Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:23 AM - More Lister Comments - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser!!! (Matt Dralle)
2. 03:45 AM - out of town for a few days (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 05:37 AM - Re: out of town for a few days (Bikcrzy@aol.com)
4. 07:27 AM - Re: hall effect current sensor ammeter (Eric M. Jones)
5. 08:02 AM - Re: out of town for a few days (Rob Housman)
6. 09:32 AM - Re: Out of town for a few days (Eric M. Jones)
7. 10:26 AM - Re: Re: Out of town for a few days (Leo J. Corbalis)
8. 10:47 AM - Re: out of town for a few days (Ted Palamarek)
9. 10:54 AM - Re: Re: Out of town for a few days OT (Matt Prather)
10. 02:35 PM - Cross feed voltage on Z 14 and EI VA 1 Volt/ammeter (mkejrj@comcast.net)
11. 05:11 PM - Re: hall effect current sensor ammeter (Phil Birkelbach)
12. 05:51 PM - Re: hall effect current sensor ammeter (LarryRobertHelming)
Message 1
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| Subject: | More Lister Comments - Last Official Day of List Fund |
Raiser!!!
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Well, its November 30th and that means two things... I'm 41 years old
today - your sympathy is appreciated; and its the last official day of this
year's List Fund Raiser!!! There is still plenty of time to make your
Contribution to assure your place on the List of Contributors. Also, there
are still lots of Contribution Gifts available including the very popular
List Archive CDROM, Aircraft Fuel Tester, 24 Years of the RVAtor, and the
very cool Kitlog Pro software!
Below is another awesome set of comments from listers regarding how
valuable the Lists are. Please read them over and make a Contribution to
show your support for the Lists as well!
The List Contribution web site can be found at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
------------ Even More of What Listers Are Saying... --------------
[The List] has been very helpful as I am building an RV7A.
Stan B.
Wonderful resource.
Ralph C.
I don't think I could be building my plane without the help I get from the
list.
Richard V.
Invaluable to my Kolb building.
Clay S.
Best source of light aircraft electrical information any where.
Dan O.
Great service.
Bjorn B.
The lists are certainly worth it!
Jim M.
The Lists have been and continue to be a valuable tool.
Jeff O.
Exceptional service.
Larry M.
[The List] has been very helpful, informative and entertaining.
Sterling B.
Very helpful resource.
Grant C.
I don't think I could build my 601XL without the list.
William G.
Great service to the aviation community.
John W.
I have saved a ton of money in the operation of my [aircraft].
Lee P.
Great contribution to builders everywhere!
Tom E.
[The List] is one of my nightly entertainments.
Ross S.
A great service and I hope you can keep it going!
Bob O.
My building support group.
Richard V.
Has made the operation of my aircraft much safer...
Lee P.
Now that I am close to completion of my [homebuilt], I look back
and wonder how I could ever have made it this far without [the Lists].
Jeff O.
I check the List twice daily at least.
Anthony W.
Thank you for taking care of us all with these most important Lists.
William M.
The List is very valuable to me...
Red H.
Great web site!!
Robert H.
Thanks for giving me another year of learning.
Larry M.
I don't think I'd have been able to get my project airborne without it!
Grant C.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | out of town for a few days |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
I'm off on a trip to Tucson AZ for Raytheon. Gotta go figure
out why some transistors in a new product are overheating at
51,000' . . . any guesses?
If I can access my e-mail accounts from the hotel, I'll
be on line in the evenings. Otherwise, see you all Friday
night.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: out of town for a few days |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bikcrzy@aol.com
To close to the sun? :-) JR
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: hall effect current sensor ammeter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Hall effect current sensor are available from Allegro:
http://www.allegromicro.com/hall/
They are simple to use and cheap (I think--I got mine free). They do have a
nut-ball connection which I haven't yet figured out how to attach to
anything, but the elves say they will tackle it after Santa's Christmas
orders are completed.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
Message 5
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| Subject: | out of town for a few days |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
That's easy, if the affected electronics are unpressurized and work as
expected at lower altitudes - not enough air molecules to provide adequate
heat transfer by convection. If pressurized, then you have some serious
detective work to do.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: out of town for a few days
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
I'm off on a trip to Tucson AZ for Raytheon. Gotta go figure
out why some transistors in a new product are overheating at
51,000' . . . any guesses?
If I can access my e-mail accounts from the hotel, I'll
be on line in the evenings. Otherwise, see you all Friday
night.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Out of town for a few days |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>I'm off on a trip to Tucson AZ for Raytheon. Gotta go figure
>out why some transistors in a new product are overheating at
>51,000' . . . any guesses? Bob . . .
Assuming the wax is not melting, being so close to the sun... Furthermore
assuming the requisite performance testing was done, then consider two
possibilities:
1) The T.I.D.E. (total ionizing dose effect) on the semiconductor junctions.
Remember-- every hour above 30,000 feet is the REM equivalent of one chest
photocurrents.
2) Environmental test chamber fans. The most devious sort of failure is
sometimes designed in because stirring fans in test chambers induce cooling.
When all else fails....Google it! And good luck.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
Teamwork: " A lot of people doing exactly what I say."
(Marketing exec., Citrix Corp.)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Out of town for a few days |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
If you find its too hot, try making a heatsink out of a stick on aluminum
label trimmed to fit. This worked for a whole production run.
Best
Leo Corbalis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Out of town for a few days
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
<emjones@charter.net>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
> >I'm off on a trip to Tucson AZ for Raytheon. Gotta go figure
> >out why some transistors in a new product are overheating at
> >51,000' . . . any guesses? Bob . . .
>
> Assuming the wax is not melting, being so close to the sun... Furthermore
> assuming the requisite performance testing was done, then consider two
> possibilities:
>
> 1) The T.I.D.E. (total ionizing dose effect) on the semiconductor
junctions.
> Remember-- every hour above 30,000 feet is the REM equivalent of one chest
> photocurrents.
> 2) Environmental test chamber fans. The most devious sort of failure is
> sometimes designed in because stirring fans in test chambers induce
cooling.
>
> When all else fails....Google it! And good luck.
>
> Regards,
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge MA 01550-2705
> Phone (508) 764-2072
> Email: emjones@charter.net
>
> Teamwork: " A lot of people doing exactly what I say."
> (Marketing exec., Citrix Corp.)
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | out of town for a few days |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" <temco@telusplanet.net>
Bob
Where are these transistors used. Are they a pressurized on
non pressurized environment??. If unpressurized then you do
not have the same ambient cooling. Just a thought
Ted Palamarek
Edmonton
<<<<SNIP>>>>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: out of town for a few days
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L.
Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
I'm off on a trip to Tucson AZ for Raytheon. Gotta go figure
out why some transistors in a new product are overheating at
51,000' . . . any guesses?
If I can access my e-mail accounts from the hotel, I'll
be on line in the evenings. Otherwise, see you all Friday
night.
Bob . . .
------------------------------------------------------
--
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition
>
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be
>
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the
>
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently
>
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed
>
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny
>
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes
>
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people
>
< then slip back into abject poverty.
>
<
>
< This is known as "bad luck".
>
< -Lazarus Long-
>
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
===========
===========
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other
===========
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Out of town for a few days OT |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Is the primary radiation source the sun? Is there significantly less
radiation when flying at night? Does the system fail when flying at
51,000' at night?
Matt-
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
> <emjones@charter.net>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>>I'm off on a trip to Tucson AZ for Raytheon. Gotta go figure
>>out why some transistors in a new product are overheating at
>>51,000' . . . any guesses? Bob . . .
>
> Assuming the wax is not melting, being so close to the sun...
> Furthermore assuming the requisite performance testing was done, then
> consider two possibilities:
>
> 1) The T.I.D.E. (total ionizing dose effect) on the semiconductor
> junctions. Remember-- every hour above 30,000 feet is the REM equivalent
> of one chest photocurrents.
> 2) Environmental test chamber fans. The most devious sort of failure is
> sometimes designed in because stirring fans in test chambers induce
> cooling.
>
> When all else fails....Google it! And good luck.
>
> Regards,
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge MA 01550-2705
> Phone (508) 764-2072
> Email: emjones@charter.net
>
> Teamwork: " A lot of people doing exactly what I say."
> (Marketing exec., Citrix Corp.)
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Cross feed voltage on Z 14 and EI VA 1 Volt/ammeter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: mkejrj@comcast.net
Bob and Others,
I'm installing the Z 14 electric system with 2 Alternators , 2 Busses, and 2
Batterys. In order to know theAmperage and Voltage of each system I installed
an Electronics Intl. guage... Their model VA 1. The guage is supplied with operating
power from theMain Alternator/ Battery Bus with a 2 Amp fuse.
In order to check each system independantly I also installed a 2-3 type switch
ordered from EI which they indicate is used by Twin engine aircraft to independently
moniter either Alternator. The switch has inputs from both the Main
and the Aux Shunt and enables the Pilot to select either ,but not both.
When we installed the VA 1 with the 2-3 switch we noted a back feeding of voltage
from the Main Bus to the Aux Buss in some operating configurations. Specifically
we measured 6 Volts on the Aux Buss when :
TheMain Master switch is ON
The Aux Master switch is OFF
The Cross feed switch is OFF
The VA 1 is switched to the Aux Shunt/Alternator
According to our understanding of Z 14 no power should be distributed to the
Aux system when the switches are in the configuration above and yet we measured
6 Volts.This configuration could present a problem if, for example, a Gyro
type instrument fed from the Aux Buss was, unknown to the Pilot, operating at
a reduced RPM due to a reduced Voltage.
We determined that the EI guage was cross feeding from the Main Buss (which supplies
it's power ) through the guages internal wiring and through the Aux Shunt
to the Aux Buss.
We called EI and discovered that the VA 1 is designed to be used in a system
where BOTH THE POWER TO THE GUAGE AND THE SHUNT MEASURED ARE ON THE SAME SYSTEM.
Apparently most production twin aircraft have a common Buss supplied by both
Alternators and so the VA 1 works fine for them. It could be a problem with
Z 14 when the Main and Aux Buss can be independant as outlined above.
The only "fix "for the problem that we contrived is to replace EI's 2-3 switch
with a 3 Pole, Double Throw (on/on ) type. This would supply the EI guage with
both operating power and Shunt data from the same system.
If you or any other Listers have any thoughts or solutions I would be pleased
to hear em.
Thanks,
Dick Jordan
RV 8A Finishing
N888BZ Reserved
Bob and Others,
I'm installing the Z 14 electric system with 2 Alternators, 2 Busses, and 2 Batterys.
In order to know theAmperage and Voltage of each system I installed an
Electronics Intl. guage... Their model VA 1. The guage is supplied with operating
power from theMain Alternator/ Battery Bus with a 2 Amp fuse.
In order to check each system independantly I also installed a 2-3 type switch
ordered from EI which they indicate is used by Twin engine aircraft to independently
moniter either Alternator. The switch has inputs fromboth the Mainand
the Aux Shunt and enables the Pilot to select either ,but not both.
When we installed the VA 1 with the 2-3 switch we noted a back feeding of voltage
from the Main Bus to the Aux Buss in some operating configurations. Specifically
we measured 6 Volts on the Aux Buss when :
TheMain Master switch is ON
The Aux Master switch is OFF
The Cross feed switch is OFF
The VA 1 is switched to the Aux Shunt/Alternator
According to our understanding of Z 14 no power should be distributed to the Aux
system when the switches are in the configuration above and yet we measured
6 Volts.This configuration could present a problem if, for example, a Gyro type
instrument fed from the Aux Buss was, unknown to the Pilot, operating at a
reduced RPM due to a reduced Voltage.
We determined that the EI guage was cross feeding from the Main Buss (which supplies
it's power ) through the guages internal wiring and through the Aux Shunt
to the Aux Buss.
We called EI and discovered that the VA 1 is designed to be used in a system where
BOTH THE POWER TO THE GUAGE AND THE SHUNT MEASUREDARE ON THE SAME SYSTEM.
Apparently most production twin aircraft have a common Buss supplied by both
Alternators and so the VA 1 works fine for them. It could be a problem with Z
14 when the Main and Aux Buss can be independant as outlined above.
The only "fix "for the problem that we contrived is to replace EI's 2-3 switch
with a 3 Pole, Double Throw (on/on ) type. This would supply the EI guage with
both operating power and Shunt data from the same system.
If you or any other Listers have any thoughts or solutions I would be pleased
to hear em.
Thanks,
Dick Jordan
RV 8A Finishing
N888BZ Reserved
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: hall effect current sensor ammeter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Phil Birkelbach <phil@petrasoft.net>
Grand Rapids supplies a hall effect sensor with their engine monitors.
Phil
thomas a. sargent wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@comcast.net>
>
>I have been looking for an ammeter that uses a Hall effect sensor
>(instead of a shunt) to use to show battery charge/discharge current.
>There don't seem to be any in the aircraft instrument catalogs. I did
>some web searching and found these nifty sensors that run on 12-15v and
>output 1 ma for each amp sensed. It looks like you could use this
>instead of a shunt with just the approriate choice of sense resistor and
>connect it to an ordinary battery meter from ACS or a generic LCD panel
>meter. Any reason this wouldn't work?
>
>http://www.fwbell.com/stm/content.asp?page_id=673
>
>Before the flames start, I realize that shunts are cheap and pretty fool
>proof (these sensors cost about $36 from Newark Electronics). However,
>shunts do add a bit of resistance and a couple more connections, which
>is bad to put in a 200 amp circuit, which your battery is in. The Hall
>effect sensor does not connect electrically to the battery cable. The
>cable just goes thru it. Hall effect also rates high on the
>slick-o-meter. I note that my VM1000 uses a hall effect sensor on the
>alternator B lead, so Vision Micro thought a Hall effect sensor was a
>good idea.
>
>I've emailed F.W. Bell to ask what happens if you over load the 50amp
>sensor with 200 amps. I suspect that, since this is a nulling device, it
>just rails its output current at 50ma and sits there.
>
>--
>Tom Sargent
>RV-6A
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: hall effect current sensor ammeter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
So does ACS2002.
Indiana Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Phil Birkelbach
<phil@petrasoft.net>
>
> Grand Rapids supplies a hall effect sensor with their engine monitors.
>
> Phil
>
> thomas a. sargent wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent"
<sarg314@comcast.net>
> >
> >I have been looking for an ammeter that uses a Hall effect sensor
> >(instead of a shunt) to use to show battery charge/discharge current.
> >There don't seem to be any in the aircraft instrument catalogs. I did
> >some web searching and found these nifty sensors that run on 12-15v and
> >output 1 ma for each amp sensed. It looks like you could use this
> >instead of a shunt with just the approriate choice of sense resistor and
> >connect it to an ordinary battery meter from ACS or a generic LCD panel
> >meter. Any reason this wouldn't work?
> >
> >http://www.fwbell.com/stm/content.asp?page_id=673
> >
> >Before the flames start, I realize that shunts are cheap and pretty fool
> >proof (these sensors cost about $36 from Newark Electronics). However,
> >shunts do add a bit of resistance and a couple more connections, which
> >is bad to put in a 200 amp circuit, which your battery is in. The Hall
> >effect sensor does not connect electrically to the battery cable. The
> >cable just goes thru it. Hall effect also rates high on the
> >slick-o-meter. I note that my VM1000 uses a hall effect sensor on the
> >alternator B lead, so Vision Micro thought a Hall effect sensor was a
> >good idea.
> >
> >I've emailed F.W. Bell to ask what happens if you over load the 50amp
> >sensor with 200 amps. I suspect that, since this is a nulling device, it
> >just rails its output current at 50ma and sits there.
> >
> >--
> >Tom Sargent
> >RV-6A
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