Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:56 AM - Re: Interior lighting (Harley)
2. 05:30 AM - DigiKey Batteries (Ben Schneider)
3. 07:17 AM - Re: DigiKey Batteries (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
4. 07:24 AM - APU vs Battery (Glen Matejcek)
5. 08:29 AM - Re: Interior lighting (Mark R Steitle)
6. 10:19 AM - Re: Re: APU vs Battery (Leo Corbalis)
7. 10:19 AM - Re: DigiKey Batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 10:24 AM - Re: Small "Forest of Tabs" (rv-9a-online)
9. 11:02 AM - Re: Re: APU vs Battery (Mark Cochran)
10. 11:13 AM - Re: DigiKey Batteries (Hans Teijgeler)
11. 11:20 AM - Re: Avionics Grounds (was: Small "Forest of Tabs") (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 12:01 PM - alternator as load (Jan de Jong)
13. 12:18 PM - Re: alternator as load (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 12:33 PM - Adding an AUX Battery to Z-13 (Gary Lineberry)
15. 12:44 PM - Re: alternator as load (Matt Prather)
16. 01:27 PM - Z13 and SS contactor? (Jan de Jong)
17. 01:41 PM - APU vs Battery (BobsV35B@aol.com)
18. 02:02 PM - Re: Adding an AUX Battery to Z-13 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 02:29 PM - 21st century power systems. (Paul Messinger)
20. 02:35 PM - Re: alternator as load (Jan de Jong)
21. 03:01 PM - Re: 21st century power systems. (Harley)
22. 03:15 PM - Re: Re: alternator as load (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 03:27 PM - Re: 21st century power systems. (Matt Prather)
24. 03:28 PM - Re: 21st century power systems. (Paul Messinger)
25. 03:59 PM - Re: 21st century power systems. (AI Nut)
26. 04:27 PM - Re: 21st century power systems. (Paul Messinger)
27. 05:06 PM - Re: alternator as load (Jan de Jong)
28. 05:23 PM - Clinic in St. Louis and P-Mag call ? (Bill Schlatterer)
29. 05:45 PM - Re: 21st century power systems. (AI Nut)
30. 06:01 PM - Re: 21st century power systems. (N1deltawhiskey@aol.com)
31. 06:01 PM - Re: Interior lighting (N1deltawhiskey@aol.com)
32. 06:18 PM - Re: Clinic in St. Louis and P-Mag call ? (rv-9a-online)
33. 07:43 PM - Re: Batteries - Off topic (Jim Stone)
34. 07:50 PM - Re: Question about dimmer circuits and annunicators... (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
35. 08:16 PM - Re: Question about dimmer circuits and annunicators... (Marcos Della)
36. 08:16 PM - Re: 21st century power systems. (Paul Messinger)
37. 10:49 PM - Re: Small "Forest of Tabs" (Guy Buchanan)
38. 10:49 PM - Re: Small "Forest of Tabs" (Guy Buchanan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Interior lighting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley <harley@agelesswings.com>
Doug...
Is it on this page (Mark Hall...note there are also a variety of dimmers
at the bottom of the page)?
*http://tinyurl.com/4j5ey**
If not, West Marine's web site has their entire catalog online...
www.westmarine.com
Harley
*
*
*
N1deltawhiskey@aol.com wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 06-Mar-05 4:56:56 Pacific Standard Time,
>mwiebe@sympatico.ca writes:
>Second solution is to light that cargo bay at night, in order set up the
>sleeping bag for beddy-by time, drink hot cocoa with a good book, etc.
>A little LED array seems like the perfect solution (again A/S part
>number 11-02882), but at a reasonable price.
>
>Mike,
>
>I found a small oblong 12 v LED lighting unit used for boat step lighting at
>West Marine. Price was around $10 as I recall. They are made by a well known
>manufacturer, but not at the hanger, and cannot recall who they are. They
>come in red, white and possibly other colors. I plan to use one to shed light
>on the floorboards, possibly overall cockpit lighting for that mount/dismount
>activity, and possibly also for the baggage compartment.
>
>Regards, Doug Windhorn
>
>Regards, Doug Windhorn
>
>
>
>
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 2
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| Subject: | DigiKey Batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ben Schneider <plumberben@yahoo.com>
Bob,
As per one of our discussions at the Wicks seminar this past weekend
(which I thoroughly enjoyed by the way), I find that Digikey lists two
Panasonic batteries that are the same size physically, but one is a 17AH
12V battery, and the other a 20AH 12v battery, both have "nut/bolt"
terminals on them. (part number P174-ND @ $38.36, weighs 14.3lbs, and part
number P231-ND @ $44.68, weighs 14.6lbs) In my simple mind, wouldn't it be
wise to get the 20AH battery that is the same size, almost no weight
difference, and only 6 bucks more. Just to refresh your memory, I am using
a Mazda rotary engine that is electrically dependant, and will have dual
bat/dual alt.
Am I missing something? Seems to me to be an obvious choice.
Thanks,
Ben Schneider RV7 Mazda Renesis rotary,
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: DigiKey Batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 3/7/05 7:30:52 AM Central Standard Time,
plumberben@yahoo.com writes:
> wouldn't it be
> wise to get the 20AH battery that is the same size, almost no weight
> difference, and only 6 bucks more
>>>>
I've had one in my RV-6A for a little over a year, 153 hours. Cranks my 150
hp Lyc fine using an old Prestolite style direct-drive starter, even after
sitting for a month without a trickle charge (in paint shop), and as low as 40
degrees. Will be ordering a new one soon.
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips N51PW
Message 4
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Anecdote Warning- All those Easily Offended by Lack of Direct Relevance,
please delete now!
Speaking of back to the future, or forward to the past, somewhere around
the late teens or early twenties Hisso came up with a starting system much
like the system Matt has recently described. As I understand it, the
engine (150 hp for one) was primed, the prop positioned, and a mag at or in
the cockpit cranked. A plug sparked, and voila, the engine started. This
is the same system employed on that incredible Jenny at OSH last year.
But wait, there's more! There was a German WWII era jet bomber at Silver
Hill that had a curious APU set up. It was a twin engine, all plywood
Heinkle (SP?) Salamander, IIRC. There was a circular hole in tip of the
inlet bullet. Straddling this hole and aligned with the relative wind was
what looked like a giant flat washer. I asked the docent what that was
about, and he told me that it was the pull start handle for the small
reciprocating engine that spun the jet engine up for starting.
So. Some of the strange ideas on this list have been in mass production
before, in one form or another. With the collective genius of this group
and the technologies currently available, I, for one, have great hope for
refined versions and reinvented wheels.
We now return to our regularly scheduled listing....
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 5
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| Subject: | Interior lighting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark R Steitle" <mark.steitle@austin.utexas.edu>
Mike,
Have you seen the 24/36 led board assemblies available from
Superbrightleds.com? They're a 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" board with 24 or 36
white leds, and a choice of an 1156 or a T10 pigtail & socket. If you
don't want the socket, cut it off and wire directly to your
switch/dimmer. They're made for mounting overhead. I bought the 24 led
unit for my overhead console in my Lancair.
Link: http://www.superbrightleds.com/other_bulbs.htm
Mark S.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
& Lee Anne Wiebe
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Interior lighting
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike & Lee Anne Wiebe"
<mwiebe@sympatico.ca>
Listers..Thanks all for advice on the fuse panel. Bussman looks like my
solution.
On to the next problem, interior lighting. So that you can understand
my mission, this is an amphibious float plane with predominant
instrumentation being an EFIS. It will fly occasionally at night (try
landing on your favourite lake at night, and you'll know why I say
"occasionally" <g>). However, it is fully open to the back, so it will
also be used as an overnight camper on those fishing trips to nowhere.
I'm looking for two lighting solutions. First is some simple panel
lighting, in the form of a swivel-able, focus-able, dimmable light I can
mount up high left and right, and use to wash light into the corners of
the panel where there is no EFIS, but there are unlit switches, etc.
The Aircraft $pruce solution is sort of what I had in mind (part number
S1990/12), but I can't help think there is something more cost
effective, without having to build from scratch. I really don't want to
get fancy luminescence bars, bezels or post lights for this "occasional"
need. With the mini-mag on the headset, I just need some night-vision
friendly overhead fill-in to keep the scary monsters away.
Second solution is to light that cargo bay at night, in order set up the
sleeping bag for beddy-by time, drink hot cocoa with a good book, etc.
A little LED array seems like the perfect solution (again A/S part
number 11-02882), but at a reasonable price. I tried DigiKey, who seem
to have a ton of them. However, it's all most too many choices for my
mechanically adept, electrically challenged mind to ponder. Anybody
have a good idea?
Mike
p.s. I gotta tell you about a cool toy. As I start to cut metal for
the panel, I've been investigating GPS solutions. A closer look has
sealed my decision on a Garmin 296. It appears that they have a module
that will turn it into a fishfinder/depthfinder. Isn't that the
ultimate decadence - land on the lake, switch modes on the GPS and troll
for fish. Now all I need is electric downriggers on the belly, and I'll
never have to get out of the plane! I'm selling the idea to my wife on
the merits of knowing the depth so that I don't damage those expensive
floats...
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: APU vs Battery |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Oke" <wjoke@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: APU vs Battery
Just for fun. When I was flying B-47 (the origional stealth bomber cause
nobody ever heard of it) on starting a engine with a siezed turbine wheel,
the GPU almost flipped over on the crewchief when the locked starter motor
acted like a dead short circuit.
Leo Corbalis
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: DigiKey Batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:28 AM 3/7/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ben Schneider <plumberben@yahoo.com>
>
>Bob,
>
> As per one of our discussions at the Wicks seminar this past weekend
>(which I thoroughly enjoyed by the way), I find that Digikey lists two
>Panasonic batteries that are the same size physically, but one is a 17AH
>12V battery, and the other a 20AH 12v battery, both have "nut/bolt"
>terminals on them. (part number P174-ND @ $38.36, weighs 14.3lbs, and part
>number P231-ND @ $44.68, weighs 14.6lbs) In my simple mind, wouldn't it be
>wise to get the 20AH battery that is the same size, almost no weight
>difference, and only 6 bucks more. Just to refresh your memory, I am using
>a Mazda rotary engine that is electrically dependant, and will have dual
>bat/dual alt.
>
> Am I missing something? Seems to me to be an obvious choice.
I agree. See data sheets on Panasonic batteries at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Batteries
Note the 1220 offers not only a higher capacity but
a lower internal resistance as well. The 20 a.h.
device seems a prudent choice.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Small "Forest of Tabs" |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rv-9a-online <rv-9a-online@telus.net>
Guy, I'm working on a simple solution to this problem. I initially used
a 'forest of tabs' using 0.110" fast-ons for my SPA-400 installation.
Without hesitation, I'd say that the audio wiring in my aircraft was the
most difficult subsystem because of all of the stiff shielded cables and
ground home-runs.
My new solution would save space and aggravation by using a small
circuit board and D-sub connectors. All of the audio cables would then
terminate on D-Sub machined crimp pins (available from SteinAir or B&C)
and plug into a D-Sub connector. Its a lot easier dealing with these
pins than using a forest of fast ons.
If you are still interested, let me know. The design should be finished
in about a week, and I'm seeking feedback.
Vern Little, RV-9A
Guy Buchanan wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
>All,
> I'd like to consolidate about 8-10 grounds on my panel before
>sending them off to my main ground bus. (The SPA-400 intercom wants all
>headphone, mic, and switch grounds brought back to one point. It's easier
>to do so at the intercom than run them all to the main bus.) I remember
>seeing screwed down fans of tabs in stereo components. Does anyone know
>what they're called, or where I might get them?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Guy Buchanan
>K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
>
>
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: APU vs Battery |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Cochran" <mac@atac.com>
That reminds me... we actually did flip one of those AF diesel GPUs over
when the inflight technician on our Navy EC-130 was trouble shooting our
200KW VLF transmitter (yes: 200KW + 30K foot antenna). He was cycling the
power on and off into the dummy load at just the wrong speed. I was outside
pre-flighting... started a nice little fire on the ramp!
Mark Cochran
mac@atac.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Leo
Corbalis
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: APU vs Battery
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis"
<leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Oke" <wjoke@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: APU vs Battery
Just for fun. When I was flying B-47 (the origional stealth bomber cause
nobody ever heard of it) on starting a engine with a siezed turbine wheel,
the GPU almost flipped over on the crewchief when the locked starter motor
acted like a dead short circuit.
Leo Corbalis
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: DigiKey Batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hans Teijgeler" <hans@jodel.com>
FWIW, I've got a pair of the 17 Ah Panasonic batteries on my EJ-25 powered
Jodel. Each of them easily cranks the engine. And cranks. And cranks. And
cranks.
Needless to say that I am happy with them.
A friend of mine stocks these (plus a lot of other stuff). Unfortunately, he
doesn't have the 20 Ah version, hence my choise for the 17 Ah. (In fact, I
didn't know the 20 Ah existed until 5 minutes ago.)
Hans
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: DigiKey Batteries
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 05:28 AM 3/7/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ben Schneider
<plumberben@yahoo.com>
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> > As per one of our discussions at the Wicks seminar this past weekend
> >(which I thoroughly enjoyed by the way), I find that Digikey lists two
> >Panasonic batteries that are the same size physically, but one is a 17AH
> >12V battery, and the other a 20AH 12v battery, both have "nut/bolt"
> >terminals on them. (part number P174-ND @ $38.36, weighs 14.3lbs, and
part
> >number P231-ND @ $44.68, weighs 14.6lbs) In my simple mind, wouldn't it
be
> >wise to get the 20AH battery that is the same size, almost no weight
> >difference, and only 6 bucks more. Just to refresh your memory, I am
using
> >a Mazda rotary engine that is electrically dependant, and will have dual
> >bat/dual alt.
> >
> > Am I missing something? Seems to me to be an obvious choice.
>
> I agree. See data sheets on Panasonic batteries at:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Batteries
>
> Note the 1220 offers not only a higher capacity but
> a lower internal resistance as well. The 20 a.h.
> device seems a prudent choice.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Avionics Grounds (was: Small "Forest of Tabs") |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:15 PM 3/6/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
>All,
> I'd like to consolidate about 8-10 grounds on my panel before
>sending them off to my main ground bus. (The SPA-400 intercom wants all
>headphone, mic, and switch grounds brought back to one point. It's easier
>to do so at the intercom than run them all to the main bus.) I remember
>seeing screwed down fans of tabs in stereo components. Does anyone know
>what they're called, or where I might get them?
Light grounding tasks can be managed in a very compact
and convenient form using D-sub connectors. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Grounding/9031-100-1_Avionics_Ground.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Grounding/9031-100-1_Avionics_Ground_2.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Grounding/DIY15_AvxGround_1.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Grounding/DIY15_AvxGround_2.jpg
This technique allows one to fabricate a very compact,
easily built and user friendly ground bus for the light
loads (avionics, audio and instrumentation) on the panel.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | alternator as load |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong@xs4all.nl>
What kind of load does an alternator represent when there is no field
current (switched off)?
Would like to know.
Jan de Jong
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: alternator as load |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:06 PM 3/7/2005 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong@xs4all.nl>
>
>What kind of load does an alternator represent when there is no field
>current (switched off)?
>Would like to know.
>Jan de Jong
leakage through the diode array only . . . nanoamperes perhaps?
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Adding an AUX Battery to Z-13 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Lineberry" <glineberry@earthlink.net>
Bob:
I am designing my RV-8 electrical system around Z-13 and will have a 60A
main alternator and an SD-8 aux alternator. But since I have dual
electronic ignitions I am adding a 9 AHr aux battery as a "peace of mind"
factor, to supply the second ignition system. I know you would probably
recommend a second battery of the same capacity as the first, but weight and
space considerations have led me in this direction. In my original design I
simply paralleled the second battery with the main 17 AHr battery bus
through a Schottky diode and then fed the aux battery bus from that
connection. As such, I had no way to isolate the aux battery from the main
battery or the rest of the system. In a second design I fed the aux battery
bus, through a Schottky diode from the main battery bus. Then I fed the aux
battery into the aux battery bus through one of the fused tabs. By adding a
switch or perhaps one of Eric Jones' solid state relays in that feed line, I
would have the ability to isolate the aux battery for purposes of checking
individual battery voltages, or if there were some kind of misbehavior
between it and the main battery. On the other hand, this adds another
switch and/or relay and additional potential points of failure. Considering
that the whole purpose of having this battery is to provide a reasonably
fail-safe source of power for one of the electronic ignitions, would I
better off to leave the original design in place or is the ability to
isolate the aux battery essential?
Wow, it is tough to try to put a diagram into words...hope this is somewhat
clearer than the often referenced "mud".
Thanks for your thoughts and for all the great advice you provide in this
forum.
Gary Lineberry
RV-8 QB N48GG reserved
Valencia, CA
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: alternator as load |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Mechanical or electrical load?
Regards,
Matt-
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jan de Jong
> <jan.de.jong@xs4all.nl>
>
> What kind of load does an alternator represent when there is no field
> current (switched off)?
> Would like to know.
> Jan de Jong
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Z13 and SS contactor? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong@xs4all.nl>
Might Z13 offer a safe opportunity to replace the battery contactor with
a solid state device as supplied selectively by Perihelion Design? Z13
has bypasses for the battery contactor on both the supply side (spare
alternator) and the consumer side (alternate feed).
Weight advantage of 11 ounces would offset a little of the extra
alternator weight.
BTW, if it failed it would be on the ground during or right after
starting but one wants to know what would happen if it did in flight.
If it failed open:
- what would happen to alternator output?
- any load dump danger?
- how would one notice/diagnose?
- alternate feed and alternate alternator for endurance operation
- main off
This could happen to a regular contactor too.
If it failed closed:
- normally one wouldn't notice until on the ground
- would preclude pure endurance operation: main off has no effect
This would probably not happen to a regular contactor.
Comments?
Jan de Jong
Message 17
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 3/7/2005 3:16:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
aerobubba@earthlink.net writes:
I asked the docent what that was
about, and he told me that it was the pull start handle for the small
reciprocating engine that spun the jet engine up for starting.
More "Do Not Archive" material!
All of the old Caterpillar diesel tractors had a small hand cranked gasoline
"pony" engine that was used to get the big diesel turning over and up to
temperature so it could start. Took a few minutes, but worked great.
What goes around, comes around.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Adding an AUX Battery to Z-13 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:34 PM 3/7/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Lineberry"
><glineberry@earthlink.net>
>
>Bob:
>
>
>I am designing my RV-8 electrical system around Z-13 and will have a 60A
>main alternator and an SD-8 aux alternator. But since I have dual
>electronic ignitions I am adding a 9 AHr aux battery as a "peace of mind"
>factor, to supply the second ignition system. I know you would probably
>recommend a second battery of the same capacity as the first, but weight and
>space considerations have led me in this direction. In my original design I
>simply paralleled the second battery with the main 17 AHr battery bus
>through a Schottky diode and then fed the aux battery bus from that
>connection.
Why not add the second battery per Z-30? Make the second battery any
type you like . . . just don't use small batteries to help start
the engine.
> As such, I had no way to isolate the aux battery from the main
>battery or the rest of the system. In a second design I fed the aux battery
>bus, through a Schottky diode from the main battery bus. Then I fed the aux
>battery into the aux battery bus through one of the fused tabs. By adding a
>switch or perhaps one of Eric Jones' solid state relays in that feed line, I
>would have the ability to isolate the aux battery for purposes of checking
>individual battery voltages, or if there were some kind of misbehavior
>between it and the main battery. On the other hand, this adds another
>switch and/or relay and additional potential points of failure. Considering
>that the whole purpose of having this battery is to provide a reasonably
>fail-safe source of power for one of the electronic ignitions, would I
>better off to leave the original design in place or is the ability to
>isolate the aux battery essential?
First, have you purchased your ignition systems? Have you considered
the p-mags? A single battery Z-13 system teamed with p-mags is about
as bullet-proof as one can get. If it were my airplane, this is the
way I'd go in a heartbeat.
I think your agonizing over this too much. With RG batteries and
modern alternators, you ALREADY have 5x-10x the system reliability
of a spamcan. A simple aux battery relay teamed with ACTIVE notification
of low voltage and perhaps automatic Aux battery management is
pretty simple.
A voltmeter that can be switched between e-bus, main bus, main battery
bus and aux bus makes it easy to scan the system for open relays/contactors.
>Wow, it is tough to try to put a diagram into words...hope this is somewhat
>clearer than the often referenced "mud".
>
>
>Thanks for your thoughts and for all the great advice you provide in this
>forum.
My pleasure sir. Couldn't do it if it wasn't so much fun.
Bob . . .
Message 19
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| Subject: | 21st century power systems. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
I have accepted a contract to design an electrical system for a new
experimental aircraft engine. A 21st century engine needs a 21st century
electrical system.
The engine and matching propeller has been developed over a period of more
than 10 years and has been extensively tested. It's a truly 21st century
engine that deserves a 21st century electrical system.
The engine is essentially the same size and weight and is a drop in
replacement for an O-360 rated at 180 hp. It is 220 hp however and includes
a very efficient muffler for sound reduction. The fuel flow is at least 20%
lower than the O-360 in normal cruise power % settings.
Power is a single control in the HP power range of approx 35% to 100%. Only
in the final stages of preps for landing is the throttle used as otherwise
its set at full power from the start of takeoff roll to landing pattern
entry. The single "Lever" (usually a switch on the stick) controls the power
and the mixture, etc. is computer controlled at any altitude. So the pilot
work load is simply to set cruise speed/power and forget it. There is no
mixture control. Different to be sure, but having flown the system it's
really very simple to use.
The engine electronics system is active redundant for fuel and spark etc.
and multiple failures can occur with no pilot required action to correct
(other than a warning light). If the failure is total on one or two of the 4
cylinders, the HP is reduced but with any two cylinders the engine produces
sufficient power for continued level flight to an airport. Total failure of
the cooling system coolant can also be tolerated with continued flight to a
safe airport.
The engine is derived from an auto engine, and in that configuration, been
factory tested for long durations at over 500 hp in racing trim and no lower
end failures so common with the LYC engines. There are extensive design
changes so it's truly an experimental aircraft engine and it's not
appropriate to consider it a converted auto engine. The engine can burn all
grades of auto fuel and aviation fuel with no modifications or adjustments
of any kind. The engine and prop meet all the FAA requirements for
certification and certification is being considered in the future.
The 21st century electrical system I have planned is totally solid state
using proven parts from the automotive market. For those not familiar with
the automotive requirements they are much harder to meet than the famous
DO-160 often used as the standard for aircraft usage (and then DO-160 is
only a recommendation). In the automotive market it's not optional as the
component manufacturer must meet ALL the requirements to be qualified. Fully
automatic fault tolerant with no required pilot action is a design feature.
There are no mechanical relays, contactors, fuses, fusible links or circuit
breakers needed. The solid state component switches can provide device load
current to a central computer (optional) and can detect "out of
specification" current on that circuit. These solid state switches include
an over current circuit breaker function that is settable to the required
load current as well as the ability to allow for the current inrush of
lamps. Over and under voltage protection as well as over temperature
protection is included. The primary engine alternator provides the necessary
electrical systems power at engine idle with power also available to charge
the batteries. An optional second alternator can be added if desired. Dual
batteries are used for backup but the system can run with both batteries off
line as well.
The final required function is a true real time display of the power
remaining in the batteries in the unlikely event of an alternator failure. A
dynamic display of the power remaining that adjusts for changing loads and
uses the history of prior loads for correct reading is provided. The pilot
has a real time display of the battery power remaining (in minutes), based
on the current and past electrical load history. Change the load and the
display corrects for the new conditions.
In conclusion, the pilot work load is reduced to use of a single lever for
in-flight power and the electrical system informs the pilot of what is
happening, and in the event of alternator failure provides the flight time
remaining based on battery remaining charge.
The new solid state design is lower cost, simpler, more reliable, and
lighter in weight. With the optional second alternator there is no reduction
of flight time as a result of battery power limitations.
No magic, just a simple application of what is available from the automotive
world where components must meet much higher standards than aircraft even
those that meet DO-160.
My background is from the spacecraft world where there is no human to take
action in the event of a failure (ground or in orbit) and so should be the
power systems of the 21st century general aviation aircraft.
My accomplishments and background qualifications are many pages long but one
that stands out (to me) is being personally congratulated by the President
of the USA at the White House for scientific achievement.
Paul Messinger
Aeronautical and Electronic engineer
Commercial, Instrument, SEL, SES, MEL, CFI
EAA Flight Advisor and Technical Counselor
Designer of 21st century electrical systems
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: alternator as load |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong@xs4all.nl>
>
>
>> What kind of load does an alternator represent when there is no field
>> current (switched off)?
>
>Mechanical or electrical load?
>
I meant electrical load. Diode reverse leakage only Bob says.
Without current, mechanical load would be minimal no?
Jan de Jong
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: 21st century power systems. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley <harley@agelesswings.com>
Evening, Paul...
Auto engine?
Coolant?
4 "cylinders" that take any fuel? Two go and it still flies?
Needs a "very efficient muffler" ?
Sounds like a rotary to me...trying to throw us off with the
"cylinders" description? <VBG>
Wouldn't be a new version of the Mistral series would it?
Harley Dixon
Paul Messinger wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
>
>I have accepted a contract to design an electrical system for a new
>experimental aircraft engine. A 21st century engine needs a 21st century
>electrical system.
>
>The engine and matching propeller has been developed over a period of more
>than 10 years and has been extensively tested. It's a truly 21st century
>engine that deserves a 21st century electrical system.
>
>...snip... and includes a very efficient muffler for sound reduction. The fuel
flow is at least 20%
>lower than the O-360 in normal cruise power % settings.
>
>
>...snip... If the failure is total on one or two of the 4
>cylinders, the HP is reduced but with any two cylinders the engine produces
>sufficient power for continued level flight to an airport. Total failure of
>the cooling system coolant can also be tolerated with continued flight to a
>safe airport.
>
>
>The engine is derived from an auto engine, and in that configuration, been
>factory tested for long durations at over 500 hp in racing trim and no lower
>end failures...snip... The engine can burn all
>grades of auto fuel and aviation fuel with no modifications or adjustments
>of any kind.
>...snip...
>Paul Messinger
>
>Aeronautical and Electronic engineer
>
>Commercial, Instrument, SEL, SES, MEL, CFI
>
>EAA Flight Advisor and Technical Counselor
>
>Designer of 21st century electrical systems
>
>
>
>
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: alternator as load |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:41 PM 3/7/2005 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong@xs4all.nl>
>
> >
> >
> >> What kind of load does an alternator represent when there is no field
> >> current (switched off)?
> >
> >Mechanical or electrical load?
> >
>I meant electrical load. Diode reverse leakage only Bob says.
>Without current, mechanical load would be minimal no?
>Jan de Jong
There is friction . . . and depending on speed, perhaps
a significant amount of "windage" . . . the fans keep working
and will suck some energy from the engine.
Bob . . .
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: 21st century power systems. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Hi Harley,
The Mistral is advertising BSFC numbers in parity with Lycoming,
not 20% better. Plus the 13b based rotary would be considered
either 6 cylinders or 2 cylinders, depending on how you do the
math. There are 3 sides to each rotor.
Mistral already has an in-house highly developed engine management
effort going. I think its based on some German and French program.
It doesn't sound as sophisticated as what Paul described (though very
good).
If it's actually 4 cylinders, I would have to guess its a Subaru based
engine.
Matt-
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley
> <harley@agelesswings.com>
>
> Evening, Paul...
>
> Auto engine?
>
> Coolant?
>
> 4 "cylinders" that take any fuel? Two go and it still flies?
>
> Needs a "very efficient muffler" ?
>
> Sounds like a rotary to me...trying to throw us off with the
> "cylinders" description? <VBG>
>
> Wouldn't be a new version of the Mistral series would it?
>
> Harley Dixon
>
>
> Paul Messinger wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger"
>> <paulm@olypen.com>
>>
>>I have accepted a contract to design an electrical system for a new
>> experimental aircraft engine. A 21st century engine needs a 21st
>> century electrical system.
>>
>>The engine and matching propeller has been developed over a period of
>> more than 10 years and has been extensively tested. It's a truly 21st
>> century engine that deserves a 21st century electrical system.
>>
>>...snip... and includes a very efficient muffler for sound reduction.
>> The fuel flow is at least 20% lower than the O-360 in normal cruise
>> power % settings.
>>
>>
>>...snip... If the failure is total on one or two of the 4
>>cylinders, the HP is reduced but with any two cylinders the engine
>> produces sufficient power for continued level flight to an airport.
>> Total failure of the cooling system coolant can also be tolerated with
>> continued flight to a safe airport.
>>
>>
>>The engine is derived from an auto engine, and in that configuration,
>> been factory tested for long durations at over 500 hp in racing trim
>> and no lower end failures...snip... The engine can burn all
>>grades of auto fuel and aviation fuel with no modifications or
>> adjustments of any kind.
>>...snip...
>>Paul Messinger
>>
>>Aeronautical and Electronic engineer
>>
>>Commercial, Instrument, SEL, SES, MEL, CFI
>>
>>EAA Flight Advisor and Technical Counselor
>>
>>Designer of 21st century electrical systems
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: 21st century power systems. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
Has a very efficient muffler so no need for "head sets" in cruise etc. Does
not need it like the rotary seems to. Aircraft engines need not be noisy,
its just not a requirement in the USA. It a requirement in Europe however.
Props make 50% of total noise in the common USA LYC/CONT engines.
Its a liquid cooled flat 4 boxer type. Derived from auto engine technology
as I have said.
I will not confirm or deny any relationship with any manufacturer as that is
not relevant to the task of an all solid state "state of the art" electrical
system.
System design (or at least the major components will eventually be made
public and its likely that some or all will be available in a complete
"ready to install" configuration. After its fully flight debugged.
NUFF said,
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harley" <harley@AgelessWings.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 21st century power systems.
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley <harley@agelesswings.com>
>
> Evening, Paul...
>
> Auto engine?
>
> Coolant?
>
> 4 "cylinders" that take any fuel? Two go and it still flies?
>
> Needs a "very efficient muffler" ?
>
> Sounds like a rotary to me...trying to throw us off with the
> "cylinders" description? <VBG>
>
> Wouldn't be a new version of the Mistral series would it?
>
> Harley Dixon
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: 21st century power systems. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
I'm coming in on the middle of this thread, so if this is a repeat,
please pardon me.
That said, it looks like the UltraMegaSquirt is a *very* promising
unit. About $125 if you build it yourself. It may even include ion
sensing for ignition control.
HTH.
Paul Messinger wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
>
>Has a very efficient muffler so no need for "head sets" in cruise etc. Does
>not need it like the rotary seems to. Aircraft engines need not be noisy,
>its just not a requirement in the USA. It a requirement in Europe however.
>Props make 50% of total noise in the common USA LYC/CONT engines.
>
>Its a liquid cooled flat 4 boxer type. Derived from auto engine technology
>as I have said.
>
>I will not confirm or deny any relationship with any manufacturer as that is
>not relevant to the task of an all solid state "state of the art" electrical
>system.
>
>System design (or at least the major components will eventually be made
>public and its likely that some or all will be available in a complete
>"ready to install" configuration. After its fully flight debugged.
>
>NUFF said,
>
>Paul
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: 21st century power systems. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
I am on that list also. But not current on the ultra version. Can two
systems run the engine at the same time??
Does it support dual simultaneous ign and fuel injection and have fault
detection and switching?
The real problem with fuel injection is at reasonably hi duty cycles the two
computers are not in sync and this is a requirement if both drive the same
injector. Thus the need for lock step of dual computer systems. Its a new
(as far as I know feature for both to run in lock step for fuel) plus
automatic fault detection and correction. Spark can be slightly off and its
no problem.
This thread just started a couple of hours ago so you are at the start.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "AI Nut" <ainut@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 21st century power systems.
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
>
> I'm coming in on the middle of this thread, so if this is a repeat,
> please pardon me.
> That said, it looks like the UltraMegaSquirt is a *very* promising
> unit. About $125 if you build it yourself. It may even include ion
> sensing for ignition control.
>
> HTH.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: alternator as load |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong@xs4all.nl>
> **
>
>leakage through the diode array only . . . nanoamperes perhaps?
>
> **
Sorry Bob, should have looked in the book first - Chapter 3, alternator,
3 phases, 6 diodes...
Jan de Jong
Message 28
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| Subject: | Clinic in St. Louis and P-Mag call ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
Bob, the clinic this weekend was entertaining as well as enlightening. I
took away two quotes. Bus failures = snipes :o) that was one. The other
had to do with P-Mags by EMag. As I remember it (and there were
witnesses ) you said with some enthusiasm, "I gotta call these guys and
talk to them, looks like the real deal" or something to that effect.
http://www.emagair.com/P-MAG.htmOne
I waited until Bart at Aerosport had a chance to try one and he blessed it
so I ordered one(1) on the engine he is building for me. If you would talk
to these guys and give them a double blessing, I would think really hard
about replacing the other mag as well. I think there are a LOTS of folks
who would be really interested in your comments after that call.
Again great clinic.
Thanks Bill Schlatterer
7a Arkansas
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: 21st century power systems. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
I suppose one could have two systems; I assume you want this for
redundancy safety? However, I would not run them both simultaneously.
The backup unit could constantly monitor the health of the primary and
switch control to itself should a fault be detected. I would guess that
failover could be handled in milliseconds or less than time for a single
piston misfire.
Dual systems are not currently standard, but one could drop a bug on the
development board and get it started. If not, you're free to do it
yourself as all schematics and source code are open source.
The Ultra unit has not finished alpha design so it's not reality yet,
<sigh>. It seems we've been waiting for it *forever.* 8-) Some
versions of the MegaSquirt II will do ignition and fuel, but I don't
think they have provisions for wideband O2 sensors, nor do they have
provisions for ion sensing.
HTH.
David
Paul Messinger wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
>
>I am on that list also. But not current on the ultra version. Can two
>systems run the engine at the same time??
>
>Does it support dual simultaneous ign and fuel injection and have fault
>detection and switching?
>
>The real problem with fuel injection is at reasonably hi duty cycles the two
>computers are not in sync and this is a requirement if both drive the same
>injector. Thus the need for lock step of dual computer systems. Its a new
>(as far as I know feature for both to run in lock step for fuel) plus
>automatic fault detection and correction. Spark can be slightly off and its
>no problem.
>
>This thread just started a couple of hours ago so you are at the start.
>
>Paul
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "AI Nut" <ainut@hiwaay.net>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 21st century power systems.
>
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
>>
>>I'm coming in on the middle of this thread, so if this is a repeat,
>>please pardon me.
>>That said, it looks like the UltraMegaSquirt is a *very* promising
>>unit. About $125 if you build it yourself. It may even include ion
>>sensing for ignition control.
>>
>>HTH.
>>
>>
>
>
>.
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: 21st century power systems. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
Paul,
I bow to you, sir!
Until I got to the part about the electrical, it sounded as though you were
talking NSI's spiel about their engine (I largely agree with it, but the proof
will be in the pudding, as they say).
Any time frame for this electrical gee-whizzy you propose? It sounds great
and I would be a candidate to mate it to my NSI Soob. It's nice to dream, but
for it to be anything but, some hard core materialist black box that does what
you say is needed.
With regards, I bow out, sir!
Doug Windhorn
In a message dated 07-Mar-05 14:30:31 Pacific Standard Time, paulm@olypen.com
writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
I have accepted a contract to design an electrical system for a new
experimental aircraft engine. A 21st century engine needs a 21st century
electrical system.
The engine and matching propeller has been developed over a period of more
than 10 years and has been extensively tested. It's a truly 21st century
engine that deserves a 21st century electrical system.
The engine is essentially the same size and weight and is a drop in
replacement for an O-360 rated at 180 hp. It is 220 hp however and includes
a very efficient muffler for sound reduction. The fuel flow is at least 20%
lower than the O-360 in normal cruise power % settings.
Power is a single control in the HP power range of approx 35% to 100%. Only
in the final stages of preps for landing is the throttle used as otherwise
its set at full power from the start of takeoff roll to landing pattern
entry. The single "Lever" (usually a switch on the stick) controls the power
and the mixture, etc. is computer controlled at any altitude. So the pilot
work load is simply to set cruise speed/power and forget it. There is no
mixture control. Different to be sure, but having flown the system it's
really very simple to use.
The engine electronics system is active redundant for fuel and spark etc.
and multiple failures can occur with no pilot required action to correct
(other than a warning light). If the failure is total on one or two of the 4
cylinders, the HP is reduced but with any two cylinders the engine produces
sufficient power for continued level flight to an airport. Total failure of
the cooling system coolant can also be tolerated with continued flight to a
safe airport.
The engine is derived from an auto engine, and in that configuration, been
factory tested for long durations at over 500 hp in racing trim and no lower
end failures so common with the LYC engines. There are extensive design
changes so it's truly an experimental aircraft engine and it's not
appropriate to consider it a converted auto engine. The engine can burn all
grades of auto fuel and aviation fuel with no modifications or adjustments
of any kind. The engine and prop meet all the FAA requirements for
certification and certification is being considered in the future.
The 21st century electrical system I have planned is totally solid state
using proven parts from the automotive market. For those not familiar with
the automotive requirements they are much harder to meet than the famous
DO-160 often used as the standard for aircraft usage (and then DO-160 is
only a recommendation). In the automotive market it's not optional as the
component manufacturer must meet ALL the requirements to be qualified. Fully
automatic fault tolerant with no required pilot action is a design feature.
There are no mechanical relays, contactors, fuses, fusible links or circuit
breakers needed. The solid state component switches can provide device load
current to a central computer (optional) and can detect "out of
specification" current on that circuit. These solid state switches include
an over current circuit breaker function that is settable to the required
load current as well as the ability to allow for the current inrush of
lamps. Over and under voltage protection as well as over temperature
protection is included. The primary engine alternator provides the necessary
electrical systems power at engine idle with power also available to charge
the batteries. An optional second alternator can be added if desired. Dual
batteries are used for backup but the system can run with both batteries off
line as well.
The final required function is a true real time display of the power
remaining in the batteries in the unlikely event of an alternator failure. A
dynamic display of the power remaining that adjusts for changing loads and
uses the history of prior loads for correct reading is provided. The pilot
has a real time display of the battery power remaining (in minutes), based
on the current and past electrical load history. Change the load and the
display corrects for the new conditions.
In conclusion, the pilot work load is reduced to use of a single lever for
in-flight power and the electrical system informs the pilot of what is
happening, and in the event of alternator failure provides the flight time
remaining based on battery remaining charge.
The new solid state design is lower cost, simpler, more reliable, and
lighter in weight. With the optional second alternator there is no reduction
of flight time as a result of battery power limitations.
No magic, just a simple application of what is available from the automotive
world where components must meet much higher standards than aircraft even
those that meet DO-160.
My background is from the spacecraft world where there is no human to take
action in the event of a failure (ground or in orbit) and so should be the
power systems of the 21st century general aviation aircraft.
My accomplishments and background qualifications are many pages long but one
that stands out (to me) is being personally congratulated by the President
of the USA at the White House for scientific achievement.
Paul Messinger
Aeronautical and Electronic engineer
Commercial, Instrument, SEL, SES, MEL, CFI
EAA Flight Advisor and Technical Counselor
Designer of 21st century electrical systems
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Interior lighting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
Harley,
This lights I had in mind can be found at:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SiteSearch
but when clicking on the item, the page is no longer active. Their prices
were also at least double what I had remembered (could be the impact of the
falling dollar since I bought mine perhaps 3 years ago.
These are the ones I had in mind:
http://www.hella.com/produktion/HellaPortal/WebSite/Internet_usa/ProductsServi
ces/Marine/LED_Lamps/LED_Stair/LED_Stair.jsp
Check out some of the other Hella LED light. You'll have to see where you
might find them though if West Marine no longer distributes (at their prices, I
can understand a low demand).
Regards, Doug
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Clinic in St. Louis and P-Mag call ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rv-9a-online <rv-9a-online@telus.net>
I contacted Emagair and asked for a status report on my mags (going into
an Aerosport O-320). Here is the reply I got on Sunday:
Vern Little
E-MAG Customers:
We are mindful of the current delay in ignition deliveries, and truly regret
any inconvenience. We hope you understand that refinements are made to the
design as we approach each production run. This is when we integrate a)
changes based on customer feedback, and b) changes that will improve the
product's manufacturability. In the current run, we are also installing
several pieces of new production equipment that will significantly improve
assembly speed and accuracy. These are all healthy "growing pains"
associated with launching a new product. Unfortunately, they also insert a
degree of uncertainty in our fabrication schedule. Please understand, we
are as eager to ship as you are to receive the ignitions. We collect only a
small deposit when taking orders. From a business standpoint we are well
motivated to complete the transaction. Even so, everyone agrees it's more
important to get the products right than to get them quick.
Listed below are some of the more visible refinements we are implementing in
the current series (designated E-112 and P-112). We will revise all
current orders to reflect this change in designation.
1. Overall ignition frame length will be 6.15". This is 1/3" longer than the
111 series. Previously, the nose and main case sections were threaded
together (with Locktite) which made servicing the ignitions difficult, and
in some cases impossible. It also made the orientation between these
sections hard to control. In the 112 series, they will be secured
internally with 6 bolts, which necessitates the small case extension. As
before, installations with firewall clearance issues (primarily canards)
have the option of detaching the coil from the ignition, and mounting it on
the firewall. In this configuration, the ignition is only 3" deep.
2. The Mode Switch has been moved from the connector head to a DIP switch
accessible by removing a threaded plug on the side of the ignition case.
This will facilitate more efficient manufacturing, and will better protect
the switch. The 111 series mode switch was occasionally getting damaged by
customers when the screw driver used to secure the connector scraped across
the face of the switch.
3. The aircraft harness is now offered as standard 5/8"-24 aircraft spark
plug connectors (cigarette and spring) that are pre-installed on the ends of
our auto lead kit. This has several advantages.
a. It eliminates the need (and expense) of Aircraft Coil Adapters ($45.00)
per ignition. (This charge will be deleted from affected orders.)
b. It permits the use of our low profile 90 degree connections on the coil
end. This reduces the overall length of the aircraft ignition/harness by
1.25". The length of the earlier aircraft harness was preventing some
builders who wanted to use aircraft plugs from doing so.
c. It permits greater flexibility as leads can be routed and trimmed to
length according to individual preferences. Spark plug terminals and boots
are field installed. A terminal crimping tool is included with the kit at
no extra charge. Note: Auto leads use noise suppressive wire in lieu of a
grounded shield. We've had no reports of noise problems from customers
using the auto harness. Even so, builders have the option, if needed, of
adding a shield over the leads and ground them at the spark plug connector.
4. The DIP switch referenced in 2 above will also let customers set the tack
output for either one or two pulses per revolution. Customers will no
longer need to research this item and report back so we can program an
appropriate setup. Also, if the tack is later changed to a different
style, any needed changes can be made on the spot.
5. Unlike the 111 series, the tack lead will have a pull up resistor built
into the unit. It will produce a 12 volt tack pulse. Instruments that need
a 5 volt signal will be able to reduce the voltage by adding an external
diode (not provided).
6. The DIP switch will also let customers set the baseline timing for 20 or
25 degrees at installation. This will eliminates the need for customers to
investigate and report back when ordering their ignition.
7. The mounting flange has been sized so existing magneto mounting clips can
be reused. The 111 series flange was slightly undersized which required us
to provide custom fitted clips. If you do not have mounting clips to reuse,
just let us know and we will add a set(s) to your order ($15/set).
As always, our goal is to improve the ease of installation and performance
of your ignition. We appreciate your patience and understanding. Please
do not hesitate to call if you have any questions.
At this point, we are hoping to make our next deliveries in about 5 weeks.
Kindest Regards,
Brad Dement
E-MAG Ignitions
649 Boling Ranch Road
Azle, TX 76020
(817)448-0555
Bill Schlatterer wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
>
>Bob, the clinic this weekend was entertaining as well as enlightening. I
>took away two quotes. Bus failures = snipes :o) that was one. The other
>had to do with P-Mags by EMag. As I remember it (and there were
>witnesses ) you said with some enthusiasm, "I gotta call these guys and
>talk to them, looks like the real deal" or something to that effect.
>
> http://www.emagair.com/P-MAG.htmOne
>
>I waited until Bart at Aerosport had a chance to try one and he blessed it
>so I ordered one(1) on the engine he is building for me. If you would talk
>to these guys and give them a double blessing, I would think really hard
>about replacing the other mag as well. I think there are a LOTS of folks
>who would be really interested in your comments after that call.
>
>
>Again great clinic.
>
>Thanks Bill Schlatterer
>7a Arkansas
>
>
>
>
--
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Message 33
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| Subject: | Batteries - Off topic |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" <jsto1@tampabay.rr.com>
D&D Battery in Largo FL rebuilds battery packs. www.4batteries.com
727-535-1044
Jim Stone
Jabiru J450 / N450SJ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
McAllister
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Batteries - Off topic
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister"
--> <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi all,
This is a bit off topic but I was wondering if someone could point me in
the right direction. I have a Makita 14.4v drill and its 2.2 ah batter
has died. I went to the hardware store to get another one only to find
that they were 80.00, which is half the cost of a new drill with 2
batteries.
Does anyone know of a third party supplier, or a supplier that opens up
the old battery packs and replaces the cells.
Thanks, Paul
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Question about dimmer circuits and annunicators... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 03/04/2005 9:25:37 PM Central Standard Time,
mdella@cstone.com writes:
Absolutely! I'm AutoCAD LT 2005 myself...
>>>>
Oooops! Apologies for taking so long to get backatcha- still learning how
AOL folds/spindles/mutilates e-mail to both of my computers! Here are the
files, let me know if you see any errors or have any ?s.
Mark
Message 35
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| Subject: | Question about dimmer circuits and annunicators... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Marcos Della" <mdella@cstone.com>
Hm, didn't get any files...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Fiveonepw@aol.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question about dimmer circuits and
annunicators...
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 03/04/2005 9:25:37 PM Central Standard Time,
mdella@cstone.com writes:
Absolutely! I'm AutoCAD LT 2005 myself...
>>>>
Oooops! Apologies for taking so long to get backatcha- still learning
how
AOL folds/spindles/mutilates e-mail to both of my computers! Here are
the
files, let me know if you see any errors or have any ?s.
Mark
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: 21st century power systems. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
Full production in 3rd Q of 2005 is reasonable for all but the "Battery Fuel
Gauge" that does require some proof of concept testing etc.. But then I am
only responsible for the prototypes not production etc. Full flight testing
before July 2005 at the latest.
The hardest part is to decide which device to use where as there are several
parts available that are good for each application from a 1 amp switch to
the 300 amp main switch. And everything between.
Its really not that hard, as I have said, everything is currently in full
production and parts are on distributors shelves, some for 10 years.
It will work on most any electrical system with 1-2 batteries and 1-2
alternators where the builder wants to go modern and save money, weight,
complexity and increase reliability.
Just use of solid state fully protected switches (SSS) replaces a Fuse of CB
and a relay for much lower cost and 10 SSS's will fit where one relay was
with room left over.
I am a firm believer in modules that can be adapted with wiring to most any
design needs. The design will be available to the public when its finally
proven to my satisfaction that it works as intended. The one hold back is
the Battery Fuel Gauge as that may be sold only as a completed system TBD.
Its the only truly new component but its the key in my opinion to a truly
safe "battery only" mode of flight.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: <N1deltawhiskey@aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 21st century power systems.
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
>
> Paul,
>
> I bow to you, sir!
>
> Until I got to the part about the electrical, it sounded as though you
> were
> talking NSI's spiel about their engine (I largely agree with it, but the
> proof
> will be in the pudding, as they say).
>
> Any time frame for this electrical gee-whizzy you propose? It sounds
> great
> and I would be a candidate to mate it to my NSI Soob. It's nice to dream,
> but
> for it to be anything but, some hard core materialist black box that does
> what
> you say is needed.
>
> With regards, I bow out, sir!
>
> Doug Windhorn
>
>>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Small "Forest of Tabs" |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 10:21 AM 3/7/2005 -0800, rv-9a-online wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rv-9a-online <rv-9a-online@telus.net>
>
>Guy, I'm working on a simple solution to this problem. I initially used
>a 'forest of tabs' using 0.110" fast-ons for my SPA-400 installation.
>
...
>If you are still interested, let me know. The design should be finished
>in about a week, and I'm seeking feedback.
>
>Vern Little, RV-9A
Vern,
I'm certainly interested. The forest of tabs will be unsightly no
matter what. It's OK for a ground bus, but as you say, it becomes a bit of
a mess in the audio system.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 38
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| Subject: | Small "Forest of Tabs" |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 12:16 AM 3/7/2005 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>
>They're called numerous things, such as "ground tabs", "terminal strips",
>etc.., but you can get them from me for a buck each with 10 tabs on them at
>http://www.steinair.com and click on "accessories". Sorry for the shamelss
>plug....
>
>Cheers,
>Stein.
No problem. You and your site served me well.
Thank you,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
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