Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:58 AM - Re: speaking of measurements (James Foerster)
2. 05:37 AM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos (Trampas)
3. 05:37 AM - Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
4. 06:10 AM - Re: BOB, somethings wrong with the clock (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 06:13 AM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 06:29 AM - Re: Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 06:39 AM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos (Brian Lloyd)
8. 06:43 AM - Re: Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
9. 06:55 AM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos (Trampas)
10. 07:25 AM - Re: Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit (DWENSING@aol.com)
11. 07:27 AM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos (Trampas)
12. 07:50 AM - Re: Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit (erie)
13. 08:43 AM - Re: Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit (Vincent Welch)
14. 10:02 AM - Re: Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit (Jim Jewell)
15. 11:07 AM - Re: Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit (CFrank@edony.com)
16. 11:37 AM - Niagara/Denso Alternator Overvoltage protection (Christopher Stone)
17. 12:03 PM - Crimping tool (Bristolsabre@aol.com)
18. 12:59 PM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos (Brian Lloyd)
19. 03:34 PM - Re: Crimping tool (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 03:39 PM - Low Vacuum switch (Bordelon, Greg)
21. 04:40 PM - Re: Low Vacuum switch (richard dudley)
22. 06:13 PM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos (Trampas)
23. 07:05 PM - Re: Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit (Robert McCallum)
24. 07:17 PM - Re: Niagara/Denso Alternator Overvoltage protection (Denis Walsh)
25. 08:48 PM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos (Brian Lloyd)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: speaking of measurements |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comcast.net>
Bob,
It was I who mentioned this article, and after reading your description of
the easy to build constant current source, I would fully agree that this is
the way to go. The complicated microprocessor design is clever, and
probably neccessary for microohm measurements, but certainly not for the
milliohm measurements that we all might use for switches and high current
connections. I had not seen that design on your website before.
Jim Foerster J400
Message 2
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| Subject: | Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
Depending on the tachometer used you can connect a capacitor in series with
each p-lead and then combine them and connect to the tachometer.
I have just order some tachometer adapter boards which takes any type of
p-lead, and converts to an optical isolated open collector output. Using two
of these, one on each p-lead, then connecting the outputs together to create
one signal for the tachometer.
I have also designed a circuit which will take 8-28Vdc and output a stable
12Vdc at 2Amps. I designed this circuit for a friend who did not want the
weight of the big passive filters for his radios. Additionally he wanted a
circuit which would isolate his radio such that he could leave the radio on
while starting the engine.
Regards,
Trampas Stern
www.sterntech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Driving electronic rpm meter from both
magnetos
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net> magnetos
At 12:03 PM 11/1/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss
><chaztuna@adelphia.net> magnetos
>
>
> >snipped
> > > I'd use resistors but only read one mag at a time and use the
> > > resistors to prevent fault on tachometer wiring from taking
> > > a magneto down.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>I wonder if you have a recommended diagram for driving an electronic
rpm
> > >>meter from both magnetos?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > Sure. See
> > >
> > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Mags_with_Electronic_Tach.pdf
> > >
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
>
>Bob
> I just tried the link, but there was nothing there
>Charlie Kuss
You missed the second link for revision A:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Mags_with_Electronic_Tach_A.pdf
Bob . . .
---
Message 3
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| Subject: | Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
By Buddy commercial mechanic has this stuff he calls 'alligator strip.'
Its plastic strip, highly flexible, designed to line the inside of a
hole to protect the wires on a pass through like a bulkhead. What is
really cool about this stuff is that you simply cut it to what ever the
hole size is, which you don't have to know. Grommets frustrate me cause
I never have the right size and I know one day it will break down and
crack and fall apart. This stuff has to be cheap and is very easy to
install. It would function like a plastic bushing does, but again, you
do not have to know the hole size. Does anyone know what the commercial
name for this stuff is so I can go buy lots of it? Every hole in the
plane (except firewall) from a vent tube coming from the wing root, to
battery cable, could be protected easily with this stuff on every pass
through.
Thanks
Mike Stewart
Getting ready for wire
Do not archive the question
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: BOB, somethings wrong with the clock |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:05 PM 11/1/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: B Tomm <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
>
>Bob,
>
>Your recent posts indicate that they were sent in 2008! That keeps them on
>the top of my email list. Nice way to keep them in my view but...
>
>Otherwise thanks for the help on this forum and for the book. I have
>learbed much and look forward to the electrical work coming soon.
>
>Bevan
>RV7A fuse
Yeah, had a computer wander off into the weeds. I'm still
wrestling with some issues but about to go buy a new one.
When you can replace one for under $400 and it runs faster
to boot, you can't justify spending much time praying over it.
This one has been running 24/7 for two years. It's entitled
to be creaky in the joints.
Bob . . .
---
Message 5
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| Subject: | Driving electronic rpm meter from both |
magnetos
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
magnetos
>I have also designed a circuit which will take 8-28Vdc and output a stable
>12Vdc at 2Amps. I designed this circuit for a friend who did not want the
>weight of the big passive filters for his radios.
why did he need passive filters for his radios?
> Additionally he wanted a
>circuit which would isolate his radio such that he could leave the radio on
>while starting the engine.
why did he worry about leaving his radio on while starting
the engine?
---
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:37 AM 11/2/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
><mstewart@iss.net>
>
>By Buddy commercial mechanic has this stuff he calls 'alligator strip.'
>Its plastic strip, highly flexible, designed to line the inside of a
>hole to protect the wires on a pass through like a bulkhead. What is
>really cool about this stuff is that you simply cut it to what ever the
>hole size is, which you don't have to know. Grommets frustrate me cause
>I never have the right size and I know one day it will break down and
>crack and fall apart. This stuff has to be cheap and is very easy to
>install. It would function like a plastic bushing does, but again, you
>do not have to know the hole size. Does anyone know what the commercial
>name for this stuff is so I can go buy lots of it? Every hole in the
>plane (except firewall) from a vent tube coming from the wing root, to
>battery cable, could be protected easily with this stuff on every pass
>through.
>
>Thanks
>
>
>Mike Stewart
http://www.surplussales.com/Rubber-Plastic/Plastic-2.html
http://www.bgmicro.com/pdf/page21.pdf
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3666&item=6710484533&tc=photo
http://www.newark.com/product-details/text/CD121/6458.html
http://www.newark.com/product-details/text/CD121/6411.html
Bob . . .
>Getting ready for wire
>
>Do not archive the question
>
>
>---
>Version: 6.0.786 / Virus Database: 532 - Release Date: 10/29/2004
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
---
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Nov 2, 2004, at 9:37 AM, Trampas wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
>
> Depending on the tachometer used you can connect a capacitor in series
> with
> each p-lead and then combine them and connect to the tachometer.
I have been watching this thread for some time and didn't answer
because I figured someone else would. There seems too be a fair number
of misconceptions about how this might work.
Short answer:
You cannot combine the p-lead signals from both mags to drive your
tach. There is no combination of resistors, capacitors, or diodes that
will make it work reliably so don't try. Put in a switch to select
which mag will drive your tach input and let it go at that.
Long answer:
Have you ever looked at the signal on a p-lead of a mag? It is not a
simple on/off signal. It is a very complex, high-voltage, damped sine
wave with other cruft added in for flavor. Put a 'scope on your p-lead
to see what I mean. This is not a signal that can be combined with
anything else to make sense.
Also, since the timing of the two mags is slightly different (no matter
how good you are the points will never open at exactly the same time)
the waveforms on the p-leads are not even close to being synchronized.
Depending on how you connect the p-leads together through capacitors or
diodes, you might even compromise how the mags work thus leading to
strange behavior of your ignition system.
There is a way to take the p-lead signal and turn it into something
that looks somewhat like a simple pulse but it will take a fair number
of components to filter out the high-frequency (ringing) part of the
signal and then process it to produce a clean pulse. The problem then
is, once you do that, the signal no longer looks even remotely like the
signal from a p-lead and you tach may not recognize it anymore.
So add in a SPDT switch that selects right or left mag as input to your
tach and be done with it.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
OK the answer was sent to me directly. Its called Gromstrip, at least
that's the brand name of it.
I would like to hear if there is another name for it as a google search
only brought up a couple of suppliers.
Here is a description:
Gromstrip is a continuous length of extruded U-Channel for use as a
protective covering on sharp edges. It can be cut to desired length and
easily inserted into any hole, regardless of shape. Gromstrip requires
minimum space, grips surfaces snugly, and won't jar loose. Wherever
wires pass through a metal piece, Gromstrip used on sharp edges will
protect against fraying and cut-through of the wires.
Can be had here:
http://www.edmo.com/s2/s2-23.asp
here:
http://terminaltown.com/Pages/Page111.html
Thanks
Mike Stewart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS
Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
By Buddy commercial mechanic has this stuff he calls 'alligator strip.'
Its plastic strip, highly flexible, designed to line the inside of a
hole to protect the wires on a pass through like a bulkhead. What is
really cool about this stuff is that you simply cut it to what ever the
hole size is, which you don't have to know. Grommets frustrate me cause
I never have the right size and I know one day it will break down and
crack and fall apart. This stuff has to be cheap and is very easy to
install. It would function like a plastic bushing does, but again, you
do not have to know the hole size. Does anyone know what the commercial
name for this stuff is so I can go buy lots of it? Every hole in the
plane (except firewall) from a vent tube coming from the wing root, to
battery cable, could be protected easily with this stuff on every pass
through.
Thanks
Mike Stewart
Getting ready for wire
Message 9
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| Subject: | Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
The passive the filter is the inductor/capacitor solution which you and
others have mentioned several times. I think he actually purchased the
filter kit from Radio Shack.
The noise problem is the same as others have had, hum in radio or intercom
from avionics, alternator, etc.
The reason for having the option to leave the radio on was not so that he
really could, it was more so that he did not have to worry about it. That is
he did not want to have to worry about the possibility of load dumps or
low/high voltages harming his radio/electronics. My approach to electronic
designs is "do no harm to other devices and let no other devices do harm to
you." So the filter was designed to provide clean and safe power for
electronics.
Regards,
Trampas
www.sterntech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Driving electronic rpm meter from both
magnetos
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net> magnetos
>I have also designed a circuit which will take 8-28Vdc and output a stable
>12Vdc at 2Amps. I designed this circuit for a friend who did not want the
>weight of the big passive filters for his radios.
why did he need passive filters for his radios?
> Additionally he wanted a
>circuit which would isolate his radio such that he could leave the radio on
>while starting the engine.
why did he worry about leaving his radio on while starting
the engine?
---
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: DWENSING@aol.com
In a message dated 11/2/04 9:44:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, mstewart@iss.net
writes:
> OK the answer was sent to me directly. Its called Gromstrip, at least
> that's the brand name of it.
>
Mike,
I have heard it also called "Caterpillar" grommet. You know like the creeper
little fuzzy creature. It sort of resembles a caterpillar. Radio Shack is also
a source if you need some quick.
Dale Ensing
RV-6A N118DE
Waiting for the FAA guy to come see....
Message 11
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| Subject: | Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
Brian,
You are correct in some respects. However there are a number of different
ways for a tachometer to get a pick up signal. For example some tachometers
use an AC coupled signal which is then low pass filtered to get the signal.
In which case placing dual caps will work, and yes there are some negative
aspects to the option, but it will work, even if the timing is slightly off
between magnetos due to the low pass filtering in the device.
I have taken a long look at just about every ignition system know, and like
you said there is no one simple solution as it really depends on the design
of the tachometer. For example most automotive tachometers will not work
with p-leads due to the negative voltage spike that is not there with the
traditional car ignition system. For this reason I designed a conversion
circuit which will convert the ignition signal to a pulse train. Now of
different ignition systems it does require different conversion circuit for
example the Jabiru ignition system uses something like a Magnetronic
ignition system which has a different signal that other ignition systems. I
also designed converter circuits to buffer inductive pick up signals as
well.
Now you can take two of these circuits and use them to combine the
tachometer signals as that each of these circuits create an open collector
output which can be logically "or'ed" together. If there is a slight
difference in the timing of the signals this oring action will take car of
the difference.
Personally however I would prefer to have two electronic tachometers in my
engine monitoring system, one for the left magneto and one for the right.
The take the maximum of the two tachometers to show as the "main" tach. Then
I want the engine monitor to alarm if the tachometers ever differ by more
than 50 rpms. This way if in flight one of the magnetos or ignition systems
fail I will be notified at that moment. Thus I do not have to wait till the
next mag check to find out I have a bad magneto. In fact this is just the
way the Pulsar 200 engine monitor is designed.
I would also always place a low amperage fuse in line with my tachometer if
I am running off a p-lead system, regardless of the tachometer. This way if
the tachometer should ever short the p-lead it will blow the fuse and the
engine will keep running.
Regards,
Trampas Stern
www.sterntech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Lloyd
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Driving electronic rpm meter from both
magnetos
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Nov 2, 2004, at 9:37 AM, Trampas wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
>
> Depending on the tachometer used you can connect a capacitor in series
> with
> each p-lead and then combine them and connect to the tachometer.
I have been watching this thread for some time and didn't answer
because I figured someone else would. There seems too be a fair number
of misconceptions about how this might work.
Short answer:
You cannot combine the p-lead signals from both mags to drive your
tach. There is no combination of resistors, capacitors, or diodes that
will make it work reliably so don't try. Put in a switch to select
which mag will drive your tach input and let it go at that.
Long answer:
Have you ever looked at the signal on a p-lead of a mag? It is not a
simple on/off signal. It is a very complex, high-voltage, damped sine
wave with other cruft added in for flavor. Put a 'scope on your p-lead
to see what I mean. This is not a signal that can be combined with
anything else to make sense.
Also, since the timing of the two mags is slightly different (no matter
how good you are the points will never open at exactly the same time)
the waveforms on the p-leads are not even close to being synchronized.
Depending on how you connect the p-leads together through capacitors or
diodes, you might even compromise how the mags work thus leading to
strange behavior of your ignition system.
There is a way to take the p-lead signal and turn it into something
that looks somewhat like a simple pulse but it will take a fair number
of components to filter out the high-frequency (ringing) part of the
signal and then process it to produce a clean pulse. The problem then
is, once you do that, the signal no longer looks even remotely like the
signal from a p-lead and you tach may not recognize it anymore.
So add in a SPDT switch that selects right or left mag as input to your
tach and be done with it.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: erie <erie@shelbyvilledesign.com>
wicks, of course....
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=4917~subid=1405/index.html
erie
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
>
>By Buddy commercial mechanic has this stuff he calls 'alligator strip.'
>Its plastic strip, highly flexible, designed to line the inside of a
>hole to protect the wires on a pass through like a bulkhead. What is
>really cool about this stuff is that you simply cut it to what ever the
>hole size is, which you don't have to know. Grommets frustrate me cause
>I never have the right size and I know one day it will break down and
>crack and fall apart. This stuff has to be cheap and is very easy to
>install. It would function like a plastic bushing does, but again, you
>do not have to know the hole size. Does anyone know what the commercial
>name for this stuff is so I can go buy lots of it? Every hole in the
>plane (except firewall) from a vent tube coming from the wing root, to
>battery cable, could be protected easily with this stuff on every pass
>through.
>
>Thanks
>
>
>Mike Stewart
>
>Getting ready for wire
>
>Do not archive the question
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent@hotmail.com>
Also made my Panduit.....find any electrical supply outfit that reps Panduit
and request a catalog.
Vince
>From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
>Reply-To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit
>Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:43:09 -0500
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
><mstewart@iss.net>
>
>OK the answer was sent to me directly. Its called Gromstrip, at least
>that's the brand name of it.
>
>I would like to hear if there is another name for it as a google search
>only brought up a couple of suppliers.
>Here is a description:
>Gromstrip is a continuous length of extruded U-Channel for use as a
>protective covering on sharp edges. It can be cut to desired length and
>easily inserted into any hole, regardless of shape. Gromstrip requires
>minimum space, grips surfaces snugly, and won't jar loose. Wherever
>wires pass through a metal piece, Gromstrip used on sharp edges will
>protect against fraying and cut-through of the wires.
>
>Can be had here:
>http://www.edmo.com/s2/s2-23.asp
>here:
>http://terminaltown.com/Pages/Page111.html
>
>Thanks
>Mike Stewart
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS
>Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
>
>By Buddy commercial mechanic has this stuff he calls 'alligator strip.'
>Its plastic strip, highly flexible, designed to line the inside of a
>hole to protect the wires on a pass through like a bulkhead. What is
>really cool about this stuff is that you simply cut it to what ever the
>hole size is, which you don't have to know. Grommets frustrate me cause
>I never have the right size and I know one day it will break down and
>crack and fall apart. This stuff has to be cheap and is very easy to
>install. It would function like a plastic bushing does, but again, you
>do not have to know the hole size. Does anyone know what the commercial
>name for this stuff is so I can go buy lots of it? Every hole in the
>plane (except firewall) from a vent tube coming from the wing root, to
>battery cable, could be protected easily with this stuff on every pass
>through.
>
>Thanks
>
>
>Mike Stewart
>
>Getting ready for wire
>
>
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Stewart,
I have tied the "Gromstrip" product to straight edges with wire ties by
drilling a series of 3/32" holes with about 1/4" edge distance and spaced
about one or two inches apart.
In some cases there are edges of holes that are oddly shaped to facilitate
clearances for a removable instrument panel for instance. With the holes
placed well at the corners etc. I use the wire ties to hold the edge
material in place
I have used it on edges that are in close proximity to the #2 battery wires
for extra protection.
In some cases I have used this for future protection of my own hyde in
awkward reach throughs.
This stuff should be commonly found at electrical contractor suppliers and
electronics supply outlets.
It comes in at least two widths.
Others have used tank sealant, RTV. or what have you to secure this material
in places where inspections will require repeated re and re of wires lines
or hoses.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
> <mstewart@iss.net>
>
> By Buddy commercial mechanic has this stuff he calls 'alligator strip.'
> Its plastic strip, highly flexible, designed to line the inside of a
> hole to protect the wires on a pass through like a bulkhead. What is
> really cool about this stuff is that you simply cut it to what ever the
> hole size is, which you don't have to know. Grommets frustrate me cause
> I never have the right size and I know one day it will break down and
> crack and fall apart. This stuff has to be cheap and is very easy to
> install. It would function like a plastic bushing does, but again, you
> do not have to know the hole size. Does anyone know what the commercial
> name for this stuff is so I can go buy lots of it? Every hole in the
> plane (except firewall) from a vent tube coming from the wing root, to
> battery cable, could be protected easily with this stuff on every pass
> through.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Mike Stewart
>
> Getting ready for wire
>
> Do not archive the question
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: CFrank@edony.com
Ah, the old MS21266 "alligator grommet". You can also bond it with Hysol.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Jewell [mailto:jjewell@telus.net]
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Stewart,
I have tied the "Gromstrip" product to straight edges with wire ties by
drilling a series of 3/32" holes with about 1/4" edge distance and spaced
about one or two inches apart.
In some cases there are edges of holes that are oddly shaped to facilitate
clearances for a removable instrument panel for instance. With the holes
placed well at the corners etc. I use the wire ties to hold the edge
material in place
I have used it on edges that are in close proximity to the #2 battery wires
for extra protection.
In some cases I have used this for future protection of my own hyde in
awkward reach throughs.
This stuff should be commonly found at electrical contractor suppliers and
electronics supply outlets.
It comes in at least two widths.
Others have used tank sealant, RTV. or what have you to secure this material
in places where inspections will require repeated re and re of wires lines
or hoses.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
> <mstewart@iss.net>
>
> By Buddy commercial mechanic has this stuff he calls 'alligator strip.'
> Its plastic strip, highly flexible, designed to line the inside of a
> hole to protect the wires on a pass through like a bulkhead. What is
> really cool about this stuff is that you simply cut it to what ever the
> hole size is, which you don't have to know. Grommets frustrate me cause
> I never have the right size and I know one day it will break down and
> crack and fall apart. This stuff has to be cheap and is very easy to
> install. It would function like a plastic bushing does, but again, you
> do not have to know the hole size. Does anyone know what the commercial
> name for this stuff is so I can go buy lots of it? Every hole in the
> plane (except firewall) from a vent tube coming from the wing root, to
> battery cable, could be protected easily with this stuff on every pass
> through.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Mike Stewart
>
> Getting ready for wire
>
> Do not archive the question
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Niagara/Denso Alternator Overvoltage protection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Christopher Stone <rv8iator@earthlink.net>
Good Morning all...
We (two RV-8 builders) are at the "add electrical system" point in the construction
process. From front to back the first item in question is the alternator.
Having followed this list for some time I have concluded the Denso 40 amp alternator
is the item that fits our output/weight/simplicity criteria.
A search of the archives was less then productive.
The question(s):
Has anyone installed the Niagara alternater with over volatge protection package.
The alternator appears to be a standard Denso with internal regulation. The overvoltage
protection is by Zeftronics.
http://www.niagaraairparts.com/ASP101-PIT%201.pdf
The overvoltage circuit appears to function by sensing alternator output voltage.
When the voltage exceeds the preset threshold it then opens a contactor in
series with the alternator output.
This looks like it will work... A couple of questions though.
What is the time constant of the circuit? Is it fast enough to catch an overvoltage
event before it can damage black boxes?
Since it instantly unloads the alternator, if the alternator wasn't already fried
which caused the overvoltage event, wouldn't it be fried by the sudden loss
of load?
Thanks in advance...
This list has been a gold mine of information!
Chris Stone
Message 17
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bristolsabre@aol.com
Bob,
I just received among other things, my Professional Ratchet Crimping Tool
from BANDC, but I have a feeling it is put together incorrectly.
The yellow/ 12-10 AG is at the top and the red/22-18 AWG closest to the pivot
point of the tool.
That will give the lowest pressure to the biggest connector. I was just able
to crimp a 12-10
connector, but I had to use all my strenght.
Are any of the interchangeable dies for crimping coax cable?
Regards
Tore S Bristol
FEW Tf 51
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Nov 2, 2004, at 11:26 AM, Trampas wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
>
> Brian,
>
> You are correct in some respects. However there are a number of
> different
> ways for a tachometer to get a pick up signal.
I am correct within the context of the question which was how to
combine the signals from two p-leads into one commercial off-the-shelf
tach. If you want to go into custom tach design as we will down this
message it is very possible to build something that will readily
combing the signals from the two p-leads and drive the tach.
> For example some tachometers
> use an AC coupled signal which is then low pass filtered to get the
> signal.
> In which case placing dual caps will work, and yes there are some
> negative
> aspects to the option, but it will work, even if the timing is
> slightly off
> between magnetos due to the low pass filtering in the device.
The problem is that you are summing the two waveforms. Consider that
you are summing the high frequency component. I can see complete
cancelation in some cases. Now if you put in a diode peak detector
followed by low pass filtering *before* you get to the tach it just
might work but just summing the two waveforms is unlikely to produce
the results you expect no matter what you do after.
> I have taken a long look at just about every ignition system know, and
> like
> you said there is no one simple solution as it really depends on the
> design
> of the tachometer. For example most automotive tachometers will not
> work
> with p-leads due to the negative voltage spike that is not there with
> the
> traditional car ignition system.
Actually you do get a negative excursion with a kettering ignition
system but it does have a significant DC component which provides a
bias. The major peak is like + + + +. The magneto output is
symmetrical about zero if you consider subsequent firings with the
major peak being + - + -, etc.
> For this reason I designed a conversion
> circuit which will convert the ignition signal to a pulse train. Now of
> different ignition systems it does require different conversion
> circuit for
> example the Jabiru ignition system uses something like a Magnetronic
> ignition system which has a different signal that other ignition
> systems. I
> also designed converter circuits to buffer inductive pick up signals as
> well.
In the case of most electronic ignitions you just pick off the firing
signal while it is still something like a TTL level. No muss, no fuss,
and no filtering needed.
For a magneto or kettering ignition it isn't hard to produce a filter
to make a signal useful. You can use a series resistor, a full-wave
bridge rectifier, a shunt capacitor to sample the peak and provide
low-pass, and then drive an optoisolator to keep the HV cruft out of
the rest of your digital electronics. The cap will discharge pretty
quickly through the LED in the opto. Select resistor value to current
limit the LED and cap value to control fall-time.
> Now you can take two of these circuits and use them to combine the
> tachometer signals as that each of these circuits create an open
> collector
> output which can be logically "or'ed" together. If there is a slight
> difference in the timing of the signals this oring action will take
> car of
> the difference.
Yes, if you do all this ahead of the tach. That is what I was
originally saying. OTOH, if the tach has its own input conditioning
circuitry that expects the HV pulse, doing all this produces a pulse
that won't drive your tach anymore which gets me back to my original
answer.
> Personally however I would prefer to have two electronic tachometers
> in my
> engine monitoring system, one for the left magneto and one for the
> right.
Agreed. I would also have the system looking for missing pulses to
tell me if I am having a problem with one of the mags too.
> The take the maximum of the two tachometers to show as the "main"
> tach. Then
> I want the engine monitor to alarm if the tachometers ever differ by
> more
> than 50 rpms.
Well, if they are from the same engine they never will differ in
frequency. OTOH you might miss a pulse and that tells you something.
The engine monitor can then tell you about the missing pulses and flag
the mag as possibly failing.
> This way if in flight one of the magnetos or ignition systems
> fail I will be notified at that moment. Thus I do not have to wait
> till the
> next mag check to find out I have a bad magneto. In fact this is just
> the
> way the Pulsar 200 engine monitor is designed.
It only makes sense.
> I would also always place a low amperage fuse in line with my
> tachometer if
> I am running off a p-lead system, regardless of the tachometer. This
> way if
> the tachometer should ever short the p-lead it will blow the fuse and
> the
> engine will keep running.
Good idea but the series resistor does the same thing, i.e. provides
isolation of the mag from the tach circuitry. To me it appears that
the resistor is both necessary and sufficient.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Crimping tool |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:03 PM 11/2/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bristolsabre@aol.com
>
>Bob,
>I just received among other things, my Professional Ratchet Crimping Tool
>from BANDC, but I have a feeling it is put together incorrectly.
>The yellow/ 12-10 AG is at the top and the red/22-18 AWG closest to the pivot
>point of the tool.
> That will give the lowest pressure to the biggest connector. I was just
> able
>to crimp a 12-10
>connector, but I had to use all my strenght.
Hmmm . . . I noted that in my evaluation of the tool a couple
of weeks ago. I sent the tool back to B&C and copied them
on the note suggesting that the dies were installed into the
tool backwards (you can remove them and re-install the
other direction).
However, I noted further that the tool put the crimps
too far apart on a PIDG terminal. Further, the insulation
grip did not close a red terminal down on 22AWG Tefzel. See
the following photos. I cannot recommend that tool. See
following pictures on my website.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/P255.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/P256.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/P257.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/P258.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/P259.jpg
>Are any of the interchangeable dies for crimping coax cable?
Yes . . . but die-sets were more than half
cost of tool and taking time to change them out
was a bit of a pain. All my tools are dedicated to
a single task.
Bob . . .
---
Message 20
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| Subject: | Low Vacuum switch |
3.60 ALT_MED Misspelled medication name
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bordelon, Greg" <gbordelon@hess.com>
I wish to install a low vacuum warning light on my panel. I found these
switches from Honeywell,
http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/hss/hobbscorp/P3_6.pdf (scroll to
the bottom) that I think will work to illuminate a lamp. I wanted to ask
what anyone else is using for a low vacuum switch?
Thx - Greg
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Low Vacuum switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard dudley <rhdudley@att.net>
Hi Greg,
Precise Flight (preciseflight.com) has a vacuum switch that they will
sell separately. They have a whole alternate vacuum system with a
shuttle valve that uses manifold vacuum. It includes the switch.
However, they will sell the switch and an annunciator light separately.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
Bordelon, Greg wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bordelon, Greg" <gbordelon@hess.com>
>
>I wish to install a low vacuum warning light on my panel. I found these
>switches from Honeywell,
>http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/hss/hobbscorp/P3_6.pdf (scroll to
>the bottom) that I think will work to illuminate a lamp. I wanted to ask
>what anyone else is using for a low vacuum switch?
>
>Thx - Greg
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
I think we have beat the horse pretty well. So it basically boils down to
"it depends on the tachometer."
Regards,
Trampas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Lloyd
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Driving electronic rpm meter from both
magnetos
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Nov 2, 2004, at 11:26 AM, Trampas wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
>
> Brian,
>
> You are correct in some respects. However there are a number of
> different
> ways for a tachometer to get a pick up signal.
I am correct within the context of the question which was how to
combine the signals from two p-leads into one commercial off-the-shelf
tach. If you want to go into custom tach design as we will down this
message it is very possible to build something that will readily
combing the signals from the two p-leads and drive the tach.
> For example some tachometers
> use an AC coupled signal which is then low pass filtered to get the
> signal.
> In which case placing dual caps will work, and yes there are some
> negative
> aspects to the option, but it will work, even if the timing is
> slightly off
> between magnetos due to the low pass filtering in the device.
The problem is that you are summing the two waveforms. Consider that
you are summing the high frequency component. I can see complete
cancelation in some cases. Now if you put in a diode peak detector
followed by low pass filtering *before* you get to the tach it just
might work but just summing the two waveforms is unlikely to produce
the results you expect no matter what you do after.
> I have taken a long look at just about every ignition system know, and
> like
> you said there is no one simple solution as it really depends on the
> design
> of the tachometer. For example most automotive tachometers will not
> work
> with p-leads due to the negative voltage spike that is not there with
> the
> traditional car ignition system.
Actually you do get a negative excursion with a kettering ignition
system but it does have a significant DC component which provides a
bias. The major peak is like + + + +. The magneto output is
symmetrical about zero if you consider subsequent firings with the
major peak being + - + -, etc.
> For this reason I designed a conversion
> circuit which will convert the ignition signal to a pulse train. Now of
> different ignition systems it does require different conversion
> circuit for
> example the Jabiru ignition system uses something like a Magnetronic
> ignition system which has a different signal that other ignition
> systems. I
> also designed converter circuits to buffer inductive pick up signals as
> well.
In the case of most electronic ignitions you just pick off the firing
signal while it is still something like a TTL level. No muss, no fuss,
and no filtering needed.
For a magneto or kettering ignition it isn't hard to produce a filter
to make a signal useful. You can use a series resistor, a full-wave
bridge rectifier, a shunt capacitor to sample the peak and provide
low-pass, and then drive an optoisolator to keep the HV cruft out of
the rest of your digital electronics. The cap will discharge pretty
quickly through the LED in the opto. Select resistor value to current
limit the LED and cap value to control fall-time.
> Now you can take two of these circuits and use them to combine the
> tachometer signals as that each of these circuits create an open
> collector
> output which can be logically "or'ed" together. If there is a slight
> difference in the timing of the signals this oring action will take
> car of
> the difference.
Yes, if you do all this ahead of the tach. That is what I was
originally saying. OTOH, if the tach has its own input conditioning
circuitry that expects the HV pulse, doing all this produces a pulse
that won't drive your tach anymore which gets me back to my original
answer.
> Personally however I would prefer to have two electronic tachometers
> in my
> engine monitoring system, one for the left magneto and one for the
> right.
Agreed. I would also have the system looking for missing pulses to
tell me if I am having a problem with one of the mags too.
> The take the maximum of the two tachometers to show as the "main"
> tach. Then
> I want the engine monitor to alarm if the tachometers ever differ by
> more
> than 50 rpms.
Well, if they are from the same engine they never will differ in
frequency. OTOH you might miss a pulse and that tells you something.
The engine monitor can then tell you about the missing pulses and flag
the mag as possibly failing.
> This way if in flight one of the magnetos or ignition systems
> fail I will be notified at that moment. Thus I do not have to wait
> till the
> next mag check to find out I have a bad magneto. In fact this is just
> the
> way the Pulsar 200 engine monitor is designed.
It only makes sense.
> I would also always place a low amperage fuse in line with my
> tachometer if
> I am running off a p-lead system, regardless of the tachometer. This
> way if
> the tachometer should ever short the p-lead it will blow the fuse and
> the
> engine will keep running.
Good idea but the series resistor does the same thing, i.e. provides
isolation of the mag from the tach circuitry. To me it appears that
the resistor is both necessary and sufficient.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Grommet/bushing like thingy whatsit |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
Used to be generically referred to as "strip grommet" or "grommet strip"
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>I would like to hear if there is another name for it as a google search
>only brought up a couple of suppliers.
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Niagara/Denso Alternator Overvoltage protection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@comcast.net>
I have been operating the Niagra Denso 40 for a couple years, probably
350 hours or so. I concur it is a great machine.I can't speak for the
zeff ov thingy. I have the Nuckolls version, which probably does have
a very rapid response, and uses a huge contactor, which also responds
fast with a snap. I have most certainly checked the capability of the
Denso to react to instant unload and it has not fried. This has been
done several times both inadvertantly and advertantly before I knew it
was a risk.
One additional thing I would highly recommend is the Nuckolls low
voltage warning lite. It is cheap, cute, bright, and will remind you
to turn off the batt switch after flight by flashing in your face. If
it flashes in flight it will remind you to look for a nearby landing
site, where they will have an auto shop which can fix or replace your
denso...
Denis
On Nov 2, 2004, at 12:36 PM, Christopher Stone wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Christopher Stone
> <rv8iator@earthlink.net>
>
> Good Morning all...
>
> We (two RV-8 builders) are at the "add electrical system" point in the
> construction process. From front to back the first item in question
> is the alternator. Having followed this list for some time I have
> concluded the Denso 40 amp alternator is the item that fits our
> output/weight/simplicity criteria.
>
> A search of the archives was less then productive.
>
> The question(s):
>
> Has anyone installed the Niagara alternater with over volatge
> protection package.
>
> The alternator appears to be a standard Denso with internal
> regulation. The overvoltage protection is by Zeftronics.
>
> http://www.niagaraairparts.com/ASP101-PIT%201.pdf
>
> The overvoltage circuit appears to function by sensing alternator
> output voltage. When the voltage exceeds the preset threshold it then
> opens a contactor in series with the alternator output.
>
> This looks like it will work... A couple of questions though.
>
> What is the time constant of the circuit? Is it fast enough to catch
> an overvoltage event before it can damage black boxes?
>
> Since it instantly unloads the alternator, if the alternator wasn't
> already fried which caused the overvoltage event, wouldn't it be fried
> by the sudden loss of load?
>
> Thanks in advance...
>
> This list has been a gold mine of information!
>
> Chris Stone
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Nov 2, 2004, at 10:11 PM, Trampas wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
>
> I think we have beat the horse pretty well. So it basically boils down
> to
> "it depends on the tachometer."
Almost. I don't think you can combine the signals from the two p-leads
without significant preprocessing. And once you do that the rest is
cake.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
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