---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/07/05: 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:03 AM - Re: COM static on 123.05 (Kingsley Hurst) 2. 04:17 AM - Re: Electronic Ignition and Engine Monitors (Trampas) 3. 07:06 AM - Re: Alternator control switch (Ken) 4. 07:22 AM - Re: Alternator control switch (Gary Casey) 5. 08:34 AM - Re: bnc 90 fittings in the tray (Charlie Kuss) 6. 09:13 AM - Ideas on Painting Panel (Ronald J. Parigoris) 7. 09:19 AM - How to light labels? (Ronald J. Parigoris) 8. 09:27 AM - Wire Separations (Jim.Piavis@sybase.com) 9. 09:28 AM - Re: KX-125 Problem Solved (Nightingale Michael) 10. 09:53 AM - Re: Ideas on Painting Panel (BobsV35B@aol.com) 11. 10:27 AM - Re: Digital Photos (Chuck Jensen) 12. 10:41 AM - Re: Ideas on Painting Panel (Alex Peterson) 13. 10:53 AM - Re: Ideas on Painting Panel (BobsV35B@aol.com) 14. 11:25 AM - Re: Ideas on Painting Panel (Dan Checkoway) 15. 11:46 AM - Ideas on Painting Panel (Mickey Coggins) 16. 11:54 AM - Re: Ideas on Painting Panel (Matt Prather) 17. 12:09 PM - Re: Ideas on Painting Panel (Dan Checkoway) 18. 12:11 PM - coax center pin crimping (Mickey Coggins) 19. 12:39 PM - Re: coax center pin crimping (Bobby Hester) 20. 12:42 PM - Re: Ideas on Painting Panel (Mickey Coggins) 21. 12:51 PM - LOAD dump comments (Paul Messinger) 22. 01:34 PM - Re: LOAD dump comments (Bobby Hester) 23. 01:46 PM - Re: Ideas on Painting Panel (Joel Harding) 24. 02:58 PM - Re: Ideas on Painting Panel (BobsV35B@aol.com) 25. 04:50 PM - [PLEASE READ NOW] - Addressing Upgrade At Matronics TONIGHT! (dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)) 26. 05:58 PM - Re: How to light labels? (glaesers) 27. 06:31 PM - Re:coax center pin crimping (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 28. 07:25 PM - Re: Ideas on Painting Panel (Alex Peterson) 29. 07:30 PM - BNC 90 Connectors () 30. 07:33 PM - Re: Ideas on Painting Panel (earl_schroeder@juno.com) 31. 11:20 PM - Re: Re: How to light labels? (Fiveonepw@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:18 AM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: COM static on 123.05 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" Joe E wrote:- > I've been scratching my head and searching the archives about this problem. No static on 120.6 or 118.3. Static on 123.05 and 122.7. My COM worked fine for > 125 hours and now this. . . . . . . Joe, A friend of mine has a Jabiru with the 3300 engine and he has short earth wires running from each carburettor to the engine. I understand this is a Jabiru Co mod because it was found the throttle and choke cables were acting like aerials. No experience with this myself but it might be worth a try. Regards Kingsley Hurst Europa Mono Classic 281 in Oz ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:17:29 AM PST US From: "Trampas" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Electronic Ignition and Engine Monitors --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" The Pulsar 200 has dual p-lead inputs as well as an inductive pickup for the tachometer inputs. The Pulsar 40 uses a square wave input which is compatible with most electronic ignition. Additionally we supply adapter circuits if you want to use inductive or P-leads. Regards, Trampas Stern www.sterntech.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Electronic Ignition and Engine Monitors --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Randy I had the same issue on my ACS 2002 unit and since the pick up off the mag is from the sensor and NOT the p-lead, then you will get the rpm drop checking either unit with the ACS unit. But I am with you, I was very disappointed to find this out. Does yours get rpm from P-lead? Mike S8 -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of f1rocket@comcast.net Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electronic Ignition and Engine Monitors --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: f1rocket@comcast.net Thought I'd share a "gotcha" that I found out about today. If you're using a GRT EIS system and a Lightspeed Engineering electronic ignition, you CANNOT use the Lightspeed to drive the RPM input to the EIS without modification of the EIS unit. Sandy at EIS said she could walk me through the modification, or I could send the unit in for them to fix. Neither looked appealing to me so I'm just driving the RPM input from the magneto instead. If you are going to order an EIS unit, you might want to let them know if you are using a LSE ignition system so they can ship the unit to you correctly the first time. As an aside, I'm a little disappointed that there isn't any way to drive the RPM input with both signals. Now, I won't be able to measure the RPM drop when the EI is shut off during run up. It's not a big deal, but it would be nice if the EIS unit handled this. I looked at using the other side of the DPDT mag switches to drive the RPM input, but the progressive transfer switch used (I think it's a 2-5) doesn't really work in this case. Randy F1 Rocket www.pflanzer-aviation.com Thought I'd share a "gotcha" that I found out about today. If you're using a GRT EIS system and a Lightspeed Engineering electronic ignition, you CANNOT use the Lightspeed to drive the RPM input to the EIS without modification of the EIS unit. Sandy at EIS said she could walk me through the modification, or I could send the unit in for them to fix. Neither looked appealing to me so I'm just driving the RPM input from the magneto instead. If you are going to order an EIS unit, you might want to let them know if you are using a LSE ignition system so they can ship the unit to you correctly the first time. As an aside, I'm a little disappointed that there isn't any way to drive the RPM input with both signals. Now, I won't be able to measure the RPM drop when the EI is shut offduring run up. It's not a big deal, but it would be nice if the EIS unit handled this. I looked at using the other sideof the DPDT mag switches to drive the RPM input, but the progressive transfer switch used (I think it's a 2-5) doesn't really work in this case. Randy F1 Rocket www.pflanzer-aviation.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:50 AM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator control switch clamav-milter version 0.80j on juliet.albedo.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken It may be a little more complicated for an internal vr alternator. Yes you need to switch off the power to the ov contactor after flight. If using a double pole Batt/Alt switch for that, you would be at idle when you turned it off during normal ops and it should not be a problem. However if the DP switch is erroneously turned off in flight and the batt contactor opens before or simultaneously with the ov contactor, it seems to me that there will be a major load dump and I did not want that risk with an electrically dependant EFI engine. So perhaps a separate guarded ALT switch still makes sense in some cases. Ken (still looking for a source for the 5KP18, the mouser site says to expect 14 weeks for a backorder) snip >This is how I wire things. The battery master switch is a double-pole >unit with one pole controlling the battery contactor and the other >controlling the alternator field. You can't turn off the battery with >the alternator left on. If you really need the alternator off, pull the >alternator field breaker. > >snip > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:35 AM PST US From: "Gary Casey" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator control switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" Lots of interesting posts on this general subject, which has to do with load dumps. In an effort to keep things simple: 1. The simplest way to connect the alternator output seems to be via a large fuse to the bus side of the master battery switch. 2. The alternator could be wired with no switch to the field supply except a circuit breaker, which would be pulled if the need arose. The "normal" split master switch shuts the battery and alternator field supply off simultaneously. This would theoretically produce a load dump event as the alternator won't instantly stop producing current and the circuit to the battery is now open. Apparently this doesn't happen because there is a longer delay in the master relay that what it takes to stop alternator output? Using a manual master contactor (large switch) takes away the simultaneous nature of shutting off the battery and alternator field supply. In that case I assume if the battery is disconnected there will be a load dump event that will trigger the OV limit in the (B&C) regulator and shut off the alternator. However, the load dump event will still be there and could be of a fairly high voltage. The cure would be to remember to pull the alternator field circuit breaker first. I hate having to "remember" things. On the other hand, having to shut off the master with the engine running is an extremely rare event - I've never had to do it in 35 years of flying. Or one could connect the alternator output directly to the battery. I'm not sure what's wrong with this as if there is a short in the alternator the fuse will blow. If the alternator over-produces the normal OV system takes care of it. Why NOT connect it directly to the battery? The only (very unlikely) scenario that I can come up with that would make that a problem is if the alternator developed a partial short - enough to prevent it from delivering current, but not enough to blow the fuse. In that case it would pull the battery down, making use of the endurance bus of very short endurance. Just trying to keep things simple, Gary Casey ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:46 AM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: bnc 90 fittings in the tray --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss Listers, Did anyone else succeed in finding the part mentioned by OC below? I went to Delta's site and used the PART FINDER search feature. No joy. Any suggestions OC? Charlie Kuss snipped >Hello Mike, This may help. The tray for my SL-30 (back when it was still >built by UPS) came with two 90 degree BNC slide-into connections on it. I >wanted straight ones (the opposite of your desires) and did some research. I >discovered that my 90 degree BNC connections were from Delta ARF with a part >number of 4205018N995. > >If you go to this URL and look at the lower left hand corner of the picture >you will see that part. > >http://www.deltarf.com/specs.asp > >This part (or some other type from Delta) may solve your problem. Note how >it is fastened to the back of the tray (with holes through flanges) and the >fact that the coax cable gets routed directly into the fitting at a 90 >degree angle. > >Delta can be reached at 978-927-1060 or sales@deltaarf.com > >Good luck. > >OC > >PS: I never did get compatible straight fittings. > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:56 AM PST US From: "Ronald J. Parigoris" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ideas on Painting Panel --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" Thx. for all who responded. I will get hold of some supplies to sample test in near future. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:51 AM PST US From: "Ronald J. Parigoris" Subject: AeroElectric-List: How to light labels? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" Looking at Europa Panel, it sure would be nice to have labels for breakers and switches lighted. Is there some sort of illuminated lets say EL or flat LED that can be engraved or printed on? Perhaps some sort of stick on engraved mini label that can be lit with a surface mount LED or lit from behind? Is there such a thing as a mini Black light or UV LED where you can make labels with a coating that will glow? Other ideas? Thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:27:47 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wire Separations From: Jim.Piavis@sybase.com 09:27:16 AM --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim.Piavis@sybase.com Bob, I have several wire/cable runs that will need to run under the baggage and seat floors in an RV-7. So far I have: Flap Motor Strobe cables to power supply Strobe power supply power from main bus Tail Nav Light power Pitch Trim (RAC) cable bundle Pitch Servo (TruTrak autopilot) Transponder Antenna RG-400 What can I bundle together? The only constraint I know of is a possible separation of the autopilot servo wires from the strobe cabling. I would like to divide these into two bundles with XPNDR coax and Autopilot in one, then the other in the second bundle. Regards, Jim Jim Piavis RV-7 Mountain View, CA ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:28:21 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: KX-125 Problem Solved From: "Nightingale Michael" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Nightingale Michael" A couple listers recommended we check to make sure there was a jumper > between Pins H and J. Sure enough.... no jumper! The builder/owner had > indeed overlooked the jumper when he wired/installed the harness. This jumper is between VOR/LOC in & VOR/LOC out. It then must go to remote devices. Was flag at the VOR/LOC CDI in the center of the KX125 or in a remote CDI? I'm running a KX125 as a stand alone, is the jumpper still needed? Thanks Michael V. Nightingale @ DEERE & Co. Computer Center 400 19th ST MOLINE, IL. 61265 309-314-6806 cell NightingaleMichaelV@JohnDeere.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Wayne Sweet Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KX-125 Problem Solved --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Sweet" Jack, Could you give a source for the NAV antenna, web address please. Thanks. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Lockamy" Subject: AeroElectric-List: KX-125 Problem Solved > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jack Lockamy > > > Just wanted to report back on a recent post I made to the List... too many > times I never see any "fixes" getting reported back to the group. > > The RV-7A I'm currently flying for my buddy (23.2 hours and counting...) > has a KX-125 installed. Comm works great, NAV always showed 'FLAGGED'. > > A couple listers recommended we check to make sure there was a jumper > between Pins H and J. Sure enough.... no jumper! The builder/owner had > indeed overlooked the jumper when he wired/installed the harness. > > Jumper was installed. NAV works as good as the comm now. BTW.... the NAV > antenna is a Bob Archer NAV antenna mounted in the RT wingtip. This thing > was picking up VORs located on the other side of hills were flying AWAY > from!!! Amazing.... > > Thanks again. > > Jack Lockamy > Camarillo, CA > Test Pilot N174TY > > > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 671 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now! ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:13 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ideas on Painting Panel --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 1/7/2005 11:14:49 A.M. Central Standard Time, rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US writes: Thx. for all who responded. I will get hold of some supplies to sample test in near future. Ron Parigoris Just a question, have you ever owned an airplane with a panel that had crinkle paint? I hate that finish! Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Airpark LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:17 AM PST US From: "Chuck Jensen" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Digital Photos --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" Bob, What do you use for camera/lense and any special settings for the photos you provide. We (at least me) would appreciate some clues on how to get digitals with the same sharpness and fine detail. Thanks Chuck Note: Reposted since unsure whether server sent email out the first time. Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:33 AM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Ideas on Painting Panel --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" I'm curious, why do I have one of the only RV's I've seen with a flat black panel? I wouldn't consider anything else. There is enough glare with other junk in the cockpit, why create more? Alex Peterson RV6-A 563 glare-free hours, see link below Maple Grove, MN http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/panel.htm ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:14 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ideas on Painting Panel --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 1/7/2005 12:42:16 P.M. Central Standard Time, alexpeterson@earthlink.net writes: I'm curious, why do I have one of the only RV's I've seen with a flat black panel? I wouldn't consider anything else. There is enough glare with other junk in the cockpit, why create more? Good Afternoon Alex, I think it is best if you have the panel painted just the way you like it. Sixty years ago almost all instrument panels were flat black. When I started in the business it was so. When we got the first Douglas DC-6s, they came from the factory with a flat grey color on the panel. Many folks thought that glare would be a problem. As the years went by, most airlines switched away from the flat black. The same is true for most spam can manufacturers. Boeing entered the glass cockpit era with the Boeing 767 and it came with a flat beige color panel. So far, I like the flat beige the best, but who knows what will be next. The only one I really despise is the flat black crinkle finish. Isn't it nice that we can all paint our panels any way we want? Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Airpark LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:54 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ideas on Painting Panel --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > I'm curious, why do I have one of the only RV's I've seen with a flat black > panel? I wouldn't consider anything else. There is enough glare with other > junk in the cockpit, why create more? Personally I like higher contrast, i.e. dark instruments on a medium gray panel. Not a big fan of black panels. Just my 2 cents. http://images.rvproject.com/images/panel/panel_640x210.jpg When I take photos, I get more glare from the instrument details & throttle quadrant on the canopy than the panel itself. I find there's only really one angle where I get a lot of glare -- down and to the left: http://images.rvproject.com/images/2004/20040622_boston3.jpg Most other angles I don't get any glare at all: http://images.rvproject.com/images/2004/20041122_mountains9.jpg FWIW, I'm very happy with my Canon PowerShot A75 that I got a few months ago. Reasonable price (less than $200), and more camera feature-wise than I really need. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:52 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ideas on Painting Panel --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Gotta agree with you on this. I'm planning on a flat black panel as well, mainly because I read a report by NASA or some other reputable organization that says it's the best color to use, and the F16 has a black panel. http://www.chez.com/lucskyflyer/Images/Etats-unis/F18/f18-cpt.jpg http://www10.plala.or.jp/strgzr/swiss/sion/ch/f18_c.jpg You never know, the Swiss AF might call me up to help them out, and being used to the black panel will help speed my transition from the RV8 to the F16. :-) The main problem I have with the black panel is finding a decent way to label it. If you have some hints, they are most welcome! Mickey Alex Peterson wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > > > I'm curious, why do I have one of the only RV's I've seen with a flat black > panel? I wouldn't consider anything else. There is enough glare with other > junk in the cockpit, why create more? > > Alex Peterson > RV6-A 563 glare-free hours, see link below > Maple Grove, MN > > http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/panel.htm > -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 Wiring do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:04 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ideas on Painting Panel From: "Matt Prather" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" If you aren't trying to fly the airplane and take pictures at the same time, a piece of black cloth is a pretty manageable way to keep from getting a bunch of glare in the frame. Hold the camera and part of the cloth with one hand, and extend the cloth along the window to block the glare. Regards, Matt- > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > >> I'm curious, why do I have one of the only RV's I've seen with a flat > black >> panel? I wouldn't consider anything else. There is enough glare with > other >> junk in the cockpit, why create more? > > Personally I like higher contrast, i.e. dark instruments on a medium > gray panel. Not a big fan of black panels. Just my 2 cents. > > http://images.rvproject.com/images/panel/panel_640x210.jpg > > When I take photos, I get more glare from the instrument details & > throttle quadrant on the canopy than the panel itself. I find there's > only really one angle where I get a lot of glare -- down and to the > left: > > http://images.rvproject.com/images/2004/20040622_boston3.jpg > > Most other angles I don't get any glare at all: > > http://images.rvproject.com/images/2004/20041122_mountains9.jpg > > FWIW, I'm very happy with my Canon PowerShot A75 that I got a few months > ago. Reasonable price (less than $200), and more camera feature-wise > than I really need. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:15 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ideas on Painting Panel --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > says it's the best color to use, and the F16 has > a black panel. > > http://www.chez.com/lucskyflyer/Images/Etats-unis/F18/f18-cpt.jpg > > http://www10.plala.or.jp/strgzr/swiss/sion/ch/f18_c.jpg Looks like a gray panel (and cockpit) to me, not black. Black instruments on gray. do not archive )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:24 PM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: AeroElectric-List: coax center pin crimping --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Hi, I've got the recommended coax connector show on this page: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/coaxconn/crimpcm.jpg I also have a tool that will crimp the outer sleeve, but what should I use to crimp the center pin? Thanks, Mickey -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 Wiring ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:39:11 PM PST US From: "Bobby Hester" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: coax center pin crimping --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bobby Hester" > -----Original Message----- > From: Mickey Coggins > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 21:11 (CDT) > Subject: AeroElectric-List: coax center pin crimping > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > > Hi, > > I've got the recommended coax connector show on this page: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/coaxconn/crimpcm.jpg > > I also have a tool that will crimp the outer sleeve, but > what should I use to crimp the center pin? > > Thanks, > Mickey http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?9X358218#RCT-2 http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bnccrimp.pdf ------- Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY RV7A web site: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:42:45 PM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ideas on Painting Panel --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins >>says it's the best color to use, and the F16 has >>a black panel. >> >> http://www.chez.com/lucskyflyer/Images/Etats-unis/F18/f18-cpt.jpg >> >> http://www10.plala.or.jp/strgzr/swiss/sion/ch/f18_c.jpg > > > Looks like a gray panel (and cockpit) to me, not black. Black instruments > on gray. > Gee, you're right. That panel is so stuffed with black instruments that I thought the panel itself was black. -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 Wiring do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:26 PM PST US From: "Paul Messinger" Subject: AeroElectric-List: LOAD dump comments --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" Ken, I had posted a few days ago that 3 1.5k 18V units was a far easier part to find and just as good, in fact based on testing, Better than one 5K 18v unit and in-stock most everywhere. Eric has a packaged assy that is easier to install but a few more $$. You also point out something I have been holding back for the report. Its not when you command something to happen its when it finally takes place. Consider the 3 position switch Bob suggests for off, battery and battery and alternator. Then use a Kilovac contactor for the battery and a auto starter contactor for the alternator "B" lead. The Kilovac opens in under 10 ms the auto contactor around 50 ms. If you rapidly throw the toggle switch from alt to off you can generate a load dump for nearly 40 ms with no battery to absorb the current surge and have potentially high system voltages. 40 ms is quite long enough to damage equipment considering the potential voltage increase. Its worse if you have the standalone OVP and an internally regulated alternator IF the OVP trips during flight; here is what happens. (This combo is not recommended as I understand by Vans. And I agree! at least with any type of crowbar OVP device.) 1. The OVP trips from real OV, not real OV, or fails and trips. 2. The design is such that this produces a dead short on the battery and currents of 400-700+ AMPS result during the 50-80MS it takes for the 5 amp CB to trip open. 3. During this shorted condition the bus voltage drops and the alternator goes to FULL on in an attempt to correct the low voltage. 4. Then the CB opens and the alternator "B" lead contactor opens and the alternator is still recovering from the "FULL" output condition as a full load reduction can take 200ms and a nominal reduction in load can take 100ms to recover from. Thus the Crowbar OVP action not only shorts the buss it creates a load dump, neither action is desirable or necessary. OVP protection does not need to be crowbar in nature and surely not a unlimited current short. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator control switch clamav-milter version 0.80j on juliet.albedo.net > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken > > It may be a little more complicated for an internal vr alternator. Yes > you need to switch off the power to the ov contactor after flight. If > using a double pole Batt/Alt switch for that, you would be at idle when > you turned it off during normal ops and it should not be a problem. > > However if the DP switch is erroneously turned off in flight and the > batt contactor opens before or simultaneously with the ov contactor, it > seems to me that there will be a major load dump and I did not want that > risk with an electrically dependant EFI engine. So perhaps a separate > guarded ALT switch still makes sense in some cases. > > Ken > (still looking for a source for the 5KP18, the mouser site says to > expect 14 weeks for a backorder) > > snip > > >This is how I wire things. The battery master switch is a double-pole > >unit with one pole controlling the battery contactor and the other > >controlling the alternator field. You can't turn off the battery with > >the alternator left on. If you really need the alternator off, pull the > >alternator field breaker. > > > >snip > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:44 PM PST US From: "Bobby Hester" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LOAD dump comments --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bobby Hester" > -----Original Message----- > From: "Paul Messinger" > To: > Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 09:04 (CDT) > Subject: AeroElectric-List: LOAD dump comments > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" > > Eric has a packaged assy that is easier to > install but a few more $$. > > > Its worse if you have the standalone OVP and an internally regulated > alternator IF the OVP trips during flight; here is what happens. (This combo > is not recommended as I understand by Vans. And I agree! at least with any > type of crowbar OVP device.) Ok, so let me get this right. If I add the "Whackjack" http://www.periheliondesign.com/whackjack18.htm to my currently installed Vans 60amp internally regulated alternator and Bob Nuckolls OV protection setup which includes a crowbar, then I will be ok and I won't fry my alternator. I don't mind paying a little extra for a part, if I know it is going to do the job, because somebody has done the test and knows that it will do the job. You guys spent some time working on this. What about it Bob Nuckolls, is this going to do what we need it do? Does it have your blessings? ------- Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY RV7A web site: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:46:30 PM PST US From: Joel Harding Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ideas on Painting Panel --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joel Harding There is a big difference in glare factor between an airliner panel and an RV. Due to the relatively narrow glare shield, and bubble canopy, the RV with a light colored panel is going to expose you to a lot more reflectivity. Like you Bob, I like the looks of the light colored panels, but I'm not sure I would want to put up with all those reflections produced in the RV. But hey, what ever floats your boat. Joel Harding (Charcoal colored panel) On Jan 7, 2005, at 11:52 AM, BobsV35B@aol.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com > > > In a message dated 1/7/2005 12:42:16 P.M. Central Standard Time, > alexpeterson@earthlink.net writes: > > I'm curious, why do I have one of the only RV's I've seen with a flat > black > panel? I wouldn't consider anything else. There is enough glare > with other > junk in the cockpit, why create more? > > > Good Afternoon Alex, > > I think it is best if you have the panel painted just the way you like > it. > > Sixty years ago almost all instrument panels were flat black. > > When I started in the business it was so. When we got the first Douglas > DC-6s, they came from the factory with a flat grey color on the panel. > Many > folks thought that glare would be a problem. As the years went by, > most airlines > switched away from the flat black. The same is true for most spam can > manufacturers. Boeing entered the glass cockpit era with the Boeing > 767 and it > came with a flat beige color panel. > > So far, I like the flat beige the best, but who knows what will be > next. > > The only one I really despise is the flat black crinkle finish. > > Isn't it nice that we can all paint our panels any way we want? > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > AKA > Bob Siegfried > Ancient Aviator > Stearman N3977A > Brookeridge Airpark LL22 > Downers Grove, IL 60516 > 630 985-8502 > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:32 PM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ideas on Painting Panel --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 1/7/2005 3:47:14 P.M. Central Standard Time, cajole76@ispwest.com writes: There is a big difference in glare factor between an airliner panel and an RV. Due to the relatively narrow glare shield, and bubble canopy, the RV with a light colored panel is going to expose you to a lot more reflectivity. Like you Bob, I like the looks of the light colored panels, but I'm not sure I would want to put up with all those reflections produced in the RV. Could be. I have never flown an RV. However, I fly my Bonanza a lot at night. It has a light tan panel. I also had the pleasure of putting four and a half hours in a USAF T-38 a couple of years ago. It had a light grey panel and somewhat of a bubble canopy I think the light colored panels are much more comfortable to use and I have never noted any reflections due to them. As you say: "But hey, what ever floats your boat" Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Airpark LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:29 PM PST US From: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle) Subject: AeroElectric-List: [PLEASE READ NOW] - Addressing Upgrade At Matronics TONIGHT! --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle) Dear Listers, Tonight, Friday 1/7/2005 at 7pm PDT, I will be working with my Internet Service Provider to upgrade to a larger IP subnet. I will be re-addressing all of the machines on the network including the Matronics Web Server and Matronics Email Server at that time. Name Service will be updated at that time as well and most things should work again pretty quick. There may be some bounced email for a few hours or even a day or so as the new name-to-ip-address resolutions propagate into the depths of the Internet. If you have problems posting a message to one of the Lists or get a bounced message back, please wait a couple of hours and try sending it again. Generally, access to the web site should work within 1-hour of the update or around 8pm PDT. Hopefully the transition will go smoothly and you'll hardly even notice! :-) Thanks for your patience! Matt Dralle List Administrator -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:54 PM PST US From: "glaesers" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: How to light labels? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "glaesers" Ron, Here are some commercial options available: FiberLights: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/fiberlitelabels.php Glow strips: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/glowstrips.php (you can probably use these for backlighting) I've been playing with doing my own backlighting. I had a local trophy shop engrave a sample panel on a piece of black over white plastic (they have lots of colors if you want to get creative). I mounted it on a panel which was cut-out behind the words and put some bright LEDs behind it (superbrightleds.com). The words light up great. Add a dimmer and you're all set. You can even use colored LEDs (like red) if you don't like white at night. My test panel is an annunciator panel with LEDs (fault lights) mounted on the panel . The backlighting comes through the LEDs, which I don't like, so I'm working on a way to block that. I have some LED mounts coming which I hope will solve that problem. I'll let you know. On a switch panel, the switch body blocks wording close to the mounting hole (like ON and OFF) but you can put the name of the switch far enough away that it will light up just fine. I plan to make a test panel to see how this looks - haven't gotten there yet. To mount the backlight LEDs, my current thinking is to make a thin metal "Z" (only the bends are 90 degrees) and drill one leg to be a doubler behind the switches and mount the LEDs on the other leg. SuperbrightLEDs.com does have UV LEDs. I didn't think about that possibility. Well, that't my $.02 Dennis Glaeser ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:54 PM PST US Subject: RE:AeroElectric-List: coax center pin crimping From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Mickey the same crimper is used. It's the tiny hex crimper hole near the tip. Mike Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mickey Coggins Subject: [[SPAM]] AeroElectric-List: coax center pin crimping --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Hi, I've got the recommended coax connector show on this page: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/coaxconn/crimpcm.jpg I also have a tool that will crimp the outer sleeve, but what should I use to crimp the center pin? Thanks, Mickey -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 Wiring ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:52 PM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Ideas on Painting Panel --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com > > > In a message dated 1/7/2005 12:42:16 P.M. Central Standard Time, > alexpeterson@earthlink.net writes: > > I'm curious, why do I have one of the only RV's I've seen > with a flat black panel? I wouldn't consider anything else. > There is enough glare with other junk in the cockpit, why > create more? > > > Good Afternoon Alex, > > I think it is best if you have the panel painted just the way > you like it. > > Sixty years ago almost all instrument panels were flat black. > > When I started in the business it was so. When we got the > first Douglas > DC-6s, they came from the factory with a flat grey color on > the panel. Many > folks thought that glare would be a problem. As the years > went by, most airlines > switched away from the flat black. The same is true for most > spam can > manufacturers. Boeing entered the glass cockpit era with the > Boeing 767 and it > came with a flat beige color panel. > > So far, I like the flat beige the best, but who knows what > will be next. > > The only one I really despise is the flat black crinkle finish. > > Isn't it nice that we can all paint our panels any way we want? > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob Yes, Bob, I agree regarding the black krinkle, makes them look like a tool chest. Anyway, have you flown in a bubble canopy airplane like the RV? Most store bought airplanes do not have direct sunlight on the panel like the RV's do, so I might suspect that glare is more of a problem with them than in a conventional plane. To each their own... Alex Peterson RV6-A 563 hours Maple Grove, MN http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/ ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:11 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: BNC 90 Connectors --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: Charlie Kuss <>1/7/2005Hello Charlie, I can't find that part either using Delta's part finder search feature.I suggest that you get that picture in front of you on your computer and then call them up and ask them for help.I have examined the back side of my Garmin 430 since your request and am not that optimistic that that Delta connection will do the job for you. It looks more like a bulkhead connector is needed to fasten into the back of the 430. If there is such a thing as a BNC UG 90 degree bulkhead fitting with the plug and the jack in the right orientation that should do the job for you. I feel that there must be such a connection because there were hundreds of different UG connection configurations. The problem is findingthe mother lode of the pictures or diagrams of those connections so that you can pick the right one.Something from Delta may still be your best bet. Try the phone call.OC ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:15 PM PST US From: "earl_schroeder@juno.com" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Ideas on Painting Panel --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "earl_schroeder@juno.com" With over 1000 hrs in a Mustang II with a 'wrinkle painted' panel I can say it didn't bother us much. We didn't look at it much. Earl -- "Alex Peterson" wrote: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com > > > In a message dated 1/7/2005 12:42:16 P.M. Central Standard Time, > alexpeterson@earthlink.net writes: > > I'm curious, why do I have one of the only RV's I've seen > with a flat black panel? I wouldn't consider anything else. > There is enough glare with other junk in the cockpit, why > create more? > > > Good Afternoon Alex, > > I think it is best if you have the panel painted just the way > you like it. > > Sixty years ago almost all instrument panels were flat black. > > When I started in the business it was so. When we got the > first Douglas > DC-6s, they came from the factory with a flat grey color on > the panel. Many > folks thought that glare would be a problem. As the years > went by, most airlines > switched away from the flat black. The same is true for most > spam can > manufacturers. Boeing entered the glass cockpit era with the > Boeing 767 and it > came with a flat beige color panel. > > So far, I like the flat beige the best, but who knows what > will be next. > > The only one I really despise is the flat black crinkle finish. > > Isn't it nice that we can all paint our panels any way we want? > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob Yes, Bob, I agree regarding the black krinkle, makes them look like a tool chest. Anyway, have you flown in a bubble canopy airplane like the RV? Most store bought airplanes do not have direct sunlight on the panel like the RV's do, so I might suspect that glare is more of a problem with them than in a conventional plane. To each their own... Alex Peterson RV6-A 563 hours Maple Grove, MN http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/ ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:13 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: How to light labels? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 01/07/2005 7:59:36 PM Central Standard Time, glaesers@wideopenwest.com writes: To mount the backlight LEDs, my current thinking is to make a thin metal "Z" (only the bends are 90 degrees) and drill one leg to be a doubler behind the switches and mount the LEDs on the other leg. >>>> I had pretty good luck using project board cut into thin strips and mounted with 1/4" standoffs- the LEDs and resistors are soldered direct to the project board in gangs of 3 and 4, and shine through panel overlays cut by Steve Davis (Panel Pilot) in Memphis TN. Dimming is by PWM kit from Marlin Jones: http://www.mpja.com/productview.asp?product=4057+MD modified to remove the F/R switch and remote mounting a higher quality pot to the panel. I'd suggest doing some testing which LEDs to use here- I used the superbrights and they are just that- SUPER BRIGHT! I'd use standard ones next time... fotos on request... Mark Phillips