Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:25 AM - Smoke test failed (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
2. 06:29 AM - Re: E-mail Contact Request (D Fritz)
3. 06:51 AM - Re: push-to-test (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 07:12 AM - Re: Z13 (rd2@evenlink.com)
5. 07:59 AM - Avoiding Ignition Noise (f1rocket@comcast.net)
6. 08:12 AM - Re: Avoiding Ignition Noise (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 08:27 AM - Re: Service ceiling of batteries? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 11:30 AM - Re: bnc 90 fittings in the tray (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 11:32 AM - Re: Z13 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 02:19 PM - Re: Service ceiling of batteries? (Eric M. Jones)
11. 03:59 PM - Re: BNC 90 fittings in the tray (Charlie Kuss)
12. 06:25 PM - Re: push-to-test (Robert McCallum)
13. 06:25 PM - Need help with sw (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
14. 06:49 PM - Re: Need help with sw (Robert McCallum)
15. 06:50 PM - Re: Need help with sw (David Chalmers)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Smoke test failed |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Well, While doing a circuit test last night, I hooked power to the
Garmin 430 nav and gps circuit, and psssttt, smoke and smell. ARGH!! OK
so it was the only thing hooked up with power, which all worked on the
bench. The only thing I could find was a 232 port shorted to ground.
Would this smoke the 232 serial circuit in the 430? Any chance the
other 232 circuits still work? The unit still powers up and so forth.
I know Im gonna have to send it in, but it would be nice to finish
testing it in the panel before I do.
Thanks for the help.
Mike
Do not archive.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: E-mail Contact Request |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: D Fritz <dfritzj@yahoo.com>
You might try this site for circuit breakers that plug
directly into the bussman busses:
www.waytekwire.com
I believe these circuit breakers are used in the
automotive industry where a circuit breaker is called
for and the busses are used. Perhaps Bob can comment
on their suitability for the alternator control
application in his designs.
Regards,
Dan Fritz
Velocity RG
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: push-to-test |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:10 AM 12/27/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert McCallum
><robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
>
>With all due respect Bob this isn't necessarily true, depending upon
>which specific lamp holder is employed here. The three connections to a
>simple push to test lamp socket are: 1; to the "shell" of the lamp
>socket. 2; to the "centre contact" of the lamp socket. 3; to the
>"push-to-test" switch which becomes connected to the centre contact when
>pressed. i.e. in the test state. Now if you were to wire this
>particular type of lamp holder with the "ground" wire on the centre pin,
>the "signal" wire ( made live via the circuit you wish to have
>notification of) to the lamp shell and your "push to test" pin powered
>from the buss via a fuse, then when you "press to test" you will be
>directly connecting the live buss to the grounded centre pin of the
>socket resulting in a dead short. This will blow the fuse as Kenneth
>described but the light itself will work properly if the "test" feature
>is not pressed. If the socket is wired correctly with the ground wire on
>the shell, then the light will also work correctly but the press to test
>will now apply buss power via the fuse to the lamp, testing its
>function, though the signal wire may not otherwise be powered. If the
>lamp holder is more sophisticated with a double throw feature to the
>push to test then the short will not happen, but the simplest of push to
>test sockets simply attach the "test" wire to the "signal" pin via a
>SPST switch which can result in the symptoms Kenneth experienced. In the
>more sophisticated lamp holders which feature SPDT switching then of
>course your statement is correct and he could not blow the fuse this way.
The type of fixture you describe wouldn't be very popular with
systems designers. Initiating the PTT feature would have a potential
for back-feeding a lamp's signal system with PTT power . . . a potential
for many unintended consequences. The MS25041 fixture has a pure
SPDT switch on the shell side of the lamp, the center contact
is hard wired to terminal 1 as depicted in:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/MS25041_PTT_Fixture.gif
Initiating the PTT feature disconnects the shell from terminal
2 and moves it to terminal 3.
I note that the terminal numbering convention called out in
my article at:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf
. . . is contrary to the configuration cited in the sketch
above. Terminals 1 and 2 are reversed both on the schematic
-AND- the rear view of the lamp fixture. It would still
function properly if any numbers on the back of the lamp
fixture were simply ignored and only drawing data was
used. I note that about half of the MS25041 fixtures
in my drawers have numbers physically stamped on the back . . .
these conform to the sketch cited above.
I probably had one of the un-numbered devices in hand
when I did the drawing for the article and assigned my
own convention. Something to add to the go-fix-it-list.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
Hi Bob,
Appendix Z at the URL given below is dated 11/01 (bottom right of each
page, 22 pages total). My paper edition came with Appendix Z dated 12/02
(also 22 pages). Which App Z is the most current one? (should be the web
one, but based on the date it doesn't look that way) Please clarify. Thanks.
Rumen
P.S. Wouldn't it be a good idea to add the revision number on each page
footer in addition to the revision date..
_____________________Original message __________________________
(received from Robert L. Nuckolls, III; Date: 03:10 PM
12/27/2004 -0600)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:39 AM 12/27/2004 +0200, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "rduplooy" <rduplooy@iafrica.com>
>
>Hi,
>Is there a PDF version of Z13...?
>I opened with IE...got the schematic but cannot read the print?..( Very
>"blocky" writing)
>Thanks
>Robert
>RV-8
Z-13 is one page of 22 in http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev10/z10.pdf
Download this document and store it to your hard drive. Then use
Acrobat to open and read/print whatever you need.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Avoiding Ignition Noise |
0.50 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary
0.01 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: f1rocket@comcast.net
The tach pickup for my GRT EIS6000 engine monitor is a wire from the magneto with
a 27 K ohm resistor wired in. My question is if I place the resistor in the
line close to the magneto, can I then run this wire near or in with my other
"sensor" wires firewall forward? Normally, I would keep the magneto wire separate
from the other "sensor" wires, and run it with my other "power" wires.
However, I don't know whether the resistor changes this wire so that it would
not be a noise propogator.
It sure would make the wiring simpler if I could include it in my "sensor" wires,
but if I need to, I can re-route it with the "power" wires with about a day's
worth of work.
Thanks.
Randy
F1 Rocket
www.Pflanzer-aviation.com
The tach pickup for my GRT EIS6000 engine monitor is a wire from the magneto with
a 27 K ohm resistor wired in. My question is if I place the resistor in the
line close to the magneto, can I then run this wire near or in with my other
"sensor" wires firewall forward? Normally, I would keep the magneto wire separate
from the other "sensor" wires, and run it with my other "power" wires. However,
I don't know whether the resistor changes this wire so that it would not
be a noise propogator.
It sure would make the wiring simpler if I could include it in my "sensor" wires,
but if I need to, I can re-route it with the "power" wires with about a day's
worth of work.
Thanks.
Randy
F1 Rocket
www.Pflanzer-aviation.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Avoiding Ignition Noise |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:58 PM 12/28/2004 +0000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: f1rocket@comcast.net
>
>The tach pickup for my GRT EIS6000 engine monitor is a wire from the
>magneto with a 27 K ohm resistor wired in. My question is if I place the
>resistor in the line close to the magneto, can I then run this wire near
>or in with my other "sensor" wires firewall forward? Normally, I would
>keep the magneto wire separate from the other "sensor" wires, and run it
>with my other "power" wires. However, I don't know whether the resistor
>changes this wire so that it would not be a noise propogator.
>
>It sure would make the wiring simpler if I could include it in my "sensor"
>wires, but if I need to, I can re-route it with the "power" wires with
>about a day's worth of work.
Use shielded wire from the resistor to the tachometer and you're going
to be fine.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Service ceiling of batteries? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:29 AM 12/24/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris"
><rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
>Curious.
>
>Is there a service ceiling where any of these batteries
>Odyssey 680 AGM
>Alkaline D cells in ELT
>NiMh - NiCad - LiIon in handheld stuff
>Small button battery memory stuff
>Lithium Polymer batteries as used on E-Models that I will be carrying around
>GellCells as used for backup on EFIS
>
>Any other airplane related things need to be aware of that could cause
>problems at FL250
>in a unpressurized Europa XS?
Not that I'm aware of. The AGM batteries will vent and expel
some internal gasses and have a partial vacuum in it when
you get back on ground but this is not a problem. The other
products are relatively "solid" . . . don't see any reason
for them to be sensitive to ambient pressures.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: bnc 90 fittings in the tray |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:04 PM 12/27/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Bean <jim-bean@att.net>
>
>You probably want 90 degree BNC connectors on the cable. These are a
>little pricy but not too bad. I had room for the 90 degree adaptors but
>found that they radiated energy into the other instruments. Replacing
>the adaptors and single shielded cable with crimped-on 90 degree
>connectors on double shielded cable solved both the radiation and space
>problems for me. The 90 degree connector is a little shorter than the
>adaptor. It's worth looking into.
>
>I don't think that there is a 90 degree fitting that will go in the
>tray. I have an access door behind the 430 just for putting the coax
>cables on. I don't know how I could have put them on otherwise. Maybe
>you need one too.
>Jim Bean
Here's a poor man's 90-degree connector solution . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/BNC_Rt_Angle/BNC_Rt_Angle.html
Bob . . .
Message 9
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:07 AM 12/28/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>Appendix Z at the URL given below is dated 11/01 (bottom right of each
>page, 22 pages total). My paper edition came with Appendix Z dated 12/02
>(also 22 pages). Which App Z is the most current one? (should be the web
>one, but based on the date it doesn't look that way) Please clarify. Thanks.
>
>Rumen
>
>P.S. Wouldn't it be a good idea to add the revision number on each page
>footer in addition to the revision date..
What differences do you find in the two? I don't believe there
are any. Keep in mind that these are ARCHITECTURE drawings and
not intended to drive sizing of wires/fuses or selection of
detailed components.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Service ceiling of batteries? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris"
><rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
>Curious.
>
>Is there a service ceiling where any of these batteries
>Odyssey 680 AGM
>Alkaline D cells in ELT
>NiMh - NiCad - LiIon in handheld stuff
>Small button battery memory stuff
...........etc----
I had a 12V lantern battery powering my intercom and the battery died after
one flight. I harassed the hardware store owner to give me a new one, since
I assumed someone had done the old switcheroo on the one I had bought.
The next flight (on engine shutdown) I smelled something burning and the
lantern battery was so hot I had to hold it by the wires to pull it out of
the airplane.
I presume lantern batteries have big flat plates that could respond to
pressure changes rather poorly. Or then again maybe not.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
.
For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and
wrong.
- H. L. Mencken
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: BNC 90 fittings in the tray |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
At 02:28 PM 12/28/2004, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>At 04:04 PM 12/27/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Bean <jim-bean@att.net>
> >
> >You probably want 90 degree BNC connectors on the cable. These are a
> >little pricy but not too bad. I had room for the 90 degree adaptors but
> >found that they radiated energy into the other instruments. Replacing
> >the adaptors and single shielded cable with crimped-on 90 degree
> >connectors on double shielded cable solved both the radiation and space
> >problems for me. The 90 degree connector is a little shorter than the
> >adaptor. It's worth looking into.
> >
> >I don't think that there is a 90 degree fitting that will go in the
> >tray. I have an access door behind the 430 just for putting the coax
> >cables on. I don't know how I could have put them on otherwise. Maybe
> >you need one too.
> >Jim Bean
>
> Here's a poor man's 90-degree connector solution . . .
>
>http://aeroelectric.com/articles/BNC_Rt_Angle/BNC_Rt_Angle.html
>
> Bob . . .
Bob,
I seem to recall recently you mention that there is a loss of signal when
you use either the adapter mentioned above or a 90 degree fitting. Which
(or both) is this loss of signal pertinent to? I'll be faced with this same
situation soon.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: push-to-test |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
Bob
I agree completely that it certainly has some major drawbacks, but there
are manufacturers who feel that "cheap" is the way to go unfortunately.
Cheap doesn't mean inexpensive either, sometimes it's just plain
substandard and leaves the unwary user with problems he shouldn't have
to be saddled with. Some of these drawbacks can be circumvented with a
diode but the better solution is obviously the fixture you've described
and diagrammed in your articles. I think the majority (maybe all) of
the fixtures I've seen with the SPST design have been intended for
industrial use and were certainly not MIL spec or intended for aircraft use.
This doesn't, of course, preclude the possibility of someone using this
style and experiencing problems as a result. I certainly would never
advocate their use, but I think it's important that people be aware of
their existence so that should the problem arise we understand a
possible explanation. The original symptoms described by Kenneth fitted
this scenario. It would now appear from his follow-up that it may have
been a stray wire strand achieving the same result however.
Bob McC
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> The type of fixture you describe wouldn't be very popular with
> systems designers. Initiating the PTT feature would have a potential
> for back-feeding a lamp's signal system with PTT power . . . a potential
> for many unintended consequences. The MS25041 fixture has a pure
> SPDT switch on the shell side of the lamp, the centre contact
> is hard wired to terminal 1 as depicted in:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/MS25041_PTT_Fixture.gif
>
> Initiating the PTT feature disconnects the shell from terminal
> 2 and moves it to terminal 3.
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Need help with sw |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
I got a sp3t sw to toggle between serial port sources for my autopilot.
Here is the senerio.
There are 3 positions on on on
6 pins.
In ON position 1, pins (2,3) & (5,6) are closed
In ON position 2, pins (1,2) & (5,6) are closed
In ON position 3, pins (1,2) & (4,5 ) are closed
I cant for the life of me figure out how to wire this thing.
I got 3 serials in to switch to one serial out. Seems like a simple
problem but I cant make any scenarios work. What am I missing?
Thanks switch gurus
Mike
Do not archive.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Need help with sw |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
Mike;
If the switch terminals connect as you describe, then: If terminals 3,
4, and 6 are connected to your three inputs and terminal 2 is used as
your output and you jumper between 1 and 5 you will achieve the result
you are looking for. In switch position 1; terminal 3 will be connected
to 2. In switch position 2; terminal 6 will be connected to 2. (via the
1/5 jumper) In switch position 3; terminal 4 will be connected to 2 (via
the 1/5 jumper)
Trust this is what you are looking for??
Bob McC
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
>
>I got a sp3t sw to toggle between serial port sources for my autopilot.
>Here is the senerio.
>There are 3 positions on on on
>6 pins.
>In ON position 1, pins (2,3) & (5,6) are closed
>In ON position 2, pins (1,2) & (5,6) are closed
>In ON position 3, pins (1,2) & (4,5 ) are closed
>
>I cant for the life of me figure out how to wire this thing.
>I got 3 serials in to switch to one serial out. Seems like a simple
>problem but I cant make any scenarios work. What am I missing?
>
>Thanks switch gurus
>
>Mike
>Do not archive.
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Need help with sw |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Chalmers" <David@ChalmersFamily.com>
How about this:
Use pin 2 as output to a/p
Connect pin 1 to 5
Use pins 3, 4, 6 as inputs
-----Original Message-----
From: Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) [mailto:mstewart@iss.net]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Need help with sw
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
I got a sp3t sw to toggle between serial port sources for my autopilot.
Here is the senerio.
There are 3 positions on on on
6 pins.
In ON position 1, pins (2,3) & (5,6) are closed
In ON position 2, pins (1,2) & (5,6) are closed
In ON position 3, pins (1,2) & (4,5 ) are closed
I cant for the life of me figure out how to wire this thing.
I got 3 serials in to switch to one serial out. Seems like a simple
problem but I cant make any scenarios work. What am I missing?
Thanks switch gurus
Mike
Do not archive.
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