Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:26 AM - Toggle Switches (Dick Fisher)
2. 05:50 AM - Re: Toggle Switches (Rico Voss)
3. 06:07 AM - Re: Toggle Switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 08:00 AM - Re: Dual Electronic Starting Issues (James E. Clark)
5. 02:40 PM - Re: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting (Bryan Hooks)
6. 04:54 PM - Re: solid state relays (D Fritz)
7. 05:20 PM - Re: Open letter to the list (923te)
8. 10:29 PM - Wig Wag (DEAN PSIROPOULOS)
9. 10:44 PM - Re: COM static on 123.05 (xl)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dick Fisher" <sonex76@velocity.net>
I am in the process of trying to wire a Jabiru 3300 with 20 amp alternator
and external regulator.
After having read all of the Aeroelectric Connection info and other
articles I could find on toggle switches, I wanted to
be certain I understand the following.
That with the exception of lights and pitot heat switches, I can use either
the B&C 7 amp switches or a similar rated product for my master switch
and alternator switches, etc as long as the switches I use have a good
snap action and
not be concerned with the need for a high (30) amperage switch for these
functions, as I would be hard pressed to obtain 10,000 or more cycles on
these switches.
Do I understand the switch thing correctly??
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Thank you,
Dick Fisher
sonex76@velocity.net
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rico Voss <vozzen@yahoo.com>
--- Dick Fisher <sonex76@velocity.net> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dick
> Fisher" <sonex76@velocity.net>
>
I can use either
> the B&C 7 amp switches or a similar rated product
> for my master switch
> and alternator switches,
Yes. If you're using one of the Z-drawing plans , the
switch that turns on the master contactor(relay) only
carries about 1 amp. Likewise (few amps) for the
alternator switch.
If you have an E-bus alternate feed switch, it should
be able to carry the total max load of everything on
that bus.
--Rico, XL/3300
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
__________________________________
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:22 AM 2/2/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dick Fisher" <sonex76@velocity.net>
>
>I am in the process of trying to wire a Jabiru 3300 with 20 amp alternator
> and external regulator.
>
> After having read all of the Aeroelectric Connection info and other
> articles I could find on toggle switches, I wanted to
> be certain I understand the following.
>
> That with the exception of lights and pitot heat switches, I can use either
> the B&C 7 amp switches or a similar rated product for my master switch
> and alternator switches, etc as long as the switches I use have a good
>snap action and
> not be concerned with the need for a high (30) amperage switch for these
> functions, as I would be hard pressed to obtain 10,000 or more cycles on
>these switches.
>
> Do I understand the switch thing correctly??
You betcha. Combine this think also with the notion that no
matter what class or quality of switch you select, the goal
is to design a system that does not cause to you break a sweat
if any one thing breaks.
It's much easier and a lot less expensive to design for
failure tolerance than to strive for failure proof. Both
concepts go to risk mitigation. The first acknowledges the
fact that you're very unlikely to have TWO failures on
any one tank of fuel while the later mode hopes that you
can drive system reliability to the point where you'll expect
1 failure of anything in a thousand, ten thousand, or perhaps
even a million flight hours. It's easy to see how much
pie-in-the-sky data massaging it take to craft a comfortable
position in the later camp.
I'm working a program now on an important and complicated
system that has an EXTREMELY poor performance in the field.
I've propose rewriting the specification for the system and
shopping for a new supplier. There's a cadre of folks at
the meetings who continually wring their hands over "certification
issues" not the least of which are reliability studies.
I have to remind them that the system we have pushed off
onto hundreds of customers at great expense to us and
them passed all the reliability studies with flying
colors . . . so much for the validity of reliability
studies.
I'll suggest that life is much more comfortable at the
other end of the spectrum where we EXPECT that some
things will crap while airborne and we're going to
condition both the architecture and operation such
that it doesn't matter.
In a nutshell, buy decent switches with a critical
eye toward mechanical robustness and esthetics
of your panel and don't loose a lot of sleep worrying
about the life cycle ratings.
Bob . . .
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> Thank you,
>
> Dick Fisher
> sonex76@velocity.net
>
>
>--
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>
>
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Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Dual Electronic Starting Issues |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
Have you considered Z-14?
I am using it and it **appears** to me to offer more with less complexity
than what you propose.
James
| -----Original Message-----
| From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-
| aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Teijgeler
| Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 11:31 AM
| To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
| Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dual Electronic Starting Issues
|
| --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hans Teijgeler"
| <hans@jodel.com>
|
| Hi list,
|
| I guess I am one of the 1300 silent ones on this list. Joined fairly
| recently and trying to catch up as much as I can.
|
| Quick introduction: I am working on a Subaru powered Jodel DR1050. It has
| flown last summer, before I decided to redo the engine and fit an NSI
| rather
| than my own contraption. The first iteration was single strand everything
| (battery, alternator, computer, ignition), the NSI has a lot of
| redundancy
| built in.
|
| Sanity check please guys?
|
| I've been going over the NSI wiring diagrams and came away impressed by
| the
| complexity of it all. Switches, keyed switches, backup switches that
| overrule other switches. All very neat and dandy, and each of the systems
| can take over other parts without the systems "downstream" noticing
| anything.
|
| But oh boy, what a lot of complexity. A dozen relays, two dozen diodes,
| switches all over the place, and a dizzified pilot scratching his head on
| his way down to terra firma with a frozen prop.
|
| Personally, I was thinking more along the following lines:
|
| (Keep it simple)
|
| Battery A feeds engine bus A and EFI pump A
| Battery B feeds engine bus B and EFI pump B
|
| The engine bus will run the computer, ignition, injectors, the lot. All
| except the fuel pumps.
|
| So four switches: EFI/IGN A and B and pump A and B.
|
| NO crossovers between the systems.
|
| This means that in case of a double-failure (and one occuring in each
| system) I am screwed, where the original NSI will likely purr on. I can
| live
| with that.
|
|
| What remains then:
| * The main electrical bus
| * The alternator
| * The starter
|
| The main bus I want to connect to either battery A or B via a toggle
| switch
| (with relay to prevent the switch from going ballistic)
|
| The alternator I wanted to connect to both batteries via a pair of 60 amp
| diodes and a pair of disconnect-relays (and yes, if I completely isolate
| battery A from the alternator circuit, I will use battery B to power that
| relay and vice versa)
|
| The starter would get its main power supply via either one of two
| external
| starter solenoids. The external solenoids and the internal one are to be
| fed
| by a push (starter) button and a toggle switch to select battery A or B.
|
| And, coming back to the original subject: I guess it makes sense to start
| the engine with the computer on one battery and selecting the other
| battery
| for the starter.
|
| Any comments are welcome!
|
| Thanks,
|
| Hans Teijgeler
| www.jodel.com
| PH-MGA, Jodel DR1050, Subaru engine
|
|
| > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
| > Van: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-
| > aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Duane Zavadil
| > Verzonden: maandag 31 januari 2005 6:02
| > Aan: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
| > Onderwerp: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual Electronic Starting Issues
| >
| > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Duane Zavadil"
| > <dzavadil@hometownaccess.net>
| >
| > That is interesting - maybe with diodes to prevent backfeeding.
| Probably
| > just one more part to break though. When diodes go bad, they go open!
| >
| > I like Frank's idea of a switchable voltmeter to check the backup
| battery
| > and Georges point about nothing between the battterys and the unit
| other
| > than a switch. I think that is the way it is now. I'll take a look at
| > the schematics that George forwarded. Thanks for all the help!
| > ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
| > From: TimRhod@aol.com
| > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 17:30:15 EST
| >
| > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com
| > >
| > >Does it make any sense in a duel battery duel electronic ignition
| setup
| > to
| > >run two wires from each battery to each electronic ignition.?
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
| > Sent via the WebMail system at hometownaccess.net
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
|
|
|
|
|
Message 5
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| Subject: | Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bryan Hooks" <bryanhooks@comcast.net>
Take this for what it's worth because I'm certainly no lighting expert,
but I ordered a few items from this company to test in my truck (before
ordering for the plane). I was not pleased with the quality of what
they sent. Some items didn't work, an inverter required re-wiring, and
some items were broken. They were happy to replace the broken item -
and I just got tired of dealing with it before I tried to get them to
replace the inverter or the items that didn't work. Just chalked it up
to a lesson learned. Cheap is sometimes just cheap.
Hopefully, mine is not the normal case and your results will vary.
-bryan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
bakerocb@cox.net
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cold Cathode and Electroluminescent Lighting
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
1/30/2005
Hello Fellow Builders, I provide the below URL for your inspection and
comment.
http://www.elwirecheap.com/glowingstuff/index.html
I am not affiliated with this company in any way.
OC
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: solid state relays |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: D Fritz <dfritzj@yahoo.com>
"There are others more qualified to comment than I am, but I'm curious
why you need 7 amps. That seems like a lot for most trim motors.
Have you considered an H-bridge IC like the the LMD 18200? see:"
The pitch trim on the Velocity draws up to 2.8 Amps and the speed brake actuator
a whopping 5.5 Amps. I plan to build a trim relay deck to handle pitch, roll
trim as well as speed brake. So I figured go to 7 Amps and have some margin.
I'll look at the H-bridge, thanks.
Dan
---------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Open letter to the list |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
If it weren't for these guys and this list I would still be in the dark ages
I suppose.
My last brush with electronics was just the other day when I could often be
found riding my bicycle with a paper sack full of those Television tubes to
the grocery store around the block. They had a tube tester. I was always
fixing the family TV set in those days. Too bad the grocery store doesn't
still have electronics test facilities....:)
I really appreciate everyone's contribution to this list and hope no one
leaves including Paul Messinger.
Your Fellow Aviation Enthusiast,
Ned
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
Len/listers:
I have a schematic for this type of flasher, it basically does the same thing as
the wig wag but without all the frills(turn it on and it alternately flashes
your two landing lights, that's all). The design is very simple and uses basically
4 solid state components that I purchased through Digi Key for less than
10 dollars! I didn't design the circuit but the designer is a Lancair builder
who published it in one of the electronic trade magazines. He was more than
happy to answer my question about using 100 watt aviation lights with it instead
of his 50 watt car halogens (it's plenty robust to operate at the higher
currents needed for the aviation lights). Since the schematic is public knowledge
I'm happy to share it with anyone who is interested in rolling their own
wig wag. Just contact me off list and I'll email you a scanned version of the
schematic and the basic circuit description.
Note: you need to have some basic knowledge of reading electronic schematics to
be able to do this, but this is a simple circuit that could even be built on
a radio schack perfboard if you really wanted to save money. Not for HID lights
(thier ballasts don't like being switched on and off that fast and... if you
have these really bright lights chances are you'll be seen, even in the daytime,
if you have them on)!
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Light at the end of the tunnel getting briter.
-----------------------------------------------Original message-------------------------------------
>Lenleg@aol.com wrote:
>RV-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com
>Anybody give me the contact info for Bob Haan ... producer of the Wig Wag????
>Thanks !!
>Len Leggette, RV-8A
>Greensboro, NC N910LL
>315 hrs
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: COM static on 123.05 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
No COM noise until about 125 hours.
Then it was very annoying at certain frequencies.
I inspected all of the connections shields and grounds.
I tried filters on some power leads - no help with radiated noise.
I noticed that there was some play in the distributor caps.
I shimmed the clamps - and the noise went away.
Problem solved.
Joe E
N633Z @ BFI
160 hours, Jabiru 3300
http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/
Joe E wrote:- 05 Jan 05
> I've been scratching my head and searching the archives about this
> problem. No static on 120.6 or 118.3. Static on 123.05 and 122.7.
> My COM worked fine for > 125 hours and now this. . . . . . .
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