Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:26 AM - Re: GS-Air LED position and strobes (Eric M. Jones)
2. 06:36 AM - P-mags: (Matt Jurotich)
3. 08:29 AM - Kilovac EV200AAANA with economizers (Eric M. Jones)
4. 09:14 AM - Re: Re: GS-Air LED position and strobes (EuropaXSA276@aol.com)
5. 10:08 AM - Ground Planes (John Schroeder)
6. 10:38 AM - Re: Ground Planes (Dave Morris)
7. 11:48 AM - Re: "Preferred architecture" for all-electric (Paul Folbrecht)
8. 01:12 PM - Devil's advocate (Dan Checkoway)
9. 01:33 PM - Where is Bob's Z-10? (PeterHunt1@aol.com)
10. 02:00 PM - Where is Bob's Z-10? ()
11. 03:12 PM - Re: Devil's advocate (Wayne Sweet)
12. 04:04 PM - headset weirdness (Robert Dickson)
13. 04:09 PM - high density d-sub pins (Robert Dickson)
14. 04:37 PM - Re: high density d-sub pins (Walter Tondu)
15. 05:19 PM - Re: headset weirdness (Earl_Schroeder)
16. 06:47 PM - Re: high density d-sub pins (Stein Bruch)
17. 07:53 PM - Re: CBA-II battery tester and $low$ NiMh cells (J. Mcculley)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: GS-Air LED position and strobes |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\""
<BigD@DaveMorris.com>
>LEDs are going to revolutionize lighting everywhere. Buy stock in
>LEDs! Eric has got some good stuff on LEDs as well as some products at
>www.PerihelionDesign.com and everyone should keep an eye on rapid
>developments in this field for aviation.
>I just bought a strip of EmeraLights from Wicks for $10 that illuminates
>the entire instrument panel with only 70mA of current. I bought a Lumiled
>Luxeon 1W LED and nearly blinded myself when I turned it on. Awesome
power.
It really looks GS-air worked to get the photometrics right. And I think
they are on the right track----
BUT
If these things survive thermally I will REALLY BE AMAZED. (And since I am
frequently amazed, anything is possible).
We Aeroelectric-list types would love to have someone stick a thermocouple
on the position light and get us a delta-T for these puppies. Since the
engineers at Whelen, Goodrich, and Perihelion Design (hey, that's me!)
decided this normal-bulb replacement scheme was not thermally possible--Send
us some convincing data please.
Incandescent lamps are not very sensitive to heat. LEDs lifetime and
reliability is a function of their junction temperature. The reduction in
lifetime, brightness, and reliability as a function of time is hard
information to come by with long-lifetime parts. My guess is that these LEDs
will not last as long as one would like.
My white 5W LED tail light has a heatsink on it that is 40 square inches,
necessary to keep the LED temperature down to delta-T of 30 degrees C.
Other short notes on LED:
The scoop is that "major" automakers will introduce LED headlights starting
in the 2008 model year. And no they won't make economic sense. Cree (an LED
chipmaker) has demonstrated LEDs with 100 lumens/watt--similar to
fluorescent efficiency. The highest LED efficiency on the market today is
about 55 lumens/watt for white.
So BE AMAZED---but don't be fooled either. And good luck to GS-Air.
https://ssl.perfora.net/www.gs-air.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=15429fb0b78100c/shopdata/index.shopscript
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice
there is."
---Yogi Berra
Message 2
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Jurotich <mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov>
Bob and all
The p-mag people have never answered my important to me question. With
mags if turn off both mags the prop stops very promptly, much faster than
pulling the mixture. Can P-mags be turned off in a similar manner, i.e.
stop the prop as fast as turning off both mags. By the way this important
enough to me to verify at least once every 10 hours that mags off stops the
engine.
Matthew M. Jurotich
e-mail mail to: <mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov>
phone : 301-286-5919
Message 3
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| Subject: | Kilovac EV200AAANA with economizers |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
I have new Kilovac EV200AAANA Contactors (with economizers) and spec sheets
for $80 each. I have to charge postage on these USPS Priority (about 20
ounces packed.)
Send me an email off-list
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: GS-Air LED position and strobes |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
I have been looking at 3 in one strobe units for my Europa's wings.
AeroFlash, GS and others. I finally settled on Whelen 600 units after considerable
investigation. I chose them for candela output, proven track record and
certification.
My foremost concerns were quality and doing my best to eliminate the chance
of any hideous bleed over to the radio.
Dislikes are weight and of course power consumption. Oh yes a BIG dislike
was that they cost twice as much as the others too!
Tailwinds
Brian Skelly
Texas
Europa # A276 TriGear
See My build photos at:
http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
The following was posted on the Lancair Mail List. Although it deals wi/
ground planes for TCAS, it has other good info about groundplanes.
John
===========================================================
Several different techniques are being used on composite aircraft to
produce the antenna ground plane required by a 'spherics (Stormscope) and
a TCAS-type traffic alert. I started an investigation into the use of a
metallized graphite scrim that could be easily applied. At this point
that application is questionable because the Ryan TAS operating frequency
is 1 GHz and the wavelength is so short that the open spaces in the scrim
might become re-transmitting antennae. Jury's still out on that one.
However the engineers at Ryan like Bob Schofield have been helpful beyond
measure, and here is what I have gleaned from them so far:
The ground plane must be VERY conductive. The resistance from center
antenna attach point to aircraft ground must be less than 10 milliOhm -
0.01 Ohm. Don't try to measure that with the VOM that you bought at
NAPA. The plane must be symmetrical along 2 axis fore-aft and
port-starbord. Curved to match the fuselage shape is OK.
A ground plane of solid metal foil seems to work best. Conductive paints
based on Ni or Ag plated copper will NOT work over time. Tests on
composite helicopters have shown that the painted plane is effective
initially but after one year begins to degrade. The engineers theorize
that the paint becomes brittle with age and begins to crack. That leaves
slots that re-transmit and isolated islands that are not grounded. The
situation would be worse with a pressurized aircraft where the skin walls
flex out and back with every flight, so a definite no-no for the Lancair
IV-P and ES-P.
One material recommended is a thin Al foil available from McMaster-Carr,
p/n 9060K16. It is dead soft, 0.005" thick, and comes in rolls 36" wide
will sell you smaller quantities. Typical installations require two
pieces about 3 ft by 3 ft each. The material is soft enough to conform to
curves and bumps on the cabin deck and overhead, and could be adhered with
a contact spray like 3M 7700. The ground plane must be connected to the
aircraft ground with at least two 12 to 14 ga. wires - do not rely on the
coax cable shield to ground the plane.
The external antenna should be mounted over a thin Al sheet cut the exact
same footprint as the antenna. That sheet should be affixed to the
fuselage with two 6/32 countersunk machine screws that go through the Al
sheet, then the fuselage and then the internal Al ground plane where the
screws are fastened with two self-locking nuts. The external antenna is
then attached with its six screws to the fuselage, trapping the Al plate
beneath, and the external sandwich edge is sealed with RTV.
The coax cable to use is 50 Ohm RG-400 cut 16 feet long. Not about "15
feet" - cut it 16 feet long. The extra could be looped into a large coil
at least 2 feet in diameter. You will need 4 of the leads, they each must
be 16 feet long, and they should measure 2.5 dB to 3.5dB at 1 GHz.
More details when and if I get 'em.
Robert M. Simon, GlaStar N161GS and Lancair ES-P(xl) N301ES.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Ground Planes |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
At 12:07 PM 6/3/2005, you wrote:
>The coax cable to use is 50 Ohm RG-400 cut 16 feet long. Not about "15
>feet" - cut it 16 feet long. The extra could be looped into a large coil
>at least 2 feet in diameter. You will need 4 of the leads, they each must
>be 16 feet long, and they should measure 2.5 dB to 3.5dB at 1 GHz.
I don't understand this. If it is being used as normal feedline, then the
length is totally irrelevent, except that it should be as short as possible
to reduce losses at 1GHz (difference in loss between 1GHz and the aircraft
band is a whopping 14.3dB). Maybe they just want all the feedlines to be
exactly the same length so as to avoid differences in time of arrival of
the signals from all 4 antennas.
Also, as I understand it, the reason for having antennas on top and on
bottom of the aircraft is to get a clear shot of the surrounding airspace
and avoid attenuation in the shadow of the metal fuselage. If your plane
is a composite, there is little to impede the signal, right? Maybe there
could be a (cheaper) 2 antenna version for composites.
Dave Morris
N5UP
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: "Preferred architecture" for all-electric |
IFR RV with 1 EI and 1 mag?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht <paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com>
Thanks for the reply, Bob. Comments below.
Robert L. Nuckolls, III all-electric IFR RV with 1 EI and 1 mag? wrote:
> If I were building an airplane today, Z-13 with dual p-mags would
> be my choice . . . the vast majority of OBAM aircraft being
> constructed today have a close or close copy of a C-172 which is
> what Van's sells and/or recommends in his kits. I've had at least
>
>
Yes; of course, Van's thinking is all about VFR. Not at all where I'm
going or where many RV builders are going these days.
> two builders put Z-14 in their RV-8's . . . and if they're reading
> this and wish to join the conversation, I'm sure they can give
> you persuasive monologs as to their reasoning for those choices.
>
>
I've gotten some, and enjoy hearing them all.
Z-14 is where I've been leaning as well. Basically, I have been balking
at the idea of a 2nd alternator for cost reasons, but the more I turn it
over in my head the more I like it. You can't put a price tag on piece
of mind.
> I'm not trying to belittle anyone's offer to give you advice or
> an opinion but at the end of the day, the electrical system can
> be as personalized as your upholstery or paint job. If you bought
>
>
Unlike those things, however, the set of possibilities here is much
smaller and the set of *sane and smart* possibilities smaller still.
> and read the book (in particular chapter 17) what are YOUR impressions
> a system that meets your needs? If you have doubts, can you articulate
> them? It's better that we offer guidance to re-enforce or refine
> what's attractive to you than to give you a data dump on what everyone
> else is doing.
>
>
Springing for the 2nd alternator has been my only hickup, as I said. I
noticed (I think - I do not have the book in front of me at the moment)
that -14 calls for two 40A alternators. Is it even possible to mount
two belt-driven alternators on a Lyc? When I think of a 2nd alternator,
I think of a pump-mounted gear-driven unit. I would guess that one of
those (the 20A B&C) would also work just fine with Z-14 with a <20A
essential bus.
> Suppose you start with Z-13. Do you perceive any shortcomings?
> Do you have any special-needs equipment? Do you have a FADEC or
> EFIS system that wanders off into the woods if powered from
> the engine cranking battery?
>
>
I plan a GRT EFIS and do not think it has any problems working off the
main battery.. one more thing to investigate.
Thanks again for your comments.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Devil's advocate |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Homebuilt fliers out there who are instrument rated and keep current and
really do fly IFR in your plane...here is a poll of sorts:
- What % of your flying is IFR?
- What % of your flying is in solid IMC without a VFR "out"?
I consider myself more active than the average private pilot who flies for
fun. In the past 12 months, I flew 405 hours, 13.5 of which were actual
instrument...3% of my flying. Approximately 3 of those hours were in solid
IMC with no VFR "out." That's less than 1% of my flying. Zero hours IFR at
night in the past year.
Has anybody out there ever actually used a standby alternator in IMC?
How about in VMC...has anybody had a primary alternator fail, and then flew
multiple legs home (more than just a local hop, i.e. a real cross country
trip) using the standby alternator?
Just curious.
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Where is Bob's Z-10? |
HTTP_ESCAPED_HOST@roxy.matronics.com, URI:, Uses@roxy.matronics.com,
@-escapes, inside@roxy.matronics.com, a@roxy.matronics.com,
URL's@roxy.matronics.com, hostname@roxy.matronics.com
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PeterHunt1@aol.com
Bob,
Following my recent Aeroelectric posts where I mentioned utilizing your
Figure Z-10 wiring diagram, I have gotten several questions of where someone can
find it. This is your all electric airplane with 20 amp E-bus. You made it
specifically for me when I upgraded to the SD-20 and wanted a manual switch to
turn on my essential bus should the main alternator fail. I cannot find it
with a quick look through http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11C.pdf
and it is not in your book. Is Z-10 available in electronic form somewhere? I
think Z-10 is an excellent approach, especially for an IFR panel.
So glad Dee has finished her Ph.D. Give her my "Well Done." Yes, do stop for
a visit if you get nearby in the fall. My guest room is clean and waiting.
Pete Hunt, Clearwater
RV-6, getting ready for first flight.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Where is Bob's Z-10? |
"IMB Recipient 1" <mspop3connector.Droopy@ericksonjc.com>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <PeterHunt1@aol.com>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PeterHunt1@aol.com
Bob,
Following my recent Aeroelectric posts where I mentioned utilizing your
Figure Z-10 wiring diagram, I have gotten several questions of where someone can
find it. This is your all electric airplane with 20 amp E-bus. You made it
specifically for me when I upgraded to the SD-20 and wanted a manual switch to
turn on my essential bus should the main alternator fail. I cannot find it
with a quick look through http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11C.pdf
and it is not in your book. Is Z-10 available in electronic form somewhere? I
think Z-10 is an excellent approach, especially for an IFR panel.
So glad Dee has finished her Ph.D. Give her my "Well Done." Yes, do stop for
a visit if you get nearby in the fall. My guest room is clean and waiting.
Pete Hunt, Clearwater
RV-6, getting ready for first flight.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Devil's advocate |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet@comcast.net>
You DO fly alot. I fly my MustangII IFR when needed. On my trip back from
Sun-N-Fun had to pick up a clearance while enroute, which was the last
enroute IMC. Normally flying out of Salinas KSNS, in the summer the low
stratus and fog are a morning and evening thing, so shooting the ILS to get
home is not unusual. I have not had an alternator failure IMC, but did have
a failure VMC. My MII is all electric with a backup battery only for the #1
LSI CDI which is charged through a diode off the alternator output, as LSE's
diagram shows. I do not have an backup alternator, but thought about the
SD-8. I judged that to be too much more stuff to fail.
Returning to SNS, at that point a 40 minute flight, the main battery voltage
did not drop below 12.6V, so the backup was not used. The EFIS D10A has it's
own internal backup. I fly about 80 - 100 hours annually and maybe 1 -2 % is
IMC.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Devil's advocate
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
> <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> Homebuilt fliers out there who are instrument rated and keep current and
> really do fly IFR in your plane...here is a poll of sorts:
>
> - What % of your flying is IFR?
> - What % of your flying is in solid IMC without a VFR "out"?
>
> I consider myself more active than the average private pilot who flies for
> fun. In the past 12 months, I flew 405 hours, 13.5 of which were actual
> instrument...3% of my flying. Approximately 3 of those hours were in
> solid
> IMC with no VFR "out." That's less than 1% of my flying. Zero hours IFR
> at
> night in the past year.
>
> Has anybody out there ever actually used a standby alternator in IMC?
>
> How about in VMC...has anybody had a primary alternator fail, and then
> flew
> multiple legs home (more than just a local hop, i.e. a real cross country
> trip) using the standby alternator?
>
> Just curious.
>
> do not archive
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | headset weirdness |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Dickson <robert@thenews-journal.com>
I've got two headsets, both lightspeed cross country anr sets. One was
bought last summer and the other was purchased recently. The new set
works great in the passenger jacks (RV-6A) but in the pilot jacks the
sidetone is very weak. If I try to turn up the volume I get a feedback
squeal and still can't hear the mic. The older set works great in both
sets of jacks.
I'm guessing that this is probably some sort of problem with the mic
jack on the pilot side, but I can't understand why one headset works in
those jacks while the other doesn't. The new headset has some
improvements over the old set so I really like to be able to use it on
the pilot side.
anyone ever have such a problem or care to offer a solution?
Robert Dickson
RV-6A
Carrboro NC
Message 13
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| Subject: | high density d-sub pins |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Dickson <robert@thenews-journal.com>
yet another question. . .
I'm interested in adding music to my flying experiences so i want to
wire my Garmin 340 audio panel to accept input from my ipod. I've got
the wiring diagram but have discovered that the plug is a high density
d-sub and needs different pins than the ones I've got.
I'm assuming I'll be able to get the pins at my local electronics
supply house since they carry the regular d-subs, but will my Eclipse
crimper also crimp the high density pins?
I guess I'm really asking what's the difference between the regular
ones and the high density version.
thanks,
Robert Dickson
RV-6A
Carrboro NC
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: high density d-sub pins |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
On 06/03 7:09, Robert Dickson wrote:
> I'm interested in adding music to my flying experiences so i want to
> wire my Garmin 340 audio panel to accept input from my ipod. I've got
> the wiring diagram but have discovered that the plug is a high density
> d-sub and needs different pins than the ones I've got.
> I'm assuming I'll be able to get the pins at my local electronics
> supply house since they carry the regular d-subs, but will my Eclipse
> crimper also crimp the high density pins?
> I guess I'm really asking what's the difference between the regular
> ones and the high density version.
For some reason I had a *hell* of a time trying to obtain HD dsub
pins. Finally found a source. The standard barrel crimper I have
worked for the hd dsub pins as well.
http://www.rv7-a.com/141_4180.jpg
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: headset weirdness |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Earl_Schroeder <Earl_Schroeder@juno.com>
A friend had this problem and traced it to one being a stereo type and
the other mono. The phone jack in his airplane was mono only. Earl
Robert Dickson wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Dickson <robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
>I've got two headsets, both lightspeed cross country anr sets. One was
>bought last summer and the other was purchased recently. The new set
>works great in the passenger jacks (RV-6A) but in the pilot jacks the
>sidetone is very weak. If I try to turn up the volume I get a feedback
>squeal and still can't hear the mic. The older set works great in both
>sets of jacks.
>I'm guessing that this is probably some sort of problem with the mic
>jack on the pilot side, but I can't understand why one headset works in
>those jacks while the other doesn't. The new headset has some
>improvements over the old set so I really like to be able to use it on
>the pilot side.
>anyone ever have such a problem or care to offer a solution?
>
>Robert Dickson
>RV-6A
>Carrboro NC
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | high density d-sub pins |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
I keep both the male and female high density pins in stock, though not
listed on my website like the regular density pins (I should do that one of
these days).
Drop me a line off list and I'll get you some on the way.
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
Dickson
Subject: AeroElectric-List: high density d-sub pins
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Dickson
<robert@thenews-journal.com>
yet another question. . .
I'm interested in adding music to my flying experiences so i want to
wire my Garmin 340 audio panel to accept input from my ipod. I've got
the wiring diagram but have discovered that the plug is a high density
d-sub and needs different pins than the ones I've got.
I'm assuming I'll be able to get the pins at my local electronics
supply house since they carry the regular d-subs, but will my Eclipse
crimper also crimp the high density pins?
I guess I'm really asking what's the difference between the regular
ones and the high density version.
thanks,
Robert Dickson
RV-6A
Carrboro NC
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: CBA-II battery tester and $low$ NiMh cells |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja@starpower.net>
Maybe I missed it but I don't believe anyone responded to my 4/26/05
comment and question as repeated below. My assumption is that for
confirming that the installed battery has adequate capacity to support
some known endurance-buss load, a battery capacity-test should duplicate
the constant current load that the buss must support for a
pre-determined time. OR is it that most buss loads operate on
proportionally less current as buss voltage drops, similar to the way a
typical resistive load responds, and therefore a resistive test-load is
adequate, rather than a constant-current load?
J. Mcculley wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja@starpower.net>
>
>
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III cells wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls@cox.net>
cells
>
>
>
> <SNIP> The curve is neat but the only thing we're interested in is that
>
>> intersection with 11.0 volts. That can be a simple comparator and
>> timer mechanism teamed with a set of resistors tailored to emulate
>> your e-loads . . . I don't think it needs to be complicated to
>> be very useful.<SNIP>
>
>
>> Bob . . .
>
>
>
> Since resistors won't maintain a constant current as the voltage falls
> toward the desired end-point cutoff, how about using the higher current
> rated versions of the LM 317 linear regulator wired in the constant
> current configuration? I have done this for lower current requirements
> using the 5 amp rated chip. Could several of these be wired in parallel
> to obtain the desired total discharge current? I haven't had a need to
> do this higher current load and so don't know they would perform in
> parallel, but would guess that works. Anyone know for sure?
>
> Jim McCulley
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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