Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:07 AM - NiMH Batteries (Pat Salvati)
2. 07:33 AM - Re: Headset pains (bobsv35b@aol.com)
3. 07:45 AM - LRI Audio Warning Wanted (PeterHunt1@aol.com)
4. 08:42 AM - Re: Z-13/8 Drawing (Scott Winn)
5. 08:57 AM - Re: NiHM Batteries (Scott Winn)
6. 10:37 AM - Re: Re: NiHM Batteries (Dave Nellis)
7. 10:38 AM - Contactor vs Power Relay (Mark Sletten)
8. 10:52 AM - Re: NiMH Batteries (Mike Larkin)
9. 11:08 AM - Re: Contactor vs Power Relay (Dave Morris \)
10. 11:08 AM - Re: Contactor vs Power Relay (alejandroecheverria)
11. 11:09 AM - Re: Re: NiHM Batteries (alejandroecheverria)
12. 12:19 PM - Re: NiMH Batteries (DonVS)
13. 03:49 PM - Re: Charging the battery through the E-bus diode (chad-c_sip@stanfordalumni.org)
14. 05:53 PM - Cordless drill - anyone know amp hours? (Richard Riley)
15. 08:10 PM - Re: Cordless drill - anyone know amp hours? (Tom Brusehaver)
16. 09:29 PM - Re: RV-List: Dynon D-10A Ticking (Jerry Isler)
17. 09:48 PM - Re: Contactor vs Power Relay (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Pat Salvati <pats4p@sbcglobal.net>
Is there any good reason, safety standpoint, that NiMH batteries should not be
used in an aircraft. I have a dual alternator dual battery ship I'm building ,
NiMH battery packs come in some very attractive packaging versus 28v RG battery
dimensions. The only one that I have come across is the one from B+C (7.5 AH
or 11 AH) that would fit for me. Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Pat
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Headset pains |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: bobsv35b@aol.com
Good Morning Larry,
This may not be applicable to your situation, but I did have a similar difficulty
with headsets for my diminutive wife. She absolutely refused to use any headset
I tried including older Bose headsets.
One day at Oshkosh, she was walking past the Bose tent and they were pitching their
wares by offering something to listen to that interested my little lady.
After trying the Bose X headsets, she came back to our tent and informed that
she wanted a set. I purchased a unit for her and she has been a happy user for
the last three years.
I know you stated that you wanted a passive set, but if you do not have electricity
to power them, they are available with a nice long lasting small battery
powered cord.
I am certain we all agree that headset use is a very subjective thing, but the
Bose Xs are the first ones that made my significant other happy and I do believe
we had previously tried every other brand, including earlier Bose units, that
anybody has ever offered!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman 3977A
Downers Grove, IL
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Headset pains
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Hi Guys,
My wife is a small gal and the headphone bows become a vise on the ears
and pain
at the top of the skull after too short a time. Has anyone seen a set
of headphones
that are lighter and smaller that were capable of passive noise
cancellation in a
light enclosed aircraft? Sennheiser have a set that has a double bows
but are
designed for jets. Not sure if they would be correct for conventional
engine noise.
Any recommendations for this problem?
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
Message 3
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| Subject: | LRI Audio Warning Wanted |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PeterHunt1@aol.com
I have a Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI) and want to add an audio warning to it.
Has anyone experimented with a pressure differential switch (the LRI needle
operates by indicating pressure differential) to actuate a warning tone in
your headset? The LRI manufacturer has told me for three years he is working on
this. I am tired of waiting for something he is likely not going to develop
and want to develop something on my own.
Pete - Clearwater, FL
RV-6, all electric panel
Getting ready for first flight.
Message 4
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| Subject: | RE: Z-13/8 Drawing |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Winn <sbwinn@gmail.com>
Chris,
You want the S701-1 for the Z-13/8 master battery contactor. S701-1
and S702-1 are the same physical 4 terminal contactor device with
different external wiring. B&C pre-wires them into either the -1
configuration for battery contactors, and the -2 configuration for
crossfeed contactor applications.
As for the low voltage warning, I also have the GRT EFIS system. I am
using the B&C lightweight alernator & their regulator as well. Their
regulator has a low volt warning out. The GRT EFIS has a voltage
warning ability that should provide the same funcitionality. It might
be nice to have an external low voltage indicator, I really think it
is up to your own preference. Bob sells the board described in this Z
diagram at his web site as either abare board or a kit with the parts:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
--Scott
San Diego
Message 5
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| Subject: | RE: NiHM Batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Winn <sbwinn@gmail.com>
I don't think safety is going to be the biggest concern with using
NiMH batteries. They have a very different charge profile than Sealed
Lead Acid batteries and will require the use of a special charger or
voltage regulator. I'm sure it is possible but I wouldn't know where
to get the required components. Possibly standard regulators can be
adapted?
Another issue may be self discharge. NiMH batteries typically have a
higher rate of self discharge than the Sealed Lead Acid batteries do,
so just sitting they will slowly lose their charge which isn't nice if
you don't fly your airplane for a while.
I know that NiCD batteries heat up, explode and can catch on fire if
severely overcharged. I have seen it in person. I believe NiMH also
heat up as they become overcharged, I have never pushed one past the
'full' mark before, do they have the same ftype of failure if severly
overcharged?
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RE: NiHM Batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Nellis <truflite@yahoo.com>
I fly radio control aircraft and have used NiHM
batteries. They do require a dedicated charging
system. A charger for NiCad's should not even be
used, let alone an aircraft charging system.
Dave
--- Scott Winn <sbwinn@gmail.com> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Winn
> <sbwinn@gmail.com>
>
> I don't think safety is going to be the biggest
> concern with using
> NiMH batteries. They have a very different charge
> profile than Sealed
> Lead Acid batteries and will require the use of a
> special charger or
> voltage regulator. I'm sure it is possible but I
> wouldn't know where
> to get the required components. Possibly standard
> regulators can be
> adapted?
>
> Another issue may be self discharge. NiMH batteries
> typically have a
> higher rate of self discharge than the Sealed Lead
> Acid batteries do,
> so just sitting they will slowly lose their charge
> which isn't nice if
> you don't fly your airplane for a while.
>
> I know that NiCD batteries heat up, explode and can
> catch on fire if
> severely overcharged. I have seen it in person. I
> believe NiMH also
> heat up as they become overcharged, I have never
> pushed one past the
> 'full' mark before, do they have the same ftype of
> failure if severly
> overcharged?
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 7
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| Subject: | Contactor vs Power Relay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Sletten" <marknlisa@hometel.com>
Bob and/or other expert,
What's the difference between the Aeroelectric Connection recommended
battery contactor and a high-amperage automotive power relay such as
this: http://www.wiringproducts.com/?target=dept_96.html
Scroll down a bit and you'll find a Bosch 75AMP power relay. This seem
ideal to use in lieu of the bulky contactor and all it's associated
diodes and such. What am I missing?
Mark
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Larkin" <mlas@cox.net>
The only down side I can think of is you would have to integrate a
charger system. Also NiMH tend to loose their charger over short
periods of time (two weeks to a month).
Mike Larkin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat
Salvati
Subject: AeroElectric-List: NiMH Batteries
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Pat Salvati
<pats4p@sbcglobal.net>
Is there any good reason, safety standpoint, that NiMH batteries should
not be used in an aircraft. I have a dual alternator dual battery ship
I'm building , NiMH battery packs come in some very attractive packaging
versus 28v RG battery dimensions. The only one that I have come across
is the one from B+C (7.5 AH or 11 AH) that would fit for me. Any input
would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Pat
--
--
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Contactor vs Power Relay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
If you run your starter through it, what is the max current your starter
will draw?
Dave Morris
At 12:38 PM 5/30/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Sletten"
><marknlisa@hometel.com>
>
>Bob and/or other expert,
>
>What's the difference between the Aeroelectric Connection recommended
>battery contactor and a high-amperage automotive power relay such as
>this: http://www.wiringproducts.com/?target=dept_96.html
>
>Scroll down a bit and you'll find a Bosch 75AMP power relay. This seem
>ideal to use in lieu of the bulky contactor and all it's associated
>diodes and such. What am I missing?
>
>Mark
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Contactor vs Power Relay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "alejandroecheverria" <alejandroecheverria@hotmail.com>
FUCK YOU
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Sletten" <marknlisa@hometel.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Contactor vs Power Relay
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Sletten"
<marknlisa@hometel.com>
>
> Bob and/or other expert,
>
> What's the difference between the Aeroelectric Connection recommended
> battery contactor and a high-amperage automotive power relay such as
> this: http://www.wiringproducts.com/?target=dept_96.html
>
> Scroll down a bit and you'll find a Bosch 75AMP power relay. This seem
> ideal to use in lieu of the bulky contactor and all it's associated
> diodes and such. What am I missing?
>
> Mark
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RE: NiHM Batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "alejandroecheverria" <alejandroecheverria@hotmail.com>
FUCK YOU
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Nellis" <truflite@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: NiHM Batteries
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Nellis <truflite@yahoo.com>
>
> I fly radio control aircraft and have used NiHM
> batteries. They do require a dedicated charging
> system. A charger for NiCad's should not even be
> used, let alone an aircraft charging system.
>
> Dave
> --- Scott Winn <sbwinn@gmail.com> wrote:
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Winn
> > <sbwinn@gmail.com>
> >
> > I don't think safety is going to be the biggest
> > concern with using
> > NiMH batteries. They have a very different charge
> > profile than Sealed
> > Lead Acid batteries and will require the use of a
> > special charger or
> > voltage regulator. I'm sure it is possible but I
> > wouldn't know where
> > to get the required components. Possibly standard
> > regulators can be
> > adapted?
> >
> > Another issue may be self discharge. NiMH batteries
> > typically have a
> > higher rate of self discharge than the Sealed Lead
> > Acid batteries do,
> > so just sitting they will slowly lose their charge
> > which isn't nice if
> > you don't fly your airplane for a while.
> >
> > I know that NiCD batteries heat up, explode and can
> > catch on fire if
> > severely overcharged. I have seen it in person. I
> > believe NiMH also
> > heat up as they become overcharged, I have never
> > pushed one past the
> > 'full' mark before, do they have the same ftype of
> > failure if severly
> > overcharged?
> >
> >
> >
> > browse
> > Subscriptions page,
> > FAQ,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DonVS" <dsvs@comcast.net>
Nimh batteries have very low tolerence for vibration. I lost a couple of rc
helicopters as a result. I went back to Nicad's and have had no problems.
Just my 2 cents. Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike
Larkin
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: NiMH Batteries
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Larkin" <mlas@cox.net>
The only down side I can think of is you would have to integrate a
charger system. Also NiMH tend to loose their charger over short
periods of time (two weeks to a month).
Mike Larkin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat
Salvati
Subject: AeroElectric-List: NiMH Batteries
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Pat Salvati
<pats4p@sbcglobal.net>
Is there any good reason, safety standpoint, that NiMH batteries should
not be used in an aircraft. I have a dual alternator dual battery ship
I'm building , NiMH battery packs come in some very attractive packaging
versus 28v RG battery dimensions. The only one that I have come across
is the one from B+C (7.5 AH or 11 AH) that would fit for me. Any input
would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Pat
--
--
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Charging the battery through the E-bus diode |
Z-USANET-MsgId: XID948JedwSy0043X36
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: chad-c_sip@stanfordalumni.org
As I read the schematic you're correct. I suppose this situation could happen
if you've really flattened your battery during a difficult start-up then
didn't allow the alternator to recharge the battery very soon after
(disengaged the alternator or master contactor).
If you're really worried about that failure mode you can simply oversize your
diode connecting the master to the endurance bus. A quick search of Allied
Electronics lists power diodes capable of passing 20A for about $20 up to
about $80 for 100A. Depending on how big your alternator is you could go with
one of those (and a big heat sink mind you!).
But if you're in a situation where your alternator is capable of producing
enough current to fry your e-bus diode, why would you want to shut off the
main bus contactor? I suppose if you had a battery failure AND a main bus
contactor you could get into this situation - but now we're getting into the
realm of really low odds I think.
Chad
Chad Sipperley
Lancair IVP-turbine (under construction)
Phoenix, AZ
------ Original Message ------
From: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Charging the battery through the E-bus diode
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\""
<BigD@DaveMorris.com>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> I'm wiring my plane pretty much according to Z-16, with some minor mods
> since I'm using a coil and points based ignition system on my Corvair
> engine and have implemented an Always-Hot bus.
>
> In studying the schematic and trying to list all possible failures and
> their impact, I began wondering about battery failures. So I have some
> questions. I think these would have to involve in-flight battery failures,
> (let's say one dead cell), so they may be extremely rare, but I wonder
still:
>
> 1. If you open the battery contactor and close the E-bus switch in flight,
> and the battery needs a lot of charging, the alternator will attempt to do
> so through the E-bus diode, which could presumably blow if the charge
> current is high enough. Will it ever get that high? I've got a B&C heat
> sink on mine.
>
> 2. I'm using a John Deere (PM) dynamo with a regulator whose supply pin is
> connected to the main bus. The battery fails for some reason. I have a
> big electrolytic cap on the output, so everything is fine and dandy, but
> while trying to diagnose what exactly is happening, let's say I make the
> mistake of pulling the dynamo breaker. I will not be able to reset the
> breaker or do anything else to get the dynamo back online, because there is
> no supply voltage to power the regulator.
>
> So maybe these are very rare, and could be easily overcome by simply using
> two 17ah batteries instead of a single larger battery. Am I wasting my
> time worrying about these?
>
> Thanks,
> Dave Morris
> www.DaveMorris.com/Dave/DFly.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Cordless drill - anyone know amp hours? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley <richard@riley.net>
I'm thinking of using the batteries from a couple of 12 or 14 volt cordless
drills for a non-aircraft application. I figure buy 2 from Harbor Freight
($10 of $15 each) cut one apart and save the handle, turn it upside down
and attach it to the Infernal Device.
I'd have 2 batteries and a charger, so I could swap them whenever
needed. But experience shows I need about 2.5-3AH for the
application. Anyone know if these battery packs come close to that?
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Cordless drill - anyone know amp hours? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tom Brusehaver" <cozytom@mn.rr.com>
I bought one of the HF 18V cordless drills. It seems
they work, butare kinda wimpy (compared to the bosch/
craftsman type). I don't think their batteries are that
good either.
I've been replacing the 1200MAh nicads in the stock packs
with after market 2000MAh Ni cads. Depending on your charger
metal hydride, and lithium ion aren't directly replacable.
They may also not be suitable. They use the sub-C batteries
and getting the ones with tabs is the easiest way.
It might work.
On Mon, 30 May 2005 17:50:23 -0700, Richard Riley <richard@RILEY.NET>
wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley
> <richard@riley.net>
>
> I'm thinking of using the batteries from a couple of 12 or 14 volt
> cordless
> drills for a non-aircraft application. I figure buy 2 from Harbor
> Freight
> ($10 of $15 each) cut one apart and save the handle, turn it upside down
> and attach it to the Infernal Device.
>
> I'd have 2 batteries and a charger, so I could swap them whenever
> needed. But experience shows I need about 2.5-3AH for the
> application. Anyone know if these battery packs come close to that?
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RV-List: Dynon D-10A Ticking |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Isler" <jlisler@alltel.net>
I think I have figured out what is going on with my Dynon D-10A. It appears
that if you have the keep alive circuit wired up to the Dynon and you let
the main bus voltage drop to 10.5 volts or so due to not maintaining the
proper charge on the main battery, the keep alive circuit cannot function
properly due to the low voltage on it's input. At this low voltage it will
start making an audible ticking noise as it tries to keep the internal
battery charged. However it cannot properly charge the battery in this
condition. The Dynon internal battery indicates slightly greater than 16
volts when charged and the charging circuit is normally operating at ~ 13
volts on it's input. Through some magic the Dynon internal charging circuit
output has to be greater than 16 volts to keep the battery charged. Now that
I have a full charge on the PC-680 everything is working fine. No more
ticking.
Be aware if you hear your Dynon ticking. Your ships bus voltage is probably
low. Also the Dynon will not power up if it's voltage drops below some
voltage threshold. I do not know this exact voltage.
Jerry Isler
RV-4 N455J
Donalsonville, GA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Isler" <jlisler@alltel.net>
Subject: RV-List: Dynon D-10A Ticking
> So now for the real question. I have noticed lately that the Dyon D-10A
> was making a ticking noise when everything on the plane was turned off.
The
> tick is about every second. I have the keep alive circuit wired up to an
> always hot bus so that the internal battery in the Dynon will stay charged
> up. I think the noise is from this circuit because I disconnected the
> connector from the back of the Dynon and the noise stopped and resumed
when
> it was reconnected. Is this ticking noise normal? Could this be the cause
of
> my dead battery? Will a dead battery on the plane drain the internal
battery
> on the Dynon? Will a PC-680 go completely dead if you let the voltage get
> down to about 10.5 volts (I have not charged the battery in a while)?
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Contactor vs Power Relay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 12:38 PM 5/30/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Sletten"
><marknlisa@hometel.com>
>
>Bob and/or other expert,
>
>What's the difference between the Aeroelectric Connection recommended
>battery contactor and a high-amperage automotive power relay such as
>this: http://www.wiringproducts.com/?target=dept_96.html
>
>Scroll down a bit and you'll find a Bosch 75AMP power relay. This seem
>ideal to use in lieu of the bulky contactor and all it's associated
>diodes and such. What am I missing?
I have no idea. Without specifics as to the ratings and
termination techniques for these products, I cannot accurately
assess their suitability as battery contactors. Do you
have a specific part number from Bosch and/or can point
me to a data sheet?
Bob . . .
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