Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:10 AM - How does one judge a battery on rental plane? (Kenneth Ward)
2. 05:13 AM - Noise in headsets (Charles Heathco)
3. 05:40 AM - Re: noise in bose headsets (cgalley)
4. 06:06 AM - Re: How does one judge a battery on rental (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 06:37 AM - Re: noise in bose headsets (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 06:53 AM - Re: How does one judge a battery on rental plane? (BobsV35B@aol.com)
7. 06:56 AM - Re: How does one judge a battery on rental plane? (LarryRobertHelming)
8. 07:02 AM - Re: multiple grounds (Joe & Jan Connell)
9. 07:26 AM - Re: How does one judge a battery on rental plane? (cgalley)
10. 07:34 AM - Re: Re: multiple grounds (Stein Bruch)
11. 07:39 AM - Re: Re: Contact Arc Suppression (Ken)
12. 07:56 AM - Re: noise in bose headsets (Jeff Hildebrand)
13. 08:03 AM - Re: How does one judge a battery on rental plane? (Ken)
14. 08:25 AM - Re: noise in bose headsets (Matt Prather)
15. 08:32 AM - Re: noise in bose headsets (BobsV35B@aol.com)
16. 08:37 AM - Re: How does one judge a battery on rental plane? (BobsV35B@aol.com)
17. 08:53 AM - Re: How does one judge a battery on rental plane? (Jim's Shaw Mail)
18. 08:54 AM - EGYRO: was How does one judge a battery on a rental plane? (william mills)
19. 10:48 AM - Re: EGYRO: was How does one judge a battery on a rental pl... (BobsV35B@aol.com)
20. 10:50 AM - Re:Re: noise in bose headsets (buck)
21. 11:05 AM - Re: EGYRO: was How does one judge a battery on a rental plane? (owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com)
22. 11:26 AM - Re: EGYRO: was How does one judge a battery on a rental pl... (BobsV35B@aol.com)
23. 11:43 AM - Re: Re: multiple grounds (Bob C.)
24. 12:10 PM - Re: noise in bose headsets (Jeff Hildebrand)
25. 12:32 PM - Re: Re: noise in bose headsets (Jeff Hildebrand)
26. 12:32 PM - Re: noise in bose headsets (Jeff Hildebrand)
27. 12:34 PM - Re: noise in bose headsets (Dj Merrill)
28. 02:43 PM - Re: noise in bose headsets (cgalley)
29. 04:42 PM - Re: EGYRO: was How does one judge a battery on (Kevin Horton)
30. 08:45 PM - Re: How does one judge a battery on rental plane? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
31. 08:45 PM - Re: noise in bose headsets (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
32. 08:45 PM - Re: How does one judge a battery on rental (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | How does one judge a battery on rental plane? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kenneth Ward <kennethward@peoplepc.com>
Short of carrying some kind of sophisticated battery load tester to the FBO when
renting a plane or never flying until I complete my Aeroelectric connection
compliant homebuilt, is there some kind of valid quick & dirty check I can add
to my checklists that would provide some confidence I wouldn't be authoring a
"dark & stormy night" story?
Currently, I am limited to the following to gain confidence in a bird (not complete
checklist, just a summary);
Rent from most reputable FBO that will let me touch their equipment,
Verify everything works before engine start, lights aren't dim, flap motors sound
normal speed,
Big wires (if accessible) aren't loose,
Engine cranks fairly briskly,
Ammeter and voltmeter (if equipped) are in normal range well before run-up.
Some day when we fly home late from my Dad's, and the kid asks what happens if
we lose power I'd rather say more than "you hold the flashlight until we land",
I'd like to add 'it shouldn't because I checked..."
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Noise in headsets |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco@comcast.net>
Its a little confusing, but I think you have mags. I had to put mag filters on
mine which cleared it right up, but a bit tricky to do. The noise i had was a
clicking/buzzing that changed with engine speed. charlie heathco
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: noise in bose headsets |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
The "R" in the plug number says that it is a resistor plug! Don't think you
can now buy a shielded plug that isn't a resister. Could be that the
resistor is bad and causing the noise. Check the gap, if it is too wide, the
spark will find the path of least resistance.
Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Riley" <Richard@RILEY.NET>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: noise in bose headsets
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley <Richard@Riley.net>
>
> OK, it's probably not applicable then. I had a very similar problem -
> Bose
> headsets, Lyc 540, ticking with RPM. But I had lightspeed electronic
> ignitions. Klaus recommended that I go to resistance spark plug wires, it
> cured it completely. But I have no idea if it would work with mags.
>
> At 07:30 AM 4/13/05, you wrote:
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand"
>><jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
>>
>>I should have made that more clear. I just have magnetos.
>>
>>Jeff
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: How does one judge a battery on rental |
plane?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
plane?
At 07:09 AM 4/14/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kenneth Ward
><kennethward@peoplepc.com>
>
>Short of carrying some kind of sophisticated battery load tester to the
>FBO when renting a plane or never flying until I complete my Aeroelectric
>connection compliant homebuilt, is there some kind of valid quick & dirty
>check I can add to my checklists that would provide some confidence I
>wouldn't be authoring a "dark & stormy night" story?
>
>Currently, I am limited to the following to gain confidence in a bird (not
>complete checklist, just a summary);
>Rent from most reputable FBO that will let me touch their equipment,
>Verify everything works before engine start, lights aren't dim, flap
>motors sound normal speed,
>Big wires (if accessible) aren't loose,
>Engine cranks fairly briskly,
>Ammeter and voltmeter (if equipped) are in normal range well before run-up.
>
>Some day when we fly home late from my Dad's, and the kid asks what
>happens if we lose power I'd rather say more than "you hold the flashlight
>until we land", I'd like to add 'it shouldn't because I checked..."
If it were only that easy. First, if it cranks the engine
well the odds are in your favor. Aside from doing a real
capacity test (dump all the electrons out on the table and
count 'em) there is no practical means by which one can
simply observe battery condition from outside and deduce how many
working electrons it carries. Further, when you do a REAL
capacity test and find the battery lacking, one needs to
check the charging system performance to make sure the battery
is truly worn out and not simply undercharged by some deficiency
in the charging system.
I've mentioned before, when I walk up to a rental airplane,
I carry both equipment in the flight bag and a mind-set that
offers comfortable completion of flight whether anything on
the panel is working or not. To date, I've never had to
rely on this equipment but its there. You're far better off
maintaining YOURSELF and equipment in a failure tolerant mode
than to spend much of your $time$ trying to assure the failure
tolerance of someone else's airplane. This only drives up the cost of
operation for equipment that is already expensive to use.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: noise in bose headsets |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
I'm getting into this thread late but has the propagation mode
for the noise been identified? Does disconnection of p-leads at
the mags make a difference? Does the noise run up and down with
volume control setting on radios or intercom? Have victim systems
been temporarily operated from independent batteries to see if
noise goes away?
Bob . . .
At 07:39 AM 4/14/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
>The "R" in the plug number says that it is a resistor plug! Don't think you
>can now buy a shielded plug that isn't a resister. Could be that the
>resistor is bad and causing the noise. Check the gap, if it is too wide, the
>spark will find the path of least resistance.
>
>Cy Galley - Chair,
>AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
>A Service Project of Chapter 75
>EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
>EAA Sport Pilot
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Richard Riley" <Richard@RILEY.NET>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: noise in bose headsets
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley <Richard@Riley.net>
> >
> > OK, it's probably not applicable then. I had a very similar problem -
> > Bose
> > headsets, Lyc 540, ticking with RPM. But I had lightspeed electronic
> > ignitions. Klaus recommended that I go to resistance spark plug wires, it
> > cured it completely. But I have no idea if it would work with mags.
> >
> > At 07:30 AM 4/13/05, you wrote:
> >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand"
> >><jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
> >>
> >>I should have made that more clear. I just have magnetos.
> >>
> >>Jeff
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>--
>
>
>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: How does one judge a battery on rental plane? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
Good Morning 'Lectric Bob,
Your's is excellent advice. (More comment later)
May I also suggest that those who use rental airplanes start to ask the
operators if their shop is doing capacity checks on the batteries at each annual?
So far, I have not found any major, or shade tree, shop that is doing them
regularly. I do not consider that an indictment of the shops. It is more a
reflection of the way things have been done historically. The Instructions
For Continued Airworthiness included with all of the new batteries spell out
quite lengthy procedures for doing a capacity check. Those directions vary from
manufacturer to manufacturer, but all that I have read thus far have
required that the battery first be serviced (charged) to full capacity and then
capacity checked. After that procedure, if the battery passes, it then must be
recharged before it is put back in service.
Very $time$ consuming. Maybe a little gentle questioning will get a few
operators to start doing the required capacity checks.
Back to what we can do to protect ourselves from an electrical failure.
In the days of yore, I rigged a battery powered T&B instrument so that I
could keep the airplane right side up in the event of an instrument failure in
the airplane I was flying. I never had to use it, so I figure it kept the
tigers at bay!
My rig consisted of a brand new twenty eight volt WWII surplus T&B (a
twenty dollar item in those days) with three of those then ubiquitous nine volt
"B" battery bars taped around the outside of the instrument in such a manner
that the two bottom batteries made a steady mount for the instrument when it
was placed on the glare shield. An appropriately wired switch completed the
unit. While I never had to use it for real. I did demonstrate it often under the
hood to friends. I cannot take the credit for originating the idea. An old
timer had mentioned to me that he carried a vacuum T&B with a hose on it
that he could put in his mouth. He would set the T&B on the glare shield and
gently suck on the hose to get the proper spin up on the gyro. I tried that,
but decided I would go modern and use one of those new modern WWII gyros that
were so cheap and plentiful at the time.
With a little practice, a Garmin 196 or 296 selected to the instrument panel
page could be used in the same manner as we used that T&B.
While I still believe it is easier with the T&B, I have tried the 196 under
the hood. I don't know how well I would do if I had already lost it and
needed to recover, but when you know the safety pilot is there ready to help,
it
works quite well.
If one is prepared for the worst, it rarely happens. These days, a good
handheld GPS and a good handheld communication unit combined with a modicum of
training can provide a level of convenience that will handle almost anything
short of an engine failure or a wing spar separation.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 4/14/2005 8:07:21 A.M. Central Standard Time,
b.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
I've mentioned before, when I walk up to a rental airplane,
I carry both equipment in the flight bag and a mind-set that
offers comfortable completion of flight whether anything on
the panel is working or not. To date, I've never had to
rely on this equipment but its there. You're far better off
maintaining YOURSELF and equipment in a failure tolerant mode
than to spend much of your $time$ trying to assure the failure
tolerance of someone else's airplane. This only drives up the cost of
operation for equipment that is already expensive to use.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: How does one judge a battery on rental plane? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Why not ask to see the maintenance log and see when it was last replaced?
Friends are like angels who lift us to our feet
when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly....unknown
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up
>><kennethward@peoplepc.com>
>>
>>Short of carrying some kind of sophisticated battery load tester to the
>>FBO when renting a plane or never flying until I complete my Aeroelectric
>>connection compliant homebuilt, is there some kind of valid quick & dirty
>>check I can add to my checklists that would provide some confidence I
>>wouldn't be authoring a "dark & stormy night" story?
>>
>>Currently, I am limited to the following to gain confidence in a bird (not
>>complete checklist, just a summary);
>>Rent from most reputable FBO that will let me touch their equipment,
>>Verify everything works before engine start, lights aren't dim, flap
>>motors sound normal speed,
>>Big wires (if accessible) aren't loose,
>>Engine cranks fairly briskly,
>>Ammeter and voltmeter (if equipped) are in normal range well before
>>run-up.
>>
>>Some day when we fly home late from my Dad's, and the kid asks what
>>happens if we lose power I'd rather say more than "you hold the flashlight
>>until we land", I'd like to add 'it shouldn't because I checked..."
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: multiple grounds |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Joe & Jan Connell" <jconnell@rconnect.com>
Thanks for all the ideas gentlemen. I'm installing a PM1200 intercom
in my RV-9A.
Am I correct to assume the shields for the various subsystems can
be combined? In other words can the shields for the pilot's mic,
pilot's headphones, etc., all be combined together or do these
subassemblies need to be isolated from each other?
Can all the shield grounds be combined to the main aircraft ground
coming out of the intercom?
I think the answers are yes but I'm not sure if the aircraft ground to the
intercom can be connected to all the shields.
Thanks.
Joe Connell
Stewartville, MN
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: How does one judge a battery on rental plane? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
A cigarette plug with an expanded band or digital display voltmeter might be
helpful. Most installed meters in factory airplanes are not sensitive enough
to produce proper warnings.
A quick check of the battery voltage might be very enlightening. If the
voltage is below 12, you probably have a bad cell. If the voltage doesn't
go up into the 13+ range on starting, you have a bad charging system. If it
goes over about 14.5 the battery will soon be cooked to death. If the
voltage at any time drops back in the 12s find a place to land as the
charging system just quit.
Bob can probably pin down these critical voltages to a more precise values.
Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: <BobsV35B@aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How does one judge a battery on rental
plane?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>
> Good Morning 'Lectric Bob,
>
> Your's is excellent advice. (More comment later)
>
> May I also suggest that those who use rental airplanes start to ask the
> operators if their shop is doing capacity checks on the batteries at each
> annual?
>
>
> So far, I have not found any major, or shade tree, shop that is doing them
> regularly. I do not consider that an indictment of the shops. It is more
> a
> reflection of the way things have been done historically. The
> Instructions
> For Continued Airworthiness included with all of the new batteries spell
> out
> quite lengthy procedures for doing a capacity check. Those directions
> vary from
> manufacturer to manufacturer, but all that I have read thus far have
> required that the battery first be serviced (charged) to full capacity and
> then
> capacity checked. After that procedure, if the battery passes, it then
> must be
> recharged before it is put back in service.
>
> Very $time$ consuming. Maybe a little gentle questioning will get a few
> operators to start doing the required capacity checks.
>
> Back to what we can do to protect ourselves from an electrical failure.
>
> In the days of yore, I rigged a battery powered T&B instrument so that I
> could keep the airplane right side up in the event of an instrument
> failure in
> the airplane I was flying. I never had to use it, so I figure it kept
> the
> tigers at bay!
>
> My rig consisted of a brand new twenty eight volt WWII surplus T&B (a
> twenty dollar item in those days) with three of those then ubiquitous
> nine volt
> "B" battery bars taped around the outside of the instrument in such a
> manner
> that the two bottom batteries made a steady mount for the instrument when
> it
> was placed on the glare shield. An appropriately wired switch completed
> the
> unit. While I never had to use it for real. I did demonstrate it often
> under the
> hood to friends. I cannot take the credit for originating the idea. An
> old
> timer had mentioned to me that he carried a vacuum T&B with a hose on it
> that he could put in his mouth. He would set the T&B on the glare shield
> and
> gently suck on the hose to get the proper spin up on the gyro. I tried
> that,
> but decided I would go modern and use one of those new modern WWII gyros
> that
> were so cheap and plentiful at the time.
>
> With a little practice, a Garmin 196 or 296 selected to the instrument
> panel
> page could be used in the same manner as we used that T&B.
>
> While I still believe it is easier with the T&B, I have tried the 196
> under
> the hood. I don't know how well I would do if I had already lost it and
> needed to recover, but when you know the safety pilot is there ready to
> help, it
> works quite well.
>
> If one is prepared for the worst, it rarely happens. These days, a good
> handheld GPS and a good handheld communication unit combined with a
> modicum of
> training can provide a level of convenience that will handle almost
> anything
> short of an engine failure or a wing spar separation.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
>
> In a message dated 4/14/2005 8:07:21 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> b.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
>
> I've mentioned before, when I walk up to a rental airplane,
> I carry both equipment in the flight bag and a mind-set that
> offers comfortable completion of flight whether anything on
> the panel is working or not. To date, I've never had to
> rely on this equipment but its there. You're far better off
> maintaining YOURSELF and equipment in a failure tolerant mode
> than to spend much of your $time$ trying to assure the failure
> tolerance of someone else's airplane. This only drives up the cost of
> operation for equipment that is already expensive to use.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: multiple grounds |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
The answer is yes & no....
"Most" of the grounds can be combined, but in the majority of intercoms and installations
you really need to be careful with the Microphone grounds in particular.
These are usually the grounds that the Mic Jack and PTT switches use, and
I've personally seen a number of "squealing" headsets caused by sharing the
same ground points for the Mic, Headset, Airframe and Intercom power jacks.
One additional item that really helps out installation of Intercoms is to use solder
sleeves to terminate the shields. This also cleans up the installation
a LOT and is the way all the 'professional' shops do it.
Just my 2 cents as usual (after installing a LOT of intercoms).
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV-6's, Minneapolis
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Joe & Jan Connell" <jconnell@rconnect.com>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Joe & Jan Connell" <jconnell@rconnect.com>
>
>Thanks for all the ideas gentlemen. I'm installing a PM1200 intercom
>in my RV-9A.
>
>Am I correct to assume the shields for the various subsystems can
>be combined? In other words can the shields for the pilot's mic,
>pilot's headphones, etc., all be combined together or do these
>subassemblies need to be isolated from each other?
>
>Can all the shield grounds be combined to the main aircraft ground
>coming out of the intercom?
>
>I think the answers are yes but I'm not sure if the aircraft ground to the
>intercom can be connected to all the shields.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Joe Connell
>Stewartville, MN
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Contact Arc Suppression |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
I was afraid of that. Sufficient for 12 volts but not much more.
A contactor with more separation should be workable for an OVP
disconnect that only has to work once. With massive contacts like these
and a runaway, but power limited, source it should not be difficult to
get enough contact separation to stop the arc. This can't be near as
difficult as interupting power flow from 36 volt batteries that have
large amounts of current to feed the arc with. The current has to
decrease as voltage climbs on my little runaway alternator.
Another approach would be to use a momentary duty solenoid that yanked a
manual disconnect or knife switch to the off position. (a latching
relay) Not elegant but I don't think transorbs will last long enough
for me to turn it off manually.
Ken
PS - I have played with a ESR meter used for measuring the equivalent
series resistance of a capacitor. The one I have (Bob Parker's kit) will
measure the ESR of a battery just fine and I sometimes use it to decide
when to toss rechargeable batteries. That might be a way of instantly
getting an idea of battery degradation and sulphation??
>I have a B&C contactor that I have disassembled. The gap is very
>small...0.020-0.040? The contactor will protect itself due to massive copper
>contacts. But it won't do your instrument panel goodies much good.
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | noise in bose headsets |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand" <jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
The clicking is not change with RPM change or with volume up or down on the
intercom.
I have not tried disconnecting the P-leads, or running the headset power
from independent batteries.
I will try this next.
Thanks,
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: noise in bose headsets
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
I'm getting into this thread late but has the propagation mode
for the noise been identified? Does disconnection of p-leads at
the mags make a difference? Does the noise run up and down with
volume control setting on radios or intercom? Have victim systems
been temporarily operated from independent batteries to see if
noise goes away?
Bob . . .
At 07:39 AM 4/14/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
>The "R" in the plug number says that it is a resistor plug! Don't think you
>can now buy a shielded plug that isn't a resister. Could be that the
>resistor is bad and causing the noise. Check the gap, if it is too wide,
the
>spark will find the path of least resistance.
>
>Cy Galley - Chair,
>AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
>A Service Project of Chapter 75
>EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
>EAA Sport Pilot
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Richard Riley" <Richard@RILEY.NET>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: noise in bose headsets
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley
<Richard@Riley.net>
> >
> > OK, it's probably not applicable then. I had a very similar problem -
> > Bose
> > headsets, Lyc 540, ticking with RPM. But I had lightspeed electronic
> > ignitions. Klaus recommended that I go to resistance spark plug wires,
it
> > cured it completely. But I have no idea if it would work with mags.
> >
> > At 07:30 AM 4/13/05, you wrote:
> >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand"
> >><jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
> >>
> >>I should have made that more clear. I just have magnetos.
> >>
> >>Jeff
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>--
>
>
>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: How does one judge a battery on rental plane? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
A couple of years ago I saw an emergency portable attitude indicator for
a couple of hundred dollars that I believe ran on a 9v backup battery
for several hours. It was a solid state gyro with about 9 horizontal and
7 vertical LED's, not much larger than a couple of packs of cigarettes.
While it was intended to velcro onto the glareshield I though it would
make a fine replacement for an electric turn and bank.
Ken
BobsV35B@aol.com wrote:
>-->snip
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | noise in bose headsets |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Maybe everybody else can tell what's being described here, but I can't...
Just to be clear, does the volume of the clicking change with the volume
setting of either the radio or intercom (or any other audio device)?
Do either the volume, or frequency change with change in RPM?
Could (gu)estimate the frequency of the clicking?
If the frequency of the clicking doesn't change with RPM, it's unlikely a
magneto issue. Nor is it likely an alternator issue.
Maybe regulator noise? Does the frequency or volume of the clicking
change with electrical system load?
Could the clicking be strobe noise?
Is it evident with ALL electrical loads disabled?
Does the clicking happen with the engine off?
Let us know what you find.. Good luck!
Regards,
Matt-
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand"
> <jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
>
> The clicking is not change with RPM change or with volume up or down on
> the intercom.
>
> I have not tried disconnecting the P-leads, or running the headset power
> from independent batteries.
>
> I will try this next.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: noise in bose headsets
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> I'm getting into this thread late but has the propagation mode
> for the noise been identified? Does disconnection of p-leads at
> the mags make a difference? Does the noise run up and down with
> volume control setting on radios or intercom? Have victim systems
> been temporarily operated from independent batteries to see if
> noise goes away?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> At 07:39 AM 4/14/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>>
>>The "R" in the plug number says that it is a resistor plug! Don't think
>> you can now buy a shielded plug that isn't a resister. Could be that
>> the resistor is bad and causing the noise. Check the gap, if it is too
>> wide,
> the
>>spark will find the path of least resistance.
>>
>>Cy Galley - Chair,
>>AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
>>A Service Project of Chapter 75
>>EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
>>EAA Sport Pilot
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Richard Riley" <Richard@RILEY.NET>
>>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: noise in bose headsets
>>
>>
>> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley
> <Richard@Riley.net>
>> >
>> > OK, it's probably not applicable then. I had a very similar problem
>> - Bose
>> > headsets, Lyc 540, ticking with RPM. But I had lightspeed
>> electronic ignitions. Klaus recommended that I go to resistance
>> spark plug wires,
> it
>> > cured it completely. But I have no idea if it would work with
>> mags.
>> >
>> > At 07:30 AM 4/13/05, you wrote:
>> >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand"
>> >><jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
>> >>
>> >>I should have made that more clear. I just have magnetos.
>> >>
>> >>Jeff
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>
>>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> < Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
> < of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
> < exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
> < work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
> < despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
> < by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
> < minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
> < happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
> < then slip back into abject poverty. >
> < >
> < This is known as "bad luck". >
> < -Lazarus Long- >
> <------------------------------------------------------>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: noise in bose headsets |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 4/14/2005 10:01:00 A.M. Central Standard Time,
jhildebrand@crownequip.com writes:
The clicking is not change with RPM change or with volume up or down on the
intercom.
Good Morning Jeff,
What model of Bose headsets do you have? The very earliest were
sensitive to radar signals. When you were flying in the vicinity of a radar
site, you could hear clicking in the headsets. There was a fix for that,
but the Bose Tens have pretty much replaced the older units and they
do not have the radar problem.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: How does one judge a battery on rental plane? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 4/14/2005 10:04:27 A.M. Central Standard Time,
klehman@albedo.net writes:
A couple of years ago I saw an emergency portable attitude indicator for
a couple of hundred dollars that I believe ran on a 9v backup battery
for several hours. It was a solid state gyro with about 9 horizontal and
7 vertical LED's, not much larger than a couple of packs of cigarettes.
While it was intended to velcro onto the glareshield I though it would
make a fine replacement for an electric turn and bank.
Ken
Good Morning Ken,
In would love to see that. Any idea where it is available? It is amazing
what can be done with solid state devices. We would certainly hope that there
would be improvements in the last eighty years that would allow a better
product better than the T&B.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: How does one judge a battery on rental plane? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim's Shaw Mail" <jcorner@shaw.ca>
Take a look at http://www.pcflightsystems.com they still have the LED
unit as well as a new graphical display.
Jim Corner
On Apr 14, 2005, at 9:36 AM, BobsV35B@aol.com wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 4/14/2005 10:04:27 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> klehman@albedo.net writes:
>
> A couple of years ago I saw an emergency portable attitude indicator
> for
> a couple of hundred dollars that I believe ran on a 9v backup battery
> for several hours. It was a solid state gyro with about 9 horizontal
> and
> 7 vertical LED's, not much larger than a couple of packs of
> cigarettes.
> While it was intended to velcro onto the glareshield I though it would
> make a fine replacement for an electric turn and bank.
> Ken
>
>
> Good Morning Ken,
>
> In would love to see that. Any idea where it is available? It is
> amazing
> what can be done with solid state devices. We would certainly hope
> that there
> would be improvements in the last eighty years that would allow a
> better
> product better than the T&B.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Airpark LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8502
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | EGYRO: was How does one judge a battery on a rental |
plane?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: william mills <courierboy@earthlink.net>
Bob -
I was just at this site and think it's the outfit Ken is referring to:
http://www.pcflightsystems.com/
See the EGYRO at page bottom.
Bill
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>Good Morning Ken,
>
>In would love to see that. Any idea where it is available? It is amazing
>what can be done with solid state devices. We would certainly hope
>that there
>would be improvements in the last eighty years that would allow a better
>product better than the T&B.
>
>Happy Skies,
>
>Old Bob
>AKA
>Bob Siegfried
>Ancient Aviator
>Stearman N3977A
>Brookeridge Airpark LL22
>Downers Grove, IL 60516
>630 985-8502
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: EGYRO: was How does one judge a battery on a rental |
pl...
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 4/14/2005 10:55:51 A.M. Central Standard Time,
courierboy@earthlink.net writes:
I was just at this site and think it's the outfit Ken is referring to:
http://www.pcflightsystems.com/
See the EGYRO at page bottom.
Bill
Thank You Bill and all others who have told me about the site. It does
sound interesting. I hope they are at OshKosh this year.
Do Not Archive
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: noise in bose headsets |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "buck" <buckaroo_banzai@the-pentagon.com>
Jeff,
I have a similar problem in my Cozy. I've found that the antagonist is the
transponder. The transponder antenna is directly under the front seats and
the airplane is fiberglass.
Greg
----------------------------------------------
Original Message
From: "Jeff Hildebrand"<jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: noise in bose headsets
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand"
<jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
>
>The clicking is not change with RPM change or with volume up or down on the
>intercom.
>
>I have not tried disconnecting the P-leads, or running the headset power
>from independent batteries.
>
>I will try this next.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jeff
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
L.
>Nuckolls, III
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: noise in bose headsets
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>I'm getting into this thread late but has the propagation mode
>for the noise been identified? Does disconnection of p-leads at
>the mags make a difference? Does the noise run up and down with
>volume control setting on radios or intercom? Have victim systems
>been temporarily operated from independent batteries to see if
>noise goes away?
>
>Bob . . .
>
>
>At 07:39 AM 4/14/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>>
>>The "R" in the plug number says that it is a resistor plug! Don't think
you
>>can now buy a shielded plug that isn't a resister. Could be that the
>>resistor is bad and causing the noise. Check the gap, if it is too wide,
>the
>>spark will find the path of least resistance.
>>
>>Cy Galley - Chair,
>>AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
>>A Service Project of Chapter 75
>>EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
>>EAA Sport Pilot
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Richard Riley" <Richard@RILEY.NET>
>>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: noise in bose headsets
>>
>>
>> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley
><Richard@Riley.net>
>> >
>> > OK, it's probably not applicable then. I had a very similar problem -
>> > Bose
>> > headsets, Lyc 540, ticking with RPM. But I had lightspeed electronic
>> > ignitions. Klaus recommended that I go to resistance spark plug wires,
>it
>> > cured it completely. But I have no idea if it would work with mags.
>> >
>> > At 07:30 AM 4/13/05, you wrote:
>> >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand"
>> >><jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
>> >>
>> >>I should have made that more clear. I just have magnetos.
>> >>
>> >>Jeff
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>
>>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> < Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
> < of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
> < exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
> < work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
> < despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
> < by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
> < minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
> < happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
> < then slip back into abject poverty. >
> < >
> < This is known as "bad luck". >
> < -Lazarus Long- >
> <------------------------------------------------------>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
http://www.MyOwnEmail.com
Message 21
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| Subject: | EGYRO: was How does one judge a battery on a rental |
plane?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by:
I don't know but at first hand I think that for $900 more the Dynon 10A
offers lots more for the money.
Michele
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of william mills
> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:53 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: EGYRO: was How does one judge a battery on a
> rental plane?
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: william mills
> <courierboy@earthlink.net>
>
> Bob -
>
> I was just at this site and think it's the outfit Ken is referring to:
> http://www.pcflightsystems.com/
> See the EGYRO at page bottom.
>
> Bill
>
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
> >
> >Good Morning Ken,
> >
> >In would love to see that. Any idea where it is available? It is
> amazing
> >what can be done with solid state devices. We would certainly hope
> >that there
> >would be improvements in the last eighty years that would allow a better
> >product better than the T&B.
> >
> >Happy Skies,
> >
> >Old Bob
> >AKA
> >Bob Siegfried
> >Ancient Aviator
> >Stearman N3977A
> >Brookeridge Airpark LL22
> >Downers Grove, IL 60516
> >630 985-8502
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: EGYRO: was How does one judge a battery on a rental |
pl...
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
Good Afternoon All,
There was an AD published today concerning the Cessna model 680. Anybody
know what that airplane looks like or what it is called other than a model
680?
The AD concerns a problem that may cause the airplane to lose all four
cockpit displays.
I think I will stick with my needle and ball for a while.
_2005-08-03_ (http://ftp.atp.com/ADs/pdf/050803.pdf) 04/29/2005 Cessna
Aircraft Company To prevent a simultaneous loss of data from all four
cockpit
display units, and loss of primary navigation.
Do Not Archive
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: multiple grounds |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob@gmail.com>
Stein,
What do you mean by "solder sleeves" . . . I have a few shields I need
to terminate! Is this something you sell . . . couldn't find it on
your website?
Regards,
Bob Christensen
On 4/14/05, Stein Bruch <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>
> The answer is yes & no....
>
> "Most" of the grounds can be combined, but in the majority of intercoms and installations
you really need to be careful with the Microphone grounds in particular.
These are usually the grounds that the Mic Jack and PTT switches use,
and I've personally seen a number of "squealing" headsets caused by sharing the
same ground points for the Mic, Headset, Airframe and Intercom power jacks.
>
> One additional item that really helps out installation of Intercoms is to use
solder sleeves to terminate the shields. This also cleans up the installation
a LOT and is the way all the 'professional' shops do it.
>
> Just my 2 cents as usual (after installing a LOT of intercoms).
>
> Cheers,
> Stein Bruch
> RV-6's, Minneapolis
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: "Joe & Jan Connell" <jconnell@rconnect.com>
> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:02:05 -0500
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Joe & Jan Connell" <jconnell@rconnect.com>
> >
> >Thanks for all the ideas gentlemen. I'm installing a PM1200 intercom
> >in my RV-9A.
> >
> >Am I correct to assume the shields for the various subsystems can
> >be combined? In other words can the shields for the pilot's mic,
> >pilot's headphones, etc., all be combined together or do these
> >subassemblies need to be isolated from each other?
> >
> >Can all the shield grounds be combined to the main aircraft ground
> >coming out of the intercom?
> >
> >I think the answers are yes but I'm not sure if the aircraft ground to the
> >intercom can be connected to all the shields.
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Joe Connell
> >Stewartville, MN
> >
> >
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | noise in bose headsets |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand" <jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
The volume or frequency does not change based on RPM. I think it is still
there when the engine is off, but I will investigate.
The frequency is roughly every second.
I am not sure if the frequency changes with electrical load. I will
inspect.
Since it didn't happen when we had non-ANR headsets, I am assuming that it
coming through the ANR power supply. Is it right to assume this?
We have to independent busses, the ANR power is on BUS B. These are the
components on BUS B. GNS430, Rc Allen Attitude Indicator, CDI, digital
clock, and CD player. Are any of these known offenders? I think I can rule
out the CD player, because when I turn the power off, the clicking doesn't
change.
Next time I fly I will remove loads one by one.
Jeff Hildebrand
Lancair ES C-GSPH Winnipeg, MB
www.lancaires.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Prather [mailto:mprather@spro.net]
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: noise in bose headsets
Maybe everybody else can tell what's being described here, but I can't...
Just to be clear, does the volume of the clicking change with the volume
setting of either the radio or intercom (or any other audio device)?
Do either the volume, or frequency change with change in RPM?
Could (gu)estimate the frequency of the clicking?
If the frequency of the clicking doesn't change with RPM, it's unlikely a
magneto issue. Nor is it likely an alternator issue.
Maybe regulator noise? Does the frequency or volume of the clicking
change with electrical system load?
Could the clicking be strobe noise?
Is it evident with ALL electrical loads disabled?
Does the clicking happen with the engine off?
Let us know what you find.. Good luck!
Regards,
Matt-
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand"
> <jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
>
> The clicking is not change with RPM change or with volume up or down on
> the intercom.
>
> I have not tried disconnecting the P-leads, or running the headset power
> from independent batteries.
>
> I will try this next.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: noise in bose headsets
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> I'm getting into this thread late but has the propagation mode
> for the noise been identified? Does disconnection of p-leads at
> the mags make a difference? Does the noise run up and down with
> volume control setting on radios or intercom? Have victim systems
> been temporarily operated from independent batteries to see if
> noise goes away?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> At 07:39 AM 4/14/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>>
>>The "R" in the plug number says that it is a resistor plug! Don't think
>> you can now buy a shielded plug that isn't a resister. Could be that
>> the resistor is bad and causing the noise. Check the gap, if it is too
>> wide,
> the
>>spark will find the path of least resistance.
>>
>>Cy Galley - Chair,
>>AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
>>A Service Project of Chapter 75
>>EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
>>EAA Sport Pilot
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Richard Riley" <Richard@RILEY.NET>
>>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: noise in bose headsets
>>
>>
>> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley
> <Richard@Riley.net>
>> >
>> > OK, it's probably not applicable then. I had a very similar problem
>> - Bose
>> > headsets, Lyc 540, ticking with RPM. But I had lightspeed
>> electronic ignitions. Klaus recommended that I go to resistance
>> spark plug wires,
> it
>> > cured it completely. But I have no idea if it would work with
>> mags.
>> >
>> > At 07:30 AM 4/13/05, you wrote:
>> >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand"
>> >><jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
>> >>
>> >>I should have made that more clear. I just have magnetos.
>> >>
>> >>Jeff
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>
>>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> < Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
> < of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
> < exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
> < work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
> < despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
> < by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
> < minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
> < happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
> < then slip back into abject poverty. >
> < >
> < This is known as "bad luck". >
> < -Lazarus Long- >
> <------------------------------------------------------>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | noise in bose headsets |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand" <jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
I turn the transponder off next time and see if it is this.
Thanks,
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of buck
Subject: Re:RE: AeroElectric-List: noise in bose headsets
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "buck"
<buckaroo_banzai@the-pentagon.com>
Jeff,
I have a similar problem in my Cozy. I've found that the antagonist is the
transponder. The transponder antenna is directly under the front seats and
the airplane is fiberglass.
Greg
----------------------------------------------
Original Message
From: "Jeff Hildebrand"<jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: noise in bose headsets
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand"
<jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
>
>The clicking is not change with RPM change or with volume up or down on the
>intercom.
>
>I have not tried disconnecting the P-leads, or running the headset power
>from independent batteries.
>
>I will try this next.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jeff
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
L.
>Nuckolls, III
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: noise in bose headsets
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>I'm getting into this thread late but has the propagation mode
>for the noise been identified? Does disconnection of p-leads at
>the mags make a difference? Does the noise run up and down with
>volume control setting on radios or intercom? Have victim systems
>been temporarily operated from independent batteries to see if
>noise goes away?
>
>Bob . . .
>
>
>At 07:39 AM 4/14/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>>
>>The "R" in the plug number says that it is a resistor plug! Don't think
you
>>can now buy a shielded plug that isn't a resister. Could be that the
>>resistor is bad and causing the noise. Check the gap, if it is too wide,
>the
>>spark will find the path of least resistance.
>>
>>Cy Galley - Chair,
>>AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
>>A Service Project of Chapter 75
>>EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
>>EAA Sport Pilot
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Richard Riley" <Richard@RILEY.NET>
>>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: noise in bose headsets
>>
>>
>> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley
><Richard@Riley.net>
>> >
>> > OK, it's probably not applicable then. I had a very similar problem -
>> > Bose
>> > headsets, Lyc 540, ticking with RPM. But I had lightspeed electronic
>> > ignitions. Klaus recommended that I go to resistance spark plug wires,
>it
>> > cured it completely. But I have no idea if it would work with mags.
>> >
>> > At 07:30 AM 4/13/05, you wrote:
>> >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand"
>> >><jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
>> >>
>> >>I should have made that more clear. I just have magnetos.
>> >>
>> >>Jeff
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>
>>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> < Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
> < of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
> < exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
> < work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
> < despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
> < by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
> < minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
> < happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
> < then slip back into abject poverty. >
> < >
> < This is known as "bad luck". >
> < -Lazarus Long- >
> <------------------------------------------------------>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
http://www.MyOwnEmail.com
Message 26
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| Subject: | noise in bose headsets |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand" <jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
We have the Bose X headsets, they were bought new a couple months ago.
If this was fixed on the newer ones, then we don't have this.
Thanks,
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B@aol.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: noise in bose headsets
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 4/14/2005 10:01:00 A.M. Central Standard Time,
jhildebrand@crownequip.com writes:
The clicking is not change with RPM change or with volume up or down on
the
intercom.
Good Morning Jeff,
What model of Bose headsets do you have? The very earliest were
sensitive to radar signals. When you were flying in the vicinity of a
radar
site, you could hear clicking in the headsets. There was a fix for that,
but the Bose Tens have pretty much replaced the older units and they
do not have the radar problem.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: noise in bose headsets |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
Jeff Hildebrand wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand" <jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
>
> The volume or frequency does not change based on RPM. I think it is still
> there when the engine is off, but I will investigate.
>
> The frequency is roughly every second.
>
> I am not sure if the frequency changes with electrical load. I will
> inspect.
I had something similar happen in my Glasair.
It turned out to be the strobe power supply. Try turning off the
strobes and/or any type of flashing beacon or light source
with everything else on and see if that makes a difference.
If it does, as it did with mine, I fixed it with a simple
noise filter from Radio Shack (recommended by Bob):
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=270-051
The noise filters have 4 wires, a 12v and ground for the input
side connected to the 12v aircraft power source and the ground wire
going back to the aircraft common ground point, and a 12v and ground
on the output side connected to the 12v and ground
on the strobe power supply. The instructions on the
package show the proper way to install the filter.
I essentially added the filter in-line to the existing
wired connections. No more headset noise!
Hope this help you track down your problem,
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu
"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: noise in bose headsets |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Strobe lights are about once a second per FAR.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dj Merrill" <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: noise in bose headsets
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill
> <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
>
> Jeff Hildebrand wrote:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand"
>> <jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
>>
>> The volume or frequency does not change based on RPM. I think it is
>> still
>> there when the engine is off, but I will investigate.
>>
>> The frequency is roughly every second.
>>
>> I am not sure if the frequency changes with electrical load. I will
>> inspect.
>
> I had something similar happen in my Glasair.
> It turned out to be the strobe power supply. Try turning off the
> strobes and/or any type of flashing beacon or light source
> with everything else on and see if that makes a difference.
> If it does, as it did with mine, I fixed it with a simple
> noise filter from Radio Shack (recommended by Bob):
>
> http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=270-051
>
> The noise filters have 4 wires, a 12v and ground for the input
> side connected to the 12v aircraft power source and the ground wire
> going back to the aircraft common ground point, and a 12v and ground
> on the output side connected to the 12v and ground
> on the strobe power supply. The instructions on the
> package show the proper way to install the filter.
> I essentially added the filter in-line to the existing
> wired connections. No more headset noise!
>
> Hope this help you track down your problem,
>
> -Dj
>
> --
> Dj Merrill
> deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu
>
> "TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: EGYRO: was How does one judge a battery on |
a rental pl...
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com> a
rental pl...
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>Good Afternoon All,
>
>There was an AD published today concerning the Cessna model 680. Anybody
>know what that airplane looks like or what it is called other than a model
>680?
>
>The AD concerns a problem that may cause the airplane to lose all four
>cockpit displays.
>
>I think I will stick with my needle and ball for a while.
>
>_2005-08-03_ (http://ftp.atp.com/ADs/pdf/050803.pdf) 04/29/2005 Cessna
>Aircraft Company To prevent a simultaneous loss of data from all four
>cockpit
>display units, and loss of primary navigation.
The Cessna 680 is the Citation Sovereign:
http://sovereign.cessna.com/home.chtml
http://www.netjets.com/Fleet/Cessna_Citation_Sovereign.asp
It has a latest generation Honeywell Epic avionics suite that has had
a lot of problems on many different aircraft programs. There have
been more than one instance of problems on all cockpit displays
(except standby instruments, which are completely independent from
the main displays).
Sovereign cockpit photo:
http://sovereign.cessna.com/avionics.chtml
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: How does one judge a battery on rental plane? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:55 AM 4/14/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
><lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
>Why not ask to see the maintenance log and see when it was last replaced?
>
>Friends are like angels who lift us to our feet
>when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly....unknown
That's good anecdotal data . . . but the log books won't show
how many times it's been run flat or how long it stayed flat
when the master was left on. There are a number of little
reassuring things one could ask about . . . but nothing
beats pouring out all the electrons and counting them . . .
or having your own airplane and KNOWING how well the battery
has been maintained.
>Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up
> >><kennethward@peoplepc.com>
> >>
> >>Short of carrying some kind of sophisticated battery load tester to the
> >>FBO when renting a plane or never flying until I complete my Aeroelectric
> >>connection compliant homebuilt, is there some kind of valid quick & dirty
> >>check I can add to my checklists that would provide some confidence I
> >>wouldn't be authoring a "dark & stormy night" story?
Nope.
> >>
> >>Currently, I am limited to the following to gain confidence in a bird (not
> >>complete checklist, just a summary);
> >>Rent from most reputable FBO that will let me touch their equipment,
> >>Verify everything works before engine start, lights aren't dim, flap
> >>motors sound normal speed,
> >>Big wires (if accessible) aren't loose,
> >>Engine cranks fairly briskly,
> >>Ammeter and voltmeter (if equipped) are in normal range well before
> >>run-up.
> >>
> >>Some day when we fly home late from my Dad's, and the kid asks what
> >>happens if we lose power I'd rather say more than "you hold the flashlight
> >>until we land", I'd like to add 'it shouldn't because I checked..."
Yup, you can get the warm fuzzies from all of those
indications and actions and what does this tell you? You're
not likely to have specific knowledge of how long you can operate
in the endurance mode with consumption reduced to the bare
minimum . . . and it's a SURE bet that you won't be able to
fly battery-only for duration of fuel aboard if the alternator
dies early in the leg. Except for VFR-day and exceptional VFR-night
ops, alternator failure is bound to drive your pucker factor up
mostly for what you don't know and cannot know when it's a rental.
Even the FBO and his mechanic may be unaware of a battery discharge
issue while the airplane was off home base.
I treat every airplane like I may have to terminate the flight
while operating in the J-3 mode. It's the one thing you CAN
do for having a personal Plan-B irrespective of how well the
airplane is equipped and/or maintained. For most folks an
alternator failure in a spam can is the first step in a tense
if not emergency mode of operation unless they're personally
prepared and outfitted to live with it as a simple maintenance
issue.
Bob . . .
Message 31
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| Subject: | noise in bose headsets |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:55 AM 4/14/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand"
><jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
>
>The clicking is not change with RPM change or with volume up or down on the
>intercom.
>
>I have not tried disconnecting the P-leads, or running the headset power
>from independent batteries.
>
>I will try this next.
>
>Thanks,
If the noise doesn't change with rpm then it's not p-leads.
Isolated battery supply will tell you if it's coming in through
the bus power.
Bob .. .
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: How does one judge a battery on rental |
plane?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
plane?
At 09:25 AM 4/14/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
>A cigarette plug with an expanded band or digital display voltmeter might be
>helpful. Most installed meters in factory airplanes are not sensitive enough
>to produce proper warnings.
>
> A quick check of the battery voltage might be very enlightening. If the
>voltage is below 12, you probably have a bad cell. If the voltage doesn't
>go up into the 13+ range on starting, you have a bad charging system. If it
>goes over about 14.5 the battery will soon be cooked to death. If the
>voltage at any time drops back in the 12s find a place to land as the
>charging system just quit.
>
>Bob can probably pin down these critical voltages to a more precise values.
The most precise voltmeter in the world will not help
you predict how much energy the battery holds, it's only
useful as a real-time display of how fast the voltage is
falling given present loads.
In light of poor list of options on certified ships as to
how power is utilized and with no real Plan-B for alternator
out operations, I would probably opt for going to black-panel
in cruising flight. If the alternator quits, turn everything
off until time to descend and then bring the battery back up
with everything off than I could get along without.
Bob . . .
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