Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:44 AM - Electrical system design (Mickey Coggins)
2. 04:11 AM - Re: Electrical system design (LarryRobertHelming)
3. 04:40 AM - Re: Electrical system design (Mickey Coggins)
4. 07:00 AM - Re: Electrical system design (Ken)
5. 08:54 AM - Re: Electrical system design (glaesers)
6. 08:55 AM - Re: Re: Always-on (Chuck Jensen)
7. 09:36 AM - Headset Whine (Chuck Jensen)
8. 10:00 AM - Re: Electrical system design (Mickey Coggins)
9. 10:04 AM - Re: Electrical system design (Richard E. Tasker)
10. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: Electrical system design (Mickey Coggins)
11. 10:34 AM - Re: Electrical system design (Mickey Coggins)
12. 02:05 PM - Re: Electrical system design (Ken)
13. 02:19 PM - Re: CO monitor w/relay capability (Dan Checkoway)
14. 02:34 PM - which current to monitor in flight? (luckymaCY@comcast.net (lucky))
15. 02:36 PM - Re: CO monitor w/relay capability (luckymaCY@comcast.net (lucky))
16. 03:14 PM - Re: Electrical system design (glaesers)
17. 04:20 PM - PowerSchottky (Eric M. Jones)
18. 06:23 PM - Re: Electrical system design (Richard E. Tasker)
19. 07:22 PM - Re: Electrical system design (glaesers)
20. 08:18 PM - REMOVE (Wendy Trahan)
21. 09:26 PM - Re: REMOVE (Matt Prather)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Electrical system design |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi Listers,
If the weather is bad today, or you are looking for a chance
to toss some darts, I'd love to get your feedback on my
electrical system design. I'm sure there are some things
that should be done differently, so if you have any ideas,
I would be most appreciative.
I'm going to be running an auto conversion, so I *really*
need to keep the electrons flowing. My goal is to have it
be as good as it can be.
Here is a little article with some explanation, and a
wiring diagram. If you click on the image it gets bigger.
http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20041121101637759
Many thanks in advance for your time.
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical system design |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
My advice: 1. Read the Aeroelectric-list each day. 2. Buy and read Bob
Nuckoll's book. 3. Read it again. 4. Any questions you have, first search
the archives. And 5. Ask any questions you have by posting on the list.
Electrons are the same if you run an AV engine or an Auto. Same ultimate
purpose and goal. The only problem you may buck up against that is
different is if your auto conversion group wants you to use some already
rolled system for the electronics. You can go either way.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty;
in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts;
in flying a virgin plane never flown before.
- Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electrical system design
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
<mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> If the weather is bad today, or you are looking for a chance
> to toss some darts, I'd love to get your feedback on my
> electrical system design. I'm sure there are some things
> that should be done differently, so if you have any ideas,
> I would be most appreciative.
>
> I'm going to be running an auto conversion, so I *really*
> need to keep the electrons flowing. My goal is to have it
> be as good as it can be.
>
> Here is a little article with some explanation, and a
> wiring diagram. If you click on the image it gets bigger.
>
> http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20041121101637759
>
> Many thanks in advance for your time.
>
> Mickey
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical system design |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi Larry,
Excellent advice, and advice I've been following for the past year or so.
I've been cultivating my knowledge of electrical systems via
the book and the list, and as most of you know, I've been asking
questions here for months. The drawing below is my first harvest,
and any feedback is most appreciated.
Thanks,
Mickey
>My advice: 1. Read the Aeroelectric-list each day. 2. Buy and read Bob
>Nuckoll's book. 3. Read it again. 4. Any questions you have, first search
>the archives. And 5. Ask any questions you have by posting on the list.
>
>Electrons are the same if you run an AV engine or an Auto. Same ultimate
>purpose and goal. The only problem you may buck up against that is
>different is if your auto conversion group wants you to use some already
>rolled system for the electronics. You can go either way.
>
>
>>
>> If the weather is bad today, or you are looking for a chance
>> to toss some darts, I'd love to get your feedback on my
>> electrical system design. I'm sure there are some things
>> that should be done differently, so if you have any ideas,
>> I would be most appreciative.
>>
>> I'm going to be running an auto conversion, so I *really*
>> need to keep the electrons flowing. My goal is to have it
>> be as good as it can be.
>>
>> Here is a little article with some explanation, and a
>> wiring diagram. If you click on the image it gets bigger.
>>
>> http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20041121101637759
>>
>> Many thanks in advance for your time.
>>
>> Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical system design |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on juliet.albedo.net
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Hi Micky
FWIW it seems odd that you'd have an unfused wire going anywhere such as
to the OVP. The lower right diagram also shows an unfused line to the
keep alive supply.
The switch on the line feeding the alternator F terminal might be kind
of redundant but I'm not familiar with the OVP that you are using.
Your use of the battery contactors is somewhat similar to what I did and
when I did it I took a good look at the car wiring and thought that the
starter switch might need a 15 amp circuit instead of 10 amp... 10 amps
and 18 awg is a bit light compared to the 14awg used on the car.
There has been discussion on this but until I see something more
definate on the risks of disconnecting a battery from a running
alternator I'd recommend a guard or lever lock on any switch that is
able to do that. You are probably planning something like that anyway on
the battery switches. On my design using Bob's OVP, it's the alternator
switch so I just put a U shaped guard around it. With your design the
risk is to the alternator not the ecm from what I can see so it seems
like a reasonable architecture to me.
Interesting approach to feed the ecm with diodes... I'm only familiar
with the 1990 to 94 DIS ignitions but you might want/need another
supply line for the ignition coil(s) to avoid high current pulses and
voltage drops through the diodes. The ecm power relay does not feed the
coils on the older engines.
Ken
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>Hi Listers,
>
>If the weather is bad today, or you are looking for a chance
>to toss some darts, I'd love to get your feedback on my
>electrical system design. I'm sure there are some things
>that should be done differently, so if you have any ideas,
>I would be most appreciative.
>
>I'm going to be running an auto conversion, so I *really*
>need to keep the electrons flowing. My goal is to have it
>be as good as it can be.
>
>Here is a little article with some explanation, and a
>wiring diagram. If you click on the image it gets bigger.
>
> http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20041121101637759
>
>Many thanks in advance for your time.
>
>Mickey
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical system design |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "glaesers" <glaesers@wideopenwest.com>
Mickey,
I have some minor questions about your design (I'm looking to learn, not
criticize). Your architecture is exactly the same as what I plan to do
(http://www.wideopenwest.com/~glaesers/RV7-Electrical-Architecture.html) -
in an RV-7A to be started next year. (I plan to update my diagram to use
the Perihelion OVP also)
You show a separate Alternator switch, vs. the Nuckolls recommended 3
position Master switch. Any particular reason?
On the Subaru Yahoo list, a few weeks ago, some folks were talking about an
OVP circuit from an alternator reman company (don't remember the name) which
disabled the alternator by opening the Field circuit. I asked about that -
since apparently a number of internally regulated alternators don't quit by
doing that - but they said it does! If that is in fact the case, would it
be "better" to put the OVP solenoid on the field circuit line to avoid the
"load dump" phenomenon ?? Although since others (see below) are doing the
way you (and I) show it, apparently the alternator Jan supplies does not
have this problem (again ???).
I'm also curious about the starter circuit. What does the wire coming from
the starter button connect to? I was under the impression that energizing
the connection with the 'triangle with a hat' would start the starter and
the built-in solenoid was to engage the starter gear with the flywheel. My
design shows the starter button energizing a starter solenoid - as per many
of BN's diagrams.
The good news is that Bill Yamokoski and Don Russell (and maybe others ???)
have essentially, if not exactly, the same architecture in their Eggenfeller
Subaru powered Glastars which have been flying for a number of years.
On another, but sort of related, subject: I noticed that you have separate
defrost and heater fans. Are you using the heater available through Jan, or
something else? I've been looking for other (cheaper) solutions and found:
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=137942&prmenbr
=361.
Keep up the good work! I'm jealous you're building and I'm still just
planning.
Dennis Glaeser
Message 6
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Chuck Jensen <cjensen@dts9000.com>
I recently had my panel reworked, including all navs, comms, backlighting,
etc. The ANR headsets are dead quiet until I turn on the strobe, nav lights
or landing lights. Then I get a soft, high-pitched whine in the headsets.
Turn the strobe and other lights off, and it goes away. Searching the
archives Brian Denk had a similar problem and installed a Radio Shack
270-030A choke kit, which seemed to solve the problem. Is this still a valid
solution or are there gremlins I should sort out before putting a band aid
on it?
As a side note, when the UMA bezel lights are on, if I put my hand near/on
the associated instruments, a noticeable 'buzz' starts in the headset. Take
the hand away, and it diminishes to <audible. The proximity of my hand to
the instrument face is the volume control. I assume this has something to
do with capacitance coupling (or some such EE mumble-jumble). This issue
seems unrelated to the other and is not a chronic annoyance, though I'd
certainly be willing to solve both problems if ideas pour forth.
Chuck
Message 7
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Chuck Jensen <cjensen@dts9000.com>
Resubmitted with appropriate subject.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chuck
Jensen
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Always-on
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Chuck Jensen <cjensen@dts9000.com>
I recently had my panel reworked, including all navs, comms, backlighting,
etc. The ANR headsets are dead quiet until I turn on the strobe, nav lights
or landing lights. Then I get a soft, high-pitched whine in the headsets.
Turn the strobe and other lights off, and it goes away. Searching the
archives Brian Denk had a similar problem and installed a Radio Shack
270-030A choke kit, which seemed to solve the problem. Is this still a valid
solution or are there gremlins I should sort out before putting a band aid
on it?
As a side note, when the UMA bezel lights are on, if I put my hand near/on
the associated instruments, a noticeable 'buzz' starts in the headset. Take
the hand away, and it diminishes to <audible. The proximity of my hand to
the instrument face is the volume control. I assume this has something to
do with capacitance coupling (or some such EE mumble-jumble). This issue
seems unrelated to the other and is not a chronic annoyance, though I'd
certainly be willing to solve both problems if ideas pour forth.
Chuck
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical system design |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi Ken,
Thanks for your comments.
>FWIW it seems odd that you'd have an unfused wire going anywhere such as
>to the OVP. The lower right diagram also shows an unfused line to the
>keep alive supply.
Good catch - fixed.
>The switch on the line feeding the alternator F terminal might be kind
>of redundant but I'm not familiar with the OVP that you are using.
This switch is to turn on the alternator, and should not affect or
be affected by the OVP module. I'm not 100% sure this is the right
way to do this, because the Z diagrams use B&C LR-3, and I'm not
sure what it does with this circuit. I'm guessing it applies 12v.
>Your use of the battery contactors is somewhat similar to what I did and
>when I did it I took a good look at the car wiring and thought that the
>starter switch might need a 15 amp circuit instead of 10 amp... 10 amps
>and 18 awg is a bit light compared to the 14awg used on the car.
Good to know - I'll check this out. The guy supplying the engine
said that 10 should be enough, but I'll confirm.
>There has been discussion on this but until I see something more
>definate on the risks of disconnecting a battery from a running
>alternator I'd recommend a guard or lever lock on any switch that is
>able to do that. You are probably planning something like that anyway on
>the battery switches. On my design using Bob's OVP, it's the alternator
>switch so I just put a U shaped guard around it. With your design the
>risk is to the alternator not the ecm from what I can see so it seems
>like a reasonable architecture to me.
Yes, I am looking for some switch guards for the battery contactors.
The only ones I have found so far hold the switch in the "off" position.
>Interesting approach to feed the ecm with diodes... I'm only familiar
>with the 1990 to 94 DIS ignitions but you might want/need another
>supply line for the ignition coil(s) to avoid high current pulses and
>voltage drops through the diodes. The ecm power relay does not feed the
>coils on the older engines.
I have to say I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. The
diodes are there only so that I can have two independent power circuits
going to the ECM. It would be great if the ECM accepted two 12v inputs
and managed this itself, but it doesn't. The diodes are this type:
http://www.periheliondesign.com/powerschottkydiodes.htm and only lose
0.18volts at 10 amps. Should be ok, I think. I don't know if it is
possible to provide power to the ignition coils another way.
Thanks again for your comments!
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical system design |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
Comments and constructive criticism:
1. Unless you have more connection points on the starter for the Egg
engine than I do, the starter button connects to the little "<" on the
schematic. As you have it shown the starter will be always on. That
symbol is the connection for the circuit that energizes the starter -
regardless whether it has an internal solenoid or not.
2. I would be careful how you physically wire your aux and main battery
buses. You have no way to disconnect them from their respective
batteries and have no fuses between them and the batteries.
3. You are using the OVP to automatically disconnect the alternator from
the main bus, but you are counting on your intervention to disconnect
the field lead for the alternator. This means that the alternator goes
merrily away generating whatever overvoltage it wants until you remember
to shut it off - almost assuredly destroying itself in the process. Why
not have the OVP line that controls the alternator contactor also
control the alternator field? Then if it detects an overvoltage
condition it not only disconnects the alternator from the bus but also
deenergizes the alternator field. You still run the risk that the
alternator will load dump into itself and break something, but you have
that either way.
4. I am a little unclear on the concept of using both diodes and
switches for the ECM control?? Why have both? I can see some rational,
but what was your thinking? I have taken the philosophy that I want the
ECM to run over anything else, so I have diodes from each battery bus
permanently connected to form an "engine" bus and I have redundant means
of switching that bus on and off. Essentially, I have decided that I
don't care which battery powers the ECM as long as it gets power.
5. You have almost complete selection over which battery supplies what
loads. To take it the final step you could add a switch to connect the
aux battery bus to the endurance bus. That way, either battery could
supply those circuits. As it is now you have no way to connect the
second battery to this bus if you wanted to.
6. Why is the OVP connection on the endurance bus? Generally, the only
reason you would be using the endurance bus would be if the alternator
went south, in which case you wouldn't need the OVP to be powered up.
7. I would turn the E-bus switch over so disconnected is down. That
way, when you shut everything off on the ground, the switches are all
pointing the same way. Especially so since you have no traditional
"master" switch to turn everything off.
Dick Tasker
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>Hi Listers,
>
>If the weather is bad today, or you are looking for a chance
>to toss some darts, I'd love to get your feedback on my
>electrical system design. I'm sure there are some things
>that should be done differently, so if you have any ideas,
>I would be most appreciative.
>
>I'm going to be running an auto conversion, so I *really*
>need to keep the electrons flowing. My goal is to have it
>be as good as it can be.
>
>Here is a little article with some explanation, and a
>wiring diagram. If you click on the image it gets bigger.
>
> http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20041121101637759
>
>Many thanks in advance for your time.
>
>Mickey
>
>--
>Mickey Coggins
>http://www.rv8.ch/
>#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical system design |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi Dennis,
Thanks for having a look at this. I though you might be interested!
>You show a separate Alternator switch, vs. the Nuckolls recommended 3
>position Master switch. Any particular reason?
I couldn't figure out a way to have the alternator come on
only if either the main or auxiliary battery was active. I'd
like the option to be able to turn off either battery, and
still have the alternator on. Not sure if I'll ever use
this flexibility.
>On the Subaru Yahoo list, a few weeks ago, some folks were talking about an
>OVP circuit from an alternator reman company (don't remember the name) which
>disabled the alternator by opening the Field circuit. I asked about that -
>since apparently a number of internally regulated alternators don't quit by
>doing that - but they said it does! If that is in fact the case, would it
>be "better" to put the OVP solenoid on the field circuit line to avoid the
>"load dump" phenomenon ?? Although since others (see below) are doing the
>way you (and I) show it, apparently the alternator Jan supplies does not
>have this problem (again ???).
If cutting the field circuit will disable the alternator, then that
would allow me to eliminate that big contactor. I should look into
this - I wonder if I can trust what someone says on this, or should
I test it?
>I'm also curious about the starter circuit. What does the wire coming from
>the starter button connect to? I was under the impression that energizing
>the connection with the 'triangle with a hat' would start the starter and
>the built-in solenoid was to engage the starter gear with the flywheel. My
>design shows the starter button energizing a starter solenoid - as per many
>of BN's diagrams.
I think the subaru starter has a solenoid built in. I just took
a starter icon from Bob, and used it. Perhaps I should draw this
differently to make it clearer. You're probably right that applying
current to the triangle will start the engine. Good catch.
>On another, but sort of related, subject: I noticed that you have separate
>defrost and heater fans. Are you using the heater available through Jan, or
>something else? I've been looking for other (cheaper) solutions and found:
>http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=137942&prmenbr
>=361.
I did get the heater from Jan, but I'm only planning on using the
heat exchanger and the box. The squirrel fans are way too big,
so I'll replace them with some muffin fans. After looking at
the Jegs heater, I wish I had looked a bit more!
Thanks a lot for your time on this.
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical system design |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi Dick,
Thanks a lot for your comments.
>1. Unless you have more connection points on the starter for the Egg
>engine than I do, the starter button connects to the little "<" on the
>schematic. As you have it shown the starter will be always on. That
>symbol is the connection for the circuit that energizes the starter -
>regardless whether it has an internal solenoid or not.
I don't have my starter yet, so you're right, I need to fix this.
>2. I would be careful how you physically wire your aux and main battery
>buses. You have no way to disconnect them from their respective
>batteries and have no fuses between them and the batteries.
That's a good point. Do people usually put a fuse or fuselink
on these battery bus connections? I have not seen them, but it
should be considered. These busses will be a couple of inches
from the batteries.
>3. You are using the OVP to automatically disconnect the alternator from
>the main bus, but you are counting on your intervention to disconnect
>the field lead for the alternator. This means that the alternator goes
>merrily away generating whatever overvoltage it wants until you remember
>to shut it off - almost assuredly destroying itself in the process. Why
>not have the OVP line that controls the alternator contactor also
>control the alternator field? Then if it detects an overvoltage
>condition it not only disconnects the alternator from the bus but also
>deenergizes the alternator field. You still run the risk that the
>alternator will load dump into itself and break something, but you have
>that either way.
Great idea - I'll check with Eric to find the best way to do this. It
could be that I don't even need to disconnect the B lead. That would
be the best.
>4. I am a little unclear on the concept of using both diodes and
>switches for the ECM control?? Why have both? I can see some rational,
>but what was your thinking? I have taken the philosophy that I want the
>ECM to run over anything else, so I have diodes from each battery bus
>permanently connected to form an "engine" bus and I have redundant means
>of switching that bus on and off. Essentially, I have decided that I
>don't care which battery powers the ECM as long as it gets power.
I just want to flick on both switches, and let it run. If I don't
have diodes, then the current can flow the wrong way, right? Perhaps
I have this wrong. Do you plan to have both connections active at
all times?
>5. You have almost complete selection over which battery supplies what
>loads. To take it the final step you could add a switch to connect the
>aux battery bus to the endurance bus. That way, either battery could
>supply those circuits. As it is now you have no way to connect the
>second battery to this bus if you wanted to.
That's a good idea. I'll see if I can find a simple way to do this.
My basic feeling is that if anything goes wrong, get on the ground.
To do this, I really only need the battery buses.
>6. Why is the OVP connection on the endurance bus? Generally, the only
>reason you would be using the endurance bus would be if the alternator
>went south, in which case you wouldn't need the OVP to be powered up.
I may turn off the main bus for some reason, even tho the alternator
is working. Also, this is the way Eric recommends wiring it! :-)
>7. I would turn the E-bus switch over so disconnected is down. That
>way, when you shut everything off on the ground, the switches are all
>pointing the same way. Especially so since you have no traditional
>"master" switch to turn everything off.
Yes, that's a tricky one. I want to have all my switches up when
flying, and the normal position for that switch is to have the
switch open, no connection between the battery bus and the endurance
bus. I'd rather have consistency in flight than on the ground,
but I need to think about this some more.
Thanks a lot for taking the time to look at this for me.
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical system design |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on juliet.albedo.net
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Random comments from all the replies:
I thought that the standard moveable switchguard could be mounted upside
down to guard a switch on ?
If an internal voltage regulator is fried then tuning off the +12 volts
to it may not turn off the alternator even if it did turn off the
alternator before the regulator failed.
All the subaru starters that I've seen do have an integral contactor.
They don't normally have that jumper from the battery terminal to the
push on solenoid connection on the car.
Check the weight of those copper aftermarket cabin heaters. They are a
bit heavy and despite a good look I never did find one with an aluminum
core, which I wanted both for weight and to avoid a dissimiliar metal
corrosion situation. The bare aluminum cores are available if you want
to go that route.
Other switch position philosophies include: - left/right if there is no
normal position.
- all down for shutdown
- anywhere for
normal but all up for a problem
Isn't the short wire to the fuse block considered one of those safe fat
wires that does not normally get any fuse protection. Similar to no fuse
protection at the battery for the battery cables.
good discussion
Ken
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: CO monitor w/relay capability |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Thanks to everybody who responded to this, especially Werner. After seeing
Conrad and finding Kemo -- neither of which will sell or ship to me in the
US, I finally found this (perfect for non-EEs like me):
http://www.quasarelectronics.com/4055.htm
It's cheap enough to give it a shot. After I assemble & test it, I'll
report back on whether or not it works.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | which current to monitor in flight? |
0.50 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary
0.01 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: luckymaCY@comcast.net (lucky)
I have one hall effect current sensor with my EIS. Which is most preferred measurement?
Measuring battery amps (scale centered at zero) or alternator amps.
I think it's battery but wanted a second opinion.
thx,
lucky
I have one hall effect current sensor with my EIS. Which is most preferred measurement?
Measuring battery amps (scale centered at zero) or alternator amps.
I think it's battery but wanted a second opinion.
thx,
lucky
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: CO monitor w/relay capability |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: luckymaCY@comcast.net (lucky)
hotwire it to your starter and use the breathalizer part too to make sure no drunk
can steal your plane ;-)
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
>
> Thanks to everybody who responded to this, especially Werner. After seeing
> Conrad and finding Kemo -- neither of which will sell or ship to me in the
> US, I finally found this (perfect for non-EEs like me):
>
> http://www.quasarelectronics.com/4055.htm
>
> It's cheap enough to give it a shot. After I assemble & test it, I'll
> report back on whether or not it works.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
hotwire it to your starter anduse the breathalizer part too tomake sure no drunk
can steal your plane ;-)
-------------- Original message --------------
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <DAN@RVPROJECT.COM>
Thanks to everybody who responded to this, especially Werner. After seeing
Conrad and finding Kemo -- neither of which will sell or ship to me in the
US, I finally found this (perfect for non-EEs like me):
http://www.quasarelectronics.com/4055.htm
It's cheap enough to give it a shot. After I assemble test it, I'll
report back on whether or not it works.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
_-
= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the
ics.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical system design |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "glaesers" <glaesers@wideopenwest.com>
Dick - do you have a diagram for what you are doing for your "Engine Bus" ??
My ECM power design is the same as Mickey's (dual feeds through switches &
diodes) - with the expressed intent to eliminate any single points of
failure (which exist in the 'recommended' design).
I was planning on using my 'main ignition' (ECM) switch for normal
operations, and leaving the 'aux ignition' switch off until needed - and
when used it will illuminate a panel light (because it was done that way in
the electrical system suggested by the engine supplier). If turning both
switches on all the time is a better way to go, I'll just drop the panel
light.
Mickey - again, being cheap, I went looking for Schottky diodes, at a lower
cost than Eric's, and found 20L15T diodes on Digikey for $1.31USD. The
specs look good to me (20V, 15A, less than .5V forward drop). The packaging
is meant for a PCB, but that can be dealt with. I haven't found one in a
DO-204 package (looks like a resistor) that can handle the amperage. I was
going to ask for help on this one of these days - and now seems like a good
time! Any suggestions from the list??
----- from Dick and Mickey: ----------------
>>5. You have almost complete selection over which battery supplies what
>>loads. To take it the final step you could add a switch to connect the
>>aux battery bus to the endurance bus. That way, either battery could
>>supply those circuits. As it is now you have no way to connect the
>>second battery to this bus if you wanted to.
>
>That's a good idea. I'll see if I can find a simple way to do this.
>My basic feeling is that if anything goes wrong, get on the ground.
>To do this, I really only need the battery buses.
--------------------------------------------------------
My design feeds the Endurance bus from both Battery Hot busses. One
question I have is: should these feeds also have diodes? See:
http://www.wideopenwest.com/~glaesers/RV7-Electrical-Architecture.html I
added diodes on both feeds in grey.
I've updated it with Eric's OVP hooked up through the Master switch so that
both the Field and B leads are disabled if it trips (or when the switch is
turned off), so this should eliminate the 'load dump' problem (hopefully).
If the Field lead really does control the alternator's output, I guess the
B-lead contactor could be eliminated (right Bob, Dick, Brian, ....???)
Like Mickey, I hooked it up to both the primary and endurance busses,
according to Eric's diagram.
Thanks for your input,
Dennis Glaeser
Message 17
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0.53 FOR_FREE BODY: No such thing as a free lunch (1)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>> ...Schottky diodes, ....and found 20L15T diodes on Digikey for
$1.31USD..... The
>>specs look good to me (20V, 15A, less than .5V forward drop).
>>Any suggestions from the list??
Be careful! When the vendor say a Schottky is good for 15A, he means 15A at
50% duty cycle. That's 7.5A for you and me. And 20V is really on the ragged
edge of the requirement. Most assuredly the Schottky 20L15T diode WILL NOT
DO.
No mystery. The Schottky I sell is International Rectifier p/n 122NQ030R.
This is a beefy package with a wide die that makes for very very low Vf of
under 0.2 V, and will carry 60 Amps in a pinch. I charge a little more
because I supply some instructions and thermal coupling material. But if you
buy from Digikey directly you have to pick up the handling and/or shipping
charge. I'll ship for FREE.
I dropped plans for my Mosfet Superdiode that would have carried 60 A with a
Vf of 0.15 V...you can see why.
Buy from me or my children will have no Christmas presents....again.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical system design |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>That's a good point. Do people usually put a fuse or fuselink
>on these battery bus connections? I have not seen them, but it
>should be considered. These busses will be a couple of inches
>from the batteries.
>
>
If they are as close as you say, then there is no problem with what you
have. I just wanted to caution you if you were going to put the bus
connections far away from the battery that the connection should be
protected.
>Great idea - I'll check with Eric to find the best way to do this. It
>could be that I don't even need to disconnect the B lead. That would
>be the best.
>
>
I think that you will still probably want to disconnect the B lead. If
the alternator is doing nasty things best to isolate it.
>I just want to flick on both switches, and let it run. If I don't
>have diodes, then the current can flow the wrong way, right? Perhaps
>I have this wrong. Do you plan to have both connections active at
>all times?
>
>
If you will have both switches on all the time, then you will need the
diodes to prevent reverse currents. I assumed that you were planning to
switch to one or the other. I have no switches where yours are, just
diodes. I do have a redundant switched path from the output of the
diodes to my so-called engine bus. Either design will work - take your pick
>I may turn off the main bus for some reason, even tho the alternator
>is working. Also, this is the way Eric recommends wiring it! :-)
>
>
Okay, but if you do this, you have to remember to put the endurance bus
alt feed switch on or you will not have power to it anyway. Also, if
you do turn off the main bus (which requires turning off both battery
switches) be careful to also turn off the alternator first, or you will
be running the alternator with no battery load - not good.
>Yes, that's a tricky one. I want to have all my switches up when
>flying, and the normal position for that switch is to have the
>switch open, no connection between the battery bus and the endurance
>bus. I'd rather have consistency in flight than on the ground,
>but I need to think about this some more.
>
>
Valid point. You will just have to be extra careful with a shutdown
checklist to make sure that switch is up and everything else is down
when you leave the plane. Always a little tricky to choose the switch
operating positions.
Dick
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical system design |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "glaesers" <glaesers@wideopenwest.com>
Eric,
This list is better than 'must see' TV. I read your response, started
laughing, and had to explain you to my wife ;-)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
<emjones@charter.net>
>> ...Schottky diodes, ....and found 20L15T diodes on Digikey for
>>$1.31USD..... The
>>specs look good to me (20V, 15A, less than .5V forward drop).
>>Any suggestions from the list??
>>>>Be careful! When the vendor say a Schottky is good for 15A, he means 15A
at
>>>>50% duty cycle. That's 7.5A for you and me. And 20V is really on the
ragged
>>>>edge of the requirement. Most assuredly the Schottky 20L15T diode WILL
NOT
>>>>DO.
See, I'm glad I asked!! They need to publish a 'plain language
interpretation' version of the specs for these things.
>>>>Buy from me or my children will have no Christmas presents....again.
Well, maybe next Christmas. This year I have 2 in college. I'm counting on
them getting good jobs so they can support me in the lifestyle I'd like to
become accustomed...
>>>>Regards,
>>>>Eric M. Jones
>>>>www.PerihelionDesign.com
Thanks for your help,
Dennis Glaeser
Message 20
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0.87 UPPERCASE_50_75 message body is 50-75% uppercase
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wendy Trahan" <weezeet@hotmail.com>
PLEASE REMOVE MY EMAIL ADDRESS FROM YOUR MAILING LISTS! I AM NOT
INTERESTED, AND ALL YOU ARE DOING IS BOGGING DOWN MY EMAIL.
Message 21
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Unless someone else 'counseled' 'her' or otherwise removed
'her' from the list, this smells like a worm to me. I just
went and checked for 'her' username on the matronics site
and was unable to find any such user. I also checked the
weasel log. Interesting. I recommend that no one respond
to 'her' message.
Matt-
VE N34RD, C150 N714BK
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wendy Trahan"
> <weezeet@hotmail.com>
>
> PLEASE REMOVE MY EMAIL ADDRESS FROM YOUR MAILING LISTS! I AM NOT
> INTERESTED, AND ALL YOU ARE DOING IS BOGGING DOWN MY EMAIL.
>
>
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