Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:40 AM - Re: off-topic - leather seat covers (rd2@evenlink.com)
2. 04:15 AM - Re: off-topic - leather seat covers (Neil K Clayton)
3. 05:17 AM - Re: Battery hard failures (Chuck Jensen)
4. 05:56 AM - Re: Battery hard failures (Earl_Schroeder)
5. 06:39 AM - Re: Noise in the headset. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 07:11 AM - Re: Battery hard failures (LarryRobertHelming)
7. 07:41 AM - Re: Battery hard failures (Jerry Grimmonpre)
8. 08:19 AM - Re: Battery hard failures (Dick Fisher)
9. 08:41 AM - Re: off-topic - leather seat covers (erie)
10. 08:43 AM - Fly-Ins (WRBYARS@aol.com)
11. 09:03 AM - Voltage regulator (paul atkinson)
12. 09:04 AM - Re: off-topic - leather seat covers (Charlie England)
13. 11:32 AM - Re: Noise in the headset. (Steve Sampson)
14. 11:56 AM - Re: Noise in the headset. (Matt Prather)
15. 01:19 PM - Re: [subaruaircraft] Re: CV Report on Ind Mod Failure (B Tomm)
16. 02:26 PM - Load Dump Testing Synopsis (Paul Messinger)
17. 06:13 PM - Re: Re: Interior lighting (John Schroeder)
18. 06:49 PM - Re: Re: Interior lighting (Stein Bruch)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: off-topic - leather seat covers |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
Hi Charlie,
Yes, please email me the source for the hides when you dig it up, I
appreciate it. Directly, if you want, so Matt doesn't beat me up for
burdening the list.
Rumen
do not archive
_____________________Original message __________________________
(received from Charlie England; Date: 02:21 PM 03/10/05
-0600)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England
<ceengland@bellsouth.net>
You can buy hides with the FAA stamp of approval. A friend just had a
local upholstery shop sew an interior for his C-182 using 'approved'
hides. They just used the old upholstery as patterns.
If you want, I'll get the source for the hides for you.
Charlie
rd2@evenlink.com wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
>
>Thanks George. I just gave Abby a call, very nice lady. Unfortunately we
>couldn't do business because she needs the plane (she is in WI and I am in
>PA). She referred me to Airtex (they are nearby), but I am not aware that
>they do leather - will check that out now.
>
>cgalley (sorry, couldn't find no name), thanks for the input, if so, this
>would be very nice, I'll verify it with local FSDO.
>
>Rumen
>
>do not archive
>
>_____________________Original message __________________________
> (received from cgalley; Date: 12:24 PM 03/09/05 -0600)
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
>I think leather automatically meets FAA Fire regs.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "George Neal E Capt AU/CCP" <Neal.George@maxwell.af.mil>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: off-topic - leather seat covers
>
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/CCP
>><Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
>>
>>If you have the old covers, send them to Abby Erdman
>>http://my.execpc.com/~erdmannb/contact.htm
>>.
>>
>>73... Neal
>>
>>Do Not Archive
>>
>>
>>Hi all,
>>Does anyone know a good source for mail order cessna 172 leather seat
>>covers, color selection, reasonably priced, with FAA fire approval?
>>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: off-topic - leather seat covers |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Neil K Clayton <harvey4@earthlink.net>
Me to please Charlie.
Neil C
At 04:36 AM 3/11/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
>
>Hi Charlie,
>Yes, please email me the source for the hides when you dig it up, I
>appreciate it. Directly, if you want, so Matt doesn't beat me up for
>burdening the list.
>Rumen
>
>do not archive
>
>_____________________Original message __________________________
> (received from Charlie England; Date: 02:21 PM 03/10/05
>-0600)
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England
><ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>
>You can buy hides with the FAA stamp of approval. A friend just had a
>local upholstery shop sew an interior for his C-182 using 'approved'
>hides. They just used the old upholstery as patterns.
>If you want, I'll get the source for the hides for you.
>
>Charlie
>
>rd2@evenlink.com wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
> >
> >Thanks George. I just gave Abby a call, very nice lady. Unfortunately we
> >couldn't do business because she needs the plane (she is in WI and I am in
> >PA). She referred me to Airtex (they are nearby), but I am not aware that
> >they do leather - will check that out now.
> >
> >cgalley (sorry, couldn't find no name), thanks for the input, if so, this
> >would be very nice, I'll verify it with local FSDO.
> >
> >Rumen
> >
> >do not archive
> >
> >_____________________Original message __________________________
> > (received from cgalley; Date: 12:24 PM 03/09/05 -0600)
> >
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> >
> >I think leather automatically meets FAA Fire regs.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "George Neal E Capt AU/CCP" <Neal.George@maxwell.af.mil>
> >To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: off-topic - leather seat covers
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/CCP
> >><Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
> >>
> >>If you have the old covers, send them to Abby Erdman
> >>http://my.execpc.com/~erdmannb/contact.htm
> >>.
> >>
> >>73... Neal
> >>
> >>Do Not Archive
> >>
> >>
> >>Hi all,
> >>Does anyone know a good source for mail order cessna 172 leather seat
> >>covers, color selection, reasonably priced, with FAA fire approval?
> >>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Battery hard failures |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
Another vote for, er against, the Concord. My last one didn't even make it through
the first flight before it was tripping alternator breaker. It'd start the
engine but was drawing massive load from the alternator. As I said, that was
my last Concord.
Chuck
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Wayne
Sweet
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery hard failures
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet@comcast.net>
I would say it is more an indictment of Concord than of RG technology. I
have had two B&C RG batteries, one lasting 6 years and was still going fine.
The Concord flooded cell my experimental started service with lasted 12
months.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery hard failures
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger"
> <paulm@olypen.com>
>
> Couple of years ago we had (in the span of a year)
>
> Hard cell open internal failures in the Concord RG25. One in flight in a
> MK20 at 12 months of service and 100 hours flight time.
>
> I had one fail in 6 months on my bench waiting for install. Same failure
> mode as in an open (internal) cell.
>
> Specifically will not take charge nor deliver any current but "no load
> terminal" voltage in a ""normal range""
>
> The MK20 owner went back to flooded cell Gill as he had replaced one that
> was gong fine after 6 years based on my suggestion. The RG replacement
> cost
> (under warranty) in shipping was more than the cost of a new Gill
> delivered
> so he went with a new Gill. Now 3 years old and going fine.
>
> For those not familiar with the aircraft the battery is forward of the
> firewall.
>
> Two out of two and no one around here will buy or install a Concord given
> this experience.
>
> I am sure its rare but it sure got pilots attention around here.
>
> The MK20 had gone on a XC and after a fuel stop the battery had no
> cranking
> power. It was returned and I checked it and found an apparent internal
> open.
>
> My Concord failure was identical in symptom. Seemed ok but needed topping
> off charge and was unable to get a charging current and failed quick load
> test as no real current could be delivered.
>
> Paul
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery Jumpers
>
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>> <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>>
>
>> The only gross failures of SVLA batteries I've been privy
>> to in the OBAM aircraft market have been separation of lead
>> terminal posts from the battery because of stresses induced
>> by stiff and/or heavy connections.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Battery hard failures |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Earl_Schroeder <Earl_Schroeder@juno.com>
Hi Dick,
Thanks. I see they add $2 'handling' and then add shipping. Earl
Dick Fisher wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dick Fisher" <sonex76@velocity.net>
>
>Check out the following web site..
>https://www.batteries4everything.com/index.html
>
>Cost is $57.32 + shipping
>
>Dick Fisher
>sonex76@velocity.net
>
>
>
>
>>Please let us know where these can be purchased for 'under $60'. The
>>best price I found was $69.95 plus $7.77 UPS. Thanks, Earl
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Noise in the headset. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:12 PM 3/10/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
><SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>
>Bob - I have recently fired up my installation and have a few problems.
>Nothing major, but irritating.
>
>Its broadly Z11, with a VANS altenator, PC680 battery, Microair radio, Nova
>606 strobe pack (in the stbd wing) and Navaid servo in the port one.
>
>The problems are these:
>
>1) I can hear the strobes (primarily the bulbs firing) in the
>radio/headset. It will become irritating on long flights.
>2) The strobe makes the Navaid servo 'grumble' just slight twitches, not
>aileron roles, but with the strobe off, it goes quiescent on the ground.
>3) The radio can effect the trim indicator when I key the mike, though not
>the trim itself. Its the standard Ray Mac system used by VANS.
>
>Powering the strobes from a different battery completely cures problems 1)
>and 2), which leads me to believe the fix is to put a capacitor / inductor
>filter on the supply to the strobe. Do you agree? Can you suggest the
>components I should use? The spec indicates it draws about 5.5 amps.
>Presumably it is best to put the filter by the strobe power unit. It would
>be much easier to locate it near the fuseblock.
>
>Thoughts on item 3?
Looks like you've done your homework. Since the noise has been
show to be CONDUCTED on the 14v power line, a filter at any point
along that line would have beneficial effects. You might try
one of Radio Shack's offerings. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/RS_Noise_Filters.pdf
If you need to get "fatter" filters, you may have to resort to
assembly from discrete components.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Battery hard failures |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
I have tried using the batteries4everything website. But, what is the
method to find the concord pc680 or 625 battery at $57.32?? Thanks. Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Fisher" <sonex76@velocity.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery hard failures
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dick Fisher"
> <sonex76@velocity.net>
>
> Check out the following web site..
> https://www.batteries4everything.com/index.html
>
> Cost is $57.32 + shipping
>
> Dick Fisher
> sonex76@velocity.net
>
>
>> Please let us know where these can be purchased for 'under $60'. The
>> best price I found was $69.95 plus $7.77 UPS. Thanks, Earl
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Battery hard failures |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
Click the red banner announcing over 40,000 items, scroll down to: Odyssey,
Hawker, Cyclon, Genesis Batteries, click on ODYSSEY Enjoy the trip.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery hard failures
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
> <lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
> I have tried using the batteries4everything website. But, what is the
> method to find the concord pc680 or 625 battery at $57.32?? Thanks.
> Larry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dick Fisher" <sonex76@velocity.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery hard failures
>
>
>>
>>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dick Fisher"
>> <sonex76@velocity.net>
>>
>> Check out the following web site..
>> https://www.batteries4everything.com/index.html
>>
>> Cost is $57.32 + shipping
>>
>> Dick Fisher
>> sonex76@velocity.net
>>
>>
>>> Please let us know where these can be purchased for 'under $60'. The
>>> best price I found was $69.95 plus $7.77 UPS. Thanks, Earl
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Battery hard failures |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dick Fisher" <sonex76@velocity.net>
Larry, when you get to the main page click on "Product List"
then scroll down to motorcycle batteries. Then click on Odyssey
and you'll find their PC680 and PC625 batteries. Concord is
a whole different animal but can be found under "Aircraft Batteries"
on the product list.
Dick Fisher
sonex76@velocity.net
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
> <lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
> I have tried using the batteries4everything website. But, what is the
> method to find the concord pc680 or 625 battery at $57.32?? Thanks.
> Larry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dick Fisher" <sonex76@velocity.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery hard failures
>
>
>>
>>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dick Fisher"
>> <sonex76@velocity.net>
>>
>> Check out the following web site..
>> https://www.batteries4everything.com/index.html
>>
>> Cost is $57.32 + shipping
>>
>> Dick Fisher
>> sonex76@velocity.net
>>
>>
>>> Please let us know where these can be purchased for 'under $60'. The
>>> best price I found was $69.95 plus $7.77 UPS. Thanks, Earl
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: off-topic - leather seat covers |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: erie <erie@shelbyvilledesign.com>
Check out Friitala, largest leather supplier, ask for their clearance
list to be faxed to you, if you have some flexibility, it can save you a
fortune.
erie
Neil K Clayton wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Neil K Clayton <harvey4@earthlink.net>
>
>Me to please Charlie.
>Neil C
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: WRBYARS@aol.com
ATTENTION:
Please help all of us that don't have the ability, or knowledge, to search
ALL the various lists announcing Fly-Ins, Get Together's, and Important
Events.
If you are aware of an event, please get someone to post it on flyins.com,
so we can have a common point of search, so we don't miss an important
happening.
Thank you
Bill
Message 11
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| Subject: | Voltage regulator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "paul atkinson" <paul@theatkinsons.demon.co.uk>
Hello all
I have just taken delivery of a Rotax 912s and am rejigging my electrical
system to suit. I currently have a B&C LR3 voltage regulator, which I
assume is now redundant as the Rotax has its own rectifier/regulator, but
I would like to retain the crowbar over voltage regulation that the LR3
provides. If I were to leave the LR3 in the system will it interfere in
any way with the regulator on the engine, or would I be better off
starting again and following Bob's scheme on Z-16.
If the latter is favourite does anyone want an LR3?
Thanks in advance
Paul Atkinson
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: off-topic - leather seat covers |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Several have asked for info both on & off list, so I doubt that Matt
will mind posting this here.
http://www.aircraftleather.com/
My friend found their adv. in Trade-a-Plane, bought the hides from them
& had a local upholstery shop sew the interior. He did all the actual
installation of panels, seat coverings, etc himself & saved quite a bit
of money over a custom interior from an aircraft shop.
Obviously, you need to decide whether you & your local shop can handle
it & whether they will actually save you money.
Charlie
rd2@evenlink.com wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
>
>Hi Charlie,
>Yes, please email me the source for the hides when you dig it up, I
>appreciate it. Directly, if you want, so Matt doesn't beat me up for
>burdening the list.
>Rumen
>
>do not archive
>
>_____________________Original message __________________________
> (received from Charlie England; Date: 02:21 PM 03/10/05
>-0600)
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England
><ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>
>You can buy hides with the FAA stamp of approval. A friend just had a
>local upholstery shop sew an interior for his C-182 using 'approved'
>hides. They just used the old upholstery as patterns.
>If you want, I'll get the source for the hides for you.
>
>Charlie
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Noise in the headset. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Bob - I am getting messages that that file is corrupt, but I assume its the
filters that you have mentioned in your book. Since buying stuff from Radio
Shack is really hard here in the UK, any chance you could recceomend
standard parts that I can get at say Radio Spares or Farnell?
Also, thoughts on item 3?
Thanks, Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Noise in the headset.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:12 PM 3/10/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
><SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>
>Bob - I have recently fired up my installation and have a few problems.
>Nothing major, but irritating.
>
>Its broadly Z11, with a VANS altenator, PC680 battery, Microair radio, Nova
>606 strobe pack (in the stbd wing) and Navaid servo in the port one.
>
>The problems are these:
>
>1) I can hear the strobes (primarily the bulbs firing) in the
>radio/headset. It will become irritating on long flights.
>2) The strobe makes the Navaid servo 'grumble' just slight twitches, not
>aileron roles, but with the strobe off, it goes quiescent on the ground.
>3) The radio can effect the trim indicator when I key the mike, though not
>the trim itself. Its the standard Ray Mac system used by VANS.
>
>Powering the strobes from a different battery completely cures problems 1)
>and 2), which leads me to believe the fix is to put a capacitor / inductor
>filter on the supply to the strobe. Do you agree? Can you suggest the
>components I should use? The spec indicates it draws about 5.5 amps.
>Presumably it is best to put the filter by the strobe power unit. It would
>be much easier to locate it near the fuseblock.
>
>Thoughts on item 3?
Looks like you've done your homework. Since the noise has been
show to be CONDUCTED on the 14v power line, a filter at any point
along that line would have beneficial effects. You might try
one of Radio Shack's offerings. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/RS_Noise_Filters.pdf
If you need to get "fatter" filters, you may have to resort to
assembly from discrete components.
Bob . . .
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Noise in the headset. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
The link is to an Adobe pdf file. It works fine on my system. Does your
computer have an acrobat reader installed as a plugin for your browser?
Acroread is a free download from the adobe website. You might try 'right
clicking' on the link and saving it to your computer and then opening the
document directly.
Regards,
Matt-
do not archive
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
> <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>
> Bob - I am getting messages that that file is corrupt, but I assume its
> the filters that you have mentioned in your book. Since buying stuff
> from Radio Shack is really hard here in the UK, any chance you could
> recceomend standard parts that I can get at say Radio Spares or Farnell?
>
> Also, thoughts on item 3?
>
> Thanks, Steve.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
> L. Nuckolls, III
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Noise in the headset.
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 07:12 PM 3/10/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
>><SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>>
>>Bob - I have recently fired up my installation and have a few problems.
>> Nothing major, but irritating.
>>
>>Its broadly Z11, with a VANS altenator, PC680 battery, Microair radio,
>> Nova 606 strobe pack (in the stbd wing) and Navaid servo in the port
>> one.
>>
>>The problems are these:
>>
>>1) I can hear the strobes (primarily the bulbs firing) in the
>>radio/headset. It will become irritating on long flights.
>>2) The strobe makes the Navaid servo 'grumble' just slight twitches,
>> not aileron roles, but with the strobe off, it goes quiescent on the
>> ground. 3) The radio can effect the trim indicator when I key the mike,
>> though not the trim itself. Its the standard Ray Mac system used by
>> VANS.
>>
>>Powering the strobes from a different battery completely cures problems
>> 1) and 2), which leads me to believe the fix is to put a capacitor /
>> inductor filter on the supply to the strobe. Do you agree? Can you
>> suggest the components I should use? The spec indicates it draws about
>> 5.5 amps. Presumably it is best to put the filter by the strobe power
>> unit. It would be much easier to locate it near the fuseblock.
>>
>>Thoughts on item 3?
>
> Looks like you've done your homework. Since the noise has been
> show to be CONDUCTED on the 14v power line, a filter at any point
> along that line would have beneficial effects. You might try
> one of Radio Shack's offerings. See:
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/RS_Noise_Filters.pdf
>
> If you need to get "fatter" filters, you may have to resort to
> assembly from discrete components.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: RE: [subaruaircraft] Re: CV Report on Ind Mod Failure |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: B Tomm <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
Gary,
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I'm sure Bob would be more than happy to
adapt an electrical layout for the EGG package. That is essentially what
Z-19 is. The only major mod that I can think of is putting the batteries
aft of the baggage (RV7A H6). I have already talked to him about this but
not finalized the details yet. I'll copy this email to Bob for comment.
Bevan
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Newsted [SMTP:fcs@jlc.net]
Subject: [subaruaircraft] Re: CV Report on Ind Mod Failure
I should point out that it is CV's optional enunciator module that I
have trouble with. The EXP is fine for what it does.
When I started working on the electrical design, I was given the EXP
as a starting point. That is, take this design and make it work for
us, improve it where you can, but most importantly, make it
consistent. I feel that this has been achieved, and credit goes to
many people in this newsgroup for contributing their expertise.
The install guide presents an airworthy adaptation of the EXP for
Eggenfellner engines, and tries to make the installation clear and
simple. If you follow the guide, you will have a modern, airworthy
system which is easy to operate and easy for us to diagnose should it
ever give you trouble. I occasionally pick on people who deviate
from this design, not because the design is perfect, but because I
believe consistency is at the very root of the success of
Eggenfellner packages.
Let's face it, the thing that will bring down a Subaru will be fuel
or electrical, so these two systems must be consistent, with lots of
eyes reviewing these designs. One failure impacts all of us.
Several times we have tossed around the pros and cons
of "conventional" electrical designs, of which Aeroelectrics are a
good example. I have not pursued this, although others have. In my
eyes, conventional designs leave too many doors open which could
result in inconsistency and even dangerous installations. If some
qualified individual wanted to invest the time and energy into
perfecting and thoroughly documenting a conventional design
specifically for the Eggenfellner engines, I think Jan would support
the effort (in spirit anyway).
If you are a long ways away from wiring, don't rush into your
decision either. There just might be better things coming soon.
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/subaruaircraft/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
subaruaircraft-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Message 16
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| Subject: | Load Dump Testing Synopsis |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
I have decided to present the results at this time as the detailed report is
huge and is still in process. The complete report will be posted on my web
site later this year.
The Load Dump testing was started in April 2004 with the intent of finding
out the cause and solution(s) of a number of alternator failures of Vans
aircraft rebuilt alternators. The failures seemed to be related to the use
of the Over Voltage Protector (OVP) crowbar device as promoted by Bob N. of
Aeroelectric connection. A senior individual at Vans stated to me that all
the reported alternator failures to date (NOV 2004) had the Aeroelectric
connection OVP (or similar crowbar OVP device) and "B" lead contactor
installed. There had been NO reported alternator failures where the Vans
recommended installation was followed. This is where there is no "B" lead
contactor or OVP in the system.
What is a load dump? A load dump is the result of the current flowing in an
inductor being interrupted suddenly with no place to go. The current wants
to continue and the result is an increasing voltage across the open circuit
(interruption) until there is a path to dump the energy. An example is the
spark plug coil in an ignition system. The 12V on the primary of the coil
shoots to as high as 400V when the points open and the secondary voltage
increases until there is a spark (15,000 V to 25,000V). Another example is
the common relay where it is typical to have a simple diode across the coil
so the controlling switch contacts are protected from what would otherwise
be a hi-voltage spark. The final example is the case of an alternator that
is supplying current to the load (the aircraft electrical buss) and a load
is turned off. The result is the original load current wants to continue for
a short time and the battery absorbs this excess current. There are a couple
of different cases however where the battery is not connected. The battery
may be off line or failed with an open cell (also in a separate "Points for
discussion" post). The remaining load on the system will absorb the current
surge and the system bus voltage will rise for a short time. The amount of
rise and the duration of the voltage rise are dependent on the size of the
load being dumped and the current load on the buss. The conditions can vary
from insignificant to many volts in the extreme, but possible, cases.
The other and more common case of load dump is if the "B" lead is
disconnected intentionally or by the OVP or by some failure. In this case
the alternator voltage increases until the internal regulator over voltage
protection device clamps the voltage below the damage point of the
regulator. In the case of an externally regulated alternator there is no
alternator internal device to protect the alternator and the rising voltage
will eventually clamped by the rectifier diodes in the alternator. Normally
the alternator rectifier diodes are not harmed by this.
The load dump is independent of where the alternator regulator is. The cause
is a sudden reduction of alternator current load and what remains attached
to the "B" lead determines the effect on the alternator and the system.
A single alternator and battery basic circuit as typically found on many
aircraft electrical systems was built up using commonly used parts,
contactors, Circuit breakers etc. Both an internally regulated alternator
and an externally regulated alternator were used as well as the above
mentioned OVP protector. This part of the circuit was exactly as recommended
in Aeroelectric Connection documents.
The testing was complicated by several unexpected problems with the
supporting components. Most issues were traced to the contactors contact
bounce and the design of the OVP. Both of these details will be discussed in
separate "Points for discussion" posts in the very near future.
The load dump is real and has potentially very large power transients that
can damage anything attached to the alternator "B" lead when they happen.
One solution to prevent internal alternator regulator damage is simple. The
addition of a transorb (a super fast Zener type diode) from the "B" lead to
ground on the alternator side of any fuse or contactor will protect the
alternator. It's not clear why the only reported regulator failures due to
load dump transients are from Van's alternators. The alternator we used was
severely tested with no failures and no external load dump protection. This
was not a ND alternator and a 55A rebuilt (by a different rebuilder, Bosch
Aerospace) ND alternator will be tested to its limits in the near future.
The testing to date suggests the following as suitable (and is backed up
with analysis of the parts selected). A 1.5KE18A is recommended. This is a
unidirectional device rated at 1,500 watts peak and starts clamping at 18V
and several will keep the transient to 22V peak. One part for each 20 amps
of alternator rating with an additional part IF there is a crowbar OVP
device being used. The reasoning is covered in ( A "Points for discussion"
post) Thus 3 or 4 devices are suggested. While there is an equivalent 5,000
watt device available it's hard to find in small quantities and it has a
couple of electrical disadvantages. First it starts clamping at a slightly
higher voltage and it has poorer voltage vs. current clamping
characteristics. Finally it's only one device and if a lead (they are solid
copper and subject to work hardening) should break you could have no
protection at all. With several devices in parallel there is redundancy and
they load share quite well.
Issues with the OVP and contactor contact bounce will be addressed in points
for Discussion posts in the very near future.
Seems simple and short but the details and all the related problems
developing during the testing were even more complex. Analyzing the problems
and designing a solution and finally testing the solution took many months
and continues at a lower level. There seems to be no single solution that
fits all requirements.
Paul
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Interior lighting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 20:11:55 -0600, Stein Bruch <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
> This is exactly the solution I used on my RV6. I have a 1.5" x 36"
> length of the high quality EL tape, hooked to a dimmer. It is the best
> panel
> lighting I've seen, bar none. It looks the same as them military and
> 747's
> when lit, and emits a cool blue/green light on my panel, lighting the
> whole
> thing. It draws very little current, and does a great job.
Stein -
What type of dimmer did you use? B&C (Nuckolls')? a PWM?
I tried the PWM from Flight Data Systems. It is a 4 channel PWM. It does
not do very well dimming the EL. At low levels, the lamps pulse and it
does not get acceptable until about full open on the dimmer.
Thanks,
John
--
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Interior lighting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
I've used two different dimmers in my RV6's. One RV has the el-cheapo
$20something Van's dimmer, and the other RV6 has a 'lectric Bob dimmer which
is a bit more "robust" than the Van's one. Both have worked REALLY well,
creating a nice even curve of light power from very dim to full brightness.
Also, I finally worked out a deal this week with a some mfgrs and ordered a
couple dozen EL light strip kits in Blue/Green color, which I'll have on my
website in a couple of weeks at nice low prices as usual!
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
Schroeder
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Interior lighting
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder"
<jschroeder@perigee.net>
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 20:11:55 -0600, Stein Bruch <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
> This is exactly the solution I used on my RV6. I have a 1.5" x 36"
> length of the high quality EL tape, hooked to a dimmer. It is the best
> panel
> lighting I've seen, bar none. It looks the same as them military and
> 747's
> when lit, and emits a cool blue/green light on my panel, lighting the
> whole
> thing. It draws very little current, and does a great job.
Stein -
What type of dimmer did you use? B&C (Nuckolls')? a PWM?
I tried the PWM from Flight Data Systems. It is a 4 channel PWM. It does
not do very well dimming the EL. At low levels, the lamps pulse and it
does not get acceptable until about full open on the dimmer.
Thanks,
John
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