---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 05/27/05: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:45 AM - Re: PDA power (Harley) 2. 05:09 AM - TEST (Bob Miller) 3. 06:50 AM - Re: 22 ga too small? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 07:01 AM - Re: Securing small wires (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 07:08 AM - Re: Charging multiple batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 07:31 AM - Re: Charging multiple batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 08:11 AM - Automatic x-feed contactor control??? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 08:49 AM - Re: Charging multiple batteries (John Schroeder) 9. 09:18 AM - Re: Securing small wires (Matt Prather) 10. 11:03 AM - Re: Automatic x-feed contactor control??? (Mike Larkin) 11. 11:20 AM - Re: Securing small wires (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 01:12 PM - Re: Securing small wires (Vern W.) 13. 01:22 PM - Re: Securing small wires (John Schroeder) 14. 01:33 PM - Re: Calculating Electrical Load (Bryan Hooks) 15. 02:49 PM - Re: PDA power (Mike Larkin) 16. 05:16 PM - Re: Securing small wires (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 17. 07:13 PM - Re: Securing small wires (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 18. 08:48 PM - Re: Securing small wires (David Burton) 19. 10:11 PM - Re: Securing small wires (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:20 AM PST US From: Harley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PDA power --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley John... ControlVision (Anywhere Map) has an adapter that plugs into the iPaq that comes with the GPS antenna they supply that runs everything on the vehicle's power. It just plugs into a cigar lighter in your car or plane (or a power outlet, common on the newer cars). It also charges the battery in the unit while it's running it, or while sitting (if the vehicle power remains on to that plug when the ignition is off). I use it all the time in my car as well. Harley Dixon Long EZ N28EZ Canandaigua, NY John Swartout wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Swartout" > > >Are any of you using PDA's or Pocket PC's such as Dell Axim or HP iPAQ >to run GPS moving map navigation programs such as AnywhereMap or >MountainScope or TeleType, and here is my question: > >Are you using batteries to run this device, or feeding it from your >airplane's electrical system? I haven't seen in the specifications for >any of these devices how many volts they run on (I don't own one yet), >nor whether they can run on external power sources. Also, if you are >using a separate GPS receiver, either Bluetooth or wired, to feed the >PDA, are you running THAT on batteries, does it receive power from the >PDA, or are you running it from ship's power? > >Bottom line, to save $$$ on batteries and avoid the nuisance of wanting >to start a trip and not having any charged Ni-cad's on hand, I would >like to supply these devices--GPS receiver and PDA, from ship's power, >and would like to know the best way to supply the correct voltage. > >I have read numerous posts on the subject of converting DC to DC of a >different voltage but nothing definitive. > >Thanks in advance. > >John > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:09:12 AM PST US From: Bob Miller Subject: AeroElectric-List: TEST --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob Miller do not archive -- Bob Miller 601HD N722Z Charlottesville, Virginia ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:08 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 22 ga too small? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > >I haven't had luck finding the specific thread in the archive that I was >thinking of - referenced a 2 stroke engine installation with wires leading >to controls/instrumentation. Had vibration induced failures. I did find >a different thread that discussed a similar scenario: > >http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=15989953?KEYS=crimping_vs._soldering?LISTNAME=AeroElectric?HITNUMBER=5?SERIAL=15200432715?SHOWBUTTONS=YES > >Message number: #10218 > >I guess this goes back to 'good practice' - provide strain relief, >damping, and support to all structures so that vibrational mode >frequencies are high above any normal excitation frequency. Then strain >relief becomes a much less interesting issue. > >Thanks for the discussion. Hmmmm . . . there's that term "good practice" again. Let's consider the posting cited: We have had a series of planes having problems with wires breaking because the solder flowing back into the wire 3/8 to 1/2" and making a solid to flexible junction a little ways back from the terminal. The wire will break at this junction after a while. If it is the wrong wire things get very Quite. Charles Dunn Flint Hills Technical School 3/8 to 1/2" . . . sheesh! perhaps he should try to get the whole roll of solder flowed into those joints. Many technicians fall prey to a lack of observation for the deduction of cause and effect. When you're soldering a terminal to a wire, the FIRST signs of solder appearing at the wire end of the joint is the sign to STOP . . . any more solder will not add useful features to the joint. I heard someone say don't solder wires as the vibrations will crack at some point? Yup, one of those decades old mantras that have been circulated and observed with reverence . . . I installed a battery cable last night and after crimping it I soldered it. Now if the solder cracks, it's still been crimped - so wouldn't that be the best of both worlds? No, unless he also observes the need for wire support outside EITHER a soldered or crimped joint. When you take a stranded wire and crimp it into a terminal, the stranding in the wire becomes just as solid as if it were soldered. See: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html and in particular . . http://aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/GL.jpg . . . here we see how the metal of the terminal and metal of the wire strands have become a single entity. This is NECESSARY for achievement of a gas-tight joint that will withstand the worst the environment can throw at it. If you review . . . http://aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf . . . you will see where I've described the importance of SUPPORT beyond the gas-tight joint . . . this applies whether the joint is soldered or crimped. There are practical exceptions. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/bndstrpl.jpg Here we see a finely stranded grounding jumper that has been soldered into terminals. The strands are so small and the flow of solder beyond the back of the joint is so limited as to pose no great risk to wire breakage when extra support is not provided. Some battery jumpers offered by B&C are assembled like this: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/sbl.jpg Here too the joints are soldered and the terminals fitted with rigid heat-shrink covers. This makes for a nicer looking assembly but the covers add little if any improvement in resistance to breaking for the very fine strands in the welding cable. I've considered this conversation some more last night and recalled that someone was concerned about "stress risers" in the wire. This is EXACTLY the point that makes the wire last . . . LACK of stress risers. The stranding is small so as to reduce stresses due to flexing (consider flexibility of 1/4" glass rod compared to Fiberglas strands in insulation). Review text and supporting figure 8-1 in the 'Connection. The Tefzel is a tough plastic . . . the term "plastic" implies flexibility while minimizing stress. The evolution of wire insulation materials from cotton covered rubber up through the present family of plastics has stepped to ever higher degrees of robustness and resistance to mechanical and chemical stresses. I was initially challenged by your request for the description of a repeatable experiment and after some consideration I came to realize that the supporting experiments in the case of wire have been carried out in the plastics laboratories for decades. Flexibility of the wire has not been an issue for 100+ years. Make the strands sufficiently fine and lost of strands due to flexing/vibration goes to zero. This leaves only the insulation which has taken quantum jumps about every 20 years to a level that makes the selection a VERY comfortable choice between materials that will in all likelihood outlast the airplane's service life by factors of 2-10 . . . This explains the relatively simple qualification requirements in Mil-W-22759. One wastes a lot of $time$ repeating tests that have no fallout. If there is no risk of a particular failure important to the design and application of a product, then there is no value in testing for that failure. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:45 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Securing small wires --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" sjhdcl@kingston.net wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sjhdcl@kingston.net > >I'm looking for an elegant way to secure a single wire (small 22 AWG) to >an aircraft part such as a rib. Too small for clamps unless build up wire >with electrical tape. Needs to be removable. Any neat iders? Perhaps just >a dab of 'Shoe Goo' or silicone. > >Steve >RV7A > > At 09:50 PM 5/26/2005 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken > >For just one or a couple of 22awg I like the self adhesive nylon wire >clips that the wires snap into. About 1/2" square. >For inaccessible places I use the rivet on nylon wire tie points and tie >the wire to them. Works for one or many wires as they come in multiple >sizes. >Commercially parts in small quantity run about 10 cents each for either. >Ken I was going to suggest these. Radio Shack used to stock them. No matter where you buy them, I would be wary of the adhesive's ability to withstand the rigors of temperature extremes. Few folks can match 3M when it comes to robustness of adhesives. We use these at RAC for non-critical support tasks like small bundles of wires. When using them in your OBAM project, I think I'd throw a pop-rivet into the center before mouting the wire(s) to it. If the surface is not conducive to use of screws or rivets, consider cleaning the adhesive pad off the bottom of the anchor and gluing the pad into place with E-6000. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:54 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Charging multiple batteries --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:22 PM 5/26/2005 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PTACKABURY@aol.com > >Bob et al: I have wired my Lancair IV with two batteries and one >alternator--an adaptation of the Z diagrams in your book. So as I >check out the >avionics and other electrically powered systems, I need to top up the >batteries. >The easiest way to do that is to turn on both battery switches and hook the >charger to the fat B field wire on the alternator (it is a TSIO-550, so the >alternator is easily reached thru the air inlet when the cowling is >installed). >Question: is this a good idea? >thanks, paul Funny you should ask. I was just finishing up an illustration of how to use the CBA-II battery analyzer as a data acquisition system for evaluating battery maintainers. I purchased an el-cheeso maintainer from Harbor Freight a few weeks ago but I've not had a chance to see how "smart" it is. http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/HF_Battery_Maintainer.jpg Also picked up a brand name (Schumacher) charger maintainer at Wallmart for about $18. I set it up to charge a dead car battery. I clipped the CBA-II across the battery to "test" it as a 16V, 8-cell, lead-acid battery with a discharge rate of 0.02 A. The charger chugged along and produced this peformance graph: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Battery_Maintenance/Schumacher_Bat_Maintainer.jpg Seems the $low$ item from Wallmart performs as expected and is about 1/2 the price of a Battery Tender, Jr and recharges almost twice as fast. I'm going to run the battery back down and then test the El-Cheeso from HF. In the mean time (to answer your question), if it were my airplane, I'd add a 3A fused maintainer circuit to the battery bus of both batteries. Arrange a connector let you plug in a pair of low cost maintainers, one for each battery. You need to be able to do this with EVERYTHING else in the airplane turned OFF and with zero risk of having a maintainer fuse open should you try to parallel a dead battery with a good one so that you can use a single maintainer. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:00 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Charging multiple batteries --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 09:08 AM 5/27/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > >At 08:22 PM 5/26/2005 -0400, you wrote: > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PTACKABURY@aol.com > > > >Bob et al: I have wired my Lancair IV with two batteries and one > >alternator--an adaptation of the Z diagrams in your book. So as I > >check out the > >avionics and other electrically powered systems, I need to top up the > >batteries. > >The easiest way to do that is to turn on both battery switches and hook the > >charger to the fat B field wire on the alternator (it is a TSIO-550, so the > >alternator is easily reached thru the air inlet when the cowling is > >installed). > >Question: is this a good idea? > >thanks, paul I think I missed the gist of your original inquiry. The problem you're posing is how to put power on the airplane for ground operations. The technique you describe is certainly functional. There are some cautions . . . if the "charger" is not a quiet power supply, there may be risks to system components if the charger is used to power up the airplane without the BEST filter in the airplane . . . BATTERIES. May I suggest that a ground power receptacle is in order? See figure Z-31 in . . . http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11B.pdf This connection will allow you to plug in a ground power cart for starting assist in cold weather. You can also plug in a high quality power supplies like: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=88758&item=5777099961&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48708&item=5777375867&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW and http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=99265&item=5775145551&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V for extended maintenance operations on the ground. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:32 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Automatic x-feed contactor control??? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Coments/Questions: Bob- First some background. I have already decided on a dual battery, dual alt for my IO-550 powered Velocity XL. I have the 70amp "main" alt and the B&C SD-20 "essential" alt. I have B&C regulators for both with warning lights for each. My plan was for a crossfeed switch "off,auto,on" position like you suggest. But I was NOT planning on ganging the buses together for starting. My plan was for your LOW volt module to hang off the essential bus and "auto" switch if it went down. If the main went down I would switch when workload permitted if at all. The essential is sized for running it's load for the endurance of the tanks. I planned on wiring a "Xfeed" warning light also. My problem is, I thought that your Low Voltage module would handle the "auto" switch feature. I have bought the bare board, compontents from Digikey and have the instructions. But looking more closely I see it's designed to close the crossfeed contactor when the things are good, not bad. What mod do I need to do to switch it's functionality around. The low voltage warning system was designed to handle AUX batteries, not the cross-feed contactor. Not easily done without adding more components. Why automate the crossfeed function. The whole idea about Figure Z-14 is to design a situation where one side can go down completely and NOT cause you to break a sweat. In this case, there is no urgency in doing anything to bring a black-system back up . . . further, the likelihood that any single failure will take a system to black is very rare. Your regulators are already fitted with low voltage warning lights. If any one of these lights comes on, there's no value in having the system automatically react to this condition. You're better off making a considered judgement as to WHEN the cross-feed will be closed and what items will be operated off the compromised bus. The automatic feature you contemplate adds complexity, cost of ownership, reduced reliability and adds no safety. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:31 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Charging multiple batteries From: "John Schroeder" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" Paul - We wired in the piper type adaptor per Bob's paper to the Z-14 diagram. We put the receptacle on the aft wall of the baggage compartment of our ES. We wired to male plug to a shop power supply we bought off of eBay and plug it into the receptacle. We use it all the time to trouble shoot the system. It was set for 13.6 volts and it runs both our busses at that voltage. Pics available if you need them. John >> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PTACKABURY@aol.com >> > >> >Bob et al: I have wired my Lancair IV with two batteries and one >> >alternator-- > >> May I suggest that a ground power receptacle is in order? See > figure Z-31 in . . . > > http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11B.pdf > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:01 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Securing small wires From: "Matt Prather" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" I've had trouble with these things falling off, unless I use a dab of 5minute epoxy to attach them. I slightly scuff-sand the place to be bonded to, mix up a blob of 5min and hold the tab in place with a piece of tape. None have dis-bonded that have been attached like this. The little sticky area in the center doesn't seem to cause any problems with epoxy. Additionally, I think you can buy these tabs without the sticky stuff, but I'll bet they are more money. Regards, Matt- > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > > > sjhdcl@kingston.net wrote: > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sjhdcl@kingston.net > > > >I'm looking for an elegant way to secure a single wire (small 22 AWG) > to an aircraft part such as a rib. Too small for clamps unless build > up wire with electrical tape. Needs to be removable. Any neat iders? > Perhaps just a dab of 'Shoe Goo' or silicone. > > > >Steve > >RV7A > > > > > > At 09:50 PM 5/26/2005 -0400, you wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken >> >>For just one or a couple of 22awg I like the self adhesive nylon wire >> clips that the wires snap into. About 1/2" square. >>For inaccessible places I use the rivet on nylon wire tie points and >> tie the wire to them. Works for one or many wires as they come in >> multiple sizes. >>Commercially parts in small quantity run about 10 cents each for >> either. Ken > > > I was going to suggest these. Radio Shack used to stock > them. No matter where you buy them, I would be wary of > the adhesive's ability to withstand the rigors of temperature > extremes. Few folks can match 3M when it comes to robustness > of adhesives. > > We use these at RAC for non-critical support tasks like > small bundles of wires. When using them in your OBAM project, > I think I'd throw a pop-rivet into the center before mouting > the wire(s) to it. If the surface is not conducive to use > of screws or rivets, consider cleaning the adhesive pad > off the bottom of the anchor and gluing the pad into place > with E-6000. > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:42 AM PST US From: "Mike Larkin" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Automatic x-feed contactor control??? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Larkin" I would agree with Bob (he is a god after all), I have the same basic system going into my Lancair Legacy illustrated in the comments/questions. Ponder this: if you have a bus short that causes a failure on one bus, would you want the bus to AUTO X-feed. Remember 1/2 a system is better then none at all... And if you have dual electronic ignitions you will need 1/2 the system.. Or one could transform their airplane into a glider. Mike Larkin -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Subject: AeroElectric-List: Automatic x-feed contactor control??? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Coments/Questions: Bob- First some background. I have already decided on a dual battery, dual alt for my IO-550 powered Velocity XL. I have the 70amp "main" alt and the B&C SD-20 "essential" alt. I have B&C regulators for both with warning lights for each. My plan was for a crossfeed switch "off,auto,on" position like you suggest. But I was NOT planning on ganging the buses together for starting. My plan was for your LOW volt module to hang off the essential bus and "auto" switch if it went down. If the main went down I would switch when workload permitted if at all. The essential is sized for running it's load for the endurance of the tanks. I planned on wiring a "Xfeed" warning light also. My problem is, I thought that your Low Voltage module would handle the "auto" switch feature. I have bought the bare board, compontents from Digikey and have the instructions. But looking more closely I see it's designed to close the crossfeed contactor when the things are good, not bad. What mod do I need to do to switch it's functionality around. The low voltage warning system was designed to handle AUX batteries, not the cross-feed contactor. Not easily done without adding more components. Why automate the crossfeed function. The whole idea about Figure Z-14 is to design a situation where one side can go down completely and NOT cause you to break a sweat. In this case, there is no urgency in doing anything to bring a black-system back up . . . further, the likelihood that any single failure will take a system to black is very rare. Your regulators are already fitted with low voltage warning lights. If any one of these lights comes on, there's no value in having the system automatically react to this condition. You're better off making a considered judgement as to WHEN the cross-feed will be closed and what items will be operated off the compromised bus. The automatic feature you contemplate adds complexity, cost of ownership, reduced reliability and adds no safety. Bob . . . -- -- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:25 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Securing small wires --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 10:17 AM 5/27/2005 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" > >I've had trouble with these things falling off, unless I use a dab of >5minute epoxy to attach them. I slightly scuff-sand the place to be >bonded to, mix up a blob of 5min and hold the tab in place with a piece of >tape. None have dis-bonded that have been attached like this. The little >sticky area in the center doesn't seem to cause any problems with epoxy. >Additionally, I think you can buy these tabs without the sticky stuff, but >I'll bet they are more money. I'll bet you're right. The ones we use at RAC are 3M products fitted with their VHB (very high bond) adhesive technologies. Somebody had to look at these pretty carefully before they allowed them on the airplane and then, I'm sure their use is restricted. Any other product should be applied with caution. I would caution also about use of any epoxy to grab onto either metal or plastic. When I did the bond-stud tests a couple of years ago we looked at various adhesives. The fast setting, pure plastic epoxies were the worst. Very moderate adhesion at room temp . . . poor at 160F. JB Weld was a little better: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Bond_Stud_A.jpg The best was E-6000 or "Sho-Goo" http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Bond_Stud_B.jpg This stuff hangs on well at 160F . . . the test illustrated held over 50# in sheer at 160+ degrees for the aluminum bond stud. I would expect similar performance for the nylon mounts. A pop-rivet through the center is probably the best overall. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:12:55 PM PST US From: "Vern W." Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Securing small wires --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Vern W." Add E-6000 to the mix as well. As an adhesive, it's almost magical. Vern ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Securing small wires > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > At 10:17 AM 5/27/2005 -0600, you wrote: > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" > > > >I've had trouble with these things falling off, unless I use a dab of > >5minute epoxy to attach them. I slightly scuff-sand the place to be > >bonded to, mix up a blob of 5min and hold the tab in place with a piece of > >tape. None have dis-bonded that have been attached like this. The little > >sticky area in the center doesn't seem to cause any problems with epoxy. > >Additionally, I think you can buy these tabs without the sticky stuff, but > >I'll bet they are more money. > > I'll bet you're right. The ones we use at RAC are 3M products fitted > with their VHB (very high bond) adhesive technologies. Somebody had > to look at these pretty carefully before they allowed them on the > airplane and then, I'm sure their use is restricted. Any other > product should be applied with caution. > > I would caution also about use of any epoxy to grab onto either > metal or plastic. When I did the bond-stud tests a couple of > years ago we looked at various adhesives. The fast setting, pure > plastic epoxies were the worst. Very moderate adhesion > at room temp . . . poor at 160F. > > JB Weld was a little better: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Bond_Stud_A.jpg > > The best was E-6000 or "Sho-Goo" > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Bond_Stud_B.jpg > > This stuff hangs on well at 160F . . . the test > illustrated held over 50# in sheer at 160+ degrees > for the aluminum bond stud. > > I would expect similar performance for the nylon > mounts. A pop-rivet through the center is probably the > best overall. > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Securing small wires From: "John Schroeder" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" Bob - We bought some of these from you and absolutely love them. I know you are out of them, but if you get a line on some more, let us know. I've looked all over the internet and could find none that could fill their shoes. We used E-6000 and have four #2 welding cables hanging off of them and they are solid. John On Fri, 27 May 2005 13:19:42 -0500, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > I would caution also about use of any epoxy to grab onto either > metal or plastic. When I did the bond-stud tests a couple of > years ago we looked at various adhesives. -- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:33:20 PM PST US From: "Bryan Hooks" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Calculating Electrical Load --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bryan Hooks" Would you believe I had almost 1700 emails when I got home? Talk to ya when you get back in town. I'm anxious to find out what info you got on this subject. Just off the top of my head - and I may be way off base - but shouldn't it take the same amount of power to operate the device? So 5.19V x 1.05A = 5.45W , and therefore 5.45W / 14V = .39Amps? Anyway - see ya' soon. -bh -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SMITHBKN@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Calculating Electrical Load --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SMITHBKN@aol.com I've just getting started on the electrical system of my RV-7A. I have the AeroElectric Connection book and I've read it, but being a rookie on things electrical I'm going to need some help. I've started calculating loads for the system that I would like to have and I'm not sure how to handle components that are rated for a voltage different than the voltage of the system on the plane. For example, I have a roll servo, built by Superior Electric, that has on the spec plate the following information: Stepping Motor Type KML061F02 5.19 VDC 1.05 AMP I assume my plane's system voltage while operating normally will be "about 14 volts" according to information on page 2-8 of AeroElectric Connection. So, in order to calculate the amperage required to run the servo motor do I use the 1.05 amp shown on the spec plate, or do I need to calculate a new amperage using the 14 volt system voltage that will be supplied to the motor by my plane's alternator? If it is the latter, am I doing the calculation correctly? Volts = Amps X Resistance 5.19 V = 1.05 amp X (unknown) 5.19 V/1.05 amp = 4.94 ohms Then, substituting the know resistance back into the same formula I can calculate a new amperage for the 14 volt situation: 14 V = (unknown amps) X 4.94 ohms 14 V/4.94 ohms = 2.8 amps So, for my load calculations on my system I would have to use a 2.8 amp value for the current needed to run the motor. Is this correct? I suppose the motor could have some sort of internal step-down function that takes the 14 V system voltage and reduces it to 5.19 V stated on the spec plate, but I have no idea if this is how things like this work. I know this is basic stuff, but I really appreciate someone's help. Jeff ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:33 PM PST US From: "Mike Larkin" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: PDA power --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Larkin" The PDA system from anywhere map comes with the proper adapter. Most if not all PDA's use Lithium-ion or Lithium polymer batteries which use a constant voltage charging system. If you try to use a Ni-cad type charger you will trip the circuit protection of the battery. If the battery doesn't have a protection circuit you will cook the battery or possibly start a fire. So always use the correct adapter/charger when using these types of devices. Mike Larkin -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Swartout Subject: AeroElectric-List: PDA power --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Swartout" Are any of you using PDA's or Pocket PC's such as Dell Axim or HP iPAQ to run GPS moving map navigation programs such as AnywhereMap or MountainScope or TeleType, and here is my question: Are you using batteries to run this device, or feeding it from your airplane's electrical system? I haven't seen in the specifications for any of these devices how many volts they run on (I don't own one yet), nor whether they can run on external power sources. Also, if you are using a separate GPS receiver, either Bluetooth or wired, to feed the PDA, are you running THAT on batteries, does it receive power from the PDA, or are you running it from ship's power? Bottom line, to save $$$ on batteries and avoid the nuisance of wanting to start a trip and not having any charged Ni-cad's on hand, I would like to supply these devices--GPS receiver and PDA, from ship's power, and would like to know the best way to supply the correct voltage. I have read numerous posts on the subject of converting DC to DC of a different voltage but nothing definitive. Thanks in advance. John -- -- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:55 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Securing small wires --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 05/27/2005 2:14:13 PM Central Standard Time, vernw@ev1.net writes: Add E-6000 to the mix as well. As an adhesive, it's almost magical. >>>> If this is the same as GOOP, I gotta agree- Isn't this the stuff Grumman used to skin their singles? 8-) Mark ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:01 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Securing small wires --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:15 PM 5/27/2005 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com > >In a message dated 05/27/2005 2:14:13 PM Central Standard Time, vernw@ev1.net >writes: >Add E-6000 to the mix as well. As an adhesive, it's almost magical. > >>>> > >If this is the same as GOOP, I gotta agree- Isn't this the stuff Grumman >used to skin their singles? 8-) The stuff is sold under a ton of brand names including GOOP who sells lots of stickums besides the E-6000. Hobby lobby and most hardware stores handle E-6000 as does Walmart in the hobbies/crafts department. As far as I know right now, it's only offered in water-clear formulations and uses trichlorethane or similar as a solvent . . . it's reminiscent of the smell you get in a dry-cleaning establishment. This is a solvent based adhesive that would be vulnerable to hydrocarbons . . . it also takes quite awhile to reach full strength especially in deep sections. Don't load the joint for 24 hours and 48 is better. Once set up, it's quite tenacious. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:38 PM PST US From: "David Burton" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Securing small wires --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Burton" > The stuff is sold under a ton of brand names including GOOP who > sells lots of stickums besides the E-6000. Hobby lobby and most > hardware stores handle E-6000 as does Walmart in the hobbies/crafts > department. > > As far as I know right now, it's only offered in water-clear > formulations and uses trichlorethane or similar as a solvent . . . > it's reminiscent of the smell you get in a dry-cleaning > establishment. This is a solvent based adhesive that would be > vulnerable to hydrocarbons . . . it also takes quite awhile > to reach full strength especially in deep sections. Don't > load the joint for 24 hours and 48 is better. From our buddies at McMaster-Carr: High-Strength Adhesives/Sealants As the industrial version of Goop, these elastomeric adhesives bond and seal spaces in metal, wood, glass, some plastics (including ABS, acrylic, polycarbonate, and PVC), composites, tile, cement, rubber, leather, and vinyl. They stay flexible for use on dissimilar materials and can be painted. Begin to harden in 4-5 minutes; reach full strength in 24-72 hours. Application temperature range is +70 to +85 F. Operating temperature range is -40 to +150 F. Color is clear. The 10.2-oz cartridges fit a standard caulk gun. Note: Will dissolve or soften when used with solvents such as gasoline and toluene. Standard- For indoor use. Resists acids and caustics. Marine- For outdoor use. Resists yellowing when exposed to sunlight. Can be used as an underwater sealant. Excellent resistance to saltwater spray and corrosives. Nonsagging- Ideal for indoor overhead and vertical use. Standard Marine Nonsagging Size Each Each Each 3.7-oz. Tube 7475A65 $4.27 7475A67 $6.36 -- -- 10.2-oz. Cartridge 7475A66 6.13 7475A68 7.67 7475A69 $6.51 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:22 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Securing small wires --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > From our buddies at McMaster-Carr: > >High-Strength Adhesives/Sealants > As the industrial version of Goop, these elastomeric adhesives bond and >seal spaces in metal, wood, glass, some plastics (including ABS, acrylic, >polycarbonate, and PVC), composites, tile, cement, rubber, leather, and >vinyl. They stay flexible for use on dissimilar materials and can be >painted. Begin to harden in 4-5 minutes; reach full strength in 24-72 hours. >Application temperature range is +70 to +85 F. Operating temperature >range is -40 to +150 F. Color is clear. The 10.2-oz cartridges fit a >standard caulk gun. Note: Will dissolve or soften when used with solvents >such as gasoline and toluene. > Standard- For indoor use. Resists acids and caustics. Marine- For >outdoor use. Resists yellowing when exposed to sunlight. Can be used as an >underwater sealant. Excellent resistance to saltwater spray and corrosives. >Nonsagging- Ideal for indoor overhead and vertical use. > Standard Marine Nonsagging >Size Each Each Each > >3.7-oz. Tube 7475A65 $4.27 > 7475A67 $6.36 > -- -- > >10.2-oz. Cartridge 7475A66 6.13 > 7475A68 7.67 > 7475A69 $6.51 Here's the poop from the folks who make it and I think rebrand it for everyone else. http://www.gluguru.com/1_part_adhesives.htm#Eclectic I think we get the 3.7 oz tubes at Wallmart and Hobby Lobby for under $3 each. Bob . . .