Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:51 AM - List Fund Raiser - What Listers Are Saying... (Matt Dralle)
2. 07:09 AM - Re: Re:Another bad story (Brian Lloyd)
3. 07:09 AM - Dual ignition selection (Larry McFarland)
4. 08:15 AM - ARC/TKM MX300 pinouts needed (erie)
5. 10:36 AM - Re: Dual ignition selection (Ken)
6. 10:38 AM - Stall Horn (czechsix@juno.com)
7. 11:35 AM - Re: Stall Horn (Matt Prather)
8. 01:57 PM - Re: Stall Horn (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
9. 03:09 PM - Re: Re:Another bad story (HAL KEMPTHORNE)
10. 03:24 PM - Ammeter/Loadmeter (PeterHunt1@aol.com)
11. 03:56 PM - Re: Ammeter/Loadmeter (Matt Prather)
12. 04:58 PM - Re: Ammeter/Loadmeter (earl_schroeder@juno.com)
13. 06:11 PM - GRT EFIS/Engine Monitor/Moving Map yahoo list (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
14. 06:51 PM - ELT Access ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | List Fund Raiser - What Listers Are Saying... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
First, I'd like say *thank you* to everyone that has already made a
Contribution to this year's List Fund Raiser! Thank you! If you haven't
made your Contribution, won't you show your support for these valuable
services today? Since there's no advertising or other forms of direct
commercialism on the forums to support the Lists, its solely YOUR
GENEROSITY that keeps them running!!
Members have been including some very nice comments along with their
Contributions this year. Please take a minute to read over some of the
thoughts your fellow Listers have expressed regarding the Lists and what
they mean to them. What do the Lists mean to you...?
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
The amount of information and simple entertainment I derive from the lists
you administer is enormous.
-Chris R.
The [List] digest is the one message in my inbox that I look forward to
reading every day.
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Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RE:Another bad story |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Nov 7, 2004, at 12:29 PM, Johnny Johnson wrote:
I am probably beating the dead horse but since I started this, I feel I
should reply.
> Sure, the whole incident could have been avoided... the guy said so.
> Sure
> it was stupid... the guy said so. He thinks prayer helps... so do I...
Preparation beats prayer all hollow. One needs to learn and prepare to
deal with the daily mundane problems and leave to God those times when
the fates conspire to kill you regardless of having done all the right
stuff.
Or another way of looking at it, I *KNOW* that *I* will be in the
cockpit. God might not be my copilot that day.
> if
> you don't, that's your right but please leave it at that. So...
> where's the
> beef?
The beef is simple. When you decide to become a pilot you take
responsibility for the safe operation of your airplane to avoid harm to
yourself and others. More than any other endeavor flying requires you
to make the right decisions. There is no one else there to help you
and no one else to blame. The gentleman's problems were basic and
avoidable, problems that, if I thought one of my students couldn't
handle, I would not let him or her fly in the pattern, let alone go on
a solo cross country. They were all something that I am fairly certain
that he was taught how to deal with when learning to fly. He avoided
common sense.
And, lastly, his stupidity will eventually affect the rest of us by
becoming an accident statistic. That will prompt the insurance
companies to affect us all in the pocket book or, worst case, it will
give the FAA non-flying bureaucrats another nail for the general
aviation coffin.
That, in a nutshell, is my beef.
> C'mon people, all that this drivel accomplishes is to discourage the
> next
> guy from contributing something that may be very helpful. Who among us
> wants to take this sort of balderdash for making a
> confession/comment/whatever that is offered with the sole intention of
> being
> helpful?
What he said wasn't helpful. He didn't offer any sort of mechanism for
recovery. He did not identify a problem for others to avoid besides,
"do what you were taught, believe your instruments, and don't be
stupid." Well, boy howdy, how helpful was that?
> Before starting or perpetuating a negative thread like this,
> please ask yourself what it will accomplish.
Hopefully it will accomplish to scare someone like that from flying
again until they can come up to speed learning to handle their
airplane. It wasn't a mistake, it wasn't a surprise, it wasn't a
combination of things that demonstrated a chain of events that would
lead to an unusual result; it was just plain old stupidity. Sometimes
you have to give someone a dope-slap on the side of the head to get
their attention.
> Flame away... I'm too old to give a rip :=))
Too bad. We need more people who give a rip.
> Please don't clobber the list
> with fire, let's let this thread die... shoot direct at me:
> Johnny@wiktel.com
Well, you made the point in a public forum and the public forum is
where you talk it out. Unfortunately you don't get to have the last
word that way. ;-)
> Johnny Johnson
> Been flying since '62...
> Done lotza stupid things...
> And... God has been there lotza times
> Else... why am I still here?
Perhaps you are here because, ultimately, you made the right decisions
when they were needed.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Dual ignition selection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Hi Guys,
After putting together the dual-ignition distributor and still having the flywheel
ignition on board, I pause to wonder. Is it safer to use the distributor
for both ignitions or is it better to use one pickup from the distributor and
the other from the external electronic flywheel ignition? Do failures occur at
the distributor cap or rotor that would push this decision this way or the other?
The only ignition failure I've had was the tach pickup on the external and that's
been no trouble since replacing it.
I'd be interested in opinions on the matter as it's a case for deciding which of
two sets of wires to use regularly.
Thanks,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS - Stratus Subaru
Message 4
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| Subject: | ARC/TKM MX300 pinouts needed |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: erie <erie@shelbyvilledesign.com>
Trying to help a homebuilder I sold an MX300 to, does anybody have the
pinouts for it?
erie
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Dual ignition selection |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on juliet.albedo.net
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
The less parts in common, the less the chance of one failure taking out
both systems. For instance could it possibly happen that the screws
holding one distributor pickup come loose and both distributor pickups
are damaged?
Ken
Larry McFarland wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
>Hi Guys,
>
>After putting together the dual-ignition distributor and still having the flywheel
ignition on board, I pause to wonder. Is it safer to use the distributor
for both ignitions or is it better to use one pickup from the distributor and
the other from the external electronic flywheel ignition? Do failures occur
at the distributor cap or rotor that would push this decision this way or the
other?
>
>
>The only ignition failure I've had was the tach pickup on the external and that's
been no trouble since replacing it.
>
>
>I'd be interested in opinions on the matter as it's a case for deciding which
of two sets of wires to use regularly.
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>Larry McFarland - 601HDS - Stratus Subaru
>
>
>
Message 6
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "czechsix@juno.com" <czechsix@juno.com>
Guys,
Does anyone know of a source for a cheap stall warning horn similar in sound to
what's used on spam cans? I made my own spam-style stall vane/tab that I'm putting
in the LE of the wing. I bought a piezo alarm from Digikey for something
like $1 but it sounds like a fire alarm....it's a bit more shrill and shocking
than I want. Aircraft Spruce sells a Safe Flight stall horn with light for
$740.00. You read that right...$740! That doesn't include the vane. So anyway,
if somebody knows of a non-aircraft source for such a beastie please let
me know...
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D wiring...
Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com!
Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.
Message 7
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
How about a Cessna/Piper/Beech junkyard?
I bought a 12V buzzer at Walmart that sounds a lot like a stall horn.
How about an auto wrecking yard? My Jeep seatbelt buzzer also
sounds like a stall horn.
Regards,
Matt-
VE N34RD, C150 N714BK
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "czechsix@juno.com"
> <czechsix@juno.com>
>
>
> Guys,
>
> Does anyone know of a source for a cheap stall warning horn similar in
> sound to what's used on spam cans? I made my own spam-style stall
> vane/tab that I'm putting in the LE of the wing. I bought a piezo alarm
> from Digikey for something like $1 but it sounds like a fire
> alarm....it's a bit more shrill and shocking than I want. Aircraft
> Spruce sells a Safe Flight stall horn with light for $740.00. You read
> that right...$740! That doesn't include the vane. So anyway, if
> somebody knows of a non-aircraft source for such a beastie please let me
> know...
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A N2D wiring...
>
> Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com!
> Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.
>
>
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 11/8/04 1:36:02 PM Central Standard Time,
mprather@spro.net writes:
> My Jeep seatbelt buzzer also
> sounds like a stall horn.
>>>>>>>
When it goes off, do ya shove the wheel forward?
(ooops- sorrrrryyy- do not archive!)
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RE:Another bad story |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: HAL KEMPTHORNE <hal_kempthorne@sbcglobal.net>
Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com> wrote:
What he said wasn't helpful. He didn't offer any sort of mechanism for
recovery. He did not identify a problem for others to avoid besides,
"do what you were taught, believe your instruments, and don't be
stupid." Well, boy howdy, how helpful was that?
Helpful to some, Brian. I've never believed that imaginary friends would help
me but I have had some similar beliefs that could have gotten me trouble. For
example I have found myself believing that a machine would somehow "get better"
or maybe even "heal up". It works for my body so why not for my machine?
Well, it doesn't, usually. I suspect that such silly beliefs have been a factor
in aircraft accidents.
Maybe even more common is a belief in 'Lady Luck' or just simply luck. I was approaching
San Jose International at night many years ago with very low fuel.
I had used one tank down to where I figured I had a little left and was flying
on the fuller tank. Well before I got over the city it occured to me that if
this tank runs out, I might not have enough left in the other to go anywhere.
But I crossed my fingers and got in alright.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Ammeter/Loadmeter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PeterHunt1@aol.com
Bob:
What do you mean when you say "The only limitation on the entire field of
instrumentation choices is that none of the Z-Figures is friendly to use of the
classic minus-0-plus battery ammeter"? I am wiring to Figure Z-10 and where
you call for a loadmeter I have installed Van's "classic" -40/0/+40 ammeter.
Should I change something? I haven't lit the engine yet.
Pete Hunt
RV-6, finishing wiring
Clearwater, FL
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Ammeter/Loadmeter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
My appendix doesn't have a Figure Z-10... Where in the circuit does
Z-10 have the loadmeter shunt located? Is it between the battery and the
rest of the system (doubt that). Bob likes the architecture where the
alternator B lead (power output) is wired to a shunt, and then directly to
the
battery side of the starter contactor. This allows the somewhat noisy
alternator output to use the starter wire as its connection to the
battery, and
thus to have the lowest resistance path to the best noise filter in the
airplane.
A downside of this architecture is that you don't have any visibility (if
this is
the only instrumentation) of whether the battery is getting charged (or
discharged). The shunt will only give an indication of how much current
the alternator is providing. The loadmeter would only provide a negative
reading
if the alternator fails (and shorts somehow). This architecture combined
with
a bus voltmeter is perfectly adequate... If the bus voltage is good, and the
loadmeter is up, everything is okay.
Placing the shunt between the battery and the rest of the system will either
require a high amperage shunt/ammeter (to handle hundreds of amps of
cranking current), or you can just live with the ammeter peggin (hard) when
you crank the starter - plus some heat buildup in the shunt.
Regards,
Matt-
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PeterHunt1@aol.com
>
> Bob:
>
> What do you mean when you say "The only limitation on the entire field
> of instrumentation choices is that none of the Z-Figures is friendly to
> use of the classic minus-0-plus battery ammeter"? I am wiring to
> Figure Z-10 and where you call for a loadmeter I have installed Van's
> "classic" -40/0/+40 ammeter. Should I change something? I haven't lit
> the engine yet.
>
> Pete Hunt
> RV-6, finishing wiring
> Clearwater, FL
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Ammeter/Loadmeter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "earl_schroeder@juno.com" <earl_schroeder@juno.com>
I'll throw out another idea suggested by Jim Weir. I used a 0-50MV meter to indicate
current flow by connecting it to each end of wire I wished to measure by
looking at the voltage drop across the wire. I didn't care about the absolute
value but only if it was other than normal. To prevent 'slamming' the meter
during starting I installed a miniature relay in the sensing line which opens
when power is applied to the starter solenoid. By selecting an appropriate
resistor installed in parallel with the meter and a switch labeled X1 - X10 I
was able to select the most sensitive position depending on what I have turned
on. (like pitot heat or not) I have two meters: one for battery current and
the other for alternator. So far this method has worked fine for me. Earl
Message 13
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aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
| Subject: | GRT EFIS/Engine Monitor/Moving Map yahoo list |
0.50 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary
0.01 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
FYI for those interested in some common space to share and learn info about the
Grand Rapids Tech EFIS, Graphic Engine Monitoring and Moving Map Display system.
http://www.grtavionics.com/
* Your group information:
Group name: GRT_EFIS
Group home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GRT_EFIS
Group email address: http://mailcenter2.comcast.net/wmc/v/wm/41901FE5000DB8410000389A2200748184970C0E0397050C9A04?cmd=ComposeTo&adr=GRT%5FEFIS%40yahoogroups%2Ecom&sid=c0
FYI for those interested in some common space to share and learn info about the
Grand Rapids Tech EFIS, Graphic Engine Monitoring and Moving Map Display system.
<A title=http://www.grtavionics.com/ >http://www.grtavionics.com/
* Your group information:
Group name: GRT_EFIS
Group home page: <A title=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GRT_EFIS >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GRT_EFIS
Group email address: <A title=http://mailcenter2.comcast.net/wmc/v/wm/41901FE5000DB8410000389A2200748184970C0E0397050C9A04?cmd=ComposeToadr=GRT_EFIS@yahoogroups.comsid=c0 onclick="return doCompose(this);" ">http://mailcenter2.comcast.net/wmc/v/wm/41901FE5000DB8410000389A2200748184970C0E0397050C9A04?cmd=ComposeToadr=GRT%5FEFIS%40yahoogroups%2Ecomsid=c0
Message 14
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
11/08/2004
Hello Bob Nuckolls and Other Electricals, I am trying to nail down the regulatory
requirement for pilot access to and control of ELTs from the cockpit while
airborne. The ELT TSO-C91a does not contain the requirement itself, but I have
been told that the requirement can be found in one of these two RTCA documents
which are referenced by the TSO.
DO-183, Minimum Operational Performance Standards for Emergency Locator Transmitters-Automatic
Fixed-ELT (AF), Automatic Portable-ELT (AP), Automatic Deployable-ELT
(AD), Survival-ELT (S) Operating on 121.5 and 243.0 Megahertz
DO-182, Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) Equipment Installation and Performance
Unfortunately these two documents from the RTCA cost money.
Would anyone have access to these documents and be willing to help me locate the
specific access requirement (if it exists)? Many thanks.
OC
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