Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:56 AM - RMI MicroEncoder (brucem@att.net)
2. 05:12 AM - Re: Trim Runaway (Ken)
3. 05:41 AM - Re: Trim Runaway (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
4. 06:42 AM - EFI system wiring . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 09:57 AM - Re: Power Contactors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 01:35 PM - Canard Pusher Grounding Scheme (matronics.20.swinn@xoxy.net)
7. 01:53 PM - Re: Canard Pusher Grounding Scheme (Matt Prather)
8. 02:38 PM - Re: Power Contactors (Drdavevk30@aol.com)
9. 03:32 PM - Re: Canard Pusher Grounding Scheme (Eric M. Jones)
10. 03:53 PM - Re: Trim Runaway (Eric M. Jones)
11. 04:09 PM - Re: Power Contactors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 04:19 PM - Re: Re: Trim Runaway (Jon Finley)
13. 06:25 PM - Re: ARINC 429 port and general serial ?'s (Brian Lloyd)
14. 11:05 PM - Re: Power Contactors (Drdavevk30@aol.com)
15. 11:42 PM - Re: Power Contactors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RMI MicroEncoder |
0.50 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary
0.01 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: brucem@att.net
Those not using Dynon may be interested in my eBay listing for a RMI MicroEncoder kit. See http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26439&item=4512793073&rd=1
FWIW, Bruce McGregor
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
Those not using Dynon may be interested in my eBay listing for a RMI MicroEncoder kit. See http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=26439item=4512793073rd=1
FWIW, Bruce McGregor
<!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Trim Runaway |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on juliet.albedo.net
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Aircraft where a stuck trim will kill you usually use a dual trim switch
(and dual relays if appropriate). Your thumb pushes them both
simultaneously but removing your thumb stops the trimming unless two
things stick. Similar techniques are used to counter a single actuator
failure so that a single actuator can't overpower an off and locked
actuator.
Ken
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
>><emjones@charter.net>
>>
>>I have a question regarding the spooky runaway trim--
>>
>>My suspicion is that stuck buttons on the joystick are the culprit.
>>
>>Does anyone have the real gospel on the problem?
>>
>>Regards,
>>Eric M. Jones
>>www.PerihelionDesign.com
>>113 Brentwood Drive
>>Southbridge MA 01550-2705
>>Phone (508) 764-2072
>>Email: emjones@charter.net
>>
>>
>>
Message 3
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
I had a spooky runaway trim on my first flight. TURNED OUT TO BE MY DUMB
A#@!.
Story here:
http://www2.mstewart.net:8080/michael/rv/flying/firstflight/firstflight.
htm
Mike
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
M. Jones
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Trim Runaway
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
<emjones@charter.net>
I have a question regarding the spooky runaway trim--
My suspicion is that stuck buttons on the joystick are the culprit.
Does anyone have the real gospel on the problem?
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual
who perceives a solution and is willing to take command.
Very often, that individual is crazy.
--Dave Barry
Message 4
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| Subject: | EFI system wiring . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>Comments/Questions: Bob, I have ordered your guide, but I have a pressing
>question. What is the most effective way to supply poer to 4 injectors
>from a single feed source? My initial thoughts are to use Raychem Solder
>Splices
How long are the wires from the common joint out to each injector?
Do you have any sense of how often an injector fails shorted?
The reason for these questions is to deduce the value of using
a fused supply lead to each injector as the wires branch out
from the common point. I've seen a number of diagrams wherein
the designer has incorporated a 4-fuse array to protect the
wires extended to each injector. The notion is that one wire
could become faulted and take out one injector but leaving the
other 3 intact. The engine would run poorly but it would still
run.
If you subscribe to the fuse-per-injector philosophy, consider
using a fuse block like:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/fuseblks.jpg
I've seen some rather complicated switching arrangements
for protecting and controlling the fuel-injected engine but
I'm mystified as to why the designer needs to do more than
simply drive one of these fuse-blocks with an ON/OFF switch
and branch out from the fuse block to various loads in the
system. Do you have a recommended wiring diagram for
your engine? Can you copy it and mail it to me?
A blue PIDG splice will handle 3, 20AWG wires in each end.
This device offers a handy and secure means for spreading
one feeder out as many as five directions. Soldering the
joint and covering with heatshrink is equally effective.
I think your decision-making opportunities may be more
involved than deciding how to branch 4 wires out from a
single feeder.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Power Contactors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:55 PM 12/15/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder"
><jschroeder@perigee.net>
>
>Bob -
>
>Could you also post the .DWG Auto CAD file.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/z14h_EV200.DWG
Bob . . .
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Canard Pusher Grounding Scheme |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: matronics.20.swinn@xoxy.net
Hello! This is my first posting to the AeroElectric list. I've been
following the web site and studying the 'Connection for some time now. I
have noticed that the 'Conduit' style grounding scheme for canards has been
removed from the 'Connection in the latest revision. I have an older
version that includes a copper pipe grounding scheme that is no longer
mentioned in the latest rev of the grounding chapter.
I am wondering if this scheme is no longer recommended? I tried to find
discussion in the archives as to why this scheme was removed, but was not
able to find any. More than likely my search was defective.
I am at the beginning of the electrical chapter on the Long-Ez project and
can go either way at this point, conduit or #2 wire as described in the
Revision 10 of the connection. I'm still drawing schematics.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Canard Pusher Grounding Scheme |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Here's a quote from the archives:
" The first ground system I described in the 'Connection
15 years ago focused on canard pushers and indeed, a
copper conduit was suggested as doubling for a wire
pathway and system ground. A number of builders used
this material with generally good success electrically.
It is a labor intensive technique. We deduced later that
running all wires together in the same bundle down one
side of the airplane produced a similarly "quiet" system.
What you propose would work. I'd recommend you run all
wiring down the same side of the aircraft so as to avoid
generating strong magnetic fields in the cockpit due to
any un-shared electron paths between right and left sides.
If it were my airplane, I'd ditch the vacuum pump, run
an all-electric system and use plain ol' wires to
carry the electrons.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . ."
Regards,
Matt-
VE N34RD, C150 N714BK
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: matronics.20.swinn@xoxy.net
>
> Hello! This is my first posting to the AeroElectric list. I've been
> following the web site and studying the 'Connection for some time now.
> I have noticed that the 'Conduit' style grounding scheme for canards has
> been removed from the 'Connection in the latest revision. I have an
> older version that includes a copper pipe grounding scheme that is no
> longer mentioned in the latest rev of the grounding chapter.
>
> I am wondering if this scheme is no longer recommended? I tried to find
> discussion in the archives as to why this scheme was removed, but was
> not able to find any. More than likely my search was defective.
>
> I am at the beginning of the electrical chapter on the Long-Ez project
> and can go either way at this point, conduit or #2 wire as described in
> the Revision 10 of the connection. I'm still drawing schematics.
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Power Contactors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Drdavevk30@aol.com
Dear Bob:
Thank you so much for the modified Z-14 drawings with the EV200 contactors.
Just to be complete can I also use the EV200's for the starter contactor and
the ground external power contactor? With/without the extra diodes?
Dr. Dave
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Canard Pusher Grounding Scheme |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
I have a vested interest in this---but if it were my airplane I would look
at the Super-2-CCA FatWire.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: matronics.20.swinn@xoxy.net
>
> Hello! This is my first posting to the AeroElectric list. I've been
> following the web site and studying the 'Connection for some time now.
> I have noticed that the 'Conduit' style grounding scheme for canards has
> been removed from the 'Connection in the latest revision. I have an
> older version that includes a copper pipe grounding scheme that is no
> longer mentioned in the latest rev of the grounding chapter.
>
> I am wondering if this scheme is no longer recommended? I tried to find
> discussion in the archives as to why this scheme was removed, but was
> not able to find any. More than likely my search was defective.
>
> I am at the beginning of the electrical chapter on the Long-Ez project
> and can go either way at this point, conduit or #2 wire as described in
> the Revision 10 of the connection. I'm still drawing schematics.
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | RE: Trim Runaway |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
<mstewart@iss.net>
Mike--I can't seem to open the story. Please confirm that the URL is okay.
Runaway trim--I asked this question to spur my thinking about how to handle
the varieties of trim malfunctions. This is aimed at the MAC-RAC trim. Very
common, and pretty good for the money.
A few years ago I converted this two-button trim to a true servo type that
reads a potentiometer. I have designed a tiny little adapter box that allows
any voltage divider potentiometer to set the position of the MAC-RAC trim
servo.
Then I started to add features.
1) I added an "In Transit" line to show an LED on the instrument panel when
the trim motor is ON.
2) Then I added a line to feed the MAC-RAC LED bar graph (since I am using
the internal pot for feedback).
3) Then I figured--I would put in a circuit to send the trim back to some
set position if the power lead or ground or control lead to the trim opened.
That is to say, if you disconnected the trim servo, the servo will return to
neutral (or wherever).
I would appreciate comments on this. I've got a few square millimeters left
on the PCB on two more pins available in the socket.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Power Contactors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:35 PM 12/16/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Drdavevk30@aol.com
>
>Dear Bob:
>
>Thank you so much for the modified Z-14 drawings with the EV200 contactors.
>Just to be complete can I also use the EV200's for the starter contactor and
>the ground external power contactor? With/without the extra diodes?
>
>Dr. Dave
Yes. I forgot about the contactor at the other end of the drawing.
I've updated all the EV200 drawings at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr to cover the starter
as well. Yes, you can use this for a ground power contactor
to but why? I'm not sure you want to use one as a starter contactor
either. The low current consumption feature doesn't do you any
good for their ground power or start modes . . . and these
contactors are a lot more expensive than the stuff offered
by B&C and others.
I think if it were my airplane, I'd stay with the el-cheapos
in those two slots. You're not going to get any return on
investment for putting the gold-standards in those functions.
Bob . . .
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 12
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| Subject: | RE: Trim Runaway |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jon Finley" <jon@finleyweb.net>
Eric,
Looks like that URL need a ".htm" added to the end.
Jon Finley
N90MG Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 DD - 467 Hrs. TT
Apple Valley, Minnesota
http://www.FinleyWeb.net/Q2Subaru
DO NOT ARCHIVE
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Eric M. Jones
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 5:57 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Trim Runaway
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
> --> <emjones@charter.net>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS
> --> Atlanta)"
> <mstewart@iss.net>
>
> Mike--I can't seem to open the story. Please confirm that the
> URL is okay.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: ARINC 429 port and general serial ?'s |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Dec 15, 2004, at 1:43 PM, Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS
> Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
>
> Need help in identifying data transfer between units.
>
> I think I have too many computers in my panel. I need an explanation of
> the ARINC 429 data stream. Who puts it together, and who wants it, and
> for what?
Perhaps the first answer is why you might want it. The nice thing
about ARINC 429 is that it multiplexes a lot of different data on to
one set of data lines. In the olden days you had separate wiring for
almost every knob in the aircraft. For instance, the heading bug and
OBS each required four wires. Each needle and flag in an indicator
required two wires. Slaving information for your remote compass
required four wires. The horizontal gyro needs five wires for its
synchro output. Now imagine a remotely slaved HSI with CDI, VDI, a
flag for each, heading bug, OBS, and remote horizontal gyro. Now you
know why it has a wire bundle coming out the back that is as thick as
your thumb.
All that can be carried on a single pair of wires when using ARINC 429.
Instead of each set of wires carrying its own special signal, now you
can digitally transmit the same information and share the same pair of
wires for all the data. The wires carry the electronic message
equivalent of "heading 045 degrees," "OBS set to 317 degrees," "CDI is
1.5 dots left," "GS needle is one dot low," "ground track is 043
degrees," "altitude is 4,575 feet," "altitude hold set to 4,500 feet,"
etc.
Once you get an idea of the messages that *can* be sent over an ARINC
429 data stream you can begin to get an idea of who generates it and
who might want it.
> I have a GRT EFIS display as primary EFIS, MX20, 430 for com, 330 for
> traffic, BMA G3 lite for backup.
>
>
> Care to explain the difference between the serial data streams and the
> ARINC? Are all serial streams created equal?
No, they are not. There are many different ways to transmit data
serially. RS-232 is one physical specification and then you can layer
things like async, HDLC/SDLC, and other higher-layer protocols on top
of that. ARINC 429 has its own electrical and data format that is not
like anything else (surprise!). Ethernet is yet another serial
protocol. There are boatloads of ways to send data serially and many
of them are incompatible.
> The 330 for example, in the installation instructions, has 4 arinc in
> ports and serves as a "concentrator" to then send out to the 430. What
> is in the ARINC data stream that the 430 would want?
Well, I can imagine the 430 and MX20 wanting heading data from the
slaved gyro compass to orient the moving map display. You want the
moving map to orient to your heading so the map on the screen looks
like the ground even if there is a wind correction angle. The 430,
also being a VOR receiver, wants to know what your OBS is set to. If
there is traffic that information needs to find its way to the
display(s).
> It says the EFIS
> selected course would come into the 330 from the EFIS, then go out on
> the ARINC data stream to the 430. Why would the 430 want the course
> heading from the EFIS? My understanding is that the 430 is king when it
> come to driving position information. I have no clue what the 430 would
> do with a heading number from the EFIS.
As I indicated earlier, you want it for map orientation.
> I am having difficulty resolving who is doing what and why with all
> this
> data passing around. Serial this, ARINC that. ARGH!
Well, neither ARINC 429 nor RS-232 (NMEA-0183 for that matter) are
designed to allow two data sources to coexist. Consider that your EFIS
is providing heading and OBS data while your GPS is providing position
and track data to your MX20. You have two data sources and one data
sink. Either the MX20 must have a separate input for each device that
sources data (impractical) or you can have various devices accepting
multiple inputs and then combine them on a single output. A device
that does this is a 'concentrator'.
ARINC 429 is actually being phased out. The 'only one talker' rule is
a real pain-in-the-butt, especially given that having multiple talkers
and listeners on the same buss is common now. Ethernet is a good
example. Airbus has standardized on switched 100Mbps Ethernet as the
standard flight instrumentation buss now. And ARINC 429's data rate of
100Kbps makes it 1000 times slower than Ethernet.
This is pretty simplistic but hopefully it provides a glimmer of why
one might want to use ARINC 429.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Power Contactors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Drdavevk30@aol.com
In a message dated 12/16/2004 7:10:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
b.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
> >Dear Bob:
> >
> >Thank you so much for the modified Z-14 drawings with the EV200 contactors.
> >Just to be complete can I also use the EV200's for the starter contactor
> and
> >the ground external power contactor? With/without the extra diodes?
> >
> >Dr. Dave
>
>
> Yes. I forgot about the contactor at the other end of the drawing.
> I've updated all the EV200 drawings at:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr to cover the starter
> as well. Yes, you can use this for a ground power contactor
> to but why? I'm not sure you want to use one as a starter contactor
> either. The low current consumption feature doesn't do you any
> good for their ground power or start modes . . . and these
> contactors are a lot more expensive than the stuff offered
> by B&C and others.
>
> I think if it were my airplane, I'd stay with the el-cheapos
> in those two slots. You're not going to get any return on
> investment for putting the gold-standards in those functions.
>
> Bob . .
Dear Bob:
For some unknown reason I can't open the latest modified Z-14 diagram in .dwg
with my version of Autocad. Could you post it in .pdf format please. Thanks
so much.
Dr. Dave
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Power Contactors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:05 AM 12/17/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Drdavevk30@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 12/16/2004 7:10:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>b.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
> > >Dear Bob:
> > >
> > >Thank you so much for the modified Z-14 drawings with the EV200
> contactors.
> > >Just to be complete can I also use the EV200's for the starter contactor
> > and
> > >the ground external power contactor? With/without the extra diodes?
> > >
> > >Dr. Dave
> >
> >
> > Yes. I forgot about the contactor at the other end of the drawing.
> > I've updated all the EV200 drawings at:
> >
> > http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr to cover the starter
> > as well. Yes, you can use this for a ground power contactor
> > to but why? I'm not sure you want to use one as a starter contactor
> > either. The low current consumption feature doesn't do you any
> > good for their ground power or start modes . . . and these
> > contactors are a lot more expensive than the stuff offered
> > by B&C and others.
> >
> > I think if it were my airplane, I'd stay with the el-cheapos
> > in those two slots. You're not going to get any return on
> > investment for putting the gold-standards in those functions.
> >
> > Bob . .
>
>Dear Bob:
>
>For some unknown reason I can't open the latest modified Z-14 diagram in .dwg
>with my version of Autocad. Could you post it in .pdf format please. Thanks
>so much.
I rewrote it in R14 format. Try the .dwg file again. The
two EV200 .pdf files are 8.5x11 pages to be taped together to
make a big and more readable drawing.
Bob . . .
--
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