Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:28 AM - Re: New Magazine (Mickey Coggins)
2. 01:02 AM - Correction to address for new magazine (Larry & Gerry)
3. 03:06 AM - Re: New Magazine (cgalley)
4. 05:27 AM - Re: New Magazine? (Ozarkseller2@aol.com)
5. 05:45 AM - Re: Re: amateur air mobile (Joe Dubner)
6. 06:44 AM - Re: Re: amateur air mobile (Brian Lloyd)
7. 08:37 AM - Multimeter needs? (Dr. Andrew Elliott)
8. 09:09 AM - Re: Multimeter needs? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 09:23 AM - What's this 3-diode contactor wiring stuff about? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 10:37 AM - Re: Multimeter needs? (Mickey Coggins)
11. 10:47 AM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 02:26 PM - Re: Multimeter needs? (cgalley)
13. 03:09 PM - Re: Multimeter needs? (David Burton)
14. 04:04 PM - Re: Multimeter needs? (Trampas)
15. 04:17 PM - SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - BREAKERS & SWITCH QUESTIONS (Francis, David CMDR)
16. 05:32 PM - Re: Multimeter needs? (Larry Bowen)
17. 06:46 PM - Re: Multimeter needs? (Robert McCallum)
18. 07:59 PM - Re: Dynon update (Jim Stone)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: New Magazine |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi,
The link http://www.extechmag.com/ worked better for me. Thanks
for the pointer - it looks promising.
Mickey
At 07:39 31-10-04, Larry & Gerry wrote:
-----Start of Original Message-----
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry & Gerry" <psychden@sonic.net>
>
>If you have been thirsting for the content of Sport Aviation ala previous editor Jack Cox and found the recent efforts wanting, check out www.extech.com. I just saw the first issue and it's promising to fill a big gap in what builders are interested in to improve the OBAM community. Larry Ford, VP CAFE Foundation, Glasair I RG N149LF 250 hrs Do not archive
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 2
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| Subject: | Correction to address for new magazine |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry & Gerry" <psychden@sonic.net>
The more accurate site for the magazine is http:/www.extechmag.com/ Thanks Mickey!
Larry Ford Do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: New Magazine |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
All I got was a web page selling instruments.
Content has always been what the EAA member-writer produces. If you want a
different content, then write it. I know! I write for EAA magazines.
Cy Galley
EAA Safety Programs Editor
Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry & Gerry" <psychden@sonic.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: New Magazine
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry & Gerry"
<psychden@sonic.net>
>
> If you have been thirsting for the content of Sport Aviation ala previous
editor Jack Cox and found the recent efforts wanting, check out
www.extech.com. I just saw the first issue and it's promising to fill a big
gap in what builders are interested in to improve the OBAM community. Larry
Ford, VP CAFE Foundation, Glasair I RG N149LF 250 hrs Do not archive
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: New Magazine? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ozarkseller2@aol.com
In a message dated 10/31/2004 12:29:04 AM Central Standard Time,
psychden@sonic.net writes:
> If you have been thirsting for the content of Sport Aviation ala previous
> editor Jack Cox and found the recent efforts wanting, check out
> www.extech.com. I just saw the first issue and it's promising to fill a big gap in what
> builders are interested in to improve the OBAM community. Larry Ford, VP CAFE
> Foundation, Glasair I RG N149LF 250 hrs Do not archive
That's the site for Extech Instruments Corp. You must have plugged in the
wrong URL. What's the magazine name?
cc: psychden@sonic.net
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: amateur air mobile |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joe Dubner <jdubner@yahoo.com>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
> He ran a wire from canard center out to tip and then back to the
> vertical fin tip on one wing and then back to fuselage just behind
> canopy. This was fabricated from copperweld and VERY stout mounting
> hardware . . . he was really nervous about some part of it getting
> loose and tangled in prop.
Thank you, Bob (and Lloyd too).
It sounds like a real P.I.T.A., just as I feared. With the pusher prop
and composite body, this is a tough nut to crack, especially if one
isn't willing to go external with the antenna (I'm not). Maybe I'll try
a loaded dipole in the canard someday.
--
Joe
Long-EZ 821RP
Clarkston, WA
On 29-Oct-08 20:03 Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 12:34 PM 10/29/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joe Dubner <jdubner@yahoo.com>
>>
>>On 29-Oct-04 09:07 Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>
>> > I helped a Long-Ez owner in Brazil install an HF transceiver
>> > for over the ocean hops . . . his back seat was an aux fuel
>> > tank. He used it for both aviation contact and entertainment
>> > on the ham bands.
>>
>>Bob,
>>
>>Two questions, please . . .
>>
>>What did he use for an antenna? I've had an Icom IC-706 in my Long-EZ
>>for the past year for 2m FM and entertainment but haven't solved the HF
>>antenna dilemma yet.
>
> He ran a wire from canard center out to tip and then back to the
> vertical fin tip on one wing and then back to fuselage just behind
> canopy. This was fabricated from copperweld and VERY stout mounting
> hardware . . . he was really nervous about some part of it getting
> loose and tangled in prop.
>
>>How does he deal with the EMI situation running 100W? My meager 10W of
>>RF on 146 MHz does a number on the engine gauges, particularly those
>>that run unshielded wire to their senders. Key the mic and pick up 500
>>RPM -- best thing since nitrous oxide :-)
>
> He knew it was happening and simply avoided reading any
> instruments while talking.
>
>>(For those not familiar with the Long-EZ, it uses composite construction
>>with a rear-mounted engine that requires 10 - 12 feet of connecting wire
>>to reach the instrument panel. On my airplane the 2m antenna is a
>>vertical dipole in one winglet, the aircraft comm antenna is another
>>vertical dipole in the other winglet, and the VOR antenna (which I no
>>longer use) is a horizontal dipole in the canard.)
>
> The ship's ground system was used as the 'counterpoise" for
> the HF antenna system. Automatic antenna tuner was tucked away
> in front of ship's battery in nose. Radio was the a little Icom,
> I don't recall the model number now. It was the first of the
> cigar-box sized hf transceivers available about 10 years ago.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: amateur air mobile |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Oct 31, 2004, at 9:45 AM, Joe Dubner wrote:
>> He ran a wire from canard center out to tip and then back to the
>> vertical fin tip on one wing and then back to fuselage just behind
>> canopy. This was fabricated from copperweld and VERY stout mounting
>> hardware . . . he was really nervous about some part of it getting
>> loose and tangled in prop.
>
> Thank you, Bob (and Lloyd too).
>
> It sounds like a real P.I.T.A., just as I feared.
It is one of those problems that is much more easily accommodated
during the construction phase rather than after the fact.
> With the pusher prop
> and composite body, this is a tough nut to crack, especially if one
> isn't willing to go external with the antenna (I'm not). Maybe I'll
> try
> a loaded dipole in the canard someday.
There isn't a lot of real estate in that canard for metal. More metal
is always better in an antenna. Look for some way to run your antenna
and counterpoise in the main wing.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Multimeter needs? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott@cox.net>
I a going to buy a new multimeter to support my rewiring efforts, and I
was wondering if there is any need to get an RMS-capable meter. With
similar capabilities otherwise, the 4000-count RMS meter is about $40
more than the non-RMS version. Comments?
Andy Elliott
N481HY/AA-1(TD,160)/KFFZ
That's "One Hot Yankee"
http://members.cox.net/n481hy/
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Multimeter needs? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:36 AM 10/31/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dr. Andrew Elliott"
><a.s.elliott@cox.net>
>
>I a going to buy a new multimeter to support my rewiring efforts, and I
>was wondering if there is any need to get an RMS-capable meter. With
>similar capabilities otherwise, the 4000-count RMS meter is about $40
>more than the non-RMS version. Comments?
>
>Andy Elliott
>N481HY/AA-1(TD,160)/KFFZ
>That's "One Hot Yankee"
>http://members.cox.net/n481hy/
I own about a half dozen multi-meters in various places around
the upstairs shop, downstairs shop, toolbox at work. I have access
to dozens more at various places around Raytheon Aircraft. When
it comes time to poke and prod in search of data, its a very rare
instance that I find the handiest meter lacking in features suited
to the task. The short answer is that $20 multimeter from Sears
like that featured in Figure 6 of
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/LowOhmsAdapter_3.pdf )
is going to do what you need to do 99.9% of the time. The
instruments I own with higher accuracy, counters, RMS, capacity
measurements, etc are very seldom called upon to exercise those
features. If this is your first instrument, make it a cheapie
that you don't need to worry about dropping a wrench through the
face. Of all the instruments I own, only one (the Fluke) cost
me more than $75 and most were under $40.
Bob . . .
---
Message 9
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| Subject: | What's this 3-diode contactor wiring stuff about? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>Bob, I get the Volt Spike catching Diode set up on the relays, But...
>on the B&C web site they BAT relat they sell has 3 Diodes!?
>
>http://www.bandc.biz/S701-2.htm
>
>1) Across relay coil NEG coil (switch side) to POS coil terminal (expect that)
>
>2) Positive "jumper" from the +BAT terminal to POS coil terminal (Expected
>but is a diode required?),
>
>3)POS coil terminal to the Switched side Terminal (starter/bus side). What
>is that for?
>
>I tought ONE diode per relay is required. Is this over kill?
Check out the cross-feed contactor in Figure Z-14 of the AeroElectric
Connection. You can get a copy of the Z-figures at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev10/z10.pdf
The S701-2 is set up for that application such that it can close using
power from
EITHER the main bus OR the auxiliary bus. Some folks use the -2
configuration
for battery contactors when there are two batteries installed and
possibility
that one of them suffers complete discharge and needs support from the
ship's system using bus-power as opposed to battery-power to close
the contactor.
For most cases, the -1 contactor suffices particularly if you have
ground power jack wired to the battery such that a dead battery
can be externally recharged.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Multimeter needs? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
I've been meaning to ask you this question, Bob, and this
thread reminded me. I bought a cheapie that has the
ability to measure current. This seems pretty cool, and
seems to work ok. I am curious - does your experience with
this feature tell you that this is an accurate way to measure
current?
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both |
magnetos
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
magnetos
At 12:56 AM 10/31/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski
><krasinski@provalue.net>
>
>Bob,
>I use electronic rpm meter for the engine, and the problem is how to
>trigger the meter in order to have indications of rpm while switching
>from one magneto to the other.
>
>The simplest, but a crude way would be to add a switch selecting the
>magneto providing the signal to rpm meter.
>
>A diode from the P wire to the meter input (for each of the magnetos)
>would do the same automatically. But here comes a question - what is the
>peak voltage on the P wire during operation of the magneto? Also, that
>might be not the safest way, with blown diodes funny things might happen.
>
>A resistor from each P wire to the meter input (for each of the
>magnetos) would form a voltage divider by a factor of 2 in case when
>one P wire is grounded. The resistor must be not too small in order not
>to damp the coil of the magneto. Do you know what would be the lower
>limit of the resistance that can be safely connected to the P wire
>without significant reduction of the spark energy? I guess this
>approach would be safer than with the diodes.
I'd use resistors but only read one mag at a time and use the
resistors to prevent fault on tachometer wiring from taking
a magneto down.
>I wonder if you have a recommended diagram for driving an electronic rpm
>meter from both magnetos?
Sure. See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Mags_with_Electronic_Tach.pdf
Bob . . .
---
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Multimeter needs? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Root Mean Squared - Might be useful with alternating current but what value
for DC? Tell me, Please!
Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Multimeter needs?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 09:36 AM 10/31/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dr. Andrew Elliott"
> ><a.s.elliott@cox.net>
> >
> >I a going to buy a new multimeter to support my rewiring efforts, and I
> >was wondering if there is any need to get an RMS-capable meter. With
> >similar capabilities otherwise, the 4000-count RMS meter is about $40
> >more than the non-RMS version. Comments?
> >
> >Andy Elliott
> >N481HY/AA-1(TD,160)/KFFZ
> >That's "One Hot Yankee"
> >http://members.cox.net/n481hy/
>
> I own about a half dozen multi-meters in various places around
> the upstairs shop, downstairs shop, toolbox at work. I have access
> to dozens more at various places around Raytheon Aircraft. When
> it comes time to poke and prod in search of data, its a very rare
> instance that I find the handiest meter lacking in features suited
> to the task. The short answer is that $20 multimeter from Sears
> like that featured in Figure 6 of
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/LowOhmsAdapter_3.pdf )
>
> is going to do what you need to do 99.9% of the time. The
> instruments I own with higher accuracy, counters, RMS, capacity
> measurements, etc are very seldom called upon to exercise those
> features. If this is your first instrument, make it a cheapie
> that you don't need to worry about dropping a wrench through the
> face. Of all the instruments I own, only one (the Fluke) cost
> me more than $75 and most were under $40.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ---
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Multimeter needs? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
> Root Mean Squared - Might be useful with alternating current but what
value
> for DC? Tell me, Please!
>
> Cy Galley - Chair,
Exactly.
I think a simple volt ohm meter is all you need. I have one that has a
rubber protector around the outside of the case which protects it from
impact and also protects the plane from dents when you drop the meter.
Mine has a built in light for the display which I use a lot.
I find myself switching back and forth between dc volts and ohms a lot.
Since these two functions are opposed to each other on my least favorite
meter I spend a lot of time fooling with the meter trying to change the
setting. I would suggest trying to find a meter that has these adjacent to
each other. I had an old meter with push buttons to change functions. It
was great to use but was really a bench model.
One thing that I dislike about another meter I use is that you have to
select the range you want to test in. My favorite meter auto-ranges. The
meter is never off-scale, you just select the function you want (DC etc.)
and the meter displays the result to the highest accuracy it can.
Good luck!
Message 14
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| Subject: | Multimeter needs? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
With semiconductors the way they are today most the meter capabilities are
all on a silicon chip, in fact digikey sells the chips.
I have a $350 Fluke multimeter I would not trade for the world, I have had
it for over 10 years! The Fluke has a couple of features cheap multimeters
don't like how quick it updates the LCD, Auto Ranging, etc. However every
time there is a sell for $5 multimeters at Harbor Freight I pick up a
couple. I place one or two in each car I own and when someone asks me to fix
something I show them how to fix it and then give them the multimeter. These
multimeters work great and are very accurate, again the electronics are
cheap. The only draw backs are, LCD update rate and auto ranging, but again
for anything on cars or planes it is not that critical.
Regards,
Trampas Stern
www.sterntech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
Burton
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Multimeter needs?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
> Root Mean Squared - Might be useful with alternating current but what
value
> for DC? Tell me, Please!
>
> Cy Galley - Chair,
Exactly.
I think a simple volt ohm meter is all you need. I have one that has a
rubber protector around the outside of the case which protects it from
impact and also protects the plane from dents when you drop the meter.
Mine has a built in light for the display which I use a lot.
I find myself switching back and forth between dc volts and ohms a lot.
Since these two functions are opposed to each other on my least favorite
meter I spend a lot of time fooling with the meter trying to change the
setting. I would suggest trying to find a meter that has these adjacent to
each other. I had an old meter with push buttons to change functions. It
was great to use but was really a bench model.
One thing that I dislike about another meter I use is that you have to
select the range you want to test in. My favorite meter auto-ranges. The
meter is never off-scale, you just select the function you want (DC etc.)
and the meter displays the result to the highest accuracy it can.
Good luck!
Message 15
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| Subject: | SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - BREAKERS & SWITCH QUESTIONS |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
Bob,
Two questions, wiring is Z-14:
a. I have just 2 breakers, 2 x 5 amp for my two voltage regulators. In a
past post you said:
If you use breakers, go with the screws. You need to connect all the
breakers together with a common bus bar which will screw directly
onto the breaker terminals. One of the goals for using fuse blocks is to
reduce the system parts count. If you use fast-on breakers, then
the parts reduction gained with fast-ons at the breakers is lost
when you have to fabricate a bus bar, support it, insulate it
and install a jumper wire from the bus to the breaker with
more screws and two terminals, only one of which is a fast-on.
Really messy.
Bob . . .
I plan the breakers to he either side of the two low volts warning lights,
how do I terminate wires to the screw terminals, and
b. I have the (2-10 equivalent)Carling miniature toggle switches with LEDs
in the bat handles. They are rated at 3 amp at 28VDC, presumably around 5
amps at 12VDC. My landing lights are 55 watts each = 4.5 amps, but are
resistive loads. Can I wire direct or should I go via a relay for each lamp?
Switch derating factors in AC43.13 suggest relays?
Regards, David Francis, Canberra, Australia.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Multimeter needs? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I don't know what RMS is. My $30 Craftsman multimeter met all my needs
while building the plane. Except when I fried it trying to use it to time
my mags (hey, in theory that should have worked!). I replaced it with one
from Radio Shack, but I don't like it nearly as much as the Sears.
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 16.2 hrs.
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dr. Andrew Elliott [mailto:a.s.elliott@cox.net]
> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 11:36 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Multimeter needs?
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dr. Andrew Elliott"
> --> <a.s.elliott@cox.net>
>
> I a going to buy a new multimeter to support my rewiring
> efforts, and I was wondering if there is any need to get an
> RMS-capable meter. With similar capabilities otherwise, the
> 4000-count RMS meter is about $40 more than the non-RMS
> version. Comments?
>
> Andy Elliott
> N481HY/AA-1(TD,160)/KFFZ
> That's "One Hot Yankee"
> http://members.cox.net/n481hy/
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Multimeter needs? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
Larry;
RMS refers to Root Mean Square, and is the value, when referring to
alternating current, which most closely represents the direct current
equivalent. With reference to the normal 115 volt AC electricity
available in the wall plugs of your house, 115 is the RMS value
representing the effective voltage available. The peak voltage is
actually 1.414 X 115 = 163 volts for a 60 cycle sine wave which is what
most of North America uses. You can treat the RMS 115 volt value as
though it were a DC value when applying Ohm's law for a resistive load
for example. When it comes to DC voltages and currents found in
aeroplanes RMS is not applicable, it is an alternating current term.
Bob McC
Larry Bowen wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
>I don't know what RMS is. My $30 Craftsman multimeter met all my needs
>while building the plane.
>
Message 18
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" <jsto1@tampabay.rr.com>
FYI, PCFlight Systems Ocala FL has a 10.5" display with integrated EFIS
and Engine monitor. It also supports 4, 6, and 8 cyl configurations. I
have one in my Jabiru J450.
See: http://www.pcflightsystems.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lucky
aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dynon update
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