Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:21 AM - Fadec installation, what architecture? (Aart van't Veld)
2. 05:55 AM - Re: Batteries in series and parallel (Mark & Lisa)
3. 09:00 AM - Most current Z13 with B&C set up ? (Bill Schlatterer)
4. 09:21 AM - Re: Z-22 relay question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 09:55 AM - Re: Most current Z13 with B&C set up ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 02:29 PM - Microair 760 radio, transmission problems 118 to 123 MHz. (Shay King)
7. 03:04 PM - Re: Microair 760 radio, transmission (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 03:45 PM - Re: Firewall penetration (big picture) ()
9. 04:42 PM - Re: strobe noise in music input (Robert Dickson)
10. 05:09 PM - Re: Firewall penetration (big picture) (Eric M. Jones)
11. 05:49 PM - Re: strobe noise in music input (John Schroeder)
12. 06:35 PM - Re: strobe noise in music input (Robert Dickson)
13. 07:40 PM - Re: strobe noise in music input (John Schroeder)
14. 10:19 PM - Re: Z-22 relay question (Mdharfst@cs.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Fadec installation, what architecture? |
2.31 DATE_IN_FUTURE_24_48 Date: is 24 to 48 hours after Received: date
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Aart van't Veld" <avtveld@tiscali.nl>
I would really appreciate feedback from you guys on the wiring/architecture
of my Fadec system. The basics of my installation and wiring situation are:
- All electric airplane
- Flying an experimental in Europe. Therefore no IFR/IMC, no night VFR.
- 60A B&C main alternator
- One main battery(Odyssey PC680)
- One small backup battery, comes with the Fadec installation and is
dedicated to power the backup Fadec #2 bus only (Aerosance states that it is
more than enough for one hour of powering the Fadec system. The Fadec system
draws 5,5 amps)
- One SD8 backup alternator
The Fadec system has two ECU's / busses for full redundancy. I will have the
Fadec #1 bus powered by the main power distribution bus and the Fadec #2 bus
powered by the Ebus. The basic installation that I have in mind now is using
the straightforward Z11 diagram, but adding a backup system that will only
power the Ebus (and back up Fadec #2 bus). This backup system will off
course have the Fadec battery but I would also like to add a SD8 alternator.
The Aerosance wiring diagram http://www.fadec.com/pdfs/WD12556G.PDF shows
this backup alternator/backup battery concept too. They complete this backup
system by adding a battery contactor and an alt/bat switch.
Does this all make sense to you or am I overdoing the redundancy issue here
and by adding the SD8 making the system more complex than necessary? Is
there another architecture that is better suited for my profile?
Thanks for your input,
Aart van't Veld
<http://websites.expercraft.com/PHVII> http://websites.expercraft.com/PHVII
Message 2
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| Subject: | RE: Batteries in series and parallel |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark & Lisa" <marknlisa@hometel.com>
Fellow Listers,
Wow! Almost an entire Digest devoted to just my question. As always I'm
humbled and in awe of the members of this list who give so freely of their
time and knowledge. Individual replies below:
_____________________________________
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
>
> Hi Mark ...
> Just wanted to relate to you what my Ford tractor mechanic did to
> modify my
> tractor and this mod was acceptable practice.
Thanks Jerry!
________________________________
> Mark,
>
> Here a schematic to do the job in the standard series-parallel way:
>
> http://www.periheliondesign.com/downloads/12-24V_System.pdf
>
Excellent Eric, just what I was looking for, thank you!
>
> However, if it were my bird I would question the idea that Deltahawk can't
> do the job at 12V. Here's why--
>
> The voltage of a starting system in not as important as the
> system's ability
> to delivery current to the starter. This is also a function of the
> resistance of the battery and connections, etc. An Ultracapacitor in
> parallel with the battery and close to the starter motor is now often used
> to start diesel engines. These go for $20/Farad (12V) and the cost is in
> freefall. I'd try one of these on the Deltahawk.
I've passed your suggestions on to DeltaHawk. Hopefully this approach will
work out as the best possible solution. This would be my 1st choice if it's
possible.
The depth of experience on this list is amazing. Again, thanks Eric!
_____________________________________
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls,
> III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
> I'll offer the following suggestion:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Starter/24V_Starter_14V_System.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
It never ceases to amaze me how fast you can cook this stuff up Bob. My
first post to this question was just a couple of days ago and already you've
published what appears to my (uneducated) eyes as a carefully thought out
schematic to perfectly fit my needs. I honestly thought someone might have
seen a schematic similar to what I needed and just point me in the right
direction. I certainly didn't expect that not one, but two individuals
would take their own time to draw up something from scratch!
I know I'm not the only one who has benefitted from this list, but it's
always refreshing when one benefits *personally* from others' good will.
The value of this list continues to exceed my expectations.
Thank you, one and all!
Mark & Lisa Sletten
Legacy FG N828LM
http://www.legacyfgbuilder.com
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 3
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| Subject: | Most current Z13 with B&C set up ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
Help anyone for a bookmark, please. Probably not looking in the right place
but my old Z13 diagram calls for 2AWG fat wire and the newest one that I can
find on the Connection calls for 4AWG which I would prefer but that diagram
does not include the B&C alt/reg set up. Since I am using the B&C reg &
40amp alt with SD8 standby I was a little confused on the wire size
difference.
Where can I find a most current Z13 diagram with the B&C set up? Prefer PDF
if possible.
Thanks Bill S
7a Ark
fuse/panel
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Z-22 relay question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 08:56 AM 6/25/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mdharfst@cs.com
>
>Listers
>I have a problem I need advice on. My electrical system is from an older
>version of Bob's drawings but fits the current Z-11 drawing pretty closely
>with a Z-22 substitution for the way I wire the starter run on relay. I
>need to replace the S704-1 relay which has gone bad. Can I use a standard
>starter contactor in place of the smaller lighter relay? It seems that
>the wiring logic should be the same regardless of whether the smaller or
>larger relay is used.
>Thanks in advance.
>Michael Harfst N9TZ 165 Hrs
Looking over Z-22, I see that I've stubbed my toe. In the
article on spike catcher diodes:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Starter/PM_Starter_w_RunOn_Relay.pdf
I alluded to the first issue of an AD against the ACS510
genere' of off-l-r-both-start key switches wherein the
FAA took note of EXTRAORDINARY energy dump from modern
light weight replacement starter solenoid/contactors.
See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf
Seems the coil de-energizing spike was eating up starter
control contacts in the switches (just like it did in
cars! . . . funny thing about that physics stuff . . .
same rules apply everywhere).
The first issue of the AD put a spike catcher diode in
the wrong place . . . but was modified some time later
to correct the error.
Then came along a new characteristic in modern, light-weight
replacement starters. Efforts to reduce starter push
button wear with an add-on starter contactor (a la Z-11
and B&C recommendations), we noted that the back-emf generated
during spin-down of a PM starter would cause a delayed retraction
of the starter's pinon gear when the push button was released.
We STILL didn't want to run full contactor coil current
through the panel control so a heavy-duty (30A) relay
was suggested and described in Z-22. However, making
the relay a "heavy duty" device did NOT alleviate the
need for spike suppression at the contacts. The heavy
duty relay was just as vulnerable to damage from
stored energy as the off-l-r-both-start key switch.
However, while concentrating on the run-on issue, I
overlooked the need for a spike catcher.
I've updated Z-22 and published it in the Page-Per-System
drawings at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Starter/PM_Starter_w_RunOn_Relay.pdf
Here's a good example of how the diode bridge rectifier
assembly can be used to good electrical and mechanical
advantage. I show two of the four didoes used to suppress
the spike out of the starter contactor -AND- the
relay coil. Further, the mechanical characteristics of
this part give us good places to bring pairs of wires
into the same terminal as tie points.
You COULD replace the S704 with a HEAVIER duty still
device like a starter contactor, but it's not necessary.
Try the NEW Z-22 and see what it does for you.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Most current Z13 with B&C set up ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 10:59 AM 6/26/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer"
><billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
>
>Help anyone for a bookmark, please. Probably not looking in the right place
>but my old Z13 diagram calls for 2AWG fat wire and the newest one that I can
>find on the Connection calls for 4AWG which I would prefer but that diagram
>does not include the B&C alt/reg set up. Since I am using the B&C reg &
>40amp alt with SD8 standby I was a little confused on the wire size
>difference.
>
>Where can I find a most current Z13 diagram with the B&C set up? Prefer PDF
>if possible.
The z-drawings are NOT intended to be recommendations for any
particular combination of parts or wires. One may substitute
a variety of starter, alternator and battery configurations
within a single architecture. Further, wire sizes may need
adjusting depending on circumstances. If your battery and
engine are in rather close proximity to each other (like
an RV with battery on firewall or under passenger seat)
then 4AWG wire suffices for fat wires.
If you have a canard-pusher composite where fatwires -AND-
wired grounds run the length of the airplane, then 2AWG
is indicated. Seaplanes run fatter wires yet.
You need to start a 3-ring notebook set of drawings
using pencil and pink-pearl eraser. Begin to craft
a set of page-per-system drawings that show one system
at a time on each sheet of paper.
You use Z-13 (or whatever) to set the overall distribution
and operating philosophy for your airplane but the
DETAILS as to which parts, and what wire sizes must
be individually crafted. You can use features from multiple
z-figures to select details for what you're going to
do with Z-13. For example, do your page-per-system drawing
for the alternator by referencing Z-14.
I trying to keep the latest configurations for a lot
of drawings posted at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/
You'll find both .pdf and AutoCAD .dwg files there
for your convenience as they become available.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Microair 760 radio, transmission problems 118 to 123 |
MHz.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shay King" <shaking@eircom.net>
Dear Bob,
I have a Microair 760 vhf radio in my Zenith 701. I'm using a Comant 121 antenna.
I receive perfectly on all frequencies, but when transmitting on the lower vhf
frequencies my transmissions are unreadable. From 118 MHz.to 122 MHz, my transmissions
are totally unreadable. At 123 MHz just understandable, and from 124
MHz upwards all perfect except for a slight deterioration between 127 to 129
Mhz [ strength 4].
Basically all transmissions above 124 MHz are good or acceptable.
Do you have any idea what might be causing this problem?
Regards,
Shay King.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Microair 760 radio, transmission |
problems 118 to 123 MHz.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
problems 118 to 123 MHz.
At 10:27 PM 6/26/2005 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shay King" <shaking@eircom.net>
>
>Dear Bob,
>
>I have a Microair 760 vhf radio in my Zenith 701. I'm using a Comant 121
>antenna.
>
>I receive perfectly on all frequencies, but when transmitting on the lower
>vhf frequencies my transmissions are unreadable. From 118 MHz.to 122 MHz,
>my transmissions are totally unreadable. At 123 MHz just understandable,
>and from 124 MHz upwards all perfect except for a slight deterioration
>between 127 to 129 Mhz [ strength 4].
>
>Basically all transmissions above 124 MHz are good or acceptable.
>
>Do you have any idea what might be causing this problem?
Start by putting a dummy load resistor on the back
of your radio. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/DummyLoad.jpg
Have someone in another airplane or with a hand-held
just a few fee away listen to the quality of your
transmissions with the dummy load in place. It's best
if they wear headphones.
If the transmissions are clear over all frequencies,
then the most likely cause is from radio frequency
energy getting coupled into your radio's harness
wiring. Double check the connector installation
on the antenna coax at the back of the radio. Also
connector where the coax attaches to the antenna.
An open shield at either end is formula for very
strange behavior.
Do you have access to an SWR meter or antenna
analyzer? You might check the antenna quality at
the transceiver end of the coax as well.
IF transmissions are bad with the dummy load installed
then there is something wrong with the radio.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall penetration (big picture) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
What about the fiberglass cowl about a foot and a half behind the plexi windscreen?
For example an RV-8 had a massive engine failure, the connecting rod blew
a hole in the case. The ensuing in-flight fire was bad enough the pilot jumped
from the airplane with out a parachute. Not to mention the fire licking out
the bottom on the aluminum belly.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X19358&key=1
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=SEA99FA113&rpt=fi
My point is an absolute seal at every firewall penetration is great, but are we
fooling ourselves when the fire may just burn thru the cowl or another part.
Even than will be able to see or breath. The cowl above did show fire damage next
to the firewall.
I think overall most GA planes and experimental are not real fire proof if the
heat intensity is great. Good enough to get on the ground? Depends on how bad
the fire is and how high you are.
Will you be able to see, breath? What other things can we do? Fire/overheat detection
(alarm) and protection (fire extinguishers), PBR- Personal breathing respirator/
smoke hood (bag-N-a-can). If the poor fellow had one of these he might
have been able to land, since he was not really burned before he bailed.
http://www.aeromedix.com/?_siteid=aeromedix&_sessid=c9c96ba4b3233f8f72ed93113968b803&action=cat&catid=smokehood
The worst fire is from Av-fuel or oil followed by an exhaust fire. If the whole
engine crankcase is compromised and case oil is released there's not much you
can do, but fuel lines and oil lines should get the up most attention to protect
the biggest source of fuel to a fire. All I have to say is I hope my parachute
works if my RV catches fire in-flight, because I am out-a-there, firewall
seals or not.
Cheers George
---------------------------------
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: strobe noise in music input |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Dickson <robert@thenews-journal.com>
I finally got more data on this problem. The Garmin 340 audio panel
utilizes a switch to ground to enable a high gain position. When I turn
this on even with nothing plugged in and the strobes not on, I can hear
a faint pulsing (engine running). When I plug the cord in - no ipod -
and turn on the strobes I can hear them pulsing clearly at low power
settings. Adding the ipod changes nothing. Without the cord plugged in
I can't hear the strobes even when they're on and the high gain switch
on.
The cord I'm using is very light weight and thinner than a standard
audio cord. It seems to be acting as some sort of antenna.
Robert Dickson
On Jun 19, 2005, at 9:40 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 06:05 PM 6/19/2005 -0400, you wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Dickson
> <robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
> I've recently added a music input to my Garmin 340 audio panel so I can
> use an ipod. The input is a 1/8" stereo mini plug.
> When I plug the cord into the jack to connect the ipod I can hear the
> strobes pulsing. I don't hear the noise when the cord's not in the jack
> so I am assuming that my wiring from the 340 is not the problem.
> The aeroflash strobe power packs are in the wingtips.
> This noise isn't very loud and isn't too bothersome at cruise power
> settings but I can hear it pretty clearly powered back or taxiing. Of
> course the strobes are turned off pretty quickly after landing so
> that's not too much of an issue.
> I would, however, like to know what's causing this and what might the
> solution be. A different cord perhaps? Any ideas?
Does it do it with the Ipod turned off but still plugged into
the audio panel? Does it do it with just the cord plugged into
the audio panel but with the Ipod disconnected?
Bob. . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall penetration (big picture) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
>I think overall most GA planes and experimental are not real fire proof if
the
>heat intensity is great. Good enough to get on the ground? Depends on how
bad
>the fire is and how high you are.
>Will you be able to see, breath? What other things can we do? Fire/overheat
detection
>(alarm) and protection (fire extinguishers), PBR- Personal breathing
respirator/
>smoke hood (bag-N-a-can). If the poor fellow had one of these he might
>have been able to land, since he was not really burned before he bailed.
>The worst fire is from Av-fuel or oil followed by an exhaust fire. If the
whole
>engine crankcase is compromised and case oil is released there's not much
you
>can do, but fuel lines and oil lines should get the up most attention to
protect
>the biggest source of fuel to a fire. All I have to say is I hope my
parachute
>works if my RV catches fire in-flight, because I am out-a-there, firewall
>seals or not.
George,
I agree completely.
I am still looking at the eight pounds of 0.016" stainless steel and
wondering if it has any place in my Glastar. A pound of 3M Dot paper may be
all that is reasonable. The FAA blowtorch test seems to be from another era
and may have little relevance in a plastic airplanes.
It seems to me that the interest in sealing the firewall holes is excessive
if the cowl is glass-epoxy.
I think technical solutions exist that would make sense, perhaps an
emergency handle that would fire a dense foam fire extinguisher into the
engine compartment. I can't imagine that letting the fire burn until it is
stopped by a firewall makes much sense.
Using your seat-pack parachute will surprise your passengers.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
"The problem with the world is that only the intelligent people want to be
smarter, and only the good people want to improve."
- E. Stobblehouse
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: strobe noise in music input |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Robert -
I was advised to use this feature with the knowledge that it not only will
amplify the music input, but the overall gain of the 340 itself. Thus, it
will amplify almost any noise running around inside the box (Garmin 340).
My guess is that you have one or more inputs to the box that are picking
up very low levels of noise. When you boost the gain of the box, you begin
to hear them. John Stark of Stark Avionics is the source. We have not
installed the feature for this reason. If the device for whatever music or
entertainment we choose is too weak, we'll have to find a way to amplify
just that input.
Hope this helps,
John
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 19:41:04 -0400, Robert Dickson
<robert@thenews-journal.com> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Dickson
> <robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
> I finally got more data on this problem. The Garmin 340 audio panel
> utilizes a switch to ground to enable a high gain position. When I turn
> this on even with nothing plugged in and the strobes not on, I can hear
> a faint pulsing (engine running). When I plug the cord in - no ipod -
> and turn on the strobes I can hear them pulsing clearly at low power
> settings. Adding the ipod changes nothing. Without the cord plugged in
> I can't hear the strobes even when they're on and the high gain switch
> on.
> The cord I'm using is very light weight and thinner than a standard
> audio cord. It seems to be acting as some sort of antenna.
>
> Robert Dickson
>
> On Jun 19, 2005, at 9:40 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 06:05 PM 6/19/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Dickson
>> <robert@thenews-journal.com>
>>
>> I've recently added a music input to my Garmin 340 audio panel so I can
>> use an ipod. The input is a 1/8" stereo mini plug.
>> When I plug the cord into the jack to connect the ipod I can hear the
>> strobes pulsing. I don't hear the noise when the cord's not in the jack
>> so I am assuming that my wiring from the 340 is not the problem.
>> The aeroflash strobe power packs are in the wingtips.
>> This noise isn't very loud and isn't too bothersome at cruise power
>> settings but I can hear it pretty clearly powered back or taxiing. Of
>> course the strobes are turned off pretty quickly after landing so
>> that's not too much of an issue.
>> I would, however, like to know what's causing this and what might the
>> solution be. A different cord perhaps? Any ideas?
>
>
> Does it do it with the Ipod turned off but still plugged into
> the audio panel? Does it do it with just the cord plugged into
> the audio panel but with the Ipod disconnected?
>
> Bob. . .
>
>
--
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: strobe noise in music input |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Dickson <robert@thenews-journal.com>
John, thanks for your reply -
but what's odd about my situation is that even with the high gain
switch on I hear very little noise until I both plug in the ipod cable
and turn on the strobes. Without the cable in the jack I can't hear the
strobes. I can't understand why the cable plugged into the jack allows
the strobes to be heard.
Robert
On Jun 26, 2005, at 8:49 PM, John Schroeder wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder"
<jschroeder@perigee.net>
Robert -
I was advised to use this feature with the knowledge that it not only
will
amplify the music input, but the overall gain of the 340 itself. Thus,
it
will amplify almost any noise running around inside the box (Garmin
340).
My guess is that you have one or more inputs to the box that are picking
up very low levels of noise. When you boost the gain of the box, you
begin
to hear them. John Stark of Stark Avionics is the source. We have not
installed the feature for this reason. If the device for whatever music
or
entertainment we choose is too weak, we'll have to find a way to amplify
just that input.
Hope this helps,
John
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 19:41:04 -0400, Robert Dickson
<robert@thenews-journal.com> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Dickson
> <robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
> I finally got more data on this problem. The Garmin 340 audio panel
> utilizes a switch to ground to enable a high gain position. When I turn
> this on even with nothing plugged in and the strobes not on, I can hear
> a faint pulsing (engine running). When I plug the cord in - no ipod -
> and turn on the strobes I can hear them pulsing clearly at low power
> settings. Adding the ipod changes nothing. Without the cord plugged in
> I can't hear the strobes even when they're on and the high gain switch
> on.
> The cord I'm using is very light weight and thinner than a standard
> audio cord. It seems to be acting as some sort of antenna.
>
> Robert Dickson
>
> On Jun 19, 2005, at 9:40 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 06:05 PM 6/19/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Dickson
>> <robert@thenews-journal.com>
>>
>> I've recently added a music input to my Garmin 340 audio panel so I
>> can
>> use an ipod. The input is a 1/8" stereo mini plug.
>> When I plug the cord into the jack to connect the ipod I can hear the
>> strobes pulsing. I don't hear the noise when the cord's not in the
>> jack
>> so I am assuming that my wiring from the 340 is not the problem.
>> The aeroflash strobe power packs are in the wingtips.
>> This noise isn't very loud and isn't too bothersome at cruise power
>> settings but I can hear it pretty clearly powered back or taxiing. Of
>> course the strobes are turned off pretty quickly after landing so
>> that's not too much of an issue.
>> I would, however, like to know what's causing this and what might the
>> solution be. A different cord perhaps? Any ideas?
>
>
> Does it do it with the Ipod turned off but still plugged into
> the audio panel? Does it do it with just the cord plugged into
> the audio panel but with the Ipod disconnected?
>
> Bob. . .
>
>
--
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: strobe noise in music input |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Robert -
Is the Ipod jack on the panel connected to the shield on the cable leading
to the 340? All of our inputs wired by Stark have only one end of the
shielding grounded and that is on the 340 end.
You might also try another MP3 device on that jack to see if it picks up
the strobe noise with the amp boost on. If it does not, then the Ipod lead
and/or the Ipod itself may be the source. If the Ipod is not connected to
its cable, I'd try another cable or check how that cable is wired.
A couple more shots in the dark.
John
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 21:34:07 -0400, Robert Dickson
<robert@thenews-journal.com> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Dickson
> <robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
> John, thanks for your reply -
> but what's odd about my situation is that even with the high gain
> switch on I hear very little noise until I both plug in the ipod cable
> and turn on the strobes. Without the cable in the jack I can't hear the
> strobes. I can't understand why the cable plugged into the jack allows
> the strobes to be heard.
> Robert
>
> On Jun 26, 2005, at 8:49 PM, John Schroeder wrote:
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder"
> <jschroeder@perigee.net>
>
> Robert -
>
> I was advised to use this feature with the knowledge that it not only
> will
> amplify the music input, but the overall gain of the 340 itself. Thus,
> it
> will amplify almost any noise running around inside the box (Garmin
> 340).
> My guess is that you have one or more inputs to the box that are picking
> up very low levels of noise. When you boost the gain of the box, you
> begin
> to hear them. John Stark of Stark Avionics is the source. We have not
> installed the feature for this reason. If the device for whatever music
> or
> entertainment we choose is too weak, we'll have to find a way to amplify
> just that input.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> John
>
>
> On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 19:41:04 -0400, Robert Dickson
> <robert@thenews-journal.com> wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Dickson
>> <robert@thenews-journal.com>
>>
>> I finally got more data on this problem. The Garmin 340 audio panel
>> utilizes a switch to ground to enable a high gain position. When I turn
>> this on even with nothing plugged in and the strobes not on, I can hear
>> a faint pulsing (engine running). When I plug the cord in - no ipod -
>> and turn on the strobes I can hear them pulsing clearly at low power
>> settings. Adding the ipod changes nothing. Without the cord plugged in
>> I can't hear the strobes even when they're on and the high gain switch
>> on.
>> The cord I'm using is very light weight and thinner than a standard
>> audio cord. It seems to be acting as some sort of antenna.
>>
>> Robert Dickson
>>
>> On Jun 19, 2005, at 9:40 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>>
>> At 06:05 PM 6/19/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Dickson
>>> <robert@thenews-journal.com>
>>>
>>> I've recently added a music input to my Garmin 340 audio panel so I
>>> can
>>> use an ipod. The input is a 1/8" stereo mini plug.
>>> When I plug the cord into the jack to connect the ipod I can hear the
>>> strobes pulsing. I don't hear the noise when the cord's not in the
>>> jack
>>> so I am assuming that my wiring from the 340 is not the problem.
>>> The aeroflash strobe power packs are in the wingtips.
>>> This noise isn't very loud and isn't too bothersome at cruise power
>>> settings but I can hear it pretty clearly powered back or taxiing. Of
>>> course the strobes are turned off pretty quickly after landing so
>>> that's not too much of an issue.
>>> I would, however, like to know what's causing this and what might the
>>> solution be. A different cord perhaps? Any ideas?
>>
>>
>> Does it do it with the Ipod turned off but still plugged into
>> the audio panel? Does it do it with just the cord plugged into
>> the audio panel but with the Ipod disconnected?
>>
>> Bob. . .
>>
>>
>
>
--
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Z-22 relay question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mdharfst@cs.com
Bob wrote"
>>>>Looking over Z-22, I see that I've stubbed my toe. In the article on spike
catcher diodes:
I alluded to the first issue of an AD against the ACS510
genere' of off-l-r-both-start key switches wherein the
FAA took note of EXTRAORDINARY energy dump from modern
light weight replacement starter solenoid/contactors.
...
Seems the coil de-energizing spike was eating up starter
control contacts in the switches .....
Then came along a new characteristic in modern, light-weight
replacement starters. Efforts to reduce starter push
button wear with an add-on starter contactor (a la Z-11
and B&C recommendations), we noted that the back-emf generated
during spin-down of a PM starter would cause a delayed retraction
of the starter's pinon gear when the push button was released.
We STILL didn't want to run full contactor coil current
through the panel control so a heavy-duty (30A) relay
was suggested and described in Z-22. However, making
the relay a "heavy duty" device did NOT alleviate the
need for spike suppression at the contacts. The heavy
duty relay was just as vulnerable to damage from
stored energy as the off-l-r-both-start key switch.
However, while concentrating on the run-on issue, I
overlooked the need for a spike catcher.
I've updated Z-22 and published it in the Page-Per-System
drawings at:
.....
Here's a good example of how the diode bridge rectifier
assembly can be used to good electrical and mechanical
advantage. I show two of the four didoes used to suppress
the spike out of the starter contactor -AND- the
relay coil. Further, the mechanical characteristics of
this part give us good places to bring pairs of wires
into the same terminal as tie points.
You COULD replace the S704 with a HEAVIER duty still
device like a starter contactor, but it's not necessary.
Try the NEW Z-22 and see what it does for you.
<<<<<<<<<
Bob
Well I know now why I was plagued somewhat by that relay from day one. It would
blow 7.5 amp fuses in one or two starts, so I stuck in a 10A fuse and let it
go. I use a key switch to control the circuit, not a start button. I promise
to come over from the dark side soon and install toggle switches and a start
button. I use a 17 Amp Hr Panasonic RG battery. That battery drops to 9.5V during
starting. I figured the low voltage caused a higher current momentarily
which popped the fuse if the engine cranked very long. This spring the 10A fuses
started popping if the battery was not fully charged. Then the relay gave
up. So I ended up sticking in a regular starter contactor from Vans in place
of it this weekend while waiting to hear from you. That solution worked quite
well. Now you raise a question about whether I need these extra diodes with this
normal contactor. Will I be having a future problem without them like the
one I just had? Also
what is the point of using the S704 relay really, other than being a few ounces
lighter? I used it because of the lighter weight and the Z-22 drawing. Am I just
being dense and missing something obvious?
Thanks,
Mike Harfst N9TZ
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