Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:52 AM - Transponder External Suppression (Mickey Coggins)
2. 05:36 AM - Re: Transponder External Suppression (Fred Fillinger)
3. 06:57 AM - Re: EFIS Backup Battery (CozyGirrrl@aol.com)
4. 07:14 AM - Re: wire labeling practices (Bobby Hester)
5. 08:00 AM - Re: wire labeling practices (Ken)
6. 08:30 AM - Re: wire labeling practices (Walter Tondu)
7. 09:42 AM - Re: Switch type (Charlie Kuss)
8. 11:09 AM - Wire Labeling ()
9. 04:16 PM - Wiring trace for headset? (Dr. Andrew Elliott)
10. 07:03 PM - Re: Avionics wiring redo (Ken Simmons)
11. 07:18 PM - Re: Re: Avionics wiring redo (Dww0708@aol.com)
12. 07:20 PM - Wire ratings (Richard E. Tasker)
13. 07:39 PM - Re: Wiring trace for headset? (Charlie England)
14. 07:57 PM - Re: wire labeling practices (Walter Tondu)
15. 07:58 PM - Re: Air pressure switch (Larry Ford)
16. 09:04 PM - Re: Re: Avionics wiring redo (Ken Simmons)
17. 09:09 PM - Re: wire labeling practices (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 09:11 PM - Re: Transponder External Suppression (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 09:15 PM - Re: EFIS Backup Battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 09:50 PM - Fluke Meter (Greg Larson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Transponder External Suppression |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
My Narco AT155 transponder has a pair of wires that
are labeled "External Suppression (+) and (-).
The text says:
"The AT155 transponder may be externally suppressed by
other avionics equipment whose transmissions may be
interfered with by simultaneous AT155 transmissions.
P101-15 may be connected to equipment that supply
positive suppression pulses. P101-1 may be connected
to equipment that supply negative suppression pulses."
Should I try to hook one of these up to my Icom IC-A200
comm radio, or is there no conflict between transponder
output and radio input?
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder External Suppression |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
> ...
> Should I try to hook one of these up to my Icom
> IC-A200 comm radio, or is there no conflict between
> transponder output and radio input?
>
> Thanks,
> Mickey
>
External suppression is intended for purposes other than VHF devices.
The frequencies are so far apart that VHF comm transmissions shouldn't
interfere with xponder. Nor do you even want to suppress xponder
replies while talking to ATC.
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: EFIS Backup Battery |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: CozyGirrrl@aol.com
Scott, what you are looking for is a small device from West Marine Products
called a Battery Combiner
...Chrissi
_www.CozyGirrrl.com_ (http://www.cozygirrrl.com/)
Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo
Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: wire labeling practices |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
Richard Dudley wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Dudley <rhdudley@att.net>
>
>Hi Jay,
>I have followed the procedure that Bob Nuccolls wrote about. That is
>printing labels and covering them with clear shrink tubing. I used a
>couple of wrinkles that might be a slightly different. Since I use an
>ink jet printer, and knowing that the ink is water affected, I printed
>them on plain paper using the label program for a specific Avery label.
>Then took the paper to Kinko's and had them copy them onto Avery labels
>that I supplied. Their charge was the regular copying per page charge. I
>then peeled off the labels, cut out the pieces that I wanted to use,
>wrapped the label around the wire and shrunk clear shrink tubing that I
>bought from Aeroelectric (now, probably from B&S). By using a small
>point size font and repeating the text vertically, some text will show
>without having to specially orient the label.
>
>This worked well for me and was very easy to do.
>
>If some of this is a bit unclear, I' d be glad to try to re-explain any
>part.
>
I was going to use an laser printer to print my labels and then clear
heat shrink. Problem was the printer was at work and I needed to make
labels as I was running wires.
I bought a Brother P-Touch label maker and made labels as I worked cut
them down to size and clear heat shrinked worked great!
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: wire labeling practices |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Well someone has to enter a minority opinion here. I tried the clear
heat shrink and abandoned it. Trimming labels, rolling the little
devils, and squeezing heat shrink over them was slow and tedious and I
abandoned it. Even with two lines of the smallest text from a P-Touch
you couldn't always read the label on 22awg wire. Granted I dealt with
more wires than most aircraft have and I am not a fast worker. Since
part of the point of labelling them was to route them and then connect
the other end, it didn't help when the label would get cut off anyway
when the wire was cut to exact size. If the label isn't near the end of
the wire it isn't much use so putting it farther up the wire didn't help
much. And yes the heat shrink bulked up wire bundles considerably. I did
use some multi color tefzel to help sort out wires but yes it's going to
be more difficult to make changes at a later date without the labels.
Temporary masking tape labels during construction and a good wiring
diagram was the best I could do short of getting hold of a continuous
professional wire labeller. Also I found a labelled diagram of the
forest of tabs ground block connections to be helpful.
On the bright side I am finding that two lines of white lettering on
clear 1/2" P-touch tape seems to make quite acceptable panel labelling
on my medium gray panel.
Ken
Bobby Hester wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
>
>Richard Dudley wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Dudley <rhdudley@att.net>
>>
>>Hi Jay,
>>I have followed the procedure that Bob Nuccolls wrote about. That is
>>printing labels and covering them with clear shrink tubing. I used a
>>couple of wrinkles that might be a slightly different. Since I use an
>>ink jet printer, and knowing that the ink is water affected, I printed
>>them on plain paper using the label program for a specific Avery label.
>>Then took the paper to Kinko's and had them copy them onto Avery labels
>>that I supplied. Their charge was the regular copying per page charge. I
>>then peeled off the labels, cut out the pieces that I wanted to use,
>>wrapped the label around the wire and shrunk clear shrink tubing that I
>>bought from Aeroelectric (now, probably from B&S). By using a small
>>point size font and repeating the text vertically, some text will show
>>without having to specially orient the label.
>>
>>This worked well for me and was very easy to do.
>>
>>If some of this is a bit unclear, I' d be glad to try to re-explain any
>>part.
>>
>>
>>
>I was going to use an laser printer to print my labels and then clear
>heat shrink. Problem was the printer was at work and I needed to make
>labels as I was running wires.
>
>I bought a Brother P-Touch label maker and made labels as I worked cut
>them down to size and clear heat shrinked worked great!
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: wire labeling practices |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
See entry dated 9/12/04
http://www.rv7-a.com/avionics_panel_2.htm
K-Sun 2001 XLS. For $300 bucks you get everything you need
to do a professional job. Yes, it's expensive but I guarantee
you'll save a TON of time. Time IS money.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Message 7
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Scott,
If I understand you correctly, you want a 3 pole, double throw (3
position) switch. I am using one of these for my flap control. I ordered
this from Mouser Electronics. The Carling Technologies (same manufacturer
of the B&C switches) part number is: HM251-78
This was a special order part from Mouser.
Charlie Kuss
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Winn (Matronics List)"
><swmat@cox.net>
>
>I have a switching application on my panel that selects between Off,
>Primary and Aux. The switch I selected to perform the switching is a
>2-1 type switch. The problem I am having is that everything else on my
>panel is pointed down for the off positsion. The 2-1 switch has it's
>off position in the middle which isn't what I want. I would really like
>to be consistent with the operation of the switches on my panel so that
>when something is turned Off, it is pointed down. I need a DP3T switch
>to perform this task, but B & C doesn't carry one. It is also very
>important to me to have identical size and feel of switches on the
>panel, so I'd prefer to get a switch that exactly matches the size,
>shape and operation of the B & C switches. Since I ordered a bunch of
>switches from them, I Iooked up the manufacturer and it appears that
>they do not manufacture a DP3T switch. Does anyone know of a DP3T
>switch that has the same size bat toggle as the B&C switches?
>
>--Scott
>
>
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: Jay Brinkmeyer
<jaybrinkmeyer@yahoo.com>
<<Can someone point me to a good source/example of wire labeling and
identification best practices? Are folks using fancy mil-spec labels, just
printing & heat shrinking them on, or something else??? Thanks in advance,
Jay>>
2/27/2005
Hello Jay, There are many different ways to skin this cat. Here is one of
the simplest and cheapest -- very durable.
1) Print labels on plain printer paper in small type (or to suit wire
diameter) with either Microsoft Word or Excel. You can copy and paste to
generate many dozens of labels on one sheet of paper.
2) Cut the labels off the sheet one at a time with a scissors as you need
them. Two line labels work best for me.
3) Crimp roll the cut off label a bit along their length around a round
toothpick or piece of wire.
4) Cut off a piece of clear shrink tube about a 1/4 -- 3/8 inch longer on
each end than the length of the label. Choose a size of shrink tube that
will squeeze down tight on the wire when heated.
5) Stuff the cut off and curled label into the shrink tube -- a straightened
out large size paper clip (or other poking tool) can be used to center the
label lengthwise in the piece of shrink tube.
(Actually I normally cut off the piece of shrink tube before I cut the label
off so that once I cut the label off the large paper sheet I can curl the
label and stuff it in the tube without ever setting the teeny label down).
6) Slide the shrink tube with the label curled inside into position on the
wire -- preferably before you crimp on the terminal unless you just want
practice in cutting off and replacing terminals.
7) Heat the shrink tube with a heat gun. Admire. Move on to the next label
needed. Pretty soon you realize that you can set up several labels and
shrink them all with one heating of the heat gun.
A tip: If you are using multiple wire connectors like AMP Mate-n-Lock or
similar, consider positioning the labels at different places along the
various wires so that you don't wind up with all the shrink tubes clumped
together.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - 11/17/03
Message 9
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| Subject: | Wiring trace for headset? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott@cox.net>
Gang:
I have a headphone/mic jack pair installed in my plane in a location
where it would be very hard to get a meter on the back side. Elsewhere
in the panel, I have the ends of four wires that run to these jacks. I
know that they must be audio signal, audio ground, mic audio and mic
key. My question is: Using a multimeter and a headset with a
push-to-talk button built in, can I determine which wire is which? If
so, how?
Thanks,
Andy Elliott
N481HY/AA-1(TD,160)/KFFZ
That's "One Hot Yankee"
http://members.cox.net/n481hy/
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Avionics wiring redo |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
I found some if not all of my noise problem. I checked the wiring a little more
carefully and discovered the mic and headset jacks are grounded to the airframe.
I thought neither one of these should be grounded to the airframe, but a couple
of intercom manuals I looked at indicate only the microphone ground should
be isolated. The simple test I did seems to indicate the headphone jack does
make a difference. I pulled it from it's mount and the small noise from the
strobe system was gone. I didn't get a chance to fire up the engine today, but
I'm confident most of that noise would be eliminated as well.
Since the noise might be a non-issue, I'm considering leaving the PM501 and using
one of Bob's audio isolation amps to get the stereo that I want. Any opinions?
One other question on my endeavor to learn the electrical system on this plane.
I noticed a small box, about 1 1/2 by 2 inches and 1/4 inch thick. It looks like
a metal potting box. It has a red and black wire at one corner and a green,
yellow and red wire coming out of another corner. I'm having trouble tracing
the wires to the other ends. Any idea on what this is? Forgive my ignorance.
Thanks.
Ken
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: rv-9a-online <rv-9a-online@telus.net>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rv-9a-online <rv-9a-online@telus.net>
>
>Sounds like you are on the right track.
>
>As for re-doing the avionics wiring, if I was a betting man, I'd gamble
>that you will. Once you start digging and deciphering some one else's
>wiring, you probably find it faster and more enjoyable to just start again.
>
>And I bet you'll add a few things to the panel as well. You know, once
>it's out... how about a moving map, satellite radio, microwave oven...
>
>Good luck. Anyone can pound rivets. Real men wire their own panels. :-).
>
>Vern Little
>
>
>Ken Simmons wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
>>
>>I'm trying to troubleshoot a whine in the headset audio. I bought the plane finished
and it wasn't an issue until I started using a high quality stereo headset.
I had already planned to replace the existing PM501 with a stereo intercom,
possibly a Flightcom 403.
>>
>>The noise is present with everything off but the engine and intercom and changes
with engine RPM. The plane does have electronic ignition on one side. I believe
the problem is in how the avionics were wired. For some reason the builder
passed power and audio signals through a terminal strip. I haven't completely
traced it, but it looks like the grounds to the headset jacks originate from
a common ground on the terminal strip, which all go back to a ground bus.
>>
>>I'm also going to install an auto pilot when I upgrade the intercom. Since I'll
have to tap into the only comm/gps radio and replace the intercom it seems
sensible to just redo the entire avionics wiring. Am I creating to much work for
myself or does this seem a reasonable approach?
>>
>>Thanks.
>>Ken
>>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Avionics wiring redo |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dww0708@aol.com
might be a voltage regulator, does it have an adjustment screw on it
Message 12
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
Bob:
I was just browsing through the new stuff on aeroelectric.com and came
across some conflicting data.
The "Wire chart excerpted from chapter 8 of the 'Connection" shows lots
of useful information but it shows the current ratings with a heading of
"10C rise current". The entries are the same for the 35 C column in
your "Wire Size Selection" paper where you list the ratings for both 10
C rise and 35 C rise.
I believe that the heading should be "35 C", not "10 C".
Dick Tasker
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring trace for headset? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Dr. Andrew Elliott wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott@cox.net>
>
>Gang:
>
>I have a headphone/mic jack pair installed in my plane in a location
>where it would be very hard to get a meter on the back side. Elsewhere
>in the panel, I have the ends of four wires that run to these jacks. I
>know that they must be audio signal, audio ground, mic audio and mic
>key. My question is: Using a multimeter and a headset with a
>push-to-talk button built in, can I determine which wire is which? If
>so, how?
>
>Thanks,
>Andy Elliott
>N481HY/AA-1(TD,160)/KFFZ
>That's "One Hot Yankee"
>http://members.cox.net/n481hy/
>
Attach one lead of your ohm meter to the shell (the metal tube into
which the plug is inserted) of the headphone jack. Probe the wires with
the other ohm meter lead until you see one with near 0 ohms resistance.
That's ground.
Plug in the headphone plug (larger diameter one) only & measure with
your ohm meter between ground & the other wires until you find one that
measures somewhere between 300 & 1000 ohms. That's the phones audio
line. Unplug the headset phone plug.
Now plug in the mic plug (smaller diameter one). Attach one lead of the
ohm meter to the ground wire & probe one of the remaining 2 wires,
pressing & releasing the push to talk button. If you see a change from
open circuit to near 0 ohms as you press the PTT, that's the mic key
line. If no joy, repeat with the other line. The remaining line is mic
audio.
Charlie
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: wire labeling practices |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
On 02/27 1:05, Charlie Kuss wrote:
> Do you have to buy "special" heat shrink tubing for this printer?
> If so, how much does it cost? Where can I buy one?
Yes. $26 per roll. You'll go through about 4-5 rolls on an RV
if you label both ends of every single stinking wire :) Ask
me how I know.
But, man is it a snap to do it. Type in the characters you
want, press print, stick it on the wire, heat that sucker. Boom,
move on to the next one.
It will label wires as small as 20 guage. 22 guage works too
but it's not really tight on the cable and you can pull it off.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Air pressure switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Ford" <psychden@sonic.net>
Take a look at the World Magnetics Ultra Sensitive Pressure Switch # 9011-902.
Digikey # 384-1010-ND. It is adjustable between 0.1- 0.4 PSI which should provide
a range of 65- 160 kts. There is a deadband noted but not a value but it's
under $15 so two switches could be used with each set for a specific airspeed.
The device uses fast-on spade connectors with a NO and NC plus common. I'm
searching for a pressure switch NC with a 1/8" NPT, set point anywhere from 200-
500psi (proof pressure in excess of 1500 psi) that would warn of a low pressure/
gear not down and locked situation. In series with the above airspeed sensor,
one would have an even better landing gear alarm design as opposed to just
having power to the "down" circuit. Larry Ford, Glasair I RG N149LF, 270hrs
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Avionics wiring redo |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
I didn't see an adjustment screw, but that is a possiblity. At first I dismissed
that possiblity because the wires were small, but they don't have to be large
to regulate the alternator.
Thanks.
Ken
DO NOT ARCHIVE
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Dww0708@aol.com
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dww0708@aol.com
>
>might be a voltage regulator, does it have an adjustment screw on it
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: wire labeling practices |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:00 AM 2/27/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
>
>Well someone has to enter a minority opinion here. I tried the clear
>heat shrink and abandoned it. Trimming labels, rolling the little
>devils, and squeezing heat shrink over them was slow and tedious and I
>abandoned it.
I print labels out in full sheets of Avery label material . . .
stick the whole sheet down on a poly cutting board and then
use an Xacto knife to cut out the labels.
> Even with two lines of the smallest text from a P-Touch
>you couldn't always read the label on 22awg wire.
A single line of 8pt "Technic" fits on a 22AWG as
shown at the top of:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/s817c.jpg
> Granted I dealt with
>more wires than most aircraft have and I am not a fast worker. Since
>part of the point of labelling them was to route them and then connect
>the other end, it didn't help when the label would get cut off anyway
>when the wire was cut to exact size. If the label isn't near the end of
>the wire it isn't much use so putting it farther up the wire didn't help
>much.
These labels will slide on the wire. I put them on the end to "find"
the wire and slide it so that it's just at the terminal end when
trimmed to fit.
> And yes the heat shrink bulked up wire bundles considerably. I did
>use some multi color tefzel to help sort out wires but yes it's going to
>be more difficult to make changes at a later date without the labels.
Bulk? Where were you using labels where more than 4-6 wires came
together into a single component?
Bob . . .
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder External Suppression |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:51 AM 2/27/2005 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
><mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>My Narco AT155 transponder has a pair of wires that
>are labeled "External Suppression (+) and (-).
>
>The text says:
>
>"The AT155 transponder may be externally suppressed by
>other avionics equipment whose transmissions may be
>interfered with by simultaneous AT155 transmissions.
>P101-15 may be connected to equipment that supply
>positive suppression pulses. P101-1 may be connected
>to equipment that supply negative suppression pulses."
>
>Should I try to hook one of these up to my Icom IC-A200
>comm radio, or is there no conflict between transponder
>output and radio input?
No. This output is used only for blanking DME
receivers.
Bob . . .
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: EFIS Backup Battery |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:32 PM 2/26/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Winn (Matronics List)"
><swmat@cox.net>
>
>The EFIS we are installing in our aircraft provides multiple power input
>terminals, and automatically selects the terminal with the highest
>voltage present to power the device. The primary power input is from
>our endurance bus. I'd like to utilize a small, 1.2AH sealed lead acid
>AGM battery to provide sufficient voltage to drive the EFIS during
>engine start when the main bus voltage will fall and cause the EFIS to
>reset.
>
>I would like this battery to be charged by the ships main bus, but not
>allow current to flow from this battery to the main bus. I can isolate
>the battery from the main bus with a diode, but I'm concerned that it
>won't get fully charged with the voltage drop across the diode.
>
>My second idea is to use a comparator circuit that drives a relay to
>connect the 1.2AH battery to the main bus when the bus voltage exceeds
>13.0 volts, and disconnect it when it falls below this value. This
>would allow the small battery to receive a full charge when the
>alternator is charging, but disconnect it when the voltage falls below
>the charge current.
>
>Has anyone done something like this before? Is there a better/simpler
>way to provide suffient voltage to the EFIS during tartup than what I
>proposing? I thought about a capacitor, but I think it would have to be
>pretty large. The total EFIS current draw will be about 4 amps and I
>want the EFIS to continue to function even during extended cranking.
The battery isolator you need is exactly what you've
proposed and described as both a product and a DIY
project at:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/LVWarn-ABMM.html
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/9021-620.pdf
you can buy an ECB to assemble the project at:
http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
Bob . . .
Message 20
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Greg Larson" <hanzonn@earthlink.net>
Greetings,
I have the opportunity to buy a Fluke multimeter (any) at a substantial
discount. Any recommendations on which model or features I need for
building a RV-7?
Thanks, Greg
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