Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:25 AM - Re: Cooly hat switch (Franz Fux)
2. 01:25 AM - Re: Cooly hat switch (D Wysong)
3. 05:31 AM - Re: Compass Location (BobsV35B@aol.com)
4. 06:57 AM - Re: noise in bose headsets (Jeff Hildebrand)
5. 07:31 AM - Re: noise in bose headsets (Jeff Hildebrand)
6. 08:20 AM - multiple grounds (Ken Simmons)
7. 08:47 AM - Re: multiple grounds (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 09:49 AM - Re: multiple grounds (rv-9a-online)
9. 10:09 AM - Re: Compass Location (Leo Corbalis)
10. 02:59 PM - Re: Re: Contact Arc Suppression (Ken)
11. 05:20 PM - .dwg file for dual batt / single alt system (Larry E. James)
12. 05:32 PM - Re: Contact Arc Suppression (Eric M. Jones)
13. 08:44 PM - Re: noise in bose headsets (Richard Riley)
14. 08:49 PM - Re: multiple grounds (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 08:52 PM - Re: .dwg file for dual batt / single alt (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Cooly hat switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Franz Fux" <franz@lastfrontierheli.com>
Hi everybody,
I got a cooly hat switch on my stick grip that I would like to wire for
trim, up and down switch and toggle switch for the radio left and right. The
markings on the colly hat terminals are A B C E plus and reverse g. Could
someone enlighten me as to which terminal corresponded which the appropriate
motion on the switch as in left, right, up and down, with other words how to
wire it to get the appropriate results
Thanks for your help
Franz
RV7A
--
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Cooly hat switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: D Wysong <hdwysong@gmail.com>
Hi Franz -
You can decode the coolie hat with a multimeter/Ohmmeter and a little
detective work. My guess is that 'g' is the common terminal and that
when you move the hat to one of 4 positions (up, down, left, right)
you'll see continuity between 'g' and one of the terminals ('A', 'B',
'C', 'D').
Hook one of your meter leads to 'g' and the other to 'A' and start
moving the hat until you get a closed circuit (i.e. - continuity or
low resistance). Repeat for 'B' and 'C' (you get 'D' for free!) and
you're set.
D
Long-EZ (parts, that is...)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Compass Location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 4/13/2005 12:56:50 A.M. Central Standard Time,
rv6n6r@comcast.net writes:
Do you think you'll NEED to be able to read the thing? If you're flying IFR
and expect to be adjusting your DG to match the wet compass then you may
need to figure out a way to locate it front/center and separate from your
electronic gizmos.
Good Morning All,
For What It Is Worth, the DC-8 has a small magnetic compass mounted several
feet aft of the pilots in the overhead of the cockpit. There are two mirrors
mounted on the top of the glare shield, one for the captain and on for the
copilot. There is another mirror just aft of the compass. The compass is
mounted in the normal orientation. The mirrors on the glare shield can be folded
down out of the way or flipped up for adjustment to the line of sight so
that they can be used to see the compass.
There is more than one way to skin a cat!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Message 4
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| Subject: | noise in bose headsets |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand" <jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
No magnetos.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Riley
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: noise in bose headsets
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley <Richard@Riley.net>
Do you have an electronic ignition?
At 08:22 PM 4/12/05, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand"
><jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
>
>I was wondering how to filter some noise out of our aircraft powered Bose
>headsets.
Message 5
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| Subject: | noise in bose headsets |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand" <jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
I should have made that more clear. I just have magnetos.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Hildebrand
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: noise in bose headsets
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand"
<jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
No magnetos.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Riley
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: noise in bose headsets
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley <Richard@Riley.net>
Do you have an electronic ignition?
At 08:22 PM 4/12/05, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand"
><jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
>
>I was wondering how to filter some noise out of our aircraft powered Bose
>headsets.
Message 6
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| Subject: | multiple grounds |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
I know this has been covered before and I apologize for bringing it up again. I'm
trying to build a harness for a PM3000 to replace a PM501. I've read the "connection"
and looked at Bob's pages on multiple grounds in a dsub and shield
pigtails, but I'm still having trouble getting all this to work out.
I would love to slap the guy that built this intercom with one ground connection
on the connector. If this thing was wired for full capability and, as they suggest,
with a separate ground and shield, that means you would have to tie 30
grounds together.
Back to my problem. I already have the mics and headphones for the pilot and copilot
(2 place airplane) wired in to the connector using 3 conductor shielded
wire. My plan was to pull the shields out in a pigtail and tie these all together,
including the separate ground wire. With just these installed and the radio
mic/headphone and the music input to go, it's obvious this won't work without
having a big glob of wires soldered together. It also looks like all the wires
will not fit in the hole in the dsub shell. This also makes me wonder how
they do this on a 6 place.
Any help would be appreciated.
Stein, what's that lead time looking like these days?
Thanks.
Ken
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: multiple grounds |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:18 AM 4/13/2005 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
>
>I know this has been covered before and I apologize for bringing it up
>again. I'm trying to build a harness for a PM3000 to replace a PM501. I've
>read the "connection" and looked at Bob's pages on multiple grounds in a
>dsub and shield pigtails, but I'm still having trouble getting all this to
>work out.
>
>I would love to slap the guy that built this intercom with one ground
>connection on the connector. If this thing was wired for full capability
>and, as they suggest, with a separate ground and shield, that means you
>would have to tie 30 grounds together.
>
>Back to my problem. I already have the mics and headphones for the pilot
>and copilot (2 place airplane) wired in to the connector using 3 conductor
>shielded wire. My plan was to pull the shields out in a pigtail and tie
>these all together, including the separate ground wire. With just these
>installed and the radio mic/headphone and the music input to go, it's
>obvious this won't work without having a big glob of wires soldered
>together. It also looks like all the wires will not fit in the hole in the
>dsub shell. This also makes me wonder how they do this on a 6 place.
Daisy chain the shields in staggered locations outside the connector shell.
The system isn't going to roll over and die 'cause you have 2-3" of
'exposed'
wires at the connector as shown in:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/pigtail/pigtail8.jpg
Staggering keeps them from becoming a big localize lump. If you can use
solder-sleeves, it will less bulky than DIY joints covered with heat
shrink but the heat shrink method works too. If you have signal wires
to ground into too-few pins on the accessory, these can be added into
the daisy chain as well. We do this all the time at RAC. There are
a number of connectors that terminate a dozen or more shielded wires
and a signal ground or two into a very few number of ground pins.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: multiple grounds |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rv-9a-online <rv-9a-online@telus.net>
Ken, this came up as a 'forest of tabs' discussion some time ago.
What I did in response to the discussion was to develop a device that
solved this wiring problem, but it was for a Sigtronics SPA-400 or
Sport-200 intercom. See http://www3.telus.net/aviation/vx for more
information (AMX-1A).
It would be possible to build a harness to connect the PM3000 to the
AMX-1A, but you would need to give up the 'ISO' function on the PM3000
by wiring the pilot HP to both pilot and copilot positions.
There may also be a simpler way... wire up a D-Sub connector (using
solder-tail pins) and connect a whole row (or more) of pins together
with a length of bare wire. Then, wire all of your grounds from your
headsets, mics, PM3000 etc. to this connector using crimp pins. Mount
it adjacent to the connector on the PM3000 so that the ground leads reach.
Finally, you could 'daisy-chain' your ground leads... but this makes
changes very difficult.
Bob N has a photo of these arragements, somewhere.
Vern Little.
Ken Simmons wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
>
>I know this has been covered before and I apologize for bringing it up again.
I'm trying to build a harness for a PM3000 to replace a PM501. I've read the "connection"
and looked at Bob's pages on multiple grounds in a dsub and shield
pigtails, but I'm still having trouble getting all this to work out.
>
>I would love to slap the guy that built this intercom with one ground connection
on the connector. If this thing was wired for full capability and, as they
suggest, with a separate ground and shield, that means you would have to tie 30
grounds together.
>
>Back to my problem. I already have the mics and headphones for the pilot and copilot
(2 place airplane) wired in to the connector using 3 conductor shielded
wire. My plan was to pull the shields out in a pigtail and tie these all together,
including the separate ground wire. With just these installed and the radio
mic/headphone and the music input to go, it's obvious this won't work without
having a big glob of wires soldered together. It also looks like all the wires
will not fit in the hole in the dsub shell. This also makes me wonder how
they do this on a 6 place.
>
>Any help would be appreciated.
>
>Stein, what's that lead time looking like these days?
>
>Thanks.
>Ken
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Compass Location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
Put the compass on a wooden table. Take each instrument,radio,switch and any
other stuff from the panel. Watch the compass while you move each item
separately around the compass. The less deflection, the closer it can be to
the compass or vice versa. Buy a large heavy duty degausser and go over all
the steel parts in the cockpit, around the cockpit and on the front of the
firewall. Don't use it on any instruments or radios. You will still have
deviation but at least the compass wont think the N pole is on your left
wingtip.
Leo Corbalis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Compass Location
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha"
> <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
>
> Hello List,
>
> I am hoping someone can point me to some good data on how close I can
> mount
> my compass to avionics or instruments and still have it be accurate:
>
> I need to choose between 3 options for locating my in-panel compass:
>
> 1) - Mount the compass ~2" from my Garmin Panel mounted GPS/Comm
>
> 2) - Mount it ~6" from a King KT-76a Transponder AND right next to my
> quad gauge & intercom
>
> 3) - Cut another new panel & mount it on the far side of the panel
> where it will be difficult to read.
>
> Any help or suggestions are appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Grant
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Contact Arc Suppression |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
An interesting thread. I don't doubt the story for a good size
alternator but my little 40 amp alternator is rated at maybe 600 watts.
I'd guess that 14 volts pretty much saturates the armature and excess
field voltage can't magnetize the armature much more than 14 volts can.
Does that sound reasonable? Similarly I'd expect that there isn't a lot
of excess iron in the stator either. So I'm thinking that if the voltage
ramped up to 100 volts, the power is still pretty much limited to not a
heck of a lot more than 600 watts. This would be consistant with what I
have observed when using a larger 12 volt alternator as a 120 vac power
source. So I'm thinking that the little 40 amp alternator might not put
out much more than 6 amps at 100 volts in a out of control runaway. You
need a fairly sharp electrode to deliberately maintain much of an arc at
those conditions and my SWAG would be that even then it will extinguish
with much more than a 1/10" long arc. I would further guess that a
battery contactor would handle that with its fairly massive contacts.
Too many guesses to go much farther but you did solicit opinions ;)
It is no problem sacrificing a contactor for a real overvoltage incident
however it would be nice to have confidence that the destroyed contactor
would "tame the beast" as Bob says. Anybody know of a reasonably priced
200 vdc 10 amp switching device/contactor?
I happen to live in the vicinity of an
operating electric railway museum that runs on 600 vdc and from memory
their switching devices are not that massive. I assumed that the
contacts have sufficient mass to keep the arc from sustaining but I
guess the big controllers do progressively switch in a resistor bank.
I'd further guess that I should drop in and have a chat with them...
Anybody know how far the contacts separate on a battery contactor?
Ken
Eric M. Jones wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
<emjones@charter.net>
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "glaesers"
><glaesers@wideopenwest.com>
>
>
>
>>What about your PowerLink Contactor - doesn't that technology scale
up well
>>
>>
>to 42V? (You say you can get one good for 30V - what's another few >volts
>among friends ;-)
>
>
>>Wouldn't it work as a B+ contactor for the 12V crowd - as long as you
have
>>
>>
>a WhackJack on the B lead to limit the voltage? The price is a
hurdle, >but
>it does solve the arcing problem. Dennis Glaeser
>
>Dennis,
>
>I don't propose anyone design the OBAM aircraft to 42V now. I am now
making
>up the first of the 14.5 V units but the higher voltage devices may never
>happen. Many of the advantages of higher voltages seem to have
>evaporated---more in a later post.
>
>Yes, indeed it solves all the arcing etc., but there will still be lots of
>contacts around for decades. Most of this work was done by Paul Messinger
>who elaborately tested lab versions of aircraft electrical systems.
Paul has
>already demonstrated that a failed alternator regulator can produce at
least
>200V and the arc ("Fire") never quits at 20 amps and 100V. Really
>spectacular he says.
>
>The test was an alternator with field leads brought out and connected to a
>power supply where field voltage could be manually controlled and the "B"
>lead was loaded as above. Paul stopped the 200V test to prevent
destruction
>of the alternator diodes and the fire test was stopped after a few seconds
>but the contactor is now NFG.
>
>How bad is a runaway alternator? Well...there isn't much data, but the
>diodes blow up at whatever their withstand voltage is, usually 300V. I
also
>think this is a very rare event, but getting estimates of MTBF has proved
>difficult. Opinions?
>
>Regards,
>Eric M. Jones
>www.PerihelionDesign.com
>113 Brentwood Drive
>Southbridge MA 01550-2705
>Phone (508) 764-2072
>Email: emjones@charter.net
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | .dwg file for dual batt / single alt system |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry E. James" <larry@ncproto.com>
First time on this list. Hi all !! A quick search in the
archives proved a bit confusing. Could someone please steer
me to (hopefully) the .dwg file in Appendix Z that defines a
dual battery (one larger and one smaller) with single
alternator system ?? I am at this stage of a Harmon Rocket II.
Am I missing anything in taking this direction like, is this
a primer-like issue on the RV-List ?? (lots of opinions and
controversy) Or, is this a pretty straight-up approach ??
cheers,
--
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA HR2 fuselage and systems
larry@ncproto.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Contact Arc Suppression |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
>An interesting thread. I don't doubt the story for a good size alternator
but my little 40 amp alternator is rated at maybe 600 watts.I'd guess that
14 >volts pretty much saturates the armature and excess field voltage can't
magnetize the armature much more than 14 volts can. Does that sound
>reasonable?
Ken, not by Paul's test. Runaway alternators (although rare), seem to go up
to the diode reverse voltage. It fries the diodes...and doesn't stop there.
>Similarly I'd expect that there isn't a lot of excess iron in the stator
either. So I'm thinking that if the voltage ramped up to 100 volts, the
power is still >pretty much limited to not a heck of a lot more than 600
watts. This would be consistant with what I have observed when using a
larger 12 volt >alternator as a 120 vac power source. So I'm thinking that
the little 40 amp alternator might not put out much more than 6 amps at 100
volts in a out >of control runaway.
Perhaps, but I haven't seen any current measurements. Even 6A 100V is more
than enough to destroy every wire-connected device in the aircraft anyway.
>You need a fairly sharp electrode to deliberately maintain much of an arc
at those conditions and my SWAG would be that even then it will >extinguish
with much more than a 1/10" long arc. I would further guess that a battery
contactor would handle that with its fairly massive contacts. Too >many
guesses to go much farther but you did solicit opinions ;)
The contacts turn to plasma pretty quickly; a sharp point is not required.
The automotive people are concerned because at 42V, the arc cannot be
extinguished in normal contactors, relays and switches. That's where this
information came from.
>It is no problem sacrificing a contactor for a real overvoltage incident
however it would be nice to have confidence that the destroyed contactor
>would "tame the beast" as Bob says. Anybody know of a reasonably priced 200
vdc 10 amp switching device/contactor?
Has the event for which the B+ contactor was developed ever been simulated?
For the switching device you would need to carry the normal current (40-60A)
AND withstand the voltage. So we're looking at an over-60A over-200VDC
part......and a truck to carry it.
>I happen to live in the vicinity of an operating electric railway museum
that runs on 600 vdc and from memory their switching devices are not that
>massive. I assumed that the contacts have sufficient mass to keep the arc
from sustaining but I guess the big controllers do progressively switch in
>a resistor bank. I'd further guess that I should drop in and have a chat
with them...
Cool. Some gray-beard there probably knows a lot about it. Please let us
know.
>Anybody know how far the contacts separate on a battery contactor?
I have a B&C contactor that I have disassembled. The gap is very
small...0.020-0.040? The contactor will protect itself due to massive copper
contacts. But it won't do your instrument panel goodies much good.
Before anyone starts flapping their elbows and making poultry noises---let's
see what's going on: I propose that a direct connection between the RG
battery and the internally regulated alternator is probably fine. No B+
contactor, some big transorbs on the bus, and only an emergency mechanical
disconnect for the battery ala race-car parts. My choice is a single
battery, perhaps an Optima D51 (wish it were smaller) and a Time-Till-Empty
battery meter (which Paul is developing). I'll change it every 5 years since
the airplane will run just fine on alternator alone.
The information on arc suppression, and the previous note on coil
suppression are interesting and should probably become part of aircraft
electrical systems even if they don't go all solid state.
PS--Today I received a failed Transpo F7078 external regulator and analyzed
it. The design of the device is a few years old but very good. Lots of
laser-trimmed parts on a ceramic substrate. The assembly of the device is
not quite as good. The quality problem seems to be the manual attachment of
the leads and the potentiometer. One lead was cold soldered (but still
functional). The CW end lead of the potentiometer was broken off and showed
signs of crystallization fracture, poor attachment and arcing. An internal
alternator regulator is not heir to the same faults. It's the wires that
connect things that are usually at fault.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
"A man's got to know his limitations."
--Clint Eastwood (Dirty Harry)
Message 13
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| Subject: | noise in bose headsets |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley <Richard@Riley.net>
OK, it's probably not applicable then. I had a very similar problem - Bose
headsets, Lyc 540, ticking with RPM. But I had lightspeed electronic
ignitions. Klaus recommended that I go to resistance spark plug wires, it
cured it completely. But I have no idea if it would work with mags.
At 07:30 AM 4/13/05, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand"
><jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
>
>I should have made that more clear. I just have magnetos.
>
>Jeff
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: multiple grounds |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:49 AM 4/13/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rv-9a-online <rv-9a-online@telus.net>
>
>Ken, this came up as a 'forest of tabs' discussion some time ago.
>
>What I did in response to the discussion was to develop a device that
>solved this wiring problem, but it was for a Sigtronics SPA-400 or
>Sport-200 intercom. See http://www3.telus.net/aviation/vx for more
>information (AMX-1A).
>
>It would be possible to build a harness to connect the PM3000 to the
>AMX-1A, but you would need to give up the 'ISO' function on the PM3000
>by wiring the pilot HP to both pilot and copilot positions.
>
>There may also be a simpler way... wire up a D-Sub connector (using
>solder-tail pins) and connect a whole row (or more) of pins together
>with a length of bare wire. Then, wire all of your grounds from your
>headsets, mics, PM3000 etc. to this connector using crimp pins. Mount
>it adjacent to the connector on the PM3000 so that the ground leads reach.
>
>Finally, you could 'daisy-chain' your ground leads... but this makes
>changes very difficult.
>
>Bob N has a photo of these arragements, somewhere.
Here's a 37 pin Avionics Ground bus you'll be able to buy
from Steinair shortly.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Avionics_Ground_0.jpg
Here's the DIY approach . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Avionics_Ground_1.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Avionics_Ground_2.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Avionics_Ground_3.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Avionics_Ground_4.gif
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: .dwg file for dual batt / single alt |
system
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
system
At 05:19 PM 4/13/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry E. James" <larry@ncproto.com>
>
>First time on this list. Hi all !! A quick search in the
>archives proved a bit confusing. Could someone please steer
>me to (hopefully) the .dwg file in Appendix Z that defines a
>dual battery (one larger and one smaller) with single
>alternator system ?? I am at this stage of a Harmon Rocket II.
>
>Am I missing anything in taking this direction like, is this
>a primer-like issue on the RV-List ?? (lots of opinions and
>controversy) Or, is this a pretty straight-up approach ??
>cheers,
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Appendix_Z_Drawings/z11h.dwg
you can patch on the second battery with .dwg data from
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Appendix_Z_Drawings/z29-30h.dwg
Bob . . .
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