---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/24/05: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:33 AM - Help - low voltage (BobsV35B@aol.com) 2. 05:08 AM - Re: Help - low voltage (OldBob Siegfried) 3. 06:44 AM - Re: Aux Batter Management Module (Jim Stone) 4. 07:16 AM - Batteries in series and parallel (Mark & Lisa) 5. 08:00 AM - Firewall penetration (Eric Henson) 6. 08:01 AM - Re: Batteries in series and parallel (BobsV35B@aol.com) 7. 08:13 AM - Re: Batteries in series and parallel (Dj Merrill) 8. 08:56 AM - Re: Firewall penetration (Ken) 9. 10:08 AM - Re: Firewall penetration (Dave Morris) 10. 10:51 AM - Re: Firewall penetration (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 11:42 AM - Re: Firewall penetration (Ken) 12. 02:08 PM - Re: Firewall penetration (Paul Wilson) 13. 03:39 PM - Re: Firewall penetration (Matt Prather) 14. 05:24 PM - Electronic-HSI? () 15. 07:04 PM - Re: Electronic-HSI? (Chuck Jensen) 16. 08:26 PM - Re: Aux Batter Management Module (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:26 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Help - low voltage --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com Good Morning Mike and Matt, I recently had a problem with varying low voltage on a J35 Bonanza. It had recently had a new and larger engine installed along with a brand new, from the Continental factory, Alternator and a new Zeftronics solid state voltage regulator. The airplane was also equipped with an Electronics International volt/ammeter. During the test flying, the alternator popped off the bus several times. Each time various wires were replaced and contacts cleaned. The voltmeter was showing a nice steady 14.2 to 14.4 all of this time. We suspected a high voltage rejection and, after consultation with my alternator guru and the Zeftronics folks, sent the Zeftronics unit back for evaluation. We also had the alternator bench checked by a competent shop. None of those efforts bore any fruit. My local alternator guru told me he had found faulty alternator rotors in the past which had not shown up during normal testing, but which would cause over voltage trips on occasion. After replacing the rotor with a new one, all problems ceased and the alternator worked fine for the rest of the break in period. However, after about fifteen hours time was put on the installation, the voltage started to vary occasionally. It would show 14.2 to 14.4 most of the time in cruise, but would occasionally drop down to 13.0 or even as low as 12.4 or so. Since we had originally changed almost every wire, circuit breaker and switch in the charging control circuit while trying to fix the original problem, I figured I had messed something else up in the circuit. I have installed many other Electronics International units and have always found them to be very reliable. I did not suspicion a problem there at all. Nevertheless I did fasten a few wires at various points around the system to facilitate voltage checks via a Fluke meter while in normal operations. I led those wires to a DB nine connector so that voltages could be easily checked in flight. I found that the voltages were generally steady, though set a bit lower than I would like. They were mostly around 13.6 with an occasional foray lower. That happened most often during a change in RPM. I even used another Fluke meter to check my old reliable one thinking there may be something wrong with the older unit. Both Fluke meters showed consistency within a hundredth of a volt. The problem was not a voltage problem, it was a failing EI indicator! I don't know if all of the problems we had with the new alternator somehow damaged the EI volt/ammeter or if it had been failing before the engine swap, but I sure was not expecting a failure there. It really pays to check our instrumentation when things don't want to add up! Happy Skies, Old Bob --- mprather <_mprather@spro.net_ (mailto:mprather@spro.net) > wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: mprather > <_mprather@spro.net_ (mailto:mprather@spro.net) > > > Hi Mike, > > What RPM (roughly) were you turning when you > witnessed the varying bus > voltage? The alternator can't keep rated output > until it gets to some > minimum RPM. > > Maybe your alternator has a failed diode? I think > that may drop its > output by about half (25A). I am sure that BandC > would be happy to test > it for you. It would probably be possible to have > it tested at a local > automotive store as well. > > Maybe the sense line to the regulator isn't getting > a good solid > connection to the bus. > > Good luck, and let us know what you find. > > > Regards, > > Matt- > VE N34RD, C150 N714BK > > > Mike & Lee Anne Wiebe wrote: > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike & > Lee Anne Wiebe" <_mwiebe@sympatico.ca_ (mailto:mwiebe@sympatico.ca) > > > > >Well folks, time to draw on the collective wisdom > of the masses.again.. > > > >Sorry, the info is sketchy so far, but I just got > home from the airport > >and had to vent somewhere. We changed out the > battery in our Sequoia > >Falco, figuring that after three years, the weak > starting must be some > >good old fashioned battery aging. Initial start > was very good, with > >high charging amperage (Bob, further to your > conversation with my dad > >about the battery, I'll confirm that we read > alternator amperage, not > >battery amperage), about 25 amps. The new battery, > an Oddessy P680, was > >stolen from our new project, and was a little run > down from various > >bench activities, so this seems OK. It settled > into a steady state draw > >of about 6 amps, which has always seemed > reasonable, given that we have > >one side electronic ignition, and a full panel of > EI electronic > >instrumentation. After one enroute stop, we > started for home near dusk. > > > > > >During operation with strobes, I noticed that the > backlights on much of > >the panel instrumentation was flickering. After a > little > >troubleshooting (I stress little - it was getting > dark, and this was an > >ELECTRICAL problem..so I landed quickly), I know > the following: > > > >System voltage seemed to vary between 14 and about > 11.5, based on load. > >Worst culprit appeared to be strobes. Even running > lights, and two big > >landing lights didn't cause the same voltage drop > as the strobes. So I > >suspect I'll take the strobes out of the equation > just to be sure. But > >it seems funny to me that with the engine running > strong that the > >voltage would vary very much at all! Through all > of this, the amperage > >draw seemed normal for the given load being called > for. Alternator is > >obviously putting something out, but I wonder about > consistency. At > >one point I turned on a bunch of stuff quickly, > just to create load, and > >the engine monitor reset - something it will do > when the starter inrush > >current draws the system down. I would have > thought that turning on a > >bunch of lights quickly would not have caused that > much of an effect, > >though I've never tried to do that before. > > > >System is a B&C 60A alternator and the > B&C/Knuckolls Voltage regulator. > >All my measuring was done on panel instrumentation, > which is an > >Electronics International UBG-16 graphic engine > monitor with amperage > >option. Before shutting down, I advanced the RPM > to test for headset > >whine. There is a slight whine that changes with > RPM, but its so very > >subtle that it may have been there forever and me > not notice it. > > > >So now I'm going to read my Aeroelectric Connection > for more advice. In > >the meantime, any knowledgeable opinions are > appreciated. As is any > >advice on how to isolate and troubleshoot the > problem, since it seems > >like Saturday is going to be a "fixing, not flying" > day, once again. > > > >Thx > >Mike ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:38 AM PST US From: OldBob Siegfried Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Help - low voltage --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: OldBob Siegfried Good Morning All, In my previous message, I messed up some of the story. I had problems with my spell checker and Yahoo when I tried to send it out. That resulted in some misalginment of what I was trying to say. When I mentioned the occasional forays of the voltage lower, that should have been when being checked by the EI unit. The 13.6 with the Fluke meters was always rock steady. Poor proofreading on my part. Sorry about that. Happy Skies, Old bob --- BobsV35B@aol.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > BobsV35B@aol.com > > Good Morning Mike and Matt, > > I recently had a problem with varying low voltage on > a J35 Bonanza. > > It had recently had a new and larger engine > installed along with a brand > new, from the Continental factory, Alternator and a > new Zeftronics solid state > voltage regulator. The airplane was also equipped > with an Electronics > International volt/ammeter. > > During the test flying, the alternator popped off > the bus several times. > Each time various wires were replaced and contacts > cleaned. The voltmeter was > showing a nice steady 14.2 to 14.4 all of this time. > We suspected a high > voltage rejection and, after consultation with my > alternator guru and the > Zeftronics folks, sent the Zeftronics unit back for > evaluation. We also had the > alternator bench checked by a competent shop. > > None of those efforts bore any fruit. My local > alternator guru told me he > had found faulty alternator rotors in the past which > had not shown up during > normal testing, but which would cause over voltage > trips on occasion. After > replacing the rotor with a new one, all problems > ceased and the alternator > worked fine for the rest of the break in period. > > However, after about fifteen hours time was put on > the installation, the > voltage started to vary occasionally. It would show > 14.2 to 14.4 most of the > time in cruise, but would occasionally drop down to > 13.0 or even as low as 12.4 > or so. Since we had originally changed almost every > wire, circuit breaker > and switch in the charging control circuit while > trying to fix the original > problem, I figured I had messed something else up in > the circuit. > > I have installed many other Electronics > International units and have always > found them to be very reliable. I did not suspicion > a problem there at all. > Nevertheless I did fasten a few wires at various > points around the system to > facilitate voltage checks via a Fluke meter while > in normal operations. I > led those wires to a DB nine connector so that > voltages could be easily checked > in flight. I found that the voltages were > generally steady, though set a > bit lower than I would like. They were mostly > around 13.6 with an occasional > foray lower. That happened most often during a > change in RPM. I even used > another Fluke meter to check my old reliable one > thinking there may be something > wrong with the older unit. Both Fluke meters > showed consistency within a > hundredth of a volt. > > The problem was not a voltage problem, it was a > failing EI indicator! > > I don't know if all of the problems we had with the > new alternator somehow > damaged the EI volt/ammeter or if it had been > failing before the engine swap, > but I sure was not expecting a failure there. > > It really pays to check our instrumentation when > things don't want to add up! > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > > --- mprather <_mprather@spro.net_ > (mailto:mprather@spro.net) > wrote: > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: mprather > > <_mprather@spro.net_ (mailto:mprather@spro.net) > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > What RPM (roughly) were you turning when you > > witnessed the varying bus > > voltage? The alternator can't keep rated output > > until it gets to some > > minimum RPM. > > > > Maybe your alternator has a failed diode? I think > > that may drop its > > output by about half (25A). I am sure that BandC > > would be happy to test > > it for you. It would probably be possible to > have > > it tested at a local > > automotive store as well. > > > > Maybe the sense line to the regulator isn't > getting > > a good solid > > connection to the bus. > > > > Good luck, and let us know what you find. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Matt- > > VE N34RD, C150 N714BK > > > > > > Mike & Lee Anne Wiebe wrote: > > > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike & > > Lee Anne Wiebe" <_mwiebe@sympatico.ca_ > (mailto:mwiebe@sympatico.ca) > > > > > > >Well folks, time to draw on the collective wisdom > > of the masses.again.. > > > > > >Sorry, the info is sketchy so far, but I just > got > > home from the airport > > >and had to vent somewhere. We changed out the > > battery in our Sequoia > > >Falco, figuring that after three years, the weak > > starting must be some > > >good old fashioned battery aging. Initial start > > was very good, with > > >high charging amperage (Bob, further to your > > conversation with my dad > > >about the battery, I'll confirm that we read > > alternator amperage, not > > >battery amperage), about 25 amps. The new > battery, > > an Oddessy P680, was > > >stolen from our new project, and was a little run > > down from various > > >bench activities, so this seems OK. It settled > > into a steady state draw > > >of about 6 amps, which has always seemed > > reasonable, given that we have > > >one side electronic ignition, and a full panel > of > > EI electronic > > >instrumentation. After one enroute stop, we > > started for home near dusk. > > > > > > > > >During operation with strobes, I noticed that > the > > backlights on much of > > >the panel instrumentation was flickering. After > a > > little > > >troubleshooting (I stress little - it was > getting > > dark, and this was an > > >ELECTRICAL problem..so I landed quickly), I know > > the following: > > > > > >System voltage seemed to vary between 14 and > about > > 11.5, based on load. > > >Worst culprit appeared to be strobes. Even > running > > lights, and two big > > >landing lights didn't cause the same voltage > drop > > as the strobes. So I > > >suspect I'll take the strobes out of the equation > > just to be sure. But > > >it seems funny to me that with the engine > running > > strong that the > > >voltage would vary very much at all! Through > all > > of this, the amperage > > >draw seemed normal for the given load being > called > > for. Alternator is > > >obviously putting something out, but I wonder > about > > consistency. At > > >one point I turned on a bunch of stuff quickly, > > just to create load, and > === message truncated === ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:49 AM PST US From: "Jim Stone" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aux Batter Management Module --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" Twice the range to get to destination or nearest suitable. I have an inverted oil line on my Vac pad. I want to swap out 1 battery each annual. Didn't like the SD-8 running all the time and the additional wiring and voltage regulator requirement. Like having a few extra pounds aft in the Harmon Rocket. So what do you think, do I need one of these rascals? Thanks, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aux Batter Management Module > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > > At 01:53 PM 6/22/2005 -0400, you wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" >> >> >>Hi Guys, >>I bought the Low Voltage Warning and Auxiliary Battery Management Module >>(ABMM) because I have two batteries installed (Odyssey 680s). >>After reading the instruction manual it seems I may not need it. >>My setup is: Harmon Rocket, 1mag, 1 electronic ignition (electroair), B&C >>40 amp alt with voltage regulator and low voltage warning light (LR3c). >>I'm thinking that since I don't have a stby alternator or electrically >>dependent engine, I probably don't need a unit that is designed to shut >>the aux battery down in the event of a primary alternator >>failure. Wouldn't it be just fine to continue on to destination or >>nearest suitable field as appropriate with both batteries on, while >>monitoring my volt meter? > > if you don't have an electrically dependent engine, why > two batteries? > > Bob . . . > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:51 AM PST US From: "Mark & Lisa" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Batteries in series and parallel --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark & Lisa" Ok Listers, I guess the cat's out of the bag: DeltaHawk Engines has announced they can't find a vendor to supply a 12V starter that can spin their engine fast enough for engine start. I've been busily preparing for a 14V electrical system (including the purchase of several components) and have to figure a way to: a) Power a 24V starter from a pair of 12V batteries, or b) Convert to a 28V system and power my 12V accessories using DC to DC converters. Option "a" is my 1st instinct. I'd have to figure out a way to run two batteries in parallel with a series connection for the just the starter, and without imposing procedural restrictions. For example, "Must have battery power switch off for start or system damage will result" is a bad idea as far as I'm concerned. I should be able to wire this system so that when the starter is engaged, power is removed from the rest of the system. My concern then is how do I protect my 12V accessories from a stuck relay/contactor? A benefit of this approach is that I can drop the need for a second alternator. I'd planned on two alternators with one battery; for me, one alternator with two batteries does the same thing. (To forestall comments on this view; my philosophy is to land at the nearest suitable airfield when ANY engine-driven electrical power source fails--even if another engine-driven power source is available. IMHO, backups are a means to get you on the ground safely, as soon as practicality permits; getting to the destination is a distant second priority.) Anybody have access to a schematic that might show how this can be done? Option "b" is less attractive to me due to added system complexity (option "a" adds complexity only to the starting system, shouldn't be a concern inflight). I'll either need one large DC-to-DC converter to power all 12V accessories (single point of failure), or I'll need individual DC-to-DC converters for each accessory. Additionlly, my understanding is that these converters aren't 100% efficient, meaning I'll add to my current requirements. On the other hand, this option appears, on its face, somehow safer; I can't accidently fry the entire system with a procedural error or with a malfunctioning relay/contactor. Thoughts? Mark & Lisa Sletten Legacy FG N828LM http://www.legacyfgbuilder.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:00:21 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Firewall penetration From: "Eric Henson" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Henson" In regards to the Avcorp tubeseal. $75.00 for a firewall penetration "kit", for a single 1" penetration? Are they TSO'd? Big ole hairy "gimme a break" on that one. Nice product, but horribly over priced IMHO I've tried to find the "towel rack" mentioned in the past, but can't seem to locate one. Still looking. Eric > These are very useful if you don't want your firewall to be > a firewall anymore but simply a temporary barrier between > you and smelly things going on up front. > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:06 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Batteries in series and parallel --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com Good Morning Mark, For What It Is Worth, back when I was flying LaBelle Caravelle, there was a big handle immediately to my left and just below the side cockpit window which switched the batteries from the parallel mode into a series arrangement to provide sufficient power to start the engines. I do not recall how the rest of the electrical system was set up as I am sure we did have power to several normal circuits during the engine start. Nevertheless, that manual switching was used for the start phase. I would imagine it would be fairly easy to do something similar for your starting needs. Two 12 volt batteries in series for start with twelve volts being picked off one or both to power systems that need power during the start. When they are switched back to parallel, they would charge as would any parallel battery setup. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Airpark LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 In a message dated 6/24/2005 9:19:23 A.M. Central Standard Time, marknlisa@hometel.com writes: a) Power a 24V starter from a pair of 12V batteries, or b) Convert to a 28V system and power my 12V accessories using DC to DC converters. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:04 AM PST US From: Dj Merrill Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Batteries in series and parallel --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill Mark & Lisa wrote: > Option "a" is my 1st instinct. I'd have to figure out a way to run two > batteries in parallel with a series connection for the just the starter, and > without imposing procedural restrictions. For example, "Must have battery > power switch off for start or system damage will result" is a bad idea as > far as I'm concerned. I should be able to wire this system so that when the > starter is engaged, power is removed from the rest of the system. My > concern then is how do I protect my 12V accessories from a stuck > relay/contactor? A benefit of this approach is that I can drop the need for Just a random thought - if you do not mind dedicating one battery for just the starter, you could have just a single battery in-line with your starter contactor (or whatever device you choose to do this function), so when you engage the contactor, you get the 12v from the "regular" battery and feed it in series with the "starter" battery for 28v. Everything else only gets the 12v from the "regular" battery. I'm sure there is a more elegant way to do this, and perhaps be able to use the second battery as an emergency backup for the first, but this thought just ran across my mind so I figured I would share it. -Dj -- Dj Merrill Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 "TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation" ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:44 AM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Firewall penetration --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken Maybe, maybe not so much if you only need one and it includes everything. cdn$30+ for stainless towel rack US$12. for a chunk of firesleeve plus shipping cdn$28. for itumescent caulk Thats over US$55. plus gas and time to find and collect it, not to mention a couple of bolts and a gear clamp I found the 1.25" stainless grab bar (towel rack) from Home Hardware. It protrudes out a bit more than I'd like. I think they had a 1" one for a bit cheaper. If I did it again I'd just use a plain steel towel rack from Home Depot. Ken ;) Eric Henson wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Henson" > >In regards to the Avcorp tubeseal. $75.00 for a firewall penetration "kit", for a single 1" penetration? Are they TSO'd? Big ole hairy "gimme a break" on that one. Nice product, but horribly over priced IMHO > >I've tried to find the "towel rack" mentioned in the past, but can't seem to locate one. Still looking. > >Eric > > > > >> These are very useful if you don't want your firewall to be >> a firewall anymore but simply a temporary barrier between >> you and smelly things going on up front. >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:53 AM PST US From: Dave Morris Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Firewall penetration --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris Home Depot also has the fireproof caulk for a whole lot less than $28. Dave Morris At 10:57 AM 6/24/2005, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken > >Maybe, maybe not so much if you only need one and it includes everything. >cdn$30+ for stainless towel rack >US$12. for a chunk of firesleeve plus shipping >cdn$28. for itumescent caulk >Thats over US$55. plus gas and time to find and collect it, not to >mention a couple of bolts and a gear clamp > >I found the 1.25" stainless grab bar (towel rack) from Home Hardware. >It protrudes out a bit more than I'd like. I think they had a 1" one for >a bit cheaper. If I did it again I'd just use a plain steel towel rack >from Home Depot. > >Ken ;) > >Eric Henson wrote: > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Henson" > > > > >In regards to the Avcorp tubeseal. $75.00 for a firewall penetration > "kit", for a single 1" penetration? Are they TSO'd? Big ole hairy "gimme > a break" on that one. Nice product, but horribly over priced IMHO > > > >I've tried to find the "towel rack" mentioned in the past, but can't > seem to locate one. Still looking. > > > >Eric > > > > > > > > > >> These are very useful if you don't want your firewall to be > >> a firewall anymore but simply a temporary barrier between > >> you and smelly things going on up front. > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:51:50 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Firewall penetration --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > >I found the 1.25" stainless grab bar (towel rack) from Home Hardware. > >It protrudes out a bit more than I'd like. I think they had a 1" one for > >a bit cheaper. If I did it again I'd just use a plain steel towel rack > >from Home Depot. > > > > > > > > > > > >In regards to the Avcorp tubeseal. $75.00 for a firewall penetration > > "kit", for a single 1" penetration? Are they TSO'd? Big ole hairy "gimme > > a break" on that one. Nice product, but horribly over priced IMHO If you have stainless materials and welding capabilities in your shop, perhaps $75.00 is a poor return on investment of your $time$. We looked into fabricating and supplying these kits at the AeroElectric Connection too . . . it's not a trivial task . . . and it would not have been substantially less expensive . . . especially for the right angle versions. > > >I've tried to find the "towel rack" mentioned in the past, but can't > > seem to locate one. Still looking. When you finally arrive at an attractive solution, consider the TOTAL $time$ expended to achieve the goal and then make a judgement as to how your project would have progressed had you elected to trade $75.00 - $xx.xx (savings) for the $time$ that might have advanced your progress in other ways. It wasn't until my job was to compare $total$ cost to bring a product to market and discovered that many "dollar saving" philosophies of the past were in fact, poor use of resources. The $savings$/time value is wages you paid yourself to NOT be doing other things on your airplane. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:13 AM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Firewall penetration --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken Unfortunately not in Canada. I've looked in many of their strores. Here they sell a fire rated silicone caulk. It is simply silicone caulk that has a fire rating and it acts exactly like any other silicone caulk when I heat it up. Very different and very poor compared to the itumescent stuff which is not silicone. I believe I posted part number a year or so ago. Ken Dave Morris wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris > >Home Depot also has the fireproof caulk for a whole lot less than $28. > >Dave Morris > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:35 PM PST US From: Paul Wilson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Firewall penetration --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Wilson Try a place that sells stoves Paul ======= At 12:43 PM 6/24/2005, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken > >Unfortunately not in Canada. I've looked in many of their strores. >Here they sell a fire rated silicone caulk. It is simply silicone caulk >that has a fire rating and it acts exactly like any other silicone caulk >when I heat it up. Very different and very poor compared to the >itumescent stuff which is not silicone. I believe I posted part number a >year or so ago. >Ken > >Dave Morris wrote: > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris > > > >Home Depot also has the fireproof caulk for a whole lot less than $28. > > > >Dave Morris > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:39:56 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Firewall penetration From: "Matt Prather" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" Hi Eric, Go to http://www.homedepot.com, and enter "Stainless Steel Grab" in the keyword search at the top right of the screen. It will bring up a list of various stainless grab bars with nice welded flanges in the 15$-50$ range. Regards, Matt- > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Henson" > > > In regards to the Avcorp tubeseal. $75.00 for a firewall penetration > "kit", for a single 1" penetration? Are they TSO'd? Big ole hairy "gimme > a break" on that one. Nice product, but horribly over priced IMHO > > I've tried to find the "towel rack" mentioned in the past, but can't > seem to locate one. Still looking. > > Eric > > >> These are very useful if you don't want your firewall to be >> a firewall anymore but simply a temporary barrier between >> you and smelly things going on up front. >> > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:52 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electronic-HSI? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: I'm in the final stages of laying out the panel for a kitbuilt aircraft. I'd like to go with an elctronic horizontal situation indicator. Then King KI-825 and Sandel SN3500 are just too ex$pensive! But, either the Blue Mountain EFIS Lite-G3 or the Grand Rapids EFIS Horizon Series 1 could work. Does anyone have any first hand experience wiring up and using either of these units? PLEASE help me with some feedback! Paul Siegel ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:09 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Electronic-HSI? From: "Chuck Jensen" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" Paul, I have a dual GRT EFIS and have no criticism of it at all. I fly IFR with it and it has been rock-solid since initial use 100+ hours ago (though I have a Mid-Continent backup AI just in case on the all electric panel). The resolution of the GRT HSI is not dazzling, but it is accurate and easy to use. GRT has a reputation of being a solid company that is easy to deal with. BMs unit may be the equal of the GRT, but I'm not sure the company is? I hear/see many more favorable things about GRT than BM, but everyone's results may vary. You may want to monitor GRT_EFIS@yahoogroups.com to catch a flavor of some the users comments and questions. In short, there is probably nothing wrong with the BM Lite, but you can't go wrong with the GRT HS 1 series. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of psiegel@fuse.net Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electronic-HSI? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: I'm in the final stages of laying out the panel for a kitbuilt aircraft. I'd like to go with an elctronic horizontal situation indicator. Then King KI-825 and Sandel SN3500 are just too ex$pensive! But, either the Blue Mountain EFIS Lite-G3 or the Grand Rapids EFIS Horizon Series 1 could work. Does anyone have any first hand experience wiring up and using either of these units? PLEASE help me with some feedback! Paul Siegel ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:48 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aux Batter Management Module --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 09:42 AM 6/24/2005 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" > >Twice the range to get to destination or nearest suitable. >I have an inverted oil line on my Vac pad. >I want to swap out 1 battery each annual. >Didn't like the SD-8 running all the time and the additional wiring and >voltage regulator requirement. >Like having a few extra pounds aft in the Harmon Rocket. >So what do you think, do I need one of these rascals? No Bob . . .