Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:44 AM - Matronics 2004 Email List Fund Raiser [PLEASE READ] (Matt Dralle)
2. 05:07 AM - Re: Multimeter needs? (Brian Lloyd)
3. 05:12 AM - Re: Multimeter needs? (Brian Lloyd)
4. 06:10 AM - Re: Multimeter needs? (Charlie Kuss)
5. 06:15 AM - Re: Multimeter needs? (Larry Bowen)
6. 06:17 AM - Re: Multimeter needs? (cgalley)
7. 06:47 AM - Re: Multimeter needs? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 06:55 AM - speaking of measurements (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 06:56 AM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos (Jerzy Krasinski)
10. 07:14 AM - Re: Multimeter needs? (Brian Lloyd)
11. 07:19 AM - Re: Multimeter needs? (Brian Lloyd)
12. 07:26 AM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both (Larry Landucci)
13. 07:27 AM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos (Jerzy Krasinski)
14. 07:36 AM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos (Jerzy Krasinski)
15. 07:36 AM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 07:38 AM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos (Pat Hatch)
17. 09:01 AM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both (Charlie Kuss)
18. 12:08 PM - Xponder Ant ground plane size question. (Jim Stone)
19. 12:13 PM - Re: Xponder Ant ground plane size question. (Ralph E. Capen)
20. 01:19 PM - Re: Wiring ARC IN-514R (Jim Stone)
21. 01:55 PM - Re: Xponder Ant ground plane size question. (James Redmon)
22. 02:26 PM - Re: Xponder Ant ground plane size question. (George Neal E Capt AU/PC)
23. 03:14 PM - Re: Xponder Ant ground plane size question. (John Schroeder)
24. 06:54 PM - Multimeter needs? ()
25. 07:19 PM - Re: Xponder Ant ground plane size question. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
26. 07:23 PM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
27. 07:40 PM - Re: Base Station Antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
28. 08:44 PM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
29. 08:47 PM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
30. 08:48 PM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
31. 09:33 PM - Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - BREAKERS & SWITCH (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
32. 10:06 PM - BOB, somethings wrong with the clock (B Tomm)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Matronics 2004 Email List Fund Raiser [PLEASE READ] |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like Fund Raiser to support the continued
operation and upgrade of the Email List servers at Matronics. The Lists
sponsored here are supported solely though the direct contributions of its
members each year during the Fund Raiser. As you have likely noticed,
there is no commercial advertising on any of the Lists or on any of the
List-related web sites such as the List Browser and List Search Engine.
That doesn't mean they're free to operate, however. To run a first class,
high-performance, highly-available service such as the Forums at Matronics,
its take resources. These resources fall into the categories of financial
and personnel. As far as "personnel" is concerned, its a one-man show and
I perform all of the work required to operate and upgrade the Lists without
being directly compensated for my work. But that's a labor of love. The
financial resources required, on the other hand, are covered primarily
though the generous contributions of the List members.
Direct costs include, for example, a commercial-grade T1 line Internet
connection dedicated primarily to serving the Lister Community. This T1
Internet connection provides a high-performance, dedicated connection to
the Archive and Browsing Tools and assures the quickest, most reliable
delivery of List messages. It seems like there's always an upgrade
required and this year I've added an all new online backup system to
automatically backup all of the Lists Archives as well as provide for
complete system disaster recovery. This new system would enable me to
restore the email and/or web server systems to 100% in only a couple of
hours if one of them were to blow up.
The number of messages processed by the Matronics Forums continues to
increase as well. In the last 12 months, there have been over 70,000
unique messages posted across the various lists, amounting to well over 32
MILLION messages that have been redistributed to List members in that same
period! The List web site also sees an equally high level of traffic with
some 148,000 Archive searches performed last year and a staggering 13
million web site hits!
During the month of November, I will be sending out a Fund Raiser reminder
message a couple of times a week and I ask for your patience and
understanding during this time. The Fund Raiser is the sole means of
support for the Lists, and the existence and longevity of the Lists hinges
directly its success.
This year once again, Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore has provided a
number of great incentive gifts during the Fund Raiser. Andy provides
these items to me at a substantial discount and they have proven to be very
popular among the Listers. Thank you Andy for your extraordinary
generosity and support of the Lists again this year! Please visit Andy's
web site, the Builder's Bookstore:
http://www.buildersbooks.com
If you use the Matronics Email Lists and enjoy the quick and easy access to
one of the best resources on the Internet for Homebuilt and General
aviation discussion forums, please make a Contribution today to support the
continued operation. Remember, its *your* Contribution that keeps these
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The Contribution web site is freshly updated with a list of all new
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Contribution web site can be found at:
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Thank you for your support!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Multimeter needs? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Oct 31, 2004, at 6:25 PM, cgalley wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> Root Mean Squared - Might be useful with alternating current but what
> value
> for DC? Tell me, Please!
None, well, very little. If you have ripple on your DC then it might
be of passing interest.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Multimeter needs? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Oct 31, 2004, at 9:31 PM, Larry Bowen wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen"
> <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
> I don't know what RMS is.
Root mean squared. It is the square root of the mean (average) of the
squares of the instantaneous values of the signal. In DC, RMS voltage
equals DC voltage so there is no value to using RMS for DC measurements
unless there is some AC/ripple on the DC. If your AC signal is a pure
sine wave, RMS is a simple conversion from either the average or peak
value. RMS becomes important when dealing with unusual AC waveforms.
The short version is that RMS capability really isn't all that useful
when working with DC electrical systems. It is very interesting when
working with AC power circuits and audio.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Multimeter needs? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Larry,
If you let a impulse coupled mag "snap" while your meter is hooked up, it
will take it (or even a real magneto buzz box) out. Best method is to move
the prop till the mag snaps, then back it up a bit and hook up the meter.
Otherwise, the high voltage generated in the mag's primary coil, will ruin
your meter or buzz box.
Charlie Kuss
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
>I don't know what RMS is. My $30 Craftsman multimeter met all my needs
>while building the plane. Except when I fried it trying to use it to time
>my mags (hey, in theory that should have worked!). I replaced it with one
>from Radio Shack, but I don't like it nearly as much as the Sears.
>
>-
>Larry Bowen, RV-8 16.2 hrs.
>Larry@BowenAero.com
>http://BowenAero.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dr. Andrew Elliott [mailto:a.s.elliott@cox.net]
> > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 11:36 AM
> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Multimeter needs?
> >
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dr. Andrew Elliott"
> > --> <a.s.elliott@cox.net>
> >
> > I a going to buy a new multimeter to support my rewiring
> > efforts, and I was wondering if there is any need to get an
> > RMS-capable meter. With similar capabilities otherwise, the
> > 4000-count RMS meter is about $40 more than the non-RMS
> > version. Comments?
> >
> > Andy Elliott
> > N481HY/AA-1(TD,160)/KFFZ
> > That's "One Hot Yankee"
> > http://members.cox.net/n481hy/
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Multimeter needs? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I figured that is what happened. Is my meter trashed, or is there a way
to fix it?
The subsequent timing with a buzz box and A&P helper went fine, and I'm
pretty sure we let the impulse mag click several times with the box in
place. I assumed it had built in protection against the jolt. No?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Charlie Kuss said:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss
> <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
>
> Larry,
> If you let a impulse coupled mag "snap" while your meter is hooked up,
> it
> will take it (or even a real magneto buzz box) out. Best method is to move
> the prop till the mag snaps, then back it up a bit and hook up the meter.
> Otherwise, the high voltage generated in the mag's primary coil, will ruin
> your meter or buzz box.
> Charlie Kuss
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen"
>> <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>>
>>I don't know what RMS is. My $30 Craftsman multimeter met all my needs
>>while building the plane. Except when I fried it trying to use it to
>> time
>>my mags (hey, in theory that should have worked!). I replaced it with
>> one
>>from Radio Shack, but I don't like it nearly as much as the Sears.
>>
>>-
>>Larry Bowen, RV-8 16.2 hrs.
>>Larry@BowenAero.com
>>http://BowenAero.com
>>
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Dr. Andrew Elliott [mailto:a.s.elliott@cox.net]
>> > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 11:36 AM
>> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Multimeter needs?
>> >
>> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dr. Andrew Elliott"
>> > --> <a.s.elliott@cox.net>
>> >
>> > I a going to buy a new multimeter to support my rewiring
>> > efforts, and I was wondering if there is any need to get an
>> > RMS-capable meter. With similar capabilities otherwise, the
>> > 4000-count RMS meter is about $40 more than the non-RMS
>> > version. Comments?
>> >
>> > Andy Elliott
>> > N481HY/AA-1(TD,160)/KFFZ
>> > That's "One Hot Yankee"
>> > http://members.cox.net/n481hy/
>>
>>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Multimeter needs? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Won't the ripple have to be very large? The absolute value of a ripple
current isn't significant.
A scope would be a
Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brianl@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Multimeter needs?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2004, at 6:25 PM, cgalley wrote:
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> >
> > Root Mean Squared - Might be useful with alternating current but what
> > value
> > for DC? Tell me, Please!
>
> None, well, very little. If you have ripple on your DC then it might
> be of passing interest.
>
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
> +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
>
> There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
> citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Multimeter needs? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:36 PM 10/31/2004 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
><mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>
>I've been meaning to ask you this question, Bob, and this
>thread reminded me. I bought a cheapie that has the
>ability to measure current. This seems pretty cool, and
>seems to work ok. I am curious - does your experience with
>this feature tell you that this is an accurate way to measure
>current?
>
>Thanks,
>Mickey
Don't know what would be any "better". The only down-side
for digital instruments is the ability to sense trends and
dynamic behavior by watching digits. I have a number of analog
instruments I keep around when it becomes necessary to "watch
the bouncing ball" . . . but when it comes to return on
investment for accuracy and capability, the low cost digital
instruments are an amazing value.
Bob . . .
---
Message 8
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| Subject: | speaking of measurements |
0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
Some days ago, someone mentioned an article in the Jan 04
issue of Circuit Cellar on a low range ohmmeter. I had published
an article on such an instrument some time ago.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/LowOhmsAdapter_3.pdf
I ordered a back issue of Circuit Cellar to look over the
article cited. It's a processor based design with a digital
display. The range and accuracy of the device is not markedly
better than the design I proposed but the parts-count, complexity
and time-to-assemble is huge compared to the design I proposed.
My recommendation is that if anyone is interested in adding
low resistance measurement capability to their toolbox, the
techniques described in the article on my website is the
way to go.
I own a killobuck micro-ohmmeter but when I need a first-look
at a circuit from the milli-ohms perspective, my $25 adapter
comes out before I kick the big-dog awake.
Bob . . .
---
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski@provalue.net>
Robert L. Nuckolls, III magnetos wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
magnetos
>
>At 12:56 AM 10/31/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski
>><krasinski@provalue.net>
>>
>>Bob,
>>I use electronic rpm meter for the engine, and the problem is how to
>>trigger the meter in order to have indications of rpm while switching
>>
>>
>>from one magneto to the other.
>
>
>>The simplest, but a crude way would be to add a switch selecting the
>>magneto providing the signal to rpm meter.
>>
>>A diode from the P wire to the meter input (for each of the magnetos)
>>would do the same automatically. But here comes a question - what is the
>>peak voltage on the P wire during operation of the magneto? Also, that
>>might be not the safest way, with blown diodes funny things might happen.
>>
>>A resistor from each P wire to the meter input (for each of the
>>magnetos) would form a voltage divider by a factor of 2 in case when
>>one P wire is grounded. The resistor must be not too small in order not
>>to damp the coil of the magneto. Do you know what would be the lower
>>limit of the resistance that can be safely connected to the P wire
>>without significant reduction of the spark energy? I guess this
>>approach would be safer than with the diodes.
>>
>>
>
> I'd use resistors but only read one mag at a time and use the
> resistors to prevent fault on tachometer wiring from taking
> a magneto down.
>
>
>
>
>>I wonder if you have a recommended diagram for driving an electronic rpm
>>meter from both magnetos?
>>
>>
>
> Sure. See
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Mags_with_Electronic_Tach.pdf
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>---
>
>
>
Bob,
Thank you for the answers and the diagram.
In the diagram on
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Mags_with_Electronic_Tach.pdf
I think, the resistors should be connected to terminals "1" on the switches, rather
than to terminals "3" which are the ground.
Also, the wire from the start button should go to termional "4" rather than to
terminal "6"
What resistance would you recommend to separate the tachometer from the magneto?
Is 1k sufficient to protect magneto from a short in the meter?
Jerzy
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Multimeter needs? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Nov 1, 2004, at 10:15 AM, Larry Bowen wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen"
> <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
> I figured that is what happened. Is my meter trashed, or is there a
> way
> to fix it?
Probably trashed if it doesn't have a protection fuse. The voltage
spike when the impulse coupling snaps is a pretty hefty one, like 300V.
Not conducive to the longevity of a solid-state device.
You can't use an ohmmeter to time a mag since the primary of the coil
looks like a DC short across the points. You can't see when the points
open. You need an AC signal (a buzz-box generates this) to tell when
the points open.
> The subsequent timing with a buzz box and A&P helper went fine, and I'm
> pretty sure we let the impulse mag click several times with the box in
> place. I assumed it had built in protection against the jolt. No?
Yes.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Multimeter needs? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Nov 1, 2004, at 10:17 AM, cgalley wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> Won't the ripple have to be very large? The absolute value of a ripple
> current isn't significant.
No, it probably isn't. But if you want to see how much ripple you have
you can tell the meter to AC-couple and then turn on the AC mode to
read only the value of the ripple. Since the ripple is not a pure sine
wave, only an RMS meter will tell you the actual magnitude of the
ripple voltage.
> A scope would be a
Yes, a scope would be a good tool. I have a Velleman HPS-40
scope/meter that I like a lot. I paid about $280 for it and it is a
perfectly-good 12MHz scope as well as doing all the voltmeter things.
It doesn't measure ohms tho'. For that I need another meter.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Larry Landucci <lllanducci@tds.net>
Bob,
Could you describe a similar circuit if a conventional ACS ignition
switch (with start position) is used rather than the two toggle system?
What would be a reasonable value for the resistors?
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski@provalue.net>
Bob,
Disregard the comment on the starting wire connection.
I have both magnetos with impulse coupling, and I did not notice that in
your diagram only one of them is impulse coupled.
Jerzy
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski@provalue.net>
Bob,
Probabbly the best solution would be to connect the upper resistor to
terminal "4" of the upper switch, and the lower resistor to terminal
"1" of the lower switch
Jerzy
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both |
magnetos
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
magnetos
>
>Bob,
>
>Thank you for the answers and the diagram.
>
>In the diagram on
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Mags_with_Electronic_Tach.pdf
>
>I think, the resistors should be connected to terminals "1" on the
>switches, rather than to terminals "3" which are the ground.
Good eye. I've revised the drawing and re-posted at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Mags_with_Electronic_Tach_A.pdf
>Also, the wire from the start button should go to termional "4" rather
>than to terminal "6"
No that one is correct. We want to enable the starter only when the right
magneto is OFF.
>What resistance would you recommend to separate the tachometer from the
>magneto? Is 1k sufficient to protect magneto from a short in the meter?
Probably. Give it a try and then run an experiment for us.
While operating from one magneto, clip-lead the tach signal
line to ground and see if you can perceive any changes in
operation of the engine.
Bob . . .
---
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn.com>
Jerry,
Until Bob responds, I would agree that the resistors should go to terminals
"1", however, the wire from the start button is correct on terminal "4."
The logic is that you want the right mag to be OFF for engine start and only
the left mag ON because of the impulse coupler. This prevents you from
starting with the right mag ON which could cause a kickback during the
start.
Pat Hatch
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerzy Krasinski" <krasinski@provalue.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Driving electronic rpm meter from both
magnetos
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski
> <krasinski@provalue.net>
>
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III magnetos wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>><b.nuckolls@cox.net> magnetos
>>
>>At 12:56 AM 10/31/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski
>>><krasinski@provalue.net>
>>>
>>>Bob,
>>>I use electronic rpm meter for the engine, and the problem is how to
>>>trigger the meter in order to have indications of rpm while switching
>>>
>>>
>>>from one magneto to the other.
>>
>>
>>>The simplest, but a crude way would be to add a switch selecting the
>>>magneto providing the signal to rpm meter.
>>>
>>>A diode from the P wire to the meter input (for each of the magnetos)
>>>would do the same automatically. But here comes a question - what is the
>>>peak voltage on the P wire during operation of the magneto? Also, that
>>>might be not the safest way, with blown diodes funny things might happen.
>>>
>>>A resistor from each P wire to the meter input (for each of the
>>>magnetos) would form a voltage divider by a factor of 2 in case when
>>>one P wire is grounded. The resistor must be not too small in order not
>>>to damp the coil of the magneto. Do you know what would be the lower
>>>limit of the resistance that can be safely connected to the P wire
>>>without significant reduction of the spark energy? I guess this
>>>approach would be safer than with the diodes.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I'd use resistors but only read one mag at a time and use the
>> resistors to prevent fault on tachometer wiring from taking
>> a magneto down.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>I wonder if you have a recommended diagram for driving an electronic rpm
>>>meter from both magnetos?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Sure. See
>>
>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Mags_with_Electronic_Tach.pdf
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>---
>>
>>
>>
>
> Bob,
>
> Thank you for the answers and the diagram.
>
> In the diagram on
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Mags_with_Electronic_Tach.pdf
>
> I think, the resistors should be connected to terminals "1" on the
> switches, rather than to terminals "3" which are the ground.
>
> Also, the wire from the start button should go to termional "4" rather
> than to terminal "6"
>
> What resistance would you recommend to separate the tachometer from the
> magneto? Is 1k sufficient to protect magneto from a short in the meter?
>
> Jerzy
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both |
magnetos
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net> magnetos
>snipped
> > I'd use resistors but only read one mag at a time and use the
> > resistors to prevent fault on tachometer wiring from taking
> > a magneto down.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>I wonder if you have a recommended diagram for driving an electronic rpm
> >>meter from both magnetos?
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Sure. See
> >
> > http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Mags_with_Electronic_Tach.pdf
> >
> >
> > Bob . . .
Bob
I just tried the link, but there was nothing there
Charlie Kuss
Message 18
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| Subject: | Xponder Ant ground plane size question. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" <jsto1@tampabay.rr.com>
Does anyone happen to know what the optimum size and shape a ground
plane should be to use an AV-22 transponder antenna on a composite
aircraft?
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Xponder Ant ground plane size question. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Don't know if he's using the same antenna or not, but James Redmon's Berkut13.com
website has stuff on his installation of a transponder antenna in the speedbrake
area of his Berkut.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Stone <jsto1@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Xponder Ant ground plane size question.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" <jsto1@tampabay.rr.com>
Does anyone happen to know what the optimum size and shape a ground
plane should be to use an AV-22 transponder antenna on a composite
aircraft?
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Wiring ARC IN-514R |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" <jsto1@tampabay.rr.com>
Here are a couple major electronics parts suppliers. If you have the
Cannon part number they may have the part. Some require a minimum
purchase so beware.
http://www.digikey.com/ http://www.jameco.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
William Bernard
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring ARC IN-514R
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Bernard"
--> <billbernard@worldnet.att.net>
I have an ARC IN-514R CDI that I would like to wire to show course
deviation from an apollo GX-55 gps. (There is a plane on the field with
this indicator wired to a flybuddy, but the man who wired it is no
longer in the area.)
The owner says tht the display is similar to a localizer in that the
needle simply moves left or right and the flag always show 'to'. Setting
a couse has no effect using the OBS has no effect.
I think that the nav left and right pins on the GX55 could be wired to
the loc left and right pins on the IN-514R and the TO & FROM pins wired
together. My question is is there anything else? There are also "nav
valid +" and "nav valid -" pins on the GX55 that seem to have no logical
place on the IN-514R and there is a ground pin and a wiper arm pin on
the IN-514R that seem to have no logical connection to the GX55.
Also, Does anyone know of a source for the cannon plug to fit the back
of the IN-514R?
Thanks for the help.
Bill
==
==
==
==
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Xponder Ant ground plane size question. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" <james@berkut13.com>
5.5 inches, according to Jim Weir. Works very will for me and many others.
http://www.berkut13.com/berkut30.htm
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
http://www.berkut13.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Stone" <jsto1@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Xponder Ant ground plane size question.
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone"
> <jsto1@tampabay.rr.com>
>
> Does anyone happen to know what the optimum size and shape a ground
> plane should be to use an AV-22 transponder antenna on a composite
> aircraft?
Message 22
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| Subject: | Xponder Ant ground plane size question. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
5.5-inch circle should do a good job.
Neal
>Does anyone happen to know what the optimum size and shape a ground
plane should be to use an AV-22 transponder antenna on a composite
aircraft?<
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Xponder Ant ground plane size question. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
5.25" min. diameter. 6 inches is OK. Bob has a "how to" on his website
for this. Let me know and I can send it to you.
John
On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 15:05:47 -0500, Jim Stone <jsto1@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone"
> <jsto1@tampabay.rr.com>
>
> Does anyone happen to know what the optimum size and shape a ground
> plane should be to use an AV-22 transponder antenna on a composite
> aircraft?
>
>
--
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Multimeter needs? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
<<Root Mean Squared - Might be useful with alternating current but what
value for DC? Tell me, Please! Cy Galley>>
11/1/2004
Hello Cy, You asked so here goes.
Your question implies that there is no AC electricity in our amateur built aircraft
to measure. It might be a very rare occurrence, but I had occasion recently
to measure RMS AC voltage in my amateur built experimental airplane.
The current used to provide the back lighting in the LCD (Liquid Crystal Display)
instruments for the Vision Microsystems 1000 electronic engine instrumentation
system is AC current provided by a small inverter in the system DPU (Data
Processing Unit).
When my instruments would not light one of the checks that I was asked to conduct
was to determine if there was at least 89 volts RMS between two of the 26 wires
in the ribbon cable going from the DPU to the instruments.
My el cheapo Radio Shack digital multi meter was up to the task and I was able
to do my trouble shooting by measuring AC RMS voltage.
There may be other LCDs out there that require AC electricity.
OC
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Xponder Ant ground plane size question. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:05 PM 11/1/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" <jsto1@tampabay.rr.com>
>
>Does anyone happen to know what the optimum size and shape a ground
>plane should be to use an AV-22 transponder antenna on a composite
>aircraft?
Ground planes for all antennas are optimum when their radius is
equal to the length of the antenna. Transponder antennas are 2.6""
tall so 5.2" diameter works for the ground plane disk. Comm antennas
are about 23" long so a series of 23" radials will synthesize a
46" disk.
Bob . . .
---
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both |
magnetos
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
magnetos
At 09:27 AM 11/1/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski
><krasinski@provalue.net>
>
>Bob,
>
>Disregard the comment on the starting wire connection.
>I have both magnetos with impulse coupling, and I did not notice that in
>your diagram only one of them is impulse coupled.
>
>Jerzy
Oh . . . then you don't NEED to run the start enable line through
either of the switches but running it to terminal 4 would offer
an extra layer of "disable" when the mag switch is off.
Bob . . .
---
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Base Station Antenna |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:47 AM 11/1/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>I subscribe to the rv-list and the aeroconnection list and have your
>aeroconnection book. All are a great resource.
>I spent way to much time on the computer trying to read and digest all the
>info that you provide. Thank you for your time and willingness to share
>your experience and knowledge.
You're most welcome.
>I have an old Narco Escort II I accquired through a project purchase. I
>would like to hook it up and use it as a base station just to listen
>(listen only) to the local traffic while I am building my RV-8. I need an
>antenna and being the cheap pilot that I am. I would like to make one to
>use. I have read your antenna section, but am a little hazy on the ground
>plane dimensions. I figure the antenna length should be about 22". Should
>the ground plane be 22" also? If so is that a diameter or a radius. Would
>a piece of aluminum at those dimensions work or would you still recommend
>using the foil tape?
How about a j-pole antenna? These are solid metal and therefore when mounted
on a properly grounded mast, do not represent a lightning hazard for a
land-based radio or it's operator. You can build this from a length
of copper pipe, a copper tee, and a copper ell. 3/4" pipe makes for a
rugged antenna. See:
http://www.packetradio.com/jpol2.htm
http://www.packetradio.com/jpol.htm
Enter 126.5 Mhz in the calculator box at it gives you all the critical
dimensions. A friend of mine built one of these for our airport when we
owned
it in 1989 and the same antenna is still up on the telephone pole
working fine
after 15 years.
Bob . . .
---
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:26 AM 11/1/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Larry Landucci <lllanducci@tds.net>
>
>Bob,
>Could you describe a similar circuit if a conventional ACS ignition
>switch (with start position) is used rather than the two toggle system?
This scheme won't work with a keyswitch. Not enough poles.
What does the manufacturer of your tachometer recommend?
> What would be a reasonable value for the resistors?
I don't recall what I've seen used in the past. 1K comes to
mind. Jerzy is going to try it and tell us how it works.
Bob . . .
---
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both |
magnetos
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
magnetos
At 09:35 AM 11/1/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski
><krasinski@provalue.net>
>
>Bob,
>Probabbly the best solution would be to connect the upper resistor to
>terminal "4" of the upper switch, and the lower resistor to terminal
>"1" of the lower switch
>Jerzy
???? Not sure what you're suggesting here . . . I believe that's what
it shows now at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Mags_with_Electronic_Tach_A.pdf
Bob . . .
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>---
>Version: 6.0.786 / Virus Database: 532 - Release Date: 10/29/2004
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
---
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both |
magnetos
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
magnetos
At 12:03 PM 11/1/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss
><chaztuna@adelphia.net> magnetos
>
>
> >snipped
> > > I'd use resistors but only read one mag at a time and use the
> > > resistors to prevent fault on tachometer wiring from taking
> > > a magneto down.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>I wonder if you have a recommended diagram for driving an electronic rpm
> > >>meter from both magnetos?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > Sure. See
> > >
> > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Mags_with_Electronic_Tach.pdf
> > >
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
>
>Bob
> I just tried the link, but there was nothing there
>Charlie Kuss
You missed the second link for revision A:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Mags_with_Electronic_Tach_A.pdf
Bob . . .
---
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - BREAKERS & SWITCH |
QUESTIONS
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
QUESTIONS
At 11:16 AM 11/1/2004 +1100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Francis, David CMDR"
><David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
>
>Bob,
>
>Two questions, wiring is Z-14:
>
>a. I have just 2 breakers, 2 x 5 amp for my two voltage regulators. In a
>past post you said:
>
> If you use breakers, go with the screws. You need to connect all the
> breakers together with a common bus bar which will screw directly
> onto the breaker terminals. One of the goals for using fuse blocks is to
> reduce the system parts count. If you use fast-on breakers, then
> the parts reduction gained with fast-ons at the breakers is lost
> when you have to fabricate a bus bar, support it, insulate it
> and install a jumper wire from the bus to the breaker with
> more screws and two terminals, only one of which is a fast-on.
> Really messy.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>I plan the breakers to he either side of the two low volts warning lights,
>how do I terminate wires to the screw terminals, and
Oh, sorry. I thought you were talking about using circuit breaker panels
instead of fuseblocks wherein you would need to build a bus-bar
across the rows of breakers. I understand now that you're talking
only about the pair field circuit OV crowbar breakers. Obviously, one
attaches WIRES to both terminals of these breakers . . . fast-on
or screw terminals would be fine here.
Screw terminals use ring terminals,
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/s816p.jpg
and the fast-on blades use the fast-on female terminals.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/MVC-004X.JPG
>b. I have the (2-10 equivalent)Carling miniature toggle switches with LEDs
>in the bat handles. They are rated at 3 amp at 28VDC, presumably around 5
>amps at 12VDC. My landing lights are 55 watts each = 4.5 amps, but are
>resistive loads.
Actually, lamps are LAMP loads and hard on switches. See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf
> Can I wire direct or should I go via a relay for each lamp?
>Switch derating factors in AC43.13 suggest relays?
Saw a Dragonfly at a flyin a couple of years ago where the builder
used miniature switches. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/miniswitches.jpg
His landing and taxi lights were 50w devices. He said he flew
at night quite a bit and that the switches worked well for
over 5 years. You can do a lot to help the switches out
by adding inrush limiters to the circuits. See:
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T043/1047.pdf
Bob . . .
---
Message 32
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| Subject: | BOB, somethings wrong with the clock |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: B Tomm <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
Bob,
Your recent posts indicate that they were sent in 2008! That keeps them on
the top of my email list. Nice way to keep them in my view but...
Otherwise thanks for the help on this forum and for the book. I have
learbed much and look forward to the electrical work coming soon.
Bevan
RV7A fuse
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [SMTP:b.nuckolls@cox.net]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Line of sight communication 0.00
DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX Date: is 96 hours or more after Received: date
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:28 PM 10/29/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill
><deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> >
> > If you do the path-loss calculation for VHF comm frequencies
> > you'll find that 1 watt of transmitter is good for about 1200
> > miles to a run-of-the-mill receiver and dipole antennas. If you
> > can see 'em you can talk to them.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Different frequencies, but have you ever tried moon bounce?
A friend of mind was into that about 1975. Had a big dish
in the back yard. Interesting stuff but beyond my budget at
the time.
Bob . . .
---
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