---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/28/05: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:01 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 06/27/05 (Mark Taylor) 2. 12:58 PM - Alternator Belt tension (Richard Reynolds) 3. 01:26 PM - wig wag suitability (Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com) 4. 01:54 PM - Re: wig wag suitability (James H Nelson) 5. 02:21 PM - Re: wig wag suitability (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 6. 03:01 PM - Re: wig wag suitability (LarryRobertHelming) 7. 06:25 PM - SD-8 as a less-than-full load backup (Tim Olson) 8. 08:13 PM - Re: SD-8 as a less-than-full load backup (Bryan Hooks) 9. 08:33 PM - Re: wig wag suitability (rv-9a-online) 10. 08:46 PM - Re: SD-8 as a less-than-full load backup (Tim Olson) 11. 09:06 PM - Decomissioning TIS Sites??? (Mark) 12. 09:17 PM - Re: Decomissioning TIS Sites??? (Mark) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:01:17 AM PST US From: "Mark Taylor" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 06/27/05 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Taylor" Bob, Aart and I have been in discussion about how to do this for some time. I'm interested to see what you come up with since I'm going down a similar road to Aart. However, I will have IFR capability, so I was going for the two alternator/one battery Z-12 set-up. I hope you can help Aart with is dilemma, and in doing so, you might be helping me too! Thanks, Mark. RV7. Finishing. www.4sierratango.com >Time: 08:05:44 AM PST US >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fadec installation, what architecture? > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > >At 10:23 AM 6/27/2005 +0200, you wrote: > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Aart van't Veld" > > > > > >I would really appreciate feedback from you guys on the >wiring/architecture > >of my Fadec system. The basics of my installation and wiring situation >are: > > > >- All electric airplane > > > >- Flying an experimental in Europe. Therefore no IFR/IMC, no night VFR. > > > >- 60A B&C main alternator > > > >- One main battery(Odyssey PC680) > > > >- One small backup battery, comes with the Fadec installation and is > >dedicated to power the backup Fadec #2 bus only (Aerosance states that it >is > >more than enough for one hour of powering the Fadec system. The Fadec >system > >draws 5,5 amps) > > > >- One SD8 backup alternator > > Aart, > > I'm working on a response to this . . . but it's going to take > some time. You raise some good questions for which I don't want > to hip-shoot an answer. > > Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:58:38 PM PST US Email RV From: Richard Reynolds Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Belt tension --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Reynolds In perusing my Lycoming installation drawing for the O-360-A series (Lycoming Drawing no 04C 63086) the other day, I saw the following note: Alternator Belt Tension Requirements: New Belt - mid belt span deflection of .31 (5/16) inches with 14 pounds load Used Belt - mid belt span deflection of .31 (5/16) inches with 10 pounds load OR For a 3/8 inch wide belt: New Belt - 12 ft-lb to slip the belt at the alternator pulley Used Belt - 8 ft-lb to slip the belt at the alternator pulley The torque/slip method seems to be easy to do. Richard Reynolds Norfolk, VA RV-6A flying ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:26:48 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: wig wag suitability From: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com 06/28/2005 04:21:16 PM --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com Greetings Im a list newby working on an RV-7A that I inherited mid-stream from another builder. I am currently trying to get up to speed on electrical systems and planning the panel. Recently purchased and read Aero Electric Connection book cover to cover, and am making my way through a second time to help absorb it all. Great stuff. Anywho, Im not really planning on doing night flight, but would like to be as visible as possible in the daytime, especially near airports. For this purpose, I am thinking I would go ahead and have standard Vans (Whelen?) strobe/position lights in each wingtip, but was also considering installing wingtip landing lights with the wig wag function. Does this make sense for what I want to accomplish? Is the wig wag good for daytime visibility ( at least from the front)? Is it complete overkill with the additional strobe? Will a landing light setup like that shown on the creative air web site (http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=42) with a wig wag function be a good fit for me? Give it to me straight...bluntness works well with me. thanks Erich Weaver ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:54:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wig wag suitability From: James H Nelson --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: James H Nelson Erich, When in a busy day time environment, the strobes are not seen. The wig wag will get the attention of aircraft whereas the strobes will not. Jim Nelson RV9-A St Petersburg Fl. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:21:47 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: wig wag suitability From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" For daytime work my personal experience is strobes are not worth the extra weight/cost. I can always see landing lights in the pattern and if they flash they are surprisingly noticable. Besides which a wig-wag relay is about $30 whereas strobes are much more. FWIW Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: wig wag suitability --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com Greetings Im a list newby working on an RV-7A that I inherited mid-stream from another builder. I am currently trying to get up to speed on electrical systems and planning the panel. Recently purchased and read Aero Electric Connection book cover to cover, and am making my way through a second time to help absorb it all. Great stuff. Anywho, Im not really planning on doing night flight, but would like to be as visible as possible in the daytime, especially near airports. For this purpose, I am thinking I would go ahead and have standard Vans (Whelen?) strobe/position lights in each wingtip, but was also considering installing wingtip landing lights with the wig wag function. Does this make sense for what I want to accomplish? Is the wig wag good for daytime visibility ( at least from the front)? Is it complete overkill with the additional strobe? Will a landing light setup like that shown on the creative air web site (http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=42) with a wig wag function be a good fit for me? Give it to me straight...bluntness works well with me. thanks Erich Weaver ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:01:31 PM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wig wag suitability --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" > The wig wag will get the attention of aircraft whereas the strobes will > not. This maybe be true if you are going right at them and they are looking at you. If you are intersecting at an angle, the strobe has better chance of being seen. Better to have both lights and both ON. I do not use my landing lights normally unless I am inbound for a landing or pattern work. Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up It Flies "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's own money." Alexis de Toqueville ----- Original Message ----- From: "James H Nelson" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wig wag suitability > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: James H Nelson > > Erich, > When in a busy day time environment, the strobes are not seen. > The wig wag will get the attention of aircraft whereas the strobes will > not. > > Jim Nelson > RV9-A > St Petersburg Fl. > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:21 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: AeroElectric-List: SD-8 as a less-than-full load backup --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tim Olson I'm going to make the decision on which alternator and base plan to go with very soon, but have a simple question for those in-the-know. Engine is an IO-540. I'm leaning towards doing the B&C Alternator with OV protection as my main alternator. Looking at using Z-13/8 for my base plan. I plan to add a small 12Ah or less battery into the scheme, for 2 purposes. #1, during engine start, I'll have my EIS turned on, and operating on this separate battery, possibly along with my Chelton that has weather on it from doing my flight planning. #2, I'm using lightspeed ignition, and by keeping it on it's own battery during start, I have no worries about any kickback caused by the high draw of the lightweight starter. One additional benefit is that as long as I separate this battery from the circuit if I ever have a failure, I can keep my Lightspeed ignition running on a separate circuit, even if I drew my main battery down to nothing. I'd go with P-Mags, but there aren't 6-cyl versions out yet. Some day, when they're out, and proven, I'll yank off my mag and lightspeed and put those on to simplify things....maybe. I haven't got all of the normal operating currents figured out for my full-panel, and minimum-draw configuration, but... Let's estimate that my minimal-draw needs run in the 8-12A range, but I'm only using the SD-8 backup alternator. I know this isn't ideal, but I'm under the assumption that this just means that if I require 12A, and I have the SD-8, my battery will begin to discharge, but only at a 4A rate. Is this correct? The way I see it is, I don't *really* need the SD-8, because I have an attitude indicator on it's own battery, and the main battery or that extra battery could power my EFIS and a Nav/Com for enough time to get me on the ground...I'm not interested in staying in the air for 4 hours with a dead main alternator. But, if my assumption about the draw on the SD-8 is true, adding the SD-8 is cheap enough to give just a little more juice so that I can worry less about my load requirements, and throw in my Autopilot+servos, an interior light, or small things like that, without causing a major concern. I'd go with Z-14, but that just seems like overkill for me, and it costs a lot more. Besides that, there isn't really a custom Z-diagram that describes using a small alternate battery for only a couple loads, so modifying Z-13/8 seems the reasonable thing. Comments appreciated, and thanks in advance! PS: I'd buy my alternator right now, but does anyone know if there are OSH specials from B&C that would make me delay until that time? I don't need the stuff now, but would like to just bury the hatchet and commit so I can quit agonizing over all these choices. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:09 PM PST US From: "Bryan Hooks" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: SD-8 as a less-than-full load backup --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bryan Hooks" Tim Olson said "... Besides that, there isn't really a custom Z-diagram that describes using a small alternate battery for only a couple loads, so modifying Z-13/8 seems the reasonable thing." I've been trying to decide how to handle this very issue myself. With a GRT screen on (and EIS for engine monitoring)during start, I believe that AT LEAST the GRT will reset itself due to voltage drop. Now I know we should all require our gadget designers to meet the standards set forth in DO-160 (I think that's the one), and maybe Grand Rapids does - but I still feel the need to have them on a separate battery during engine start if for no other reason than to baby them ($$$$). So, what's the simplest way to add a small secondary battery to the dual alternator single battery schematic without all the fancy ($$$) stuff. I just want to be able to use the secondary battery during start for a couple of key loads and ensure that it is charged by the alternators during flight. Bryan Hooks RV-7A, slowbuild Finish kit came today Knoxville, TN ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:02 PM PST US From: rv-9a-online Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wig wag suitability --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rv-9a-online Folks, a landing light saved my life. I was cruising at 3500 feet eastbound, and I notice a bright light dead ahead. By the time I resolved the wings, I had to take evasive action-- tight right bank, a look out the window at the other pilot.... who didn't see me. The only thing right that he did was fly with his landing light on. For fast approaching traffic, the few seconds of extra warning is a life saver. Fly with you lights on, pulselights, wig-wags, strobes, whatever. I alos bought a Monroy ATD-300 traffic monitor. Great device. Vern Little RV-9A LarryRobertHelming wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" > > > >>The wig wag will get the attention of aircraft whereas the strobes will >>not. >> >> > >This maybe be true if you are going right at them and they are looking at >you. If you are intersecting at an angle, the strobe has better chance of >being seen. Better to have both lights and both ON. I do not use my >landing lights normally unless I am inbound for a landing or pattern work. > >Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up It Flies > >"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers > that it can bribe the public with the public's own money." > >Alexis de Toqueville >----- Original Message ----- >From: "James H Nelson" >To: >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wig wag suitability > > > > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: James H Nelson >> >>Erich, >> When in a busy day time environment, the strobes are not seen. >>The wig wag will get the attention of aircraft whereas the strobes will >>not. >> >>Jim Nelson >>RV9-A >>St Petersburg Fl. >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:41 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SD-8 as a less-than-full load backup --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tim Olson I also wondered if it was practical, since you're not cross-powering anything from that small battery to your main bus if it would be enough just to join the 2 battery circuits with just a switch from the small battery to your main bus that you could turn on after engine start just to keep the small battery charged. Seems simple enough. Just want to hear any down sides. Tim Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage DO NOT ARCHIVE Bryan Hooks wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bryan Hooks" > > Tim Olson said "... Besides that, there isn't really > a custom Z-diagram that describes using a small alternate > battery for only a couple loads, so modifying Z-13/8 seems > the reasonable thing." > > I've been trying to decide how to handle this very issue myself. With a > GRT screen on (and EIS for engine monitoring)during start, I believe > that AT LEAST the GRT will reset itself due to voltage drop. Now I know > we should all require our gadget designers to meet the standards set > forth in DO-160 (I think that's the one), and maybe Grand Rapids does - > but I still feel the need to have them on a separate battery during > engine start if for no other reason than to baby them ($$$$). > > So, what's the simplest way to add a small secondary battery to the dual > alternator single battery schematic without all the fancy ($$$) stuff. > I just want to be able to use the secondary battery during start for a > couple of key loads and ensure that it is charged by the alternators > during flight. > > Bryan Hooks > RV-7A, slowbuild > Finish kit came today > Knoxville, TN > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:04 PM PST US From: "Mark" <2eyedocs@comcast.net> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Decomissioning TIS Sites??? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark" <2eyedocs@comcast.net> It looks lke the powers that be don't think the TIS sites are worth expanding much less keeping. Hope this isn't a sign of things to come :-( http://www.pennavionics.com/TIS_ISSUES.html Mark ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:27 PM PST US From: "Mark" <2eyedocs@comcast.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Decomissioning TIS Sites??? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark" <2eyedocs@comcast.net> Does anyone know the name of THE avionics books for decision making on wiring, alternator choice, etc. Can't seem to find it in the archives. Thanks, Mark