Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:00 AM - CAD preferences (Graham Singleton)
2. 02:46 AM - List Contributors Lagging By 38%... (Matt Dralle)
3. 07:25 AM - Re: Zip-Ties (Paul McAllister)
4. 07:25 AM - Re: Zip-Ties (William)
5. 07:52 AM - Re: Alternator 'B' Lead Protection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 07:57 AM - Dual Alternators (again!) (irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu)
7. 08:11 AM - Re: Tachometer & P-lead & Dual Mag Pack (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
8. 08:11 AM - Re: Zip-Ties (Boss)
9. 08:27 AM - Re: Zip-Ties (Bikcrzy@aol.com)
10. 08:32 AM - Re: Zip-Ties (Scott Aldrich)
11. 08:34 AM - Re: Zip-Ties (David Burton)
12. 08:41 AM - Re: Zip-Ties (Boss)
13. 09:03 AM - Re: Zip-Ties (Harley)
14. 09:09 AM - Re: Zip-Ties (923te)
15. 09:20 AM - Re: Zip-Ties (Boss)
16. 10:16 AM - Re: Zip-Ties (Leo J. Corbalis)
17. 10:38 AM - Re: Zip-Ties (Karen and Robert Brown)
18. 10:39 AM - ammeters (thomas a. sargent)
19. 10:39 AM - Re: Zip-Ties (923te)
20. 11:11 AM - Re: Zip-Ties (Gerry Holland)
21. 11:55 AM - Re: Zip-Ties (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
22. 12:46 PM - Re: Zip-Ties (Jim Jewell)
23. 02:07 PM - Re: Zip-Ties (Bikcrzy@aol.com)
24. 04:56 PM - Re: Zip-Ties (Bruce Green)
25. 06:04 PM - Re: Zip-Ties (Matt Prather)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
AeroElectric-List Digest List <aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:55 25/11/2004 -0800, AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote:
>I have Bob's CD and looked at ACad Lite, Intellicad, Turbocad. Also Visio
>and Smartdraw. I would love to have a wiring diagram specific to my RV6a which
>
>is going to have simple, all electric, one batt/one alternator architecture.
>
>However, the learning curve looks steep on most of these, as well as the
>expense of the Visio or Smartdraw if I went that route.
I managed to teach myself Turbocad. It's reasonably intuitive. I only use
it once a year and find the re learning curve isn't too steep. Cheap too
and it can read DXF files. Autocad? I just haven't the patience to learn
all the illogical jargon it seems to use, (imho)
Graham
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | List Contributors Lagging By 38%... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
The percentage of people making a Contribution to support the Lists this
year is currently lagging behind last year by approximately 38%! I'm
hoping that everyone is just waiting until the last minute to show their
support... ;-)
Please remember that its solely your direct Contributions that keep these
Lists up and running and most importantly - AD FREE! If the members don't
want to support the Lists directly, then I will likely have to start adding
advertisements to offset the costs of running the Lists. But I *really*
don't want to have to start doing that. I really like the non-commercial
atmosphere here and I think that a lot of the members appreciate that too.
Won't you please take a moment to make a contribution today in support of
the continued ad-free operation of all these Lists?
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I want to send out a word of appreciation to all of the members that have
already made their generous contribution to support the Lists! Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi All,
One word of caution with ZIP ties. It is possible to pull them really
tight, and I have seen a failure mode where over time this caused a wire in
a bundle to pinch and fracture. Ever since then I have only applied them to
be "just firm"
Paul
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William" <wschertz@ispwest.com>
What I have been told is that you should not use Zip ties to fasten items to
the motor mount tubes, that the plastic is abrasive enough that it can cause
erosion of the metal tubes from vibration, that you should use adel clamps
(rubber coated) on the motor mount tubes. However bundling wires with them
is done routinely.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser # 4045
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
>
> I know the Boeing aircraft have thousands of zip ties holding wire bundles
> together, at least the 767 and 757 do.
>
> I have heard some say they can cause wear on the engine mount if used
> directly on the tube.
>
> Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tinne
> maha
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha"
> <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
>
> Do you all recommend using zip-ties to mount electrical wires?
> I had an A&P advise strongly against them. He said vibration will wear
> them
> out, independent of heat, chemical or UV exposure.
>
> Last weekend this A&P (who happened to be annualing my hangar-mate's
> certificated craft) took an interest in my project & gave me several
> 'pointers', one of them being not to use zip-ties at all, or atleast in
> areas that will be inaccessible (He recommended using adel clamps) One of
> the most frustrating things about this project is getting 5 different (&
> sometimes contrary) answers from 3 different people whose opinions are
> presumably more qualified than my own. I don't have the time or other
> resources to check the successes/failures of every 'qualified' source I
> talk
>
> to, so how does one decide who to believe? I'm sure others have had
> similar
> experiences.
>
> Any input will be interesting & appreciated. Thanks,
>
> Grant
>
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Alternator 'B' Lead Protection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:00 PM 11/25/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
>
>List,
>
>I am having trouble picturing the installation of a cirquit breaker for the
>B and C SD-20 alternator I am installing. Would one mount it to the
>firewall as if it were a panel? Wouldn't the heat be an issue?
>
>Would an in-line fuse be easier? Where could I get an appropriate fuse &
>holder?
Sure . . . An ANL30 fuse on mounting base like:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/clbase.jpg
Another alternative is the MAX series fuses by Bussmann.
See:
http://www.bussmann.com/shared/library/catalogs/Buss_Auto-Fuse_Cat.pdf
This catalog shows a variety of high current fuses like
the MAX, ANL, ANN, AMI any one of which would be better suited
than a circuit breaker mounted in the engine compartment. Find
a robust 30A device (NOT the little plastic ATC series like those
used in the fuseblocks).
Bob . . .
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Dual Alternators (again!) |
11/26/2004 10:56:53 AM,
Serialize complete at 11/26/2004 10:56:53 AM
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
Greetings All,
Dual alternator systems have been covered in detail here in the past, but
I'd like
to hear opinions about my somewhat non-std system.
I am currently flying a rotax 912uls with its built-in permanent magnet
alternator.
I have it muzzled with an overvoltage crowbar.
I have two batteries, one general 19aH Odessey and a 7aH emergency backup
for
my BMA EFIS/1 (with automatic switching courtesy of Bob's LVBM module and
a relay).
The Rotax alternator is (less than) marginal for my evening electrical
loads, particularly
the 7a for the Whelan position lights and the 2a comet strobes much less a
planned landing light.
Its not easy to find an alterator which will fit on the rotax vacuum pad
and deliver a useful
current. FlightCrafters in Tampa as it happens sources an internally
regulated 40a device which,
on the rotax, should put out over 20a at cruise rpm.
The main question is: Is there any reason to not run both alternators
simultaneously onto
the main bus. Unfortunately the voltage setpoints and regulation gain for
both voltage
regulators is proprietary. Also I was just going to add another crowbar
and an ammeter
for monitoring. Is there something else I should add to the design?
Thanks,
Ira N224XS
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
"Mahlon_Russell@teledyne.com
Mark Richardson" <rv8bldr@sympatico.ca>,
mahlon mahlon_r <mahlon_russell@teledyne.com>,
aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Tachometer & P-lead & Dual Mag Pack |
0.50 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary
0.01 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
Should one be able to connect to the starter side instead of the mag side?
Also, I have two 27K resistors supplied with my kit but you are supposed to run
each to a switch and you have to select only one line at a time. Also, with
dual mag, Mahlon told me:
"One note though, is the drive ratio of the mags is different between the dual
mags engines and the single two mag engines. You may have to calibrate the system
differently on a dual mag engine in order to get a properly calibrated rpm
reading when using on a dual mag engine."
so you may to recalibrate that for your RMI.
GRT is closed for the holiday's so I can't get their ideas.
Mahlon, can the mag side have copper exposed outside of the connetor cap so one
could solder on the tach wire (sounds less than ideal solution tough and you
have the shield out there to consider too). How much bare wire can one expose
and not worry about EMI issues?
-------------- Original message --------------
> Hi guys,
>
> If anyone can figure this out, I would appreciate it, as I have a
> Rocky Mountain Instruments MicroMonitor and I cannot make the tach
> work. A ring terminal is attached to each mag lug on the key switch,
> from there through a couple of capacitors (can't remember the rating,
> and I am currently out of country), and from there to a single pin on
> the back of my unit.
>
> I get random readings of anywhere from 70 - 360 RPM regardless of
> power setting, and generally get 0 when running on a single mag.
>
> Cheers
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 04:15:21 +0000, lucky wrote:
> > I have a Dual Mag pack Lycoming I'm trying to get RPM readings for via the
GRT
> EIS 4000. Somehow you are supposed to tap into the P-Lead but I think their
> assumption is wrong for this engine. I think with normal Left/Right mags
> mounted on separate pads you have screws you mount the leads on with ring
> terminals or something similar. With mine it's a whole different internal
> affair.
> >
> > Anyone run across this and solve it using the Dual Mag pack (IO-360-A1B6D)?
> >
> > thanks,
> > Lucky
> >
> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> > >
> > >
> > > At 06:46 PM 11/17/2004 -0600, you wrote:
> > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bobby Hester
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >I have the Van's internally regulated alternater and I have installed
> > > >the OV contactor and the 80amp current limiter. I have a current sensor
> > > >for my ACS 2002 engine monitor that needs to have a wire from the
> > > >alternator go thru it. Were would be the best place to do this.
> > > >
> > > >1. On the wire from the alternator to the OV contactor.
> > > >
> > > >2. On the wire from the OV contactor to the 80amp current limiter.
> > > >
> > > >3. It does not matter either one will be fine.
> > >
> > > anyplace along the b=lead route will be fine
> > >
> > >
> > > >One more thing can the alternator be hooked up to either side of the OV
> > > >contactor?
> > > >
> > >
> > > yes
> > >
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
Should one be able to connect to the starter side instead of the mag side?
Also, I have two 27K resistors supplied with my kit but you are supposed to run
each to a switch and you have to select only one line at a time. Also, with dual
mag, Mahlon told me:
"One note though, is the drive ratio of the mags is different between the dual
mags engines and the single two mag engines. You may have to calibrate the system
differently on a dual mag engine in order to get a properly calibrated rpm
reading when using on a dual mag engine."
so you may to recalibrate that for your RMI.
GRT is closed for the holiday's so I can't get their ideas.
Mahlon, can the mag side have copper exposed outside of the connetor cap so one
could solder on the tach wire (sounds less than ideal solution tough and you
have the shield out there to consider too). How much bare wire can one expose
and not worry about EMI issues?
-------------- Original message --------------
Hi guys,
If anyone can figure this out, I would appreciate it, as I have a
Rocky Mountain Instruments MicroMonitor and I cannot make the tach
work. A ring terminal is attached to each mag lug on the key switch,
from there through a couple of capacitors (can't remember the rating,
and I am currently out of country), and from there to a single pin on
the back of my unit.
I get random readings of anywhere from 70 - 360 RPM regardless of
power setting, and generally get 0 when running on a single mag.
Cheers
Mark
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 04:15:21 +0000, lucky <LUCKYMACY@COMCAST.NET>wrote:
I have a Dual Mag pack Lycoming I'm trying to get RPM readings for via the GRT
EIS 4000. Somehow you are supposed to tap into the P-Lead but I think their
assumption is wrong for this engine. I think with normal Left/Right mags
mounted on separate pads you have screws you mount the leads on with ring
terminals or something similar. With mine it's a whole different internal
affair.
Anyone run across this and solve it using the Dual Mag pack (IO-360-A1B6D)?
thanks,
Lucky
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<B.NUCKOLLS@COX.NET>
At 06:46 PM 11/17/2004 -0600, you wrote:
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bobby Hester
<BHESTER@HOPKINSVILLE.NET>
I have the Van's internally regulated alternater and I have installed
&
gt;the OV contactor and the 80amp current limiter. I have a current sensor
for my ACS 2002 engine monitor that needs to have a wire from the
alternator go thru it. Were would be the best place to do this.
1. On the wire from the alternator to the OV contactor.
2. On the wire from the OV contactor to the 80amp current limiter.
3. It does not matter either one will be fine.
anyplace along the b=lead route will be fine
One more thing can the alternator be hooked up to either side of the OV
contactor?
yes
Bob . . .
&g
Electric-List Email Forum -
ww.matronics.com/archives
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Boss" <bossone@cox.net>
What a bunch of happy horse kaka. For an abraisve to work it has to be
harder than what it is to abrade and has to move relative to what it is to
abrade. Don't tell me that a nylon tie wrap is going to cut 4130 steel or
that it is going to move when properly chinced up. Who dreamed up this crap?
----- Original Message -----
From: "William" <wschertz@ispwest.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William" <wschertz@ispwest.com>
>
> What I have been told is that you should not use Zip ties to fasten items
to
> the motor mount tubes, that the plastic is abrasive enough that it can
cause
> erosion of the metal tubes from vibration, that you should use adel clamps
> (rubber coated) on the motor mount tubes. However bundling wires with them
> is done routinely.
> Bill Schertz
> KIS Cruiser # 4045
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
> >
> > I know the Boeing aircraft have thousands of zip ties holding wire
bundles
> > together, at least the 767 and 757 do.
> >
> > I have heard some say they can cause wear on the engine mount if used
> > directly on the tube.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tinne
> > maha
> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
> >
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha"
> > <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Do you all recommend using zip-ties to mount electrical wires?
> > I had an A&P advise strongly against them. He said vibration will wear
> > them
> > out, independent of heat, chemical or UV exposure.
> >
> > Last weekend this A&P (who happened to be annualing my hangar-mate's
> > certificated craft) took an interest in my project & gave me several
> > 'pointers', one of them being not to use zip-ties at all, or atleast in
> > areas that will be inaccessible (He recommended using adel clamps) One
of
> > the most frustrating things about this project is getting 5 different (&
> > sometimes contrary) answers from 3 different people whose opinions are
> > presumably more qualified than my own. I don't have the time or other
> > resources to check the successes/failures of every 'qualified' source I
> > talk
> >
> > to, so how does one decide who to believe? I'm sure others have had
> > similar
> > experiences.
> >
> > Any input will be interesting & appreciated. Thanks,
> >
> >
Grant
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bikcrzy@aol.com
Perhaps the reference was "chemically abrasive"?
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
Abrading the steel may be kaka but I have seen them abrade the paint
exposing the steel to wimpy old air and moisture turning the steel into
kaka. Obviously, not cinched up properly.
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Boss
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Boss" <bossone@cox.net>
What a bunch of happy horse kaka. For an abraisve to work it has to be
harder than what it is to abrade and has to move relative to what it is to
abrade. Don't tell me that a nylon tie wrap is going to cut 4130 steel or
that it is going to move when properly chinced up. Who dreamed up this crap?
----- Original Message -----
From: "William" <wschertz@ispwest.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William" <wschertz@ispwest.com>
>
> What I have been told is that you should not use Zip ties to fasten items
to
> the motor mount tubes, that the plastic is abrasive enough that it can
cause
> erosion of the metal tubes from vibration, that you should use adel clamps
> (rubber coated) on the motor mount tubes. However bundling wires with them
> is done routinely.
> Bill Schertz
> KIS Cruiser # 4045
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
> >
> > I know the Boeing aircraft have thousands of zip ties holding wire
bundles
> > together, at least the 767 and 757 do.
> >
> > I have heard some say they can cause wear on the engine mount if used
> > directly on the tube.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tinne
> > maha
> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
> >
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha"
> > <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Do you all recommend using zip-ties to mount electrical wires?
> > I had an A&P advise strongly against them. He said vibration will wear
> > them
> > out, independent of heat, chemical or UV exposure.
> >
> > Last weekend this A&P (who happened to be annualing my hangar-mate's
> > certificated craft) took an interest in my project & gave me several
> > 'pointers', one of them being not to use zip-ties at all, or atleast in
> > areas that will be inaccessible (He recommended using adel clamps) One
of
> > the most frustrating things about this project is getting 5 different (&
> > sometimes contrary) answers from 3 different people whose opinions are
> > presumably more qualified than my own. I don't have the time or other
> > resources to check the successes/failures of every 'qualified' source I
> > talk
> >
> > to, so how does one decide who to believe? I'm sure others have had
> > similar
> > experiences.
> >
> > Any input will be interesting & appreciated. Thanks,
> >
> >
Grant
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
Why that's a nice friendly reply. Thanks. I think we all know what Boss
backwards is, a double S.O.B
I use a wooden dowel to drill holes in glass. Gee, I wonder how soft wood
can cut through glass? Could it be that the grit used might do the cutting?
Maybe the prop might blow some dust into the engine compartment and it could
get under the soft zip-tie and act like sandpaper?
I don't think zip ties firewall forward are the best idea anyway. They get
brittle from the heat over time. Using them on the engine mount probably
isn't the best idea. They may not cut the tube in half but they can take
the paint or powder coat off in a hurry..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Boss" <bossone@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Boss" <bossone@cox.net>
>
> What a bunch of happy horse kaka. For an abraisve to work it has to be
> harder than what it is to abrade and has to move relative to what it is to
> abrade. Don't tell me that a nylon tie wrap is going to cut 4130 steel or
> that it is going to move when properly chinced up. Who dreamed up this
crap?
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Boss" <bossone@cox.net>
So, is it going to react with the paint ofn the tubing. I doubt it.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Bikcrzy@aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bikcrzy@aol.com
>
> Perhaps the reference was "chemically abrasive"?
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley <harley@agelesswings.com>
>>Don't tell me that a nylon tie wrap is going to cut 4130 steel<<
Yep...can and does....
Many prisons ban dental floss because prisoners have been known to use
it to saw through the bars...there are several documented escapes where
the prisoner used this method.
Most dental floss is made of nylon...the same thing many tiewraps are
made of, and do the job very nicely with no other abrasives needed.
Temperature changes can cause your "tight" tiewrap to loosen and
tighten, as well as the normal stress on the clip that holds it tight
can cause it to loosen. Then, all it needs is the constant vibration to
do the same thing to your mounts.
Harley
Boss wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Boss" <bossone@cox.net>
>
>What a bunch of happy horse kaka. For an abraisve to work it has to be
>harder than what it is to abrade and has to move relative to what it is to
>abrade. Don't tell me that a nylon tie wrap is going to cut 4130 steel or
>that it is going to move when properly chinced up. Who dreamed up this crap?
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "William" <wschertz@ispwest.com>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
>
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William" <wschertz@ispwest.com>
>>
>>What I have been told is that you should not use Zip ties to fasten items
>>
>>
>to
>
>
>>the motor mount tubes, that the plastic is abrasive enough that it can
>>
>>
>cause
>
>
>>erosion of the metal tubes from vibration, that you should use adel clamps
>>(rubber coated) on the motor mount tubes. However bundling wires with them
>>is done routinely.
>>Bill Schertz
>>KIS Cruiser # 4045
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
>>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
>>>
>>>I know the Boeing aircraft have thousands of zip ties holding wire
>>>
>>>
>bundles
>
>
>>>together, at least the 767 and 757 do.
>>>
>>>I have heard some say they can cause wear on the engine mount if used
>>>directly on the tube.
>>>
>>>Scott
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tinne
>>>maha
>>>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
>>>
>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha"
>>><tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
>>>
>>>Do you all recommend using zip-ties to mount electrical wires?
>>>I had an A&P advise strongly against them. He said vibration will wear
>>>them
>>>out, independent of heat, chemical or UV exposure.
>>>
>>>Last weekend this A&P (who happened to be annualing my hangar-mate's
>>>certificated craft) took an interest in my project & gave me several
>>>'pointers', one of them being not to use zip-ties at all, or atleast in
>>>areas that will be inaccessible (He recommended using adel clamps) One
>>>
>>>
>of
>
>
>>>the most frustrating things about this project is getting 5 different (&
>>>sometimes contrary) answers from 3 different people whose opinions are
>>>presumably more qualified than my own. I don't have the time or other
>>>resources to check the successes/failures of every 'qualified' source I
>>>talk
>>>
>>>to, so how does one decide who to believe? I'm sure others have had
>>>similar
>>>experiences.
>>>
>>>Any input will be interesting & appreciated. Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>Grant
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
My A&P used zip ties and made them up real nice and tight just like Boss
says to do.. In fact, due to vibration induced chafing they eventually wore
thru the CHT sensor wire until it parted. Zip ties are conveniant but not
the best option for wiring aircraft engine compartments.
As a side note:
Vibration between materials still exists no matter how tightly compresssd
together they are.
It is interesting how machine tool steel has much greater hardness than what
it is cutting but it still wears.
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Boss" <bossone@cox.net>
Slip some shrink wrap over the wires and then look under the cowl on a
preflight inspction.
----- Original Message -----
From: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
>
> My A&P used zip ties and made them up real nice and tight just like Boss
> says to do.. In fact, due to vibration induced chafing they eventually
wore
> thru the CHT sensor wire until it parted. Zip ties are conveniant but not
> the best option for wiring aircraft engine compartments.
>
> As a side note:
>
> Vibration between materials still exists no matter how tightly compresssd
> together they are.
>
> It is interesting how machine tool steel has much greater hardness than
what
> it is cutting but it still wears.
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
I use zip ties in the cowling. Every hose and or wire that might touch is
firmly tied together. I've had to remove some and there is no sign of wear.
This includes the engine mount. tubes.
One recommendation get the black ones, the white ties do get brittle with
age at as a guess twice as fast as the black ones. Look at it as another
maintenance chore just like replacing the fuel, oil and coolant hoses.
Leo Corbalis
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Karen and Robert Brown" <bkbrown@ashcreekwireless.com>
IMHO, the only advantage of zip-ties is reduced time for installation. I don't
recommend using them in the engine compartment, they get brittle with time and
can let loose without warning. Tensioning zip-ties is also problematic. If
you overtension, they WILL eat the insulation with enough vibration/time. I
have also seen wire-ties eat into engine mounts and aluminum when installed improperly.
If you undertension, wire-ties they don't hold well. They have a tendency
to slightly loosen after initial installation. To cure the above problems,
you might consider a wire tie install tool. Wire-ties also have an affinity
for human skin. You'll find this out down the road when you reach up behind
your panel to do something and shortly thereafter donate a small amount of
blood to the nylon god. For shear beauty (and no cuts on your hands) nothing
can beat tying your wires together the old fashioned way. See the aeroelectric
site for the technique. Yes, it's time consuming and requires a certain amount
of learned skill.
Adels work great. They also weigh more and are time consuming to install. I'd
use them to use larger wiring harnesses and for all wiring attachment in the
engine compartment unless no other option exists.
Like all things on an aircraft, each situation will require a balance of needs
and limitations...
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@comcast.net>
I was looking at ammeter instruments in the ACS catalog and noticed few
(Rochester, for instance) that say "no sender required. " What does that
mean?
What I was actually looking for was ammeters that use hall effect
sensors. I don't see any mention of it in the ACS catalog. Does any
one know of any such?
--
Tom Sargent
RV-6A.
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
There is more to wear than a materials hardness.
We use Nylotron for replacing certain types of steel parts in oil field
pumping units..read heavy duty.. the Nylon outwears the steel.. doesn't
seem right but it is true.
For a manufacturers similar claim see:
http://www.all-statebelting.com/plastics.htm
Quoted below:
"Compound Gear
Material: Moly Filled Nylon (Nylatron GSM)
Previous Material: Steel
This gear runs on a large steel gear ring on machines that braid reinforced
tubing, and wear and lubrication were a problem. The Nylon outwears the
steel by over 3:1, and does not cause undue wear on the steel gear ring. The
need for lubrication is eliminated, which means less maintenance and a
cleaner operation. As an added benefit, noise from the contact of the gears
is greatly reduced."
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
Hi!
This may be madness but I used Rubber Channel Moulding from Wicks Aircraft
to protect the bigger looms of wires when tying with Zip Ties.
I got the 1/8" and 1/4" stock, created a circumference around loom and then
applied Zip-Tie firmly.
The stuff I refer to is at:
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=1852/index.html
Regards from UK
Gerry
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
We bought an almost new RV6a last year with bunches of zip ties inside
cowling. Most are very brittle and break easily, I assume because of heat. I saw
one product that uses a special tool to install thin SS bands for Firesleeve.
Tool cheap, but bands are $1.27 ea. Wicks has them here:
_http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=1330/index.html?PH
PSESSID=3bc08e17db1a9adc64a18c7d37036cca_
(http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=1330/index.html?PHPSESSID=3bc08e17db1a9adc64a18c7d3703
6cca)
Jerry Cochran
From: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
Do you all recommend using zip-ties to mount electrical wires?
I had an A&P advise strongly against them. He said vibration will wear them
out, independent of heat, chemical or UV exposure.
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
>
> There is more to wear than a materials hardness.
Amen to that,
Various rock and gem stone materials are cut with soft wire and a slurry of
fine ground cuttings from the material to be cut. An endless loop of the
wire is strung into notches around the material to be cut and then around a
motor driven pulley The slurry is introduced into the notches. As the wire
passes over the rock the slurry is imbedded into the wire and it in turn
cuts the stone.
If you have ever seen the groves that the engine oil seals can wear into
hardened shafts, you were looking at the results of approximately the same
principal. The soft rubber or synthetic seal material appears to have worn
the harder steel when in fact that is not actually correct.
Brass bushings can also `appear' to wear into the shafts they carry.
Because I think that corrosion should be included with erosion and abrasion
when considering attaching things to engine mounts I avoid such attachments
if at all possible. For this reason all airframe fastenings
have had and still do require some consideration.
Adel clamps clamped around tubes when not sized right (loose) can move and
abrade due to excessive movement this loose fit can also retain moisture.
eventually the resulting rust or oxide material becomes the slurry that
increases the damage rate etc. The same holds true for tie wraps etc.
As has been pointed out elsewhere in this current thread tie wraps can be
installed too loose as well as too tight.
In fact the possibility of wrong mode of use applies to tie wraps as it does
to most any other fastening systems.
As usual nothing is quite as simple as it seems to appear at first glance.
Most often a second glance is much more interesting.
Jim in Kelowna
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bikcrzy@aol.com
Well said Jim.
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bruce Green <mailindex@juno.com>
Ty-Wraps can definately cut throught an engine mount, I have seen it. I
am not sure if it is the Ty-Wrap of the sand or dirt that can be
underneath it, but either way, it can cut through. Fortunately, the
problem can be solved by using electrical tape under the wrap.
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:20:12 -0600 "Boss" <bossone@cox.net> writes:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Boss" <bossone@cox.net>
>
> What a bunch of happy horse kaka. For an abraisve to work it has to
> be
> harder than what it is to abrade and has to move relative to what it
> is to
> abrade. Don't tell me that a nylon tie wrap is going to cut 4130
> steel or
> that it is going to move when properly chinced up. Who dreamed up
> this crap?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William" <wschertz@ispwest.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William"
> <wschertz@ispwest.com>
> >
> > What I have been told is that you should not use Zip ties to
> fasten items
> to
> > the motor mount tubes, that the plastic is abrasive enough that it
> can
> cause
> > erosion of the metal tubes from vibration, that you should use
> adel clamps
> > (rubber coated) on the motor mount tubes. However bundling wires
> with them
> > is done routinely.
> > Bill Schertz
> > KIS Cruiser # 4045
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
> >
> >
> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Aldrich"
> <sa@mwutah.com>
> > >
> > > I know the Boeing aircraft have thousands of zip ties holding
> wire
> bundles
> > > together, at least the 767 and 757 do.
> > >
> > > I have heard some say they can cause wear on the engine mount if
> used
> > > directly on the tube.
> > >
> > > Scott
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
> Of Tinne
> > > maha
> > > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
> > >
> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha"
> > > <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
> > >
> > > Do you all recommend using zip-ties to mount electrical wires?
> > > I had an A&P advise strongly against them. He said vibration
> will wear
> > > them
> > > out, independent of heat, chemical or UV exposure.
> > >
> > > Last weekend this A&P (who happened to be annualing my
> hangar-mate's
> > > certificated craft) took an interest in my project & gave me
> several
> > > 'pointers', one of them being not to use zip-ties at all, or
> atleast in
> > > areas that will be inaccessible (He recommended using adel
> clamps) One
> of
> > > the most frustrating things about this project is getting 5
> different (&
> > > sometimes contrary) answers from 3 different people whose
> opinions are
> > > presumably more qualified than my own. I don't have the time or
> other
> > > resources to check the successes/failures of every 'qualified'
> source I
> > > talk
> > >
> > > to, so how does one decide who to believe? I'm sure others have
> had
> > > similar
> > > experiences.
> > >
> > > Any input will be interesting & appreciated. Thanks,
> > >
> > >
> Grant
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
>
>
>
>
>
Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com!
Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
What??? A good use for electrical tape?? :)
Matt-
Do not archive
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bruce Green
> <mailindex@juno.com>
>
> Ty-Wraps can definately cut throught an engine mount, I have seen it. I
> am not sure if it is the Ty-Wrap of the sand or dirt that can be
> underneath it, but either way, it can cut through. Fortunately, the
> problem can be solved by using electrical tape under the wrap.
>
> On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:20:12 -0600 "Boss" <bossone@cox.net> writes:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Boss" <bossone@cox.net>
>>
>> What a bunch of happy horse kaka. For an abraisve to work it has to
>> be
>> harder than what it is to abrade and has to move relative to what it
>> is to
>> abrade. Don't tell me that a nylon tie wrap is going to cut 4130
>> steel or
>> that it is going to move when properly chinced up. Who dreamed up
>> this crap?
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "William" <wschertz@ispwest.com>
>> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
>>
>>
>> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William"
>> <wschertz@ispwest.com>
>> >
>> > What I have been told is that you should not use Zip ties to
>> fasten items
>> to
>> > the motor mount tubes, that the plastic is abrasive enough that it
>> can
>> cause
>> > erosion of the metal tubes from vibration, that you should use
>> adel clamps
>> > (rubber coated) on the motor mount tubes. However bundling wires
>> with them
>> > is done routinely.
>> > Bill Schertz
>> > KIS Cruiser # 4045
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
>> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
>> >
>> >
>> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Aldrich"
>> <sa@mwutah.com>
>> > >
>> > > I know the Boeing aircraft have thousands of zip ties holding
>> wire
>> bundles
>> > > together, at least the 767 and 757 do.
>> > >
>> > > I have heard some say they can cause wear on the engine mount if
>> used
>> > > directly on the tube.
>> > >
>> > > Scott
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>> > > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
>> Of Tinne
>> > > maha
>> > > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Zip-Ties
>> > >
>> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha"
>> > > <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
>> > >
>> > > Do you all recommend using zip-ties to mount electrical wires? I
>> had an A&P advise strongly against them. He said vibration
>> will wear
>> > > them
>> > > out, independent of heat, chemical or UV exposure.
>> > >
>> > > Last weekend this A&P (who happened to be annualing my
>> hangar-mate's
>> > > certificated craft) took an interest in my project & gave me
>> several
>> > > 'pointers', one of them being not to use zip-ties at all, or
>> atleast in
>> > > areas that will be inaccessible (He recommended using adel
>> clamps) One
>> of
>> > > the most frustrating things about this project is getting 5
>> different (&
>> > > sometimes contrary) answers from 3 different people whose
>> opinions are
>> > > presumably more qualified than my own. I don't have the time or
>> other
>> > > resources to check the successes/failures of every 'qualified'
>> source I
>> > > talk
>> > >
>> > > to, so how does one decide who to believe? I'm sure others have
>> had
>> > > similar
>> > > experiences.
>> > >
>> > > Any input will be interesting & appreciated. Thanks,
>> > >
>> > >
>> Grant
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com!
> Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|