Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:33 AM - Re: Need help with sw (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
2. 06:16 AM - Diagram of Duel Battery, Single Alternator with Steering Diodes (Mark Banus)
3. 06:23 AM - Re: Z13 (rd2@evenlink.com)
4. 06:39 AM - Re: Need help with sw (rd2@evenlink.com)
5. 07:37 AM - Hall Effect Sensor (f1rocket@comcast.net)
6. 08:52 AM - Re: Hall Effect Sensor (Denis Walsh)
7. 11:10 AM - Re: Smoke test failed (Brian Lloyd)
8. 11:23 AM - Aeroflash Nav/Pos/Strobe Lights (Roger & Alice Hoffman)
9. 01:27 PM - Re: Wiring Plans (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 01:33 PM - Re: Hall Effect Sensor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 01:41 PM - Re: BNC 90 fittings in the tray (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 01:48 PM - Re: Diagram of Duel Battery, Single (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: Service ceiling of batteries? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 01:55 PM - Figure Z-13A Draft Copy (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 01:58 PM - Re: Radio/Intercom interference with engine (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 04:58 PM - Oily alternator (Larry Bowen)
17. 05:11 PM - BandC current sensor installation? (Brett Ferrell)
18. 05:21 PM - Re: Figure Z-13A Draft Copy (rd2@evenlink.com)
19. 06:36 PM - Re: Hall Effect Sensor (sarg314)
20. 06:39 PM - Looking for Source for "Good" Wire Stripper (Robert E. Falstad)
21. 07:27 PM - Re: Oily alternator (Jim Jewell)
22. 07:35 PM - Re: Oily alternator (Larry Bowen)
23. 08:46 PM - Re: Service ceiling of batteries? (Eric M. Jones)
24. 08:57 PM - Re: Hall Effect Sensor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
25. 09:01 PM - Re: Looking for Source for "Good" Wire Stripper (John Schroeder)
26. 09:06 PM - Re: BandC current sensor installation? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
27. 10:18 PM - Re: overvoltage protection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Need help with sw |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
You guy rock.
That was tricky! I wired it and it wotks.
Thanks Bob and Dave for figuring that out.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert McCallum
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need help with sw
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert McCallum
<robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
Mike;
If the switch terminals connect as you describe, then: If terminals 3,
4, and 6 are connected to your three inputs and terminal 2 is used as
your output and you jumper between 1 and 5 you will achieve the result
you are looking for. In switch position 1; terminal 3 will be connected
to 2. In switch position 2; terminal 6 will be connected to 2. (via the
1/5 jumper) In switch position 3; terminal 4 will be connected to 2 (via
the 1/5 jumper)
Trust this is what you are looking for??
Bob McC
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS
Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
>
>I got a sp3t sw to toggle between serial port sources for my autopilot.
>Here is the senerio.
>There are 3 positions on on on
>6 pins.
>In ON position 1, pins (2,3) & (5,6) are closed
>In ON position 2, pins (1,2) & (5,6) are closed
>In ON position 3, pins (1,2) & (4,5 ) are closed
>
>I cant for the life of me figure out how to wire this thing.
>I got 3 serials in to switch to one serial out. Seems like a simple
>problem but I cant make any scenarios work. What am I missing?
>
>Thanks switch gurus
>
>Mike
>Do not archive.
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Diagram of Duel Battery, Single Alternator with Steering |
Diodes
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Banus" <mbanus@hotmail.com>
Is there a Diagram of Duel Battery, Single Alternator system with Steering Diodes
in Bob's plethora of drawings? I intend to have both batteries being changed
any time the master is on with the endurance bus separated from the battery
buss with a switch. I've looked but I must have missed it. Thanks.
Mark Banus
Message 3
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
Sorry I didn't have the time at the moment to compare page by page - just
thought that the revision on the web would/should be the most recent one -
and according to how it was dated, it wasn't - which confused me.
Rumen
_____________________Original message __________________________
(received from Robert L. Nuckolls, III; Date: 01:32 PM
12/28/2004 -0600)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:07 AM 12/28/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>Appendix Z at the URL given below is dated 11/01 (bottom right of each
>page, 22 pages total). My paper edition came with Appendix Z dated 12/02
>(also 22 pages). Which App Z is the most current one? (should be the web
>one, but based on the date it doesn't look that way) Please clarify. Thanks.
>
>Rumen
>
>P.S. Wouldn't it be a good idea to add the revision number on each page
>footer in addition to the revision date..
What differences do you find in the two? I don't believe there
are any. Keep in mind that these are ARCHITECTURE drawings and
not intended to drive sizing of wires/fuses or selection of
detailed components.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Need help with sw |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
Hi Mike -
>I got a sp3t sw to toggle between serial port sources for my autopilot.
snip--------
Can you point me to a URL for the switch? I will be doing something similar
and am trying to decide which switch to use (rotary or toggle; would like
it with LED indication if available).
Thanks
Rumen
Do not archive.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Hall Effect Sensor |
0.50 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary
0.01 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: f1rocket@comcast.net
I'm getting ready to mount my Hall Effect sensor for my engine monitor. I have
the option to measure either the output from the two alternators (primary and
auxiliary) or the load on the battery.
I'm guessing that there may be more value in measuring battery load since that
will give me the option to manage that load in the event of alternator failure.
However, with a single battery/dual laternator architecture, I don't know if
I will ever need too.
I'd like to hear a few opinions on what your choice would be and why. Thanks.
Randy
F1 Rocket
www.pflanzer-aviation.com
I'm getting ready to mount my Hall Effect sensor for my engine monitor. I have
the option to measure either the output from the two alternators (primary and
auxiliary) or the load on the battery.
I'm guessing that there may be more value in measuring battery load since that
will give me the option to manage that load in the event of alternator failure.
However, with a single battery/dual laternator architecture, I don't know if
I will ever need too.
I'd like to hear a few opinions on what your choice would be and why. Thanks.
Randy
F1 Rocket
www.pflanzer-aviation.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Hall Effect Sensor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@comcast.net>
Agree it's too tough to choose. I would choose none of the above.
Stick with a voltmeter. It will tell you all you need to know,
simpler, one less thing to screw up..
On Dec 29, 2004, at 8:34 AM, f1rocket@comcast.net wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: f1rocket@comcast.net
>
> I'm getting ready to mount my Hall Effect sensor for my engine
> monitor. I have the option to measure either the output from the two
> alternators (primary and auxiliary) or the load on the battery.
>
> I'm guessing that there may be more value in measuring battery load
> since that will give me the option to manage that load in the event of
> alternator failure. However, with a single battery/dual laternator
> architecture, I don't know if I will ever need too.
>
> I'd like to hear a few opinions on what your choice would be and why.
> Thanks.
>
> Randy
> F1 Rocket
> www.pflanzer-aviation.com
>
> I'm getting ready to mount my Hall Effect sensor for my engine
> monitor. I have the option to measure either the output from the two
> alternators (primary and auxiliary) or the load on the battery.
>
> I'm guessing that there may be more value in measuring battery load
> since that will give me the option to manage that load in the event of
> alternator failure. However, with a single battery/dual laternator
> architecture, I don't know if I will ever need too.
>
> I'd like to hear a few opinions on what your choice would be and why.
> Thanks.
>
> Randy
> F1 Rocket
> www.pflanzer-aviation.com
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Smoke test failed |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Dec 28, 2004, at 8:23 AM, Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
> Well, While doing a circuit test last night, I hooked power to the
> Garmin 430 nav and gps circuit, and psssttt, smoke and smell. ARGH!! OK
> so it was the only thing hooked up with power, which all worked on the
> bench. The only thing I could find was a 232 port shorted to ground.
> Would this smoke the 232 serial circuit in the 430? Any chance the
> other 232 circuits still work? The unit still powers up and so forth.
The RS-232 outputs should survive a short to ground with no ill
effects. It will not be able to source enough power to generate smoke.
If the RS-232 port is supposed to provide power, it should have an
internal fuse to prevent just what you experienced.
I would look more closely for a source of the problem.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
Message 8
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| Subject: | Aeroflash Nav/Pos/Strobe Lights |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Roger & Alice Hoffman" <rognal@clipper.net>
I am installing the Aeroflash Nav/Pos/Strobe lights to the wingtips of a Murphy
Rebel (all metal structure). I have also installed the individual strobe power
supplies in each wingtip.
Being a new builder I am struggling to understand the wiring process for the Aeroflash
lights. Between some of the past posts to this list, and the few wiring
diagrams I've found on the web, I'm still confused. I thought I would describe
my intentions here, hoping I could get some feedback as to whether my plan
is workable. Here goes:
The units are Aeroflash PN #156-0049. The Strobe power supplies are their 12V Single
Flash units. Aeroflash Technical Support tells me each power supply draws
1.5 amps. Each Nav light bulb draws 2 amps. Each position light bulb draws 2.8
amps. They also advised any wires to the power supplies would not need to be
shielded unless the wire was routed near an antenna.
I am planning a single on/off toggle switch for the strobes, and a single on/off
toggle switch for nav/pos lights.
If my figures are correct, when the nav/pos lights are turned on, total amperage
draw should be 9.6 amps. Can I run a single 18 AWG wire from the bus to the
switch (5 ft), then from one terminal of the switch run a 20 AWG wire 17 feet
to the left wingtip nav light (2A) AND from the same switch terminal run an 18
AWG wire the same distance to the same wingtip pos light (2.8A)? THEN using a
second terminal on the same switch run a 20 AWG wire 20 feet to the right wingtip
nav light and from the same switch terminal run an 18 AWG wire the same distance
to the right pos light? If this works, am I correct using a fuse adequate
for the 9.6 amp load? Say a 15A fuse?
The strobe power supplies would be wired similiarly if this works OK.
I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.
Thanks for any and all help.
Roger Hoffman
Eugene, OR USA!
Message 9
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aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Plans |
>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:22 PM 12/18/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>Bob, I bought the book and will be at the next St. Louis class but have a
>question or two now. I am building a RV7a xp360 carb CS with the dual GRT
>EFIS panels(2), TT Digiflight II with VS control, Electro Air P-Mag and one
>slick mag. Airplane will be flown light IFR.
>
>I am thinking that I want to use the Z11 (All Electric on a Budget) but I
>want to use the Vans 60 amp internal alt as the main. I know I will need
>some kind of OV protection and also was wondering if the B&C SD8 will run
>without a battery in the off chance of a true battery failure?
All Electric on a Budget is Figure Z-13. Modify the alternator
installation per Figure Z-24. Note that Z-24 will be updated to
ADD a load-dump protection feature at the next revision next month.
The SD-8 will run without a battery . . . it won't start without
a battery. A properly maintained RG battery is not going to fail.
They're just so much better than a flooded battery that gross failure
of cells due to mechanical opens or shorts is simply not part of
our failure mode concerns any more. Likelihood of a battery
failure taking your whole system down is very remote . . . especially
if you keep the battery relatively fresh. Have you considered a less
expensive battery and putting a new one in each annual inspection?
Batteries that fail are those flogged beyond their 80% capacity
life limits. If install a premium battery, you're more inclined
to run it until it won't crank the engine any more. Install a garden
variety product and toss it every year - battery failures will
be the same order of probability as prop bolt failures.
>I see that you have circuit protection on the contactors and was considering
>sending the ones that came in the Vans FWF kit back and getting them from
>you or B&C. If I wanted to do the Z11 with the Vans 60 Amp alternator, do
>you have a "kit" or can make one up with all the contactors, relays, and OV
>circuits, ground buss, etc. that I would need.
I don't sell any parts. B&C has all of the parts I used to sell.
I don't think they've "kited" any selections of parts . . . there
are so few parts involved and so many variations on a theme that
it's probably not practical.
>Would you also have a diagram showing the Z11 plan but with the Vans 60 amp
>internal reg with an OV circuit?
I've done a draft copy of Z-13 Rev A which will show an internally
regulated alternator -AND- load dump protection. You can download
an interim copy at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Architecture/z13A.pdf
>Is the Odyssey PC680 battery OK for the Z11 plan? If I read it right, it's
>only a 13 AH battery but with the SD8 backup alt, I would think it's just
>right for the mission.
The PC680 is an excellent example of the current crop of
RG battery offerings. It's not a poor selection but perhaps
not the most practical. Unless you plan to capacity test
and pitch it at 80% (in spite of fact that it still
starts your engine) then I'd suggest the yearly change-out
of a less expensive battery.
>Thanks for the help, your forum is very educational.
Thank you for the kind words. May I suggest we do this
conversation on the AeroElectric List? It's better if
we can share the information with as many interested
folks as possible.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Hall Effect Sensor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:34 PM 12/29/2004 +0000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: f1rocket@comcast.net
>
>I'm getting ready to mount my Hall Effect sensor for my engine monitor. I
>have the option to measure either the output from the two alternators
>(primary and auxiliary) or the load on the battery.
>
>I'm guessing that there may be more value in measuring battery load since
>that will give me the option to manage that load in the event of
>alternator failure. However, with a single battery/dual laternator
>architecture, I don't know if I will ever need too.
>
>I'd like to hear a few opinions on what your choice would be and why. Thanks.
If you have active notification of low voltage -AND- you
KNOW that under all anticipated operating modes that you're
not going to over-load either alternator, then an ammeter
is of no value to you as an in-flight operating display.
Ammeters and voltmeters are excellent diagnostic tools
but offer little assistance if your system is designed,
operated and maintained with an understanding of limits
in various modes of operation.
Since you have two alternators and the key questions to
be answered involve load analysis for normal ops and load
shedding for alternator-out ops, then configuring as
a loadmeter (run both alternator feeds through the same
sensor) makes the most sense.
Battery ammeters were fine in your '41 Chevy and '48
C-170 but not very practical today.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: BNC 90 fittings in the tray |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:58 PM 12/28/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
>
>At 02:28 PM 12/28/2004, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> ><b.nuckolls@cox.net>
> >
> >At 04:04 PM 12/27/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Bean <jim-bean@att.net>
> > >
> > >You probably want 90 degree BNC connectors on the cable. These are a
> > >little pricy but not too bad. I had room for the 90 degree adaptors but
> > >found that they radiated energy into the other instruments. Replacing
> > >the adaptors and single shielded cable with crimped-on 90 degree
> > >connectors on double shielded cable solved both the radiation and space
> > >problems for me. The 90 degree connector is a little shorter than the
> > >adaptor. It's worth looking into.
> > >
> > >I don't think that there is a 90 degree fitting that will go in the
> > >tray. I have an access door behind the 430 just for putting the coax
> > >cables on. I don't know how I could have put them on otherwise. Maybe
> > >you need one too.
> > >Jim Bean
> >
> > Here's a poor man's 90-degree connector solution . . .
> >
> >http://aeroelectric.com/articles/BNC_Rt_Angle/BNC_Rt_Angle.html
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>Bob,
> I seem to recall recently you mention that there is a loss of signal when
>you use either the adapter mentioned above or a 90 degree fitting. Which
>(or both) is this loss of signal pertinent to? I'll be faced with this same
>situation soon.
There are "losses" and "mismatches" associated with EVERY
part in the feedline. As long as you keep the coax length
less than 50 feet and use connectors and fittings only as necessary
for a practical installation, detrimental effects of component
and configuration choices will be acceptable.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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Diodes
| Subject: | Re: Diagram of Duel Battery, Single |
Alternator with Steering Diodes
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
Alternator with Steering Diodes
At 09:12 AM 12/29/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Banus" <mbanus@hotmail.com>
>
>Is there a Diagram of Duel Battery, Single Alternator system with Steering
>Diodes in Bob's plethora of drawings? I intend to have both batteries
>being changed any time the master is on with the endurance bus separated
>from the battery buss with a switch. I've looked but I must have missed
>it. Thanks.
No, that architecture is not recommended. That's not to say
that you can't do it any way you wish but the functionality
you're looking for is offered. What is the driver for adding
a second battery? What problems do you see, for example,
with Figure Z-11 with a second battery added per Z-30?
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Service ceiling of batteries? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:18 PM 12/28/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris"
> ><rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> >
> >Curious.
> >
> >Is there a service ceiling where any of these batteries
>
> >Odyssey 680 AGM
> >Alkaline D cells in ELT
> >NiMh - NiCad - LiIon in handheld stuff
> >Small button battery memory stuff
>...........etc----
>
>I had a 12V lantern battery powering my intercom and the battery died after
>one flight. I harassed the hardware store owner to give me a new one, since
>I assumed someone had done the old switcheroo on the one I had bought.
>
>The next flight (on engine shutdown) I smelled something burning and the
>lantern battery was so hot I had to hold it by the wires to pull it out of
>the airplane.
>
>I presume lantern batteries have big flat plates that could respond to
>pressure changes rather poorly. Or then again maybe not.
Interesting! Do you recall the battery and type? Was this
a 6-volt battery with the springs on top? I have several
flashlights of this variety. I'll be getting into the lab
with the super-sucker chambers sometime next month. I'll
get some batteries and take them up to 55,000 feet.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Figure Z-13A Draft Copy |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:20 AM 12/29/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
>
>Sorry I didn't have the time at the moment to compare page by page - just
>thought that the revision on the web would/should be the most recent one -
>and according to how it was dated, it wasn't - which confused me.
>
>Rumen
I've posted a draft copy of Z-13A which will appear in print
in Revision 11 to the 'Connection. You can download this
document at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Architecture/z13A.pdf
Bob. . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Radio/Intercom interference with engine |
issue
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
issue
At 05:54 PM 12/27/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N223RV@aol.com
>
>I have an interesting issue. I am flying my friends RV-7, this is the
>second flight. I had the throttle basically full (breaking in the
>engine) and the
>radio progressively seemed to get worse (over a 515 minute period) with
>static when receiving transmissions from ATC. It got so bad, I
>could barely hear
>him. He said he had no issues hearing me. I told him I was going to come
>in for a full stop, pulled back the throttle, and could hear fine once
>again.
>So I called the controller and told him I was going to go around again and
>once I gave it over about 75% power, the radio once again had a bunch of
>static (only when receiving transmissions).
>
>The plane has a PS Engineering PM1000 intercom, Garmin 430 radio, and a
>Headsets Inc ANR in a Dave Clark 13.4 headset. It also has a Lightspeed
>electronic ignition on the right mag. I did a mag check in the air and
>it did not
>seem to make a difference.
>
>I pulled and reseated the headset plugs and that did not fix the issue.
>
>Does anyone have any ideas what to check? We had no issues on the first
>flight. Thanks in advance!
Suggest you review the 'Connection's chapter on Noise. You need
to identify the specific victim, the noise source and the
propagation mode. This is something akin to playing the game
of Clue . . .
Bob . . .
Message 16
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I blew a the nose seal on my O-360, and most of the resulting oil seems to
have passed through my Niagara 40 amp alternator before it slimed all over
the cowl, etc. Is the alternator doomed or is it possible it won't effect
it?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Message 17
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| Subject: | BandC current sensor installation? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brett Ferrell" <bferrell@123mail.net>
Can someone tell me how to hook up the B&C current sensor? I called them today,
and they said they'd get back to me but they didn't. I'm hooking it up to my
SB1B, and I'm confused by the schematic. I can see clearly how the the small
white/orange/blue wires are connected to the regulator, but the larger (10Ga
I think) wire has one ring terminal and one unterminated end. The schematic
shows a dashed line (not a wire) to a annular ring/hall effet sensor that surrounds
the SB20's B-lead.
1) Should this B-lead pass through the sensors ring-terminal?
2) If so, where does the unterminated end go?
3) If not, do the two ends come together somehow around the B-Lead, and if so how?
Thanks for any help.
Brett
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Figure Z-13A Draft Copy |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
Tx a lot, Bob.
Happy New Year to you and everyone on the list.
Rumen
_____________________Original message __________________________
(received from Robert L. Nuckolls, III; Date: 03:52 PM
12/29/2004 -0600)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:20 AM 12/29/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
>
>Sorry I didn't have the time at the moment to compare page by page - just
>thought that the revision on the web would/should be the most recent one -
>and according to how it was dated, it wasn't - which confused me.
>
>Rumen
I've posted a draft copy of Z-13A which will appear in print
in Revision 11 to the 'Connection. You can download this
document at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Architecture/z13A.pdf
Bob. . .
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Hall Effect Sensor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
Bob:
In chapter 7 of your book you say "if you plan only one electrical
system instrument, make it a battery ammeter". You had me convinced.
So, how do I understand the statement you made below, or have I got the
context wrong?
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>At 03:34 PM 12/29/2004 +0000, you wrote:
>
> Battery ammeters were fine in your '41 Chevy and '48
> C-170 but not very practical today.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, firewall.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Looking for Source for "Good" Wire Stripper |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert E. Falstad" <RandBFalstad@compuserve.com>
Folks,
I'm looking for sources & P/Ns for "good" (~$150)wire stripper. The
closest I've come is Ideal Industries
P/N 45-171 (for PVC), 45-177 (for Teflon) or 45-1987 (for MIL-W-22759/32
thru 46 -- but not listed for /16).
See http://www.idealindustries.com/pt/HandTools.nsf
Ideal will test a wire sample and tell you what will work but I thought I'd
try the list first. Thanks and
Best regards,
Bob
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Oily alternator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Larry,
I would be inclined to take it apart for cleaning if for no other reason
than concerns about dirt build-up. The oil might have gotten into the
brushes and dust and oil there will not be doing any particular good.
Did you get full scope on the cause of the blown seal? Was there no retainer
plates?
Happy New Year!,
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Oily alternator
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen"
> <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
> I blew a the nose seal on my O-360, and most of the resulting oil seems to
> have passed through my Niagara 40 amp alternator before it slimed all over
> the cowl, etc. Is the alternator doomed or is it possible it won't effect
> it?
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry@BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
>
Message 22
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Is disassembly something a novice can do? Or is it one of those things
where little springs and other bits go flying when you unfasten that one
bolt?
No retaining plates. From what I've read, I thought those were only for
older, smaller displacement engines.....
Thanks,
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Jewell [mailto:jjewell@telus.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:27 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Oily alternator
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell"
> --> <jjewell@telus.net>
>
> Hi Larry,
>
> I would be inclined to take it apart for cleaning if for no
> other reason than concerns about dirt build-up. The oil might
> have gotten into the brushes and dust and oil there will not
> be doing any particular good.
>
> Did you get full scope on the cause of the blown seal? Was
> there no retainer plates?
>
> Happy New Year!,
>
> Jim in Kelowna
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Oily alternator
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen"
> > <Larry@BowenAero.com>
> >
> > I blew a the nose seal on my O-360, and most of the
> resulting oil seems to
> > have passed through my Niagara 40 amp alternator before it
> slimed all over
> > the cowl, etc. Is the alternator doomed or is it possible
> it won't effect
> > it?
> >
> > -
> > Larry Bowen
> > Larry@BowenAero.com
> > http://BowenAero.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =========
> =========
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
> =========
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Service ceiling of batteries? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>Do you recall the battery and type?
>Bob . . .
(I think....)
Eveready 732 12Volt Screw Top Battery
$11.99 Eveready 732, 12Volts, 7500 mAh Carbon Zinc Battery -
This was in 1985---so I have no idea if the design has been changed. I
couldn't have been the only customer who had a problem.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
"Everything you've learned in school as "obvious" becomes
less and less obvious as you begin to study the universe.
For example, there are no solids in the universe. There's
not even a suggestion of a solid. There are no absolute con-
tinuums. There are no surfaces. There are no straight lines."
- R. Buckminster Fuller
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Hall Effect Sensor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:35 PM 12/29/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
>
>Bob:
> In chapter 7 of your book you say "if you plan only one electrical
>system instrument, make it a battery ammeter". You had me convinced.
>So, how do I understand the statement you made below, or have I got the
>context wrong?
No. Chapter 7 was written about 10 years ago . . . before we
understood that there were better ways to go. Chapter 7 is
is heavily revised in Rev 11 . . . the battery ammeter
will be discussed but not recommended. In fact, if one wants
to AVOID bringing alternator b-leads into the cockpit, battery
ammeters are not even practical (except as hall-effect devices).
Battery ammeters have a story to tell . . . so do alternator
load meters. No amount of instrumentation on the panel will
allow you to thoroughly troubleshoot a mis-behaving electrical
system.
Given that there is no information from ammeters/voltmeters that
is useful to help you fly the airplane . . . and only
marginally useful for troubleshooting the airplane, the
choice of what you install and how it's wired is not
critical.
Bob . . .
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for Source for "Good" Wire Stripper |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
I'm using an Ideal Frame #L5217 and a die set #88A081X P/N 45-1610-1 on
Tefzel 22759/16 and it works great.
Hope this helps,
John
>
> I'm looking for sources & P/Ns for "good" (~$150)wire stripper. The
> closest I've come is Ideal Industries
> P/N 45-171 (for PVC), 45-177 (for Teflon) or 45-1987 (for MIL-W-22759/32
> thru 46 -- but not listed for /16).
>
> See http://www.idealindustries.com/pt/HandTools.nsf
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: BandC current sensor installation? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:09 PM 12/29/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brett Ferrell"
><bferrell@123mail.net>
>
>Can someone tell me how to hook up the B&C current sensor? I called them
>today, and they said they'd get back to me but they didn't. I'm hooking
>it up to my SB1B, and I'm confused by the schematic. I can see clearly
>how the the small white/orange/blue wires are connected to the regulator,
>but the larger (10Ga I think) wire has one ring terminal and one
>unterminated end. The schematic shows a dashed line (not a wire) to a
>annular ring/hall effet sensor that surrounds the SB20's B-lead.
>1) Should this B-lead pass through the sensors ring-terminal?
The wiring diagram at:
http://bandc.biz/14-SB1B.pdf
shows three wires in a cable that attach to three terminals
of the regulator. The dotted line leading to the toroidal
shape below says that the sensor is used to detect current in
the alternator b-lead. The sensor is an AMPLOC device
like those described in:
http://amploc.com/PRO%20Series.pdf
>2) If so, where does the unterminated end go?
>3) If not, do the two ends come together somehow around the B-Lead, and if
>so how?
The diagram is quite explicit. The #10 wire passes one time through the
opening in the sensor. Further, the sensor should be marked as
to which opening faces the alternator. This will be described in
the installation instructions. The #10 wire is left un-terminated
on one end so that it can be passed through the sensor. Most terminals
that are used with #10 wire are too large. The end that has a terminal
on it is probably sized to fit the alternator. The free end needs
a terminal that matches the connection you choose to install at the
bus end . . . probably the wiring screw on the 40A breaker.
Bob . . .
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: overvoltage protection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:33 PM 12/22/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>Warning!
> >The internally regulated 60 ampere alternator
> >should not be used with overvoltage protection
> >systems. If you open the charging circuit while
> >it is in operation, it will destroy the
> >regulator.
>
>Bob, we placed this warning on our web site some time ago after we
>discovered that many of the reported alternator failures were
>occurring to builders who were using various overvoltage protection.
>The one thing that they seemed to have in common was that the charge
>line was being opened on a functioning alternator.
Yes, there is a phenomenon commonly referred to in the
automotive circles as "load dump" . . . when an alternator
is loaded and then suddenly relived of both system loads
-AND- the stabilizing effect of a battery, there's a brief,
relatively low energy surge at the alternator's output
terminal. The majority of regulator suppliers understand
this phenomenon and craft their regulators to withstand
the event . . . however some, as we've discovered, do
not design with such attention to detail.
If the alternator (with Figure Z-24 OV system installed)
is operated like we usually do it in an airplane, the
engine is at low RPM and loads are relatively light when
the alternator is shut down. The caution would have been
more useful to suggest that the alternator not be shut
down except when the engine is at idle RPM and other
system loads are already minimized.
> We realize that
>there are ways to utilize this alternator with overvoltage protection
>but felt the alternator was reliable enough in this failure mode to
>be used without it.
It's quite true that the modern automotive alternator
is a very reliable device . . . but so are many other
DC power systems for vehicles including certified aircraft.
While the failure rate is very low, it's not zero. An when
failure occurs, there is NO way using Van's recommended
wiring that the errant alternator can be brought to heal.
Removing power from the control signal to the back of the
failed alternator will not shut it off. Further, expecting
the pilot to become aware of an OV condition and react to
it in a timely manner is unrealistic.
> We have thousands of hours on our factory
>aircraft with a fair share of alt. failures and never has one failed
>in the overvoltage mode.
. . . and your experience is typical of many other
installations. But in 15 years of writing for the
'Connection, I've become aware of three unprotected
OV events with internally regulated alternators . . . all
were sad days with respect to damage done to the rest
of the airplane. I've had several builders report
relief that OV systems installed in their airplanes
were called upon to do the job of halting a runaway
alternator and the system performed as expected.
> Understandably, many builders are
>installing high end avionics and want to protect them against even a
>remote possibility of losing them to a rougue alternator. For this
>reason, we intend to change our warning to the following:
It's more than a matter of protecting "high end avionics".
Everything on the bus is subject to reduced life if not
immediate damage from the effects of a runaway alternator.
If the builder is flying at night or has some IMC to
transit, probability of success is improved greatly
with the addition of some inexpensive components to
stand off an OV event.
If you've followed the state of the art on the AeroElectric
List, you'll understand that good preventative maintenance
on batteries, active notification of low voltage, automatic
shutdown of runaway alternator(s), and dual feedpath
architectures for powering an endurance bus all go toward
eliminating the possibility that any of our OBAM aircraft
brothers will have a dark-n-stormy night tale to tell
in one of the monthly flying rags . . . or worse yet,
didn't survive to tell the tale.
>"Caution, Builders planning to utilize overvoltage protection with
>Van's internally regulated 60 amp alternator should consult with the
>manufacturer of the overvoltage device to insure that any special
>wiring requirements are met during installation."
Certainly good words with respect to relieving
Van's of any liability/responsibility for damage
resulting from poorly designed protection being added
to a Van's supplied alternator. My only disappointment
in the matter rises from the fact that the design
deficiency for the system I was recommending was
not made known to me (nor was it discussed on the
AeroElectric-List) until long after Van's published
a warning suggesting that OV protection NOT be installed
lest inappropriate use of the system damage the alternator.
Van's is safe with either approach . . . (1) recommend
that OV protection not be installed at all -OR-
(2) push all responsibility for future difficulties
off on the provider of such protection.
May I suggest and encourage that someone at
Van's become a regular contributor on the AeroElectric-
List? Would it not be better for Van's to be
an active participant in the refinement of our craft
than to seek an appropriate set of words to
limit liability and/or responsibility?
Revision 11 to the 'Connection will be published this
spring. It will include a modification to OV protection
for built-in regulators that will prevent the alternator
damage noted by Van's customers. A simple addition
of a solid state transient suppressor to the system
as described in:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Architecture/z13A.pdf
. . . will keep the alternator from killing itself
even when the switch is cycled at inappropriate times.
Numerous technically competent individuals
frequent the List who, like myself, are interested in
understanding why things do not work as intended
and crafting remedies. The services of these
folk doesn't cost anyone more than the time to
make a problem known and contribute what knowledge
they have to the discussion.
Is there someone at Van's who shares the List's
quest for advancing the best we know how to do?
Van's products are fine examples of airframe design
and power-plant integration. But may I suggest that
when you publish a recommended list of components
and a wiring diagram to install them, it would be
in the best interests of both Van's and the customer to
craft an electrical system with the same care and
understanding as for the airplane and it's power-plant?
Regards,
Bob . . .
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