Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:06 AM - about those 1965 radios (colyncase on earthlink)
2. 08:33 AM - Re: Avionics Masters (about those 1965 radios) (Eric M. Jones)
3. 09:02 AM - Wiring question (Darwin N. Barrie)
4. 11:07 AM - Cranking the first time, melted wires (owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com)
5. 11:10 AM - Re: Wiring question (John Schroeder)
6. 01:08 PM - Re: Cranking the first time, melted wires (Eric M. Jones)
7. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: Cranking the first time, melted wires (brucebell74)
8. 02:04 PM - where to find steady state power usage for avionics (colyncase on earthlink)
9. 02:08 PM - Transorb (Carlos Trigo)
10. 02:35 PM - Re: Re:Shielded wiret (Franz Fux)
11. 02:58 PM - Re: Cranking the first time, melted wires (Robert McCallum)
12. 03:06 PM - Re: Transorbs (Eric M. Jones)
13. 05:46 PM - Re: Re:Shielded wiret (Jim Stone)
14. 07:32 PM - Re: Re:Shielded wiret (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 07:41 PM - Re: about those 1965 radios (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | about those 1965 radios |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "colyncase on earthlink" <colyncase@earthlink.net>
Bob,
I've been digging through the archives trying to find everything about Avionics
Masters, a subject I'm sure you're tired of but I am still trying to get
my mind around.
Anyway, in several messages you mention that in 1965 there were a lot of radio
deaths that were attributed (apparently without reason) to power issues on
the bus. So did they ever figure out what caused all those deaths? ...I'm
supposing that it was not the power quality.
Also, some of the threads appear to have been concluded elsewhere. I was
particularly interested in Ed and Shannon's system, which you threatened to critique
thoroughly but I couldn't find where the critique actually happened..
thanks,
Colyn Case
L IVP
Message 2
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| Subject: | RE: Avionics Masters (about those 1965 radios) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "colyncase on earthlink"
<colyncase@earthlink.net>
>.... in 1965 there were a lot of radio deaths that were attributed
(apparently without reason) to power issues on the bus. So did they ever
figure out >what caused all those deaths?...I'msupposing that it was not the
power quality. Also, some of the threads appear to have been concluded
>elsewhere.
>Colyn Case
I'll answer the Avionics Master question if YOU tell me why so many Lancair
pilots have the same first and last initials? It's gotten so that when one
of my customers says his name is Luke Lugnuts, I already know what he's
building.
Now for my part---
Avionics Master were invented so that the radio settings would be the same
when you powered down and back up. Then they started blowing up early
transistors so the Avionics Master was still a good idea. The original
purpose still makes a lot of sense and I have been leaning toward using the
A.M. switch for its convenience.
But if you plan on protecting the radios from "bad power", I don't think
it's a great idea to depend on a switch. The day will come when you'll
forget. My solution---transorbs at the sources of inductive spikes---and a
spike catcher on the inputs to the expensive boxes. Cheap insurance.
And don't forget the starter solenoid.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
Message 3
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
Scenario- Approach systems wiring hub (Garmin Pro series)
EXP switch panel.
Avionics that will be installed. I do not have the avionics yet but have installed
the trays. Also do not have the install manuals for the avionics. My issue
is whether the power wires for each piece of equipment (same amp rating) can
be joined to one appropriate circuit on the EXP bus?
Garmin 340 audio panel - two power wires labeled as 5amp
Garmin 430 GPS - Two power wires labeled 10 amps 3 power wires labeled 5 amps
SL 30 - one power wire labled 5 amps
Garmin 330S transponder - two power wires no label but believed to be 5 amps.
Everything is installed in final locations and I'm wanting to terminate some of
the wires.
Thanks in advance.
Darwin N. Barrie
P19
Message 4
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| Subject: | Cranking the first time, melted wires |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by:
Hi all
After filling up my 0-360A1A with new oil I cranked the engine the first
time with removed ignition plugs to distribute the oil. After 10-20 seconds
it smelled bad and I saw a melting jacket of a thin wire.
As I analyzed the problem I found out that the overloaded wire was the ground
of the alternator field. There was no power applied to the regulator.
Is there a bad ground?! I tested the resistance with an ohmmeter from the
battery ground to the starter and it shows 0.00 ohm.
My battery is on the firewall and I have a ground bus on the firewall connected
with a 2AWG cable (12?). From there I run the cable (19?) to the engine case
I used a mounting hole at the back housing next to the oil refill. I removed
the paint to have a good metal to metal connection.
I do not know what else could be checked or even what was the reason?
Thanks in advance
Daniel
Lancair 360, Switzerland
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Darwin -
My advice is to run a separate power and ground for each box. If one box
fails and blows the cb/fuse, you won't lose all your avionics. This also
goes for the boxes that have dual functions - one power and one ground for
each function. The fact that you feel you need to do what you proposed
tells me that the EXP buss may be marginal for your system. It is a nice
piece of equipment, but it sure constrains ones options for wiring the
bird with some built-in flexibility.
I'm not sure you have the numbers down for the power circuits on the
equipment you listed below. I know for sure that the SL-30 has one power
and one ground for the nav and for the comm side of the box. Also, be
aware that the tray for the SL-30 was modified sometime after it was
released. We got a tray and had installed it; only to find that the box
did not fit into it correctly.
The 330 transponder has one power in and that is "y'd" to pins 21 & 42 in
the plug at the box (after the cb/fuse). There is an optional power line
if you have a reason to connect it. There are two grounds that are tied
together at the plug to get one wire to the ground buss.
I would download the installation manuals ASAP before doing much more
planning on the avionics electrical system. If you can't find them, I have
the 330, the SL-30 and the 340 that i could email you - if you have
wideband internet and your ISP allows large file thru the screens. If not,
I can burn a cd with them and send it to you.
Hope this helps.
John
>
> Avionics that will be installed. I do not have the avionics yet but have
> installed the trays. Also do not have the install manuals for the
> avionics. My issue is whether the power wires for each piece of
> equipment (same amp rating) can be joined to one appropriate circuit on
> the EXP bus?
>
> Garmin 340 audio panel - two power wires labeled as 5amp
>
> Garmin 430 GPS - Two power wires labeled 10 amps 3 power wires labeled 5
> amps
>
> SL 30 - one power wire labled 5 amps
>
> Garmin 330S transponder - two power wires no label but believed to be 5
> amps.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cranking the first time, melted wires |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>After filling up my 0-360A1A with new oil I cranked the engine the first
>time with removed ignition plugs to distribute the oil. After 10-20 seconds
>it smelled bad and I saw a melting jacket of a thin wire.
....I do not know what else could be checked or even what was the reason?
...Daniel
Daniel,
I don't know the answer but maybe melted wire is just the Lancair's way of
telling you something is wrong.
I do want to point out that if the alternator/regulator/battery is hooked up
wrong when you crank the engine, the possibility that you fried the
alternator diodes or something else is very high.
The alternator depends on the battery to regulate its voltage. Disconnecting
the alternator from the battery when the alternator is spinning will often
fry the diodes.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
"Everything you've learned in school as "obvious" becomes
less and less obvious as you begin to study the universe.
For example, there are no solids in the universe. There's
not even a suggestion of a solid. There are no absolute con-
tinuums. There are no surfaces. There are no straight lines."
- R. Buckminster Fuller
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cranking the first time, melted wires |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "brucebell74" <brucebell74@sbcglobal.net>
Do you have a ground cable to the engine?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Cranking the first time, melted wires
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
> <emjones@charter.net>
>
>>After filling up my 0-360A1A with new oil I cranked the engine the first
>>time with removed ignition plugs to distribute the oil. After 10-20
>>seconds
>>it smelled bad and I saw a melting jacket of a thin wire.
> ....I do not know what else could be checked or even what was the reason?
> ...Daniel
>
> Daniel,
>
> I don't know the answer but maybe melted wire is just the Lancair's way of
> telling you something is wrong.
>
> I do want to point out that if the alternator/regulator/battery is hooked
> up
> wrong when you crank the engine, the possibility that you fried the
> alternator diodes or something else is very high.
>
> The alternator depends on the battery to regulate its voltage.
> Disconnecting
> the alternator from the battery when the alternator is spinning will often
> fry the diodes.
>
> Regards,
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge MA 01550-2705
> Phone (508) 764-2072
> Email: emjones@charter.net
>
> "Everything you've learned in school as "obvious" becomes
> less and less obvious as you begin to study the universe.
> For example, there are no solids in the universe. There's
> not even a suggestion of a solid. There are no absolute con-
> tinuums. There are no surfaces. There are no straight lines."
>
> - R. Buckminster Fuller
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | where to find steady state power usage for avionics |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "colyncase on earthlink" <colyncase@earthlink.net>
Doing my load analysis but I don't know where to get steady state power usage.
e.g. If I go to Garmin's web page they don't list watts or amps for a gns530 (and
if they did it would probably be the max).
I dug around in the archive and didn't find what I was looking for.
Does anyone have or have a pointer to this information?
I need gns530, gns430, nsd1000, misc gyros
thanks,
Colyn Case
Message 9
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Received-SPF: softfail (mta6: domain of transitioning trigo@mail.telepac.pt does
not designate 85.138.30.109 as permitted sender) receiver=mta6; client_ip=85.138.30.109;
envelope-from=trigo@mail.telepac.pt;
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
Please forgive my ignorance (not everybody on this list is an expert) but, what
is a transorb ?
And where can it be purchased?
And how is it installed at "the source of inductive spikes" ?
Thanks
Carlos Trigo
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re:Shielded wiret |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Franz Fux" <franz@lastfrontierheli.com>
Hi everybody,
I have a question regarding the shielded wire that leads to the strobes in
the Weelen system 6 for my RV7A. I would like to t interrupt the wire run
and use a connector at the wing root. Two reasons for this, one is to be
able to take the wing off in the future and the second one is that I cut the
wire twice already and it is still to short. Would I loose the shielding
effect of the wire and would I have noise interference in the future,
thanks fore any comments
Franz Fux RV7A wiring
-
--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Cranking the first time, melted wires |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
Daniel;
It is almost a certainty that you do not have the engine casing properly
grounded and what overheated the wire was starter current flowing
through it. The starter is by far the heaviest load in your plane and
therefore the best place for the battery ground is on the engine case.
From there you run the ground to the airframe. This wire can be
somewhat smaller than if it has to carry starter loads. Checking with an
ohmmeter does not properly ascertain sufficient ground for your starter
because of the load it draws. Your ohmmeter may well indicate zero ohms,
but if this path is only an 18 gauge wire (or 16 or 14) you can rest
assured that when you try to pull the hundred (or so) amps required by
the starter it is going to get VERY hot very quickly even if it does
measure zero ohms with a meter. (It is certainly NOT truly zero but in
reality some other small value) If the path is a #4 or #2 wire with good
solid connections all will be well. You may have a loose or poor
connection between your batteries firewall ground and the engine case
and the path of least resistance turned out to be the alternator ground
which is insufficient to carry starter current.
Bob McC
>battery ground to the starter and it shows 0.00 ohm.
>My battery is on the firewall and I have a ground bus on the firewall connected
>with a 2AWG cable (12?). From there I run the cable (19?) to the engine case
>I used a mounting hole at the back housing next to the oil refill. I removed
>the paint to have a good metal to metal connection.
>
>I do not know what else could be checked or even what was the reason?
>
>Thanks in advance
>Daniel
>Lancair 360, Switzerland
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo"
<trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
>....what is a transorb? And where can it be purchased? And how is it
installed at "the source of inductive spikes" ?........
Carlos,
The recommended device is P6KE18CA bidirectional zener transient voltage
suppressor from Digikey (p/n P6KE18CALFCT-ND). You can see the pdf on my
website. I sell a dozen of them and the parts and hardware for attaching
them on my website.
http://www.periheliondesign.com/suppressors/SnapJack.pdf
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
- - Leonard Cohen
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re:Shielded wiret |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" <jsto1@tampabay.rr.com>
I have connectors at my wing roots for all electrical connections,
circular Cannon plugs that twist lock on and off. Just carry the strobe
shield as a seperate pin. I chose to put P/S's in wingtips so only 12
Vdc goes by fuel tanks.
Jim Stone
Jabiru J450 (trailerable)
Clearwater FL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Franz
Fux
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re:Shielded wiret
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Franz Fux"
--> <franz@lastfrontierheli.com>
Hi everybody,
I have a question regarding the shielded wire that leads to the strobes
in the Weelen system 6 for my RV7A. I would like to t interrupt the wire
run and use a connector at the wing root. Two reasons for this, one is
to be able to take the wing off in the future and the second one is that
I cut the wire twice already and it is still to short. Would I loose the
shielding effect of the wire and would I have noise interference in the
future, thanks fore any comments Franz Fux RV7A wiring
-
--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re:Shielded wiret |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 02:34 PM 6/21/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Franz Fux"
><franz@lastfrontierheli.com>
>
>Hi everybody,
>I have a question regarding the shielded wire that leads to the strobes in
>the Weelen system 6 for my RV7A. I would like to t interrupt the wire run
>and use a connector at the wing root. Two reasons for this, one is to be
>able to take the wing off in the future and the second one is that I cut the
>wire twice already and it is still to short. Would I loose the shielding
>effect of the wire and would I have noise interference in the future,
>thanks fore any comments
>Franz Fux RV7A wiring
Not at all. Take the shield lead through the connector on
it's own pin and it will be fine.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: about those 1965 radios |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 05:01 AM 5/22/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "colyncase on earthlink"
><colyncase@earthlink.net>
>
>Bob,
> I've been digging through the archives trying to find everything
> about Avionics Masters, a subject I'm sure you're tired of but I am still
> trying to get my mind around.
> Anyway, in several messages you mention that in 1965 there were a lot
> of radio deaths that were attributed (apparently without reason) to power
> issues on the bus. So did they ever figure out what caused all those
> deaths? ...I'm supposing that it was not the power quality.
> Also, some of the threads appear to have been concluded
> elsewhere. I was particularly interested in Ed and Shannon's system,
> which you threatened to critique thoroughly but I couldn't find where the
> critique actually happened..
>
>thanks,
>
>Colyn Case
>L IVP
How about digging around on my website instead? See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/avmaster.pdf
Bob . . .
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