Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:10 AM - Re: El-Cheeso 9v Battery tests (Harley)
2. 05:19 AM - Re: El-Cheeso 9v Battery tests (Harley)
3. 07:09 AM - Re: Low voltage and high voltage (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 07:25 AM - Re: El-Cheeso 9v Battery tests (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
5. 07:51 AM - Re: El-Cheeso 9v Battery tests (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 08:33 AM - Re: El-Cheeso 9v Battery tests (Harley)
7. 08:38 AM - Re: El-Cheeso 9v Battery tests (Eric M. Jones)
8. 09:33 AM - Re: Shunts & stuff (Leo Corbalis)
9. 05:32 PM - Re: basic reasoning for system architecture (Larry E. James)
10. 05:39 PM - Radio Noise Redux (William Yamokoski)
11. 07:17 PM - Re: Radio Noise Redux (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 07:21 PM - Re: Radio Noise Redux (Dave Nellis)
13. 07:40 PM - Re: Radio Noise Redux (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 07:52 PM - El-Cheeso batteries follow up tests . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 08:11 PM - Re: El-Cheeso batteries follow up tests . . . (Brian Kraut)
16. 08:26 PM - Re: Radio Noise Redux (n801bh@netzero.com)
17. 09:07 PM - Re: Radio Noise Redux (John D. Heath)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: El-Cheeso 9v Battery tests |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley <harley@agelesswings.com>
Very interesting , Bob! I feel a lot better about buying the batteries
with my local grocery store chain name on them (Wegman's)for half the
big name price!
Any possibility that that difference may have been due to one extra bad
Eveready, and one extra good Kroger? Wonder how they'd do if a random
number were averaged (not asking you to do it...just wondering! <G>)
And, has anyone else ever done this (other than the manufacturer <G>)
and posted comparisons between other brands as well such as Duracell and
Ray-O-Vac (had very little luck with Ray-O-Vac myself...seems they leak
a lot) or even the so-called better versions of the batteries, like the
Eveready Gold?
Harley Dixon
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>
>Took a brand new Eveready Gold 9v out of the package
>and tested it against the house brand 9v battery that
>cost me 1/3rd as much. Here's the plots:
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/El-Cheeso_Battery_Test_2.jpg
>
>The red plot is the Eveready.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: El-Cheeso 9v Battery tests |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley <harley@agelesswings.com>
Bob...
>>or even the so-called better versions of the batteries, like the
Eveready Gold?<<
Well, now that I'm a bit more awake and have had my cup of coffee (well,
half of it <G>) I see that that WAS an Eveready gold that you used!
Hmmm...not very impressive at all...but they have a pretty label.<G>
Harley
Harley wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley <harley@agelesswings.com>
>
>Very interesting , Bob! I feel a lot better about buying the batteries
>with my local grocery store chain name on them (Wegman's)for half the
>big name price!
>
>Any possibility that that difference may have been due to one extra bad
>Eveready, and one extra good Kroger? Wonder how they'd do if a random
>number were averaged (not asking you to do it...just wondering! <G>)
>
>And, has anyone else ever done this (other than the manufacturer <G>)
>and posted comparisons between other brands as well such as Duracell and
>Ray-O-Vac (had very little luck with Ray-O-Vac myself...seems they leak
>a lot) or even the so-called better versions of the batteries, like the
>Eveready Gold?
>
>Harley Dixon
>
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>>
>>
>>Took a brand new Eveready Gold 9v out of the package
>>and tested it against the house brand 9v battery that
>>cost me 1/3rd as much. Here's the plots:
>>
>>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/El-Cheeso_Battery_Test_2.jpg
>>
>>The red plot is the Eveready.
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Low voltage and high voltage |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:55 PM 5/4/2005 +1000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Barrow"
><bobbarrow10@hotmail.com>
>
>
>Because I was not going to have any aerials in my wings I figured it would
>be safe to run the high voltage (strobe coax) and low voltage power wires
>(nav lights etc) together in the one conduit. But now some-one tells me that
>high voltage and low voltage do not good bedfellows make (noise problem).
>
>I've finished the wings now and it will be difficult to instal a new run of
>seperate grommets for the coax cable (difficult, but not impossible). Is it
>really advisable to seperate the coax, and if so...by what distance.
Don't worry about it. The "high voltage" problem is taken care of by
the shielding on the strobe fixture cable. The BIGGEST problem is
magnetic coupling which is taken care of by making the strobe cable
a twisted trio of wires.
Probability of coupling significant noise energy into the SYSTEM
via the wires which normally exist in the wings (lighting and
pitot heat) is extremely low. Coax cables are also quite resistant
to any form of noise coupling. Most strobe noises in are directly
radiated from strobe light fixtures into the antenna at the
wingtip. This is HARD to fix. Most wingtip antennas are VOR
system antennas where one very seldom listens to the audio
so it doesn't represent an operational problem. Just in case you
DO use a VOR station to receive advisories or as a COM remote,
you can turn off the strobes for the short duration of the
communication. Strobe noise does not degrade VOR nav function.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | El-Cheeso 9v Battery tests |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
Have you done this with the newer Duracell Max, and the new energizers?
I would be interested in knowing if the premium we pay for those is
worth it?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: El-Cheeso 9v Battery tests
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
Took a brand new Eveready Gold 9v out of the package
and tested it against the house brand 9v battery that
cost me 1/3rd as much. Here's the plots:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/El-Cheeso_Battery_Test_2.jpg
The red plot is the Eveready.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: El-Cheeso 9v Battery tests |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:09 AM 5/4/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley <harley@agelesswings.com>
>
>Very interesting , Bob! I feel a lot better about buying the batteries
>with my local grocery store chain name on them (Wegman's)for half the
>big name price!
>
>Any possibility that that difference may have been due to one extra bad
>Eveready, and one extra good Kroger? Wonder how they'd do if a random
>number were averaged (not asking you to do it...just wondering! <G>)
>
>And, has anyone else ever done this (other than the manufacturer <G>)
>and posted comparisons between other brands as well such as Duracell and
>Ray-O-Vac (had very little luck with Ray-O-Vac myself...seems they leak
>a lot) or even the so-called better versions of the batteries, like the
>Eveready Gold?
>
>Harley Dixon
Good questions. Yes, lots of folks have been doing these kinds of
tests. One Lister gave us a link yesterday:
http://www.zbattery.com/zbattery/batteryinfo.html
I did an article on the topic a few years ago at:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/AA_Bat_Test.pdf
After thinking through the cell manufacturing and marketing
process, I've concluded that cells are much like soft drinks.
VERY little in the way of raw materials and long on
manufacturing machines, marketing and transportation
costs. Most of cost to bring a cell to your point
of sale has little to do with cell quality. I'm told that
many private brand cells are made by the same
folk that do the nationally advertised brands . . . which
makes sense too. Why set up a factory to address a tiny
fraction of 1% of the total market. There's no practical
reason or advantage in producing a good-better-best array of
products.Buy in bulk with new labels from the 'big' guys
and save yourself a lot of trouble, cost and you can offer
an exemplar product to boot!
I'll continue to look at various battery cell opportunities.
If any of you have a Kroger grocery store affiliate in the
neighborhood, they're currently running a $1 sale on a 4-pack
of AA alkaline cells . . . a very good price for a good battery.
Interestingly enough, their 8-pack and 12-pack offerings are
not on sale. So the pegs for the larger packages are full,
the 4-pack pegs are empty. But the sale goes through 5-24
and you can usually get a 'rain' check on out-of-stock items
before the sale ends. I'm waiting for the pegs to fill up
at my local stores so I can buy another $10 worth . . .
Caution . . . be wary of special trips to the store
to get this offer. The $time$ you'll spend to do this
may more than wash out the savings on the cells you
do buy . . . unless you're looking for $100 worth or
something like that. These cells have an exceptional
shelf life so they're worth grabbing up in quantity
when the opportunity presents itself.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: El-Cheeso 9v Battery tests |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley <harley@agelesswings.com>
<<I'm told that many private brand cells are made by the same folk that
do the nationally advertised brands >>
I can certainly attest to that. I spent 32 years working for the
pharmaceutical company that made and marketed Desenex foot powder, among
many other products both over-the-counter and prescription.
(Pennwalt/Fisons/Celltech)
I specifically mention the Desenex, because we used to fill orders for
Wal-Mart's athlete's foot powder as well.
We would run half of a batch of the Desenex, shut down at lunch and
while eating, the line people would change over the containers on the
line to Wal-Mart's. After lunch, we would continue packaging...same
product from the same batch! Only difference was the container.
Half of it sold at $4.99 a can as Desenex, and the other half at $1.99
as Wal-Mart!
BTW...while I'm on this topic and if any of you were in the army in the
1960s and 70s, the little olive drab pepper type shaker cans of foot
powder you got in the service was Desenex. Same deal as Wal-Mart, but
reversed...when we won an army contract, we'd change the line over to
the little OD cans, but fill them with Desenex, without the perfume.
Sold them to the army with one fewer ingredient in 2 color cans for five
times as much as the same amount of Desenex would have sold for in the
bright yellow cans. And we were the low bidder! <G>
Harley
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>At 08:09 AM 5/4/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley <harley@agelesswings.com>
>>
>>Very interesting , Bob! I feel a lot better about buying the batteries
>>with my local grocery store chain name on them (Wegman's)for half the
>>big name price!
>>
>>Any possibility that that difference may have been due to one extra bad
>>Eveready, and one extra good Kroger? Wonder how they'd do if a random
>>number were averaged (not asking you to do it...just wondering! <G>)
>>
>>And, has anyone else ever done this (other than the manufacturer <G>)
>>and posted comparisons between other brands as well such as Duracell and
>>Ray-O-Vac (had very little luck with Ray-O-Vac myself...seems they leak
>>a lot) or even the so-called better versions of the batteries, like the
>>Eveready Gold?
>>
>>Harley Dixon
>>
>>
>
> Good questions. Yes, lots of folks have been doing these kinds of
> tests. One Lister gave us a link yesterday:
>
>http://www.zbattery.com/zbattery/batteryinfo.html
>
> I did an article on the topic a few years ago at:
>
>http://aeroelectric.com/articles/AA_Bat_Test.pdf
>
> After thinking through the cell manufacturing and marketing
> process, I've concluded that cells are much like soft drinks.
> VERY little in the way of raw materials and long on
> manufacturing machines, marketing and transportation
> costs. Most of cost to bring a cell to your point
> of sale has little to do with cell quality. I'm told that
> many private brand cells are made by the same
> folk that do the nationally advertised brands . . . which
> makes sense too. Why set up a factory to address a tiny
> fraction of 1% of the total market. There's no practical
> reason or advantage in producing a good-better-best array of
> products.Buy in bulk with new labels from the 'big' guys
> and save yourself a lot of trouble, cost and you can offer
> an exemplar product to boot!
>
> I'll continue to look at various battery cell opportunities.
> If any of you have a Kroger grocery store affiliate in the
> neighborhood, they're currently running a $1 sale on a 4-pack
> of AA alkaline cells . . . a very good price for a good battery.
> Interestingly enough, their 8-pack and 12-pack offerings are
> not on sale. So the pegs for the larger packages are full,
> the 4-pack pegs are empty. But the sale goes through 5-24
> and you can usually get a 'rain' check on out-of-stock items
> before the sale ends. I'm waiting for the pegs to fill up
> at my local stores so I can buy another $10 worth . . .
>
> Caution . . . be wary of special trips to the store
> to get this offer. The $time$ you'll spend to do this
> may more than wash out the savings on the cells you
> do buy . . . unless you're looking for $100 worth or
> something like that. These cells have an exceptional
> shelf life so they're worth grabbing up in quantity
> when the opportunity presents itself.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | RE: El-Cheeso 9v Battery tests |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R."
<LloydDR@wernerco.com>
>Have you done this with the newer Duracell Max, and the new energizers?
>I would be interested in knowing if the premium we pay for those is
>worth it?
Batteries--
There are many ways of determining the "Best" battery for an application.
The most common are:
1) Actual cost per amp-hour;
2) Total useable energy;
3) Price.
But a battery and its application are complementary. There is no "best"
battery any more than there is a "best" airplane. The generic factors in
this equation are:
1) Expected usage schedule;
2) Weight;
3) Rechargeable or not;
4) Temperature;
5) Depth of cycle;
6) Disposal;
7) Spillage hazards;
8) Flammability;
9) Reliability....
....and uncountable other considerations. Is the tested battery the same
construction and ingredients from year to year? Who knows? If I were making
batteries, I'd issue a new revision every week.
A Google search of "battery comparison" yields a treasure trove of
information.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Shunts & stuff |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
Be cheap. I have a GRT EIS too. After a flight of an hour, turn off all the
extra stuff transponder, strobes etc. The next day turn on the master
switch. Turn off everything else (pull fuses if necessary) and read the EIS
voltage. Set that as the lower limit. Try it out. If you get low volt alarms
at idle set it a smidge lower so the alarm stops. Landing lites on final
should be included in the test. Now when the alarm comes ON your alternator
is not charging enough. "Houston - we have a problem". One less clock on
the panel to watch.
Leo Corbalis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Shunts & stuff
>>
>>I posted a question about this a while back and got no response so I'll
>>ask
>>smaller groups of questions instead.
>>
>>I have an EIS engine monitor from Grand Rapids Technologies. It contains
>>all required info I need except current flow.
>>>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: basic reasoning for system architecture |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry E. James" <larry@ncproto.com>
>What am I missing ??
Not a thing I can see. My recommendation?
Go with Z-11, rear mounted battery, 2AWG feeders
to the front. Install battery in simple tray that
captures the footprint. Strap it down with two, 2"
web-straps and nylon buckles. If you need to upsize
the battery later, it's really easy to do. The battery
can lay down or stand on end. I'd position it to drop
the height above the mounting surface to a
minimum, i.e.
lay on side. I don't think you need two. Try a 24
a.h.
battery to start.
Z-13 is an easy upgrade later, so is adding a second
battery or upsizing the first battery. You're going
to have a system with no more switches than the
present
certified fleet with much more attractive options.
Bob . . .
Thanks Bob,
So I have now narrowed the field to Z-11, Z-12, and Z-13 :-)
I can eliminate Z-11 now because now that my head is into
the wiring thing; I want to do the job the way I want it
...... no sense in coming back later to change it. I have
switched from my original dual battery / single alternator
configuration based on the reasoning expressed in this
thread and a discussion I had with Bill at B&C. He was very
helpful (and patient) and made a few more points that I had
not considered:
1) if a second battery is my backup; it has a limited time
of endurance (albeit plenty of time to get on the ground)
2) a second alternator has an unlimited time of endurance
3) a second alternator (SD-8) saves 12 lbs over the second
battery
4) the SD-8 puts out enough to power any essential
electrical requirements - although it will be "noisy" power
and radios may not work as well
5) battery failure (open battery) is probably the least
likely or known source of electrical system failure (my
words, but true to the meaning)
So, I'm liking the idea of a single battery / dual
alternator configuration with the second alternator being
the SD-8. Pretty tidy little package and you have already
published a schematic (Z-13). The only issue I know of that
is left is engine ignition. I'm currently planning on one
"magneto" Lasar and one "electronic" E-mag or P-mag ?? Are
there any gotchas in here ??
cheers,
Larry
Message 10
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| Subject: | Radio Noise Redux |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk@lakemichigancollege.edu>
Ok folks, here's the story...
Been dealing with noise on transmission from my MicroAir 760. I have
the following observations:
Only occurs on transmission
Occurs no matter what headset or jacks (pilot/copilot) combination I use
At low rpm, sounds like a machine gun. Add a little rpm , the machine
gun gets faster and maybe a little higher pitched. Keep adding rpm and
the gun gets too fast to make out individual noises...gets to be a big
blur
Putting my alternator breaker/switch in the off position has no effect
Individually turning off everything I can and still maintian engine
running has no effect
Connecting radio power to an otherwise empty always-hot battery bus has
no effect
Using a separate 12v battery as radio power, i.e., getting out of the
aircraft electrical system, makes the problem disappear.
My electrical system is Bob's two battery/one alternator system
I have a fuel-injected subaru engine and Quinti electrical prop. I
have not checked spark plugs or plug wires yet.
Any thoughts on possible sources of this noise? I'm about ready to
just keep a goodly supply of batteries on hand and just use the radio
that way :)
Thanks very much for any ideas.
Bill Yamokoski, N4970Y
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Noise Redux |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:38 PM 5/4/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Yamokoski"
><yamokosk@lakemichigancollege.edu>
>
>Ok folks, here's the story...
>
>Been dealing with noise on transmission from my MicroAir 760. I have
>the following observations:
>
>Only occurs on transmission
>
>Occurs no matter what headset or jacks (pilot/copilot) combination I use
>
>At low rpm, sounds like a machine gun. Add a little rpm , the machine
>gun gets faster and maybe a little higher pitched. Keep adding rpm and
>the gun gets too fast to make out individual noises...gets to be a big
>blur
>
>Putting my alternator breaker/switch in the off position has no effect
>
>Individually turning off everything I can and still maintian engine
>running has no effect
>
>Connecting radio power to an otherwise empty always-hot battery bus has
>no effect
>
>Using a separate 12v battery as radio power, i.e., getting out of the
>aircraft electrical system, makes the problem disappear.
>
>My electrical system is Bob's two battery/one alternator system
>
>I have a fuel-injected subaru engine and Quinti electrical prop. I
>have not checked spark plugs or plug wires yet.
>
>Any thoughts on possible sources of this noise? I'm about ready to
>just keep a goodly supply of batteries on hand and just use the radio
>that way :)
>Thanks very much for any ideas.
Sounds like ignition noise getting into the mic audio. Try
pushing the mic hi leads out of their pins on the back of the
radio (pins 1 and 3 assuming you're using both). Key up the
radio with mic audio leads disconnected and see if the noise
goes away.
I suspect it will. Have you insulated the mic and headset jacks
from airframe ground? See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/s890-1.jpg
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Noise Redux |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Nellis <truflite@yahoo.com>
Bill,
We had a similar problem with our club 182. It would
make the VOR go inop. We had an avionics shop look at
it and they put a capacitor across the field
terminal(?) on the alternator and ground, I believe.
Fixed it right up. Might ask your favorite radio shop
about it.
Dave Nellis
--- William Yamokoski
<yamokosk@lakemichigancollege.edu> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William
> Yamokoski" <yamokosk@lakemichigancollege.edu>
>
> Ok folks, here's the story...
>
> Been dealing with noise on transmission from my
> MicroAir 760. I have
> the following observations:
>
> Only occurs on transmission
>
> Occurs no matter what headset or jacks
> (pilot/copilot) combination I use
>
> At low rpm, sounds like a machine gun. Add a
> little rpm , the machine
> gun gets faster and maybe a little higher pitched.
> Keep adding rpm and
> the gun gets too fast to make out individual
> noises...gets to be a big
> blur
>
> Putting my alternator breaker/switch in the off
> position has no effect
>
> Individually turning off everything I can and still
> maintian engine
> running has no effect
>
> Connecting radio power to an otherwise empty
> always-hot battery bus has
> no effect
>
> Using a separate 12v battery as radio power, i.e.,
> getting out of the
> aircraft electrical system, makes the problem
> disappear.
>
> My electrical system is Bob's two battery/one
> alternator system
>
> I have a fuel-injected subaru engine and Quinti
> electrical prop. I
> have not checked spark plugs or plug wires yet.
>
> Any thoughts on possible sources of this noise?
> I'm about ready to
> just keep a goodly supply of batteries on hand and
> just use the radio
> that way :)
> Thanks very much for any ideas.
>
> Bill Yamokoski, N4970Y
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Noise Redux |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:20 PM 5/4/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Nellis <truflite@yahoo.com>
>
>Bill,
>
>We had a similar problem with our club 182. It would
>make the VOR go inop. We had an avionics shop look at
>it and they put a capacitor across the field
>terminal(?) on the alternator and ground, I believe.
>Fixed it right up. Might ask your favorite radio shop
>about it.
he says it's still there with the alternator off . . .and
it changes rate with engine rpm. The "machine gun" reference
sounds more like ignition than anything associated with
the alternator.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | El-Cheeso batteries follow up tests . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
Ran a second name-brand 9v and a second house brand battery
over the CBA-II to get the data. Here's the plots:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/El-Cheeso_Battery_Test_3.jpg
If you save this image to your hard drive and then view it
outside your browser (or dump it to printer) you can read the
fine text better.
The pair of house brand (Krogers) were in the same ballpark
while a Panasonic and Eveready Gold 9v batteries gave up at
about 2/3 the capacity.
Now, these tests were run at 100 mA which is REAL hard on
9v batteries. It may be that a similar collection of batteries
would come out closer in capacity if the loads were lighter
and more in line with the way 9v batteries are usually loaded.
Like 10-20 mA. This may be a case of all the examples having
about the same chemical capacity but the Krogers having lower
internal resistance (I'll go measure that tomorrow) such that
they do a better job at high rate discharge. In any case,
the notion that a battery needs to have a recognized name
to be considered for your needs is not backed up by the
experiment described above.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | El-Cheeso batteries follow up tests . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
Hmmm, now that you have killed a bunch of batteries how many of the more
economical ones do you have to use a year to make the experiment break even?
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: El-Cheeso batteries follow up tests . . .
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<b.nuckolls@cox.net>
Ran a second name-brand 9v and a second house brand battery
over the CBA-II to get the data. Here's the plots:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/El-Cheeso_Battery_Test_3.jpg
If you save this image to your hard drive and then view it
outside your browser (or dump it to printer) you can read the
fine text better.
The pair of house brand (Krogers) were in the same ballpark
while a Panasonic and Eveready Gold 9v batteries gave up at
about 2/3 the capacity.
Now, these tests were run at 100 mA which is REAL hard on
9v batteries. It may be that a similar collection of batteries
would come out closer in capacity if the loads were lighter
and more in line with the way 9v batteries are usually loaded.
Like 10-20 mA. This may be a case of all the examples having
about the same chemical capacity but the Krogers having lower
internal resistance (I'll go measure that tomorrow) such that
they do a better job at high rate discharge. In any case,
the notion that a battery needs to have a recognized name
to be considered for your needs is not backed up by the
experiment described above.
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Noise Redux |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
electrical system, makes the problem disappear.
My electrical system is Bob's two battery/one alternator system
I have a fuel-injected subaru engine and Quinti electrical prop. I
have not checked spark plugs or plug wires yet.
Any thoughts on possible sources of this noise? I'm about ready to
just keep a goodly supply of batteries on hand and just use the radio
that way :)
Thanks very much for any ideas.
Bill Yamokoski, N4970Y
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
I will chime in here. After 60 hours of flying without any noise in my electrical
system I was experimenting with different spark plug heat ranges for my motor.
The local parts store didn't have any Champion RC9YC plugs so they crossed
over that number to a NGK plug. Motor ran fine but the noise in the intercom
was extreme. The NGK plugs were clearly marked R for resistor but I now know they
didn't surpress ingition noise. I took them back and got some Champion RC12YC
ones like I took out and installed them. Walla,, the noise was gone again.
Bosch, AC or other plugs might have been ok too but I happened to get NGK's.
I don't work or even prefer Champions but this unusual test did suggest a bad
thing. I am running a V-8 Ford, MSD ignition, yada, yada, yada,. My suggestion
would be to spend a few bucks and change wires and plugs to experiment.
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Noise Redux |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" <Alto_Q@direcway.com>
Secondary Ignition, Spark plug wire arching to ground, etc.
John D. Heath
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk@lakemichigancollege.edu>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio Noise Redux
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Yamokoski"
> <yamokosk@lakemichigancollege.edu>
>
> Ok folks, here's the story...
>
> Been dealing with noise on transmission from my MicroAir 760. I have
> the following observations:
>
> Only occurs on transmission
>
> Occurs no matter what headset or jacks (pilot/copilot) combination I use
>
> At low rpm, sounds like a machine gun. Add a little rpm , the machine
> gun gets faster and maybe a little higher pitched. Keep adding rpm and
> the gun gets too fast to make out individual noises...gets to be a big
> blur
>
> Putting my alternator breaker/switch in the off position has no effect
>
> Individually turning off everything I can and still maintian engine
> running has no effect
>
> Connecting radio power to an otherwise empty always-hot battery bus has
> no effect
>
> Using a separate 12v battery as radio power, i.e., getting out of the
> aircraft electrical system, makes the problem disappear.
>
> My electrical system is Bob's two battery/one alternator system
>
> I have a fuel-injected subaru engine and Quinti electrical prop. I
> have not checked spark plugs or plug wires yet.
>
> Any thoughts on possible sources of this noise? I'm about ready to
> just keep a goodly supply of batteries on hand and just use the radio
> that way :)
> Thanks very much for any ideas.
>
> Bill Yamokoski, N4970Y
>
>
>
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