Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:51 AM - Re: PowerSchottky (Mickey Coggins)
2. 07:36 AM - Re: PowerSchottky (Paul Messinger)
3. 08:04 AM - Re: PowerSchottky (Paul Messinger)
4. 10:23 AM - Cad Preferences/Ideas (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
5. 11:00 AM - MicroAir 760 doesn't modulate when keyed (Tom Barnes)
6. 11:07 AM - Re: Cad Preferences/Ideas (larry)
7. 11:07 AM - Re: Cad Preferences/Ideas (larry)
8. 12:52 PM - Re: Cad Preferences/Ideas (Dan O'Brien)
9. 01:52 PM - Re: Cad Preferences/Ideas (Mickey Coggins)
10. 04:03 PM - Zip-Ties (Tinne maha)
11. 04:04 PM - Facet Fuel Pump (Tinne maha)
12. 04:13 PM - Fusible Links (Tinne maha)
13. 06:05 PM - Re: Zip-Ties (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
14. 07:04 PM - Re: Zip-Ties (Scott Aldrich)
15. 07:21 PM - Re: Zip-Ties (Brian Kraut)
16. 08:15 PM - Tachometer & P-lead & Dual Mag Pack (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
17. 09:01 PM - Alternator 'B' Lead Protection (Tinne maha)
18. 09:17 PM - Re: Facet Fuel Pump (Werner Schneider)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: PowerSchottky |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>>As long as you can stand the V drop its a good inexpensive solution. The V
>>drop becomes more important in electrically dependent applications where
>>getting as much power out of the battery is important.
>
> Why do we have ANY diodes in series with battery powered equipment?
> Seems that the best design doesn't need to consider electrically
> efficient diodes for battery-only operations.
In my application, I have one ECM with only one power input,
and I want to hook it up to both battery busses. Clearly the
likelihood of a battery failing is pretty low, but I'd like
to get the juice from both batteries for this critical-to-flight
component.
http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040406145425120
As I understand it, I need some kind of a diode to keep the
current from flowing the wrong way, and I want to make sure
that I get as low a voltage drop across the diode as possible.
I've already bought the powerschotty diodes, and am not concerned
about the cost, but I if you can see a better way to do this,
I would be most appreciative!
The rest of my electrical system design is here:
http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20041121101637759
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: PowerSchottky |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PowerSchottky
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 07:49 AM 11/24/2004 -0800, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger"
<paulm@olypen.com>
>> >
> >As long as you can stand the V drop its a good inexpensive solution. The
V
> >drop becomes more important in electrically dependent applications where
> >getting as much power out of the battery is important.
>
> Why do we have ANY diodes in series with battery powered equipment?
> Seems that the best design doesn't need to consider electrically
> efficient diodes for battery-only operations.
Best is in the eyes of the beholder. Consider the builder that is using a
stock auto engine electrical system. (Only one that is.) He has two
batteries and does need to have both powering the single engine elecrical
system. One can argue that diodes allow both batteries to power the same
computer with no chance of a power off glitch (as is possible with switches
to route the power). There are other ways to wire systems that may not agree
with your "best" approach that provide more comfort, lower pilot work load,
or just personal perference. As long as they have no major hidden faults I
feel there are several good ways to design a system as well as a large
number of ways to design a bad system.
Personally I do not like the single stock computer setup, but there is a
sizable group including a FWF manufacturer (Eggenfelner) that sells a single
string system as the most reliable way to go.
As the stock auto computer will work at very low supply voltages the
additional diode drop is not a concern as long as its not too large.
>
> Sure . . . which reminds me. Did your studies size the energy
> signature of alternator load dumps sufficiently to select a
> Transorb to trap them?
Yes and no big deal to clamp. There are system implications however, and yes
I am getting closer to publishing. Its a matter of priorities as my personal
family concerns have higher priority. Also I am taking the time for a multi
person peer review (6 fellow engineers with a combined experience of over
200 man years) as well as providing at least one designed and tested
solution to every problem or concern discovered during the testing phase.
Load dump turned out to be the tip of the iceburg and the simplest to
handle. We did a complete electrical system study, bench setup and test.
As we found no critical or emergency type of concern we feel its better to
take longer and produce the best results possible. Before the end of the
year hopefully.
Paul
>
> Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: PowerSchottky |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
I use the IR 160CMQ045 with both diodes in parallel to charge the backup
battery as I do not like the use of a power contactor etc. The backup
battery charge voltage is 0.3v lower (MAX) than the alternator output and
with this additional drop its still high enough to fully charge the backup
battery (just takes a little longer for the last 10% of charge). The diodes
are much lighter and lower cost and passive so there is no need for
switches, pilot control, etc.
In an electrically dependent design I feel that only the primary battery
should be used to start the engine as the modern batteries have more than
enough power to do this and if one battery is not enough perhaps not a good
day to fly. If both batteries are needed to start then its likely flight
will occur before the batteries are fully charged and an alternator failure
would result in a battery only condition with a starting point of less than
full charge. In my case the backup battery is fully charged immediately
after starting as its not used for starting.
I have dual ign/fuel injection systems, each dedicated to one battery and no
diodes in series there.
I have some avionics where diodes are used to provide switchless power from
either battery as needed. Here I use the above mentioned diodes as a power
source combiner in a similar way to your engine computer power setup. My
single switch is after the power is combined, not before as you are doing.
Your approach to powering the single computer seems reasonable to me (based
on a quick look) and for what its worth that is :-).
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PowerSchottky
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
<mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>
> >>As long as you can stand the V drop its a good inexpensive solution. The
V
> >>drop becomes more important in electrically dependent applications where
> >>getting as much power out of the battery is important.
> >
> > Why do we have ANY diodes in series with battery powered equipment?
> > Seems that the best design doesn't need to consider electrically
> > efficient diodes for battery-only operations.
>
> In my application, I have one ECM with only one power input,
> and I want to hook it up to both battery busses. Clearly the
> likelihood of a battery failing is pretty low, but I'd like
> to get the juice from both batteries for this critical-to-flight
> component.
>
> http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040406145425120
>
> As I understand it, I need some kind of a diode to keep the
> current from flowing the wrong way, and I want to make sure
> that I get as low a voltage drop across the diode as possible.
>
> I've already bought the powerschotty diodes, and am not concerned
> about the cost, but I if you can see a better way to do this,
> I would be most appreciative!
>
> The rest of my electrical system design is here:
>
> http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20041121101637759
>
> Thanks,
> Mickey
>
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Cad Preferences/Ideas |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
List,
I have Bob's CD and looked at ACad Lite, Intellicad, Turbocad. Also Visio
and Smartdraw. I would love to have a wiring diagram specific to my RV6a which
is going to have simple, all electric, one batt/one alternator architecture.
However, the learning curve looks steep on most of these, as well as the
expense of the Visio or Smartdraw if I went that route. I would appreciate any
thoughts/input/ideas on those who have been there/done that...
Happy Turkey,
Jerry Cochran
Message 5
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| Subject: | MicroAir 760 doesn't modulate when keyed |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tom Barnes" <skytop@megsinet.net>
Bob,
Back in September of '03, you offered to bench check my MicroAir 760 transceiver
and on your bench, it checked out okay. My problem was never resolved so
I reinstalled it and have since lived with just using it as a second receiver.
Well, I just came across some documentation that Jim Weir wrote in his article
"The Little Radio That Could (Installation, Part II)" that addresses my problem
EXACTLY.
First let me say that I constructed and installed one of Jim's audio panel kits
and am well pleased with its performance. I'm not sure if people using other
audio panels have experienced this problem.
Jim described the problem and solution as "the transmitter would key and put out
power, but there was no modulation (audio) on the carrier. But when I grounded
the key line directly at the barrier strip I had full carrier and modulation."
If I understand his article, the problem has to do with accumulated resistance
causing excessive voltage on the key line. It seems that the MicroAir unit needs
0.4 volts or less to fully transmit and the rest of the world is satisfied
with 1.5 to 2 volts. He said that he installed a relay at the audio panel to
remedy the problem.
In my application, the PTT is wired through the audio panel and then through the
ptt switch on the control stick and then back to the avionics ground on the
firewall. There is a CPC connector at the control stick. Considering this, I
can understand how this problem would apply to me.
So in closing, I will also install a relay up near the radio unless you can come
up with a simpler solution.
Tom Barnes -6 all electric 75+ hrs.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cad Preferences/Ideas |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: larry <larry@grrok.com>
I used AutoSketch for my drawings. There are no components with the
standard package but it is quite easy to build two or three separate sheets
of the symbols you will be using: switches, contactors, grounds, etc. and
then simply drag them into any drawing you are constructing.
At 11:22 AM 11/25/2004, Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
>
>List,
>
>I have Bob's CD and looked at ACad Lite, Intellicad, Turbocad. Also Visio
>and Smartdraw. I would love to have a wiring diagram specific to my RV6a
>which
>is going to have simple, all electric, one batt/one alternator architecture.
>
>However, the learning curve looks steep on most of these, as well as the
>expense of the Visio or Smartdraw if I went that route. I would appreciate
>any
>thoughts/input/ideas on those who have been there/done that...
>
>Happy Turkey,
>
>Jerry Cochran
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cad Preferences/Ideas |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: larry <larry@grrok.com>
I used AutoSketch for my drawings. There are no components with the
standard package but it is quite easy to build two or three separate sheets
of the symbols you will be using: switches, contactors, grounds, etc. and
then simply drag them into any drawing you are constructing.
At 11:22 AM 11/25/2004, Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
>
>List,
>
>I have Bob's CD and looked at ACad Lite, Intellicad, Turbocad. Also Visio
>and Smartdraw. I would love to have a wiring diagram specific to my RV6a
>which
>is going to have simple, all electric, one batt/one alternator architecture.
>
>However, the learning curve looks steep on most of these, as well as the
>expense of the Visio or Smartdraw if I went that route. I would appreciate
>any
>thoughts/input/ideas on those who have been there/done that...
>
>Happy Turkey,
>
>Jerry Cochran
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Cad Preferences/Ideas |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien@cox.net>
I have Bob's CD and looked at ACad Lite, Intellicad, Turbocad. Also Visio
and Smartdraw. I would love to have a wiring diagram specific to my RV6a
which is going to have simple, all electric, one batt/one alternator
architecture. However, the learning curve looks steep on most of these, as
well as the expense of the Visio or Smartdraw if I went that route. I
would appreciate any thoughts/input/ideas on those who have been there/done
that...
I used Intellicad from the CD, and I think it's great. There is a bit of a
learning curve. It helps to have a little experience with a vector drawing
program. I took a rainy afternoon once and played with it using Bob's
sample Lancair IV wiring book. Did my wirebook using the program by
modifying the IV book.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Cad Preferences/Ideas |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi Jerry,
I personally use visio, but I have seen some amazing things
done with powerpoint. It's pretty easy to learn. I assume
you are on a windows platform, but if you are on Mac, there
are lots of excellent solutions. If you are on Linux, then
tgif is very good.
StarOffice is another option - it has lots of stuff for
only 40 bucks. Includes a nice drawing program.
http://wwws.sun.com/software/star/staroffice/
Of course, if you are fast, you can use smartdraw for
30 days for free!
Mickey
At 19:33 25-11-04, Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote:
-----Start of Original Message-----
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
>
>List,
>
>I have Bob's CD and looked at ACad Lite, Intellicad, Turbocad. Also Visio
>and Smartdraw. I would love to have a wiring diagram specific to my RV6a which
>is going to have simple, all electric, one batt/one alternator architecture.
>
>However, the learning curve looks steep on most of these, as well as the
>expense of the Visio or Smartdraw if I went that route. I would appreciate any
>thoughts/input/ideas on those who have been there/done that...
>
>Happy Turkey,
>
>Jerry Cochran
>
>
-----End of Original Message-----
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 10
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
Do you all recommend using zip-ties to mount electrical wires?
I had an A&P advise strongly against them. He said vibration will wear them
out, independent of heat, chemical or UV exposure.
Last weekend this A&P (who happened to be annualing my hangar-mate's
certificated craft) took an interest in my project & gave me several
'pointers', one of them being not to use zip-ties at all, or atleast in
areas that will be inaccessible (He recommended using adel clamps) One of
the most frustrating things about this project is getting 5 different (&
sometimes contrary) answers from 3 different people whose opinions are
presumably more qualified than my own. I don't have the time or other
resources to check the successes/failures of every 'qualified' source I talk
to, so how does one decide who to believe? I'm sure others have had similar
experiences.
Any input will be interesting & appreciated. Thanks,
Grant
Message 11
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
List,
I bought an electric solenoid primer valve recently ('cuz I like the idea of
having less fuel lines on my side of the firewall) for my Facet automotive
electric fuel pump. There are no instuctions at all. Can anyone tell me
where to get the fittings to plumb fuel from the positive side of my fuel
pump to both the carb & the solenoid valve? Does one just use a big 'T'
fitting with reducers to get down to the solenoid size fuel line?
Thanks again,
Grant
Message 12
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
Bob,
In Chapter 10 (Cirquit Protection) of 'The Connection' (My version is dated
April of 2000), you recommend using a fuse-link for the hot feed of an
electronic ignition. Has that been replaced by a fuse in the battery bus in
more recent editions?
I know this sounds like a dumb question...I'm 99% sure the answer is yes,
but I don't fully understand the difference between fuses & fuse links. I
know their function is the same (they are the weak link that protects the
wire), but what are the advantages/disadvantages of each? Why not use a
fuse on the alternator field wire shown in Z-11?
Grant
Message 13
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 11/25/2004 6:04:23 PM Central Standard Time,
tinnemaha@hotmail.com writes:
I had an A&P advise strongly against them. He said vibration will wear them
out, independent of heat, chemical or UV exposure.
Hogwash- you're gonna inspect this stuff occasionally, no? Install them
TIGHT and they become as static as whatever they are strangling...
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
Message 14
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
I know the Boeing aircraft have thousands of zip ties holding wire bundles
together, at least the 767 and 757 do.
I have heard some say they can cause wear on the engine mount if used
directly on the tube.
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tinne
maha
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha"
<tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
Do you all recommend using zip-ties to mount electrical wires?
I had an A&P advise strongly against them. He said vibration will wear them
out, independent of heat, chemical or UV exposure.
Last weekend this A&P (who happened to be annualing my hangar-mate's
certificated craft) took an interest in my project & gave me several
'pointers', one of them being not to use zip-ties at all, or atleast in
areas that will be inaccessible (He recommended using adel clamps) One of
the most frustrating things about this project is getting 5 different (&
sometimes contrary) answers from 3 different people whose opinions are
presumably more qualified than my own. I don't have the time or other
resources to check the successes/failures of every 'qualified' source I talk
to, so how does one decide who to believe? I'm sure others have had similar
experiences.
Any input will be interesting & appreciated. Thanks,
Grant
Message 15
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
On engine mounts I use an adel clamp around the mount with a second adel
clamp screwed to it for the wire. It holds good, resists heat, and spaces
the wire from the mount. Everywhere else it is zip ties.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott
Aldrich
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
I know the Boeing aircraft have thousands of zip ties holding wire bundles
together, at least the 767 and 757 do.
I have heard some say they can cause wear on the engine mount if used
directly on the tube.
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tinne
maha
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha"
<tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
Do you all recommend using zip-ties to mount electrical wires?
I had an A&P advise strongly against them. He said vibration will wear them
out, independent of heat, chemical or UV exposure.
Last weekend this A&P (who happened to be annualing my hangar-mate's
certificated craft) took an interest in my project & gave me several
'pointers', one of them being not to use zip-ties at all, or atleast in
areas that will be inaccessible (He recommended using adel clamps) One of
the most frustrating things about this project is getting 5 different (&
sometimes contrary) answers from 3 different people whose opinions are
presumably more qualified than my own. I don't have the time or other
resources to check the successes/failures of every 'qualified' source I talk
to, so how does one decide who to believe? I'm sure others have had similar
experiences.
Any input will be interesting & appreciated. Thanks,
Grant
Message 16
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|
mahlon_russell@teledyne.com (mahlon mahlon_r),
aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
| Subject: | Tachometer & P-lead & Dual Mag Pack |
0.01 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
I have a Dual Mag pack Lycoming I'm trying to get RPM readings for via the GRT
EIS 4000. Somehow you are supposed to tap into the P-Lead but I think their assumption
is wrong for this engine. I think with normal Left/Right mags mounted
on separate pads you have screws you mount the leads on with ring terminals
or something similar. With mine it's a whole different internal affair.
Anyone run across this and solve it using the Dual Mag pack (IO-360-A1B6D)?
thanks,
Lucky
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 06:46 PM 11/17/2004 -0600, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bobby Hester
> ><bhester@hopkinsville.net>
> >
> >I have the Van's internally regulated alternater and I have installed
> >the OV contactor and the 80amp current limiter. I have a current sensor
> >for my ACS 2002 engine monitor that needs to have a wire from the
> >alternator go thru it. Were would be the best place to do this.
> >
> >1. On the wire from the alternator to the OV contactor.
> >
> >2. On the wire from the OV contactor to the 80amp current limiter.
> >
> >3. It does not matter either one will be fine.
>
> anyplace along the b=lead route will be fine
>
>
> >One more thing can the alternator be hooked up to either side of the OV
> >contactor?
> >
>
> yes
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Alternator 'B' Lead Protection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
List,
I am having trouble picturing the installation of a cirquit breaker for the
B and C SD-20 alternator I am installing. Would one mount it to the
firewall as if it were a panel? Wouldn't the heat be an issue?
Would an in-line fuse be easier? Where could I get an appropriate fuse &
holder?
Thanks,
Grant
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Facet Fuel Pump |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <glastar@gmx.net>
Grant,
I've used a primer fitting from my Gascolator to tee-off the line to the
solenoid.
Werner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Facet Fuel Pump
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha"
<tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
>
> List,
>
> I bought an electric solenoid primer valve recently ('cuz I like the idea
of
> having less fuel lines on my side of the firewall) for my Facet automotive
> electric fuel pump. There are no instuctions at all. Can anyone tell me
> where to get the fittings to plumb fuel from the positive side of my fuel
> pump to both the carb & the solenoid valve? Does one just use a big 'T'
> fitting with reducers to get down to the solenoid size fuel line?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Grant
>
>
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