Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:50 AM - Re: Near miss with lightning (Eric M. Jones)
2. 07:19 AM - Re: Stuck transmit lite on microair 760 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: battery maintainer More (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 07:58 AM - Re: 40amp Denso Aerosport Alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:59 AM - Re: Thermocouples in an ultralight - theory (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 09:08 AM - Re: Denso Alternator's with built in regulator and (Jim Oke)
7. 09:44 AM - Re: Clarification of Stuck transmit lite on microair 760 (Rick Fogerson)
8. 11:44 AM - Re: Difficulties with AC motor (Charlie England)
9. 12:51 PM - Re: Devil's advocate (John Swartout)
10. 01:17 PM - Denso Alternator's with built in regulator ()
11. 02:45 PM - Re: 40amp Denso Aerosport Alternator (Alex Peterson)
12. 05:50 PM - Re: Clarification of Stuck transmit lite on microair 760 (Bill Maxwell)
13. 07:14 PM - Selective Radio Reception (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
14. 07:50 PM - Re: Clarification of Stuck transmit lite (Dave Morris \)
15. 09:27 PM - 2 1/4 Mitchell oil temp (Ken Simmons)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Near miss with lightning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David A. Leonard"
<dleonar1@maine.rr.com>
My father was an engineer on the Westinghouse-Van deGraff atomic accelerator
known as the "Atom Smasher" in East Pittsburgh. During testing he got
seriously zapped by several million volts (but micro-second pulses at low
current his boss said....). Afterwards, Dad replied, "Those were some of the
worst micro-seconds I ever spent."
>I think I am going to electrically connect all the garage door tracks, and
> then drive a six foot ground rod into the dirt driveway, and connect a
> piece of jumper cable wire between them to bond the electrical
> potential.
For bonding the garage door tracks, consider using the water main. It's a
good ground.
Better yet, install a couple lightning rods. (Google or you local electrical
supply). These don't attract lightning, but they do bleed-off charges and
will protect your house in case of a strike. Then install a whole-house
electrical protector at the breaker box. Spend some money for a good one to
protect your phones, cable, and electrical service.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
"The problem with the world is that only the intelligent people want to be
smarter, and only the good people want to improve."
- Eolake Stobblehouse
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Stuck transmit lite on microair 760 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 10:36 PM 6/10/2005 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
>
>Hi Bob,
>I'm trying to trouble shoot a problem with the Microair 760
>transeiver. With the microphone plugged into the jack, pushing the PTT
>button (ray allen stick grip) causes the red (transmit) lite on the
>transeiver to stay on after the button is released. Only when I pull out
>the mic does it go off. With the mic out, the red lite comes on when the
>PTT is pushed and goes out, as it should, when the PTT is released. Do
>you have any idea what might be wrong.
Sounds like something sticking in the mic's PTT
mechanism. This is a VERY common problem with
hand held microphones.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: battery maintainer More |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 06:28 PM 6/10/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter"
><dcarter@datarecall.net>
>
>As previously stated, I have a Schumcher and have reported that it applies a
>gradually increasing charging voltage until it hits 14.4 or so, then shuts
>OFF and lets battery self-discharge to 12.99 (13) v at which time it starts
>another charging cycle.
> - With a fully charged battery, it takes about 1 second to go from 13 to
>14.4 v and maybe 15 minutes to much longer to self-discharge down to 13 v
>again.
> - With a discharged battery, it will hang in the 13.5 v area for a long
>time (at either 2 amps or 10 amps, selectable, with 10 amps being for faster
>recharge of a discharged battery), gradually increasing top 14.4 v again -
>may take 15 minutes, may take 30 minutes, may take an hour, but as the
>battery takes more charge, the cycle time decreases until it is "on 1
>second" and "off for a long time".
> - I put the digital VOM on the two alligator clips on the battery
>terminals and sit and sip lemonade while watching the charger do its thing -
>I've gone thru 2 (still on my 2nd) - when it quits performing as I've
>described, the charger is broken or the battery is bad.
I think this was the protocol option for smart-chargers before
microprocessors came along. And . . . it's an effective protocol
that does a good job of charging/maintaining a battery.
>It looks to me like the reported numbers that started this current "thread"
>were taken at random times, without any regard to where the charger and
>battery were in "the cycle of charge & discharge". So, I don't think the
>comment about "Hmmmm . . . doesn't like like this critter goes into much of
>a maintenance mode . . . endpoint voltage is less than the float voltage of
>a fully charged battery. Further, we don't know if it went into a top-off
>mode by pulling
>the battery up to better than 14 volts." reflects knowledge of the
>Schumacher performance
> - there is no "maintenance mode" - it shuts OFF - NO voltage, until it
>starts pumping current thru again at 13v up to 14.4.
>
>Just trying again to shed some light on how this charger works. Everytime
>I've commented in the past it seems to have gone unnoticed and
>un-acknowledged.
The numbers I've cited for my experiments were continuously monitored
(and plotted) and taken from manufacturer's statements for protocols.
The current crop of battery charger/maintainers are a lot more agile.
I'm finding that Schumacher has DIFFERENT protocols. For example,
the recharge cycle depicted at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/schumacher_2.jpg
is strikingly different than this one:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/schumacher_3.jpg
The earlier trace was taken from the charge/maintenance
protocol for a WM-1562A that I'd mentioned in an earlier
thread. I bought this at Walmart for $18. Folks reported
not being able to find them at their local stores (although
mine still has a half dozen). Last night I picked up its
bigger brother for $25. Much more "smarts" (push-buttons
and lights) and higher recharge capability (6A max).
This was the WM-600A. I'm doing some further experiments
with it now and will report the results as they become
available.
You raise an interesting question that is not obviously
deducible from the plots taken so far . . . does the
"maintenance" mode ACTIVELY support the battery just above
its open circuit voltage -OR- does the charger simply shut
off and wait for the battery to self-discharge to the
point where protocol demands action from the charger
to replace lost energy. I'll find out for the two
Schumacher devices I have on hand.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 40amp Denso Aerosport Alternator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 08:30 AM 6/10/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
>
>
> >Any info on this alternator/regulator setup will be very handy.Am just
> unpacking my >Aero Sport engine with a 40AMP Alt.
>
> >Regards Chris Byrne
>
>
>Chris|:
>
>
>The 40 amps Denso is great and highly recommend it. No doubt similar to
>the one niagarairparts.com sells. E-mail the part number to me and I can
>get you detailed info. All the modern Denso have an IC chip voltage
>regulator (VR) that controls voltage and protects against over voltage
>(OV). You have choices:
>
>
>1) Use the alternator with internal VR as per the installation instruction
>(if you dont have them see niagaraairparts.com).
>
>
>2) Use alternator but add a b-lead OV protection device such as
>http://www.periheliondesign.com/LOVM.htm
>
>
>3) Modify it for an external voltage regulator that has an OV protection
>or add a crow bar per Bobs instruction or buy a modern external VR with
>internal OV protection.
>
>
>4) Buy B& C alternator and voltage regulator for over $600.
>
>
>Recommend choice #1. You will get different opinions and some feel the
>internal VR is not acceptable to use as is or at all. I respectfully
>disagree and 1000's are flying with no problem. In 10 years this will be
>old news and the internal regulator will be the accepted practice.
>External voltage regulators are some what a throw back due to technical
>limitations of old technology. Internal VR are safe and reliable and the
>service history really supports this.
>
>
>Dont recommend choice #2, add on OV protection on an alternator that has
>internal VR and internal OV protection. I am not against the external VR,
>but feel the internal version is excellent and works as is. Also the
>external b-lead OV disconnect relay may cause problems. Less is more, less
>failure points, weight and cost. If you want external protection than you
>should go the choice #3 or #4, in my opinion.
>
>
>Choice # 3 is possible and I have info on doing the mod, but have not
>tried the mod myself. I think this is a waste, but if you want to do this
>I can point you to info on how to do the mod and what external regulator
>to use. OV protection can be provided several ways.
>
>
>Choice #4, nice products but too expensive. I have bought 40amp Denso for
>$90 new and regulators for $30. I cant see almost $700 for an alternator
>for an experimental airplane.
>
>
>The concern Bob and others have with choice #1 is they feel that you can
>have a failure of the internal VR field driver transistor, causing an OV.
>In theory it is possible but no one has shown cases where any Denso,
>specifically a 40 amp model, failed in this manner that caused an OV
>problem. If anyone has step up to the plate and give the us the facts. The
>stories always seem very sketchy at best with no details. Many OV stories
>involve older planes with external voltage regulators that have two
>transistors and no OV protection. That is why add-on external OV
>protection modules were invented in the first place many decades ago, they
>needed them.
Okay, it's your considered recommendation that if one
purchases p/n (xxxxx) from supplier (YYYYY) then OV
protection is not called for. You've cited data to support
your advice. Now, how do we get this information into
the hands of the greatest numbers of builders?
George, you seem to have completely missed the point
I've been trying to illustrate during this endless
thread. YOU and many like you are building ONE airplane.
You may have conversed with others to gather data
on and make selection of specific components in
which you have either trust supported by repeatable
experiments or faith supported by the gross weight of
anecdotal information. In either case, you're certainly
free to go forward with your choice and I wish you well.
Please understand that I write for thousands of builders
working on thousands of airplanes being fabricated all
over the world. Their choices for selection of a suitable
alternator MIGHT include part number (xxxxx) and maybe
they have access to supplier (YYYYY) but I would be
remiss in my duties if I were to LIMIT my recommendations
to this narrow range of choices . . . especially when
I have no data from any repeatable experiments
to support my advice. Further, there are MILLIONS of
alternators with THOUSANDS of part numbers that will
perform very well and free of concerns if we drive
probability of hazardous failure down with layered
systems architecture . . . this is a major component
of FAILURE TOLERANT design. You ASSUME that a part
will fail and then incorporate protection -OR-
alternate technology (Plan B).
When I handed control lock keys of an explosively
launched recovery parachute controller to the pilot who
was going to depend on that system to safe his life
and perhaps his airplane, I could look him right in
the eye and offer that I have done the best I know
how to do. When I write words on this List and for
the 'Connection, I believe am operating with that
same sense of duty to offer the best and most
universally useable information available. I am
pleased that you have discovered what you believe
is the ultimate solution to your system design
goals and parts procurement issues. Please fly them in
good health. The odds are definitely in your favor.
But understand that I've obligated myself to operate
in a wider arena and to offer advice that permits
me to look any builder in the eye and offer that
it's the best and most universally applicable
technology I know how to do right now. I have no
FAITH in the universal performance of all the
automotive alternators available to the OBAM aircraft
community around the world but I do have the
knowledge of countless REPEATABLE EXPERIMENTS
conducted to craft the most failure tolerant
and hazard free systems I know how to do today.
I'm not here to argue against the gospel of
Nipon Denso or any other. I have tools called
Failure Mode Effects Analysis, decades of experience
with others who design, build and fly airplanes
and a personal goal of understanding how things
work and sharing that with anyone who has an
interest. I cannot advise a builder to adopt a
design philosophy that I do not understand or that
he cannot understand AND CONTROL.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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please?@roxy.matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Thermocouples in an ultralight - theory |
help, please?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
help, please?
At 10:12 AM 6/10/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
>help, please?
>
>I for one would enjoy a discussion of how a spark plug CHT probe works. It
>looks to me like "a ring terminal connected to some red and white marketing
>hype" to produce an expensive part that nobody understands. What sort of
>EMF is produced, where is it produced, can I use regular ole butt splices
>to extend the special wires, and what other precautions do I need to take
>when running the wire through the baffling, through the firewall, up into
>the cockpit to my canopy-mounted instrument panel? If this has already
>been hashed out somewhere, point me to the site :)
See chapter 14 of the 'Connection.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Denso Alternator's with built in regulator and |
field input.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca> field input.
Hi Ray;
I have an Aerosport Power 40 Amp Nippon Denso alternator on an RV-6A that came
with the O-320 I bought from them. I liked it so much for size, weight, ease of
installation and general performance that I eventually bought a second one from
Aerosport to replace an older Honda unit on my RV-3.
So far as I can determine the Nippon Denso part number is 18504-6220. Searching the Denso web-site at http://www.densoheavyduty.com/ it appears the actual manufacturer of the unit is the Ishikawajima Company in Japan and that company's part number is 100211-1680.
I do not think there is a common automotive application for this alternator so
they will probably no be readily available at your usual local car parts store.
I asked at a few local stores and was told the main use of this alternator is
in a line of Toyota forklift trucks and some Kubota light tractors but that's
not for sure.
There was a Japanese language spec sheet in the box which I still have but could not make much sense of other than a few basic numbers. It would be "nice" if some one was able to do the technical research to determine what the electrical capabilities of the unit are regarding overvolt protection, load dump tolerance, rapid shutdown capability and so on are. Have a look at ttp://www.vicic.com.tw/alternators/a8062902.htm which seems to be an OEM replacement part number for the regulator on these things from a company in Taiwan which has a few hints about what is included.
I think this is Bob's worry about blindly using automotive alternators on OBAM
aircraft - there is huge variety of externally similar units out there with (probably)
varying electrical properties depending on the original design/cost/capability
tradeoffs. A comprehensive spec sheet for a particular alternator would
be a good start is sorting out the suitable for aircraft use from the unsuitable.
Jim Oke
RV-6A, RV-3
Winnipeg, MB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Denso Alternator's with built in regulator and field
input.
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com>
>
> I like the Denso Alternator unit that Aerosport Power sells.
> They have a 40Amp and an 80 Amp unit. Does anyone know the actual part
> numbers for these units and if there are other Amp version with these
> similar features and specs?
> Also if one of these were purchased at your local Auto Part
> dealer, is there anything that needs to be done with them to be able to
> be mounted and used on an Lycoming in an RV?
>
>
> Thank You
> Ray Doerr
> RV-10
> 40250
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Clarification of Stuck transmit lite on microair |
760
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
Just to clarify that we're both talking apples to apples:
1) Does the fact that it only appears to stick in transmit (only
indication is red light stays on) when the mic jack is plugged in mean
something other than the transmit button is sticky?
2) The button itself does not appear to be sticking, in a mechanical sense
at least. Could it be sticking electrically and not mechanically?
3) Also, it is not a hand held button, it is on the Ray Allen stick grip.
Does that matter?
4) Should I just buy a new stick grip and not mess with it or could it be
something in the Microair?
Thanks in advance for any clarification and/or advice.
Rick
>>Hi Bob,
>>I'm trying to trouble shoot a problem with the Microair 760
>>transeiver. With the microphone plugged into the jack, pushing the PTT
>>button (ray allen stick grip) causes the red (transmit) lite on the
>>transeiver to stay on after the button is released. Only when I pull out
>>the mic does it go off. With the mic out, the red lite comes on when the
>>PTT is pushed and goes out, as it should, when the PTT is released. Do
>>you have any idea what might be wrong.
>
> Sounds like something sticking in the mic's PTT
> mechanism. This is a VERY common problem with
> hand held microphones.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Difficulties with AC motor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
chad-c_sip@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: chad-c_sip@stanfordalumni.org
>
>I'm hoping someone out there can clear something up for me.
>
>We're putting an electrically-powered AC into the Lancair we're building.
>Before we turn on the engine we'd like to be able to run this from 110V ground
>power - rather than simply a GPU cart. Unfortunately, that'll require about
>25-30 amps of 110VAC power to run at full blast (it's 100 Amps max at 28VDC,
>80 for the compressor, 20 for the fans).
>
>So I thought that it'd be nice to run the AC at a reduced power setting that
>only requires a few amps of wall power. Sure, it won't be able to run the AC
>at full blast, but even if it cools a bit we're ahead of the game.
>
>In the last 30 minutes I've been told by two different people that trying to
>run a 28V compressor at 12 or 14VDC will draw more current than it would pull
>at 28. I realize I'm a mechanical engineer, not electrical, but this just
>makes no sense to me whatsoever. Sure, to get equal power out of a motor at
>half the voltage you've gotta run the current higher. But I'm not looking to
>get the same power output at a lower voltage. I've already got a motor wound
>that will draw 80 amps at 28V. How much current will _that_ motor draw when
>fed with 12?
>
>Beyond the current draw issue, is there any other reason I shouldn't be
>attempting this? Is running the compressor at a lower power setting going to
>hurt something somehow?
>
>I'm hoping I'm not off my rocker here and I appreciate the input from
>everyone. And if I'm _am_ off my rocker I'd much rather know that too!
>
>Thanks-
>
>Chad
>
>
>Chad Sipperley
>Lancair IVP-turbine (under construction)
>Phoenix, AZ
>
The guys telling you about higher current are probably thinking about AC
motors. If voltage goes down with some AC motors, current goes up, they
overheat & die.
Some DC motors can be run at full torque & lower rpm (lower total power)
using pulse width modulation where the peaks are at design voltage but
the DC is 'chopped'.
Have you tried running the numbers going the other way? I saw the
suggestion somewhere recently to use a very small window a/c unit. The
new ones are pretty light even in their big steel boxes. If it's gutted
& only the essentials are installed, you might be able to run the 120V
AC compressor off a DC-120V AC inverter while flying & just plug it in
to a regular outlet on the ground.
I've about exceeded my feeble memory (been a while since I had to deal
with this stuff) but maybe this will inspire some more questions...
Charlie
Message 9
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| Subject: | Devil's advocate |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Swartout" <jgswartout@earthlink.net>
Dan:
People have lots of reasons for the decisions they take. I am not
instrument rated nor do I ever plan to be, because I don't think it is
worth the risk for a recreational flyer to fly in IMC. I do fine flying
under the hood. No one has ever been able to explain to me how to do a
forced landing in zero visibility with reasonable chance for survival.
*BUT*, being a professional mariner, one can't help but notice that
commercial vessels are required to have redundant systems for most
safety-critical functions: two radar units, two VHF radios, two (often
3) GPS receivers, discrete emergency steering gear, emergency generator,
gyro compass and magnetic compass, etc. And for vessels intended for
arctic or other very remote service, at least two of several additional
items of equipment.
So, with the primary mission of bush flying, where help is a long way
off (if you can afford it), and you have to be pretty self-reliant, I
opted to install a back-up alternator, 2 P-mags, and haven't ruled out a
second battery. None of this, particularly, to keep the panel alive in
IMC--although that's a nice side benefit. Mainly I want to keep the
engine running, and be able to re-start it even if my alternator fails
nearing the far end of the inbound trip. Hand-propping will be possible
with a dead battery, if I have a 9-volt dry cell and an auxiliary power
jack on the panel, which I plan to install. Once the engine is running,
the P-mags will fire the plugs and the SD-8 will carry all other
essential loads.
Just another opinion...
John
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Checkoway
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Devil's advocate
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
<dan@rvproject.com>
Wow, not too many replies to this thread! Either people aren't flying
IFR,
or they just don't want to admit how little IFR they really do fly
despite
their fancy electrical systems.
Given all the RV builders I know who have or are installing backup
alternators and all sorts of fancy whizbang electronic toys, I doubt any
of
them will actually ever make use of it! It's interesting, at least to
me.
I see a LOT of money being spent on toys for peace of mind, and then the
pilot never flies in the clouds, or even at night!
It's so easy for us to get caught up in much more complex installations
than
are actually required. Just because it's "affordable" doesn't mean you
should use it!
Bob's recent replies on the "Z-19 vs. Z-14" thread have validated my
thoughts (thanks, Bob). Keep it simple. Z-11, while simple,
lightweight,
and inexpensive, is more than sufficient 99.999% of the time for 99.999%
of
us pilots...even the ones flying IFR.
Keep the stress off the battery terminals, keep a healthy battery, and
proceed as usual... Enjoy looking at what's *outside* the plane, and
put
the $$$ into gas for your travels. Probably not a popular sentiment
among
all these electrophiles, but oh well.
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Devil's advocate
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
<dan@rvproject.com>
>
> Homebuilt fliers out there who are instrument rated and keep current
and
> really do fly IFR in your plane...here is a poll of sorts:
>
> - What % of your flying is IFR?
> - What % of your flying is in solid IMC without a VFR "out"?
>
> I consider myself more active than the average private pilot who flies
for
> fun. In the past 12 months, I flew 405 hours, 13.5 of which were
actual
> instrument...3% of my flying. Approximately 3 of those hours were in
solid
> IMC with no VFR "out." That's less than 1% of my flying. Zero hours
IFR
at
> night in the past year.
>
> Has anybody out there ever actually used a standby alternator in IMC?
>
> How about in VMC...has anybody had a primary alternator fail, and then
flew
> multiple legs home (more than just a local hop, i.e. a real cross
country
> trip) using the standby alternator?
>
> Just curious.
>
> do not archive
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Denso Alternator's with built in regulator |
0.48 HTTP_ESCAPED_HOST URI": Uses@-escapes.inside.a.URL's.hostname
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
BTW: The 40 amp Niagara alternator will shut down if you pull the IGN wire power
even after it is running in normal conditions. However this is not a "field
wire" but is a control to the voltage regulators IC, which controls the field
driver transistor , which controls the field. VR is OV protected by the IC. The
transistor is somewhat protected by the IC from overload. The only way for
an OV to occur is a rare transistor short. If this did occure the IGN wire would
not be effective, in theory.
Ray:
There are many Denso part #'s available. The small frame, which covers the 35-55
amp range. The 60amp and higher are physically larger, but still fit in a RV.
The small alternators tend to have industrial applications like fork lifts and
tractors. All the car applications for small Denso alternators has gone away
since cars need more electrical power today. One example of a typical small
Denso alternator in a car application was found in 1987 Suzuki Side-kick / Samurai.
You will have better luck finding the large alternators in the autopart
stores (Camary is one model I think is a good application).
The typical new small Denso's are not going to be found in an auto part store because
they are used mostly now in industrial applications, but you might find
a new Suzuki Denso alternator.
Here is a Rocket builder with info for a do-it-yourself Denso installation. It
is a (Suzuki) Denso 55 amp, with two mount flanges:
http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/alternator.htm
For the 40 amp you can check the bigger autoelectric supply houses who stock all
kinds of alternators for all applications and not just cars. Also they often
have sales and offer better prices. I have seen a 40-amp racing Denso for as
little as $89, typ $140. The "racing" part as they call it is a universal 40 amp
alternator with a 2. 9 pulley. Most 40 amp Denso have 2.5 pulleys. The difference
are usually small , involving where the B-lead is (side or back) and the
shape of the connector plug for the IGN and L (low volt light).
You can shop around and get an alternator alone for $85-$180, typical $140, new.
By the time you get all the brackets, nuts and bolts and connector you have
a lot of time and effort into it. The Niagara kit is bolt on deal, all parts included.
You can check AutoZone or Peep Boys, but I would not buy a rebuilt. The
advantage is they do offer lifetime warranties. However the use in an airplane
is a little issue you may get a foul for warranty.
Also check the RV list, there is a lot of info there.
I would recommend you look at Niagara airparts http://www.niagara airparts.com/
I dont think Niagara has a 80 amp. I can recommend their 40 amp kit as a fair
deal. Everything you need for $225, includes a new Denso (not rebuilt) and all
the parts to install and wire.
Check your final electrical load. No doubt with the RV-10 you are going to have
full lights: Nav, Strobe, dual landing, panel, and cockpit. Also no doubt you
are going to have a large (electric) panel. I would not recommend running any
alternator continuously more than 75% of its rated amps, 50% even better. However
the 40 amp really can put out 50 amps at higher RPMs per the technical data,
but I would not push it more than 30 amps since they are rated at 40 amps.
Also the Denso VR has an overload protection and does sense temp in the VR. If
VR temp is to high it will shut down. It is best not to try checking it's ability
to keep from overloading by not overloading it. I think a 55amp-60 amp would
be better for you in a RV-10 if you are going to have full lights and panel.
The key to a happy alternator is a cool alternator. keep the % load down and also
think about a blast tube on the back, not a bad idea.
Also I would avoid rebuilt units because there are new units available for a good
price if you know where to look. There are are aftermarket and Denso parts,
get the new Denso to assure you have all denso parts.
Cheers George
Subject: Denso Alternator's with built in regulator and field input.
I like the Denso Alternator unit that Aerosport Power sells.
They have a 40Amp and an 80 Amp unit. Does anyone know the actual part
numbers for these units and if there are other Amp version with these
similar features and specs?
Also if one of these were purchased at your local Auto Part
dealer, is there anything that needs to be done with them to be able to
be mounted and used on a Lycoming in an RV?
Thank You
Ray Doerr
RV-10
40250
---------------------------------
Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out!
Message 11
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| Subject: | 40amp Denso Aerosport Alternator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
> The 40 amps Denso is great and highly recommend it. No doubt similar to
> the one niagarairparts.com sells. E-mail the part number to me and I can
> get you detailed info. All the modern Denso have an IC chip voltage
> regulator (VR) that controls voltage and protects against over voltage
> (OV). You have choices:
>
>
> 1) Use the alternator with internal VR as per the installation instruction
> (if you dont have them see niagaraairparts.com).
George, excellent post. There must be at least 500 messages on this list
talking about overvoltage and alternators. One question that remains
unanswered is this: If an alternator runs away voltage wise, but is still
connected to the battery, how many amps would the battery draw at the point
when the voltage is harmfully high? Isn't there some inherent protection in
having a circuit breaker in the main alternator output line? For example, I
have a 50 amp breaker on my 40 amp alternator.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 624 hours
Maple Grove, MN
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Clarification of Stuck transmit lite on microair |
760
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigpond.com>
Rick
I resisted the temptation to jump in when I read your first post yesterday,
as I thought you might have already received a solution by then. However, I
would first check that the switch in the allen grip is in fact a 'momentary
action' pushbutton. Those switches are also available in a 'toggle
on/toggle off' variety and one of the latter would leave your radio keyed in
transmit until the button is pushed the second time. I recall that ray
allen sells both types.
Hope this helps
Bil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Clarification of Stuck transmit lite on
microair 760
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson"
> <rickf@cableone.net>
>
>
> Just to clarify that we're both talking apples to apples:
> 1) Does the fact that it only appears to stick in transmit (only
> indication is red light stays on) when the mic jack is plugged in mean
> something other than the transmit button is sticky?
>
> 2) The button itself does not appear to be sticking, in a mechanical
> sense
> at least. Could it be sticking electrically and not mechanically?
>
> 3) Also, it is not a hand held button, it is on the Ray Allen stick
> grip.
> Does that matter?
>
> 4) Should I just buy a new stick grip and not mess with it or could it
> be
> something in the Microair?
>
> Thanks in advance for any clarification and/or advice.
> Rick
>
>>>Hi Bob,
>>>I'm trying to trouble shoot a problem with the Microair 760
>>>transeiver. With the microphone plugged into the jack, pushing the PTT
>>>button (ray allen stick grip) causes the red (transmit) lite on the
>>>transeiver to stay on after the button is released. Only when I pull out
>>>the mic does it go off. With the mic out, the red lite comes on when the
>>>PTT is pushed and goes out, as it should, when the PTT is released. Do
>>>you have any idea what might be wrong.
>>
>> Sounds like something sticking in the mic's PTT
>> mechanism. This is a VERY common problem with
>> hand held microphones.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Selective Radio Reception |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Howdy listers-
Odd problem here- In communicating with dozens of other aircraft in the last
year and a half, all report hearing me loud and clear, and I receive most of
their transmissions just fine whether they are in the pattern with me or 50
miles away.
But there are TWO aircraft out of all of them that I can just barely hear-
one (another RV) is broken and staticky, and another (a rental Cherokee where
I'm based) I can't hear at all, just a slight change in background noise when
they are transmitting. These two aircraft report they can hear me fine.
Distance between and relative postion or orientation do not change this behavior.
Other a/c and unicom report hearing both of us fine as well. My radio is
Microair 760, bent whip bottom of fuse, and it doesn't matter whether I'm plugged
direct to the radio or through a Softcomm portable intercom when I've got a
co-pilot.
Any ideas?
Signed- Selective Reception in Columbia
(Mark Phillips)
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Clarification of Stuck transmit lite |
on microair 760
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
on microair 760
Is there any chance that RF is getting into the PTT circuitry and causing
it to latch on? Have you checked the integrity of the coax, the antenna
SWR, and made sure your microphone shielding is correct? I've seen this
with higher power transmitters but not on something this small.
Dave Morris
At 11:43 AM 6/11/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
>
>
>Just to clarify that we're both talking apples to apples:
>1) Does the fact that it only appears to stick in transmit (only
>indication is red light stays on) when the mic jack is plugged in mean
>something other than the transmit button is sticky?
>
>2) The button itself does not appear to be sticking, in a mechanical sense
>at least. Could it be sticking electrically and not mechanically?
>
>3) Also, it is not a hand held button, it is on the Ray Allen stick grip.
>Does that matter?
>
>4) Should I just buy a new stick grip and not mess with it or could it be
>something in the Microair?
>
>Thanks in advance for any clarification and/or advice.
>Rick
>
> >>Hi Bob,
> >>I'm trying to trouble shoot a problem with the Microair 760
> >>transeiver. With the microphone plugged into the jack, pushing the PTT
> >>button (ray allen stick grip) causes the red (transmit) lite on the
> >>transeiver to stay on after the button is released. Only when I pull out
> >>the mic does it go off. With the mic out, the red lite comes on when the
> >>PTT is pushed and goes out, as it should, when the PTT is released. Do
> >>you have any idea what might be wrong.
> >
> > Sounds like something sticking in the mic's PTT
> > mechanism. This is a VERY common problem with
> > hand held microphones.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | 2 1/4 Mitchell oil temp |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
I have a 2 1/4" Mitchell mechanical oil temp gauge. I need to remove the sender
wire, but it doesn't seem obvious how to accomplish this. Anyone have one of
these that can give me a hint. Of course, this is the one instruction sheet that
didn't come with the plane from the builder.
Ken
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