Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:08 AM - Re: Large Flag ring terminals was Fuseable (Charlie Kuss)
2. 07:24 AM - Re: 2-10 switched fuel pump (John Schroeder)
3. 07:41 AM - Re: Large Flag ring terminals was Fuseable Link question (John Schroeder)
4. 08:59 AM - Re: 2-10 switched fuel pump (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 09:17 AM - Re: 2-10 switched fuel pump (John Schroeder)
6. 09:17 AM - Re: 2-10 switched fuel pump (John Schroeder)
7. 09:31 AM - Aural warnings (Fergus Kyle)
8. 10:10 AM - Voice annunciation (Glen Matejcek)
9. 10:56 AM - Re: System analysis (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 11:02 AM - Re: Large Flag ring terminals was Fuseable (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 12:39 PM - Solid state relay recommendation (Paul McAllister)
12. 03:21 PM - Re: Ammeter/voltmeter Gauge (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 03:26 PM - Re: Starter motor voltage (Jan de Jong)
14. 03:30 PM - Re: Voice annunciation (rv-9a-online)
15. 03:38 PM - Powerdiode failure mode (Jan de Jong)
16. 04:44 PM - Re: Audio isolation amp board (Dee L. Conger)
17. 05:39 PM - Antenna / aerial questions (Kingsley Hurst)
18. 05:48 PM - Re: Powerdiode failure mode (Richard E. Tasker)
19. 06:07 PM - Garmin 330 High vs. Low? (Roger Evenson)
20. 06:46 PM - Re: Antenna / aerial questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 06:49 PM - 115 vac 3 phase inverter (Dee L. Conger)
22. 08:02 PM - Re: Antenna / aerial questions (Kingsley Hurst)
23. 08:16 PM - Warning systems (Fergus Kyle)
24. 08:21 PM - Which? (Fergus Kyle)
25. 09:11 PM - Re: Antenna / aerial questions (Eric Ruttan)
26. 09:42 PM - Re: 115 vac 3 phase inverter (Jerzy Krasinski)
27. 10:25 PM - Re: Antenna / aerial questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
28. 10:29 PM - Re: Garmin 330 High vs. Low? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
29. 10:51 PM - Re: Garmin 330 High vs. Low? (Frank & Dorothy)
30. 10:56 PM - Ex Pilot Question (DEAN PSIROPOULOS)
31. 11:35 PM - Re: 115 vac 3 phase inverter (Gerry Holland)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Large Flag ring terminals was Fuseable |
Link question
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net> Link
question
At 07:44 PM 2/19/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>At 08:20 PM 2/18/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss
> <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
> >
> >Bob & Listers,
> > If I understand Bob's book correctly, Bob feels that any bus supply wire
> >which is 6" long or less, does not need circuit protection. I can not get
> >my main bus power supply wire that short (minimum bend radius and
> >obstruction considerations).
>
> First, know that the "6-inch rule" is a hand-me-down from
> the darkest ages of electrical systems installations in airplanes.
> I recall statements at Cessna in 1964 that short wires tied to
> the bus behind the breaker panel did not need to be protected
> because they were less than 6" in length.
>
> Now, where did that number come from? The folks who thought it
> up are probably dead. Was there some careful consideration of
> the amount of smoke one could expect from then popular nylon
> over PVC wire? Hmmm . . . if tefzel smoke is more/less, unpleasant/
> hazardous then perhaps the rule of thumb should be 4 inches/10 inches.
> I'll bet we could get them to debate this for at least a couple of
> years before generating a new rule.
>
> > My main power supply circuit will go through a LittelFuse, 60 amp maxi
> >fuse and holder. However, I must run a 6AWG wire about 9" to reach this
> >fuse holder. Should I make a 10AWG fuseable link? This wire will be in free
> >air. It will be the supply line to both my main bus power and to the
> >alternator B lead. Or should I simply run 6 AWG wire to the fuse holder
> >without concern for a possible short in this 9" supply wire? If I use a 10
> >AWG wire (fuseable link), I can reduce this distance from 9" to 7". Since
> >this is the supply wire for my main bus, I'm concerned about voltage drop
> >here. Am I making mountains out of mole hills? How much of a
> >voltage/efficiency loss would be taken by installing the fuseible link?
>
>
> Run a solid piece of wire for whatever length it takes to do the
> job neatly and with good craftsmanship.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob,
Thank you for your advice. Are "flag" style ring terminals available for
6AWG? I can reduce the length of this wire and reduce it's "vulnerability"
by using such a terminal. Where might I find them?
Charlie Kuss
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 2-10 switched fuel pump |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Tim -
We wired the power from the input terminal (2) thru terminal 1 back to
terminal 5. When you go to the mid position of the 2-10 switch, power is
fed from 2 to 1 to 5 to terminal 6 to the low wire (white) of the pump.
When you go from the mid to the up-position of the switch lever, power
goes from 2 to 1 to 5 to 4 to the high wire of the pump (black). In the up
position of the lever, power is thus removed from 6 (low). We tapped the
low caution light power off pin 6 and the high caution off of pin 4.
This was with the keyway up.
We tested the basic circuitry on the installed pump and it worked. We did
not check the lights, however.We could always use a sanity check on this,
so if you bench test the switching, we'd appreciate feedback.
As Bob mentioned some time ago, the lights, when wired this way do not
tell you if the pump is working and the pressurized fuel is making it to
the engine. Originally, we wanted a light to remind us that the pump is on
in the high mode or on in the low mode.
Cheers,
John
On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 01:20:35 EST, <TimRhod@aol.com> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 2/19/2005 11:05:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> b.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/2-10_Hi-Lo_Boost.pdf
>
>
> Bob I think that drawing may be incorrect Should not #5 be jumped to #1
> instead of #3.
> While I have you how would you wire a pump on light to show pump on in
> both
> high and low configurations. One Light on with either high or low?
> Thanks
> Tim
>
>
--
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Large Flag ring terminals was Fuseable Link question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Charlie -
If I understand what you mean by "flag" style terminals, they are bent at
45 degrees or 90. Thomas & Betts makes then for # 6 welding cable. They
are the color code blue to match their crimper. Their catalog number for
1/4" stud hole and 90 degrees is: 54105UB. The 5/16" stud is 54135UB.
Website: www.tnb.com
The problem with these is that very few businesses carry them. They will
special order them and you'll pay for a minimum order of like 25. Welding
supply shops in the Charlotte, NC area do not carry them.They are a great
help with orienting that heavy cabling and for aligning the cable in a way
to keep pressure off of the battery terminals. Steinair, B&C, Terminal
Town are you reading this? Perhaps someone on this list would know a
source for buying small quantities of them for #6 , #4 (brown) and #2
(green) welding cable.
Cheers,
John
> Bob,
> Thank you for your advice. Are "flag" style ring terminals available
> for
> 6AWG? I can reduce the length of this wire and reduce it's
> "vulnerability"
> by using such a terminal. Where might I find them?
> Charlie Kuss
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 2-10 switched fuel pump |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:20 AM 2/20/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com
>
>
>In a message dated 2/19/2005 11:05:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>b.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/2-10_Hi-Lo_Boost.pdf
>
>
>Bob I think that drawing may be incorrect Should not #5 be jumped to #1
>instead of #3.
>While I have you how would you wire a pump on light to show pump on in both
>high and low configurations. One Light on with either high
>or low? Thanks
> Tim
You're exactly right sir. Good call and thank you!
The drawing has been revised.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 2-10 switched fuel pump |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Tim -
On Bob's revised diagram, couldn't you tap one wire off of the number 1 or
number 5 terminal for a one lamp annunciator? Either is hot in low and
high because they are the feed path for both positions. They are both off
when the switch is in the off position.
John
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 2-10 switched fuel pump |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Tim -
On Bob's revised diagram, couldn't you tap one wire off of the number 1 or
number 5 terminal for a one lamp annunciator? Either is hot in low and
high because they are the feed path for both positions. They are both off
when the switch is in the off position.
John
> While I have you how would you wire a pump on light to show pump on in
> both high and low configurations. One Light on with either high or
> low? Thanks
> Tim
Message 7
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Time: 08:38:34 AM PST US
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Voice annunciation.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
The ACS2002 and AF-2500 have a female voice for aural warnings.
http://www.advanced-control-systems.com
It definitely gets your attention! This thing kicks butt.
For many years, the lady has been referred to as Moaning Millie, Bitching
Betty or Nagging Nellie. and my son tells me she's a life-saver.......F-18s.
Ferg
Message 8
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| Subject: | Voice annunciation |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Hi All-
Two companies ago I flew a plane with 13 different voice annunciations in
addition to the GPWS. The voice was a husky feminine one that we referred
to as 'Natashia'. It was pretty cool... for about 2 weeks. After that it
got pretty annoying.
The planes I've flown since all had voice annunciations, but only for the
GPWS. That makes them (and your imminent demise) really stand out. I
really prefer this arrangement, for what it's worth.
The simplest / most effective convention I've been exposed to includes a
red light and three audio chirps for a condition that may kill you if you
don't address it pretty quick, and a single chirp with an amber light for a
condition that will cause further equipment damage or perhaps kill you
somewhere down the road if you don't deal with it at some point in time.
What I'd like for my plane is a dimmable annunciator light system atop the
glare shield that illuminates whenever a monitored system goes out of
parameters. Whenever a light first illuminates, there would be a single
chirp in the audio system.
The big point here is that no one failure ever killed a pilot. However,
several small and seemingly unrelated things can sometimes synergise in a
most unpleasant way. Having the audio chirp wouldn't so much alert you
that there is something bad happening, but rather that ANOTHER something
bad is happening once you already have a light(s) illuminated.
The downside for me is that this represents a technology that I'm not
really motivated to master, at least not at this point.
FWIW, YMMV...
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: System analysis |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:37 PM 2/17/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Swartout"
><jgswartout@earthlink.net>
>
>Bob and list:
>
>
>I am planning my electrical system and have just re-read AEC chapter 17
>Electrical System Reliability, and STILL am having trouble deciding the
>ignition/aux battery/aux alternator mix. I think I need an algorithm
>for analyzing redundancy and/or a hierarchy of the most failure-prone
>primary electrical components.
>
>
>First, here's the application: O-360 powered day/night VFR bush plane
>with gravity-fed fuel (boost pump for TO & Ldg.) dual electronic
>ignitions, either EMAG/PMAG or two PMAGS but leaning towards one of
>each. All-electric panel, consisting of Dynon D1o-A EFIS with analog
>airspeed and altimeter backup, a skid/slip ball, magnetic and electronic
>compasses, and a GPS with moving map PDA ; and a Grand Rapids EIS.
>
>
>How many simultaneous electrical/electronic failures is it reasonable to
>guard against?
None. Assuming you took reasonable care probability
of multiple failures of truly critical appliances in
a single tank of fuel is very remote. The only cases
where I've learned of really catastrophic failures was
in amateur built or very poorly maintained spam-cans.
Every scenario likely to cause you to break a sweat
takes a STRING of conditions to trigger the event.
The worst cases almost always include elements of
poor craftsmanship and/or ignorance of history. Poor
choice of architecture and absolute quality of parts
are very low probability for root cause of an accident.
>Could an alternator or regulator failure smoke an electronic
>ignition--or both of them--thus taking down everything?
Why not run p-mags and ELIMINATE them from consideration?
>If the one PMAG self-destructs, the engine becomes electrically
>dependent, but my single RG battery should keep the EMAG operating.
Accurate observation. Now, what is the probability of
self-destruction? What are the highly stressed parts
in a p-mag? Unless the manufacturer says "accomplish
refurbishment/overhaul ever x-hours" one might conclude
that there are no highly stressed, mechanical or electrical
wearing parts within . . . unlike our venerable magnetos.
>If an alternator/regulator failure can't possibly damage the electronic
>ignitions, then the engine is not technically dependent on the aircraft
>electrical system and the engine can take care of itself temporarily.
>Per AEC, I shouldn't need two batteries if I use one good RG and take
>care of it and replace it annually. Bob says the failure of a fresh RG
>battery is about as likely as losing a prop bolt.
There you go. I'm working a project on an RV-7 that
promises to be the designers dream. Budget is no restraint.
So, what would I recommend for an airplane that's carrying
dual EFIS, dual GPS aided autopilots, and dual electronic ignition?
First, we're going with dual p-mags. We'll start out with
Figure Z-13 but with a look-ahead to later upgrade to
either Z-13/20 or Z-14. The goal is to make it all play
with attractive failure mode effects analysis with stock
Z-13 . . . for a potential weight savings of 12# over
a minimized Z-14.
>That leaves the alternator/regulator. I gather that this is the most
>vulnerable link in the chain. The AEC list archives is awash with stuff
>on what to do about alternators that wig out. Granted that a B&C
>alternator would reduce the likelihood of an alternator failure, but
>"Nuckolls' first law of airplane systems design sez: Things break." So
>I consider backing up the alternator with an SD8 and overvoltage kit,
>for $500. That's on top of the $638 for the main alternator, an L40 and
>LR3 regulator, which might be very good but will someday croak. Heck, a
>V-belt could break-not the alternator's fault.
Okay, ASSUME the alternator is going to quit. Are you willing
to craft an e-bus load and an operating/maintenance philosophy
that makes this a no-sweat scenario? Review the dark-n-stormy
night story in Chapter 17. Any ONE of several actions on the
part of the aircraft owner would have certainly mitigated if
not eliminated the set-up that put our hero into that situation.
(1) make sure ov system WORKS. (2) keep battery fresh enough to
carry ENDURANCE LOADS for a KNOWN number of minutes after (3)
active notification of low voltage comes on.
>So if I have a very reliable back-up alternator, why not realize some
>savings and install as the main alternator a $110 automotive 55-amp
>internally-regulated unit, with a crowbar circuit and maybe one of those
>Whack Jack things? I mean, some of us homebuilders are doing it to
>build a better mousetrap AND save money.
Most assuredly. It's true that one can pile lots of back-ups-to-
backups in the system but the risks are (1) operational complexity
that trips up a stressed out pilot trying to deal with the
less than ideal situation, (2) weight, (3) $time$ purchase, install
and maintain. Until the p-mags came along, our deliberations
suggested a second battery for dual ignition airplanes. Now,
(at least for traditional aircraft engines) we can concentrate
exclusively on systems issues other than power plant which
drives system weights and costs down yet one more little step.
>One more thing. I estimate peak electrical load at about 19 amps (night
>landing with everything on). Rock bottom E-bus load about 5 amps.
>Maximum fuel endurance about 6 hours. Should I think about anything
>less than a 34 amp hour battery?
You betcha. This a shoo-in for Z-13/8 which gives you 8 amps
e-bus support IRRESPECTIVE of battery size. Trade lots of pounds
in plastic and lead for a 4# alternator installation seems like
an easy choice to me. If push comes to shove, you can do Z-13
on steroids with Z-13/20. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Architecture
But the last thing you want to do is add lead to the airplane.
Energy available in a battery is no match for energy available
from an engine driven power source for weight, endurance, and
lowest cost of ownership.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Large Flag ring terminals was Fuseable |
Link question
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
Link question
>
>Bob,
> Thank you for your advice. Are "flag" style ring terminals available for
>6AWG? I can reduce the length of this wire and reduce it's "vulnerability"
>by using such a terminal. Where might I find them?
>Charlie Kuss
You'll spend more time looking for one than it takes to make one.
Pick a twist drill diameter that's a slip fit over the exposed
strands of 6AWG. Take a 5/8 or 3/4" piece of soft copper tubing
and mash it in stages in a vise with the last few squishing operations
forming the tubing down over the shank of your twist drill. See
Figure 9-5 in the 'Connection.
Use a unibit to drill a stud clearance hole in the terminal's
flag and then solder the terminal to your wire as described in
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
These terminals are available commercially but you only need
a couple . . . you can have them fabricated and installed in
less time that it will take you to find and order them.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Solid state relay recommendation |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi all,
I need a pair of solid state relays for my altitude hold project. The load is
quite small and non inductive and the drive signal will be from PIC microprocessor
running on 5 volts. Could someone make a recommendation, preferably something
available at Mouser or Digikey
Thanks, Paul
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Ammeter/voltmeter Gauge |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:18 AM 2/17/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dick Fisher" <sonex76@velocity.net>
>
>Looking for a source for a reliable but inexpensive (if Possible)
>ammeter/voltmeter panel mount gauge for my Jabiru 3300 engine
>with a 20 amp single phase permanent magnet alternator.
>I'm using a Stratomaster Ultra X that has a voltmeter indicator,
>so maybe just an ammeter would be needed??
Voltmeters and ammeters are diagnostic tools, not flight
operations tools. I'd be perfectly comfortable flying
in airplanes with active notification of low voltage and
well maintained ov protection systems. If you'd
like a small ammeter, I can fix you up with a miniature
loadmeter. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Loadmeter_2.jpg
This 1.5" square instrument will be added to our website
later this year but I could get a pre-production item
out for you. We're considering an expanded scale voltmeter
in the same package. We were forced into this new product
when Westach was unable to provide me with an instrument
of sufficient quality. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/loadvolt.jpg
This loadmeter features a movement by Tripplet and
has a zero-adjuster.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Starter motor voltage |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong@xs4all.nl>
Thank you Bob...
> Until some folk on the list with a test setup, measurement
> equipment and time can go "get the numbers", there will
> be no advice backed with measurements. I think the risks
> are low but it's a good question to ask of the supplier
> of any contactor offered for this service.
>
> It would be pretty easy to get some data off a vehicle that
> has a starter controlled by external contactor. Lots of
> old Ford products have this setup. I'll keep an eye
> out for a test subject.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Testing "stalled" might not be so easy ofcourse.
Jan de Jong
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Voice annunciation |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rv-9a-online <rv-9a-online@telus.net>
My experience with the Rocky Mountain Micromonitor is that it will
generate alarm tones in the headset and/or a flashing light if any
parameter goes out of limits or if any of three general purpose sense
inputs are activated.
I drive my warning lamp, plus stall, flap motor, and boost pump
indicators from a dimmable annuciator controller. See
http://www3.telus.net/aviation/vx for more information.
The indicators don't have audible warnings-- it would be nice to add
one to the stall warning... It's easy to wire a piezo buzzer in parallel
with the lamp, but I've found that passengers really get upset when
alarms sound.
As for voice alerts, I use a Monroy ATD-300 traffic monitor. It has a
nice pleasant female voice that alerts me to traffic or low voltage. In
this case, you should have your eyes outside and your ears listening for
warnings.
Vern Little RV-9A
Glen Matejcek wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
>
>Hi All-
>
>Two companies ago I flew a plane with 13 different voice annunciations in
>addition to the GPWS. The voice was a husky feminine one that we referred
>to as 'Natashia'. It was pretty cool... for about 2 weeks. After that it
>got pretty annoying.
>
>The planes I've flown since all had voice annunciations, but only for the
>GPWS. That makes them (and your imminent demise) really stand out. I
>really prefer this arrangement, for what it's worth.
>
>The simplest / most effective convention I've been exposed to includes a
>red light and three audio chirps for a condition that may kill you if you
>don't address it pretty quick, and a single chirp with an amber light for a
>condition that will cause further equipment damage or perhaps kill you
>somewhere down the road if you don't deal with it at some point in time.
>
>What I'd like for my plane is a dimmable annunciator light system atop the
>glare shield that illuminates whenever a monitored system goes out of
>parameters. Whenever a light first illuminates, there would be a single
>chirp in the audio system.
>
>The big point here is that no one failure ever killed a pilot. However,
>several small and seemingly unrelated things can sometimes synergise in a
>most unpleasant way. Having the audio chirp wouldn't so much alert you
>that there is something bad happening, but rather that ANOTHER something
>bad is happening once you already have a light(s) illuminated.
>
>The downside for me is that this represents a technology that I'm not
>really motivated to master, at least not at this point.
>
>FWIW, YMMV...
>
>Glen Matejcek
>aerobubba@earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Powerdiode failure mode |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong@xs4all.nl>
I would like to know what happens to powerdiodes when they are destroyed
by excessive dissipation. Are they guaranteed to become open circuits or
is there a possibility of a short?
I hope somebody has the data.
Jan de Jong
Message 16
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| Subject: | Audio isolation amp board |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dee L. Conger" <dee@ansatainc.com>
Thanks Bob. I'm working on a Yak50 single seat airplane - I'd like to install
two com radio and an i-pod input and was thinking about using your isolation amp
as a sort of audio panel. Obviously, no need for an intercom, so this looks
like just the ticket. Any concerns in using it for this application?
dee
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Robert L. Nuckolls,
III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Audio isolation amp board
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:22 AM 2/17/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dee L. Conger" <dee@ansatainc.com>
>
>Bob - is the circuit board for your isolation amp available? If so,
>where?
>
Yes. See
http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
Bob . . .
Message 17
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| Subject: | Antenna / aerial questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst@taroom.qld.gov.au>
Dear Bob et al
The radio antenna kit supplied by the manufacturer of my kit contains 6m
of RG58C/U cable. It also contains some copper tape for the
manufacturing of a dipole antenna in the rear of the fin. Toroids were
also supplied and the aircraft is of fibreglass construction.
1) Considering cost/benefit etc, would I be wise to use RG400 cable
instead ?
2) Instead of using the copper tape (others have reported it cracking
after a while from temp changes), would it be okay to bring the inner
part of the aerial cable out through the braid and make the dipole of
these two cable components rather than other material ?
3) Use the toroids or not ?
Comments most welcome.
Regards
Kingsley Hurst
Europa 281 in Oz.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Powerdiode failure mode |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
Large power diodes almost always fail shorted since the package is very
robust and holds the silicon chip in place as it destroys itself. Of
course, if you REALLY overdo it, a lead could melt I suppose :-) .
Smaller diodes (which may still be a so called power diode - depends on
your definition) can fail either way depending on the magnitude of the
overload. If it is big enough to melt one of the (internal) connecting
leads then it fails open. If the leads hang together then it will fail
shorted.
Bottom line is that it depends on the actual construction of the diode
in question.
No guarantees. Sorry.
Dick Tasker
Jan de Jong wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong@xs4all.nl>
>
>I would like to know what happens to powerdiodes when they are destroyed
>by excessive dissipation. Are they guaranteed to become open circuits or
>is there a possibility of a short?
>I hope somebody has the data.
>
>Jan de Jong
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Garmin 330 High vs. Low? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Roger Evenson" <revenson@comcast.net>
The Garmin 330 Mode S transponder shows two traffic audio outputs, one marked "HIGH"
and one marked "LOW". What does this mean? Is this jargon for positive
and negative leads?
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna / aerial questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:37 AM 2/21/2005 +1000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst"
><khurst@taroom.qld.gov.au>
>
>Dear Bob et al
>
>The radio antenna kit supplied by the manufacturer of my kit contains 6m
>of RG58C/U cable. It also contains some copper tape for the
>manufacturing of a dipole antenna in the rear of the fin. Toroids were
>also supplied and the aircraft is of fibreglass construction.
>
>1) Considering cost/benefit etc, would I be wise to use RG400 cable
>instead ?
>
>2) Instead of using the copper tape (others have reported it cracking
>after a while from temp changes), would it be okay to bring the inner
>part of the aerial cable out through the braid and make the dipole of
>these two cable components rather than other material ?
>
>3) Use the toroids or not ?
tens of thousands of airplanes are flying with RG-58 in the
VHF comm system . . . The toroids don't do much but they
don't hurt either.
I've often wondered how well thin foil antennas perform when
bonded directly to composite shells. The differences in
thermal coefficient of expansion will probably cause cracks.
The width of the foil is a plus as it improves bandwidth of
the antenna. VHF comm has a greater spread of useful frequencies
(percentage wise) than any other service we use. The thin, flat
conductors are attractive. Making them out of copper makes them
solderable too.
Hmmmm . . . come to think of it, etched circuit board material
comes in big sheets of 0.062" fiberglas and epoxy with .0013"
copper sheet bonded to it. I've never heard any concern about
hairline cracks due to temperature cycling. I suspect your
worries don't have much foundation in physics. It's very
likely that your antenna assembled with the materials you
have will perform as expected for longer than you will
own the airplane.
Bob . . .
Message 21
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| Subject: | 115 vac 3 phase inverter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dee L. Conger" <dee@ansatainc.com>
I'm searching for a small, 28vdc to 115 vac 400hz, 3 phase inverter to power several
very nice JET attitude gyros. Does anyone know where I might find such
a thing? These indicators only require about 100va so a small unit would be just
fine. I'm not interested in one of the bulky rotary converters - a nice small
static inverter would work best.
Dee
Message 22
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| Subject: | Antenna / aerial questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst@taroom.qld.gov.au>
> It's very likely that your antenna assembled with the materials you
have will perform as expected for longer than you will own the airplane.
Bob,
Many thanks once again. At 61 yrs of age, the above were my sentiments
too but just thought I'd check.
Do not archive.
Cheers
Kingsley
Message 23
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
theer are a number of aspects to warning systems which have not been made
clear in the exchanges I've seen lately. This is not to talk down to others
but to make known the advantages of such a system to those who may not be
familiar with modern large commercial aircraft.
The Master Caution and Warning panel contains both Warning [red] and Caution
[orange] Switch-Lights. A switch light tells you one thing when it's at
rest, and another when it's been activated. It, too, shows different colours
according to the severity of its function. For instance, in the original
L1011 pretakeoff item where I was, the last item before throttle-up was a
black cockpit (no beefs).
When a 'killer' item exists and is detected by the system, a red warning
switchlight goes from black [dark, unlit] to red, and an aural sound is
generated. This does two things - it tells the crew something serious is
wrong and it tells the lawyers to pay attention to the accuracy and
comprehension of the crew - the tapes. When the pilot designated [depends on
the airline] reacts, he first states the fault detected (tape again) and
then pushes the switchlight. This 'resets' the system for the next warning,
tells the lawyers what the pilot thinks [tape] and times the coming
reaction. It also might indicate the steps taken in a semi-automatic system
(such as three-man crew down to two might have). The tape then records the
separate and combined actions of the crew and their proper order.
This usually presumes at least two fliers, one concentrating on control of
the aircraft and one reacting to the warning which then sets off a series of
practiced functions, each as prescribed by the manual.
When you are alone in the plane, you are the flier, the reaction,and the
lawyer all rolled up into one - so the heat's on you.
I believe this might be one time when Electric Bob - and a few others - may
agree that a sound to add to the complexity - might be excusable? I intend
anyway to have a wake-up horn, bell, tinkle or succulent voice for any
detected killer item I can forecast.
Now, Caution [orange] is another matter and perhaps we should distinguish
between W and C. Certainly, the latest dark and stormy story is a yellow, so
there might be some room for some discussion there..............
E-Bob, Old Bob, Eric, boys?
ferg
europa A064
Message 24
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
"Time: 09:44:05 AM PST US
From: WRBYARS@aol.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: WRBYARS@aol.com
Perhaps I missed out on something earlier, however in my airplanes you
could
"loose", or turn off, ALL of the electrical system, and continue to fly as
long as the gas held out (during VFR). The engine runs off of a magneto
thus
supplying It's own power and doesn't need a battery, etc.
Confused, "
Bill Byars
Me too. Which was meant, "Loose" or "lose"? Spelling counts, and
'loose' is an adjective...............
Cheers, Ferg
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna / aerial questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Ruttan" <ericruttan@chartermi.net>
> I've often wondered how well thin foil antennas perform when
> bonded directly to composite shells. The differences in
> thermal coefficient of expansion will probably cause cracks.
> The width of the foil is a plus as it improves bandwidth of
> the antenna. VHF comm has a greater spread of useful frequencies
> (percentage wise) than any other service we use. The thin, flat
> conductors are attractive. Making them out of copper makes them
> solderable too.
>
> Hmmmm . . . come to think of it, etched circuit board material
> comes in big sheets of 0.062" fiberglas and epoxy with .0013"
> copper sheet bonded to it. I've never heard any concern about
> hairline cracks due to temperature cycling. I suspect your
> worries don't have much foundation in physics. It's very
> likely that your antenna assembled with the materials you
> have will perform as expected for longer than you will
> own the airplane.
>
> Bob . . .
I cant wrangle electrons, but this I know. Thousands of Burt Rutan's canard
composites, and derivatives of, have put copper foil strip antennas in the
winglets. No problems.
An example can be found here
http://www.canardaviation.com/cozy/chap20.htm
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: 115 vac 3 phase inverter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski@provalue.net>
Dee,
Try this British guy. Below is an exchange of messages with him several
months ago.
>> How much do you charge for the inverter? Thank you,
Jerzy
> lightwork@aerosys.co.uk <mailto:lightwork@aerosys.co.uk>
> Hi Jerzy,
>
> Thanks for the enquiry and apologies for the delay in getting back to
> you. The price of the inverter alone is 165.00 ukp + shipping, to
> include cables to your specification. Delivery is 2-3 weeks from recipt
> of order, with a lifetime guarantee. It will power all the smaller gyros
> and can be built either as a single or three phase unit.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris
>
Dee L. Conger wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dee L. Conger" <dee@ansatainc.com>
>
>I'm searching for a small, 28vdc to 115 vac 400hz, 3 phase inverter to power several
very nice JET attitude gyros. Does anyone know where I might find such
a thing? These indicators only require about 100va so a small unit would be
just fine. I'm not interested in one of the bulky rotary converters - a nice
small static inverter would work best.
>
>Dee
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Antenna / aerial questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:00 PM 2/21/2005 +1000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst"
><khurst@taroom.qld.gov.au>
>
> > It's very likely that your antenna assembled with the materials you
>have will perform as expected for longer than you will own the airplane.
>
>Bob,
>
>Many thanks once again. At 61 yrs of age, the above were my sentiments
>too but just thought I'd check.
>
>Do not archive.
>
>Cheers
>Kingsley
Kingsley,
Check out the files you'll find at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Antennas
There's a .pdf file on commonly circulated antenna myths
and a comic book series of photos on attaching coax to foil
antennas.
I suspect most antennas that are "lost" after embedding in
fiberglas are due to failure at the coax termination. The
technique suggested in the series of photos offers excellent
mechanical support to these rather fragile joints after
soldering.
Bob . . .
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 330 High vs. Low? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:06 PM 2/20/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Roger Evenson"
><revenson@comcast.net>
>
>The Garmin 330 Mode S transponder shows two traffic audio outputs, one
>marked "HIGH" and one marked "LOW". What does this mean? Is this jargon
>for positive and negative leads?
Essentially, yes. HI and LO used to be really significant
in some venues where the audio system used balanced lines
between black boxes and both sides were isolated from ground.
Then, the HI and LO labels were useful for phasing. Nowadays,
the vast majority of autio is carried on unbalanced lines and
LO is the shield side of the signal . . . if you do an ohmmeter
check between any audio LO pin and power ground, they'll be
directly connected.
Bob . . .
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 330 High vs. Low? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Frank & Dorothy <frankvdh@xtra.co.nz>
Roger Evenson wrote:
>The Garmin 330 Mode S transponder shows two traffic audio outputs, one marked
"HIGH" and one marked "LOW". What does this mean? Is this jargon for positive
and negative leads?
>
>
Traffic at higher and lower altutdes than you perhaps?
Or perhaps female or male voice annunciation?
Sorry, couldn't resist. :-)
Message 30
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| Subject: | Ex Pilot Question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
Question for the Trio Ez Pilot and Navaid (since they use basically the same
servo) folks. The installation instructions for the Ez Pilot recommend a
shielded wire for the PWM (servo movement commands)signal line from the
control head to the servo. Do I need to find some shielded wire for this
and what should I use? Is there a Tefzel or MIL-SPEC coaxial cable that I
could/should use? What gauge would it be and where would I get it? Is this
a big deal or could I just use an unshielded wire here? What is the
frequency of the pulse width modulation that Trio uses? Would it be an
antagonist to my radios and audio system? Thanks.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Can't wait to fly this thing!!!
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: 115 vac 3 phase inverter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
Dee Hi!
> I'm searching for a small, 28vdc to 115 vac 400hz, 3 phase inverter to power
> several very nice JET attitude gyros.
A Company here in UK may still be able to supply that requirement.
It was in their Catalogue last year with a new Catalogue due out.
It's Listed as: Inverter 28V DC to 115V 3 phase. Ideal use for Ferranti
FH32.
That would be a UK built Attitude Indicator for the Military and be a fairly
substantial Unit with corresponding power requirement so this inverter
should be adequate.
Size: 150x80x50mm or in proper measurement....6"x3"X2". Weight 700g or 1.5
US Pounds
It's part No: RD 102/28. Price $290.00 but subtract 17.5% as you dont need
to pay UK Value added Tax.
Company details: http://www.afeonline.com or for e-mail:
enquiries@afeonline.com
Tel No: +44 161 499 0023
Best of Luck!
I used one on a Ferranti FH14 Attitude Indicator. The Inverter device was
fine and physically quiet with no perceived RF Noise although I think it
would need careful placement. It indicated a 6A+ draw at 12V on start up and
settled to about 2A.
I'll call then later this morning and get an update to you (I'm in UK).
Regards
Gerry
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