Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:22 AM - Re: Dynon Efis (Wayne Sweet)
2. 08:23 AM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS (Wayne Sweet)
3. 08:52 AM - Cat 5 (Glen Matejcek)
4. 09:00 AM - Re: panel mounted fuses.. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 11:07 AM - Re: Cat 5 (Maureen & Bob Christensen)
6. 12:05 PM - Re: panel mounted fuses.. (Tammy and Mike Salzman)
7. 02:23 PM - Re: panel mounted fuses.. (John Schroeder)
8. 04:31 PM - Re: Cat 5 (Robert McCallum)
9. 06:21 PM - Contactor identification (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 07:18 PM - The dragon is slain . . . or at least hog-tied. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 10:48 PM - WAAS or not (Rob Logan)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet@comcast.net>
Here's the link:
http://www.approach-systems.com/prod.asp
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Schlanser" <eschlanser@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon Efis
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Eric Schlanser
> <eschlanser@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Wayne,
>
> What is the FastStack of which you speak? I am unable to find a reference
> to it.
>
> Thanks, Eric
>
>
> Time: 07:36:45 PM PST US
> From: "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon Efis
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Sweet"
> <w_sweet@comcast.net>
>
> I have a Dynon EFIS D10A with OAT and magnetometer. <snip>
>
>
> Installation was a breeze, compared to that of the GNS430, GI-106A and
> PMA6000 audio panel. I would NEVER do that wiring again; FastStack
> would
> have made the 45 day trial by "fire" a 4 day delight.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
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Message 2
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet@comcast.net>
Dan,
If you dumped the DG and got the Dynon magnetometer option, you could also
dump the vacuum pump. This makes the aft end of the engine much more clear
for oil filter access AND, under the instrument panel the hoses and filter
for the vacuum gage are GONE!!!!! YEH!!!!!!
The back of my instrument panel is so much more accessible now with all that
garbage gone.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien@cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dynon EFIS
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien@cox.net>
>
> Haven't flown my Lancair ES yet, but fired up the Dynon (D10, the old
> version) in the panel for the first time yesterday. I've replaced my
> Attitude indicator with the Dynon, but have retained the five other
> standard instruments. I couldn't be more thrilled. For the price of an
> RC
> Allen AI, I've got an AI plus back ups for the five other instruments,
> plus
> some extras (voltage, g meter, timer), all on a single screen. It's also
> got 5 checklists which were simple to program and load. It was also
> simple
> to update the software from my laptop. The display is bright and
> readable,
> and my simple "garage test" (moving the panel up, down, sideways, and
> banking, as if in flight) suggests that it will be GREAT. Given the
> instruments newness and relative lack of experience in the field, I
> personally would not rely solely on the Dynon in IMC. The company (which
> seems to be "doing it right") says as much on its website. But as a
> replacement for a single instrument in a systematic instrument scan, I
> personally have no hesitation. I think it's a HUGE improvement over a
> single mechanical electric gyro because of the additional backups. It's
> reliability remains to be seen, but it is hard to imagine that a solid
> state unit like this won't do better than existing mechanical electric
> gyros, which do not seem to have a great track record.
>
>
>
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Message 3
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Hi All-
Can someone explain to me the significance of cat5 and or cat5e cable?
What makes it special? When would I want to use it vs a bundle of plain
old fashioned MS tefzel?
Thanks guys- I haven't found any help locally!
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: panel mounted fuses.. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:38 PM 1/14/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rob Logan <Rob@Logan.com>
>
>klixon 7277 breakers are $20 each
>http://www.ti.com/snc/products/controls/acb-7277.htm
>
>so when a switch is required, (lights, tube heat..)
>potter & brumfield switch/breakers seem to be
>the best option.
have you considered:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/fuseorcb.html
>but for items that just need wire protection
>and not a load shedding "off" option . . .
Why are you considering variables of selective
load shedding in flight? It's seems best to have
a simple array of planned activities to manage
energy consumption and to achieve fault tolerant
design. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev9/ch17-9.pdf
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/neveragain/neveragain_2.html
>, perhaps
>fuses would be ok. Found some fuses holders
>http://www.excess-solutions.com/FUSES.HTM
>and one even with fast on terminals
>http://www.excess-solutions.com/SpecSheets/c_fiz.pdf
>but I don't see an easy way to attach a bar across a
>row of them.. Plus it would be nice if one could swap
>fuses without a screw driver.
>
>have you find a better panel mounted fuse
>holder? (or a cheap source of klixons? :-)
Why would you WANT one?
Bob . . .
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Maureen & Bob Christensen" <mchriste@danvilletelco.net>
The only "Cat5" cable that I'm familiar with is for network (Ethernet)
wiring. I don't know if the make it in tefzel or not but I suppose they do.
Regards,
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cat 5
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek"
<aerobubba@earthlink.net>
>
> Hi All-
>
> Can someone explain to me the significance of cat5 and or cat5e cable?
> What makes it special? When would I want to use it vs a bundle of plain
> old fashioned MS tefzel?
>
> Thanks guys- I haven't found any help locally!
>
>
> Glen Matejcek
> aerobubba@earthlink.net
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: panel mounted fuses.. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tammy and Mike Salzman <arrow54t@yahoo.com>
Rob,
You might want to consider the following fuse holders.
http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M37/catalog/217_063
They accept the ATO/ATC automotive fuses. If your fingers are not too
fat, you can remove the fuses without tools. :) They can handle 200
total amps. I bought the rear terninal model and mounted on the far
right side of the panel.
Mike Salzman
LNCE
Fairfield, CA
--- Rob Logan <Rob@logan.com> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rob Logan <Rob@Logan.com>
>
> klixon 7277 breakers are $20 each
> http://www.ti.com/snc/products/controls/acb-7277.htm
>
> so when a switch is required, (lights, tube heat..)
> potter & brumfield switch/breakers seem to be
> the best option.
>
> but for items that just need wire protection
> and not a load shedding "off" option, perhaps
> fuses would be ok. Found some fuses holders
> http://www.excess-solutions.com/FUSES.HTM
> and one even with fast on terminals
> http://www.excess-solutions.com/SpecSheets/c_fiz.pdf
> but I don't see an easy way to attach a bar across a
> row of them.. Plus it would be nice if one could swap
> fuses without a screw driver.
>
> have you find a better panel mounted fuse
> holder? (or a cheap source of klixons? :-)
>
>
> Rob
__________________________________
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: panel mounted fuses.. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Rob & Mike -
We installed two of these Bussman fuse blocks in our panel. The nice part
about them is that you can take the snap-on cover off and get to the fuses
easily for maintenance. We bought the ones that are split buss types -
the Bussman Model 15710. The top stud feeds the first 20 fuses and the
bottom feeds the remaining 8. Good for a primary and endurance buss setup
or primary and avionics setup. David Swartzendruber is a builder like
us'ns. He also sells 14/6's for a very reasaonable price as a kit. Check
out his web page.
http://www.mihdirect.biz/
Or email him for more details.
"David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
Cheers,
John
> Rob,
>
> You might want to consider the following fuse holders.
>
> http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M37/catalog/217_063
>
> They accept the ATO/ATC automotive fuses. If your fingers are not too
> fat, you can remove the fuses without tools. :) They can handle 200
> total amps. I bought the rear terninal model and mounted on the far
> right side of the panel.
>
> Mike Salzman
> LNCE
> Fairfield, CA
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
Glen Matejcek wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
>
>Hi All-
>
>Can someone explain to me the significance of cat5 and or cat5e cable?
>What makes it special? When would I want to use it vs a bundle of plain
>old fashioned MS tefzel?
>
>
For the most part you wouldn't. Cat5 is for wiring your home computer.
(or your business network)
>Thanks guys- I haven't found any help locally!
>
>
>Glen Matejcek
>aerobubba@earthlink.net
>
>
Bob McC
Message 9
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| Subject: | Contactor identification |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>Comments/Questions: Dear Bob;
> Do you have the difference in A/C Starter vs Master solenoids.
>Measured values. How to tell the difference if not marked ? The coils should
>be the key, but what are their different values ???
> Thanks
Continuous duty contactors cannot survive if they dissipate more than 15
watts
or so internally . . . hence a battery contactor will generally draw 1 amp
or less (12 ohm coil minimum). An intermittent duty contactor may draw 3-5
times this current and will have a coil resistance under 6 ohms.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | The dragon is slain . . . or at least hog-tied. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
I think I mentioned that I've been extra ordinarily pre-occupied
with troubleshooting a tripping generator problem in a Beechjet for
the past few weeks. Thought I'd share some of the blood and gore
with our friends on the List.
The airplane has been out of service since about a month before
the Christmas shutdown. The owner's service shop worked on it for
three weeks. One of our techs went to join them for another week.
Left generator would trip every time a heavy load was switched on,
especially the air conditioner that has about 1000A inrush.
Right generator worked fine. EVERYTHING was swapped from side to
side, sometimes more than once. Problem stayed on left side. They
brought the airplane to Wichita and we dug into it a couple of days
before Christmas.
Interesting thing about working on bizjets is the EXTRA care one
must take to avoid scratching cabinets, poking holes in leather
seats, dropping solder blobs into the carpets, etc, etc. ANYTHING
you bugger in one of those airplanes is measured in WEEKS of pay.
Generator control circuitry is inside pressure vessel at rear of cabin so
I had test equipment and/or tools setting in about every seat
(after we covered them up). A bizjet makes a terrible research lab.
The thing weighs 10,000 pounds, costs several millions, has to be
maneuvered with a tug and crew of 4. You can't run the engines
at high power anywhere but at the compass rose or unused taxiway,
all of which were 1/2 mile or more from the hangar.
Over the three weeks I've worked it, we were dragged in and out of the
hangar about a dozen times. I built special breakout boxes to
instrument the system and educated myself on the idiosyncrasies
of this particular system. Crawling around in the aft cabin was
like working in the bottom of a 55 gallon drum. EVERY experiment was
a minimum two-hour to one-day turnaround.
We examined EVERY operational and physical aspect of the left
system and compared it with the right hand system . . .
I've got a stack of 'scope traces a half-inch thick!.
Upshot was that noise was getting into the ground fault detection
system. Ground fault detection was added to the local biz-jet
markets in the early 80s . . . I recall quoting some equipment
to Beech while working with Electro-Mech about that same time.
In the last few weeks of getting up close and personal with the
ground fault detection system, I've deduced that this "safety"
mandate has yet to keep any airplane from catching fire but has
generated $millions$ in troubleshooting costs. The cost of this
experience alone probably totals $30,000 and that doesn't include
lost revenue for down time of the asset.
Being dyed-in-the-wool electro-wienners, we were all looking
for an electronic problem. After deducing that the noise was
coming from one of the two ground fault transformers in the
system, we began to look at proximity effects. Turns out that
a bleed air tube was too close to the transformer's most
vulnerable deficiency . . . the upper corners where the cores
have brass-shimmed gaps to calibrate performance. Susceptibility
to external magnetic influences is greatest at these gaps.
Magnetic forces leaking from field ring of generator
were coupling to engine and inducing very low voltage
noises in engine components. Part of these noises flowed
out on the bleed air plumbing and coupled to the gap in
the transformer's magnetic core. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Too_Close.jpg
Moving the transformer 1" away from the bleed air
tube dropped the noise levels to 1/20th of what they
had been.
If this had been a modern, toroidal core transformer,
the problem would never have showed up. Seems that these
tubes are weldments (wide dimensional tolerances for
position) and include soft joints for expansion due to
heating. Not sure how they're going to get the spacing
back to the more usual 1" . . . but that's a job for
a power-plant guy. After three weeks of troubleshooting
in the bottom of a barrel in an ice storm, I'm ready
to hand the task over to someone else.
I think I've mentioned on the list several times that
there's not a noise problem out there that cannot be whipped.
Further, when it's fixed, the solution will turn out to
be stone simple in principle. However, just because it's
simple doesn't make it easy to understand and find.
Now, we still don't have true root cause . . . we don't
fully understand the mechanism by which this noise
propagates to the bleed air tube and ultimately to
the transformer. I'd really like to do the rest of the
science but as I said, a working bizjet is a terrible
and expensive research laboratory. Don't think they'd
let me have it for two more weeks after I told them
what was needed to make the machine airworthy again.
My superiors are eager for me to do a white-paper
on the experience to circulate around RAC service
centers . . . and probably do a lunchtime learning
presentation for my associates at RAC. Once the
"simple" is identified and understood, it behoves
us to spread the word to any who have an interest.
Looking forward to a tighter coupling with the List
in the near future.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rob Logan <Rob@Logan.com>
posted this on a lancair list, but you guys might
enjoy it too. -Rob
WAAS corrected GPS are all the rage. It offers:
1) takes GPS from 6.0m to 3.2m Horizontal accuracy with 95% confidence.
2) promise of newly written vertical LPV guided approaches.
3) promise of maybe getting "Sole means" en route blessing.
It's true WAAS improves accuracy:
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/Ftp/gps/status.txt
http://users.erols.com/dlwilson/gpswaas.htm
http://waas.stanford.edu/metrics.html
http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/dgps.htm
http://www.edu-observatory.org/gps/gps_accuracy.html
http://gpsinformation.net/exe/iono-day.gif Ionosphere temp
http://www.igeb.gov/sa/diagram.shtml
http://www.montana.edu/places/gps/lres357/slides/GPSaccuracy.ppt
http://www.montana.edu/places/gps/lres357/slides/GPSstatus.ppt
and I did find 9 airports with a LPV DA:
http://rob.com/airports/M/G/M
http://rob.com/airports/M/S/L
http://rob.com/airports/F/D/K
http://rob.com/airports/G/A/I
http://rob.com/airports/O/K/C
http://rob.com/airports/S/L/O
http://rob.com/airports/J/Y/O
http://rob.com/airports/H/E/F
http://rob.com/airports/O/S/H
Two of them with lower mins! so one does get greater capability today
with WAAS corrections. But this way over budget, way late government
project also came with a mild threat by Administrator Blakey at the AOPA
convention: "if you are slow to equip [with WAAS], there will be folks
who will say there aren't enough users in the system and push to move
the money away from developing and maintaining procedures for all those
airports I talked about."
http://www.faa.gov/newsroom/speeches/Blakey/2004/speeches_blakey_041021.htm
Users of http://www.freeflightsystems.com/ the first WAAS corrected GPS,
started complaining about losing position reports. Then CNX80 (second WAAS
corrected gps) users also started noticing failed in flight position
reports. When I started playing with a gps18, it worked fine on the
ground, but when I turned away from the southern sky it would freeze its
position. http://rob.com/lancair/flights/kirk/1gps.gif
What's going on here? While I'm not saying GPS is junk
http://www.gtwn.net/~keith.peshak/SatNavStatus.htm because we have been
using it reliably for years, but let's look closer at the WAAS
corrections: with 25 ground reference stations
http://gpsinformation.net/exe/waas-coverage-dale.gif
transmitting corrections to (Inmarsat IIIs: POR (Pacific Ocean Region)
http://www.lyngsat.com/tracker/inmar3f3.shtml or
AOR-W (Atlantic Ocean Region-West)
http://www.lyngsat.com/tracker/inmar3f4.shtml
These satellites are 22,300 miles above the equator vs 12,600 miles
mostly over our head. If we look at the angle of the satellite TV
dishes in our neighborhood, they point low on the horizon to get a
satellite above the equator. That one signal is going twice as far,
through more ionosphere. And unlike your satTV dish, the antenna must
be omni directional, making it impossible to achieve any forward gain.
When we lose this one signal, we lose the whole position solution.
So is going from 6.0m to 3.2m with 95% accuracy worth the increased loss of
availability? Wouldn't we increase safety by providing some information
rather than no information? (this is a big one for the FAA)
Perhaps with some new antenna technology, my point will be mute, but the
3 WAAS receivers I've tried, and all unlocked without southern sky.
Heck, this new magic antenna will increase the reliability of
wsi and xm weather service, as they face the same weak signal challenge,
and are unavailable in an uncorrected way. (the weather service, Merlin,
failed because they couldn't make an antenna that worked)
Is accepting the added risk of a more complex system worth it?
FADEC vs mags
EFIS vs HSI
WAAS vs GPS without corrections.
Bonus question: is a TSOed C129A receiver with Receiver Autonomous
Integrity Monitoring (RAIM) better than a 12 channel all in the sky
receiver?
BTW, http://d2av.com has been offering barro corrected GS below MDA
from FAF to MAP on *all* approches for 5+ years, without WAAS or a TSOed GPS,
but please stay legal.
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