---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 11/05/04: 35 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:09 AM - Another bad story (Brian Lloyd) 2. 05:27 AM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 3. 05:40 AM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 4. 06:05 AM - Re: Another bad story (Mark C. Milgrom) 5. 06:13 AM - Re: Another bad story (David E. Nelson) 6. 07:25 AM - Re: Another bad story (Brian Lloyd) 7. 07:26 AM - Re: Another bad story (Brian Lloyd) 8. 07:32 AM - EI UBG 16? (M Mladejovsky) 9. 07:34 AM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos (Brian Lloyd) 10. 08:35 AM - Hangar radio (Fergus Kyle) 11. 08:50 AM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos (Scott Aldrich) 12. 09:19 AM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos (Brian Lloyd) 13. 09:22 AM - Re: Another bad story (Mickey Coggins) 14. 09:51 AM - Re: Another bad story (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 09:51 AM - Re: Hangar Radios (jerb) 16. 10:04 AM - Re: Re: 35amp PM alternator (Maureen & Bob Christensen) 17. 10:37 AM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos (Scott Aldrich) 18. 10:40 AM - Re: Another bad story (Brian Lloyd) 19. 10:41 AM - Re: Hangar Radios (Brian Lloyd) 20. 10:45 AM - Re: Another bad story (Brian Lloyd) 21. 11:15 AM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos (Brian Lloyd) 22. 11:46 AM - Re: Another bad story (Mickey Coggins) 23. 12:14 PM - Re: Hangar Radios (KITFOXZ@aol.com) 24. 12:50 PM - Re: Short antenna cable for back of radio (Mickey Coggins) 25. 12:59 PM - Re: Hangar Radios (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 26. 01:09 PM - Re: Another bad story (Guy Buchanan) 27. 01:25 PM - Re: Short antenna cable for back of radio (Mark Steitle) 28. 01:50 PM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 29. 01:52 PM - Re: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 30. 01:57 PM - Re: Hangar Radios (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 31. 02:07 PM - Re: Hangar Radios (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 32. 04:21 PM - Re: Short antenna cable for back of radio (Walter Tondu) 33. 04:42 PM - Re: Re: 35amp PM alternator (Jim Stone) 34. 06:03 PM - Re: Re: 35amp PM alternator (Maureen & Bob Christensen) 35. 06:47 PM - Re: Re: 35amp PM alternator (GMC) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:09:16 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: AeroElectric-List: Another bad story --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd I just posted the following to the AOPA "Never Again Online" forum. You can read the original article at: http://www.aopa.org/pilot/never_again/2004/na0411.html -------- Here we have another scary story in the "Never Again Online" column. This one from a man who suffers from a failure of the charging system, recognizes the fact, and then does just about everything wrong, surviving by, "The Lord must have heard my wife's prayer because I know I was not a good enough pilot to have come through all this without a scratch." Oh please Mr. Stone. What a load of road apples. This "Never Again" has *nothing* to do with a failure of the charging system at night and everything to do with a pilot who exhibits not even the slightest familiarity with his airplane and poor decision-making skills to boot. Mr. Stone, you took a simple minor system failure and through poor decision-making and failure to understand the basic functions of your airplane turned it into something much worse, at least in your mind. Even so the whole thing should have been handled easily. Maybe this event will prompt you to get some training and practice with your airplane before you become a statistic and affect my insurance rates, not to mention causing the FAA to issue yet another unnecessary ruling to protect us from ourselves. And if I were your wife I would have slapped you silly. Brian Lloyd --------- Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:19 AM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 11/4/04 10:02:01 PM Central Standard Time, BobsV35B@aol.com writes: > When you say it sounds absolutely IDENTICAL with the other one off, does > that mean you perceive no drop? >>>>> Hi Bob- No, same DROP when either mag switched off, just as you probably did a better job of explaining than I did- what I should have said instead of "absolutely identical" was that I could perceive no difference with my untuned ear! The original question was the desire to accurately determine rpm during mag check- not sure how accurate this has to be to determine the relative condition of each ignition system... easy to do with the ear, and no added complexity to the plane- Mark - do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:31 AM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 11/4/04 10:05:47 PM Central Standard Time, brianl@lloyd.com writes: > OTOH, the engine mfgr specs > a specific difference in drop between the two engines as a go/no-go > item and that number is usually something like 50 RPM. > >>>> Understood- but what does the actual number really mean? If I switch off either mag and nothing happens, I know that entire system is either not working at all or not grounding- If I switch either mag off and the engine runs rough, then there is likely something wrong with an individual plug/wire system. Both of these failures would seem pretty obvious to the ear. What else can a mag check really indicate? Mark ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:43 AM PST US From: "Mark C. Milgrom" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Another bad story --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark C. Milgrom" Agreed, Brian. However, you must give Mr. Stone a least a little bit of credit for writing the article in the first place. After all, if YOU did something really stupid while flying YOUR airplane, would you have the courage to write an article about it and expose yourself to public humiliation? Mark Milgrom Brian Lloyd wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > >I just posted the following to the AOPA "Never Again Online" forum. >You can read the original article at: > >http://www.aopa.org/pilot/never_again/2004/na0411.html > >-------- >Here we have another scary story in the "Never Again >Online" column. This one from a man who suffers from a >failure of the charging system, recognizes the fact, and >then does just about everything wrong, surviving by, >"The Lord must have heard my wife's prayer because I >know I was not a good enough pilot to have come through >all this without a scratch." Oh please Mr. Stone. What >a load of road apples. > >This "Never Again" has *nothing* to do with a failure of >the charging system at night and everything to do with a >pilot who exhibits not even the slightest familiarity >with his airplane and poor decision-making skills to >boot. > >Mr. Stone, you took a simple minor system failure and >through poor decision-making and failure to understand >the basic functions of your airplane turned it into >something much worse, at least in your mind. Even so >the whole thing should have been handled easily. > >Maybe this event will prompt you to get some training >and practice with your airplane before you become a >statistic and affect my insurance rates, not to mention >causing the FAA to issue yet another unnecessary ruling >to protect us from ourselves. > >And if I were your wife I would have slapped you silly. > >Brian Lloyd > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:52 AM PST US From: "David E. Nelson" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Another bad story --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David E. Nelson" Interesting story...the thing I find odd is that at the very end about what was learned is that he doesn't mention anything about believeing his instruments even though "I was still not convinced that the ammeter was discharging." I wonder why he was convinced that it was charging? I find this discouraging since he's apparently an instrument rated private pilot and faith in your instruments is compounded even more, IMHO. Regards, /\/elson On Fri, 5 Nov 2004, Brian Lloyd wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > > I just posted the following to the AOPA "Never Again Online" forum. > You can read the original article at: > > http://www.aopa.org/pilot/never_again/2004/na0411.html > > -------- > Here we have another scary story in the "Never Again > Online" column. This one from a man who suffers from a > failure of the charging system, recognizes the fact, and > then does just about everything wrong, surviving by, > "The Lord must have heard my wife's prayer because I > know I was not a good enough pilot to have come through > all this without a scratch." Oh please Mr. Stone. What > a load of road apples. > > This "Never Again" has *nothing* to do with a failure of > the charging system at night and everything to do with a > pilot who exhibits not even the slightest familiarity > with his airplane and poor decision-making skills to > boot. > > Mr. Stone, you took a simple minor system failure and > through poor decision-making and failure to understand > the basic functions of your airplane turned it into > something much worse, at least in your mind. Even so > the whole thing should have been handled easily. > > Maybe this event will prompt you to get some training > and practice with your airplane before you become a > statistic and affect my insurance rates, not to mention > causing the FAA to issue yet another unnecessary ruling > to protect us from ourselves. > > And if I were your wife I would have slapped you silly. > > Brian Lloyd > --------- > > > Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza > brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201 > +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 > > There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good > citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. > > -- ~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~ time, then break it again. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:16 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Another bad story --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd On Nov 5, 2004, at 10:05 AM, Mark C. Milgrom wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark C. Milgrom" > > > Agreed, Brian. However, you must give Mr. Stone a least a little bit > of > credit for writing the article in the first place. After all, if YOU > did something really stupid while flying YOUR airplane, would you have > the courage to write an article about it and expose yourself to public > humiliation? Oh, you mean the time I ran out of gas and had to make a dead-stick landing at Brackett Field in Pomona while on a supervised IFR cross-country for my commercial ticket? Yeah. That story was in Flying Magazine's "I learned about flying from that" series about 25 years ago. It ended up in their collection. That was an interesting chain of errors that lead to bad decisions but I had the help of my CFI to make it happen. Oh, and one of the problems was unfamiliarity with the aircraft I was flying. It was the first time I had flown that type of aircraft. When we landed in San Diego I wanted to refuel the aircraft but the CFI nixed it. I was the PIC but I abdicated my responsibility. It showed how an incident or accident requires a chain of events; that you can break that chain at any point and prevent the incident/accident. So, yes, mea culpa. It makes me more sensitive and leads me to emphasize decision making and understanding the aircraft when training my students. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:21 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Another bad story --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd On Nov 5, 2004, at 10:05 AM, David E. Nelson wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David E. Nelson" > > > > Interesting story...the thing I find odd is that at the very end about > what was > learned is that he doesn't mention anything about believeing his > instruments > even though "I was still not convinced that the ammeter was > discharging." I > wonder why he was convinced that it was charging? I find this > discouraging > since he's apparently an instrument rated private pilot and faith in > your > instruments is compounded even more, IMHO. That had also crossed my mind. It also reinforces that old adage: "It is better to be down there wishing you were up here than to be up here wishing you were down there." Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:05 AM PST US From: M Mladejovsky Subject: AeroElectric-List: EI UBG 16? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: M Mladejovsky Anybody know the sensitivity of the UBG16 inputs used with external "function modules"? In other words, how many mV at the input does it take to display 1000 or 1999 on the UBG readout? Another question. How much filtering is there inside the instrument? In other words, how much filtering is required externally if you want to use the UBG 16 as digital voltmeter to read the "average" voltage of a signal that might have a 10% ripple at several hundred Hz. Mike Mladejovsky ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:23 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd On Nov 5, 2004, at 9:40 AM, Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote: > Understood- but what does the actual number really mean? If I switch > off > either mag and nothing happens, I know that entire system is either > not working > at all or not grounding- If I switch either mag off and the engine > runs rough, > then there is likely something wrong with an individual plug/wire > system. > Both of these failures would seem pretty obvious to the ear. What > else can a > mag check really indicate? Excessive drop on one mag with a smooth-running engine: mag timing. Excessive drop on either mag even if the difference is within specs: mixture. Do you ever watch what the EGT does when you turn off one mag? If you have an engine monitor seeing the amount of the EGT rise will tell you something as well (higher than normal EGT rise probably indicates late mag timing and will be accompanied by a greater-that-normal RPM drop). One of the important things is to know how your airplane normally feels, looks, and sounds during a normal run-up. What is the normal drop for each mag? What is normal EGT rise on one mag? What is the manifold pressure at the run-up RPM normally? Where does the oil pressure sit at idle and run-up RPM? If any of these things change it is grounds to wonder what has changed in the engine even if everything is still within "normal" specs. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:26 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hangar radio --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" "BL> To get signal from outside to inside get a bunch of hookup wire and BL> wrap several turns around your radio, top to bottom, not side to side. BL> I would guess that 10 turns is a good starting point. Attach one end BL> of the wire to a good ground and the other end outside and up in the BL> air, as long as you can make it. 100' would not be too much. What happens when it gets struck by lightening?" It blows into 402 pieces 2 inches long all over your back yard and you go out and buy another $3 radio and 50 feet of wire. At least that's what I did. Ferg Europa A064 do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:09 AM PST US From: "Scott Aldrich" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Aldrich" I wasn't really following this so I apologize if this is already answered in this discussion. I was planning on the Grand Rapids EIS for my M14P. To be able see the RPM on each mag I will need a switch to select which mag runs the tach., or at least that is the simplest solution?? Thanks, Scott -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd On Nov 5, 2004, at 9:40 AM, Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote: > Understood- but what does the actual number really mean? If I switch > off > either mag and nothing happens, I know that entire system is either > not working > at all or not grounding- If I switch either mag off and the engine > runs rough, > then there is likely something wrong with an individual plug/wire > system. > Both of these failures would seem pretty obvious to the ear. What > else can a > mag check really indicate? Excessive drop on one mag with a smooth-running engine: mag timing. Excessive drop on either mag even if the difference is within specs: mixture. Do you ever watch what the EGT does when you turn off one mag? If you have an engine monitor seeing the amount of the EGT rise will tell you something as well (higher than normal EGT rise probably indicates late mag timing and will be accompanied by a greater-that-normal RPM drop). One of the important things is to know how your airplane normally feels, looks, and sounds during a normal run-up. What is the normal drop for each mag? What is normal EGT rise on one mag? What is the manifold pressure at the run-up RPM normally? Where does the oil pressure sit at idle and run-up RPM? If any of these things change it is grounds to wonder what has changed in the engine even if everything is still within "normal" specs. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:14 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd On Nov 5, 2004, at 12:49 PM, Scott Aldrich wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Aldrich" > > > I wasn't really following this so I apologize if this is already > answered in > this discussion. > > I was planning on the Grand Rapids EIS for my M14P. To be able see > the RPM > on each mag I will need a switch to select which mag runs the tach., > or at > least that is the simplest solution?? I haven't looked closely at the GR engine monitor but doesn't it have two mag inputs to avoid the problem? Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:53 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Another bad story --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Hi, There are a lot of these "never again" stories that are like this. I usually learn from them, even if the author's conclusions don't match my own. What I can't quite figure out is why anyone would fly any distance without a handheld radio, and without a portable GPS. These things are very cheap, and they are very cheap insurance. Mickey -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:33 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Another bad story --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:07 AM 11/5/2004 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > >I just posted the following to the AOPA "Never Again Online" forum. >You can read the original article at: > >http://www.aopa.org/pilot/never_again/2004/na0411.html > >-------- >Here we have another scary story in the "Never Again >Online" column. This one from a man who suffers from a >failure of the charging system, recognizes the fact, and >then does just about everything wrong, surviving by, >"The Lord must have heard my wife's prayer because I >know I was not a good enough pilot to have come through >all this without a scratch." Oh please Mr. Stone. What >a load of road apples. > >This "Never Again" has *nothing* to do with a failure of >the charging system at night and everything to do with a >pilot who exhibits not even the slightest familiarity >with his airplane and poor decision-making skills to >boot. > >Mr. Stone, you took a simple minor system failure and >through poor decision-making and failure to understand >the basic functions of your airplane turned it into >something much worse, at least in your mind. Even so >the whole thing should have been handled easily. > >Maybe this event will prompt you to get some training >and practice with your airplane before you become a >statistic and affect my insurance rates, not to mention >causing the FAA to issue yet another unnecessary ruling >to protect us from ourselves. > >And if I were your wife I would have slapped you silly. > >Brian Lloyd Dead on accurate analysis sir. We've often heard the adage that a pilot's license is a "license to learn" but all too often, learning seems to slow down or even cease. The FAA is fond of developing new requirements for new production but allowing older airplanes to "grandfather" along in their originally certified condition. For the most part, I agree with this philosophy but with one exception. If I were made "Emperor for a day" of the FAA, I'd write a requirement for low voltage warning, periodic cap tests of batteries -OR- yearly replacement, and and dual feed e-bus installation for all aircraft that are used for night-cross-country whether VFR or IFR. It's probably the simplest change we could make to any certified ship and would make the vast majority of electrical system dark-stormy-night stories go away. Bob . . . >--------- > > >Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza >brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201 >+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 > >There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good >citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. > > Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------------- < Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition > < of man. Advances which permit this norm to be > < exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the > < work of an extremely small minority, frequently > < despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed > < by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny > < minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes > < happens) is driven out of a society, the people > < then slip back into abject poverty. > < > < This is known as "bad luck". > < -Lazarus Long- > <------------------------------------------------------> http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:33 AM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hangar Radios --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jerb AM, were dating our self here! Our kids listen to FM and their kids are into the pay satellite stuff. jerb At 12:48 PM 11/3/04 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com > >Folks, this is extremely obliquely building-oriented, but I know the answer >is here so here goes... > >My new hangar faces away from almost all AM & FM stations I like to listen to >on my cheap ghetto-blaster. I can get the FM by poking the antenna out the >door, but the AM is, as described here often, very much line-of-sight. I >"think" the AM antenna is not connected to the external telescoping >antenna, as it >makes no difference in being in/out/extended/pointed anywhere in particular. >Any suggestions short of getting a different hangar? GOTTA have my AM! > >Thanks and do not archive >Mark > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:48 AM PST US From: "Maureen & Bob Christensen" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: 35amp PM alternator --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Maureen & Bob Christensen" This is a fairly old thread (but I remember your comments) . . . but I'm planning my breaker / switches and "rough wiring" for my RV-8. Without Avionics I'm figuring the following night IFR load on approach? Heated Pitot 10A Landing Lights 8A Nav Lights 8A Strobes 8A Panel / Inst Lts 2A Gyros 2A Total 38A I may be a little high but should be close?? What am I doing wrong? Thanks, Bob Christensen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 35amp PM alternator > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > At 09:35 AM 8/31/2004 -0500, you wrote: > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" > > > > > >Ken, I reviewed my info sheet on Deere alternators. There is a 35 amp that > >is light weight, which I consider usable. There is also a 40/50 that is > >much heavier. I knew there was one of them that I had conflicting info on - > >was the 40/50, not a "35/40". > > > >As noted, one could use 2 of the 20 amp alterntors to have a 40 amp > >capacity. Would be appealing if had a pulley at each end of engine so each > >alternator had its own belt - true redundancy and separation in case 1 belt > >broke it wouldn't take out the other. I don't plan on trying this. > > > >That 35amp "limit" is the reason I am interested the "Simplification" > >architecture - eliminating the 1amp current draw of a "battery contactor" > >(or 2) - and am interested in using LED lights to the max instead of > >incandescant bulbs - to keep night IFR load below 35 amps. > > > >David > > I'd like to see your final load analysis. The largest full-up > IFR load I've run to date on a 14v system is 27A. > > Bob . . . > > > --- > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:19 AM PST US From: "Scott Aldrich" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Aldrich" I am not sure if it has two inputs. I was assuming it only had one based on the post by Mark (Fiveonepw) who said his EIS4000 is only on the right mag. I could have misunderstood his post. I will check with GRT. Thanks, Scott -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd On Nov 5, 2004, at 12:49 PM, Scott Aldrich wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Aldrich" > > > I wasn't really following this so I apologize if this is already > answered in > this discussion. > > I was planning on the Grand Rapids EIS for my M14P. To be able see > the RPM > on each mag I will need a switch to select which mag runs the tach., > or at > least that is the simplest solution?? I haven't looked closely at the GR engine monitor but doesn't it have two mag inputs to avoid the problem? Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:07 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Another bad story --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd On Nov 5, 2004, at 1:22 PM, Mickey Coggins wrote: > What I can't quite figure out is why anyone would > fly any distance without a handheld radio, and > without a portable GPS. These things are very > cheap, and they are very cheap insurance. And if you are on this list, why would you have an airplane that could experience a total electrical system failure? Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:38 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hangar Radios --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd On Nov 5, 2004, at 1:54 PM, jerb wrote: > AM, were dating our self here! It has its place. > Our kids listen to FM and their kids are into the pay satellite stuff. I listen to the BBC on my SSB HF receiver to get the news. They beat the snot out of the US news services for international balance. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:07 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Another bad story --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd On Nov 5, 2004, at 1:51 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > Dead on accurate analysis sir. Thank you Bob. > We've often > heard the adage that a pilot's license is a "license > to learn" but all too often, learning seems to slow > down or even cease. > > The FAA is fond of developing new requirements for new > production but allowing older airplanes to "grandfather" > along in their originally certified condition. For the > most part, I agree with this philosophy but with one > exception. If I were made "Emperor for a day" of the FAA, > I'd write a requirement for low voltage warning, periodic > cap tests of batteries -OR- yearly replacement, and > and dual feed e-bus installation for all aircraft that > are used for night-cross-country whether VFR or IFR. > > It's probably the simplest change we could make to > any certified ship and would make the vast majority > of electrical system dark-stormy-night stories go away. I did in my Comanche. My "fix" is 20 years old now and my e-buss is called the "Avionics buss". It was easy when we did the new panel back in 1984. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:15:49 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd On Nov 5, 2004, at 2:36 PM, Scott Aldrich wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Aldrich" > > > I am not sure if it has two inputs. I was assuming it only had one > based on > the post by Mark (Fiveonepw) who said his EIS4000 is only on the right > mag. > I could have misunderstood his post. And I certainly *don't* know. Do *not* take my word as gospel on this. > I will check with GRT. That is the correct answer. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:05 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Another bad story --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins >And if you are on this list, why would you have an airplane that could >experience a total electrical system failure? Because my RV8 is not yet finished, and my flying club won't let me work on our Pipers. -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:14:03 PM PST US From: KITFOXZ@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hangar Radios --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com In a message dated 11/5/2004 1:42:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, brianl@lloyd.com writes: I listen to the BBC on my SSB HF receiver to get the news. They beat the snot out of the US news services for international balance. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 I agree with you Brian on the BBC. Trouble is, it takes me about 30 minutes of listening to tune my mind in and begin to understand the King's English! John P. Marzluf Columbus, Ohio Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage) ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:50:11 PM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Short antenna cable for back of radio --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins OK, no one has any idea where I can buy a little "patch cable" like the one listed below? I guess I could make one, but when I was running a big IP network, I had a rule that none of my guys were allowed to make cables. Too unreliable. Not sure I want to break this rule with my radio antenna. Thanks, Mickey >I'm looking for a short antenna cable like the one shown >on this web page. > > http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20041104202747822 > >Does anyone know where I can purchase this? -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:41 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hangar Radios --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" You can get a cheap, digitally tuned portable radio and extended the DC power and headphone audio leads from outside to inside via a hunk of 4-wire telephone cable. Wrapped the radio up in two layers of zip-lock plastic bag along with a packet of silica-gel. Install it under a plastic bucket to shield from direct effects if wind and sunlight. At the other end, attached a wall-wart power supply and a set of amplified computer speakers. This keeps all your wiring close to the building and relatively immune from lighting strike issues. Signal strength to the radio is very good and should offer excellent quality audio. Leave it turned on 24/7 and just turn down the volume when you're not listening to it. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:44 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Another bad story --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 08:07 AM 11/5/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Oh please Mr. Stone. What >a load of road apples... > >Brian Lloyd >--------- You know, Brian. You really owe it to the story's author to tell them how you really feel. ;) Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:47 PM PST US From: Mark Steitle Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Short antenna cable for back of radio --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Steitle Mickey, Since nobody else replied, here's my suggestion. Check with Garmin, or ICOM. My GTX-327 transponder uses a similar plug that comes in either straight, or 90 degree. It is listed in the parts list at the back. I could get you a p/n, but I would think that any avionics shop should be able to get one for you. Mark S. At 09:47 PM 11/5/2004 +0100, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > >OK, no one has any idea where I can buy a little "patch cable" >like the one listed below? I guess I could make one, but >when I was running a big IP network, I had a rule that none >of my guys were allowed to make cables. Too unreliable. >Not sure I want to break this rule with my radio antenna. > >Thanks, >Mickey > > > >I'm looking for a short antenna cable like the one shown > >on this web page. > > > > http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20041104202747822 > > > >Does anyone know where I can purchase this? > >-- >Mickey Coggins >http://www.rv8.ch/ >#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:02 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 11/5/04 9:34:49 AM Central Standard Time, brianl@lloyd.com writes: > If any of these things change it > is grounds to wonder what has changed in the engine even if everything > is still within "normal" specs. >>>> Seems I'll be paying closer attention in the future........ Thanks! Mark do not achive ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:44 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Driving electronic rpm meter from both magnetos --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 11/5/04 12:38:04 PM Central Standard Time, sa@mwutah.com writes: > I am not sure if it has two inputs. I was assuming it only had one based > on > the post by Mark (Fiveonepw) who said his EIS4000 is only on the right mag. > I could have misunderstood his post. >>> My 2002 vintage EIS4000 has only one, which would require a switch and resistor for both p-leads- my unit came with the required resistor for one mag... Mark Phillips ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:03 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hangar Radios --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 11/5/04 2:14:30 PM Central Standard Time, KITFOXZ@aol.com writes: > I agree with you Brian on the BBC. Trouble is, it takes me about 30 > minutes > of listening to tune my mind in and begin to understand the King's English! > > >>> Hi John! And I agree with both of you- in our area BBC is avialable via NPR on AM along with a virtual dearth of mind-numbing advertising- hence my interest.... And thanks Brian for the antenna suggestions! Mark do not archive ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:18 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hangar Radios --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 11/5/04 3:00:47 PM Central Standard Time, b.nuckolls@cox.net writes: > Install it under a plastic > bucket to shield from direct effects if wind and sunlight. > >>>> Ok, neat idea- but what do I tell the airport authority the weird new appendage to the roof of their new hangar is? 8) I actually did consider this using a Sony Walkman beltclip radio (amazing reception!) but ran into the "changing the battery" problem- this sounds like a workable solution! (provided Brians antenna loop falls short- I'm trying that first- lots easier to change channels!) Mark - do not archive ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:21:39 PM PST US From: Walter Tondu Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Short antenna cable for back of radio --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Tondu On 11/05 9:47, Mickey Coggins wrote: > OK, no one has any idea where I can buy a little "patch cable" > like the one listed below? I guess I could make one, but > when I was running a big IP network, I had a rule that none > of my guys were allowed to make cables. Too unreliable. > Not sure I want to break this rule with my radio antenna. > > Thanks, > Mickey Making antennas is the absolute easiest thing I've ever done. No satisfaction like doing the work yourself. -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:03 PM PST US From: "Jim Stone" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: 35amp PM alternator --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" --- > Total 38A > I may be a little high but should be close?? What am I doing wrong? Does your "Panel/Inst Lts" include the Nav/Coms, Xponder, and Marker annunciators, or is it just lights? Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:13 PM PST US From: "Maureen & Bob Christensen" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: 35amp PM alternator --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Maureen & Bob Christensen" No the Avionics are probably another 10A peak? The panel / Inst Lts is just a guess . . . I'm not that far yet. Thanks, Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Stone" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: 35amp PM alternator > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" > > > --- > > > Total 38A > > I may be a little high but should be close?? What am I doing wrong? > > Does your "Panel/Inst Lts" include the Nav/Coms, Xponder, and Marker > annunciators, or is it just lights? > > Do Not Archive > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:03 PM PST US From: GMC Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: 35amp PM alternator --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: GMC -----Original Message----- --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Maureen & Bob Christensen" This is a fairly old thread (but I remember your comments) . . . but I'm planning my breaker / switches and "rough wiring" for my RV-8. Without Avionics I'm figuring the following night IFR load on approach? Heated Pitot 10A Landing Lights 8A Nav Lights 8A Strobes 8A Panel / Inst Lts 2A Gyros 2A Total 38A I may be a little high but should be close?? What am I doing wrong? Thanks, Bob Christensen Hi Bob Maybe we do things different here in the Great White North but the heated pitot and landing lights are considered as "intermittent" loads (at least on my load analyses) which may exceed the normal continuous rating. The pitot heat would only need to be on if you anticipated icing and the landing light for a very short time before touchdown! George in Langley B.C.