Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:09 AM - Re: El-Cheeso batteries follow up tests . . . (Chuck Jensen)
2. 08:04 AM - Re: El-Cheeso batteries follow up tests . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 08:11 AM - Re: El-Cheeso batteries follow up tests . . . (Norbert P. Hoffmann)
4. 08:19 AM - Re: El-Cheeso batteries follow up tests . . . (BobsV35B@aol.com)
5. 08:26 AM - Re: Split beads ()
6. 09:14 AM - Re: Battery contactor S701-1 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 09:19 AM - Re: El-Cheeso batteries follow up tests . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 10:42 AM - Re: SD-8 and No Battery (210flyer)
9. 10:54 AM - Re: El-Cheeso batteries follow up tests . . . (Chuck Jensen)
10. 01:03 PM - Re: TLA (Eric M. Jones)
11. 01:27 PM - Can you run 914/Airmaste in feather? (Ronald J. Parigoris)
12. 05:51 PM - Re: Re: TLA (Prue Motorgliders)
13. 08:55 PM - Re: Re: TLA (Rick Girard)
14. 09:25 PM - Re: Re: SD-8 and No Battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | El-Cheeso batteries follow up tests . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
I'm 30 years out of the college experience and I'm still working toward breakeven.
However, OJT seems to pay back profit the next day.
Chuck
Do Not Archive
Educational endeavors almost never 'break even' until you share
what is learned as a teacher -or- apply what is learned toward elegant
solutions. You spend a ton of $time$ going to college . . . and
when you get out, you're WAY below break even. It's what
you do with the knowledge and skills afterward that determines
the return on investment. I treat my career as an ongoing
educational process that demands a continuous investment in $time$
for learning. I carry around a lot of data that may never be tapped
in a design task. So it seems the best use of any knowledge is to
share it with as many folks as possible. Knowledge is the one
commodity that does not diminish in value the more it is shared.
Being able to share those data with folks here on the list is the
first opportunity to reap benefits from the investment. As to
application of this information into future design efforts,
who knows? But like data store in any library, you can't tap
the information contained in a book if the book is not on the
shelf waiting to be read.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | El-Cheeso batteries follow up tests . . |
.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
.
At 09:07 AM 5/11/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
>I'm 30 years out of the college experience and I'm still working toward
>breakeven. However, OJT seems to pay back profit the next day.
>
>Chuck
I give up. I'm only on my second cup of coffee this morning. What's OJT?
I've added some more test articles to the 9v battery experiment. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/9vBatteryTests.jpg
I think I've flogged enough batteries to death for now. My conclusions
based on what we know right now is that there is reason to be skeptical
of superlatives like "ultra", "max", "new and improved", etc. when
it comes to batteries (and probably most other products).
The tests conducted with the array of 9v batteries featured in the
experiment indicate that there is little practical difference in
the performance of the various products tested. Further, the least
expensive of these was equal to or better than the "high priced spread".
If anyone encounters a house brand cell in flashlight or 9v packages
that they would like to have tested, send me one or two and I'll
add their data to the library of tests already conducted and supply
it folks here on the List.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: El-Cheeso batteries follow up tests . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Norbert P. Hoffmann" <norberthoffmann1@alice-dsl.de>
>
> I give up. I'm only on my second cup of coffee this morning. What's OJT?
>
On Job Training ???
Norbert
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: El-Cheeso batteries follow up tests . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 5/11/2005 10:07:23 A.M. Central Standard Time,
b.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
I give up. I'm only on my second cup of coffee this morning. What's OJT?
On Job Training
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco@comcast.net>
Subject: Split beads
<<Hiya, I have been mulling over the split bead thing since your earlier
post. I had to aquire a 2nd class fcc lic in 66, forgotten most of the
stuff. cant figure what this is or where you would put them, can you give me
some details, maybe a pix? charlie heathco>>
5/11/2005
Hello Charlie, I am a bit embarassed to expose my lack of sophistication is
solving my number one VHF comm machine gun noise when transmitting on
certain frequencies. Some comments:
1) I am not certain that I solved it -- true, it is gone and that happened
after I installed the split beads, but until I remove them one by one and
the noise comes back I won't know for sure that the beads were the solution.
2) Even if I prove that the beads, or a particular bead, were the solution I
won't know for sure what the cause of the noise was. Radiation from the
antenna getting into the audio system is my suspicion. The jacks for the
pilot's headset are right behind the copilot's seatback and the Archer
antenna for the number one VHF comm is on the inside of the composite
fuselage just a couple of feet behind the copilot's seat.
3) I have reason to believe, but am not sure, that while the machine gun
noise was in my earphone's side tone while transmitting on certain
frequencies, the transmissions themselves were going out clearly.
4) There are just bushels of ferrite beads around (check with Google). They
come in a dazzling array of sizes and materials to accomplish all sorts of
exotic things for a wide variety of frequencies. Some of them are split
which makes it easy to install them on existing wiring.
5) Since I knew nothing about this subject (other than the ferrite toroids
that I used on the copper tape antennas that I made from an RST kit for my
airplane) I basically took a dart and threw it at the split beads that were
of the right 1/4 inch interior dimension, readily available, and reasonably
cheap.
6) If I were a suspicious or cynical person I might conclude from the
profusion of beads available that they are widely used by amateur radio
types and others as sort of a palliative device as in "what the hell, they
might help and probably won't hurt".
7) My installation technique was to put one on the number one VHF comm coax
coax cable between the Archer antenna and the Garmin GNS 430 box wherever I
had enough slack in the cable or room to squeeze one in. In addition I put
one on my Lightspeed headset cable, but can't remember where right now and
the headset is out at the airport with the airplane. The headset bead is the
first one I'll remove if I ever start any detective work.
Hope the above is of some help.
OC
PS: Regarding a photo: I have only a film camera and am always astounded
when I get a roll of film developed to see pictures that I took several
months ago and had long forgotten taking them. Waiting for pictures from me
is a hopeless game.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Battery contactor S701-1 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:10 PM 5/11/2005 +0200, you wrote:
>Hi Bob,
>I had to install the above contactor bought from B&C just under passenger's
>seat.
>He has noticed some heat coming up and, to my surprise, I had to confirm
>that,
>after a short operation time, it becomes quite hot, to the extent that one
>cannot keep his hand on its metal body: is it normal?
>Do you have specs of what current/power it absorbs?
>Thank you.
>Gianni Zuliani
>Via Tanello, 1
>CH 6977 Lugano-Ruvigliana
>Switzerland
Yes, these do dissipate about 10 watts of heat under normal
operating conditions. This will produce case temperatures
that are too hot to touch. This is normal and expected
operating conditions for this kind of product.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: El-Cheeso batteries follow up tests . . |
.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
.
At 11:18 AM 5/11/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>
>In a message dated 5/11/2005 10:07:23 A.M. Central Standard Time,
>b.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
>
>I give up. I'm only on my second cup of coffee this morning. What's OJT?
>
>
>On Job Training
Aha! But of course. I bailed from the university during second
semester calculus when the instructor told us engineers that 90%
plus of everything we needed to know about calculus was in the
next chapter . . . The Calculus of Trigonometry. I'd validated
high school trig for college credit 5 years earlier. The next
chapter was about 15 pages in a 400 page book. And this guy
just told me that out of 15 semester hours of credit for the
full range of courses, one chapter in the book was most of what
I needed to know.
I was working full time, raising two kids, and . . . learning
more on the job than I was in school. I was about 6 hours short
of being a junior in college and hadn't taken a single electronics
course. That was the last time I set foot in a college classroom.
I a couple of years, I'll be able to audit any course at the
university for free. I think I might go back and get some of those
courses I REALLY wanted to take.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: SD-8 and No Battery |
1.62 FROM_NUM_AT_WEBMAIL From address is webmail, but starts with a
number
1.72 MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID Message-Id for external message added locally
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "210flyer" <210flyer@earthlink.net>
Hi Guys,
I have been following the recent discussion about whether or not Internally
Regulated alternators will "self excite" in the event that they are called
upon to restart without an external voltage source. I have not seen any
mention of using a separate battery for field excitation to overcome this
potential failure mode.
My '82 Cessna T210 has a lot of redundancy built in from the factory.
Whether or not it actually improves reliability is a different discussion.
One of the "features" Cessna added is a battery pack filled with C-Cells
that can be connected to the external voltage regulators (I have dual
alternators running in parallel, similar to most twins) to provide a small
field excitation current to restart the alternators in the event the main
battery can no longer provide this current. Each new technician that sees
the restart button or comes across the battery pack asks "What's this for?"
This is one solution to the loss of field excitation current in a no-battery
state that would be simple to implement.
Best Regards,
Mike Hutchins
Message 9
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| Subject: | El-Cheeso batteries follow up tests . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
OJT is that most universal educator--On The Job training (aka O-J-T). I was able
to mystify R.L.N--a true red letter day!
Chuck
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: El-Cheeso batteries follow up tests . .
.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
.
At 09:07 AM 5/11/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
>I'm 30 years out of the college experience and I'm still working toward
>breakeven. However, OJT seems to pay back profit the next day.
>
>Chuck
I give up. I'm only on my second cup of coffee this morning. What's OJT?
I've added some more test articles to the 9v battery experiment. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/9vBatteryTests.jpg
I think I've flogged enough batteries to death for now. My conclusions
based on what we know right now is that there is reason to be skeptical
of superlatives like "ultra", "max", "new and improved", etc. when
it comes to batteries (and probably most other products).
The tests conducted with the array of 9v batteries featured in the
experiment indicate that there is little practical difference in
the performance of the various products tested. Further, the least
expensive of these was equal to or better than the "high priced spread".
If anyone encounters a house brand cell in flashlight or 9v packages
that they would like to have tested, send me one or two and I'll
add their data to the library of tests already conducted and supply
it folks here on the List.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Too many TLA's
(Three Letter Acronyms)
Eric
(DNA Do Not Archive )
Message 11
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| Subject: | Can you run 914/Airmaste in feather? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Can you start and run 914/Airmaster in feather?
will it cause any damage to anything?
For instance, wanting to warm up faster on ground, or ability to start up faster
during a airstart while waiting for blades to move.
thx.
Ron Parigoris
Message 12
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Prue Motorgliders <pruemotorgliders@cox.net>
> IAS (It All Stinks) - Did you think it meant Indicated airspeed?
> From a novice's point of view, a lot of what appears to be or could be
> meaningful information in the discussions is lost on the sprinkling of
> the alphabet . These abbreviations certainly make postings easier for
> the sender but leave the novice reader in the dark.
> Seriously how about someone on the inside that knows the Letter
> Acronyms create or start an editable glossary for the benefit of those
> struggle to know and learn.
> TIA - small stroke? Na just thanks in advance
do not archive
On May 11, 2005, at 13:01, Eric M. Jones wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
> <emjones@charter.net>
>
> Too many TLA's
>
> (Three Letter Acronyms)
>
> Eric
>
> (DNA Do Not Archive )
>
>
Message 13
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rick Girard <fly.ez@verizon.net>
In most technical reports, the practice is to first use the full name of
the acronym followed by the acronym in parenthesis. after that first
insertion the acronym is used with out referring to the name. How about
that as a way to do it here. A bit of a Pain in the A** (PITA) but it works.
Rick Girard
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: SD-8 and No Battery |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:38 PM 5/11/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "210flyer" <210flyer@earthlink.net>
>
>Hi Guys,
>
>I have been following the recent discussion about whether or not Internally
>Regulated alternators will "self excite" in the event that they are called
>upon to restart without an external voltage source. I have not seen any
>mention of using a separate battery for field excitation to overcome this
>potential failure mode.
>
>My '82 Cessna T210 has a lot of redundancy built in from the factory.
>Whether or not it actually improves reliability is a different discussion.
>One of the "features" Cessna added is a battery pack filled with C-Cells
>that can be connected to the external voltage regulators (I have dual
>alternators running in parallel, similar to most twins) to provide a small
>field excitation current to restart the alternators in the event the main
>battery can no longer provide this current. Each new technician that sees
>the restart button or comes across the battery pack asks "What's this for?"
>This is one solution to the loss of field excitation current in a no-battery
>state that would be simple to implement.
I was at Cessna in the 60's when we crafted a number of re-start
options. The C-337 used electric tachometers with 3-phase p.m.
alternators. We found that a 3-phase rectifier and a push-button
would allow one to use the tach generators as a means of poking a
stalled alternator back to life. A number of dry-battery options
were tried too. I don't recall now what features wound up on which
airplanes but if your '82 model has a dry-cell pack, I guess that
answers that question for at least one model.
Loss of a battery not only opens the possibility of stalling
an alternator but one might have higher bus noises to deal with.
If one has concerns for this failure mode, you can always have
two, half-size batteries al-la Figure Z-30. You're not likely
to loose both batteries on any single tank full of fuel.
Bob . . .
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