---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/16/05: 40 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:59 AM - Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters (AI Nut) 2. 04:14 AM - Re: Dr. Dee's Milestone reached!! (Chuck Jensen) 3. 04:28 AM - Re: Sudden Failure (William Bernard) 4. 04:39 AM - Signal Sourcing for GPS/NAV () 5. 05:00 AM - Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters (LarryRobertHelming) 6. 05:18 AM - Re: Sudden Failure (Ken) 7. 05:42 AM - Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters (Ed Anderson) 8. 07:31 AM - Re: Dr. Dee's Milestone reached!! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 07:48 AM - Re: Avionics breaker (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 07:48 AM - Re: Sudden Failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 08:22 AM - Re: Sudden Failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 08:24 AM - Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant (Mickey Coggins) 13. 09:18 AM - Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters (Steve Thomas) 14. 09:23 AM - Rolled my email address . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 09:28 AM - Re: Signal Sourcing for GPS/NAV (Mark R Steitle) 16. 09:37 AM - Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant (Mike Larkin) 17. 10:38 AM - Re: Signal Sourcing for GPS/NAV (John Schroeder) 18. 11:10 AM - RAC servo and Landing light - wiring help please (Paul Weismann) 19. 11:41 AM - Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant (Eric M. Jones) 20. 12:22 PM - Re: Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant (Chuck Jensen) 21. 12:50 PM - Re: RAC servo and Landing light - wiring (Donald Garcia) 22. 12:52 PM - (no subject) (TSaccio@aol.com) 23. 01:35 PM - Re: (no subject) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 24. 02:25 PM - Re: Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant (Terry Watson) 25. 02:25 PM - Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters (John Schroeder) 26. 02:36 PM - Re: Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant (B Tomm) 27. 02:38 PM - Re: Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant (Tim Dawson-Townsend) 28. 03:42 PM - Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters (Leo Corbalis) 29. 04:08 PM - Re: Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant (Leo Corbalis) 30. 04:26 PM - Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters (Matt Prather) 31. 06:08 PM - Re: RAC servo and Landing light - wiring help please (Jim Stone) 32. 06:10 PM - Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters (Rico Voss) 33. 06:45 PM - S.O.S. Kiez! Polizei schlaegt Alarm (bob.nuckolls@cox.net) 34. 07:07 PM - GI-106A Back Course () 35. 07:46 PM - Re: GI-106A Back Course (Paul Folbrecht) 36. 07:57 PM - Re: GI-106A Back Course (BobsV35B@aol.com) 37. 08:37 PM - Re: GI-106A Back Course (Paul Folbrecht) 38. 08:42 PM - Re: GI-106A Back Course (BobsV35B@aol.com) 39. 09:03 PM - Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 40. 09:27 PM - Re: GI-106A Back Course (Matt Prather) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:59:36 AM PST US From: AI Nut Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut Nearly EVERYthing one gets that was made in China is pure junk. And I don't mean just the boats, either. And don't forget they are still killing Americans (and others) with impunity. Rico Voss wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rico Voss > > > > >>Buy a cheap digital multimeter from Harbor Freight. >> >> > >My curiosity has overcome me. >I bought one of those famous HarborFreight multimeters, >made in China. I've found, however that voltage readings >are affected significantly by whether the display is >exposed to bright light. > >Any comments or explanations welcome (other than "you get >what you pay for") > >Richard, Zenith XL >do not archive > > > >Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out! >http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html > > >. > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:14:33 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dr. Dee's Milestone reached!! From: "Chuck Jensen" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" Heck, I suspect she could stay pretty busy on this list.... Congrats Bob. I'm guessing her graduation brings you more pride and satisfaction than the best, simplest and most elegant circuit you've ever designed. Well done. Chuck Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Earl_Schroeder Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dr. Dee's Milestone reached!! --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Earl_Schroeder Hi Bob, Hmmm, maybe Ms Dee could start a psychologyAdvice-list?? All kidding aside, pass on my congratulations!! Earl Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > >I've been preoccupied with dozens of relatives and more dozens >of friends for the past several days. We've gathered to observe >Dee's graduation with her PhD in community/clinical psychology. > >It's been a long haul . . . about 15 years but she's stayed the >course and walked in Saturday's graduation ceremonies at WSU. >I'll need a couple more days to recover from wall-to-wall >relatives and sundry gatherings > > > Bob . . . > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:28:21 AM PST US From: "William Bernard" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Sudden Failure --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Bernard" I don't believe it is a switch problem for the simple reason that three switches would all have to die suddenly. The master would produce the clicks from the master contacter, but when the switch that turns on the e-buss was turned on, nothing happened either. Also, there is a power light on the electronic ignition circuit and the powe comes directly from the battery. That circuit was dead also. Replacing the battery corrected all the problems. I just wonder if there is a way to prevent a recurrence. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leo Corbalis" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Sudden Failure > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" > > Buy a cheap digital multimeter from Harbor Freight. You can then make > measurements and think. Then fix the broken part. Put a diode (1N4004) > across the coil of all relays, solonoids and contactors. I know the 1N4004 > is "overkill" but I replaced plenty of 1N4001 s and never had a recall on 24 > volt systems. The master switch is prpbably fried, as a guess. Reading the > voltage drop across the closed switch will tell all (almost). If you screw > up by having the meter on the wrong range, the worst thing you can do is > blow the fuse in the amp circuit. It's easily replaced. Meters with a needle > can wrap the needle 3 times around the high end (slight exageration I only > got 2 turns). > > Leo Corbalis > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert McCallum" > To: > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Sudden Failure > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert McCallum > > > > > > Bill; > > > > If the master contactor clicks "sometimes" it's unlikely the battery. > > The battery either has enough voltage to pull in the contactor or it > > doesn't. It's not a "sometimes" or random thing. It is more likely a > > master switch failure. This can be a sometimes thing, making contact on > > one closure but not the next time. While you were flying it was working > > but now you've turned it off it is not now reliably closing every time. > > Not necessarily the answer but batteries don't work intermittently while > > switches sometimes do. > > > > Bob McC > > > > William Bernard wrote: > > > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Bernard" > >> > >> > >>Hi all: I had an interesting situation yesterday afternoon, fortunately on > >>the ground. > >> > >>I had completed a flight to another airport and when I went to start the > >>aircraft for the return tirp, there was no electricity. The trip over had > >>been about an hour earlier and no, I didn't leave the master switch on. > >> > >>The aircraft is wired using Bob's ideas with both a main and emergency > >>buss. The single electronic ignition is wired directly from a battery > >>buss. Nothing worked although the master contactor would click sometimes. > >>It sounds like a classic dead battery, but the battery is only 2 1/2 - 3 > >>years old and is an RG type. There has been no obvious signs of impending > >>failure. > >> > >>I plan to replace the battery, but I wondered if anyone had any thoughts > >>as to what the problem might be and how to prevent a recurrence. > >> > >>Thanks in advance > >> > >>Bill > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:07 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Signal Sourcing for GPS/NAV --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "John Schroeder" <<.....skip......Another point that he made, and it is clear in the SL-30 manuals, is that the OBS, can't be switched between the SL-30 and any other VOR/ILS box without recalibrating the SL-30 interface with the OBS every time it is switched back to the SL-30.....skip....>> 5/16/2005 Hello John, This is not consistent with my experience. Maybe the SL-30 manual is wrong or misleading. Can you point me to which manual and where it says that? Maybe David Buckwalter who wired my panel knows something that neither Garmin / UPS or John Stark knows. Please see the following from a previous post of mine. Thanks. OC ------------------ BELOW FROM A PREVIOUS POST BY OC ------------ > I encountered this same "it is not possible" information when I was having > my panel made and found it to be untrue. > My panel, built by David Buckwalter of Avionics Systems, consists of a GNS > 430, an SL-30, and a GI 106A. I use a Northern Airborne RS 16-001 data > switch to connect the three of them. I shift between the GNS 430 and the > SL-30 with a lighted push button switch. One half labeled GNS 430 and the > other half labeled SL-30. Every push of the switch cycles from one to the > other. > > On the GI 106A there are three lights: NAV, VOR/LOC, and GPS. When the NAV > light is lit I am feeding the CDI from the SL-30. When either the VOR/LOC > or > GPS light is lit I am feeding the CDI from the GNS 430. To shift between > VOR/LOC or GPS I push the CDI button on the face of the GNS 430. > > Everything works perfectly (Thanks, David). When flying ILS approaches I > frequently use the SL-30 set up on the localizer and glidescope and use > the > GNS 430 for mileage and big picture information. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:00:06 AM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" Scary............ Just think, I just finished building a very nice RV7 using several "pure junk" tools from HF. And it does not fall out of the sky and crash. The "junk" tools are priced so low below what union manufacturers in the US can make them far that our unions and workers are doomed to be out of business in a few years. I wonder everytime I buy a product to look at the label that shows where it was manufactured. Not surprisingly, many times it says China. I don't try to buy China products on purpose. 40 years ago these best-value things all said made in Japan. With the air quality, water quality, and what not laws we have now over US manufacturing, it is a wonder we can profitably produce anything in a competitive world. Well, I produced an airplane with HF tools. I guess that says something about using HF tools..........do not archive Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up It Flies ----- Original Message ----- > > Nearly EVERYthing one gets that was made in China is pure junk. And I > don't mean just the boats, either. > And don't forget they are still killing Americans (and others) with > impunity. > > > Rico Voss wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rico Voss >> >> >> >> >>>Buy a cheap digital multimeter from Harbor Freight. >>> >>> >> >>My curiosity has overcome me. >>I bought one of those famous HarborFreight multimeters, >>made in China. I've found, however that voltage readings >>are affected significantly by whether the display is >>exposed to bright light. >> >>Any comments or explanations welcome (other than "you get >>what you pay for") >> >>Richard, Zenith XL >>do not archive >> ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:39 AM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Sudden Failure --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken Yup this is similar to what I call open circuit failure in automotive batteries. It will supply a few amps but nothing more. My guess is that it is somewhat variable depending on how much electrolyte vs. gas is in the vicinity of the break as you can usually hear hissing when charging or discharging. Had a run of several such failures once and none since changing brands but again these were flooded cell batteries. Ken William Bernard wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Bernard" > >I don't believe it is a switch problem for the simple reason that three >switches would all have to die suddenly. The master would produce the clicks >from the master contacter, but when the switch that turns on the e-buss was >turned on, nothing happened either. Also, there is a power light on the >electronic ignition circuit and the powe comes directly from the battery. >That circuit was dead also. > >Replacing the battery corrected all the problems. > >I just wonder if there is a way to prevent a recurrence. > >Bill > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:39 AM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" My experience with HF tools is the same. I have one major tool that I purchased American-made and the rest are Chinese - guess which tool does not work. I've had a Chinese metal band saw (cut-off) for over 30 years, a wood band saw made of iron castings rather than plastic (25+ years old), sanders, air tools, etc. I've abused these tools and they continue to work - never even had to replace a single component. Its not that I would not pay more $$ for American-made - but my experience is you pay more money and get inferior tools. For the price I paid for the Chinese tools I was prepared (expecting) to have to throw them away after 10 years or so, but that has not turned out to be the case. Cast iron seems to last longer than plastic. Now if you a lot of $$ then perhaps the top of line American made tools are still top quality - but, I simply can not afford the top of the line. FWIW Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" > > > Scary............ Just think, I just finished building a very nice RV7 > using several "pure junk" tools from HF. And it does not fall out of the > sky and crash. The "junk" tools are priced so low below what union > manufacturers in the US can make them far that our unions and workers are > doomed to be out of business in a few years. I wonder everytime I buy a > product to look at the label that shows where it was manufactured. Not > surprisingly, many times it says China. I don't try to buy China products > on purpose. 40 years ago these best-value things all said made in Japan. > With the air quality, water quality, and what not laws we have now over US > manufacturing, it is a wonder we can profitably produce anything in a > competitive world. Well, I produced an airplane with HF tools. I guess > that says something about using HF tools..........do not archive > > Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up It Flies > ----- Original Message ----- > >> Nearly EVERYthing one gets that was made in China is pure junk. And I >> don't mean just the boats, either. >> And don't forget they are still killing Americans (and others) with >> impunity. >> >> >> Rico Voss wrote: >> >>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rico Voss >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Buy a cheap digital multimeter from Harbor Freight. >>>> >>>> >>> >>>My curiosity has overcome me. >>>I bought one of those famous HarborFreight multimeters, >>>made in China. I've found, however that voltage readings >>>are affected significantly by whether the display is >>>exposed to bright light. >>> >>>Any comments or explanations welcome (other than "you get >>>what you pay for") >>> >>>Richard, Zenith XL >>>do not archive >>> > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:04 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dr. Dee's Milestone reached!! --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 07:10 AM 5/16/2005 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" > >Heck, I suspect she could stay pretty busy on this list.... > >Congrats Bob. I'm guessing her graduation brings you more pride and >satisfaction than the best, simplest and most elegant circuit you've ever >designed. You got that right! > Well done. Thank you . . . from both of us. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:16 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics breaker --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 09:18 AM 5/14/2005 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" > >My flying Glastar has a "conventional" electrical system with an avionics >master switch and solenoid. I guess for fault tolerance reasons there is >also a separate "aux avionics switch" with a separate breaker that can >bypass the avionics solenoid and feed the avionics bus directly. > >This seems to add a level of complexity that provides very little if any >benefit. There are only three pieces of avionics, a GNC250XL(10A), a >GTX320(3A) and an intercom(1A). The aux avionics breaker is 15 Amps. > >As they say "if it ain't broke don't fix it". In this case I'm not trying >to fix it, I'm trying to add a Trutrak autopilot and I'm trying to figure >out the best way to wire in the power. The quickest would be to feed it >separately from the main bus and not use the avionics bus. The most >complex would be to re-wire the entire plane using a Z-drawing type >configuration. I'm looking for a in-between solution, preferably closer to >the first idea. the only difference between what you describe and what I've recommended in the z-figures is where the alternate power feed for the endurance (avionics) bus comes from. I prefer to take it right from the battery bus . . . and then move a few useful items like minimal panel lighting, turn coordinator and perhaps a voltmeter to the endurance bus. your autopilot could run from the endurance bus nicely . . . I think I'd add a no-feedback diode into the normal feedpath and move the second feedpath to the battery. The "aux avionics" breaker could move to the battery bus and you could use miniature contactor (relay) to support the larger than normal aux feed path. See figure Z-32. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:50 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Sudden Failure --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 06:56 AM 5/15/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Bernard" > > >Hi all: I had an interesting situation yesterday afternoon, fortunately on >the ground. > >I had completed a flight to another airport and when I went to start the >aircraft for the return tirp, there was no electricity. The trip over had >been about an hour earlier and no, I didn't leave the master switch on. > >The aircraft is wired using Bob's ideas with both a main and emergency >buss. The single electronic ignition is wired directly from a battery >buss. Nothing worked although the master contactor would click sometimes. >It sounds like a classic dead battery, but the battery is only 2 1/2 - 3 >years old and is an RG type. There has been no obvious signs of impending >failure. > >I plan to replace the battery, but I wondered if anyone had any thoughts >as to what the problem might be and how to prevent a recurrence. You say "sometimes" . . . on times that it DID click, did the system come up? Were you able to start the engine? How did you get the airplane home or is it stuck on the other airport. If your battery started the airplane earlier that day, it's far from DEAD. If the contactor made no noise at all, the most likely problem is the battery-master side of your DC POWER MASTER switch. Do you have a diode across the coil of the battery contactor as illustrated in: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/s701-1l.jpg If not, then the contactor's de-energizing spike may have burned the contacts of the master switch so as to make it unreliable. Replacement of the switch and ADDITION of the diode would be indicated. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:43 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Sudden Failure --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 06:30 AM 5/16/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Bernard" > > >I don't believe it is a switch problem for the simple reason that three >switches would all have to die suddenly. The master would produce the clicks >from the master contacter, but when the switch that turns on the e-buss was >turned on, nothing happened either. Also, there is a power light on the >electronic ignition circuit and the powe comes directly from the battery. >That circuit was dead also. > >Replacing the battery corrected all the problems. > >I just wonder if there is a way to prevent a recurrence. Yes, periodic cap testing of your battery . . . or some other considered preventative maintenance program. I think you mentioned that the battery was several years old. 95% of the time, my "sudden" failures of batteries in my vehicles was a loose post on the battery. Several years ago, I did have a flooded battery behave as you've described. Got in the car at store 2 miles away and it started right up. Ten minutes after arriving home, I identified another procurement task and the car wouldn't start. Battery refused to carry even 8A worth of headlamp loads. I stuck one of my 32 a.h. RG instrumentation batteries in and drove to the parts store to buy a new battery for the van. This battery was several years old too . . . more than 3 and probably less than 5. Do you still have the old battery? Are you SURE that the problem wasn't a poor connection at the battery post? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:59 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Off-Topic rant below - please DELETE ASAP!!! .RantStart You are right. Thank heaven for the WTO protecting corporations' rights to move their production wherever they can find cheap workers and weak environmental regulations. Now these underdog multinationals can stop having to worry about those pesky environmental and labor laws we've developed over the last 100 years or so. They can also stop worrying about annoying, boring, old documents, like the US Constitution, since the WTO rules supersede them in issues of trade. Therefore, thanks to the WTO, those quaint local governments, like the US Congress, can not pass a law restricting imports of products that were made in sweatshops with essentially slave labor while dumping poisonous toxins into the oceans. This of course assumes that our congress-critters' corporate masters would allow such a law to be introduced. The WTO is just one of the many tools we hard-core capitalists are using to exert our control over the wimpy, whining, weak, sheeple of the world. .Insert EvilLaugh.mp3 .RantStop Personally, I go to Harbor Freight only as a last resort, since everything there is made in China. Often, Sears has a "Made in USA" version of a tool, but at twice the price. I buy it anyway. It has become harder and harder to find *anything* that is not made in China. It's the same problem here in Europe. It seems like the world has decided that China will be our manufacturing region. Just like Japan in the 70s, the quality starts out being abysmal, but eventually becomes world class. Once all the "cheap" Japanese workers were absorbed, and their wages caught up, they lost their cost advantage. One big difference with China is that its population is 10x the size of Japan. It might take some time for the world to absorb all those 30 dollar a month workers. Oh well, at least we still have to make hamburgers locally. Mickey LarryRobertHelming wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" > > Scary............ Just think, I just finished building a very nice RV7 > using several "pure junk" tools from HF. And it does not fall out of the > sky and crash. The "junk" tools are priced so low below what union > manufacturers in the US can make them far that our unions and workers are > doomed to be out of business in a few years. I wonder everytime I buy a > product to look at the label that shows where it was manufactured. Not > surprisingly, many times it says China. I don't try to buy China products > on purpose. 40 years ago these best-value things all said made in Japan. > With the air quality, water quality, and what not laws we have now over US > manufacturing, it is a wonder we can profitably produce anything in a > competitive world. Well, I produced an airplane with HF tools. I guess > that says something about using HF tools..........do not archive > > Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up It Flies > ----- Original Message ----- > > >>Nearly EVERYthing one gets that was made in China is pure junk. And I >>don't mean just the boats, either. >>And don't forget they are still killing Americans (and others) with >>impunity. -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 Wiring do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:49 AM PST US From: Steve Thomas Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Steve Thomas Hello AI, Monday, May 16, 2005, 2:56:43 AM, you wrote: AN> Nearly EVERYthing one gets that was made in China is pure junk. And I AN> don't mean just the boats, either. AN> And don't forget they are still killing Americans (and others) with AN> impunity. Woa! Don't forget that just about every piece of computer equipment that you buy is made in China. That includes companies like Dell, HP, Gateway, Apple, and most of the rest. I also have several HF tools that work just fine. And, this country was built on free enterprise and competition. If we want to survive, it will be through innovation and hard competition, not through complaining that jobs are being "lost" for whatever reason. -- Best regards, Steve mailto:lists@stevet.net.nospam ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:48 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rolled my email address . . . --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" A quick note to those who have used b.nuckolls@cox.net for my direct email address, please note that account has been closed. Somebody "spoofed" that address and used it to mail gazillions of virii loaded messages . . . I was getting a great many notes from upset targets and outraged ISP providers that were filtering my supposed messages. For the time being, my email for the AeroElectric-List only will be nuckollsr@cox.net. do not archive Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:48 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Signal Sourcing for GPS/NAV From: "Mark R Steitle" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark R Steitle" Mark, I think Blue Mountain Avionics is typically abbreviated BMA, not BM. ;-) The bottom-of-the-line model is their Lite, commonly referred to as the G3. Mark S. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett Ferrell Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Signal Sourcing for GPS/NAV --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brett Ferrell" a Blue Mountain 3rd generation EFIS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Sletten" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Signal Sourcing for GPS/NAV > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Sletten" > > > Ok, I'll bite, what's a BM G3? > > Mark & Lisa Sletten > Legacy FG N828LM > http://www.legacyfgbuilder.com > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:42 AM PST US From: "Mike Larkin" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Larkin" I agree......... Mike Larkin -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Off-Topic rant below - please DELETE ASAP!!! .RantStart You are right. Thank heaven for the WTO protecting corporations' rights to move their production wherever they can find cheap workers and weak environmental regulations. Now these underdog multinationals can stop having to worry about those pesky environmental and labor laws we've developed over the last 100 years or so. They can also stop worrying about annoying, boring, old documents, like the US Constitution, since the WTO rules supersede them in issues of trade. Therefore, thanks to the WTO, those quaint local governments, like the US Congress, can not pass a law restricting imports of products that were made in sweatshops with essentially slave labor while dumping poisonous toxins into the oceans. This of course assumes that our congress-critters' corporate masters would allow such a law to be introduced. The WTO is just one of the many tools we hard-core capitalists are using to exert our control over the wimpy, whining, weak, sheeple of the world. .Insert EvilLaugh.mp3 .RantStop Personally, I go to Harbor Freight only as a last resort, since everything there is made in China. Often, Sears has a "Made in USA" version of a tool, but at twice the price. I buy it anyway. It has become harder and harder to find *anything* that is not made in China. It's the same problem here in Europe. It seems like the world has decided that China will be our manufacturing region. Just like Japan in the 70s, the quality starts out being abysmal, but eventually becomes world class. Once all the "cheap" Japanese workers were absorbed, and their wages caught up, they lost their cost advantage. One big difference with China is that its population is 10x the size of Japan. It might take some time for the world to absorb all those 30 dollar a month workers. Oh well, at least we still have to make hamburgers locally. Mickey LarryRobertHelming wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" > > Scary............ Just think, I just finished building a very nice RV7 > using several "pure junk" tools from HF. And it does not fall out of the > sky and crash. The "junk" tools are priced so low below what union > manufacturers in the US can make them far that our unions and workers are > doomed to be out of business in a few years. I wonder everytime I buy a > product to look at the label that shows where it was manufactured. Not > surprisingly, many times it says China. I don't try to buy China products > on purpose. 40 years ago these best-value things all said made in Japan. > With the air quality, water quality, and what not laws we have now over US > manufacturing, it is a wonder we can profitably produce anything in a > competitive world. Well, I produced an airplane with HF tools. I guess > that says something about using HF tools..........do not archive > > Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up It Flies > ----- Original Message ----- > > >>Nearly EVERYthing one gets that was made in China is pure junk. And I >>don't mean just the boats, either. >>And don't forget they are still killing Americans (and others) with >>impunity. -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 Wiring do not archive -- -- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:49 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Signal Sourcing for GPS/NAV From: "John Schroeder" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" Hello OC - Page 34 of the Installation Manual for the SL-30 is partially quoted below: Calibrating the Resolver Indicator Head Type After selecting RESOLVER as the indicator head, it is necessary to calibrate the interface between the SL30 and the resolver. The SL30 cannot drive multiple resolvers at the same time. It is not recommended that external resolvers he switched through a relay or other means because the resolver must be calibrated to the radio as described in this procedure. If multiple resolvers are desired in the installation, the primary unit must he installed and calibrated as described here. The secondary unit should use the composite output. I. After selecting RESOLVER us the indicator head type, turn the large knob to the PRESS SEL TO CALIBRATE RESOLVER display. 2. Press SEL 3. Follow the directions on the SL30 display. Note: The accuracy of the system is dependent on this calibration. Do not hurry this step. 4. At the end of the setup, press ENT to store the results. 5. Cycle the power switch (enter the normal mode). 6. Tune a VOR station (any VOR frequency). 7. Press OHS button. 8. Verify that the OBS decodes properly from 0 to 360 degrees. If the SL-30 will not accept the calibration or advances to the next prompt when the ENT key is pressed, there may be a problem with the resolver interface. Hope this sheds some light on the subject. John > <<.....skip......Another point that he made, and it is clear in the SL-30 > manuals, is that the OBS, can't be switched between the SL-30 and any > other VOR/ILS box > without recalibrating the SL-30 interface with the OBS every time it is > switched back to the SL-30.....skip....>> > > 5/16/2005 > > Hello John, This is not consistent with my experience. Maybe the SL-30 > manual is wrong or misleading. Can you point me to which manual and > where it says that? Maybe David Buckwalter who wired my panel knows > something that neither Garmin / UPS or John Stark knows. Please see the > following from a > previous post of mine. Thanks. OC -- ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:10:56 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: RAC servo and Landing light - wiring help please From: "Paul Weismann" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Weismann" Hello all, This is my first of probably many posts. I have read many of the posts and done searches on several issues I am having, and this is a very valuable resource, thanks. I am installing landing lights in a hatch under the belly of my helicopter. The hatch is extended/retracted with an RAC servo. My goal is to be able to: 1. flip a single toggle switch to a) turn on the lights and b) extend the hatch to a pre-determined position. 2. once the hatch is extended, I want to be able to adjust its angle with the coolie hat on my infinity grip in the up/down axis. 3. whatever position the hatch is in, I want the lights to switch off and the hatch to retract once the toggle switch is flipped off. I am assuming I will need a micro-switch or some kind of limit switch, but if any of you gurus could point me in the right direction in terms of circuit design, I would be extremely grateful. I am trying to learn as much as I can about this stuff but this one is just too complex for my laymans brain to make sense of. Any descriptions of components and layouts would be more appreciated if they were in "beginner" language, if you know what I mean. :-) Thanks in advance. Paul ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:32 AM PST US From: "Eric M. Jones" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" I live in Southbridge, Massachusetts--- the Optical Capital of the World from 1837 until the 1970's. People around here remember on Friday when the jeweler's rouge was dumped into the river. It ran red to the ocean. Now there are more than FIVE MILLION square feet of abandoned industrial space in this little town. Touring this vast space is a journey to another dimension. There are empty hallways a thousand feet long and vast spaces where indoor flight tests are a real possibility. We tend to think that industry seeking lower costs is a recent and local issue but it's been going on for as long as there has been trade. Those darned Arabs---importing oriental fabrics via the silk route....Those darned Romans using cheap slave labor...Damned those Phoenicians.... There was a time, for hundreds of years when America was the low-cost high-quality producer to the world. In fact, New England clipper ships moved goods made in Salem, Massachusetts to the consumers of the world. What is odd about this is that so frequently was the imprint "Made in Salem" seen that in the early 1700's "Salem" was believed by many to be the name of a really big country. It is surprising to many but the USA was the world's dominant clock and watch producer from about 1820 to 1920. We are left to remember this time by a Swiss watchmaker's prouncement that "Not one in fifty thousand Swiss watches is as good as an American watch that sells for a dollar!" The famous watchmakers IWC in Schaffhausen began as a American company in 1860 looking for low paid labor! During the Great Depression of the 1930's students learned technical skills, and how to fend for themselves. But we gradually lost our dominance after the 1950's when the rest of the world was recovering from the rubble of world war two and rebuilt their industry and economies with the latest new machinery. Zenith and Motorola assembly plants in South Central Los Angeles started buying circuit boards from Japan in the late1950's. But, of course, we would keep the engineering here....Now all my home electronics seem to say "Sony". You can still go to seminars where gurus will tell you that the Orientals are good at copying things but are short on creativity. (HAH!) The Japanese and Chinese will humbly agree--but this is just polite oriental deference. There are smart people everywhere. They will eat our lunches, sure. But for now we enjoy the bountiful fruits of their low-paid labor. The Chinese are worried that the low-cost labor in India and Indonesia will take their jobs. Read Thomas L. Friedman's "The World is Flat". Enjoy.... Regards, Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge MA 01550-2705 Phone (508) 764-2072 Email: emjones@charter.net "People don't appreciate how very difficult it is to be a princess." --Princess Diana ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:22:38 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant From: "Chuck Jensen" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" Forever be it. We do some business with Korea Electric Power Company. They recently delayed, for 18 months, 4 nuclear plants they have on the drawing board because of slack electrical demand. They said the problem was all their manufacturing jobs were being exported to China. I felt like telling him that's EXACTLY how we felt 20 years ago when all of our manufacturing jobs were going to Korea and Japan. It's economically efficient to have this constant change as countries/economies develop and each specializes in those products and services where they have a competitive advantage. It's actually to everyone's (at least in a plural sense) long term benefit--but don't tell that to the U.S. textile worker that just lost his/her job to Chinamen who make 3 bowls of rice per hour. The scary part is, "what products and services do we have a competitive advantage in anymore?" Chuck Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Eric M. Jones Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" I live in Southbridge, Massachusetts--- the Optical Capital of the World from 1837 until the 1970's. People around here remember on Friday when the jeweler's rouge was dumped into the river. It ran red to the ocean. Now there are more than FIVE MILLION square feet of abandoned industrial space in this little town. Touring this vast space is a journey to another dimension. There are empty hallways a thousand feet long and vast spaces where indoor flight tests are a real possibility. We tend to think that industry seeking lower costs is a recent and local issue but it's been going on for as long as there has been trade. Those darned Arabs---importing oriental fabrics via the silk route....Those darned Romans using cheap slave labor...Damned those Phoenicians.... There was a time, for hundreds of years when America was the low-cost high-quality producer to the world. In fact, New England clipper ships moved goods made in Salem, Massachusetts to the consumers of the world. What is odd about this is that so frequently was the imprint "Made in Salem" seen that in the early 1700's "Salem" was believed by many to be the name of a really big country. It is surprising to many but the USA was the world's dominant clock and watch producer from about 1820 to 1920. We are left to remember this time by a Swiss watchmaker's prouncement that "Not one in fifty thousand Swiss watches is as good as an American watch that sells for a dollar!" The famous watchmakers IWC in Schaffhausen began as a American company in 1860 looking for low paid labor! During the Great Depression of the 1930's students learned technical skills, and how to fend for themselves. But we gradually lost our dominance after the 1950's when the rest of the world was recovering from the rubble of world war two and rebuilt their industry and economies with the latest new machinery. Zenith and Motorola assembly plants in South Central Los Angeles started buying circuit boards from Japan in the late1950's. But, of course, we would keep the engineering here....Now all my home electronics seem to say "Sony". You can still go to seminars where gurus will tell you that the Orientals are good at copying things but are short on creativity. (HAH!) The Japanese and Chinese will humbly agree--but this is just polite oriental deference. There are smart people everywhere. They will eat our lunches, sure. But for now we enjoy the bountiful fruits of their low-paid labor. The Chinese are worried that the low-cost labor in India and Indonesia will take their jobs. Read Thomas L. Friedman's "The World is Flat". Enjoy.... Regards, Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge MA 01550-2705 Phone (508) 764-2072 Email: emjones@charter.net "People don't appreciate how very difficult it is to be a princess." --Princess Diana ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:50:57 PM PST US From: "Donald Garcia" help please Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RAC servo and Landing light - wiring help please --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Donald Garcia" ---Hello Paul I do not need this kind of shit in my box anymore, i do understand why u should be sending this , pls stay clear from my box Original Message ----- From: "Paul Weismann" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RAC servo and Landing light - wiring help please > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Weismann" > > > Hello all, > > > This is my first of probably many posts. I have read many of the posts > and done searches on several issues I am having, and this is a very > valuable resource, thanks. > > > I am installing landing lights in a hatch under the belly of my > helicopter. The hatch is extended/retracted with an RAC servo. > > My goal is to be able to: > > 1. flip a single toggle switch to a) turn on the lights and b) > extend the hatch to a pre-determined position. > > 2. once the hatch is extended, I want to be able to adjust its angle > with the coolie hat on my infinity grip in the up/down axis. > > 3. whatever position the hatch is in, I want the lights to switch > off and the hatch to retract once the toggle switch is flipped off. > > > I am assuming I will need a micro-switch or some kind of limit switch, > but if any of you gurus could point me in the right direction in terms > of circuit design, I would be extremely grateful. I am trying to learn > as much as I can about this stuff but this one is just too complex for > my laymans brain to make sense of. Any descriptions of components and > layouts would be more appreciated if they were in "beginner" language, > if you know what I mean. :-) > > > Thanks in advance. > > Paul > > -- Outgun.com free e-mail @ www.outgun.com Check out our Premium services - POP3 downloading, e-mail forwarding, and 25MB mailboxes! Powered by Outblaze ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:52:16 PM PST US From: TSaccio@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: (no subject) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TSaccio@aol.com Sometime ago there was an article written on this site about low cost battery chargers from Harbor Freight. Does anyone have information as to the best one to buy? Tom Saccio ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:09 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: (no subject) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 03:48 PM 5/16/2005 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TSaccio@aol.com > >Sometime ago there was an article written on this site about low cost >battery chargers from Harbor Freight. Does anyone have information as to >the best >one to buy? Tom Saccio I posted that note and referred to this item: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/HF_Battery_Maintainer.jpg I don't know about the performance of this device. I've got it on my list of things to do in the not too distant future. If you're interested in a known good device for battery charging and maintenance, check out http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=79845&item=5774201356&rd=1 and http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7973379892&category=63687 I have three of the "junior" models that are used to recharge/maintain my RG instrumentation batteries. I also use them on my father's seldom driven vehicles. At the moment, they are my all-time favorite battery service tools. Here's where you get all the technical scoop on these critters. http://batterytender.com/ Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:13 PM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" A couple of nights ago I was working out on a stair machine at my health club in a Seattle suburb, reading Thomas Friedman's book, "The World is Flat", which Eric mentioned. The young woman next to me had a tiny cell phone which would chime on occasion and she would pick it up and punch the keys for a few minutes, then put it back down. She never actually answered the phone; just picked it up and punched the keys. I asked her if it was a new phone, since I thought she must be trying to figure it out. She replied with a distinct Russian accent that yes, it was new, but that she was exchanging text messages with her father in central Russia. She also said that her father had a summer home in Siberia, and that even there, she could just call him up on her phone, or send him text messages, and that it was so very inexpensive. Those who think that the Chinese only build clunky cast iron tools are in for a very rude awakening. The "all-American" Garmin 196 that I bought a few years ago came in a box, clearly marked "Made in Taiwan". I'm quite sure my Toyota pickup was assembled in California. We can all have our own reasons for buying or not buying from any company or country we want, but to dismiss anything manufactured in China as being of low quality is to be maybe a quarter of a century behind the times. Terry Do not archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:12 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters From: "John Schroeder" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" Subject: GLOBALIZATION INTERNATIONAL THINKING AT ITS BEST! Question: What is the truest definition of Globalization? Answer: Princess Diana's death. Question: How come? Answer: An English princess with an Egyptian boyfriend crashes in a French tunnel, driving a German car with a Dutch engine, driven by a Belgian who was drunk on Scottish whisky, (check the bottle before you change the spelling) followed closely by Italian Paparazzi, on Japanese motorcycles; treated by an American doctor, using Brazilian medicines. This is sent to you by an Englishman, using Bill Gates's technology, and you're probably reading this on your computer, that uses Taiwanese chips, and a Korean monitor, assembled by Bangladeshi workers in a Singapore plant, transported by Indian lorry-drivers, hijacked by Indonesians, unloaded by Sicilian longshoremen, and trucked to you by Mexican illegals..... That, my friends, is Globalization Do not archive ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:36:55 PM PST US From: B Tomm Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: B Tomm Well, when there are no more "developing countries" left (to work cheaper than anyone else so they can get themselves "developed), it will go back to "developed countries" who are willing to take a pay cut to get the work. This will not come without controversy though as everybody will claim their workers are worth more than what the rest of the world is willing to pay. Nothing really has changed, except the names and places. We, in the western, world have had it pretty good for as long as most of us have been alive, but it hasn't always been this way, nor will it always be. Change is inevitable and we live in a global economy whether we like it or not. I wonder how many "undeveloped countries are there left before we should expect higher prices, disrupted supply and/or cheaper quality. This topic is way to heavy, back to pounding rivets. Bevan RV7A -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Jensen [SMTP:cjensen@dts9000.com] Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" Forever be it. We do some business with Korea Electric Power Company. They recently delayed, for 18 months, 4 nuclear plants they have on the drawing board because of slack electrical demand. They said the problem was all their manufacturing jobs were being exported to China. I felt like telling him that's EXACTLY how we felt 20 years ago when all of our manufacturing jobs were going to Korea and Japan. It's economically efficient to have this constant change as countries/economies develop and each specializes in those products and services where they have a competitive advantage. It's actually to everyone's (at least in a plural sense) long term benefit--but don't tell that to the U.S. textile worker that just lost his/her job to Chinamen who make 3 bowls of rice per hour. The scary part is, "what products and services do we have a competitive advantage in anymore?" Chuck Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Eric M. Jones Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" I live in Southbridge, Massachusetts--- the Optical Capital of the World from 1837 until the 1970's. People around here remember on Friday when the jeweler's rouge was dumped into the river. It ran red to the ocean. Now there are more than FIVE MILLION square feet of abandoned industrial space in this little town. Touring this vast space is a journey to another dimension. There are empty hallways a thousand feet long and vast spaces where indoor flight tests are a real possibility. We tend to think that industry seeking lower costs is a recent and local issue but it's been going on for as long as there has been trade. Those darned Arabs---importing oriental fabrics via the silk route....Those darned Romans using cheap slave labor...Damned those Phoenicians.... There was a time, for hundreds of years when America was the low-cost high-quality producer to the world. In fact, New England clipper ships moved goods made in Salem, Massachusetts to the consumers of the world. What is odd about this is that so frequently was the imprint "Made in Salem" seen that in the early 1700's "Salem" was believed by many to be the name of a really big country. It is surprising to many but the USA was the world's dominant clock and watch producer from about 1820 to 1920. We are left to remember this time by a Swiss watchmaker's prouncement that "Not one in fifty thousand Swiss watches is as good as an American watch that sells for a dollar!" The famous watchmakers IWC in Schaffhausen began as a American company in 1860 looking for low paid labor! During the Great Depression of the 1930's students learned technical skills, and how to fend for themselves. But we gradually lost our dominance after the 1950's when the rest of the world was recovering from the rubble of world war two and rebuilt their industry and economies with the latest new machinery. Zenith and Motorola assembly plants in South Central Los Angeles started buying circuit boards from Japan in the late1950's. But, of course, we would keep the engineering here....Now all my home electronics seem to say "Sony". You can still go to seminars where gurus will tell you that the Orientals are good at copying things but are short on creativity. (HAH!) The Japanese and Chinese will humbly agree--but this is just polite oriental deference. There are smart people everywhere. They will eat our lunches, sure. But for now we enjoy the bountiful fruits of their low-paid labor. The Chinese are worried that the low-cost labor in India and Indonesia will take their jobs. Read Thomas L. Friedman's "The World is Flat". Enjoy.... Regards, Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge MA 01550-2705 Phone (508) 764-2072 Email: emjones@charter.net "People don't appreciate how very difficult it is to be a princess." --Princess Diana ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:52 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" I have less of a problem with someone who manufactures a product in China and then sells it for a cheap price. What's worse is companies that move production from America to China, sell at the same price, and pocket a bigger margin at the expense of the American worker. The real irony will be when the missiles start flying in the Taiwan Strait - those "Made in China" gym shoes will look like less of a deal then . . . TDT -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Terry Watson Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" A couple of nights ago I was working out on a stair machine at my health club in a Seattle suburb, reading Thomas Friedman's book, "The World is Flat", which Eric mentioned. The young woman next to me had a tiny cell phone which would chime on occasion and she would pick it up and punch the keys for a few minutes, then put it back down. She never actually answered the phone; just picked it up and punched the keys. I asked her if it was a new phone, since I thought she must be trying to figure it out. She replied with a distinct Russian accent that yes, it was new, but that she was exchanging text messages with her father in central Russia. She also said that her father had a summer home in Siberia, and that even there, she could just call him up on her phone, or send him text messages, and that it was so very inexpensive. Those who think that the Chinese only build clunky cast iron tools are in for a very rude awakening. The "all-American" Garmin 196 that I bought a few years ago came in a box, clearly marked "Made in Taiwan". I'm quite sure my Toyota pickup was assembled in California. We can all have our own reasons for buying or not buying from any company or country we want, but to dismiss anything manufactured in China as being of low quality is to be maybe a quarter of a century behind the times. Terry Do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:54 PM PST US From: "Leo Corbalis" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" I checked my HF digital meters (2) and my expensive large meters. All were very clear and easy to read in direct sunlight. There should not be any problem with the sun heating your meter. If there is send it back as defective.I do have a Radio Shack digital tire pressure gage that wipes out in direct sun and shows all 8 s. This is a "feature" of the display technology in the LCD. The only answer is shade it. Leo Corbalis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rico Voss" Subject: AeroElectric-List: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rico Voss > > >> Buy a cheap digital multimeter from Harbor Freight. > > My curiosity has overcome me. > I bought one of those famous HarborFreight multimeters, > made in China. I've found, however that voltage readings > are affected significantly by whether the display is > exposed to bright light. > > Any comments or explanations welcome (other than "you get > what you pay for") > > Richard, Zenith XL > do not archive > > > Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out! > http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:08:39 PM PST US From: "Leo Corbalis" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" The British Empire tried "free trade" just within the empire starting before WW 1. Their empire has finished swirling around the bowl and gone down the "crapper" (British). Our idiot socialists have set us on the same swirling ride. WTO regulations are a pile of paper 23 inches thick!!! Is that really free trade ? The Chinese are grossly undervaluing their money to steal our manufacturing jobs. They may be communists but they understand economics. Bring back tariffs ! They protect jobs and are a form of national sales tax. The more you spend , the more you pay. Leo Corbalis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Jensen" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" > > > Forever be it. We do some business with Korea Electric Power Company. > They recently delayed, for 18 months, 4 nuclear plants they have on the > drawing board because of slack electrical demand. They said the problem > was all their manufacturing jobs were being exported to China. I felt > like telling him that's EXACTLY how we felt 20 years ago when all of our > manufacturing jobs were going to Korea and Japan. > > It's economically efficient to have this constant change as > countries/economies develop and each specializes in those products and > services where they have a competitive advantage. It's actually to > everyone's (at least in a plural sense) long term benefit--but don't tell > that to the U.S. textile worker that just lost his/her job to Chinamen who > make 3 bowls of rice per hour. The scary part is, "what products and > services do we have a competitive advantage in anymore?" > > Chuck > Do Not Archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Eric > M. Jones > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT > rant > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" > > > I live in Southbridge, Massachusetts--- the Optical Capital of the World > from 1837 until the 1970's. People around here remember on Friday when the > jeweler's rouge was dumped into the river. It ran red to the ocean. Now > there are more than FIVE MILLION square feet of abandoned industrial space > in this little town. Touring this vast space is a journey to another > dimension. There are empty hallways a thousand feet long and vast spaces > where indoor flight tests are a real possibility. > > We tend to think that industry seeking lower costs is a recent and local > issue but it's been going on for as long as there has been trade. Those > darned Arabs---importing oriental fabrics via the silk route....Those > darned > Romans using cheap slave labor...Damned those Phoenicians.... > > There was a time, for hundreds of years when America was the low-cost > high-quality producer to the world. In fact, New England clipper ships > moved > goods made in Salem, Massachusetts to the consumers of the world. What is > odd about this is that so frequently was the imprint "Made in Salem" seen > that in the early 1700's "Salem" was believed by many to be the name of a > really big country. > > It is surprising to many but the USA was the world's dominant clock and > watch producer from about 1820 to 1920. We are left to remember this time > by a Swiss watchmaker's prouncement that "Not one in fifty thousand Swiss > watches is as good as an American watch that sells for a dollar!" The > famous > watchmakers IWC in Schaffhausen began as a American company in 1860 > looking > for low paid labor! > > During the Great Depression of the 1930's students learned technical > skills, > and how to fend for themselves. But we gradually lost our dominance after > the 1950's when the rest of the world was recovering from the rubble of > world war two and rebuilt their industry and economies with the latest new > machinery. > > Zenith and Motorola assembly plants in South Central Los Angeles started > buying circuit boards from Japan in the late1950's. But, of course, we > would > keep the engineering here....Now all my home electronics seem to say > "Sony". > > You can still go to seminars where gurus will tell you that the Orientals > are good at copying things but are short on creativity. (HAH!) The > Japanese > and Chinese will humbly agree--but this is just polite oriental deference. > There are smart people everywhere. > > They will eat our lunches, sure. But for now we enjoy the bountiful fruits > of their low-paid labor. > > The Chinese are worried that the low-cost labor in India and Indonesia > will > take their jobs. Read Thomas L. Friedman's "The World is Flat". Enjoy.... > > Regards, > Eric M. Jones > www.PerihelionDesign.com > 113 Brentwood Drive > Southbridge MA 01550-2705 > Phone (508) 764-2072 > Email: emjones@charter.net > > "People don't appreciate how very difficult it is to be a princess." > --Princess Diana > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:26:48 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters From: "Matt Prather" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" Interesting... I took Richard's comment to mean that the accuracy of the meter (the value of the readings) was changed by exposure to sunlight, not the readability of the display. I can see why you interpreted the comment differently. So Richard, which is it? Regards, Matt- VE N34RD, C150 N714BK > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" > > > I checked my HF digital meters (2) and my expensive large meters. All > were very clear and easy to read in direct sunlight. There should not > be any problem with the sun heating your meter. If there is send it > back as defective.I do have a Radio Shack digital tire pressure gage > that wipes out in direct sun and shows all 8 s. This is a "feature" of > the display technology in the LCD. The only answer is shade it. > > Leo Corbalis > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rico Voss" > To: > Subject: AeroElectric-List: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters > > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rico Voss >> >> >>> Buy a cheap digital multimeter from Harbor Freight. >> >> My curiosity has overcome me. >> I bought one of those famous HarborFreight multimeters, >> made in China. I've found, however that voltage readings >> are affected significantly by whether the display is >> exposed to bright light. >> >> Any comments or explanations welcome (other than "you get >> what you pay for") >> >> Richard, Zenith XL >> do not archive >> >> >> Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it >> out! http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:08:12 PM PST US From: "Jim Stone" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RAC servo and Landing light - wiring help please --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" Paul, Can you operate a collective and two joysticks at the same time, at night, without getting vertigo? Not me. You must play a lot of XBox with your kids. Sounds like a cool set up. Sorry I can offer no help, standby, you'll get some soon. Jim Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Weismann" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RAC servo and Landing light - wiring help please > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Weismann" > > > Hello all, > > > This is my first of probably many posts. I have read many of the posts > and done searches on several issues I am having, and this is a very > valuable resource, thanks. > > > I am installing landing lights in a hatch under the belly of my > helicopter. The hatch is extended/retracted with an RAC servo. > > My goal is to be able to: > > 1. flip a single toggle switch to a) turn on the lights and b) > extend the hatch to a pre-determined position. > > 2. once the hatch is extended, I want to be able to adjust its angle > with the coolie hat on my infinity grip in the up/down axis. > > 3. whatever position the hatch is in, I want the lights to switch > off and the hatch to retract once the toggle switch is flipped off. > > > I am assuming I will need a micro-switch or some kind of limit switch, > but if any of you gurus could point me in the right direction in terms > of circuit design, I would be extremely grateful. I am trying to learn > as much as I can about this stuff but this one is just too complex for > my laymans brain to make sense of. Any descriptions of components and > layouts would be more appreciated if they were in "beginner" language, > if you know what I mean. :-) > > > Thanks in advance. > > Paul > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:04 PM PST US From: Rico Voss Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rico Voss > accuracy of the > meter (the value of the readings) was changed by exposure > to sunlight, not > the readability of the display. Yes, Matt, the actual voltage reading changed, and the amount it's off is proportional to how bright the light hitting the display is. I was just wondering if there was any precedent for this, or did I get a (Chinese)lemon. __________________________________ http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:21 PM PST US From: bob.nuckolls@cox.net Subject: AeroElectric-List: S.O.S. Kiez! Polizei schlaegt Alarm --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: bob.nuckolls@cox.net Lese selbst: http://bz.berlin1.de/archiv/041115_pdf/BZ041115_004_GB2IG556.1.htm ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:40 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: GI-106A Back Course --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "John Schroeder" <<.......skip.....He (John Stark) recommended getting the MD200-306 instead of the GI-106A. The GI can't do the back coarse ILS, if I recall the comparison he gave me correctly. Mid Continent builds both the 106 & 200 series and the prices are very close......skip....>> 5/16/2005 Hello John, I flew a simulated localizer back course** today with my SL-30 feeding my GI-106A. It worked perfectly. There is no back course indication on the GI-106A itself when it is being fed back course inputs from the SL-30, but the SL-30 indications clearly show that it is in the back course mode when you place it there. What features does the MD200-306 have that would make it superior for back course work? OC **PS: I couldn't find a published back course approach in the Northeast Volume 3 U. S. Terminal procedures book so I had to simulate a back course while flying a front course. ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:42 PM PST US From: Paul Folbrecht Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GI-106A Back Course --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht Well, BC indicator is hardly necessary to fly a BC anyway. None of the older King, etc. indicators tell you you're flying a BC - you need to know that. --- bakerocb@cox.net wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > > AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "John Schroeder" > > > <<.......skip.....He (John Stark) recommended getting the MD200-306 instead > of the GI-106A. The GI can't do the back coarse ILS, if I recall the > comparison he gave me correctly. Mid Continent builds both the 106 & 200 > series and the prices are very close......skip....>> > > 5/16/2005 > > Hello John, I flew a simulated localizer back course** today with my SL-30 > feeding my GI-106A. It worked perfectly. There is no back course indication > on the GI-106A itself when it is being fed back course inputs from the > SL-30, but the SL-30 indications clearly show that it is in the back course > mode when you place it there. > > What features does the MD200-306 have that would make it superior for back > course work? > > OC > > **PS: I couldn't find a published back course approach in the Northeast > Volume 3 U. S. Terminal procedures book so I had to simulate a back course > while flying a front course. > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:42 PM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GI-106A Back Course --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 5/16/2005 9:51:56 P.M. Central Standard Time, paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com writes: Well, BC indicator is hardly necessary to fly a BC anyway. None of the older King, etc. indicators tell you you're flying a BC - you need to know that. How many back course approaches are still in service? I haven't shot one in at least twenty years. Maybe more. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Airpark LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:27 PM PST US From: Paul Folbrecht Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GI-106A Back Course --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht I know Appleton, WI (ATW) has one. Only one that comes to mind in my area. --- BobsV35B@aol.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com > > > In a message dated 5/16/2005 9:51:56 P.M. Central Standard Time, > paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com writes: > > Well, BC indicator is hardly necessary to fly a BC anyway. None of the > older > King, etc. indicators tell you you're flying a BC - you need to know that. > > > How many back course approaches are still in service? > > I haven't shot one in at least twenty years. Maybe more. > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:30 PM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GI-106A Back Course --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 5/16/2005 10:38:47 P.M. Central Standard Time, paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com writes: I know Appleton, WI (ATW) has one. Only one that comes to mind in my area. Good Evening Paul, I found only two in Illinois. Forty years ago there were a dozen in Northern Illinois alone. I wouldn't spend much to have back course capability. Do Not Archive Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Airpark LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:21 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: cheap Harbor Freight multimeters - OT rant --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 02:21 PM 5/16/2005 -0700, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" > >A couple of nights ago I was working out on a stair machine at my health >club in a Seattle suburb, reading Thomas Friedman's book, "The World is >Flat", which Eric mentioned. I just ordered that book on a audio CD from my local library. I'll keep it in the CD player in my car for the next week or so. >We can all have our own reasons for buying or not buying from any company or >country we want, but to dismiss anything manufactured in China as being of >low quality is to be maybe a quarter of a century behind the times. Well put. I've been gigged by many dishonorable and/or incapable individuals over the years. Some were in China, most were not. I have several machine tools from HF that have demonstrated some limitations but for the most part, have been good value. I was able to produce parts that sold for a great deal more than the tools cost. In the grand scheme of things, the consumer/ supplier transactions were all accomplished to the satisfaction of persons involved. Someone wondered if we have any competitive goods or services to offer . . . perhaps as a nation we are slipping behind. There are undoubtedly a host of economic forces that play to that condition. However, I've observed first hand, a very powerful force pushing us in the wrong direction: If we don't radically modify the way our children are schooled, the future of the US will be much less bright and more difficult. Bob . . . Do not archive ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:03 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GI-106A Back Course From: "Matt Prather" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" I know this probably shouldn't turn into a "There's one here... There's one here too..." type thing... But, I am finishing up my instrument rating right now, and use the Localizer Back Course a couple of times each week at Boise. Fly the ILS to published missed, then vectors (normal because of terrain) for the BC going the opposite direction, then miss - climb runway heading for the procedure turn back to the ILS. Keeps the neurons whirring.. Regards, Matt- do not archive > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com > > > In a message dated 5/16/2005 9:51:56 P.M. Central Standard Time, > paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com writes: > > Well, BC indicator is hardly necessary to fly a BC anyway. None of the > older > King, etc. indicators tell you you're flying a BC - you need to know > that. > > > How many back course approaches are still in service? > > I haven't shot one in at least twenty years. Maybe more. > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > AKA > Bob Siegfried > Ancient Aviator > Stearman N3977A > Brookeridge Airpark LL22 > Downers Grove, IL 60516 > 630 985-8502 > >