Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:13 AM - Rocker switch for DC? (Phil White)
2. 02:20 AM - Re: Open letter to the list (Greg Young)
3. 05:15 AM - Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting (rd2@evenlink.com)
4. 05:27 AM - Re: Open letter to the list (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
5. 06:15 AM - Re: Open letter to the list (Gerry Holland)
6. 06:52 AM - Re: 11889 Harmon (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 07:01 AM - Re: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting (Richard Dudley)
8. 07:01 AM - Re: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent (Charlie Kuss)
9. 07:23 AM - Re: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting (Glaeser, Dennis A)
10. 07:50 AM - Re: Re: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting (Chuck Jensen)
11. 07:51 AM - Re: Open letter to the list (David Carter)
12. 07:51 AM - Re: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting (John Schroeder)
13. 08:12 AM - Re: Re: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting (John Schroeder)
14. 08:12 AM - Re: Open letter to the list (David Carter)
15. 08:17 AM - Re: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting (Richard Dudley)
16. 08:24 AM - Re: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting (Richard Dudley)
17. 08:28 AM - Re: Open letter to the list (Mickey Coggins)
18. 08:41 AM - Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting (rd2@evenlink.com)
19. 08:53 AM - Re: Open letter to the list (Ted Palamarek)
20. 09:35 AM - Re: Rocker switch for DC? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 10:57 AM - Re: ELCHEAPWIRE switch. (Eric M. Jones)
22. 11:03 AM - Re: Microair 760N to Flightcom 403 (Steve Sampson)
23. 11:10 AM - Re: Open letter to the list (Glaeser, Dennis A)
24. 12:42 PM - DC rated switches (Joel Jacobs)
25. 12:42 PM - Re: Open letter to the list (Richard Talbot)
26. 01:17 PM - Re: DC rated switches (George Neal E Capt AU/CCP)
27. 01:25 PM - Toggle switches with lock (Carlos Sa)
28. 01:31 PM - Re: Open letter to the list (Chuck Jensen)
29. 01:51 PM - Re: DC rated switches (Joel Jacobs)
30. 01:54 PM - Shrink tube expanding? (Ronald J. Parigoris)
31. 02:13 PM - Re: DC rated switches (Matt Prather)
32. 02:18 PM - Re: DC rated switches (923te)
33. 02:19 PM - Re: Toggle switches with lock (SportAV8R@aol.com)
34. 02:39 PM - Re: DC rated switches (BobsV35B@aol.com)
35. 02:39 PM - Re: Shrink tube expanding? (Rob Housman)
36. 02:59 PM - Re: DC rated switches (Scott Bilinski)
37. 03:31 PM - Re: Shrink tube expanding? (Ronald J. Parigoris)
38. 04:10 PM - Re: DC rated switches (Jerry Grimmonpre)
39. 04:39 PM - Re: Tools for knurled switch nuts (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
40. 04:44 PM - Re: Shrink tube expanding? (John Schroeder)
41. 04:58 PM - Re: Magician with a EE (Eric M. Jones)
42. 05:12 PM - Re: Re: Tools for knurled switch nuts (John Schroeder)
43. 05:31 PM - Re: DC rated switches (Ken)
44. 05:38 PM - Re: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting (Dj Merrill)
45. 06:15 PM - Re: Re: Tools for knurled switch nuts (Brian Kraut)
46. 07:27 PM - Re: Re: Re: Slippery Stuff ()
47. 08:09 PM - Re: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting (Richard Dudley)
48. 11:02 PM - Re: Open letter to the list (Gregory Young)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Rocker switch for DC? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil White" <philwhite9@aol.com>
Saw the below listed switch on ELCHEAPWIRE's web site, and wonder if it
is suitable for DC.
http://www.elwirecheap.com/glowingstuff/sirosw.html
They make outrageous claims for current capability (obviously haven't
read Aerolectric's basics on electricity).
My question is: Can anyone steer me to a source of Rocker Switches in
round mounting format suitable for 12 V DC? And in DPDT would be great.
The advantages I see over toggle switches are smooth surface for
accident safety. But most rocker switches require cutting square or
rectangular holes for mounting, and I can drill round ones much faster
and more accurately.
Phil in IL, RV-10 (building fuselage, starting to plan panel)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Open letter to the list |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
> >I believe one of the reasons this list has only a handful of active
> >participants is because opinions (and observations and anecdotal
> >evidence) are generally not welcomed. Anyone with the
> temerity post an
> >opinion gets met with a barrage of responses asking for supporting
> >data, reasoning, FMEA and a detailed analysis of why they
> hold such an
> >opinion. Few are willing to examine why they have reached an opinion
> >and fewer still are willing to actively debate it.
>
>
> Would you have it any different? Suppose I offered:
> "In my opinion, you should hand carve your prop from
> Tasmanian snagroot". I would hope that any OPINION
> can be supported by a discussion of simple-ideas that
> hold it up even if so simple as data showing hundreds
> of airplanes are flying with snagroot props. But wouldn't
> you be curious for more detail? Suppose all the airplanes were
> powered by big ol' rotaries that run 1000 RPM wide open?
> Would snagroot be suited for a prop that turns 2700 rpm?
> No matter how attractive the opinion might be to you, would
> it not be important to understand everything there is to
> know about it?
Sure, but it's a matter of degree. If you had said birch instead, knowing
that it's a commonly used wood for props, I would just accept it as a data
point, one person's opinion, and move on. I wouldn't expect a long treatise.
When I go to carve a prop I'll need to do some analysis of the aerodynamics
and loads and materials. If birch shows up as one of the suitable materials
I might use your opinion as a factor in its selection.
>
> So, if one is loath to offer an opinion because they're
> unable to support it, so be it. We as a society are
> immersed in unfounded opinion that comes at us from all
> directions. If someone is seeking to have an opinion
> validated or debunked, then offer it to the List as
> a question or hypothesis . . . then let the IDEA be
> attacked to see if it stands or falls. This isn't about
> preying on people's timidity or fears, it's about validating
> ideas. One can choose to be either participant or observer.
> However, nobody benefits from the question never asked or
> hypothesis never offered.
Unable is one thing, unwilling is another. If everything turns into a debate
it may simply not be worth the effort. Producing a reasoned argument takes
time. I applaud you for the time and effort you put into your replies. I
don't know how you find the time. But not everyone does nor does every
subject deserve it. I view it as don't start something you're not willing to
finish.
>
> >So if you aren't prepared for a Socratic bludgeoning you just don't
> >post. Socratic teaching can be intimidating and I suspect most will
> >avoid it if given the choice.
>
> It would be a very sad condition if that were the reason
> that over 1300 people don't post their own words to the
> Are they voyeurs who enjoy watching other people conducting
> technical dog-fights? I have to believe that most perceive
> value in observing some if not all of the discussions in
> progress. If one is looking for gladiators to champion,
> there are far more exciting fights over unfounded opinions
> to watch on TV - in full color with special effects and
> home theater surround-sound.
>
Hard to argue that people find some value in being on the list. The issue is
what value? I'm on some lists out of habit and familiarity with the
participants, some to gain knowledge of their topic and others just in case
something new comes up. So you have an hypothesis on the silent 1300 as do
I. What's the truth? I don't see a viable means of finding out. If we ask
them to respond, how many does it take to yield a valid answer? 50? 100?
200? I'd be almost impossible without a large percentage because it's a
biased sample. But does it matter? It's your list and your hypothesis
supports your approach.
>
> >I think it's a bit quixotic to believe that the non-posters
> are all on
> >some quest for knowledge and "clarity of vision." I'll bet most just
> >want to wire their airplane and are hoping someone else will
> ask their
> >question before they have to. They just want to know what
> parts to use
> >rather than how to design the ultimate system. Like Freud said
> >"sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." The final stages of
> completing an
> >RV (or other kit plane) are difficult because you're thrust into
> >unknown territory where suddenly nothing is designed or spec'd. Van
> >doesn't (or didn't) even provide a starting point. Bob's
> book is often
> >offered to fill that void. It's great on education but short on any
> >practical advice. If every homebuilder had to go through the
> same level
> >of design effort on the airframe as is suggested for the electrical
> >system, there wouldn't be any kit planes and darn few
> homebuilts at all.
>
>
> An EXCELLENT point . . . I've made multiple offers every
> year at OSH to every kit supplier I could find in the tents
> to craft a factory wire book for a Z-11 like system. They
> could recoup their costs in the first dozen kits of parts
> they could sell. After ten years of trying, I gave up
> and concentrated on the 'Connection, aeroelectric.com
> and ultimately the AeroElectric-List.
>
> That's exactly why the AeroElectric-List was started . . .
> to fill the gap between simple ideas (the book) and practical
> solutions (buying parts and bolting them to your airplane).
> When a list participant asks how to solve a particular
> problem with installation and fabrication, I expect that
> there may be multiple solutions . . . these are not opinions
> but manifestations of experience and common sense. If the
> solution works on someone's project, then that success is
> a simple fact - not an opinion to be debated. In case of
> multiple solutions there is perhaps room for debate
> but one can always ignore the debate and choose from the
> most attractive of the demonstrated solutions.
>
It's a shame no one took you up on it. I still think there's a void though.
When you get to the finishing stage of a project its hard to stop to design
an electrical system. You really want something that allows you to keep
progressing. You need that initial plan to lock into and modify before you
can ask questions. Until then you don't know what you don't know. There
really isn't anything to satisfy that initial need. I used your Z drawings
and pieced together the rest from the Connection and other sources. That was
years ago but recent posts lead me to believe the situation hasn't changed.
>
> >Don't get me wrong, I've taken away some valuable ideas but
> at a cost
> >far greater than I think necessary. Take the e-bus idea. To
> implement
> >it you need a diode. What diode? Well any xx amp or a
> Scholtzky (isn't
> >that a sandwich shop?) or a bridge rectifier or some such,
> or just get
> >any old diode at Radio Shack. No sample part numbers. Can
> you conceive
> >how un-helpful that is to the electron-challenged, like me? OK, I
> >bought a part that looks like one I saw in a picture but I
> still don't
> >really know if it's right. Then how do I wire it? Get out
> the VOM and
> >test all four legs till I find a path that works. I bet that
> chamfered
> >corner would give me a clue for the hook-up but there's no
> description
> >of it in the "book" and 30 yrs after
> >EE101 I can't decipher the schematic. All told, probably 3 hours
> >messing with a 5 minute task and no net knowledge gained.
>
> Why didn't you post a question on the List? Have you looked
> over B&C's offerings of a suitable diode on their website?
> Have you seen note 12 of appendix Z of the 'Connection where
> a Radio Shack 276-1185 is suggested? There's some discussion
> of the diode bridge rectifier on page 1-9 of the 'Connection.
> You could have e-mailed me directly and received a specific
> suggestion sans tributes to Socrates where I would have
> referred you to a picture at:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/s401-25.jpg
>
> and suggested the Radio Shack p/n.
>
My experience was ~5 years ago so it's good to know that's changed.
>
> >I believe the pedantic style of this list does a disservice to the
> >broader OBAM community by not offering practical, how-to advise. The
> >glowing exceptions are Bob's picture books, but even those
> are hard to
> >find. Why aren't they in the "book"?
>
> If I were to put everything "in the book" as multiple figure,
> full color pictures, it would be three times as thick and sell
> for 5x the price. The website servers offer a way to put huge
> amounts of visual data up at ZERO cost to the reader. If I
> operated as you suggest, very few people would buy the book.
> Hard to find? Just ask . . . or download the free website image
> from http://www.aeroelectric.com/CD/AEC8_0.zip and browse the
> articles and images at your leisure.
>
Sorry, I was a little too brief. I meant those tips and techniques were
valuable subject matter and suited for publication but don't mean to impose
a burden on you to do it. Although I'm a geek I prefer thing like that on
paper. You could talk to Andy at the Builders Bookstore to see if he's
interested in publishing it.
> >I would have killed for some of them when I wired my first RV but if
> >they existed then I was not aware of them. I think there's a
> real need
> >for an OBAM version of AC43.13, i.e. 21st century acceptable methods
> >and practices, not theory. As much as I view Greg Richter as a snake
> >oil salesman, I think he offered a valuable <> to the needs
> of a large
> >segment of the OBAM world. Every airplane's electrical
> system does not
> >have to be custom designed. There are >4000 RV's flying -
> surely they
> >all don't have to be different. It should really be OK to do
> something
> >less than optimal as long as it's still within the bounds of
> safe and
> >acceptable solutions. Bob's response to Richter's paper was
> an eloquent
> >restatement of Bob's philosophy but really just came down to an
> >antithetical preference, custom design everything vs
> one-size-fits-all.
>
> Absolutely not so. Had someone handed me a box full of
> parts and his
> document . . . I could not tell how those parts go together and
> exactly how they served as alternatives to "atrocious
> work" driven
> by the 'Connection.
>
> His document contained no data nor a rational explanation behind
> the philosophy of the proposed architecture. I studied
> his drawings
> in detail and could not deduce what he was suggesting. Unlike
> discussions here on the List, he refused to answer a
> single one of dozens
> of specific questions aimed at clarifying his suggestions.
>
> You want a one size fits all? Figure Z-11 is it. This
> fits the needs
> of perhaps 90-plus percent of all builders. The fact that options
> beyond this configuration are offered doesn't mean they need to
> be agonized over. I thought chapter 17 offered food-for-thought
> and options to consider should a builder want more. The
> reason for crafting Z-11 and placing it first in the
> architectures is because it's probably going to do the job
> for the vast majority of builders.
>
> > Are there only the extremes? Or is there a middle ground?
>
> Yup, figures Z-12, and Z-13 are all middle grounds between
> Z-11 and Z-14. Then there are some very simple cases wherein
> alternators supplied on Rotax and LOM engines drive you to
> something simpler yet than Z-11.
>
We obviously have a different take on what Greg said. Even I disagree with
some of his technical points but I see value in his intent (my view of it
anyway) of saying "do these things and you'll have a safe and workable
system."
> >To really advance the state of
> >the OBAM fleet is going to require getting a high percentage of new
> >aircraft to embrace a higher standard.
>
> Not sure what you mean by "standard" . . . to my way of thinking,
> the OBAM aircraft community is going to thrive because
> there are NO STANDARDS. New ideas can be tried and retained or
> discarded on a whim. Folks who are adventuresome and/or have
> larger missions are free to expand their project's capabilities
> beyond anything offered by BePipCesMo without disturbing the
> majority of folks who will be happy with a Vans or Bengelis
> approach.
>
Don't take a knee-jerk reaction to the word standard, I didn't refer to
regulation.
Noun: standard
1. A basis for comparison; a reference point against which other things
can be evaluated
2. The ideal in terms of which something can be judged
Pick another term if standard offends you or implies regulation. How about
baseline, benchmark, criteria, measure, norm, yardstick?
>
> >And that's going to require making that standard both convenient and
> >accessible. The folks buying Van's electrical system kit aren't
> >consciously choosing a 1940's system, it's just all there is that's
> >convenient. Except for maybe the EXPbus;-) Most want
> something better
> >but their only other choice is design it themselves. Surely we can
> >offer something better, maybe not perfect, maybe not
> customized. Yeah,
> >that's compromise so I guess it's a terrible thing to do.
> Worst wins.
> >But doesn't worst win too if there are only a handful of "perfect"
> >examples and thousands of obsolete ones?
>
> You missed the point I was making concerning compromise . . .
> The ranges of features offered in the Z-figures are not compromises
> of each other but choices by which one may OPTIMIZE a system to
> fit a mission. To install figure Z-11 in a full-up, long-legged
> cross-country IFR machine like a Glasair or Lancair is not
> a compromise of electrical system but a compromise of the
> airplane's potential for conducting certain missions. You don't
> get those kinds of choices when you buy a nice ol' used C-210, it's
> wired just like a C-150. But if you want a day-vfr/occasional night
> fun-machine . . . Z-11 is a carefully considered solution flying in
> hundreds of airplanes. It's easy to morph into Z-13 if your
> mission grows and/or you get tired of stroking vacuum driven
> components.
>
> The words "standard" and "want something better" are diametrically
> opposed to each other in purpose and result. The FAA has given us
> standards and they've brought new development to its knees.
> On the other hand, those who truly want something better
> are getting
> it done in their basements and garages and leaving
> certified aviation
> trailing in the dust. Want OBAM aviation to fail? Set up any kind
> of standards for design and fabrication and an organization to
> oversee those standards. It doesn't have to be the FAA but it's
> a sure bet that a few decades hence, the FAA and any new
> organization set up to standardize OBAM aviation would be
> indistinguishable from each other.
>
>
> >Opinions offered with the utmost respect to all who contribute.
>
> I'm not sure I understand your difficulty with the List.
> If you like
> the EXP-Bus, you're certainly free to install one.
> Hundreds are flying
> and as far as I know, owners are happy with them. If you encouraged
> Greg to build you one of his one-size-fits-all boards for
> your project,
> he might be quite accommodating. The vast majority of OBAM aircraft
> builders are doing a clone of contemporary spam can architecture
> with Van's installation kit. They're going to be just fine.
> I don't expect them to perform any worse than the airplanes I
> MUST rent every time I want to fly somewhere.
I guess I don't understand why you don't understand. Just reread my post.
Even if you reject my beliefs, they nonetheless are the basis of my opinion.
I don't particularly care for the EXPbus but I can see why some would.
Likewise, I don't care for Greg's board but can see value in his view. I
find your comments about both in contradiction to comments to previous list
posters. I recall people being castigated for wanting to use the EXPbus.
Likewise for spam can architecture.
>
> The PRIMARY function of the List is to address exactly the
> issues you've raised. I'm sorry if you're cautious of getting
> splashed with blood from somebody else's dog-fight. However, I've
> noted multiple threads on the List discussing a variety of topics
> that seem to move ahead oblivious to conversations about
> herding electrons.
>
These posts should illustrate I don't care about the blood or who's dog
fight it is. I was offering my opinion/hypothesis on why so few post. I
don't have the knowledge to engage in technical debates with the hard core
EE types but felt I could here. On other topics I triage because I do care
about the time it takes.
> Sounds like what you're needing has nothing to do with sorting
> opinions but simply dipping into the pool of experience and
> common sense possessed by many folks here on the List. We are
> all at your service sir. How may we assist you?
>
> Bob . . .
>
My comments were never about my needs, at least not current. I was
addressing the silent 1300 needs as well as those not on the list who don't
know where to turn. I've built up a pool of resources but will certainly ask
if the situation arises.
Greg
Message 3
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| Subject: | Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
>
I purchased a little widget in the bargain basket
at WallyMart a few months ago. A small inverter about
1 x 1 x 1.5" driving a 36" segment of EL wire. It runs
from 12-16 volts DC and the entire length of wire lights
up. Could chunks of this stuff make nice ring lights
for steam gages? Maybe so. The EL tape might work for
under-the-glareshield flood lighting. Interesting stuff.
If somebody has the time/energy to explore this, I'd
be interested in putting an article about it up on
the website.
Bob . . .
>
Some time ago I purchased some wire, tape and inverters for experimenting.
Didn't have time to explore a lot (I've still got the energy but time is
precious - anybody got some time to sell cheap ? :)
Here is my feedback:
EL Tape makes for very nice lighted panel labels - printed reverse on a
transparecy ("white" letters on black background) and placed the EL tape
behind (tried various colors) - real nice and professional.
Also tried makikng rings (from EL wire) around gauges - I found light,
color, and intensity very suitable. Problem is I could not find an easy way
to implement EL wire instrument lighting in practice. UMA already makes
such EL lighted bezels (PMA'd) - they look like a spacer (between the
instrument and the panel) made out of plexiglass/acrylic/lexan/whatever -
on the side facing the instrument they are tapered and covered w/EL tape. I
found the result very nice: the instrument is lighted very evenly, no
reflections.
Using EL tape for under-the-glareshield flood lighting also works, I
remember seeing PMA'd EL lightstrips/glowstrips. I personally was not
impressed with the results in my case because the glareshield lip was not
sloping at the proper angle. Also, with a strip, one has to have more
light/intensity to light up every instrument as opposed to individual
instrument lighting (I personally like the latter option better).
As much as I like the EL idea, 2 reservations I have are radio interference
and safety (spark). EL wire/strip is a AC capacitor. The purpose of the
inverter is to produce suitable voltage and frequency combinations for the
given length (or range of lengths) (capacitance). Some inverters are at 100
Hz, others higher (I've come across 1-1.5 Khz inverters for EL). Voltage
can also vary, I've come across 90 V, 200, 400. Can the 1 Khz fed from the
inverter to the EL wire produce interference, e.g. in the intercom? I asked
the question, a manufacturer answered yes, they already had occasional
problems. Is there even a slight potential for a spark - yes there is. Do I
need 1 more potential source of problems, if I could avoid it? No. But
"Your mileage may vary". :)
For instrument lighting I'd rather prefer a plexiglass bezel tapered
inside, that I could light up with 1-2 LEDs. LEDs offer advantages - low
voltage (almost any), easy to dimm, various colors. Nulite makes such a
bezel, but they use a mini bulb, I'd prefer LEDs (and a different price -
the Nulite bezels retail for about $38-40 ea.). I think such 2-1/4 and
3-1/8" bezels for LED's could be made cheap in quantity and would have a
market - anybody know a source?
Rumen
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Open letter to the list |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 1/31/05 4:21:46 AM Central Standard Time,
gyoung@cs-sol.com writes:
> I was offering my opinion/hypothesis on why so few post.
>>>>
Here's another: Perhaps the majority of the "silent 1300" draw sufficient
knowledge & information from the matierial provided to make their OBAM aircraft
function just fine and don't need to post? I'd assume if they are reading this
that they know how to "send mail" or reply and hit "send"...
Mark Phillips - do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Open letter to the list |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
Hi!
>> I was offering my opinion/hypothesis on why so few post.
> Here's another: Perhaps the majority of the "silent 1300" draw sufficient
> knowledge & information from the matierial provided to make their OBAM
> aircraft function just fine and don't need to post?
I'm a lurker and very occasional questioner.
This list provides a wealth of information that I have incorporated into my
Aircraft. Tips and ideas have come from many and occasionally I wonder what
the hell people are on about. In those cases I quickly glance and move on
and forget that particular thread.
I enjoy Bob, Eric Jones, Brian Lloyd, Trampas and Old Bob, names that spring
to mind instantly. There are many others. There experience and slant on
things is great. Some things are not for me but having such a wealth of
ideas and opinions allows me to make an informed decision. The information
I'm pointed towards is great.
So I thank you all.
Regards
Gerry in UK
Europa 384 G-FIZY
Trigear with Rotax 912 and Arplast CS Prop.
Dynon EFIS, KMD 150, Icom A-200 and SL70 Transponder.
PSS AoA Fitted.
http://www.g-fizy.com
Mobile: +44 7808 402404
WebFax: +44 870 7059985
gnholland@onetel.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 11889 Harmon |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>Comments/Questions: Bob,
>I bought 2 battery cables a long time ago and now am ready to install them
>in an F1 Rocket. I bought 1 4AWG and 1 2AWG. Why did I buy 2 different
>sizes, and which one goes where? Did I just screw this up? The battery
>is behind the back seat, so I have a long run of cable. I am using your
>grounding block at the firewall.
I didn't know B&C was even supplying battery jumpers in 2AWG.
The recommendation is for 4AWG for both jumpers irrespective
of which wire is used for the rest of the system. This is for
flexibility and reduced stresses on battery posts. However,
if both jumpers are fabricated from welding cable (soft and
flexible) the 2AWG cable you have is fine.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Dudley <rhdudley@att.net>
Bob,
I found a local company in Orlando who sells both EL tape and the
inverters to power the tape. It looked attractive. I purchased a length
with the appropriate inverter, tried it out and decided to install it
under the glare shield in my RV-6A. It floods the instrument panel with
enough light to read the instruments. The tape comes in various widths
and has an adhesive back. I am using a 3/4" width. Though I have
individual lights on all instruments, I consider the EL tape as a low
current backup with maximum currents under 100 ma. So, I have connected
it to the battery bus making it completely independent of any other
circuitry. The power supply/inverter is connected to the battery bus
through a 100 ohm 5 watt rheostat as a dimmer.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
RV-6A readying for FAA inspection
Robert L. Nuckolls, III Lighting wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
Lighting
>
>At 04:36 PM 1/30/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
>>
>>1/30/2005
>>
>>Hello Fellow Builders, I provide the below URL for your inspection and
>>comment.
>>
>>http://www.elwirecheap.com/glowingstuff/index.html
>>
>>
>
> I purchased a little widget in the bargain basket
> at WallyMart a few months ago. A small inverter about
> 1 x 1 x 1.5" driving a 36" segment of EL wire. It runs
> from 12-16 volts DC and the entire length of wire lights
> up. Could chunks of this stuff make nice ring lights
> for steam gages? Maybe so. The EL tape might work for
> under-the-glareshield flood lighting. Interesting stuff.
> If somebody has the time/energy to explore this, I'd
> be interested in putting an article about it up on
> the website.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent |
Lighting
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net> Lighting
>snipped
>For instrument lighting I'd rather prefer a plexiglass bezel tapered
>inside, that I could light up with 1-2 LEDs. LEDs offer advantages - low
>voltage (almost any), easy to dimm, various colors. Nulite makes such a
>bezel, but they use a mini bulb, I'd prefer LEDs (and a different price -
>the Nulite bezels retail for about $38-40 ea.). I think such 2-1/4 and
>3-1/8" bezels for LED's could be made cheap in quantity and would have a
>market - anybody know a source?
>
>Rumen
Rumen,
I recently purchased FiberLite instrument rings from ACS. They cost about
$26 each, not the $38-40 that NuLite costs. I think you are confusing
NuLite and FiberLite. Nulite units are individually powered. FiberLite uses
fiber optic cable from a central source to feed up to 12 instruments from
one light source. FiberLite supplies their Light source with a standard
automotive # 194 bulb, I think you could easily replace it with a super
bright LED. Most builders will save money by purchasing the individual
FiberLite instrument rings (versus their "kit") See
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/fiberlite.php
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/nulite.php
http://www.nulite.net/
Charlie Kuss
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser@eds.com>
Regarding:
-----------------------------------------------------
>Hello Fellow Builders, I provide the below URL for your inspection
and
>comment.
>
>http://www.elwirecheap.com/glowingstuff/index.html
<http://www.elwirecheap.com/glowingstuff/index.html>
I purchased a little widget in the bargain basket
at WallyMart a few months ago. A small inverter about
1 x 1 x 1.5" driving a 36" segment of EL wire. It runs
from 12-16 volts DC and the entire length of wire lights
up. Could chunks of this stuff make nice ring lights
for steam gages? Maybe so. The EL tape might work for
under-the-glareshield flood lighting. Interesting stuff.
If somebody has the time/energy to explore this, I'd
be interested in putting an article about it up on
the website.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------
I've been playing around with various types of LEDs because I want to
backlight labels on my (and probably my son's) panel. This looks like it
has great potential for that application - so I will be getting some to play
with. I'll certainly let you know what I find (8x10 glossies with the
circles and the arrows - just like in Alice's Restaurant :-)
My biggest concern (due to lack of knowledge on these things) is noise in
the audio system potentially caused by the inverter. How would one test to
determine if this is going to be an issue? I'm nowhere near actually
building my panel, so the best field test I know to do at the moment would
be to plug it into the cigarette lighter of one of the spam cans I rent and
see if it causes any problems.
Since I'm going to be exploring anyway - let me know what needs to be done
to make it useful to the whole group. Feel free to contact me off-list.
Dennis Glaeser
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
Glaeser, Dennis A wrote...
My biggest concern (due to lack of knowledge on these things) is noise in
the audio system potentially caused by the inverter. How would one test to
determine if this is going to be an issue? I'm nowhere near actually
building my panel, so the best field test I know to do at the moment would
be to plug it into the cigarette lighter of one of the spam cans I rent and
see if it causes any problems.
Dennis,
I just installed the nulites and noise can be a problem (at least it was in my
install). The wires should be twisted (which I did) and it seems to be preferable
to run each light back to the source (which I didn't do), rather then daisy-chaining
them. If I recall correctly, it was also advised to avoid grounding
them to the radio stack. When all those things were done, my headset whine
turned to deafening silence.
Chuck
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Open letter to the list |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Open letter to the list
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James E. Clark"
<james@nextupventures.com>
>
> Interesting dialogue.
<snip>
> In both cases, **AFTER** I had read and digested the material (theory and
> practice), what I really WISHED FOR was a "here's how to make it work in
> your RV" "booklet/application note".
>
> Now this is NOT something I would expect from Bob ... no way, he's not in
> "the business". I would have liked to have gotten that from CV and I wish
> there was available *clear examples* of IMPLEMENTING Z-14 in an RV so I
> could have saved some time in both planes. (Yes, this would be limited to
an
> RV in value but the process could be repeated for other types.)
>
> Sooooo... how do we get to the next step? Well it seems that if each of us
> could make a simple drawing or a picture available of our implementations
in
> some common place, that would be really valuable to those coming along
> later. > Comments????
<snip>
> James
I have "the book" and I have saved LOTS of e-mails from this list that
provide insight and details for me to use as I craft my own RV-6 with
electrically dependent engine.
James's point - "how do we get to the next step? Well it seems that if each
of us could make a simple drawing or a picture available of our
implementations in some common place" hits the nail on the head.
- That "common place" cannot be some "manual mandated by FAA", as Bob
has pointed out.
- I have 16 builder created personal websites which document much of
their work. One has all his electrical diagrams on it - exactly what James
is talking about. Dan Checkoway's site says, "Since all aircraft builders
are encouraged to keep a builder's log, and since web stuff is second nature
to me, I decided early on that I would post my entire building experience
here on this site, photos and all. It's not my intent to provide instruction
on how to build an RV-7, but I do want to share my experience with other
builders in the hope that my photos and commentary might occasionally save
some poor soul a bit of aggravation by learning from my mistakes. Click any
of the links above the thumbnails below to dive right into the construction
log. Enjoy... "
- Then go to one of his pages, http://www.rvproject.com/20030705.html
and see lots of info and pictures on wiring.
The basic problem with getting from "here" to "builders' info-sharing
utopia" is knowing how to post stuff on the web.
- The first level is to save e-mails and lots of text and a few photos.
About all of us can do that.
- The next/ultimate level is to document stuff on a website and simply
give others the URL to that site or some page in it. THAT IS A SHOW STOPPER
for many. I spent some of my time and "yours" a year or two ago trying to
"break the code" on how to size photos (always the first question), then how
to post Autocad and Intellicad .dwg drawings of electrical
schematics/drawings. For a person starting from scratch, it is fairly
complex and daunting, takes time away from building to 1) learn how to post
on website and 2) actually post stuff to help others. NEXT STEP: A
"builders' guide to image generation and HTML/web stuff". I have my own
embryonic folder of info, but not yet organized enough and memorized enough
that it is easy enough for me to do very often.
Kevin Horton's website has his wiring info - TOTAL INFO for what he did! See
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=Electrical_system_drawings
David Carter
RV-6 (canopy)
Nederland, Texas
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Richard -
Does this company have a website? Or could you provide the phone number.
Thanks,
John
> I found a local company in Orlando who sells both EL tape and the
> inverters to power the tape.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Check out this website.
http://www.e-lite.com/techassist.htm
They are one of the better suppliers and have an entire section of
technical information. I downloaded it and made it into a .pdf file to
weed out the duplicative pages. They also respond to RFQ's so they can
make up a light for you in the width and length you need.
Cheers,
John
> I've been playing around with various types of LEDs because I want to
> backlight labels on my (and probably my son's) panel. This looks like it
> has great potential for that application - so I will be getting some to
> play
> with. I'll certainly let you know what I find (8x10 glossies with the
> circles and the arrows - just like in Alice's Restaurant :-)
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Open letter to the list |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Open letter to the list
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
<snip>
> It's a shame no one took you up on it. I still think there's a void
though.
> When you get to the finishing stage of a project its hard to stop to
design
> an electrical system.
> [ *** ] You really want something that allows you to keep
> progressing. You need that initial plan to lock into and modify before you
> can ask questions. Until then you don't know what you don't know. There
> really isn't anything to satisfy that initial need. I used your Z drawings
> and pieced together the rest from the Connection and other sources. That
was
> years ago but recent posts lead me to believe the situation hasn't
changed.
<snip>
> My comments were never about my needs, at least not current. I was
> addressing the silent 1300 needs as well as those not on the list who
don't
> know where to turn. I've built up a pool of resources but will certainly
ask
> if the situation arises.
>
> Greg
Greg, I complained about as much as anyone about Van's conscious decision
not to document builder complaints and suggestions (up until a year or two
ago when they got their a**s up out of the reach of the alligators and could
start doing it. There were problems that I was having that untold others
had also suffered and that should have been fixed, not let continue. I
finally got wiser and shut up complaining and just focused on
non-complaining submissions of revised drawings, areas to fix, etc.
You are complaining, in like vein, about lack of availability of concise
info on electrical system design and installation.
It's not a perfect world, is it? It only gets better when people contribute
something to make it better. Thank God for these lists and the great people
who help us in our awesome task of building some great flying machines.
David Carter
RV-6
Nederland, Texas
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Dudley <rhdudley@att.net>
I have to revise my statement about maximum current for my EL
installation. On reviewing my earlier measurments, I found a maximum
current of 160 ma for my EL glareshield strip.
RHDudley
Richard Dudley wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Dudley <rhdudley@att.net>
>
>Bob,
>I found a local company in Orlando who sells both EL tape and the
>inverters to power the tape. It looked attractive. I purchased a length
>with the appropriate inverter, tried it out and decided to install it
>under the glare shield in my RV-6A. It floods the instrument panel with
>enough light to read the instruments. The tape comes in various widths
>and has an adhesive back. I am using a 3/4" width. Though I have
>individual lights on all instruments, I consider the EL tape as a low
>current backup with maximum currents under 100 ma. So, I have connected
>it to the battery bus making it completely independent of any other
>circuitry. The power supply/inverter is connected to the battery bus
>through a 100 ohm 5 watt rheostat as a dimmer.
>
>Regards,
>
>Richard Dudley
>RV-6A readying for FAA inspection
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III Lighting wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
Lighting
>>
>>At 04:36 PM 1/30/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
>>>
>>>1/30/2005
>>>
>>>Hello Fellow Builders, I provide the below URL for your inspection and
>>>comment.
>>>
>>>http://www.elwirecheap.com/glowingstuff/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I purchased a little widget in the bargain basket
>> at WallyMart a few months ago. A small inverter about
>> 1 x 1 x 1.5" driving a 36" segment of EL wire. It runs
>> from 12-16 volts DC and the entire length of wire lights
>> up. Could chunks of this stuff make nice ring lights
>> for steam gages? Maybe so. The EL tape might work for
>> under-the-glareshield flood lighting. Interesting stuff.
>> If somebody has the time/energy to explore this, I'd
>> be interested in putting an article about it up on
>> the website.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Dudley <rhdudley@att.net>
Hi John,
The local company is called Luxury Lighting and their main customers are
custom limosine builders. Their phone number is 866-681-0072 and their
website is:
www.LuxuryLighting.net
Regards,
RHDudley
John Schroeder wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
>
>Richard -
>
>Does this company have a website? Or could you provide the phone number.
>
>Thanks,
>John
>
>
>
>
>>I found a local company in Orlando who sells both EL tape and the
>>inverters to power the tape.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Open letter to the list |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> ...
> [Small example ... I mounted the two PC680's on the firewall of an RV6 using
> the mounting gear from Van's and mounted the "Ford Regulators" each on the
> metal battery box. No big deal but seeing it *after the fact*, it was oh so
> simple but before the fact it required some head scratching to be sure all
> worked OK. Maybe this isn't a good example after all, but I think you get
> the point. :-) ]
>
>
> Comments????
>
I completely understand where you are coming from on this. I
had exactly the same thinking when I started wiring. I only
wanted a cookbook and a parts list. Trying to figure out the
electron thing was really not my bag, baby.
Since I'll be running an electrically dependent engine, I knew
that getting the design right was important. The engine
supplier provides exactly what I was looking for - a parts
list and a cookbook, and it is working fine in many airplanes.
However, there were just a few things I wanted to do differently
in my airplane, which led me to the aeroelectric connection book.
Yes, it's been an investment in trying to understand things, and
gather the bits and pieces. My schematic is a work in progress.
I am modifying and refining it with the help of many on this list.
I feel when it is completed it will be exactly what I am
looking for. Since it is based on a technically sound
foundation, one of the Z figures, most of the work has been
on implementation details.
The work required to do the wiring is actually less than I
had anticipated, and it is really a very rewarding part of
the construction. I think I would have missed a very fun
part of the project had I simply followed a cookbook.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
Message 18
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| Subject: | Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
Thanks for the links, Charlie
Rumen
Message 19
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| Subject: | Open letter to the list |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" <temco@telusplanet.net>
Here's another slant on the 1300 silent list members.
Haven't you fellows heard of a library. Not everything in a
library is true and not all is fiction --- as well most
people using a library are not contributors, they are users.
The list is the same. Read the daily postings and take away
the information that you think is of value to you. This will
be the first time I have posted to this list. However, I
have been on it for a long time and have used information
presented by various members. I even enjoy the banter going
on at the present time. Builders seek information and this
list helps provide it.
Ted Palamarek
Edmonton,
DO NOT ARCHIVE
<<<<SNIP>>>>
In a message dated 1/31/05 4:21:46 AM Central Standard Time,
gyoung@cs-sol.com writes:
> I was offering my opinion/hypothesis on why so few post.
Here's another: Perhaps the majority of the "silent 1300"
draw sufficient
knowledge & information from the matierial provided to make
their OBAM aircraft
function just fine and don't need to post? I'd assume if
they are reading this
that they know how to "send mail" or reply and hit "send"...
Mark Phillips - do not archive
===========
Contributions
other
===========
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list
http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list
http://www.matronics.com/aeroelectric-list
===========
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Rocker switch for DC? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:07 AM 1/31/2005 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil White" <philwhite9@aol.com>
>
>Saw the below listed switch on ELCHEAPWIRE's web site, and wonder if it
>is suitable for DC.
>
>http://www.elwirecheap.com/glowingstuff/sirosw.html
>
>They make outrageous claims for current capability (obviously haven't
>read Aerolectric's basics on electricity).
That WAS pretty amazing . . .
>My question is: Can anyone steer me to a source of Rocker Switches in
>round mounting format suitable for 12 V DC? And in DPDT would be great.
> The advantages I see over toggle switches are smooth surface for
>accident safety. But most rocker switches require cutting square or
>rectangular holes for mounting, and I can drill round ones much faster
>and more accurately.
I'm aware of no rocker with attractive quality that
mounts in round holes. My personal $low$ favorites are
featured at:
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T051/1170.pdf
They even offer multiple poles and some momentary versions.
Bob . . .
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: ELCHEAPWIRE switch. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:07 AM 1/31/2005 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil White" <philwhite9@aol.com>
>
>Saw the below listed switch on ELCHEAPWIRE's web site, and wonder if it
>is suitable for DC.
>
>http://www.elwirecheap.com/glowingstuff/sirosw.html
>
>They make outrageous claims for current capability (obviously haven't
>read Aerolectric's basics on electricity).
On the ELCHEAPWIRE website, they say:
"Great little two pole on-off switch rated 6amp at 250volt/10amp at 125 so
when your only running 12volts it will handle about 60amps" ....Or, [My
corrections in brackets.]
"Great little two[-]pole on-off switch[,] rated 6[ ]amp[s] at 250[ ]volt[s]
[ delete / ][;] 10[ ]amp[s] at 125[;] so when your [you're] only running
12[ ]volts it will handle about 60[ ]amps."
We should be clear that this is incorrect. The switch would explode like a
photon torpedo at 60 amps. Somebody used some odd mathematical guess based
on watts, but this is certainly wrong. In general switches carry amps, and
in specific it gets very complicated.
I sent them a note on this.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
Message 22
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| Subject: | Microair 760N to Flightcom 403 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <steve@lbho.freeserve.co.uk>
Merven - I recently installed a Microair 760N. It was confusing because the
manual was wrong though I found the correct info on their web site. If you
still need help contact me off line and I will dig things out.
Steve.
PS The radio works fine finally!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mervin
Friesen
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Microair 760N to Flightcom 403
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mervin Friesen" <mefriese@hsd.ca>
I'm certainly no expert, so my observation may not be accurate. But in the
instructions copied below, it says MC403 "Avionics Ground" to Microair Pin
2. On the Revision N diagram, pin 2 shows no internal connection. On
revision C, pin 2 is labelled Mic Lo. This is what led me to my request for
advice.
Thanks!
Mervin Friesen
Sonex #122
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Microair 760N to Flightcom 403
Which pins are changed? I've compared the latest download from Microair
with what I published in our in-house generated instructions and
the pinouts from the radio appear unchanged to me.
Bob . . .
> Referring to MC403 manual at:
> <http://www.flightcom.net/pdf/403mcManual.pdf> and 760VHF manual at:
> <http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/avionics/760imB.pdf>
>
> You connect: MC403 "Tramnsmit Key Line" to Microair Pin 7
> MC403 "Receive Audio" to Microair Pin 14
> MC403 "Transmit Audio" to Microair Pin 1
> MC403 "Avionics Ground" to Microair Pin 2
> and eliminate the avionics ground shown just to the right of the
> aircraft radio in the MC403 wiring. Ignore Micorair Pin 3, "COPILOT MIC
> HI" Ignore all headphone, microphone and push to talk wiring shown on the
> Microair wiring diagram including the intercom wiring to pin 5.
> Bob . . .
--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 23
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| Subject: | RE: Open letter to the list |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser@eds.com>
I started reading this list (and others) not quite a year ago. At that time
the main 'discussion' was about voltage regulators and charging AGM
batteries. When I subscribed, so I could ask some questions, my comment to
Matt was that these lists are more entertaining than "Must-See-TV". It's
still true.
The only part I don't enjoy is when someone gets nasty. The first time I
saw one of those, (just to show you how my demented mind works) I thought of
a Saturday Night Live skit where Dan Ackroyd and Jane Curtain were doing a
Point-Counterpoint takeoff (I'm dating myself a bit here). Jane went first.
I don't remember what she said, but it was some ridiculous diatribe. When
she was done, Dan just looked at her and said "Jane, you ignorant slut." It
was hilarious. So I think of that as I hit the Back or Del key when I see a
nasty-gram, and move on to the next message which is usually educational, or
entertaining, and often both.
Dennis Glaeser
---snip
>I even enjoy the banter going on at the present time. Builders seek
information and this list helps provide it.
>Ted Palamarek Edmonton,
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 24
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| Subject: | DC rated switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Joel Jacobs" <jj@sdf.lonestar.org>
For those that may be interested, I've found some nice toggle switches with
actual DC ratings stated. The 15 and 20 amp ones are quite inexpensive.
The 30 and 50 amp ones are a bit pricey. Have a look.
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/620/1021.pdf
I ordered a S-1F a while back just to check it out and it seems like a well
built switch. I think I'm going to use these. The only problem I can see
is the nut that holds them in the panel is not a hex nut. It's a round
knurled nut and I haven't found a tool to tighten it yet.
Joel
Message 25
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| Subject: | Open letter to the list |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard Talbot" <rwtalbot@purephotos.com.au>
Frankly, I am one of the silent 1300 who is totally sick of this thread. I
am currently working on designing the electrical for a RV7A. I have Bob's
book and find a lot of the material in it very helpful.
I do however think that some of the proposed solutions are expensive for the
value that I perceive they provide. There does not seem to be a cost
benefit analysis in the book, neither does there appear to be a lot of
emphasis on matching the electrical system to your mission profile. Both of
these issues are important for a builder on a budget.
For example, Why should I buy a $600 alternator + $250 regulator when Van's
sells the whole kit for $160? ... surely if an external regulator is
important one can at least modify the $160 one and someone here has posted
an article with pictures?
Why would I want a dual alternator configuration even on an all electric
single engine, plane? One of each is already a redundant system. One would
think dual batteries and one alternator would suffice? If I wanted to do a
six hour flight over water I could see the point.
Why would I really want complicated cross-feed switches in the aircraft,
even while under IFR? I do have one fan and one crankshaft after all.
As you can probably see, more than one of the potential topics Paul proposed
interested me. In the last two weeks I have been subscribed many of you
have successfully filled my inbox with utter crap. I am quickly becoming a
very silent member of the list.
Regards
Richard
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Fiveonepw@aol.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Open letter to the list
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 1/31/05 4:21:46 AM Central Standard Time,
gyoung@cs-sol.com writes:
> I was offering my opinion/hypothesis on why so few post.
>>>>
Here's another: Perhaps the majority of the "silent 1300" draw sufficient
knowledge & information from the matierial provided to make their OBAM
aircraft
function just fine and don't need to post? I'd assume if they are reading
this
that they know how to "send mail" or reply and hit "send"...
Mark Phillips - do not archive
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | DC rated switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/CCP <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
Channel Locks? :)
Neal
RV-7 N8ZG
Fuselage ordered
>
The only problem I can see is the nut that holds them in the panel is not a
hex nut. It's a round knurled nut and I haven't found a tool to tighten it
yet.
Joel
<
Message 27
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| Subject: | Toggle switches with lock |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Hello, all
A little while ago someone was looking for a switch with some sort of protection
(like the Saturn
rocket "ignition" switch).
I just saw a switch that might be of interest to some of you - model "H" in this
page:
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/620/1020.pdf
Cheers
Carlos
do not archive
Message 28
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| Subject: | Open letter to the list |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
Mr. Talbot, where did that come from? Are we talking about the same website.
I haven't heard (m)any proposing that a $600 alternator was a good idea, when
Van's and NDs can fulfill the mission for bucks-less. And dual batteries and
dual alternators--not. In fact, I think it's consistently been Bob's position
that dual batteries are mostly a matter of personal comfort, not a necessity
or even recommended for reliability and redundancy, given their high service reliability
(when treated well and changed regularly--even for cheap batteries).
And the single battery will get you home (or at least to a safe spot) even
if the single alternator goes in the crapper.
However, for those that want such redundancies, wiring schemes are offered. But
such offerings are not necessarily recommendations. Time and again, it seems
to me that this website has stood four-square against high dollar, complex solutions
to simple problems. Consistently parsimonious, I would say.
Yes, the site may go off on tangents occasionally, but the weight of the wheat
is still manifold compared to the chafe. So, don't be so silent for so long.
In the mean time, suffer with us pontificators with generous patience. We mean
well.
Chuck
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Richard Talbot
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Open letter to the list
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard Talbot" <rwtalbot@purephotos.com.au>
Frankly, I am one of the silent 1300 who is totally sick of this thread. I
am currently working on designing the electrical for a RV7A. I have Bob's
book and find a lot of the material in it very helpful.
I do however think that some of the proposed solutions are expensive for the
value that I perceive they provide. There does not seem to be a cost
benefit analysis in the book, neither does there appear to be a lot of
emphasis on matching the electrical system to your mission profile. Both of
these issues are important for a builder on a budget.
For example, Why should I buy a $600 alternator + $250 regulator when Van's
sells the whole kit for $160? ... surely if an external regulator is
important one can at least modify the $160 one and someone here has posted
an article with pictures?
Why would I want a dual alternator configuration even on an all electric
single engine, plane? One of each is already a redundant system. One would
think dual batteries and one alternator would suffice? If I wanted to do a
six hour flight over water I could see the point.
Why would I really want complicated cross-feed switches in the aircraft,
even while under IFR? I do have one fan and one crankshaft after all.
As you can probably see, more than one of the potential topics Paul proposed
interested me. In the last two weeks I have been subscribed many of you
have successfully filled my inbox with utter crap. I am quickly becoming a
very silent member of the list.
Regards
Richard
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Fiveonepw@aol.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Open letter to the list
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 1/31/05 4:21:46 AM Central Standard Time,
gyoung@cs-sol.com writes:
> I was offering my opinion/hypothesis on why so few post.
>>>>
Here's another: Perhaps the majority of the "silent 1300" draw sufficient
knowledge & information from the matierial provided to make their OBAM
aircraft
function just fine and don't need to post? I'd assume if they are reading
this
that they know how to "send mail" or reply and hit "send"...
Mark Phillips - do not archive
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: DC rated switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Joel Jacobs" <jj@sdf.lonestar.org>
Channel locks would mar them. I did find this wrench that looks like it
might work but hesitant to order one if I'm not sure. Actually I'm leaning
toward trying to make one. I was thinking lightly coat the nut with grease,
lay it on a flat surface, glob some JB weld around the nut and slip a piece
of 1/2" copper water pipe over that and let it set up a bit...
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Tools:_Toggle_switch_wrench
.html
Joel
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Neal E Capt AU/CCP" <Neal.George@maxwell.af.mil>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: DC rated switches
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/CCP
<Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
>
> Channel Locks? :)
>
> Neal
> RV-7 N8ZG
> Fuselage ordered
>
> >
> The only problem I can see is the nut that holds them in the panel is not
a
> hex nut. It's a round knurled nut and I haven't found a tool to tighten
it
> yet.
>
> Joel
> <
>
>
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Shrink tube expanding? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Live on Long Island NY. Did a repair on my cell phone charger over the summer where
the charge wire enters the banana pin, did a nice job and used silicone and some
shrink tube. Left in car when it got down to ~ 0F and the heat shrink expanded
a bit
where it slid down the cord. When it warmed up it stayed expanded. Heat did shrink
it
back down, but this would not be a nice thing for a aeroplane. It was some heat
shrink i had purchased from Active Electronics.
Is there a certain type of heat shrink tube should be using?? Or apply in a certain
manor to prevent this?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: DC rated switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
How much torque do you really have to put on one of these things?? I
thought the point of a knurled nut was to be able to hand tighten it.
Regards,
Matt-
VE N34RD, C150 N714BK
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Joel Jacobs"
> <jj@sdf.lonestar.org>
>
> Channel locks would mar them. I did find this wrench that looks like it
> might work but hesitant to order one if I'm not sure. Actually I'm
> leaning toward trying to make one. I was thinking lightly coat the nut
> with grease, lay it on a flat surface, glob some JB weld around the nut
> and slip a piece of 1/2" copper water pipe over that and let it set up a
> bit...
> http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Tools:_Toggle_switch_wrench
> .html
>
> Joel
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Neal E Capt AU/CCP" <Neal.George@maxwell.af.mil>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: DC rated switches
>
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/CCP
> <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
>>
>> Channel Locks? :)
>>
>> Neal
>> RV-7 N8ZG
>> Fuselage ordered
>>
>> >
>> The only problem I can see is the nut that holds them in the panel is
>> not
> a
>> hex nut. It's a round knurled nut and I haven't found a tool to
>> tighten
> it
>> yet.
>>
>> Joel
>> <
>>
>>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: DC rated switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
I always just held the round knurled nut stationary with my fingers while
using the switch body to tighten. Worked every time.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Jacobs" <jj@sdf.lonestar.org>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: DC rated switches
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Joel Jacobs"
<jj@sdf.lonestar.org>
>
> Channel locks would mar them. I did find this wrench that looks like it
> might work but hesitant to order one if I'm not sure. Actually I'm
leaning
> toward trying to make one. I was thinking lightly coat the nut with
grease,
> lay it on a flat surface, glob some JB weld around the nut and slip a
piece
> of 1/2" copper water pipe over that and let it set up a bit...
>
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Tools:_Toggle_switch_wrench
> .html
>
> Joel
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Neal E Capt AU/CCP" <Neal.George@maxwell.af.mil>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: DC rated switches
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/CCP
> <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
> >
> > Channel Locks? :)
> >
> > Neal
> > RV-7 N8ZG
> > Fuselage ordered
> >
> > >
> > The only problem I can see is the nut that holds them in the panel is
not
> a
> > hex nut. It's a round knurled nut and I haven't found a tool to tighten
> it
> > yet.
> >
> > Joel
> > <
> >
> >
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Toggle switches with lock |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
I found some cheaply on eBay- ya never know what'll be there on a given search...
-BB
do not archive
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: DC rated switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 1/31/2005 4:19:33 P.M. Central Standard Time,
923te@cox.net writes:
I always just held the round knurled nut stationary with my fingers while
using the switch body to tighten. Worked every time.
Good Evening 923te,
May we assume then that you do not use the fitted washer that will key the
switch to the panel?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Message 35
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| Subject: | Shrink tube expanding? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <robh@hyperion-ef.us>
Ron:
Was the silicone sealant fully cured before you applied the heat shrink? My
suspicion is that the acetic acid in the uncured sealant has migrated into
the heat shrink tube and caused it to swell.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ronald J.
Parigoris
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Shrink tube expanding?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris"
<rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Live on Long Island NY. Did a repair on my cell phone charger over the
summer where
the charge wire enters the banana pin, did a nice job and used silicone and
some
shrink tube. Left in car when it got down to ~ 0F and the heat shrink
expanded a bit
where it slid down the cord. When it warmed up it stayed expanded. Heat did
shrink it
back down, but this would not be a nice thing for a aeroplane. It was some
heat
shrink i had purchased from Active Electronics.
Is there a certain type of heat shrink tube should be using?? Or apply in a
certain
manor to prevent this?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: DC rated switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
A little Loctite 242 might help keep it together.
At 05:38 PM 1/31/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>
>In a message dated 1/31/2005 4:19:33 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>923te@cox.net writes:
>
>I always just held the round knurled nut stationary with my fingers while
>using the switch body to tighten. Worked every time.
>
>
>Good Evening 923te,
>
>May we assume then that you do not use the fitted washer that will key the
>switch to the panel?
>
>Happy Skies,
>
>Old Bob
>AKA
>Bob Siegfried
>Ancient Aviator
>Stearman N3977A
>Brookeridge Airpark LL22
>Downers Grove, IL 60516
>630 985-8502
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Shrink tube expanding? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hello Rob
> " My suspicion is that the acetic acid in the uncured sealant has migrated
> into
> the heat shrink tube and caused it to swell."
I put the silicone into the heat shrink tube after it was shrunk.
There was at least 1/2 inch of the tube that was on the wire with no sealant on
it, and that got to be a pretty poor fit. reheating it shrunk it right up again.
Ron Parigoris
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: DC rated switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
If memory serves right ... these thin hex nuts are sold at ACE in the small
parts dept, aviation aisle.
My 2worth ...
Jerry Grimmonpre
7A
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Re: Tools for knurled switch nuts |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:34 PM 1/31/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Joel Jacobs" <jj@sdf.lonestar.org>
>
>For those that may be interested, I've found some nice toggle switches with
>actual DC ratings stated. The 15 and 20 amp ones are quite inexpensive.
>The 30 and 50 amp ones are a bit pricey. Have a look.
>http://www.mouser.com/catalog/620/1021.pdf
>I ordered a S-1F a while back just to check it out and it seems like a well
>built switch. I think I'm going to use these. The only problem I can see
>is the nut that holds them in the panel is not a hex nut. It's a round
>knurled nut and I haven't found a tool to tighten it yet.
>
>Joel
There are tools for the knurled switch nuts. I used to have one
but haven't seen it in years. When switches come in with the
knurled nuts, I replace them with 15/32-32 hex nuts which
are MUCH easier to tighten with ordinary tools.
Bob . . .
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Shrink tube expanding? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Ron -
There are a zillion brands/kinds of heat shrink out there. We used a piece
from a relatively known source today and the heat gun melted it thru on
one end!! It was no big deal because the piece was to be a buffer under a
strain relief of an AMP CPC. After using this shrink wrap for many moons,
I don't think it was our technique with the gun.
We also used several pieces of mil spec stuff where it really counted and
it shrinks better, shrinks more, shrinks tighter and is impossible to melt
even when a solder gun hits it momentarily.
I'd use mil spec stuff or at least "heavy duty" stuff where it counts:
over bare connections.
Cheers,
John
> It was some heat shrink i had purchased from Active Electronics.
>
> Is there a certain type of heat shrink tube should be using?? Or apply
> in a certain manor to prevent this?
>
> Thx.
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
--
Message 41
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| Subject: | RE: Magician with a EE |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mike Nellis (mike@bmnellis.com)
> "How about NO fuses, practically no CB's NO relays, simple controls
> etc nearly all solid state with smarts built in...."
>leads me to believe he's probably a magician as well as an Electrical
Engineer. I'm sure we will one day see his own website, with his own
>manual and maybe his own self contained module that we'll have to pay for.
.
Paul Messinger ran out of room for circuit breakers in his airplane so he
replaced 20-30 of them with IR3310s which have trip characteristics that
surpass any CB or fuse AND can read out their current individually . That's
what he meant--all solid state--relays too. I advocate this direction for
those who like to color outside the lines.
>Certainly there appears to be another agenda than just the selfless one Bob
has offered all these years.
Paul may or may not actually sell any of this. But "Selfless Bob"? That may
be stretching it a bit. Under that sack-cloth and sandals.....I'll bet he's
one of them capitalists.
Regards,
Selfless Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
" I would have made a good Pope."
-- Richard M. Nixon (1913-1994)
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Tools for knurled switch nuts |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
>
> There are tools for the knurled switch nuts. I used to have one
> but haven't seen it in years. When switches come in with the
> knurled nuts, I replace them with 15/32-32 hex nuts which
> are MUCH easier to tighten with ordinary tools.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob -
Where can you get these nuts, and also some plain, thin washers to go with
them?
I can also use some 3/8" D and 1/4" D nuts and thin washers.
Thanks,
John
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: DC rated switches |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on juliet.albedo.net
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Hi Joel
To my surprise after finger tightening the knurled nuts on the Carling
switches, I was able to tighten the knurled nuts with the end of a pair
of pliers withough damaging the paint. I used the end not the sides of
the jaws. In some cases you can also slip a wrench behind the panel and
tighten the hex nut if you use a hex nut behind the panel to adjust the
depth of the switch in the panel.
Ken
Joel Jacobs wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Joel Jacobs" <jj@sdf.lonestar.org>
>
>For those that may be interested, I've found some nice toggle switches with
>actual DC ratings stated. The 15 and 20 amp ones are quite inexpensive.
>The 30 and 50 amp ones are a bit pricey. Have a look.
>http://www.mouser.com/catalog/620/1021.pdf
>I ordered a S-1F a while back just to check it out and it seems like a well
>built switch. I think I'm going to use these. The only problem I can see
>is the nut that holds them in the panel is not a hex nut. It's a round
>knurled nut and I haven't found a tool to tighten it yet.
>
>Joel
>
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
Richard Dudley wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Dudley <rhdudley@att.net>
>
> Bob,
> I found a local company in Orlando who sells both EL tape and the
> inverters to power the tape. It looked attractive. I purchased a length
Hi Richard,
Which company?
Thanks,
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu
"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Tools for knurled switch nuts |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
I have a thin wrench that I made that I use to tighten the nut on the back
side of the panel. It looks best when you put on the knurled nut to leave
just a few threads showing on the front of the switch then tighten the hex
nut on the other side of the panel. It also keeps you from slipping and
scratching the panel. Someimes you have to be creative in the order you
install things so you can get to the back of all of the switches.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Tools for knurled switch nuts
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:34 PM 1/31/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Joel Jacobs"
<jj@sdf.lonestar.org>
>
>For those that may be interested, I've found some nice toggle switches with
>actual DC ratings stated. The 15 and 20 amp ones are quite inexpensive.
>The 30 and 50 amp ones are a bit pricey. Have a look.
>http://www.mouser.com/catalog/620/1021.pdf
>I ordered a S-1F a while back just to check it out and it seems like a well
>built switch. I think I'm going to use these. The only problem I can see
>is the nut that holds them in the panel is not a hex nut. It's a round
>knurled nut and I haven't found a tool to tighten it yet.
>
>Joel
There are tools for the knurled switch nuts. I used to have one
but haven't seen it in years. When switches come in with the
knurled nuts, I replace them with 15/32-32 hex nuts which
are MUCH easier to tighten with ordinary tools.
Bob . . .
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Slippery Stuff |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <kcorr@charter.net>
Just a quick note to you. I work for a electrical supply house. The wire lube
we sell is water based and made by Ideal which is one of several manufacturers.
This dries and leaves film on everyting it comes in contact with. I don't
think it will attach the plastic tubing you are using as it is commonly used
in PVC conduit, but you will want to investigate further if you go this route.
Good Luck
Kent Orr
>
> From: Steve Thomas <lists@stevet.net>
> Date: 2005/01/29 Sat PM 06:52:57 GMT
> To: "Eric M. Jones" <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Slippery Stuff
>
>
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Dudley <rhdudley@att.net>
Dj,
The company is Luxury Lighting; www.LuxuryLighting.net and 866-681-0072 .
RHDudley
Dj Merrill wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
>
>Richard Dudley wrote:
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Dudley <rhdudley@att.net>
>>
>>Bob,
>>I found a local company in Orlando who sells both EL tape and the
>>inverters to power the tape. It looked attractive. I purchased a length
>>
>>
>
>Hi Richard,
> Which company?
>
>Thanks,
>
>-Dj
>
>
>
Message 48
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| Subject: | Open letter to the list |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gregory Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
> Greg, I complained about as much as anyone about Van's
> conscious decision
> not to document builder complaints and suggestions (up until
> a year or two
> ago when they got their a**s up out of the reach of the
> alligators and could
> start doing it. There were problems that I was having that
> untold others
> had also suffered and that should have been fixed, not let
> continue. I
> finally got wiser and shut up complaining and just focused on
> non-complaining submissions of revised drawings, areas to fix, etc.
Sure, we all bitched about Van. I always mused that Van left those hurdles
in as a rite of passage. Most backed off when they realized it was an
integral part of the value we found in the RVs. An unexpected side effect
was the growth of a huge support network with a family atmosphere. And not
just on the the list but in builder groups, EAA chapters, fly-ins and
virtually anywhere 2 RVers met. I've yett to meet an RV builder who wouldn't
help another. This list environment is different. Not wrong, but certainly
different. Maybe it's because we don't wear Aero-Electric stickers at
fly-ins.
>
> You are complaining, in like vein, about lack of availability
> of concise
> info on electrical system design and installation.
>
Not a complaint, just a wish that someone would fill the void. I guess it's
going to take a profit motive for it to happen. But then you get that whole
"open source vs greedy capitalist" thing going. Oh well!
> It's not a perfect world, is it? It only gets better when
> people contribute
> something to make it better. Thank God for these lists and
> the great people
> who help us in our awesome task of building some great flying
> machines.
>
> David Carter
> RV-6
> Nederland, Texas
Well put. If you get over to Hooks be sure to stop by and chat. There aren't
many of us slow-build -6's left
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY - project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
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