Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:39 AM - Re: cannot download Z13 dwg...( or any Z) (Robert du Plooy)
2. 03:00 AM - Re: Re: cannot download Z13 dwg...( or any Z) (Wayne Glasser)
3. 05:24 AM - Weird audio panel panel (Mark & Lisa)
4. 05:29 AM - Re: Thermocouples in an ultralight - theory help, please? (Eric M. Jones)
5. 05:53 AM - Battery Maintainer More (John Schroeder)
6. 06:50 AM - Re: Re: Thermocouples in an ultralight - theory (Earl_Schroeder)
7. 06:51 AM - Re: Thermocouples in an ultralight - theory (Richard Riley)
8. 07:25 AM - Re: Re: battery maintainer More (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
9. 07:50 AM - Re: Difficulties with AC motor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 07:53 AM - Re: Battery Maintainer More (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 08:11 AM - Battery Charger/Maintainer/Desulphators (WRBYARS@aol.com)
12. 08:13 AM - Re: Thermocouples in an ultralight - theory (Dave Morris)
13. 08:31 AM - 40amp Denso Aerosport Alternator ()
14. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: battery maintainer More (Paul Wilson)
15. 11:14 AM - Denso Alternator's with built in regulator and field input. (Doerr, Ray R [NTK])
16. 11:49 AM - Re: Denso Alternator's with built in regulator and field input. (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
17. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: battery maintainer More (David Carter)
18. 06:53 PM - Re: Devil's advocate (Mike Larkin)
19. 07:39 PM - Near miss with lightning (David A. Leonard)
20. 07:52 PM - Re: Near miss with lightning (Cory Emberson)
21. 08:05 PM - Re: Near miss with lightning (Charlie England)
22. 09:25 PM - Re: Near miss with lightning (Dave Morris \)
23. 09:49 PM - Stuck transmit lite on microair 760 (Rick Fogerson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: cannot download Z13 dwg...( or any Z) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert du Plooy" <rduplooy@iafrica.com>
I can download most of the "downloads on Bob's website...however I cannot
download the Zdwgs .pdf files?
I only need to get Z-13...it comes up with the Adobe logo..but no
download...is there a problem with the URL address ?
Thanks
Robert du Plooy
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: cannot download Z13 dwg...( or any Z) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec@bigpond.net.au>
Robert
You may have the wrong version of Adobe, try updating it as I have
experienced this problem before.
Regards
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert du Plooy" <rduplooy@iafrica.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: cannot download Z13 dwg...( or any Z)
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert du Plooy"
> <rduplooy@iafrica.com>
>
> I can download most of the "downloads on Bob's website...however I cannot
> download the Zdwgs .pdf files?
>
> I only need to get Z-13...it comes up with the Adobe logo..but no
> download...is there a problem with the URL address ?
>
> Thanks
> Robert du Plooy
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Weird audio panel panel |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark & Lisa" <marknlisa@hometel.com>
Ok Guy & Gals,
Here's the deal. I've got a Terra TMA 340D audio panel that's been acting
up. Everything seems to work except when I press the mic button to transmit
on com 1/2 all I get is a carrier -- no mic audio.
My (FAA certified) avionics guy has been over the thing a couple of times
and can't find anything wrong with it. We assumed there might be a problem
with the intercom. We took the intercom out and bench tested it -- it's
fine. Since it works we know the headset mics and wiring to and from the
mics is good. We then "borrowed" a panel from another individual and
installed it my acft -- it worked fine. We took my panel back to the shop
and still can't find anything wrong. We rigged a bench test environment
that simulates my acft and the panel works fine on his bench.
So, the question is: What type of problem would cause the audio panel to
lose mic audio in the acft but not on the bench?
Mark & Lisa Sletten
Legacy FG N828LM
http://www.legacyfgbuilder.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Thermocouples in an ultralight - theory help, please? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker"
<retasker@optonline.net>
please?
>Baloney. If, as the original poster suggests, the instrument and the
>end of the TC probe are at the same temperature you could connect them
>with anything you want to.
Richard, I ditto your "baloney".
What Richard says is on the money.
I want to observe that arguments can go on forever because nobody will just
take their thermocouple meter and run a little experiment. As a worst case,
theory says, you might need a minor recalibration.
So just do it.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
"Life may have no meaning. Or even worse, it may have a meaning of which I
disapprove." -- Ashleigh Brilliant
Message 5
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| Subject: | Battery Maintainer More |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Hello Bob -
I downloaded your paper that was cited in one of your posts this week, and
also the pictures of the Harbor Freight load tester. I did a two pager of
the latter pictures and email and folded it into the original paper for
you.
Let me know what email address I can send the combined .pdf file to.
I hope this is a help to your busy world of helping us folks in the OBAM
community.
Cheers,
John
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Thermocouples in an ultralight - theory |
help, please?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Earl_Schroeder <Earl_Schroeder@juno.com>
Richard [and Eric], I too ditto your "baloney". I was going to jump in
but my energy level had peaked at the minimum level. I believe
thermocouples are one of the most misunderstood systems in aircraft.
Perhaps working with them for 30+ years at GE has enlightened me a bit.
However, care must be taken with the unpowered meter only readouts since
they are calibrated with a certain lead resistance. If confusion still
exists, ask Richard for more details. Earl
Eric M. Jones wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker"
><retasker@optonline.net>
>please?
>
>
>
>>Baloney. If, as the original poster suggests, the instrument and the
>>end of the TC probe are at the same temperature you could connect them
>>with anything you want to.
>>
>>
>
>Richard, I ditto your "baloney".
>
>What Richard says is on the money.
>
>I want to observe that arguments can go on forever because nobody will just
>take their thermocouple meter and run a little experiment. As a worst case,
>theory says, you might need a minor recalibration.
>
>So just do it.
>
>Regards,
>Eric M. Jones
>www.PerihelionDesign.com
>113 Brentwood Drive
>Southbridge MA 01550-2705
>Phone (508) 764-2072
>Email: emjones@charter.net
>
>"Life may have no meaning. Or even worse, it may have a meaning of which I
>disapprove." -- Ashleigh Brilliant
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Thermocouples in an ultralight - theory |
help, please?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley <richard@riley.net> help,
please?
At 09:07 PM 6/9/05, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker"
><retasker@optonline.net> please?
>
>Furthermore, the errors would not be "large" in any case. In fact, any
>error will be exactly the difference in temperature between the
>TC/copper wire junction and the copper wire/instrument junction. Unless
>either of these junctions are very close to the engine, the practical
>difference is minimal.
Great, that's as I understood. I was afraid the error was a *function* of
the temperature difference, some multiple of it, and would be amplified at
the end. If it's exactly the same, in this installation it should be a
degree or two.
This installation is almost surreal in it's simplicity. 7 wires total - 2
each for CHT and EGT, one for a tach, one for ign and one for a
starter. At the same time, in the same hangar, I'm doing a Z-14 fully
redundant IFR panel, all glass WAAS/EFIS Uuber Cruiser.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: battery maintainer More |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Speaking of which I measured the behaviour of the Harbor freight $7
float charger.
I don't think the battery I had was very discharged so when I hooked it
it up it got the volts up fom 12.75 to 13 within about an hour...This
morning its sitting at about 13.4V
Seems OK for a 600mA charger don't ya think?
Frank
Hmmmm . . . doesn't like like this critter goes into much
of a maintenance mode . . . endpoint voltage is less than
the float voltage of a fully charged battery. Further,
we don't know if it went into a top-off mode by pulling
the battery up to better than 14 volts.
>Don't know how high it got.
> To lazy to do the same test on my small lawn tractor battery
>(similar to a light plane battery). It is a glass matt with 340 cca,
>?AH and after a being plugged in for a week I remember the volts were
around 12.6.
> The charger sells for $42 to $27 on the net, locally for $28.95.
> Seems like it wont hurt a battery if left plugged in for long
>periods. It comes with a bracket to mount under the hood of a car and
>had bolted eyelets. A portable version with clips is SE1562A sells for
>an extra $4 locally.
You're correct, it won't hurt the battery on long term charge,
but it would be interesting to know how well it works
for topping off a dead battery and then storing it. The
numbers you've cited don't offer warm fuzzies about it.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Difficulties with AC motor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 05:08 PM 6/9/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: chad-c_sip@stanfordalumni.org
>
>In our own hangar we'll have no problem setting up our own ground cart to run
>the A/C at full power. The desire was to have the ability to run a 110
>extension cord to any old outlet anywhere to cool the plane down a bit before
>climbing in. Even if the A/C can only remove 1/4 the BTUs of heat as at full
>power I'll take it. Instead of having the compressor come on only part time,
>it'll just run 100% duty cycle.
>
>I'm not sure that the FBOs on foreign fields will let us borrow a GPU for 20
>minutes every time we want to fly home. And certainly, if the effective
>cooling we get is near nil then we'll pull the AC-DC converter and give up on
>the idea of running the A/C off 110 power. But until then I'd like to give it
>a shot and see if it can actually cool the airplane down. After all, it's an
>experimental airplane. This sounds like an experiment worth at least trying.
The first experiment I would run is:
(1) how long does it take to cool the airplane down to
"tolerable" temperatures after a hot-soak on the ramp.
I used to fly an A-36 with air-conditioning and it had
enough cooling capacity to bring the cockpit down to
tolerable in 2-3 minutes.
A long 110 vac extension cord can probably be depended upon
for 10A or less (about 1000 watts). You could install a
28v switch mode power supply that would deliver 35-40
amps. This supply should weigh under 10 pounds.
Arrange to support ship's batteries with the supply and
turn the A/C on a pre-determined and tightly observed
number of minutes before boarding. The 60 A running load
on batteries would be mitigated by 35 to 40A supporting
power from the supply. This means ship's batteries need
to support 20-30 amps for say up to 5 minutes. 150 ampere
minutes is less than 3 ampere hours of battery capacity.
Shouldn't be a big deal.
Whatever you try that will allow long term operation
at limited voltage has a number of risks. I think you'll
get much better (and highly predicable) results from
running the system at rated design voltage and installing
limited ground support and/or up-sizing ship's batteries
to support the requirement.
If you wanted heavier duty ground support, you could
develop a very light 2-cycle APU that could drive a
60-100A alternator. I suspect you could put this together
for 20-25 pounds of weight budget.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Maintainer More |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 08:46 AM 6/10/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder"
><jschroeder@perigee.net>
>
>Hello Bob -
>
>I downloaded your paper that was cited in one of your posts this week, and
>also the pictures of the Harbor Freight load tester. I did a two pager of
>the latter pictures and email and folded it into the original paper for
>you.
>
>Let me know what email address I can send the combined .pdf file to.
Thanks for the offer . . . I have Adobe Acrobat and have considered
combining the documents as you've suggested. I'm leaning toward
a rewrite of the battery chapter in the 'Connection to include
essential particulars of battery maintenance and testing discussed
here recently . . . a Rev 11.5 change that I could publish on
the website and incorporate onto paper the next time we go to
print.
>I hope this is a help to your busy world of helping us folks in the OBAM
>community.
Thank you for the kind words . . .
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Battery Charger/Maintainer/Desulphators |
luscombe-silvaire@yahoogroups.com,
vintage-and-warbirds@yahoogroups.com
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: WRBYARS@aol.com
Greetings to All,
I've been reading the posts pertaining to battery maintenance and am
wondering if any of you on the lists are, or have, used the charger/maintainer
and
desulphator units?
For years I too had problems with battery operation and longevity, then I
came across an article about desulphator's and It all made since. I got on the
web and started researching these units, and desulphation itself, and thought
I'd give it a try. The units from the company that I've included here were
inexpensive so I ordered one.
That was (2) years ago; I've taken batteries that my friends had taken out
of their airplanes, cars, and trucks, as "dead", and ran them through the
charging/desulphation process and have saved, and am now using about 95% of them.
Periodically I'll hook my airplane, etc., up for a trickle charge and so far
they haven't failed me when needed.
I was just wondering If anyone else was or had tried this process. Also for
you that like to build electronic "stuff", there are plans on the net to do
your own.
Bill Byars
1949 T8F
_http://www.vdcelectronics.com/index.htm_
(http://www.vdcelectronics.com/index.htm)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Thermocouples in an ultralight - theory |
help, please?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris <BigD@DaveMorris.com> help,
please?
I for one would enjoy a discussion of how a spark plug CHT probe works. It
looks to me like "a ring terminal connected to some red and white marketing
hype" to produce an expensive part that nobody understands. What sort of
EMF is produced, where is it produced, can I use regular ole butt splices
to extend the special wires, and what other precautions do I need to take
when running the wire through the baffling, through the firewall, up into
the cockpit to my canopy-mounted instrument panel? If this has already
been hashed out somewhere, point me to the site :)
Thanks,
Dave Morris
At 11:07 PM 6/9/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker"
><retasker@optonline.net> please?
>
>Baloney. If, as the original poster suggests, the instrument and the
>end of the TC probe are at the same temperature you could connect them
>with anything you want to. The reason that one normally uses
>thermocouple extension wire to connect a TC probe to the remote mounted
>instrument is because they are frequently at different temperatures -
>and probably unpredictably different. For that case it is important to
>use extension wire.
>
>If the two junctions are at the same temperature, any emf generated is
>either canceled out or is only the same as it the copper wire wasn't
>there. That is, the terminals that the TC wire normally connects to on
>the instrument are probably copper or brass or possibly nickel plated.
>The connection between the TC wires generates an EMF that is canceled
>out by the cold junction compensation circuitry in the instrument. If
>you add a length of wire between the TC and the instrument, and assuming
>the two junctions are at the same temperature, you have done nothing but
>move the location of the cold junction - the EMFs at the instrument will
>be exactly the same as without the additional copper wire.
>
>Furthermore, the errors would not be "large" in any case. In fact, any
>error will be exactly the difference in temperature between the
>TC/copper wire junction and the copper wire/instrument junction. Unless
>either of these junctions are very close to the engine, the practical
>difference is minimal.
>
>All the above applies to the original poster's situation. In a "normal"
>GA or experimental with a closed cowl and a separate cockpit, the errors
>could be significant.
>
>If you want more theory, just ask and I can give it to you. :-)
>
>Dick Tasker
>
>AI Nut wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
> >
> >Copper, indeed any metal that is not what that particular TC was
> >calibrated with, will most likely incude large errors in the final readings.
> >
> >
> >Robert L. Nuckolls, III help wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net> help, please?
> >>
> >>At 10:52 PM 6/8/2005 -0700, you wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley <richard@riley.net>
> >>>
> >>>I'm installing a 22 hp single cyl 2 stroke in an open frame ultralight.
> >>>
> >>>I'm using a CHT/EGT combo analog gauge. Can I transition from the
> >>>thermocouple wire to copper at the end of the probe wire? Since
> everything
> >>>is out in the open air, and thus should all be at about the same
> >>>temperature?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> If you have a stand-alone gage (like View -C- in Figure 14-10
> >> of 'Connection or in:
> >>
> >>http://aeroelectric.com/articles/excerpt.pdf
> >>
> >> then the instrument is calibrated assuming that the cold
> >> junction occurs inside or at the rear of the instrument.
> >> In an airplane like an ultralight, your supposition that
> >> ambient temperatures at a remote cold junction and at
> >> the instrument will be fairly close is a good one . . .
> >> as long as the remote junction is not exposed to localized
> >> heating from the engine.
> >>
> >> The always-proper way to extend thermocouples in any
> >> instrumentation package is with thermocouple wire which
> >> is readily available as cited in another post. In this
> >> case, however, you're not likely to introduce serious
> >> errors by using copper to extend the wires.
> >>
> >> Bob . . .
> >>
> >>
> >>.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>--
>----
>Please Note:
>No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede,
>however,
>that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily
>inconvenienced.
>----
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | 40amp Denso Aerosport Alternator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
>Any info on this alternator/regulator setup will be very handy.Am just unpacking
my >Aero Sport engine with a 40AMP Alt.
>Regards Chris Byrne
Chris|:
The 40 amps Denso is great and highly recommend it. No doubt similar to the one
niagarairparts.com sells. E-mail the part number to me and I can get you detailed
info. All the modern Denso have an IC chip voltage regulator (VR) that controls
voltage and protects against over voltage (OV). You have choices:
1) Use the alternator with internal VR as per the installation instruction (if
you dont have them see niagaraairparts.com).
2) Use alternator but add a b-lead OV protection device such as http://www.periheliondesign.com/LOVM.htm
3) Modify it for an external voltage regulator that has an OV protection or add
a crow bar per Bobs instruction or buy a modern external VR with internal OV
protection.
4) Buy B& C alternator and voltage regulator for over $600.
Recommend choice #1. You will get different opinions and some feel the internal
VR is not acceptable to use as is or at all. I respectfully disagree and 1000's
are flying with no problem. In 10 years this will be old news and the internal
regulator will be the accepted practice. External voltage regulators are some
what a throw back due to technical limitations of old technology. Internal
VR are safe and reliable and the service history really supports this.
Dont recommend choice #2, add on OV protection on an alternator that has internal
VR and internal OV protection. I am not against the external VR, but feel the
internal version is excellent and works as is. Also the external b-lead OV
disconnect relay may cause problems. Less is more, less failure points, weight
and cost. If you want external protection than you should go the choice #3 or
#4, in my opinion.
Choice # 3 is possible and I have info on doing the mod, but have not tried the
mod myself. I think this is a waste, but if you want to do this I can point you
to info on how to do the mod and what external regulator to use. OV protection
can be provided several ways.
Choice #4, nice products but too expensive. I have bought 40amp Denso for $90 new
and regulators for $30. I cant see almost $700 for an alternator for an experimental
airplane.
The concern Bob and others have with choice #1 is they feel that you can have a
failure of the internal VR field driver transistor, causing an OV. In theory
it is possible but no one has shown cases where any Denso, specifically a 40 amp
model, failed in this manner that caused an OV problem. If anyone has step
up to the plate and give the us the facts. The stories always seem very sketchy
at best with no details. Many OV stories involve older planes with external
voltage regulators that have two transistors and no OV protection. That is why
add-on external OV protection modules were invented in the first place many decades
ago, they needed them.
The modern reliability of electronics in a Denso, makes the likely hood of having
an OV failure a rare occurrence, not impossible but very unlikely. How likely
is it that your wing will fall off? Impossible? No, unlikely? Yes.
The IC chip in your Denso alternator is very sophisticated, with 1000-3500 transistors
and internal fault protection and monitoring. The drive transistor, external
to the IC, is part of the voltage regulators architecture. In the failure
scenario people claim this fails, which by-passes the IC chip control, allowing
the alternator to go to full output. For this to happen, the transistor must
fail in a very specific way (short). I never heard anyone with definitive
proof that this has ever happened in an alternator, or even know what the exact
transistor part number is. To make comparisons about transistors failing in
other applications is not valid unless you know what kind of transistor you are
talking about and how it is used. I have not nailed down the exact transistor,
such as a MOSFET, JFET or BJT, let me know if you find out. I am not going
to destroy my alternator to find out. Denso USA can not provide the information,
since all their real technical info is in Jap
an.
I have called Denso, auto electric shops and checked the Highway safety database
for alternator failures, fires, recalls and service problems and the Denso,
which seems to be very reliable and no reports of OV. Some alternators (Ford,
Hitachi) have had some problems, causing auto fires, but not the Denso brand.
Again the facts against the Denso, with the internal VR are few and far between.
I guess B&C who sells a product that cost 3 or 4 or 6 times as much, is going
to hype it a little, which is all fair in war and sales I guess. Not a put
down of B&C, they make a great product but I find the prices too high.
Even if a failure does occurs it would most likely cause a passive problem, meaning
the alternator will just stop producing. All alternators for cars have internal
a VR. Why? Also it is true getting an internal VR alternator certified
in a factory plane may be difficult, but who cares if you have an experimental.
Certification does not mean it is perfect; In fact all the old aircraft electrical
systems based on a 1950 Ford auto technology is certified! There are 1000s
of factory planes flying with truly terrible electrical systems everyday.
In fact if you wanted to design an electrical system for a certified plane you
could base it on a Ford model T generator and some mechanical VR (with points
and relays) and get it certified, as long as it is like an existing design.
I would much rather have a modern internally regulated Denso alternator. Just
because it cant be installed in a 1959 Cessna does not make it bad. There are
probably 100s or even 1000s of internally reg
ulated
Denso alternators flying around with no problem, not to mention millions and millions
of cars, trucks and industrial equipment. Install your aerosport alternator
and enjoy and don't worry.
Cheers George
---------------------------------
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: battery maintainer More |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Wilson <pwilson@climber.org>
Bob,
Thanks for the comments.
Paul
=========
0:59 PM 6/9/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
>At 09:00 AM 6/8/2005 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Wilson <pwilson@climber.org>
> >
> >I have an "automatic 1.5 amp Schumacher SE-1-12S" I use all the time for
> >various batteries, tractor, un-used truck etc. This unit is stocked a the
> >local battery store so is readily available. I think I got mine at Walmart
> >years ago. With all the discussion I decided to see how it works. I put it
> >on a yellow Optima which is a deep cycle spiral glass matt 750 cca, 55AH.
> >Too big for a plane but a good choice for a car/truck. Weighs 46 pounds.
> > I just clock watched to see what the volts were.
> >initial 12.38 after sitting for 6 months
> >1 minute 12.94
> >2 minutes 13.45
> >1 hour 12.76
> >3 hours 12.67
> >22 hours 12.68
>
> Hmmmm . . . doesn't like like this critter goes into much
> of a maintenance mode . . . endpoint voltage is less than
> the float voltage of a fully charged battery. Further,
> we don't know if it went into a top-off mode by pulling
> the battery up to better than 14 volts.
>
> >Don't know how high it got.
> > To lazy to do the same test on my small lawn tractor battery (similar to
> >a light plane battery). It is a glass matt with 340 cca, ?AH and after a
> >being plugged in for a week I remember the volts were around 12.6.
> > The charger sells for $42 to $27 on the net, locally for $28.95.
> > Seems like it wont hurt a battery if left plugged in for long periods. It
> >comes with a bracket to mount under the hood of a car and had bolted
> >eyelets. A portable version with clips is SE1562A sells for an extra $4
> >locally.
>
> You're correct, it won't hurt the battery on long term charge,
> but it would be interesting to know how well it works
> for topping off a dead battery and then storing it. The
> numbers you've cited don't offer warm fuzzies about it.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Denso Alternator's with built in regulator and field |
input.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com>
I like the Denso Alternator unit that Aerosport Power sells.
They have a 40Amp and an 80 Amp unit. Does anyone know the actual part
numbers for these units and if there are other Amp version with these
similar features and specs?
Also if one of these were purchased at your local Auto Part
dealer, is there anything that needs to be done with them to be able to
be mounted and used on an Lycoming in an RV?
Thank You
Ray Doerr
RV-10
40250
Message 16
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| Subject: | Denso Alternator's with built in regulator and |
field input.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I went to my local autozone and bout a Toyota Camry unit...This is a
Denso unit but it is rebuilt...Lots of dtebate as to how reliable it
will be.
It will come with a serpentine belt so you will need a 3/8ths V pulley
of about 2.5 inch...to 4" diameter...I got mine mail order from "Green
Bay rebuilders"....They knew the bore diameter (15mm I think) and the
required offset.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Doerr, Ray R [NTK]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Denso Alternator's with built in regulator
and field input.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]"
--> <Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com>
I like the Denso Alternator unit that Aerosport Power sells.
They have a 40Amp and an 80 Amp unit. Does anyone know the actual part
numbers for these units and if there are other Amp version with these
similar features and specs?
Also if one of these were purchased at your local Auto Part
dealer, is there anything that needs to be done with them to be able to
be mounted and used on an Lycoming in an RV?
Thank You
Ray Doerr
RV-10
40250
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: battery maintainer More |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
As previously stated, I have a Schumcher and have reported that it applies a
gradually increasing charging voltage until it hits 14.4 or so, then shuts
OFF and lets battery self-discharge to 12.99 (13) v at which time it starts
another charging cycle.
- With a fully charged battery, it takes about 1 second to go from 13 to
14.4 v and maybe 15 minutes to much longer to self-discharge down to 13 v
again.
- With a discharged battery, it will hang in the 13.5 v area for a long
time (at either 2 amps or 10 amps, selectable, with 10 amps being for faster
recharge of a discharged battery), gradually increasing top 14.4 v again -
may take 15 minutes, may take 30 minutes, may take an hour, but as the
battery takes more charge, the cycle time decreases until it is "on 1
second" and "off for a long time".
- I put the digital VOM on the two alligator clips on the battery
terminals and sit and sip lemonade while watching the charger do its thing -
I've gone thru 2 (still on my 2nd) - when it quits performing as I've
described, the charger is broken or the battery is bad.
It looks to me like the reported numbers that started this current "thread"
were taken at random times, without any regard to where the charger and
battery were in "the cycle of charge & discharge". So, I don't think the
comment about "Hmmmm . . . doesn't like like this critter goes into much of
a maintenance mode . . . endpoint voltage is less than the float voltage of
a fully charged battery. Further, we don't know if it went into a top-off
mode by pulling
the battery up to better than 14 volts." reflects knowledge of the
Schumacher performance
- there is no "maintenance mode" - it shuts OFF - NO voltage, until it
starts pumping current thru again at 13v up to 14.4.
Just trying again to shed some light on how this charger works. Everytime
I've commented in the past it seems to have gone unnoticed and
un-acknowledged.
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: battery maintainer More
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 09:00 AM 6/8/2005 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Wilson
<pwilson@climber.org>
> >
> >I have an "automatic 1.5 amp Schumacher SE-1-12S" I use all the time for
> >various batteries, tractor, un-used truck etc. This unit is stocked a the
> >local battery store so is readily available. I think I got mine at
Walmart
> >years ago. With all the discussion I decided to see how it works. I put
it
> >on a yellow Optima which is a deep cycle spiral glass matt 750 cca, 55AH.
> >Too big for a plane but a good choice for a car/truck. Weighs 46 pounds.
> > I just clock watched to see what the volts were.
> >initial 12.38 after sitting for 6 months
> >1 minute 12.94
> >2 minutes 13.45
> >1 hour 12.76
> >3 hours 12.67
> >22 hours 12.68
>
> Hmmmm . . . doesn't like like this critter goes into much
> of a maintenance mode . . . endpoint voltage is less than
> the float voltage of a fully charged battery. Further,
> we don't know if it went into a top-off mode by pulling
> the battery up to better than 14 volts.
>
> >Don't know how high it got.
> > To lazy to do the same test on my small lawn tractor battery (similar
to
> >a light plane battery). It is a glass matt with 340 cca, ?AH and after a
> >being plugged in for a week I remember the volts were around 12.6.
> > The charger sells for $42 to $27 on the net, locally for $28.95.
> > Seems like it wont hurt a battery if left plugged in for long periods.
It
> >comes with a bracket to mount under the hood of a car and had bolted
> >eyelets. A portable version with clips is SE1562A sells for an extra $4
> >locally.
>
> You're correct, it won't hurt the battery on long term charge,
> but it would be interesting to know how well it works
> for topping off a dead battery and then storing it. The
> numbers you've cited don't offer warm fuzzies about it.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Devil's advocate |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Larkin" <mlas@cox.net>
Less than 10% is IFR, less than 1% without a VFR out. I have had to use
a stby EFIS (attitude, altitude, and airspeed) when my vacuum pump
failed in IMC.
But I fly more then most about 850hrs. a year....
Mike
A320, TS-11 Iskra, Lancair Legacy..
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Checkoway
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Devil's advocate
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
<dan@rvproject.com>
Homebuilt fliers out there who are instrument rated and keep current and
really do fly IFR in your plane...here is a poll of sorts:
- What % of your flying is IFR?
- What % of your flying is in solid IMC without a VFR "out"?
I consider myself more active than the average private pilot who flies
for
fun. In the past 12 months, I flew 405 hours, 13.5 of which were actual
instrument...3% of my flying. Approximately 3 of those hours were in
solid
IMC with no VFR "out." That's less than 1% of my flying. Zero hours
IFR at
night in the past year.
Has anybody out there ever actually used a standby alternator in IMC?
How about in VMC...has anybody had a primary alternator fail, and then
flew
multiple legs home (more than just a local hop, i.e. a real cross
country
trip) using the standby alternator?
Just curious.
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
--
--
Message 19
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| Subject: | Near miss with lightning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David A. Leonard" <dleonar1@maine.rr.com>
I was standing in my garage today, during the light rain before a distant
thunderstorm, thunder off in the distance, nothing going on nearby.
I was leaning against the garage door track, wearing sox, standing on a
slightly damp garage floor, talking to a friend in her car. Suddenely I
got one hell of a shock, in my hand, that was on the track, down the right
side of my body, and out my foot. The ball of my foot and my toes are still
tingling now from the burn, this being three hours later.
In the past, during an intense storm, I have seen sparks shoot off the
garage door track, and shoot to the floor, and I have lost multiple door
opener boards, so I was aware of the " potential. I really thought that
the storm was off in the distance, nothing nearby. I guess I thought
wrong! I'm happy to be alive!
I have been doing some reading, apparently the charges travel 6-8 miles
from the ground to the clouds. If you can hear thunder at all, you are in
danger. I think that the metal garage door tracks are great antennae and
though they are buried in the concrete, the ground is dry, and when they
charge a lot, the electricity can jump the gap to the floor. I think the
damp concrete and my sweaty hand were better conductors, and I completed
the circuit, long before the charge was enough to jump to the floor.
I always thought staying off the phone was bullshit, but I am rethinking
that one. Large metal objects like phone wires, appliances and any other
metal will act as antennas.
While I am not sure if this counts as being " hit by lightning" , it is
absolutely as close as I care to become intimate with the subject!
YIKES, my wife was watching, they asked if I was okay, I said yes ( In
shock I think..) and they left.. later I felt less okay...not sick or
damaged, just that "cheated death again" type of rush letdown.
I seem top be okay, I've been hit harder by 220, but YIKES.
I think I am going to electrically connect all the garage door tracks, and
then drive a six foot ground rod into the dirt driveway, and connect a
piece of jumper cable wire between them to bond the electrical
potential. Being that jumper wasn't cool. My thinking is that this will
make the electrical charge of the nearby ground and the tracks equal. This
will not stop a direct strike to the house, but I think it will remove the
difference in charge between the tracks and the floor. Anyone know about
this subject?
The obvious answer is to stay away from the garage in lightning storms..
http://www.ux1.eiu.edu/~cfjps/1400/shockinglecture.html
Reverend Sparky
Message 20
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| Subject: | Near miss with lightning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" <bootless@earthlink.net>
Dear Rev,
WOW. Thanks for sharing your story - that is very valuable information!
Glad you're OK.
best, Cory
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David
A. Leonard
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Near miss with lightning
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David A. Leonard"
<dleonar1@maine.rr.com>
I was standing in my garage today, during the light rain before a distant
thunderstorm, thunder off in the distance, nothing going on nearby.
I was leaning against the garage door track, wearing sox, standing on a
slightly damp garage floor, talking to a friend in her car. Suddenely I
got one hell of a shock, in my hand, that was on the track, down the right
side of my body, and out my foot. The ball of my foot and my toes are still
tingling now from the burn, this being three hours later.
In the past, during an intense storm, I have seen sparks shoot off the
garage door track, and shoot to the floor, and I have lost multiple door
opener boards, so I was aware of the " potential. I really thought that
the storm was off in the distance, nothing nearby. I guess I thought
wrong! I'm happy to be alive!
I have been doing some reading, apparently the charges travel 6-8 miles
from the ground to the clouds. If you can hear thunder at all, you are in
danger. I think that the metal garage door tracks are great antennae and
though they are buried in the concrete, the ground is dry, and when they
charge a lot, the electricity can jump the gap to the floor. I think the
damp concrete and my sweaty hand were better conductors, and I completed
the circuit, long before the charge was enough to jump to the floor.
I always thought staying off the phone was bullshit, but I am rethinking
that one. Large metal objects like phone wires, appliances and any other
metal will act as antennas.
While I am not sure if this counts as being " hit by lightning" , it is
absolutely as close as I care to become intimate with the subject!
YIKES, my wife was watching, they asked if I was okay, I said yes ( In
shock I think..) and they left.. later I felt less okay...not sick or
damaged, just that "cheated death again" type of rush letdown.
I seem top be okay, I've been hit harder by 220, but YIKES.
I think I am going to electrically connect all the garage door tracks, and
then drive a six foot ground rod into the dirt driveway, and connect a
piece of jumper cable wire between them to bond the electrical
potential. Being that jumper wasn't cool. My thinking is that this will
make the electrical charge of the nearby ground and the tracks equal. This
will not stop a direct strike to the house, but I think it will remove the
difference in charge between the tracks and the floor. Anyone know about
this subject?
The obvious answer is to stay away from the garage in lightning storms..
http://www.ux1.eiu.edu/~cfjps/1400/shockinglecture.html
Reverend Sparky
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Near miss with lightning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
David A. Leonard wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David A. Leonard" <dleonar1@maine.rr.com>
>
>I was standing in my garage today, during the light rain before a distant
>thunderstorm, thunder off in the distance, nothing going on nearby.
>
>I was leaning against the garage door track, wearing sox, standing on a
>slightly damp garage floor, talking to a friend in her car. Suddenely I
>got one hell of a shock, in my hand, that was on the track, down the right
>side of my body, and out my foot. The ball of my foot and my toes are still
>tingling now from the burn, this being three hours later.
>
>In the past, during an intense storm, I have seen sparks shoot off the
>garage door track, and shoot to the floor, and I have lost multiple door
>opener boards, so I was aware of the " potential. I really thought that
>the storm was off in the distance, nothing nearby. I guess I thought
>wrong! I'm happy to be alive!
>
> I have been doing some reading, apparently the charges travel 6-8 miles
>from the ground to the clouds. If you can hear thunder at all, you are in
>danger. I think that the metal garage door tracks are great antennae and
>though they are buried in the concrete, the ground is dry, and when they
>charge a lot, the electricity can jump the gap to the floor. I think the
>damp concrete and my sweaty hand were better conductors, and I completed
>the circuit, long before the charge was enough to jump to the floor.
>
>I always thought staying off the phone was bullshit, but I am rethinking
>that one. Large metal objects like phone wires, appliances and any other
>metal will act as antennas.
>
>While I am not sure if this counts as being " hit by lightning" , it is
>absolutely as close as I care to become intimate with the subject!
>
>
>YIKES, my wife was watching, they asked if I was okay, I said yes ( In
>shock I think..) and they left.. later I felt less okay...not sick or
>damaged, just that "cheated death again" type of rush letdown.
>
>I seem top be okay, I've been hit harder by 220, but YIKES.
>
>I think I am going to electrically connect all the garage door tracks, and
>then drive a six foot ground rod into the dirt driveway, and connect a
>piece of jumper cable wire between them to bond the electrical
>potential. Being that jumper wasn't cool. My thinking is that this will
>make the electrical charge of the nearby ground and the tracks equal. This
>will not stop a direct strike to the house, but I think it will remove the
>difference in charge between the tracks and the floor. Anyone know about
>this subject?
>
>The obvious answer is to stay away from the garage in lightning storms..
>
>http://www.ux1.eiu.edu/~cfjps/1400/shockinglecture.html
>
>Reverend Sparky
>
No hard scientific insight, but I can tell you that staying away from
the garage during storms might be a very good idea, based on your
accounts of prior hits. In one of my prior lives (electronics repair &
installation) I did a lot of lightning related repairs. Most of my
customers were limited to a single hit during my career, but I had a few
customers that got hit several times over a 10 year span. One person had
5 or 6 hits. Some locations and/or structures just seem to attract
higher than 'normal' lightning activity.
Charlie
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Near miss with lightning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
I learned some interesting lessons while living in Albuquerque in the late
70's. I had a large ham radio antenna on a 50 foot tower. Sometimes I
could pull 2 or 3 inch arcs from the center conductor of my coax cable to
the grounded chassis of my amplifier, even when there was no lightning,
just rain. We have to remember that those clouds have a very different
electrical charge than ground, whether there is lightning or not. You
might be really surprised what happens to the charge on your fuselage just
flying through the rain.
Dave Morris
At 09:26 PM 6/10/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David A. Leonard"
><dleonar1@maine.rr.com>
>
>I was standing in my garage today, during the light rain before a distant
>thunderstorm, thunder off in the distance, nothing going on nearby.
>
>I was leaning against the garage door track, wearing sox, standing on a
>slightly damp garage floor, talking to a friend in her car. Suddenely I
>got one hell of a shock, in my hand, that was on the track, down the right
>side of my body, and out my foot. The ball of my foot and my toes are still
>tingling now from the burn, this being three hours later.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Stuck transmit lite on microair 760 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
Hi Bob,
I'm trying to trouble shoot a problem with the Microair 760 transeiver. With the
microphone plugged into the jack, pushing the PTT button (ray allen stick grip)
causes the red (transmit) lite on the transeiver to stay on after the button
is released. Only when I pull out the mic does it go off. With the mic out,
the red lite comes on when the PTT is pushed and goes out, as it should, when
the PTT is released. Do you have any idea what might be wrong.
Thanks, Rick Fogerson
RV-3 about 2 months to flying
Boise, ID
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