questions embedded
below...
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Danielle"
> <mikeda@cascadeaccess.com>
>
> AAARRRRGGGGHHHH! Frustration is rampant here. I own a Great Lakes
> replica powered by a Ranger engine. Very simple electrical system with
> only nav lights and an ICOM A-200 radio. I've got very loud magneto
> noise which cannot be overcome with the radio's squelch. The noise can
> be totally eliminated by turning off the left magneto. This has been a
> long standing problem. I've changed my antenna to one of AAE's dipole
> designs. (no ground plane required) I've had my magnetos overhauled
> recently and the full shielded modifications installed. All plug wires
> are shielded as are the p leads. The p lead shields are grounded at the
> magnetos. At the panel, the p lead shields are gounded at the common
> ground.
>
I assume you mean that the p-lead shields are connected to the
magneto bodies, and nowhere else (on the engine end)?
What did they replace (if anything) during the overhaul? Did they get
new cap's/condensors?
It's interesting to me that only turning off the left mag alleviates the
problem. Is there any chance that you have a 'hot' mag? Will the
engine continue to run with both mag switches turned off?
> Here's my question for you Bob. In your appendix "Z" figure z-26 you
> show the p lead shields jointly grounded to the left mag switch. The
> right mag switch is independently grounded. Your notes to this figure
> state that the shields should not be attached to any form of ground at
> the panel. My shields just go to the same common ground that both mag
> switches share. Is this a likely cause of my noise problem?
>
Typically, its best if the switch end of the p-lead circuit is floating -
the noise
induced on the p-lead shield by the running magneto can be 'injected' into
the ground path for other components by conduction. If the shield is only
connected to ground at the mag, then the only method to propagate noise
is by radiation - much less likely to cause problems - esp since the
shielded
wire is coax. Having the shields connected to each other at the switches
probably won't cause any issues, but by the same token it serves no useful
purpose.
I think it would be better if people stopped thinking about grounding the
mag to turn it off. Instead, we should decide that each mag requires two
wires to control it. To turn the mag on, the two wires should be
disconnected
from each other, and to turn it off, they should be connected. This whole
grounding it has caused more headaches for more people than I care to
think about..
> Lastly, you've mentioned in several of your replies that many noise
> problems have been eliminated by removing the p lead shield grounding at
> the panel entirely. Is this a better way to go?
>
Probably.
> Thanks
> Long Lurking Mike
>
>
In my plastic airplane, even after I did what was described above, I still
ended up with a fairly large amount of radiated noise - even with the p-lead
and shield completely disconnected from the magneto. I installed a lonestar
mag filter cap (for Bendix mags only, I think), which significantly
reduced the
noise.
Regards,
Matt-
Message 13
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| Subject: | HF and trailing wire antennas |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Oct 29, 2004, at 9:34 AM, George Neal E Capt AU/PC wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC
> <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
>
> Trailing wire...hmmmm
> CQDX CQDX CQDX...N8ZG airborne mobile
> Nothing like combining hobbies!
I had such a rig in my Comanche for my ocean crossings. I changed the
heterodyne crystals in my Collins KWM-2 transceiver to put it on the
aviation frequencies and fed an adjustable-length trailing wire antenna
using a plastic funnel as a drogue. I had calculated the number of
turns on the crank to let out the proper length wire for each of the
frequencies. I had an SWR bridge so I could fine-tune the length of
the antenna for lowest SWR. Surprisingly, it worked pretty well.
Nowadays general-coverage transceivers are much easier to come by as
are automatic antenna tuners. It is almost worth it to install HF in
any airplane especially since some of these radios also can be made to
transmit AM on the aviation frequencies (the Icom IC-706mkIIg comes to
mind here). This strikes me as a good thing as a potential backup.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Disappearing Motorcycles and Airplanes 0.00 |
FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: echristley@nc.rr.com FORGED_RCVD_HELO
Received: contains a forged HELO
>
> Did you know that electrical systems were being
placed on airplanes
> as early as 1915? Less than 10 years after the
Brothers sold the
> Army its first airplane, they were running radio
transmitters into
> trailing wire antennas powered by wind driven
generators?
>
> Bob . . .
>
Say, WHAT?!
Was it actual voice systems or morse code?
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Carbon Fiber effect on Radio |
transmission/reception
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
transmission/reception
At 09:29 AM 10/29/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: JSMONDAY@aol.com
>
>Since metallic paint was a topic.... how much does carbon fiber affect radio
>transmission/reception??
Carbon fiber is a severe attenuator. It's a sure bet that
antennas mounting within a carbon fiber airplane will
be unsatisfactory.
Carbon fiber is a good enough conductor that we intially
thought it would substitute for aluminum as an antenna
ground plane. It's good, but not THAT good. Our antenna
installations now get aluminum ground planes added on the
underside of the skin.
Bob . . .
---
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Disappearing Motorcycles and Airplanes |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>Further proof of the effectiveness of this technique can be found in an old
>black and white documentary that has been playing on the cable channels
>lately. I suspect that this detail slipped by the censors inadvertently,
>but towards the end of the piece, there is exterior footage of a B-52
>flying a low level mission over a lot of snow and ice. Occasionally you
>can see it's shadow. The shadow is clearly that of a B-17. Now that would
>have to confuse a gunner! BTW, I think the name of the documentary was
>Doctor Strangelove....
Gee . . . saw that movie just a few weeks ago . . . now I need to
go watch it again . . .
Bob . . .
---
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Metallic Paint and built in antennas |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron Raby" <ronr@advanceddesign.com>
I would check with the paint mfg to see if the metal in the paint is
actually metal. I was told that it may actually be some sort of fine ground
up plastic material.
Regards
Ron Raby
Lancair ES
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Metallic Paint and built in antennas
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 11:10 AM 10/28/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bristolsabre@aol.com
> >
> >I plan to use metallic paint on my composite Mustang replica.
> >The radio and VOR antennas are inside the verical and horizontal
surfaces.
> >I have heard from other builders that this will work, but none have been
able
> >to tell me if the signal strenght/range is affected.
> >Anybody have any experience with this?
> >Tore
>
> That's easy. it IS affected. Now's the hard part. Few folks
> will be able to tell you how much and even if we could
> tell you EXACTLY (Hey, Tore. Putting that antenna inside the
> vertical fin as you've described is going to attenuate your
> signal by 1.383 dB), how would that help you?
>
> Is changing paint an option? If not, use what you've planned.
> If radio performance proves to be less than satisfactory, then
> you KNOW where your investigation for improved performance will
> begin. You may find that the antennas work fine for the way
> you use your airplane and no further action is called for.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ---
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Bendix King Skyforce IIIC GPS battery |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: HAL KEMPTHORNE <hal_kempthorne@sbcglobal.net>
I've had a II almost since they first came out. I have seen used ones on ebay
for much less than $900 - like $350 or so I think. They use six AA batts and
if NiCad they will recharge when plugged into system. I mounted mine on a hinge
so it can be used in the Sierra backcountry in Bubba as well as airplane.
hal
Rick Fogerson <rickf@cableone.net> wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson"
For those who don't have to have color but still have all the navigational
capabilities, the skymap II is worth considering. It does not have the
internal battery problem to deal with, has rechargeble battery backup if you
lose your electrical, weighs about 1/2 and is 1/2 the depth of the III so it
can be mounted on the front of the panel, and requires only 20% of the watts
of the III. Also, the price is only $875 Vs $2100 at Vans.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: amateur air mobile |
0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:19 AM 10/29/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill
><deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
>
>George Neal E Capt AU/PC wrote:
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC
> <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
> >
> > Trailing wire...hmmmm
> > CQDX CQDX CQDX...N8ZG airborne mobile
> > Nothing like combining hobbies!
> >
> > Neal:)
>
> What, don't you carry your amateur handheld with
>you in the plane now? A mile high is an awesome
>antenna location for 2m and 73cm... *grin*
>I haven't tried shortwave, though.
I helped a Long-Ez owner in Brazil install an HF transceiver
for over the ocean hops . . . his back seat was an aux fuel
tank. He used it for both aviation contact and entertainment
on the ham bands.
I've used my 2m hand held from the cockpit. Soon learned that
you couldn't work repeaters from 10,000 feet. You hit to many
machines at once. I'd put out a call on a repeater's input
frequency and told prospective listeners that I'd listen and
conduct the conversation on another simplex/direct frequency.
It wasn't uncommon to have a conversation with someone over
100 miles away.
Bob . . .
---
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Quality Stick Grips |
reflector@tvbf.org, aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
<20041029141032.14109.qmail@web90010.mail.scd.yahoo.com>
0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley <richard@riley.net>
At 07:10 AM 10/29/04, "Jim, Jim Monti, Monti" <toflylow@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Morning Richard,
>
>Sorry for the delay in replying. I was off doing other
>things and not looking at anything on Yahoo for a
>while..
That's fine, I'll post my reply to the email sites to make sure you get it.
>--- Richard Riley <richard@riley.net> wrote:
> > At 05:42 AM 10/5/04, you wrote:
> > >Morning Richard,
> > >
> > >I am an outside observer of some emails to a couple
> > >of different sites.
> > >
> > >I have a question.
> > >
> > >Where did you get your information about the
> > >Infinity Aerospace Grips?
> > >
> > >As an engineer and long time private pilot, and
> > >there is nothing else on the market for the price,
> > >and quality that fits the capabilities of the
> > >Infinity Aerospace grip.
> > >
> > >Would like to hear your comments.
> > >
> > >Howard
> >
> > I've dealt with him - and with people who've dealt
> > with him - for 12
> > years. Though I agree with you that the grips are
> > OK, they're hardly the only thing out there. CH
> > makes a good one for less.
>
>If you are sitting still, on the ground, the switches
>in a CH grip may be alright, but you WANT more force
>required if you are bouncing around in turbulence
>(sp).... You NEED a very noticeable tactile response
>out of the switch and the CH switches AREN'T good for
>that.
The CH stick I have is exactly that. The switches aren't the same as the
computer joystick, their activation force is probably a pound or so. In
the same range as the Infinity stick.
> > Automatic Flagman makes a very good one for a little
> > more (they changed their name, I can't remember what
> > the new one is, something like Stick Grips Inc.)
>
>Sorry a toy grip isn't what I want to put my life on.
The Flagman grip is anything but a toy. Aircraft Spruce has them in 2 and
4 switch models, $130 and $185. The sample I saw was covered in
beautifully sewn molded leather. They were originally made for the
cropdusting industry, where you spend 12 hours a day with the stick grip in
your hand. That's what the "flagman" refers to.
> > I was given one of his grips and took it apart.
> > It's fine, but nothing special. The switches are
> > better than the ones on computer joysticks but
> > they're all available from Mouser or Digikey.
>
>Yes and your point..... Digikey and the like are sites
>for small quantities of components. Unless you are
>buying 500K quantities, the switch MFGRs won't give
>you good prices or the time of day.... I have used
>Digikey for small quantities for years.
Exactly. If, for example, you're buying a Thrustmaster Fighter-X grip, and
changing out the 5 switches so they're higher force, it will cost all of
$10 for the stick and $20 for the switches. Yes, it will take an evening's
work to retrofit them (hint - for drilling out the holes where the switch
caps go, a unibit is very handy) but we're building our own AIRPLANES from
scratch. A couple of hours work on a stick grip is hardly challenging.
If I can buy all the switches I need form Digikey for a price that's low, I
don't care if I can talk to the manufacturers or not. That's why stocking
distributors exist.
> > Or if you keep your eyes open, you can buy a real
> > B-8 grip for less than he
> > charges. I got a grip from an Apache helicopter for
> > $100.
>
>And it was worn out, and you have to expend your time
>and money to repair it.
Actually, no, it wasn't. Certainly the helicopter it was from had to have
been scrap, but the grip itself had seen very little use. It's all a
matter of shopping around and finding what's right for you. I had to expend
time to adapt it, but I would have had to do the same thing with an
Infinity grip - as you know, all homebuilts are different, and no matter
what grip you use you'll have to make it work with a homebuilt.
>My point is... it is one thing to try and save money,
>but safety and functionality are FIRST.
>
>I have consulted as a mechanical engineer in the
>consumer market, military market, and commercial
>market for years (like 25 year), and you don't want a
>toy switch being the failure point one day when you
>life might depend on it.
So, don't use toy switches. If you're adapting from a computer joystick,
use switches from Digikey. Pick what activation force you want, what cap
size and color, and install them. You'll have a stick that's better than
Infinity's, at a lower price, and the satisfaction of knowing that you did
it yourself. If you want real, genuine brand new NASA/Milspec switches and
you're willing to pay for them, you can get them (I use Flame Enterprises,
www.flamecorp.com). If you want commercial grade switches that are good
for 100,000 cycles, use Mouser.
In either case, for heaven's sake don't wire your airplane so that if a
single switch on your joystick fails you're going to crash. You can safely
finish a flight without a push to talk button, or an ident button, or a
starter, or whatever else you're going to put on a stick. Your trim forces
shouldn't be so strong that you can't survive runaway trim. If something
can fail, 1) examine the consequences of that failure 2) minimize the risk
and 3) build in redundancy. My design goal is that no single failure in
ANY system is non-survivable. (I can't quite get there - the primary wing
carry-through structure always seems to be a single point failure.) But I
always have 2 layers of redundancy in my electrical system. A switch
failing in my joystick doesn't qualify as an emergency, much less immediate
flaming death.
If it did, I would never use a joystick that cost as little as the
Infinity. My life is worth more than that.
> > If you just want to save money, buy a Thrustmaster
> > "Top Gun" computer joystick on Ebay
> > for $10 and change the push switches for $5 each.
> > Leave the hat switch,
> > it's the same as the one Infinity uses.
>
>NO it's not the same one, I know....
It may not be today, but 4 years ago I took them both apart. The hat
switches had the same part number stamped on the side.
It's not like there's another large demand elsewhere for inexpensive 4-way
hat switches shaped like that. There are the milspec switches, but they
run $50-100. http://www.ottoeng.com/control/togglemt_t4.htm. Neither
Thrustmaster or Infinity is using those.
Remember, the "toy" switches are spec'ed for 10 time the use of a milspec
switch - 1 million cycles for the toy, 100,000 for the millspec. The toy
sees more use in an hour killing space aliens than an aircraft trim switch
will see in it's lifetime.
> > The Thrustmaster grips are nice
> > because they have soft rubber inserts where you
> > grip, and come in a large and small size.
>
>Do you have any idea what the cost of injection
>molding tools are...... apparently not... The tools
>for one grip (2 halves) in good steel, will be $15K to
>$20K. The cost of those tools are included in the
>first 4K sets of "sold" sets, they aren't freebies. SO
>there is a cost of custom plastics that the end user
>is helping to pat for.
Um.... So? The point is I can get a very nice stick grip, with rubber
inserts in the side, for about $10 on Ebay. $15 if you include
shipping. Given that fact, it doesn't matter to me how much the tooling is
- I'm sure given their volumes that CH and Thrustmaster are spending a lot
more on their tooling than Jim is. If Jim has to amortize the cost of his
tooling over a smaller production run, that's his problem, not his
customer's. If there's a grip that serves the purpose, adapted from a much
larger run and therefor cheaper, the customer is the one that should make
the decision and get the benefit. Jim isn't guaranteed a profit. If
there's a better choice out there, people will take it. Welcome to the
miracle that is the free market.
Thank goodness Nippondenso makes millions of alternators per year. If we
had to pay for the development costs for alternators on a volume of 1000
homebuilt aircraft per year, they'd be $5,000 each.
> > Actually, his early grips were surplus cast
> > urethane foam he bought from Thrustmaster.
> > I know because I bought some too, and they
> > told me.
>
>I was trying to save money back then.
You were? Or Jim was? I'm confused. Are you in business with him? Or is
"Howard" Jim himself?
>I place a value on my time. I consult for $65/hr doing
>plastics design (hold several patents for my designs).
>I used to do home additions at one time in my life for
>a couple of years at $20/hr,
Everyone building a homebuilt aircraft makes a similar calculation. We
have a source of income, or we couldn't afford the expensive bits. At the
same time, we've decided that we want to do most or all of the work
ourselves, rather than paying someone else to do it.
>I won't burn my time and energy trying to save a few
>dollars, because my time is more valuable than that.
So why are you building your own airplane?
>My safety in flight is more valuable than that.
If you don't think that something you build is as safe or safer than
something you buy, why are you building your own airplane?
>If you want to use a toy to affect your safety while
>flying, that is your choice.
1) I'm not using toy switches - my grip is Milspec, from an AH-64. 2) Toy
switches are made to see a LOT of use. 3) Someone who builds or adapts
their own grip doesn't have to use toy switches, he can buy commercial or
milspec grade switches easily.
>I don't think redoing another assembly is good use of
>my time.
Then you are probably better off buying a production airplane. "Redoing
another assembly" is certainly faster than building complex parts from scratch.
>Have a nice day.
>
>Howard
And you as well.
Richard
Message 21
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| Subject: | Harbor Freight has $20 Battery Maintainer |
0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/HF_Battery_Maintainer.jpg
I've had one a couple of days playing with it. It looks good.
It sells for 2/3 to 1/2 similar products.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
---
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon update |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
Mike Hi!
> a quick search of the RV-List will reveal some details here.
> I have 30 emails from rv'ers who experience this problem. It is my
> personal opinion that it is a fleet wide problem. Not installation, not
> unique to a device. I know of 6 personally in my home town alone with
> this problem. I can readily reproduce it. I was the first to do so. We
> have been working different software resolutions. Dynon can now readily
> reproduce the problem as well.
Many thanks for this feedback. Will keep an eye on the developments.
Gerry
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight has $20 Battery Maintainer 0.00 |
FORGED_...
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: WRBYARS@aol.com
I heard about "battery desulfators" a couple of years ago so did some
research on them and found that they had positive benefits.
I bought one for under $75 bucks and started testing it on all the old
"dead" batteries that I could find, low and behold, it worked.
I've been using it on all our cars, trucks, motorcycles and airplane and
after "rejuvenating " the battery we would use the automatic trickle charge
function to maintain the charge. I'm very impressed with this little unit and
recommend it to anyone that wants to save their batteries from dying prematurely.
Bill
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight has $20 Battery Maintainer 0.00 |
FORGED_...
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 10/29/2004 12:43:56 PM Central Standard Time,
WRBYARS@aol.com writes:
I heard about "battery desulfators" a couple of years ago so did some
research on them and found that they had positive benefits.
I bought one for under $75 bucks and started testing it on all the old
"dead" batteries that I could find, low and behold, it worked.
I've been using it on all our cars, trucks, motorcycles and airplane and
after "rejuvenating " the battery we would use the automatic trickle charge
function to maintain the charge. I'm very impressed with this little unit
and
recommend it to anyone that wants to save their batteries from dying
prematurely.
Bill
Good Morning Bill,
Could you supply a manufacturer, model and source?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Message 25
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
Gerry
I can tell you one I know for sure is Mike Stewart from Team RV, he has
a write up on it.
Hope this helps
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry
Holland
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dynon update
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland
--> <gnholland@onetel.com>
Larry Hi
> That is one big disappointment with the problems many are
> experiencing with the attitude display drifting 10-15 degrees. I just
> hope someone does not get killed before they decide to make *IT* their
priority.
What is the basis for stating 'many'. Who is assembling this vast number
of complainants as inferred by you above.
Two things:
How many?
Where can they be found registered?
BTW. The Dynon is a non-IFR certified device, well here in Europe at
least.
That doesn't mean it shouldn't work OK but in the same light peddling
information on poor or inadequate performance needs facts too. Can we
have them other than the one or two RV Builders who have experienced an
'occurrence'.
I'm not challenging you. Would just like facts rather than an
unsubstantiated statement.
I use a Dynon!
Regards
Gerry
Europa 384 G-FIZY
Trigear with Rotax 912 and Arplast CS Prop.
Dynon EFIS, KMD 150, Icom A-200 and SL70 Transponder.
PSS AoA Fitted.
http://www.g-fizy.com
Mobile: +44 7808 402404
WebFax: +44 870 7059985
gnholland@onetel.com
==
==
==
==
Message 26
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|
Received": contains.a.forged.HELO@matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: amateur air mobile 0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO |
Received: contains a forged HELO
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> It wasn't uncommon to have a conversation with someone over
> 100 miles away.
That's awesome... :-)
-Dj
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon update |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
FYI,
I just installed Dynon's latest beta OS, 1.9.10, and so far it's working
perfectly. I've only flown it once (about to fly it again in a few minutes)
but so far so good. I reserve the right to update this later if the
symptoms show up again...
The guys at Dynon mentioned that if this latest OS doesn't fix the issue
(which it apparently has in other installations as well), then they asked me
to do more data logging through the 2nd serial port. If analyzing the data
doesn't turn anything up, they mentioned the possibility of sending somebody
out to fly with me to see and evaluate the issue more closely.
Anyway, like I said things look much better as of 1.9.10. But if it's not,
the company is definitely making it a priority to resolve the issue. I have
faith in these guys.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dynon update
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R."
<LloydDR@wernerco.com>
>
> Gerry
> I can tell you one I know for sure is Mike Stewart from Team RV, he has
> a write up on it.
> Hope this helps
> Dan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry
> Holland
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dynon update
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland
> --> <gnholland@onetel.com>
>
> Larry Hi
>
> > That is one big disappointment with the problems many are
> > experiencing with the attitude display drifting 10-15 degrees. I just
>
> > hope someone does not get killed before they decide to make *IT* their
> priority.
>
> What is the basis for stating 'many'. Who is assembling this vast number
> of complainants as inferred by you above.
>
> Two things:
>
> How many?
>
> Where can they be found registered?
>
> BTW. The Dynon is a non-IFR certified device, well here in Europe at
> least.
> That doesn't mean it shouldn't work OK but in the same light peddling
> information on poor or inadequate performance needs facts too. Can we
> have them other than the one or two RV Builders who have experienced an
> 'occurrence'.
>
> I'm not challenging you. Would just like facts rather than an
> unsubstantiated statement.
>
> I use a Dynon!
>
> Regards
>
> Gerry
>
> Europa 384 G-FIZY
> Trigear with Rotax 912 and Arplast CS Prop.
> Dynon EFIS, KMD 150, Icom A-200 and SL70 Transponder.
> PSS AoA Fitted.
>
> http://www.g-fizy.com
> Mobile: +44 7808 402404
> WebFax: +44 870 7059985
> gnholland@onetel.com
>
>
> ==
> ==
> ==
> ==
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Disappearing Motorcycles and Airplanes 0.00 |
FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: echristley@nc.rr.com
>
>
>>
>> Did you know that electrical systems were being
> placed on airplanes
>> as early as 1915? Less than 10 years after the
> Brothers sold the
>> Army its first airplane, they were running radio
> transmitters into
>> trailing wire antennas powered by wind driven
> generators?
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>
> Say, WHAT?!
>
> Was it actual voice systems or morse code?
Code. They were spark transmitters but I believe they used
vacuum-tube-based receivers. Tube-based CW transmitters didn't show up
really until the end of WW-I. Voice transmission started a few years
later.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 29
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| Subject: | HF and trailing wire antennas |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
Brian -
I haven't seen you in my shop, but now I know who's been reading my notes
and leaving cookie crumbs on the bench. N8ZG's panel *will* contain a 706.
73... neal
(the Icom IC-706mkIIg comes to mind here). This strikes me as a good thing
as a potential backup.
Brian Lloyd
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon update |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
Dan Hi!
> I can tell you one I know for sure is Mike Stewart from Team RV, he has
> a write up on it.
Thanks for feedback and direction.
Regards
Gerry
do not archive
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight has $20 Battery Maintainer 0.00 |
FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Oct 29, 2004, at 12:58 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> I've had one a couple of days playing with it. It looks good.
> It sells for 2/3 to 1/2 similar products.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> < Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
> < of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
> < exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
> < work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
> < despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
> < by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
> < minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
> < happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
> < then slip back into abject poverty. >
> < >
> < This is known as "bad luck". >
> < -Lazarus Long- >
> <------------------------------------------------------>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
Ah Bob, a man who quotes Heinlein is a man after my own heart.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
--Lazarus Long (AKA Robert A. Heinlein)
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: amateur air mobile |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joe Dubner <jdubner@yahoo.com>
On 29-Oct-04 09:07 Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> I helped a Long-Ez owner in Brazil install an HF transceiver
> for over the ocean hops . . . his back seat was an aux fuel
> tank. He used it for both aviation contact and entertainment
> on the ham bands.
Bob,
Two questions, please . . .
What did he use for an antenna? I've had an Icom IC-706 in my Long-EZ
for the past year for 2m FM and entertainment but haven't solved the HF
antenna dilemma yet.
How does he deal with the EMI situation running 100W? My meager 10W of
RF on 146 MHz does a number on the engine gauges, particularly those
that run unshielded wire to their senders. Key the mic and pick up 500
RPM -- best thing since nitrous oxide :-)
(For those not familiar with the Long-EZ, it uses composite construction
with a rear-mounted engine that requires 10 - 12 feet of connecting wire
to reach the instrument panel. On my airplane the 2m antenna is a
vertical dipole in one winglet, the aircraft comm antenna is another
vertical dipole in the other winglet, and the VOR antenna (which I no
longer use) is a horizontal dipole in the canard.)
Thanks and 73,
Joe, K7JD
Long-EZ 821RP
Clarkston, WA
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: HF and trailing wire antennas |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Oct 29, 2004, at 3:00 PM, George Neal E Capt AU/PC wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC
> <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
>
>
> Brian -
> I haven't seen you in my shop, but now I know who's been reading my
> notes
> and leaving cookie crumbs on the bench.
Oreos, right?
> N8ZG's panel *will* contain a 706.
> 73... neal
Good idea. I recommend the SGC-231 tuner. It works well with the
'706, has very wide coverage and matching range, and is light and
compact.
73 de Brian, WB6RQN
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: amateur air mobile |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Oct 29, 2004, at 3:34 PM, Joe Dubner wrote:
> What did he use for an antenna? I've had an Icom IC-706 in my Long-EZ
> for the past year for 2m FM and entertainment but haven't solved the HF
> antenna dilemma yet.
You need some sort of counterpoise to make it work. A piece of wire
the same length as the radiator should work reasonably well. If you
can run one down one wing and one down the other it may work. In a
conventional planform you can run from the VS out to each wingtip.
> How does he deal with the EMI situation running 100W? My meager 10W of
> RF on 146 MHz does a number on the engine gauges, particularly those
> that run unshielded wire to their senders. Key the mic and pick up 500
> RPM -- best thing since nitrous oxide :-)
This is more frequency dependent than power dependent. Differing
frequencies will produce differing results but all unshielded and
unbypassed wiring will pick up some RF. Put some ferrite beads on the
wiring and add small bypass caps to ground at the instrument.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight has $20 Battery Maintainer 0.00 |
FORGED_...
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 10/29/04 2:06:57 PM Central Daylight Time,
brianl@lloyd.com writes:
> A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
> butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
> accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
> give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
> problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
> efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
>>>>>>>>>
...or build an airplane! GROK!
Mark
Message 36
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| Subject: | $20 Battery Maintainer |
0.01 SUBJ_DOLLARS Subject starts with dollar amount
0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO
1.40 DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX Date: is 96 hours or more after Received: date
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:47 PM 10/29/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>
>In a message dated 10/29/2004 12:43:56 PM Central Standard Time,
>WRBYARS@aol.com writes:
>
>I heard about "battery desulfators" a couple of years ago so did some
>research on them and found that they had positive benefits.
>I bought one for under $75 bucks and started testing it on all the old
>"dead" batteries that I could find, low and behold, it worked.
>I've been using it on all our cars, trucks, motorcycles and airplane and
>after "rejuvenating " the battery we would use the automatic trickle charge
>function to maintain the charge. I'm very impressed with this little unit
>and
>recommend it to anyone that wants to save their batteries from dying
>prematurely.
>
>Bill
>
>
>Good Morning Bill,
>
>Could you supply a manufacturer, model and source?
During my RAC sponsored battery study earlier this year
I asked about this technology at both Hawker and Concord.
The Hawker guy (marketing type) didn't have an opinion
and was not familiar with them. Concord guy (vp of marketing
but technically very savy guy) said they tried on an old
battery that they ran through a couple of discharge-recharge
cycles and recovered a lot of the battery's capacity . . .
but repeated the experiment on a similar battery with similar
results but without the "de-sulfator" . . . I have one that
I purchased and used it on a barely functional battery pulled
from my father-in-law's car. After a week .1C charge/ 1C discharge
cycles, I measured an increase in capacity from about 10 a.h.
(barely started the car) to about 16 a.h. Cranking current test
values rose moderately from about 150A to 220A.
I wouldn't say these critters will RECOVER a battery. I just
haven't had time to set up the experiment to compare the life
of two new batteries run on the same cycles but with de-sulfator
installed on one battery. It's on the list of things to do.
In the mean time, every battery manufacturer I talked to was
unanimous in their endorsement of battery maintainers . . .
ESPECIALLLY for flooded batteries. I use the Battery Minders
here in the shop. I picked up the Harbor Freight product to
check it out. I'm running a battery down now and will put a
data acquisition system on it to see how it compares with
the Battery Minder.
Anyone wanting to diddle with the desulfators can do a
Google search and get a TON of data on products to purchase
and projects to build.
Bob . . .
---
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | line of sight communication |
0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO
1.40 DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX Date: is 96 hours or more after Received: date
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:22 PM 10/29/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill
><deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> > It wasn't uncommon to have a conversation with someone over
> > 100 miles away.
>
> That's awesome... :-)
If you do the path-loss calculation for VHF comm frequencies
you'll find that 1 watt of transmitter is good for about 1200
miles to a run-of-the-mill receiver and dipole antennas. If you
can see 'em you can talk to them.
I recall an experiment many moons ago (about 1970 I think)
where a couple of guys hauled a repeater up in a 172 to 12,000
feet or so. For duration of fuel aboard, the distances over which
folks communicated with each other were pretty spectacular.
Bob . . .
---
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | line of sight communication 0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO |
Received: contains a forged HELO 1.40 DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX
Date: is 96 hours or more after Received: date
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Craze" <garycraze@hotmail.com>
Our Ham club has both a 2M and 70cm voice repeater tied into a telephone
autopatch. With my 2M handheld and a spare comm antenna in our old
Archer, I use to be able to hit the repeater and make a good quality
phone call from 75-80 miles away. Useful when coming home from a cross
country and calling the wife.
-Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: line of sight communication 0.00
FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO 1.40
DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX Date: is 96 hours or more after Received: date
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
--> <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:22 PM 10/29/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill
><deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> > It wasn't uncommon to have a conversation with someone over
> > 100 miles away.
>
> That's awesome... :-)
If you do the path-loss calculation for VHF comm frequencies
you'll find that 1 watt of transmitter is good for about 1200
miles to a run-of-the-mill receiver and dipole antennas. If you
can see 'em you can talk to them.
I recall an experiment many moons ago (about 1970 I think)
where a couple of guys hauled a repeater up in a 172 to 12,000
feet or so. For duration of fuel aboard, the distances over which
folks communicated with each other were pretty spectacular.
Bob . . .
---
==
==
==
==
Message 39
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| Subject: | line of sight communication 0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO |
Received: contains a forged HELO 1.40 DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX
Date: is 96 hours or more after Received: date
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
In 1960 I was flying L-19s in the Army and our UHF transmitters had 1/8th of
a watt output! No problem over amazingly long distances...
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: line of sight communication 0.00
FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO 1.40 DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:22 PM 10/29/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill
><deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> > It wasn't uncommon to have a conversation with someone over
> > 100 miles away.
>
> That's awesome... :-)
If you do the path-loss calculation for VHF comm frequencies
you'll find that 1 watt of transmitter is good for about 1200
miles to a run-of-the-mill receiver and dipole antennas. If you
can see 'em you can talk to them.
I recall an experiment many moons ago (about 1970 I think)
where a couple of guys hauled a repeater up in a 172 to 12,000
feet or so. For duration of fuel aboard, the distances over which
folks communicated with each other were pretty spectacular.
Bob . . .
---
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: $20 Battery Maintainer 0.01 SUBJ_DOLLARS |
Subject starts with dollar amount 0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains
a forged HELO 1.40 DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX Date: is 96 hours or more after
Received: date
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: dsvs@comcast.net
Bob,
The BatteryMinder adds claim the unit does desulfation. Is this a different process
than the desulfators you are refering to? Does your BatteryMinder have
a button that says desulfation? Thanks. Don
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
>
> At 01:47 PM 10/29/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
> >
> >
> >In a message dated 10/29/2004 12:43:56 PM Central Standard Time,
> >WRBYARS@aol.com writes:
> >
> >I heard about "battery desulfators" a couple of years ago so did some
> >research on them and found that they had positive benefits.
> >I bought one for under $75 bucks and started testing it on all the old
> >"dead" batteries that I could find, low and behold, it worked.
> >I've been using it on all our cars, trucks, motorcycles and airplane and
> >after "rejuvenating " the battery we would use the automatic trickle charge
> >function to maintain the charge. I'm very impressed with this little unit
> >and
> >recommend it to anyone that wants to save their batteries from dying
> >prematurely.
> >
> >Bill
> >
> >
> >Good Morning Bill,
> >
> >Could you supply a manufacturer, model and source?
>
>
> During my RAC sponsored battery study earlier this year
> I asked about this technology at both Hawker and Concord.
> The Hawker guy (marketing type) didn't have an opinion
> and was not familiar with them. Concord guy (vp of marketing
> but technically very savy guy) said they tried on an old
> battery that they ran through a couple of discharge-recharge
> cycles and recovered a lot of the battery's capacity . . .
> but repeated the experiment on a similar battery with similar
> results but without the "de-sulfator" . . . I have one that
> I purchased and used it on a barely functional battery pulled
> from my father-in-law's car. After a week .1C charge/ 1C discharge
> cycles, I measured an increase in capacity from about 10 a.h.
> (barely started the car) to about 16 a.h. Cranking current test
> values rose moderately from about 150A to 220A.
>
> I wouldn't say these critters will RECOVER a battery. I just
> haven't had time to set up the experiment to compare the life
> of two new batteries run on the same cycles but with de-sulfator
> installed on one battery. It's on the list of things to do.
>
> In the mean time, every battery manufacturer I talked to was
> unanimous in their endorsement of battery maintainers . . .
> ESPECIALLLY for flooded batteries. I use the Battery Minders
> here in the shop. I picked up the Harbor Freight product to
> check it out. I'm running a battery down now and will put a
> data acquisition system on it to see how it compares with
> the Battery Minder.
>
> Anyone wanting to diddle with the desulfators can do a
> Google search and get a TON of data on products to purchase
> and projects to build.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
>
>
>
Bob,
The BatteryMinder adds claimthe unit does desulfation. Is this a different process
than the desulfators you are refering to? Does your BatteryMinder have a button
that says desulfation? Thanks. Don
-------------- Original message --------------
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<B.NUCKOLLS@COX.NET>
At 01:47 PM 10/29/2004 -0400, you wrote:
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 10/29/2004 12:43:56 PM Central Standard Time,
WRBYARS@aol.com writes:
I heard about "battery desulfators" a couple of years ago so did some
research on them and found that they had positive benefits.
I bought one for under $75 bucks and started testing it on all the old
"dead" batteries that I could find, low and behold, it worked.
I've been using it on all our cars, trucks, motorcycles and airplane and
after "rejuvenating " the bat
tery we would use the automatic trickle charge
function to maintain the charge. I'm very impressed with this little unit
and
recommend it to anyone that wants to save their batteries from dying
prematurely.
Bill
Good Morning Bill,
Could you supply a manufacturer, model and source?
During my RAC sponsored battery study earlier this year
I asked about this technology at both Hawker and Concord.
The Hawker guy (marketing type) didn't have an opinion
and was not familiar with them. Concord guy (vp of marketing
but technically very savy guy) said they tried on an old
battery that they ran through a couple of discharge-recharge
cycles and recovered a lot of the battery's capacity . . .
but repeated the experiment on a similar battery with similar <
BR> results but without the "de-sulfator" . . . I have one that
I purchased and used it on a barely functional battery pulled
from my father-in-law's car. After a week .1C charge/ 1C discharge
cycles, I measured an increase in capacity from about 10 a.h.
(barely started the car) to about 16 a.h. Cranking current test
values rose moderately from about 150A to 220A.
I wouldn't say these critters will RECOVER a battery. I just
haven't had time to set up the experiment to compare the life
of two new batteries run on the same cycles but with de-sulfator
installed on one battery. It's on the list of things to do.
In the mean time, every battery manufacturer I talked to was
unanimous in their endorsement of battery maintainers . . .
ESPECIALLLY for flooded batteries. I use the Battery Minders
here in the shop. I picked up the Harbor Freight prod
uct to
check it out. I'm running a battery down now and will put a
data acquisition system on it to see how it compares with
the Battery Minder.
Anyone wanting to diddle with the desulfators can do a
Google search and get a TON of data on products to purchase
and projects to build.
Bob . . .
---
==============================
======================
Message 41
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Received": contains.a.forged.HELO.1.40.DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX.Date:is.96.hours.or.more.after.Received:date@matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: line of sight communication 0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO |
Received: contains a forged HELO 1.40 DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX
Date: is 96 hours or more after Received: date
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> If you do the path-loss calculation for VHF comm frequencies
> you'll find that 1 watt of transmitter is good for about 1200
> miles to a run-of-the-mill receiver and dipole antennas. If you
> can see 'em you can talk to them.
>
>
>
>
Different frequencies, but have you ever tried moon bounce?
-Dj
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: line of sight communication |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Oct 29, 2008, at 6:16 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>> It wasn't uncommon to have a conversation with someone over
>>> 100 miles away.
>>
>> That's awesome... :-)
>
>
> If you do the path-loss calculation for VHF comm frequencies
> you'll find that 1 watt of transmitter is good for about 1200
> miles to a run-of-the-mill receiver and dipole antennas. If you
> can see 'em you can talk to them.
>
> I recall an experiment many moons ago (about 1970 I think)
> where a couple of guys hauled a repeater up in a 172 to 12,000
> feet or so. For duration of fuel aboard, the distances over which
> folks communicated with each other were pretty spectacular.
The distance to the horizon is given by the following formula:
D = 1.17 * sqrt( He )
D = distant to the horizon in nm
He = height of eye in feet.
So, for an aircraft at 12,000' AGL the distance to the horizon is 128
nm. For two aircraft at 12000' AGL they will have LoS to 256 mi. And
I know that there is going to be a problem with the Fresnel zone
somewhere in there but this is good enough for a start.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
Message 43
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| Subject: | Early Aviation Radios |
0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO
1.40 DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX Date: is 96 hours or more after Received: date
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:00 PM 10/29/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: echristley@nc.rr.com
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Did you know that electrical systems were being
> > placed on airplanes
> >> as early as 1915? Less than 10 years after the
> > Brothers sold the
> >> Army its first airplane, they were running radio
> > transmitters into
> >> trailing wire antennas powered by wind driven
> > generators?
> >>
> >> Bob . . .
> >>
> >
> > Say, WHAT?!
> >
> > Was it actual voice systems or morse code?
>
>Code. They were spark transmitters but I believe they used
>vacuum-tube-based receivers. Tube-based CW transmitters didn't show up
>really until the end of WW-I. Voice transmission started a few years
>later.
The 1919 airborne radios were indeed CW transmitters only. The
reference I found talked about a 25 mile range. I'm pretty
sure these would have been vacuum tube. Although the DH5
was a honk'n big airplane for the time, a wind driven generator
big enough to spin up a spark rig would have really draggy
and the equipment would have been REALLY heavy.
This article:
http://earlyradiohistory.us/sec011.htm
speaks to vacuum tube transmitters as laboratory curiosities
as early as 1914. Marconi demonstrated voice transmissions
with vacuum tubes in 1915
http://earlyradiohistory.us/1915mwt.htm
and this music transmission in 1916
http://earlyradiohistory.us/1916powr.htm
Here's a really cool collection of articles
http://earlyradiohistory.us/
I'm still looking for how they developed high voltage
for the tubes . . . Some ol' gray beards at RAC
suggested dual commutator generators. Armatures
like the old dynamotors have two windings. A low
voltage winding that was regulated for filaments,
and a second winding with commutator on other end
of stack for high voltage.
Bob . . .
---
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: amateur air mobile |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:34 PM 10/29/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joe Dubner <jdubner@yahoo.com>
>
>On 29-Oct-04 09:07 Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> > I helped a Long-Ez owner in Brazil install an HF transceiver
> > for over the ocean hops . . . his back seat was an aux fuel
> > tank. He used it for both aviation contact and entertainment
> > on the ham bands.
>
>Bob,
>
>Two questions, please . . .
>
>What did he use for an antenna? I've had an Icom IC-706 in my Long-EZ
>for the past year for 2m FM and entertainment but haven't solved the HF
>antenna dilemma yet.
He ran a wire from canard center out to tip and then back to the
vertical fin tip on one wing and then back to fuselage just behind
canopy. This was fabricated from copperweld and VERY stout mounting
hardware . . . he was really nervous about some part of it getting
loose and tangled in prop.
>How does he deal with the EMI situation running 100W? My meager 10W of
>RF on 146 MHz does a number on the engine gauges, particularly those
>that run unshielded wire to their senders. Key the mic and pick up 500
>RPM -- best thing since nitrous oxide :-)
He knew it was happening and simply avoided reading any
instruments while talking.
>(For those not familiar with the Long-EZ, it uses composite construction
>with a rear-mounted engine that requires 10 - 12 feet of connecting wire
>to reach the instrument panel. On my airplane the 2m antenna is a
>vertical dipole in one winglet, the aircraft comm antenna is another
>vertical dipole in the other winglet, and the VOR antenna (which I no
>longer use) is a horizontal dipole in the canard.)
The ship's ground system was used as the 'counterpoise" for
the HF antenna system. Automatic antenna tuner was tucked away
in front of ship's battery in nose. Radio was the a little Icom,
I don't recall the model number now. It was the first of the
cigar-box sized hf transceivers available about 10 years ago.
Bob . . .
---
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Line of sight communication |
0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO
1.40 DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX Date: is 96 hours or more after Received: date
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:28 PM 10/29/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill
><deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> >
> > If you do the path-loss calculation for VHF comm frequencies
> > you'll find that 1 watt of transmitter is good for about 1200
> > miles to a run-of-the-mill receiver and dipole antennas. If you
> > can see 'em you can talk to them.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Different frequencies, but have you ever tried moon bounce?
A friend of mind was into that about 1975. Had a big dish
in the back yard. Interesting stuff but beyond my budget at
the time.
Bob . . .
---
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: $20 Battery Maintainer |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:47 PM 10/29/2004 +0000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: dsvs@comcast.net
>
>Bob,
>The BatteryMinder adds claim the unit does desulfation. Is this a
>different process than the desulfators you are refering to? Does your
>BatteryMinder have a button that says desulfation? Thanks. Don
No, the ones I buy are straight programmed power supplies for charging.
They have some more recent additions that include the pulse generator
for desulfation and they're about $30 more expensive.
Bob . . .
---
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