Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:16 AM - Re: OV and Vans 60amp Alternator was 55 Amp Suzuki Alternator (John Crate)
2. 05:40 AM - Re: Re: Starter Contactor (Ken)
3. 06:01 AM - Re: Re: whalen strobe wire size (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:32 AM - Re: Starter engaged lamp wiring was Re: (Charlie Kuss)
5. 07:57 AM - whalen strobe wire size ()
6. 08:29 AM - Re: Starter engaged lamp wiring was Re: Starter Contactor (John Schroeder)
7. 08:29 PM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 12/20/04 (Mcculleyja@aol.com)
8. 09:45 PM - Re: Starter engaged lamp wiring was Re: (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 09:51 PM - Re: SD-8 and battery requirements (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: OV and Vans 60amp Alternator was 55 Amp Suzuki |
Alternator
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Crate" <john.crate@encode.com>
I emailed Bob Nuckolls directly on this particular question and this is the
reply I received back from him.
John
Figure Z-24 will be modified to ADD a Transorb (fat zener)
across the B-lead to ground so as to catch the "load dump"
transient that will take out the regulator on some alternators.
As far as I know, the alternator Van's sells is the only
one vulnerable to the event. It's easy to avoid, there's
no reason to turn an alternator OFF while under load. We
don't do this in the normal course of operating an airplane.
Alternator comes on right after engine start up and goes
off just before shutdown . . . under every day operations
there is no risk.
I'll suggest that you can move ahead with incorporation
of Figure Z-24 in your installation . . . by the time
you're ready to fly, we'll have published the "fix".
It may well be that your alternator is not so vulnerable.
If it's a factory stock take-off, it's probably
built to withstand the load-dump phenomenon . . .
I'mg only guessing, but one explanation for their
experience could be based on the use of overhauled
alternators with after-market regulators not
designed to withstand the load-dump phenomenon.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobby Hester" <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: OV and Vans 60amp Alternator was 55 Amp Suzuki
Alternator
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bobby Hester
> <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
>
> John Crate wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Crate"
>><john.crate@encode.com>
>>
>>
>>Question 2
>>My plan is to use the OVM-14 with the requisite contactor for over-voltage
>>protection as per the Aeroelectric book/drawings. Reading a warning on
>>Van's web page about over-voltage protection on their 60 amp internally
>>regulated alternator now has me worried. In bright red letters it states:
>>Warning!
>>The internally regulated 60 ampere alternator should not be used with
>>overvoltage protection systems. If you open the charging circuit while it
>>is
>>in operation, it will destroy the regulator.
>>I am now confused more than normal. Is this something I should be worried
>>about with respect to my particular alternator and planned application?
>>
>>
> John did you get any responses to this question? I'd like to here them!
>
> --
> Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
> Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
> RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
>
>
> ---
>
>
---
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Starter Contactor |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on juliet.albedo.net
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
If you have normal voltage (charging) after start then all is well.
A stuck starter will surely result in low voltage when you check it
after start as the starter will be drawing more current than the
alternator can produce at idle. Thus the voltage will be lower than
normal. Turning on additional loads will depress the voltage even further.
If you have a battery ammeter, it will not be showing a normal charge
current as the alternator output will be going to the starter rather
than charging the battery. Notice I said abnormal rather than high or
low. I would expect the battery to be discharging at idle but the
battery ammeter may or may not be wired to sense starter current which
can tend to confuse someone who doesn't know his system. In some systems
the ammeter may show a reassuringly high alternator current going into
the battery terminal while an even larger current is coming out of the
battery terminal on a different wire and going to the starter. I guess
this is part of the reason why I prefer a voltmeter over
ammeters/loadmeters if one is only going to have one electrical meter.
.
If you have an alternator loadmeter it will show the alternator
producing max current. That high current will increase as you go above
idle but will not cut back as it normally does since the voltage won't
get up to the voltage regulating point unless you have a very large
alternator. So the meter reads abnormally high alternator output current.
Ken
>> Would anything show on the
>>voltmeter or ammeter? I have wired in a "STRTR PWRD" annunciator that senses
>>power downstream of the starter relay, and hoped that it would stay lit if
>>the starter hung up.
>>
>>
>
> A loadmeter would show an extra-ordinary load on the alternator.
> Some spam cans have STARTER ENERGIZED lights that monitor downstream
> side of contactor.
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: whalen strobe wire size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:13 PM 12/20/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Joel Jacobs" <jj@sdf.lonestar.org>
>
>Since you bumped this thread a couple times and none have answered I'll give
>it a shot. I don't think the wire size is too important here. The duty
>cycle is low and the power to the strobe cannot be more than the power to
>the power supply so the same gauge you used to wire to the supply would
>surely work between the supply and the strobe. Actually the average current
>to the strobe tube is likely much less because the voltage is high. I made
>a cable for mine that is about 3 feet long with 24ga and it's fine.
>That being said, I think considerations more important than gage are
>insulation ratings and shielding. What I used was just plain old 600v and
>it's working but I'm keeping my eye out for some higher voltage stuff - I'd
>be more comfortable with 1kv or more..
>Joel Jacobs
Good answer Joel . . . This came up some time back and a responder
said he'd substituted a shielded, twisted trio of 22AWG wires in
his strobe system with no OBSERVABLE ill effects. I suspect if
we explored the peak currents flowing during flash time at each
bulb, we would find that 22AWG wire did indeed have more drop
but the system runs at about 350 volts. Assuming a 10A pulse
on 15' of wire at 16 milliohms/foot then the round trip voltage
loss would be on the order of 5 volts of drop. 5 volts out of
a total of 350 volts ain't bad.
The same scenario at 14 volts is obviously worse . . . 5 volts
out of 14 would cause a very observable degredation in performance
of an accessory.
I think we can assure Bill that the wire size is not critical.
I'll further suggest that unless he has access to wire by the
foot from a supplier that he might be better off buying a
kit from Whelan. Warehouse suppliers want to sell you a
500' spool as a minimum purchase.
B&C has shielded 22AWG trio for pretty cheap as I recall.
Steinair probably does too.
Bob . . .
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bill and Marsha" <docyukon@ptcnet.net>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: whalen strobe wire size
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill and Marsha"
><docyukon@ptcnet.net>
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill and Marsha" <docyukon@ptcnet.net>
> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: whalen strobe wire size
> >
> >
> > > How do you calculate wire size for flash tubes? I'm useing a HDACF
> > > Whalen power suply with A610 wingtip tubes and a A500 series taillight
> > > assy. Max. joules will be 42. Thanks Bill S. Pulsar III
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>--
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>
>
>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
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Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Starter engaged lamp wiring was Re: |
Starter Contactor
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net> Starter
Contactor
Bob,
Thanks for the reminder to add this warning lamp to my Main Power
Distribution schematic. Please tell me where the I terminal connects
internally on the Ford style starter relay you mentioned earlier? Is it
wired to the output contact or to the primary coil winding?
Charlie Kuss
>snipped
> It's important that one use a REAL starter contactor
> (intermittent duty) and it's a good idea to put a warning
> light on the contactor's "I" terminal as suggested
> in:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/s702wire.jpg
>
> Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | whalen strobe wire size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Bill and Marsha"
<docyukon@ptcnet.net>
<<How do you calculate wire size for flash tubes? I'm useing a HDACF
Whalen power suply with A610 wingtip tubes and a A500 series taillight
assy. Max. joules will be 42. Thanks Bill S. Pulsar III>>
12/21/2004
Hello Bill S. Are you absolutely determined to not use the wire (cable)
that Whelen provides for this specific purpose? If so, why?
OC
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Starter engaged lamp wiring was Re: Starter Contactor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Bob -
Is it also wise to put a fuse link in the wire attached to the "I"
terminal? It would be attached to the I terminal itself and then to the
wire itself.
Thanks,
John
>
>> snipped
>> It's important that one use a REAL starter contactor
>> (intermittent duty) and it's a good idea to put a warning
>> light on the contactor's "I" terminal as suggested
>> in:
>>
>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/s702wire.jpg
>>
>> Bob . . .
>
>
--
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 12/20/04 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mcculleyja@aol.com
In a message dated 12/21/04 2:57:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, -->
AeroElectric-List message posted by: <swmat@cox.net> writes:
>(SNIP)The SD-8 alternator cannot be utilized without a battery (I searched
the
> archives, msg #11464). In the event of a battery 'open' failure the
> panel would remain dark even with two alternators aboard. (SNIP)
I may be mis-understanding the above statement with respect to your overall
design, but FWIW, I operate an SD-8 alternator in a single battery system and
have added a 33,000 mfd capacitor across the output to act as a simulated
"battery" in parallel with the real battery. In both ground and flight tests I
have found that the SD-8 output is unaffected by turning off the battery
contactor. Of course the battery no longer receives a charge, but the buss and
all
loads continue as normal so long as the demand is within the SD-8 capability.
Whether this has some downside aspect for long term operation, I would be
interested in hearing some input. I am not planning to depend on this in my case
but perhaps in a short term emergency it could save some consternation.
Jim McCulley
Tailwind
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Starter engaged lamp wiring was Re: |
Starter Contactor
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
Starter Contactor
At 09:33 AM 12/21/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss
><chaztuna@adelphia.net> Starter Contactor
>
>Bob,
> Thanks for the reminder to add this warning lamp to my Main Power
>Distribution schematic. Please tell me where the I terminal connects
>internally on the Ford style starter relay you mentioned earlier? Is it
>wired to the output contact or to the primary coil winding?
>Charlie Kuss
It's a tiny output contact . . . when the contactor closes,
both FAT terminals and the "I" terminal are all connected
together. When the contactor is de-energized, both fat
terminals and the "I" terminal are isolated. Hence, if
the contactor sticks, the "I" terminal will still be hot
and light the STARTER ENGAGED LIGHT.
Of course, you should use an in-line fuse or fusible
like 24AWG driving a 20AWG lead to the lamp fixture.
Bob . . .
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: SD-8 and battery requirements |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:28 PM 12/21/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mcculleyja@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 12/21/04 2:57:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, -->
>AeroElectric-List message posted by: <swmat@cox.net> writes:
>
> >(SNIP)The SD-8 alternator cannot be utilized without a battery (I searched
>the
> > archives, msg #11464). In the event of a battery 'open' failure the
> > panel would remain dark even with two alternators aboard. (SNIP)
>
>I may be mis-understanding the above statement with respect to your overall
>design, but FWIW, I operate an SD-8 alternator in a single battery system and
>have added a 33,000 mfd capacitor across the output to act as a simulated
>"battery" in parallel with the real battery. In both ground and flight
>tests I
>have found that the SD-8 output is unaffected by turning off the battery
>contactor. Of course the battery no longer receives a charge, but the
>buss and all
>loads continue as normal so long as the demand is within the SD-8
>capability.
>Whether this has some downside aspect for long term operation, I would be
>interested in hearing some input. I am not planning to depend on this in
>my case
>but perhaps in a short term emergency it could save some consternation.
The last time I looked at an SD-8 regulator, it needed a battery
to start but would run after that should the battery become
disconnected . . . and of course, the big capacitor helps smooth
out the horrible ripple on the SD-8's single-phase rectifier.
Given that all good OBAM aircraft owners are going to capacity
check or replace the battery annually, likelihood of loosing
the battery is on the same order as loosing prop bolts. The
weakest link in battery system is the wiring to the posts. Use
soft, supper-flexible cables and Belville washers to hold battery
connection tension. I belive these are supplied with new batteries
having lead posts.
Figure Z-13 featuring a well maintained battery will be
VERY reliable compared to the spam cans that our brothers
are flying . . . IFR and all.
Bob . . .
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