Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:20 AM - LRI Audio Warning Wanted (PeterHunt1@aol.com)
2. 06:08 AM - Instrument Panel labels (Eric M. Jones)
3. 06:56 AM - Load analysis - resources (Paul Folbrecht)
4. 07:08 AM - Re: Drawing Z-11 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:33 AM - Re: Re: NiMH Batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 08:45 AM - Re: Re: NiMH Batteries (Ronald J. Parigoris)
7. 09:03 AM - Re: Re: NiMH Batteries (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
8. 09:08 AM - Re: LRI Audio Warning Wanted (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 09:33 AM - Re: Re: NiMH Batteries (Ronald J. Parigoris)
10. 09:37 AM - Re: LRI Audio Warning Wanted (Dan Brown)
11. 10:01 AM - OT - AOPA fly-in (rd2@evenlink.com)
12. 10:43 AM - Re: Load analysis - resources (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 10:52 AM - Re: Re: NiMH Batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 10:54 AM - Re: LRI Audio Warning Wanted (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 12:14 PM - Re: Re: NiMH Batteries (Ronald J. Parigoris)
16. 12:56 PM - "Preferred architecture" for all-electric IFR RV with 1 EI and 1 (Paul Folbrecht)
17. 12:56 PM - Re: Load analysis - resources (rv-9a-online)
18. 01:29 PM - Re: Load analysis - resources (Dave Morris)
19. 01:47 PM - Re: Load analysis - resources (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
20. 04:42 PM - Z13/8 (DonVS)
21. 06:03 PM - Re: Load analysis - resources (rv-9a-online)
22. 06:03 PM - Re: Z13/8 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 07:37 PM - loose connection trips OVP (Ken)
24. 09:52 PM - Brass Buss Bar (Michael Ashura)
25. 11:32 PM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (dralle@matronics.com)
26. 11:45 PM - Re: Headset pains (randall)
Message 1
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| Subject: | LRI Audio Warning Wanted |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PeterHunt1@aol.com
Hi Bob,
Thanks for helping me understand that a pressure transducer switch on my LRI
will be complex and expensive. I may play with a Digikey pressure sensor and
will let everyone know if I come up with a practical solution.
No, I do not plan close tolerance approaches. My LRI sits right next to my
air speed indicator and between the two I should have no trouble making safe
approaches. I just thought a warning tone associated with my LRI would be a
nice feature and so I asked.
Yes, my RV-6 is out of the living room and at South Lakeland. The prop goes
on this week, so I'll be lighting the engine soon. You will remember that I
have your latest and greatest Z-10 (all electric airplane with 20-amp E-bus)
wiring system.
Pete Hunt, Clearwater
RV-6, almost ready for first flight
Message 2
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| Subject: | Instrument Panel labels |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Here is an approach to labeling panels in the airplane:
Inkjet and LaserJet decals.
http://www.decal-paper.com/index.html
Throw a cartridge of fluorescent ink into your inkjet---
http://www.ink4art.com/
Add a UV led into your brow lighting and watch these babies glow.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
"Nothing is too wonderful to be true."
James Clerk Maxwell, discoverer of electromagnetism
"Too much of a good thing can be wonderful."
Mae West, discoverer of personal magnetism
Message 3
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| Subject: | Load analysis - resources |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht <paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com>
Is there a resource out there listing current draws for all the popular
avionics? And perhaps accessories like common heated pitots? Would be a quick
way to put together your max load figure.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Drawing Z-11 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 08:50 AM 5/31/2005 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tom & Carol Strong <tstrong@ida.net>
>
>I am getting ready to wire up my RV 9 using the Z-11 plan 12/02 version.
>I just noticed on Bob's web site there is a newer version of Z-11 from 4/05.
>Is the 12/02 version using the LR-3 alternator controller no longer
>acceptable?
NOTHING that's presented in the 'Connection and I would hope
very little of what appears here on the List is offered
as "acceptable" or "not acceptable" . . .
Z-11 is an assemblage of ideas. You may find that some ideas
from Z-14, Z-28, or any other figure would be useful if
incorporated into Z-11. There may be things in Z-11 you don't
need/want and will toss out.
If you have focused your attention on Z-11 as depicting
either upper or lower bounds on functionality, please take
the time to review the notes that accompany ALL of the
Z-figures and then post any questions you have here on the List.
If you have deep roots in certified aviation, I understand
how foreign this concept may be. I work in that environment too
and sometimes feel that we're working with one foot in a
bucket of concrete and the other in a fire. Let's pull your
foot from the "bucket" and address your specific question:
The LR-3 is a useful assemblage of regulator, ov protection
and low voltage warning that has a long and successful track
record in the OBAM aircraft industry. It is beginning to make
its mark in the certified side as well. It should be considered
as one option in configuring your electrical system.
Further, there are other options that include purchasing (or
even building) your own regulator, ov protection and/or low
voltage monitoring appliances and putting them together as
illustrated in Z-11 (and others) to achieve the desired
functionality.
If you could use supporting input from other builders in
you decision-making processes, you've come to the right place.
How may we assist you?
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: NiMH Batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 10:38 AM 5/31/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>
> <snip>
>
> > I think I would recommend that NiMH be limited to portable
> > power such has handhelds and then if maintained at home in
> > chargers specific to the characteristics of the cells. Bob . . .
>
>My advice is to go ahead and try it. This is an EXPERIMENTAL list. Just keep
>good notes and report back.
Let's try to be a bit more helpful . . .
Hey Pat, can you elaborate on how you thought you might
incorporate this technology into your airplane? Have you
observed any specific products in NiMH technology that
appeared to have utility in some task you're considering?
We're seeing NiMH technology pop up in the larger COTS
(commercial off-the-shelf) cell sizes. See:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50624&item=5777388815&rd=1
This product suggests that we could assemble 10 each
of the 5.3 oz cells for a total weight on the order of
3.5 pounds to achieve over 9 a.h. of capacity. Not bad
compared to 8-10 pounds for the same capacity in SVLA.
To achieve VERY reliable inter-cell connections, we'd have
to find cells with welded tabs or solder our own lead wires
on as described in:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery_Solder_1.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery_Solder_2.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery_Solder_3.jpg
There are questions to be asked and answered will set
your design goals and ultimately drive the go/no-go
decision to incorporate the technology in your project.
Do you care about the relatively fast self discharge
rate of the NiMH/NiCac class of energy storage devices
(on the order of 1%/day)?
How well would this array of cells perform if simply
tied to a bus for charging/discharging like a SVLA battery?
Are there special qualities of the NiMH cell above
weight that suggest these critters could take on a
role in your project?
Keep in mind that performance includes issues like
cost of ownership where you have to "build" your own
battery and perhaps take special steps to monitor
battery condition and then take action to refurbish
or replace based on your findings. This probably won't
be a plug-n-play device from Batteries-R-Us.
Certainly the weight savings are attractive as long
as the $time$ it takes to purchase, fabricate, install,
monitor and maintain doesn't stack so deep as to
make it more attractive to simply shed a few pounds
from one's bod and install an SVLA product instead.
This would be an excellent design study topic for
discussion here on the List . . . Pat, since you tossed
the first ball up, let us know what drove your
original thoughts and let's see if we can help
expand and amplify the spectrum of ideas that
you'll need to make a considered decision.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: NiMH Batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
I fly Model Electric Aeroplanes. I plan on carrying around with my Europa XS Monowheel
with 914 rotax.
There are plenty of NiMhs around, and they are far from robust if you begin to
draw some
amps from them. Since not too long ago, GP (Gold Peak) is making a can Sub C cell
that has
a capacity of 3700mAs. Hotliner guys are pulling 150 plus amps from these!!! mind
you
general for under 5 second bursts. These things are pretty happy at dumping 50
amps plus
for their entire capacity. OK since i will have these cells on board anyway, i
will design
model for 12 cells (~14.4V). If I have a problem starting the 914, I will just
put 2 packs
in series with starter. The alternator will not put out enough to charge these,
but would
not leave them on line once motor starts.
In event electrical quits to my electric fuel pumps, I will have a quick insert
battery
for aux. pump.
If you overcharge a NiMh they can explode or have a major meltdown. The very best
way to
charge them for easy use and max. life is 1/10C for ` 150 hours, so you would need
a
constant amp charger. For maximum amp dump, you need these cells fairly warm. So
if you
charge with a Delta Peak Charger at 2C, that is a good start point. Easier on the
cell is
a 1C charge, but these new cells may accept 3 or more C and not hurt them. I have
not
fooled with them yet, but am using about 2 revisions old technology.
I will have a integral peak charger built into aeroplane so i can charge models.
This is the way I will be using them. If I were to consider use actual in system
all the
time, I would look pretty hard at the Red top or Red hat high dump amps Lead Acid
in the
circuit all the time. That battery is used on large 2 strokes, and will probably
bearly
start a 914. I would supplement start ups with a 12 or 13 cell pack as described
that
could be brought on line for starting, or if the lead acid/charger quit. It would
have a
delta peak charger integral that would be manual started.
Usual when a pack begins to go south, you just loose capacity, and drop voltage
under
load.Once in a while a cell will internal open. That is always fun when you are
running
your radio off the pack.
Ron Parigoris
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: NiMH Batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
All this talk of weight is a bit funny to me...I mean there I am
designing my Auto fuel friendly pump system that involves two wing root
mounted pumps and no mechanical pump and designing a redundant power
supply...Oh My an extra battery or Sd-8 could add 10 pounds...Gasp!
Then I realise that I weigh 145 and my Wife 125 ....hey I'm 50 pounds
ahead of most RV builders before I even start!....:)
Maybe I really could squeeze an IO 540 on the nose in place of the 360
after all....Just kidding..:)
Frank
Do not archive
make it more attractive to simply shed a few pounds
from one's bod and install an SVLA product instead.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: LRI Audio Warning Wanted |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 07:18 AM 6/1/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PeterHunt1@aol.com
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>Thanks for helping me understand that a pressure transducer switch on my LRI
>will be complex and expensive. I may play with a Digikey pressure sensor and
>will let everyone know if I come up with a practical solution.
Holler if I can help. As I recall the LRI operates over a range of 2-5
inches of water for pressure. There are solid state sensors that perform
well in that range. It may be that a simple comparator could be used
to detect the switchpoint. The pressure transducer may be ratiometric
with respect to output versus pressure and supply voltage. This would
eliminate one of drift issues.
>No, I do not plan close tolerance approaches. My LRI sits right next to my
>air speed indicator and between the two I should have no trouble making safe
>approaches. I just thought a warning tone associated with my LRI would be a
>nice feature and so I asked.
Don't see why not.
>Yes, my RV-6 is out of the living room and at South Lakeland. The prop goes
>on this week, so I'll be lighting the engine soon. You will remember that I
>have your latest and greatest Z-10 (all electric airplane with 20-amp E-bus)
>wiring system.
Good news my friend. Bob tells me that his Form337 mod to the
Grumman is looking good too. Sounds like lots of progress go'n
on in St. Pete! Dee finished her PhD . . . we still need to get
her down to Florida. Maybe next fall.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: NiMH Batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
OOOOOOPPPPPPS
Correction
"The very best way to charge them for easy use and max. life is 1/10C for ` 150
hours"
That would be 15 hours, not 150 hours.
Ron Parigoris
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: LRI Audio Warning Wanted |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dan Brown <dan@familybrown.org>
Quoting "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>:
> Holler if I can help. As I recall the LRI operates over a range of 2-5
> inches of water for pressure. There are solid state sensors that perform
> well in that range. It may be that a simple comparator could be used
I'm sure it wouldn't be the lightest-weight solution, but a Dwyer
Photohelic gauge measures differential pressure and includes an
adjustable pressure switch. They're available in a wide variety of
pressure ranges, including one that runs 0-5 inches of water pressure.
It seems like this would be a simple way to handle this.
--
Dan Brown, KE6MKS, dan@familybrown.org
"Since all the world is but a story, it were well for thee to buy the
more enduring story rather than the story that is less enduring."
-- The Judgment of St. Colum Cille
Message 11
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| Subject: | OT - AOPA fly-in |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
Anybody going to the AOPA fly-in this Saturday? Anyone who has done it before?
I was just wondering if it is a good idea to fly-in (or better to
drive-in), if I am about 2 hrs (or less) driving distance from FDK.
Considering the possible air traffic and restrictions, holds etc. at FDK
for the fly-in, I suspect that it may take about the same if not longer to
fly. Easier to park a car, and less dependent on weather. (understandably
"VFR strongly suggested" at FDK for the fly-in). Any feedback?
Thanks
Rumen
do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Load analysis - resources |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 06:55 AM 6/1/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht
><paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com>
>
>Is there a resource out there listing current draws for all the popular
>avionics? And perhaps accessories like common heated pitots? Would be a
>quick
>way to put together your max load figure.
There was some discussion here on the List about gathering such
data together into a single Excel file for publication. A couple
of individuals traded some data and there was discussions about
the status of the Excel file . . .
I've not heard anything about this project lately. Can anybody
jump in here and update us? I'd be pleased to post the file and
any updates on the 'Connection website.
Bob. . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: NiMH Batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 11:40 AM 6/1/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris"
><rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
>I fly Model Electric Aeroplanes. I plan on carrying around with my Europa
>XS Monowheel
>with 914 rotax.
>
>There are plenty of NiMhs around, and they are far from robust if you
>begin to draw some
>amps from them. Since not too long ago, GP (Gold Peak) is making a can Sub
>C cell that has
>a capacity of 3700mAs. Hotliner guys are pulling 150 plus amps from
>these!!! mind you
>general for under 5 second bursts. These things are pretty happy at
>dumping 50 amps plus
>for their entire capacity. OK since i will have these cells on board
>anyway, i will design
>model for 12 cells (~14.4V). If I have a problem starting the 914, I will
>just put 2 packs
>in series with starter.
In series . . . or parallel?
What kind of terminals are available for connection high current
wiring?
> The alternator will not put out enough to charge these, but would
>not leave them on line once motor starts.
I think this a lot more load than anyone expects to
need . . . my sense is that aside from engine cranking
(which we're agreed that the NiMH is not yet applicable)
the next step down is for bus stabilization and endurance
energy storage. So we're talking about relatively light
loads for endurance support of 2-4 hours.
>In event electrical quits to my electric fuel pumps, I will have a quick
>insert battery
>for aux. pump.
How do you expect your electrical system to become so completely
crippled?
>If you overcharge a NiMh they can explode or have a major meltdown. The
>very best way to
>charge them for easy use and max. life is 1/10C for ` 150 hours, so you
>would need a
>constant amp charger. For maximum amp dump, you need these cells fairly
>warm. So if you
>charge with a Delta Peak Charger at 2C, that is a good start point. Easier
>on the cell is
>a 1C charge, but these new cells may accept 3 or more C and not hurt them.
>I have not
>fooled with them yet, but am using about 2 revisions old technology.
Quick chargers can do a 1 to 2C recharge if they monitor
temperature of the cell. I've not tried putting a NiMH array
across a constant voltage bus to see how they would behave
in a vehicular system.
>I will have a integral peak charger built into aeroplane so i can charge
>models.
>
>This is the way I will be using them. If I were to consider use actual in
>system all the
>time, I would look pretty hard at the Red top or Red hat high dump amps
>Lead Acid in the
>circuit all the time. That battery is used on large 2 strokes, and will
>probably bearly
>start a 914. I would supplement start ups with a 12 or 13 cell pack as
>described that
>could be brought on line for starting, or if the lead acid/charger quit.
>It would have a
>delta peak charger integral that would be manual started.
>
>Usual when a pack begins to go south, you just loose capacity, and drop
>voltage under
>load.Once in a while a cell will internal open. That is always fun when
>you are running
>your radio off the pack.
Are you telling us that folks are or have used NiMH technologies
to start relatively large engines like on ultra-lights, etc? I'm certain
that the practical utilization of NiMH technology will not involve a special
charging system . . . the cost of ownership for that makes the NiMH versus
SVLA decision very easy.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: LRI Audio Warning Wanted |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 12:37 PM 6/1/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dan Brown <dan@familybrown.org>
>
>Quoting "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>:
>
> > Holler if I can help. As I recall the LRI operates over a range of 2-5
> > inches of water for pressure. There are solid state sensors that perform
> > well in that range. It may be that a simple comparator could be used
>
> I'm sure it wouldn't be the lightest-weight solution, but a Dwyer
>Photohelic gauge measures differential pressure and includes an
>adjustable pressure switch. They're available in a wide variety of
>pressure ranges, including one that runs 0-5 inches of water pressure.
>It seems like this would be a simple way to handle this.
I've got some of those . . . pretty beefy gizmos as you've noted.
Make the nickel-sized solid state transducers look pretty attractive.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: NiMH Batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 11:40 AM 6/1/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris"
> ><rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> >
> >I fly Model Electric Aeroplanes. I plan on carrying around with my Europa
> >XS Monowheel
> >with 914 rotax.
> >
> >There are plenty of NiMhs around, and they are far from robust if you
> >begin to draw some
> >amps from them. Since not too long ago, GP (Gold Peak) is making a can Sub
> >C cell that has
> >a capacity of 3700mAs. Hotliner guys are pulling 150 plus amps from
> >these!!! mind you
> >general for under 5 second bursts. These things are pretty happy at
> >dumping 50 amps plus
> >for their entire capacity. OK since i will have these cells on board
> >anyway, i will design
> >model for 12 cells (~14.4V). If I have a problem starting the 914, I will
> >just put 2 packs
> >in series with starter.
>
> In series . . . or parallel?
>
> What kind of terminals are available for connection high current
> wiring?
>
12 cells in series will yield ~ 14.4 volts. They are ~ 1.2 volts. as far as connecting
them, for outrageous amp draw, end to end soldering is least resistance. They make
a
hammerhead iron and you can make or buy a jig that is essential a piece of angle
to get
proper alignment. For the most part i solder with a thick braid made for this application.
It allows the alignment of the batteries in my application have a higher factor
of
"Wiggulation" compared to end to end soldered. if you want to break opened a end
to end
pack, put in freezer and bust opened. There are also jumper bars, hobby shops often
have
this stuff for model car guys.
One of my favorite connectors are sermos, or anderson power pole. McMaster sells
them
under modular connectors. You can parallel them, often i double the rating by paralleling
2. if you are real careful they are OK reliable at their rating if they remain
clean,
tension is right, you didn't hurt them soldering and the silver plate is not worn
off. 2
paralleled, I have never had a failure.
>
> > The alternator will not put out enough to charge these, but would
> >not leave them on line once motor starts.
>
> I think this a lot more load than anyone expects to
> need . . . my sense is that aside from engine cranking
> (which we're agreed that the NiMH is not yet applicable)
> the next step down is for bus stabilization and endurance
> energy storage. So we're talking about relatively light
> loads for endurance support of 2-4 hours.
I am not agreed at all in any way shape or form that NiMhs are not applicable for
starting
currents!!! I think NiMhs are ready at this very moment to handle starting currents.
I
stated that the GP3700s are capable of 150 amps plus for 5 seconds bursts, but
could run
continuous at 50 amps plus. Thus if I want a "HELPER" boost for starting, 2 parallel
packs
(each pack 12 cells series) could give up 100 amps (~50 amps each) and yield a
long, long
life. asking 300 amps out of them, I would probably be looking close at replacement
after
only perhaps 500 starts??? Asking only 50 amps would probably switch out at main
battery
replacement, but literal thousand and thousand of starts would be possible.
>
>
> >In event electrical quits to my electric fuel pumps, I will have a quick
> >insert battery
> >for aux. pump.
>
> How do you expect your electrical system to become so completely
> crippled?
The Rotax 914 internal alternator can only be called upon to produce 12 amps or
less
continuous. Over that the regulator and supposedly the windings can and do fail.
So one
nice day when cranking my motor in the cold, and I was too lazy to add the model
booster
pack, just as the motor catches, the battery is going to internal fail with a partial
short. Then the alternator is going to attempt to charge full, which will bearly
show 15
amps, which is its max. and i will attribute it to the long cranking and just trying
to
play catch up. Just out of gliding distance from anything suitable is when the
charging
system will fail and silent Night will begin playing.
In reality I was more interested in boost, but i will set it up so in seconds i
could run
a pump if i really needed. I feel it is kinda sortta like my trim motor. If I install
anchor nuts (they are near impossible to get to unless you do some major surgery)
and a
connector that will insure i will never have a servo problem or failure. if i did
not,
when I am in a rush to get somewhere.......
>
>
> >If you overcharge a NiMh they can explode or have a major meltdown. The
> >very best way to
> >charge them for easy use and max. life is 1/10C for ` 150 hours, so you
> >would need a
> >constant amp charger. For maximum amp dump, you need these cells fairly
> >warm. So if you
> >charge with a Delta Peak Charger at 2C, that is a good start point. Easier
> >on the cell is
> >a 1C charge, but these new cells may accept 3 or more C and not hurt them.
> >I have not
> >fooled with them yet, but am using about 2 revisions old technology.
>
> Quick chargers can do a 1 to 2C recharge if they monitor
> temperature of the cell. I've not tried putting a NiMH array
> across a constant voltage bus to see how they would behave
> in a vehicular system.
You need constant amperage charger. As the cell charges from a weakened state you
need to
keep increasing the voltage to keep the amps flowing in. That is till the cell
is charged,
then you need to start, and rapid lowering the voltage to maintain a constant amperage.
If
you charge beyond peak very far, things get HOT! A delta peak charger measures
this peak,
and discontinues the charge a short ways on the way down. remember we are not talking
cheap NiMhs here where they have a high internal resistance. Charging those, you
are lucky
to charge at 1C, often 3/4C better, and you best monitor temperature. The model
packs, I
monitor temp if charging over 1C with my hand. charging over 1C needs you to careful
monitor. If the charger failed, you have a potential disaster.
If someone has not a lot of experience charging and knowing what to look for, leave
all
charging to be done at home. If you wish to charge from your car, i would not charge
much
over 10 amps off the cigarette lighter. you need to go right to the battery. I
have read
more than once of cars developing a high resistance connection under the dash somewhere
and the car catching fire and burning because of it!
>
>
> >I will have a integral peak charger built into aeroplane so i can charge
> >models.
> >
> >This is the way I will be using them. If I were to consider use actual in
> >system all the
> >time, I would look pretty hard at the Red top or Red hat high dump amps
> >Lead Acid in the
> >circuit all the time. That battery is used on large 2 strokes, and will
> >probably bearly
> >start a 914. I would supplement start ups with a 12 or 13 cell pack as
> >described that
> >could be brought on line for starting, or if the lead acid/charger quit.
> >It would have a
> >delta peak charger integral that would be manual started.
> >
> >Usual when a pack begins to go south, you just loose capacity, and drop
> >voltage under
> >load.Once in a while a cell will internal open. That is always fun when
> >you are running
> >your radio off the pack.
>
> Are you telling us that folks are or have used NiMH technologies
> to start relatively large engines like on ultra-lights, etc? I'm certain
> that the practical utilization of NiMH technology will not involve a special
> charging system . . . the cost of ownership for that makes the NiMH versus
> SVLA decision very easy.
I knew what i was saying ;-) I was trying to say, if someone wanted to save some
weight,
on a 914 install they could probably get away with the light (think 4 or 5 pound
same
technology as oddessey can dump amps pretty good for lead acid) lead acid battery
that
they often use with 2 strokes, and supplement just starting with NiMhs.
I will have this technology on board anyway, since one of the missions of the Europa
is to
whisk people and models away to far off soaring sites. Why not for minimal effort
in my
mind help starting if needed and make the fuel pumps run a bit longer. In reality
I will
only be adding a terrible fire hazard to a cockpit in which you are sitting on
the fuel
tanks.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | "Preferred architecture" for all-electric IFR RV with |
1 EI and 1
mag?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht <paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com>
Well, I am now about 1/2 through Bob's excellent book and have studied
the various system diagrams a few times and done a lot of other reading.
I am building an RV that will be all-electric and intended for IFR and
will have 1 LSE (most likely) and 1 mag. Basically it comes down to
dual alt/single battery or single alt/dual battery. I see pros and cons
to both. My thinking right now is that this is not an uncommon setup
and so there must be a "preferred" or at least most-common way this is
being done these days.. and I should take advantage of that common wisdom.
I have read comments from Bob in the archive like "don't let an unused
vacuum pad" go to waste (i.e. put an alternator on it). I do lean
towards the dual-alt soln now, I think, but would certainly like to hear
any and all opinions as to the relative merits of each.... I stand to
learn a great deal more, I think.
~Paul
~RV-9A QB #1176
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Load analysis - resources |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rv-9a-online <rv-9a-online@telus.net>
I've reformatted my information and added actual equipment types:
http://www3.telus.net/aviation/flying/RV-9A/photos/Electrical/Electrical_photos
The third link down is to the Excel spreadsheet. Your mileage may vary.
Vern Little
RV-9A
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
>At 06:55 AM 6/1/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht
>><paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com>
>>
>>Is there a resource out there listing current draws for all the popular
>>avionics? And perhaps accessories like common heated pitots? Would be a
>>quick
>>way to put together your max load figure.
>>
>>
>
> There was some discussion here on the List about gathering such
> data together into a single Excel file for publication. A couple
> of individuals traded some data and there was discussions about
> the status of the Excel file . . .
>
> I've not heard anything about this project lately. Can anybody
> jump in here and update us? I'd be pleased to post the file and
> any updates on the 'Connection website.
>
> Bob. . .
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Load analysis - resources |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
Sweet web page, Vern!!
Dave Morris
At 12:49 PM 6/1/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rv-9a-online <rv-9a-online@telus.net>
>
>I've reformatted my information and added actual equipment types:
>
>http://www3.telus.net/aviation/flying/RV-9A/photos/Electrical/Electrical_photos
>
>The third link down is to the Excel spreadsheet. Your mileage may vary.
>
>Vern Little
>RV-9A
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
> >
> >At 06:55 AM 6/1/2005 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht
> >><paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com>
> >>
> >>Is there a resource out there listing current draws for all the popular
> >>avionics? And perhaps accessories like common heated pitots? Would be a
> >>quick
> >>way to put together your max load figure.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > There was some discussion here on the List about gathering such
> > data together into a single Excel file for publication. A couple
> > of individuals traded some data and there was discussions about
> > the status of the Excel file . . .
> >
> > I've not heard anything about this project lately. Can anybody
> > jump in here and update us? I'd be pleased to post the file and
> > any updates on the 'Connection website.
> >
> > Bob. . .
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Load analysis - resources |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
The link didn't work for me...:(
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Morris
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Load analysis - resources
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris
--> <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
Sweet web page, Vern!!
Dave Morris
At 12:49 PM 6/1/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rv-9a-online
>--> <rv-9a-online@telus.net>
>
>I've reformatted my information and added actual equipment types:
>
>http://www3.telus.net/aviation/flying/RV-9A/photos/Electrical/Electrica
>l_photos
>
>The third link down is to the Excel spreadsheet. Your mileage may
vary.
>
>Vern Little
>RV-9A
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
> >
> >At 06:55 AM 6/1/2005 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht
> >><paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com>
> >>
> >>Is there a resource out there listing current draws for all the
> >>popular avionics? And perhaps accessories like common heated
> >>pitots? Would be a quick way to put together your max load figure.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > There was some discussion here on the List about gathering such
> > data together into a single Excel file for publication. A couple of
> > individuals traded some data and there was discussions about the
> > status of the Excel file . . .
> >
> > I've not heard anything about this project lately. Can anybody
> > jump in here and update us? I'd be pleased to post the file and any
> > updates on the 'Connection website.
> >
> > Bob. . .
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 20
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DonVS" <dsvs@comcast.net>
Bob,
I was looking at the current version (in your down load section) of z13/8.
I also looked at the install instructions for the P mag from their site. It
appears that you have switched the red and orange leads. Please advise.
thanks. Don
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Load analysis - resources |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rv-9a-online <rv-9a-online@telus.net>
Frank, when a long link is published, it's sometimes 'broken' by the end
of the line. I've shortened it a bit, see if this works.
Otherwise, you have to cut and paste the link fragments into your
browser tool bar, removing the space at the break.
www3.telus.net/aviation/flying/RV-9A/photos/Electrical/Electrical_photos
Vern
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>The link didn't work for me...:(
>
>Frank
>
>Do not archive
>
>
>
>>http://www3.telus.net/aviation/flying/RV-9A/photos/Electrical/Electrica
>>l_photos
>>
>>The third link down is to the Excel spreadsheet. Your mileage may
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 22
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 04:40 PM 6/1/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DonVS" <dsvs@comcast.net>
>
>
>Bob,
>I was looking at the current version (in your down load section) of z13/8.
>I also looked at the install instructions for the P mag from their site. It
>appears that you have switched the red and orange leads. Please advise.
>thanks. Don
You are correct. Thank you! The drawing has been fixed
and an updated Appendix Z has been posted at:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11C.pdf
Bob . . .
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | loose connection trips OVP |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
While tracking down a electrical problem ( haven't run the engine yet) I
was sidetracked for awhile by the circuit breaker that feeds a 40 amp OV
relay on my permanent magnet alternator popping. It seems that wiggling
a loose connection between the breaker and the relay will trip the OVP
and open the breaker. The crowbar OVP is constructed from the new
design. It tests OK and it doesn't trip if the alternator switch is
operated. I does trip if I intentionally rapidly connect and disconnect
the wire to the relay. The relay coil draws about 130 mA. If I
disconnect the OVP I am unable to make the C/B trip so it would seem
that the OVP is activating. It doesn't seem to make any difference
whether a diode is across the relay coil.
I'm guessing this is normal and I'm making voltage spikes at a faster
rate than the OVP time delay resets but I would have expected negative
spikes rather than positive spikes. Temporarilly adding a unidirectional
transorb across it makes it more resistant to tripping which seems to
confirm that I am generating positive spikes.
Ken
Message 24
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Michael Ashura" <ashuramj@hotmail.com>
K&S Stock No. 247 as recomended by Bob. 0.064x3/4x12"
I had to buy 3, will sell remaining 2 for $5 each plus actual USPS.
Mike
Message 25
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| Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
DNA: do not archive
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com
Dear Lister,
Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
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things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
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that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
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- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
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Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Headset pains |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "randall" <rv6n6r@comcast.net>
Peltors, definitely.
----- Original Message -----
From: <bobsv35b@aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Headset pains
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: bobsv35b@aol.com
>
> Good Morning Larry,
>
> This may not be applicable to your situation, but I did have a similar
difficulty with headsets for my diminutive wife. She absolutely refused to
use any headset I tried including older Bose headsets.
>
> One day at Oshkosh, she was walking past the Bose tent and they were
pitching their wares by offering something to listen to that interested my
little lady. After trying the Bose X headsets, she came back to our tent and
informed that she wanted a set. I purchased a unit for her and she has been
a happy user for the last three years.
>
> I know you stated that you wanted a passive set, but if you do not have
electricity to power them, they are available with a nice long lasting small
battery powered cord.
>
> I am certain we all agree that headset use is a very subjective thing, but
the Bose Xs are the first ones that made my significant other happy and I do
believe we had previously tried every other brand, including earlier Bose
units, that anybody has ever offered!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman 3977A
> Downers Grove, IL
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
> To: aeroelectric-list <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Headset pains
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Larry McFarland
<larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Hi Guys,
> My wife is a small gal and the headphone bows become a vise on the ears
> and pain
> at the top of the skull after too short a time. Has anyone seen a set
> of headphones
> that are lighter and smaller that were capable of passive noise
> cancellation in a
> light enclosed aircraft? Sennheiser have a set that has a double bows
> but are
> designed for jets. Not sure if they would be correct for conventional
> engine noise.
> Any recommendations for this problem?
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS
>
>
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